Ok, it's finally coming up for preorder. What do we expect to see, and what do we want?

One thing I think will be interesting is to see if any of the various Xenos and Chaos units have new keywords which might hint at what we'll see in our new codexes. It'll be interesting to see if weapons profiles change for weapons that fit the templates of some of the stuff that got buffed by the recent changes but didn't get changed because they had different names. Will hellflamers and tau flamers go to 12 inch range? Will autocannons and butcher cannons get Ap-2 to match reaper autocannons? Etc. Etc. This could give us a look at what's to come.

Who knows, maybee less drunk intern and more competent intern?

Not Online!!! wrote:
Who knows, maybee less drunk intern and more competent intern?

I'd happily pay for drunk competent intern. Everything is error free but stupid one liners etc edited in.

I'm expecting the usual =>

Codexes not written with FW in mind and, as a result, a couple of utterly broken combos. Most likely for SM / CSM because of the sheer number of entries they get compared to the other factions.

Dudeface wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Who knows, maybee less drunk intern and more competent intern?

I'd happily pay for drunk competent intern. Everything is error free but stupid one liners etc edited in.

Decimator as merc instantly turned into mecha rambo? He tears em apart limb by limb ?






Automatically Appended Next Post:

Selfcontrol wrote:
I'm expecting the usual =>

Codexes not written with FW in mind and, as a result, a couple of utterly broken combos. Most likely for SM / CSM because of the sheer number of entries they get compared to the other factions.

Considering it is fully GW rulesteam this time, that would just exemplify their lack of quality controll and competence.

What I want....
No loss of units/options.
Units costed so that they're usable.

What I expect....
Disappointment.

Eldar Corsairs finally get new rules?

Drunk intern comes up with more fun rules. Competent intern makes everything boring and safe.

Expecting tons of nerfs so no gamer even thinks of using　them. 300% point increases to weak　units etc typical to gw. They want only collectors to buy resin　as those don't spam same so selling more profitable plastic to them goes only so far.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Selfcontrol wrote:
I'm expecting the usual =>

Codexes not written with FW in mind and, as a result, a couple of utterly broken combos. Most likely for SM / CSM because of the sheer number of entries they get compared to the other factions.

If you want to see broken stuff look at gw codexes. Banning those bans not only most but also biggest offenders

I expect to see/want some "unification" of the IG vehicles to make them more in line with the codex stuff. In a sense of for example options for track guards and other vehicle equipment options for the Mars Alpha Leman Russ and the Chimera Chassis.

Also I hope they clear up some things that got really messed up with the latest FAQs like Malcador Annihilators currently being able to doubletap their Twin-Lascannon AND Demolisher via grinding advance (at least that is how I read it), while the Malcador Battletank can doubletap nothing.

I hope they keep as many options as possible, even if they are moved to legends. Completely dropping them would make me personally sad.

Last but not least: I have a vain hope that they find it in their hearts to give Elysians, Corsairs and Renegades and Heretics at least some kind of mini Codex. I don't think they will, but I hope they do.

Considering it is fully GW rulesteam this time, that would just exemplify their lack of quality controll and competence.

I'm very cautious when I hear "it's GW rulesteam". We don't know how their team works. It might be divided into smaller units and if there is bad communication or no communication at all between them, we can still end up with datasheets written without Codexes in mind (or the other way around) or with dated informations and as a result, incredibly stupid combos.

... what do we expect to see?

A lot of "But what happened to...?" questions after it comes out.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

... what do we expect to see?

A lot of "But what happened to...?" questions after it comes out.

well even if you subtract Elysians, R&H and corsair there's still a lot of sheets that need to go.

I'd like to see Corsairs come back as close as possible to their 7th edition incarnation.

What I expect, however:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
A lot of "But what happened to...?" questions after it comes out.

My expectation:
- Only units who are currently sold on forgeworld.co.uk will get rules. That means no models = no faction.

- Only weapons with exactly matching names will get profile updates.

- Most units will be unremarkable in regards to rules / points with one or two outliers that will be used as an argument about "FW is broken, just ban FW" and/or "GW quality bad! No communication!".

Do Forgeworld not sell any Corsair stuff anymore?

Niche interest , but I expect the Tantalus to go down in points, and the Reaper to go up.

My expectation is that the GW rules team is going to obsolete about 1/3 of the forgeworld units overall, make every option a Lord of War so you can only field them in SH detachments, and in all instances where kits come with multiple models that each have a different weapon, that's going to be the mandatory loadout.

Field grot tanks? you now MUST have 1 scorcha 1 big shoota 1 rokkit 1 KMB 1 grotzooka in your unit.

Selfcontrol wrote:

Considering it is fully GW rulesteam this time, that would just exemplify their lack of quality controll and competence.

I'm very cautious when I hear "it's GW rulesteam". We don't know how their team works. It might be divided into smaller units and if there is bad communication or no communication at all between them, we can still end up with datasheets written without Codexes in mind (or the other way around) or with dated informations and as a result, incredibly stupid combos.

Which still is an issue of the gw rulesteam... and quality controll.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 harlokin wrote:
Niche interest , but I expect the Tantalus to go down in points, and the Reaper to go up.

your hope for GMV is misplaced

1) No model, no rules.
2) A 20-page complaints thread on Dakka.

1) a culling of lots of cool and useful units, the reason for which GW will be mum about (money. The reason is $$)

2) units being either:
a) overpowered on release because they account for future codex changes
Or
b) underpowered later because they are using pre-codex stuff (just like now)

If B, then:
3) paying for a book that will be quickly obsolete, either:
a) because they have to re-release the datasheets when the codexes come out
or
b) because they ignore the datasheets when the codexes come out and therefore the units are useless.

- Rules that fit 8ed but have been written by the most junior member of the GW Rules Team, so mostly really cautious and underpowered/overcosted.

- However, a couple of units, due to strange wording or misunderstandings, will end up broken.

- Even though any given Codex contains more broken units that the entire FW Compendium, half of the internet will take this as proof that all FW models and rules are totally broken and using them is tantamount to cheating.

I wonder if GW is going to remove or change the two GK options FW had.

 ArbitorIan wrote:
- Rules that fit 8ed but have been written by the most junior member of the GW Rules Team, so mostly really cautious and underpowered/overcosted.

- However, a couple of units, due to strange wording or misunderstandings, will end up broken.

- Even though any given Codex contains more broken units that the entire FW Compendium, half of the internet will take this as proof that all FW models and rules are totally broken and using them is tantamount to cheating.

Sooo, buissness as usual, just with less cool factions in the game.

Selfcontrol wrote:

Considering it is fully GW rulesteam this time, that would just exemplify their lack of quality controll and competence.

I'm very cautious when I hear "it's GW rulesteam". We don't know how their team works. It might be divided into smaller units and if there is bad communication or no communication at all between them, we can still end up with datasheets written without Codexes in mind (or the other way around) or with dated informations and as a result, incredibly stupid combos.

But isn't that the entire point of having the main studio write the rules for fw units in 40K? If it's written by the same people who write the codexes then they should be taken into account in the rules. That's why I mentioned keywords: I'd bet that, for example, the Astreus will get the keyword that lets it use the repulsor field strategem like the other primaris repulsor tanks. Likewise, any loyalist vehicle with smoke launchers will get the Smoke Screen keyword so that they can use the Smoke Screen strategem. If we see that same keyword on other factions vehicles datasheets then we'll know that those factions will have that strategem as well. At minimum we'll see what's CORE or not.

the_scotsman wrote:


Field grot tanks? you now MUST have 1 scorcha 1 big shoota 1 rokkit 1 KMB 1 grotzooka in your unit.

We are lucky that AoS rules writter haven't implemented that form of weapon options in 40k. They totally killed Karadron Overlords as a faction with that for me.
"Ey theres a single weapon that is OP and everybody is spamming it, what should we do? balance it?"
"No, remove all options and write it so as each unit HAS to be equiped with ONLY what comes in the box, even if it makes no sense and it looks like gak!"

We’ll be taking a closer look at the forces of Krieg later in the week, but it’s not just these stoic warriors that are featured in the book though, there are also datasheets for some of the Space Marines Chapters of Renown – Red Scorpions, Minotaurs, Blood Ravens, Astral Claws, and Carcharodons. This means that you’ll be able to field such legendary warriors as Carab Culln the Risen and Asterion Moloc in your games of Warhammer 40,000.

* If a unit exists but doesn’t have a datasheet in this book, don’t worry! It will be getting a Warhammer Legends datasheet so that you can continue to use it in your games.

Article with details

Wow Eldar Corsairs just scrubbed from existence.

I do not know how many data sheets there were in the collection of books that this compendium is replacing, but the Compendium will have 191. Anyone who owned all the old books want to add up the number of sheets? That will tell us whether or not we're losing anything.

As for what I'd like to see:

- Avenger flyer gets Sororitas Keyword back (easy)
- Inquisition has at least one Land Raider variant native to the faction (easy)
- SoS Knight Commander + Kharon Pattern Acquisitor jump to 40k (longshot)
- the return of the SoB Repressor (longer shot)

 dan2026 wrote:
Wow Eldar Corsairs just scrubbed from existence.

They might be in Legends though. The understanding is that the book covers things that are actually for sale, right now.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Wow Eldar Corsairs just scrubbed from existence.

They might be in Legends though. The understanding is that the book covers things that are actually for sale, right now.

Well I'm glad the stormhammer is in there like it was in the 8th edi-

oh wait no it's not.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Wow Eldar Corsairs just scrubbed from existence.

They might be in Legends though. The understanding is that the book covers things that are actually for sale, right now.

Still hoping that a Ynarri dex gives us Corsair and Exodite units for use in Ynarri armies and that WD prints mini-dexes for pure Corsair and pure Exodite lists.

Also hoping Elysians move to 40k.

 harlokin wrote:
Niche interest , but I expect the Tantalus to go down in points, and the Reaper to go up.

I also expect those vehicles will become <Kabal> only.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Wow Eldar Corsairs just scrubbed from existence.

They might be in Legends though. The understanding is that the book covers things that are actually for sale, right now.

Well I'm glad the stormhammer is in there like it was in the 8th edi-

oh wait no it's not.

You mean the Solar Auxilia Stormhammer doesn't get rules? Wow, I'm shocked!

There's a bunch of Heresy era stuff that doesn't have rules. Especially under the AdMech heading. Which is irritating because we know they started work to make stuff jump from 30 to 40k...hell, we have color plates from Fires of Cyraxus showcasing some of them!

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Wow Eldar Corsairs just scrubbed from existence.

They might be in Legends though. The understanding is that the book covers things that are actually for sale, right now.

Well I'm glad the stormhammer is in there like it was in the 8th edi-

oh wait no it's not.

You mean the Solar Auxilia Stormhammer doesn't get rules? Wow, I'm shocked!

Hey man, it was the Astra Militarum Stormhammer for all of 8th, and I even took 3 to NOVA 2017. But you're right, they moved it on the webstore so I guess that means it can't have a datasheet now.

PenitentJake wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Wow Eldar Corsairs just scrubbed from existence.

They might be in Legends though. The understanding is that the book covers things that are actually for sale, right now.

Still hoping that a Ynarri dex gives us Corsair and Exodite units for use in Ynarri armies and that WD prints mini-dexes for pure Corsair and pure Exodite lists.

I really hope we never see Exodites as anything more than background or possibly Kill Team related items. They're too small of a concept, despite their bond with giant heckin' animals.

Also hoping Elysians move to 40k.

You mean "return". Because Elysians were never a Heresy era product, they just are gone now.

Can anyone confirm the existence of the statement by the GW rules lead, that GW won't be releasing any new Xeno units?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Wow Eldar Corsairs just scrubbed from existence.

They might be in Legends though. The understanding is that the book covers things that are actually for sale, right now.

Well I'm glad the stormhammer is in there like it was in the 8th edi-

oh wait no it's not.

You mean the Solar Auxilia Stormhammer doesn't get rules? Wow, I'm shocked!

Hey man, it was the Astra Militarum Stormhammer for all of 8th, and I even took 3 to NOVA 2017. But you're right, they moved it on the webstore so I guess that means it can't have a datasheet now.

Or they stopped selling it as an "Astra Militarum" item and are keeping it as Heresy only.

 dan2026 wrote:
Eldar Corsairs finally get new rules?

and so are R&H and elysians. just legended---

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Can anyone confirm the existence of the statement by the GW rules lead, that GW won't be releasing any new Xeno units?

No, because there probably has never been one.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Or they stopped selling it as an "Astra Militarum" item and are keeping it as Heresy only.

And they did this because all the people who were joyfully playing it in 8th deserve to have their fun taken away or...?

I never thought you of all people would agree with Astra Militarum unreasonably losing access to a unit for no reason.

Stuff I can see now...

Chinork Warkopta gone

Lamenters chapter master still gone

Inquisition land raider gone

Mechanicum stuff still not in 40k - frustrating given that so much 30k marine stuff has rules...including units that are canonically not supposed to exist anymore like the jetbikes XD

GK Psycannon dread seems gone

Chaos Sonic Dreadnought seems gone

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Or they stopped selling it as an "Astra Militarum" item and are keeping it as Heresy only.

And they did this because all the people who were joyfully playing it in 8th deserve to have their fun taken away or...?

I never thought you of all people would agree with Astra Militarum unreasonably losing access to a unit for no reason.

You don't know for sure that it's gone forever. You just know that it's not in the table of contents there.
There's literally this statement:

* If a unit exists but doesn’t have a datasheet in this book, don’t worry! It will be getting a Warhammer Legends datasheet so that you can continue to use it in your games.

If the Stormhammer isn't covered there...ask them about it.


Also, you chose to selectively edit my post for your complaint. That same year you were getting to field 3 of them at NOVA? That's the year I finally found out I could use a Thanatar in 40k...and then Fires of Cyraxus as a project died and there's been zero movement ever since. So excuse me for not feeling super sympathetic that your tanks that could probably be used as something else with very little effort didn't get a frontpage listing in the Index.

I do love how excited you seem at the prospect of people losing models they like. Weird for someone who was very angry earlier over a unit they never had to begin with.

Anyway, I cannot wait for the Legends datasheets.

Over/under 50% that they're copypastas of the previous rules, 8" flamers, 1 damage Heavy Bolters and everything else?

 Kanluwen wrote:
You don't know for sure that it's gone forever. You just know that it's not in the table of contents there.
There's literally this statement:

* If a unit exists but doesn’t have a datasheet in this book, don’t worry! It will be getting a Warhammer Legends datasheet so that you can continue to use it in your games.

If the Stormhammer isn't covered there...ask them about it.

Why would they put a model currently in-production into legends?

Furthermore, why would they remove it in the first place?

Furthermore, why is this change positive?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I do love how excited you seem at the prospect of people losing models they like. Weird for someone who was very angry earlier over a unit they never had to begin with.

Anyway, I cannot wait for the Legends datasheets.

Over/under 50% that they're copypastas of the previous rules, 8" flamers, 1 damage Heavy Bolters and everything else?

I tend torwards copy paste, considering how "well" the allready existing legends are...

which bodes not well for my R&H

Why did they never put the Secutarii Peltasts or Hoplites into a book, despite being in production and with downloadable rules at the time of printing?

The answer: because they didn't. Same answer applies for your dilemma.

They probably were going to be in Fyres, along with all the other Mechanicum stuff that isn't getting any rules in 9th.

It looks like the Destroyer Tank Hunter is gone to Legends, along with the Stygies and Mars pattern Leman Russ. Thunderers seem to have survived though.

I wonder if "Thunderers" being plural might mean the laser destroyer is now an upgrade to it.

Edit: Leman Russ Annihilators seem to be gone too. That's really disappointing. Hopefully they're just not shown in the index...

One thing I could imagine (but that is just a thought, I have no sources whatsoever) is that they will roll some AM datasheets into their "parent" datasheet when the codex comes. So LR Annihiliator and Conquerer just shift to equipment options of the regular LR (which might even mean Annihilator tank commanders), Destroyer tank hunter into Thunderers etc.
It would also (even if that is more wishful thinking) explain why the Sentinel powerlifter datasheet is gone and did not get points updates for 9th, but the powerlifter (the CC weapon it wields) did. MAYBE it will just plop up on the Sentinel datasheet.

But this thought is a bit countered by the fact that the Machariusses are still separate datasheets, as are the Malcadors.



Edit: and I'm confused and sad that they really removed the Gorgon. In the same year that they brought back the model for sale.

That's not imagining, that's wild and baseless wishlisting!

It's probably just best to assume Legends and move on.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They probably were going to be in Fyres, along with all the other Mechanicum stuff that isn't getting any rules in 9th.

It really is just incredible to me that they don't consider it any kind of lost sales opportunity to have not slapped together some datasheets for those models.

Surely they must sell better than the 400$ imperial knights? Or weird niche stuff like Ork Kill Tanks and Antaes'rao'keres?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Can anyone confirm the existence of the statement by the GW rules lead, that GW won't be releasing any new Xeno units?

Is this meant to be in reference to FW Xeno units or just Xeno units in general?

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Or they stopped selling it as an "Astra Militarum" item and are keeping it as Heresy only.

And they did this because all the people who were joyfully playing it in 8th deserve to have their fun taken away or...?

I never thought you of all people would agree with Astra Militarum unreasonably losing access to a unit for no reason.

But whas it a real choice or a fake one? Why not use it as a normal baneblade?

 Galas wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Or they stopped selling it as an "Astra Militarum" item and are keeping it as Heresy only.

And they did this because all the people who were joyfully playing it in 8th deserve to have their fun taken away or...?

I never thought you of all people would agree with Astra Militarum unreasonably losing access to a unit for no reason.

But whas it a real choice or a fake one? Why not use it as a normal baneblade?

Oh, fake, absolutely, and if my opponents don't mind I absolutely will.

 vipoid wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Can anyone confirm the existence of the statement by the GW rules lead, that GW won't be releasing any new Xeno units?

Is this meant to be in reference to FW Xeno units or just Xeno units in general?

Given we know of, what, at least two upcoming Xenos models, I'd guess he means FW, but clarification would be nice.

Some will be happy to see the Ork Warboss on warbike is still a thing and not in legends.

Semper wrote:
Some will be happy to see the Ork Warboss on warbike is still a thing and not in legends.

it's about the only positive change i can see from that FW book.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
Wow Eldar Corsairs just scrubbed from existence.

They might be in Legends though. The understanding is that the book covers things that are actually for sale, right now.

Well I'm glad the stormhammer is in there like it was in the 8th edi-

oh wait no it's not.

Aw crap.

Also noticed DKoK Grenadiers are gone. Guess they're just Tempestus Scions now. Gorgons and Centaurs look to be disappeared too.

You mean the Solar Auxilia Stormhammer doesn't get rules? Wow, I'm shocked!

You should be shocked because it had 40k 8th ed rules in the Forgeworld Index. *eyeroll*

but we needed the design space and production facilities and lore mentions to sell more primarisleutnants.

RIP Lias and Narvaez

My ideal circumstances:

- R&H, Elysians and Corsairs get updated rules, even if the models are OOP.
- Units are brought to balanced standards, as IMO, it's only a very select number of FW units that give this overall "FW=OP" nonsense.

My expectations:

- Krieg will be unplayable with this bollocks Doctrine of "50% chance of firing a single weapon at BS6+"
- Lot of units will be shafted to Legends despite models still being in production *cries in Stormhammer*
- Errors everywhere.
- Titans will still be unplayable.
- Secutarii will still not have a <FORGE WORLD> keyword despite being the Titan Guard of several Forge Worlds in the AM Codex
- No updates or changes at all after this release as FW switch focus to the urgently-required fourth set of MKIV Rhino Doors.

 Valkyrie wrote:
My ideal circumstances:

- R&H, Elysians and Corsairs get updated rules, even if the models are OOP.
- Units are brought to balanced standards, as IMO, it's only a very select number of FW units that give this overall "FW=OP" nonsense.

My expectations:

- Krieg will be unplayable with this bollocks Doctrine of "50% chance of firing a single weapon at BS6+"
- Lot of units will be shafted to Legends despite models still being in production *cries in Stormhammer*
- Errors everywhere.
- Titans will still be unplayable.
- Secutarii will still not have a <FORGE WORLD> keyword despite being the Titan Guard of several Forge Worlds in the AM Codex
- No updates or changes at all after this release as FW switch focus to the urgently-required fourth set of MKIV Rhino Doors.

Honestly i'd be surprised if they didn't just Copy paste the stuff from the index over into legends just to spite me one last time.

Speaking of Legends, what about the stuff that became Legendary in 8th edition? Will I still be able to field Rough Riders or am I going to have to pigeonhole Death Riders into my armies now?

chaos0xomega wrote:
Speaking of Legends, what about the stuff that became Legendary in 8th edition? Will I still be able to field Rough Riders or am I going to have to pigeonhole Death Riders into my armies now?

no it's legends it will remain as is in there until end of time or gw needeing to cash in on nostalgia

After the FW compendium article they just released I'm not optimistic at all. If the flagship DKOK line got rules that terrible and the gorgon and stormhammer have been made legends like they appear to be, the book won't be worth the paper it's printed on.

Why on earth are they taking models they are currently making and switching them to legends rules only?

So how does everyone think they'll "balance" what units remain? I'm betting all the dreadnoughts are going to WS/BS 3+, and I doubt that the legion super heavys will remain T9, as I think that was gw's "problem" with them.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
After the FW compendium article they just released I'm not optimistic at all. If the flagship DKOK line got rules that terrible and the gorgon and stormhammer have been made legends like they appear to be, the book won't be worth the paper it's printed on.

Why on earth are they taking models they are currently making and switching them to legends rules only?

Spite ?
Because FW delievered a clearly superior rules product at the end of 6th and 7th where mainline GW failed massively?

I don't know frankly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
So how does everyone think they'll "balance" what units remain? I'm betting all the dreadnoughts are going to WS/BS 3+, and I doubt that the legion super heavys will remain T9, as I think that was gw's "problem" with them.

Who knows but as stated when even DKoK got the shaft that badly there is little room for hope beyond slip ups that it turns out in any way shape or form decently for owners of these.

But i am sure GW will be more then happy to sell you a knight or 2

 Oaka wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
Niche interest , but I expect the Tantalus to go down in points, and the Reaper to go up.

I also expect those vehicles will become <Kabal> only.

Good shout, agree 100%. The interactions between those two vehicles and Coven/Cult have always had issues, and it makes no sense having Ravagers be Kabal only (as the shooty subfaction), but Reapers not.

 Dysartes wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Can anyone confirm the existence of the statement by the GW rules lead, that GW won't be releasing any new Xeno units?

Is this meant to be in reference to FW Xeno units or just Xeno units in general?

Given we know of, what, at least two upcoming Xenos models, I'd guess he means FW, but clarification would be nice.

To be entirely honest, there was no clarification. That's why I asked. But I'm guessing with the news, it's FW.

Looking at the Craftworlds list, Wasp assault walker, Phoenix, Vampire Hunter, Vampire raider and all the Corsair units have gone. All of those are, unsurprisingly, not listed on the Forgeworld store anymore. It wasn't that long ago that some Corsair bits and the Wasp were still up for sale so I'm assuming they've all been legended.

Is FW even releasing new 40k models these days?

It is kinda obvious that a book called "Compendium" is not going to have new units.

One unit that might (!) slightly profit from the new DKOK doctrine could be Cyclopses. With this if they don't blow up from being destroyed they still have a 50% chance to detonate. At least that is what I think, since the charge is a ranged weapon that can be detonated in any of its shooting phases.

Also the Malcador Infernus can burn one last time. But both are not that big sellers

Not Online!!! wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Speaking of Legends, what about the stuff that became Legendary in 8th edition? Will I still be able to field Rough Riders or am I going to have to pigeonhole Death Riders into my armies now?

no it's legends it will remain as is in there until end of time or gw needeing to cash in on nostalgia

Right, but are 8e Legends usable in 9e? Those datasheets no longer fully align with some of the changes made in the edition jump, not sure if any of those changes render those datasheets unusable but I imagine there will be compatability issues.

 Tyran wrote:
Is FW even releasing new 40k models these days?

It is kinda obvious that a book called "Compendium" is not going to have new units.

I don't think FW has actually released a new 40k mini in a few years. Everything has been 30k, Titanicus, Aeronautica, Necromunda, etc. focused. The only exception I can think of are the moirax armigers, but even then IIRC those were intended as a 30k release and just received 40k rules (not unlike the Custodes minis).

Well, there go my plans to build a Hellforged Predator. I chalk it up to the model not selling since the design was just so lame, even though the rules are cool. Also, why did they get rid of Samus?

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Well, there go my plans to build a Hellforged Predator. I chalk it up to the model not selling since the design was just so lame, even though the rules are cool. Also, why did they get rid of Samus?

My poor Lord Zhufor got iced as well. I just got a Flamethrower predator a few months ago as well.

Welp, Bad News/Good News time for the DKoK.

Bad News - the Doctrine is probably the most useless faction rules in the game.

Good news - they're not doing duplicate rules for stuff like Infantry Squads where they're always all more expensive and have fewer upgrade and weapon options for no reason than their codex equivalents.

I noticed however that Grenadiers do not have an entry. I'm hoping this just means they get to be Stormtroopers/Scions that can just be taken in DKoK doctrine armies. However, as the model is OOP, I suspect instead they're being moved to Legends, probably with permanent garbage unit restrictions the always had. But I'm hoping not.

Overall? If Grenadiers stay, I'd say a net gain. I'll take a lipstick doctrine over stupidly crippled unit options and inflated points costs. Honestly I didn't expect much more.

looks like all my FW models are making the cut... i wonder if they are going to be any good XD.

Achillies land raider,
Sketatcvh wraith knights
cobra

I think this may be a good sign for R&H fans. Its an army that is begging to exist and will make sales in the chaos crowds and it has been teased heavily with Blackstone Fortress releases. I wouldn't doubt if when the AM book comes out the R&H or whatever new name they give them will be soon after with a bunch of vehicle sprue upgrades ala GSC and a few special packs like commanders, mutant Ogryn, and a generic Infantry Squad kit. Its an army that would be very cheap for them to sell.

 generalchaos34 wrote:
I think this may be a good sign for R&H fans. Its an army that is begging to exist and will make sales in the chaos crowds and it has been teased heavily with Blackstone Fortress releases. I wouldn't doubt if when the AM book comes out the R&H or whatever new name they give them will be soon after with a bunch of vehicle sprue upgrades ala GSC and a few special packs like commanders, mutant Ogryn, and a generic Infantry Squad kit. Its an army that would be very cheap for them to sell.

if anything it will be a bad sign because GW will inevitably split up R&H into Traitor guard, cult + pirates and Dark mech in order to capitalise on the former collectors and sell even more separate rulessets.

Also, compared to the vraksian line the new traitor guard is not really enticing in regards too looks (well mostly the chaos commisar and the ogryn)

Not Online!!! wrote:

 generalchaos34 wrote:
I think this may be a good sign for R&H fans. Its an army that is begging to exist and will make sales in the chaos crowds and it has been teased heavily with Blackstone Fortress releases. I wouldn't doubt if when the AM book comes out the R&H or whatever new name they give them will be soon after with a bunch of vehicle sprue upgrades ala GSC and a few special packs like commanders, mutant Ogryn, and a generic Infantry Squad kit. Its an army that would be very cheap for them to sell.

if anything it will be a bad sign because GW will inevitably split up R&H into Traitor guard, cult + pirates and Dark mech in order to capitalise on the former collectors and sell even more separate rulessets.

Also, compared to the vraksian line the new traitor guard is not really enticing in regards too looks (well mostly the chaos commisar and the ogryn)

R&H is a BIG mix and it makes sense to separate them out. Not saying its a good thing but from the perspective of a NEW player you will need something more focused.

Those models are hard to follow really. They still need to have a mass produced plastic with specific and new aesthetics in mind and maybe when we see the whole line it will make more sense.

This is basically what I expected.

More than what gets rules and what doesn't, just browsing FW's catalogue makes me sad, because so many cool things are gone to be replaced with another Legion-Specific Contemptor Dreadnought.

There are more products under Contemptor Dreadnought than there are under and of the Xenos Factions.

I expect more cut units and more nerfs to render all my FW units even more unplayable than they already were. And still no Taghmata content.

With the death of Alan Bligh the Imperial Armor series is dead. GW has made it clear they want FW to focus on 30k and specialist games. No more 40k.

Now, part of this isn't insidious, it's due to technology improvements. When FW was founded to make big and detailed models it wasn't cost effective to do them in plastic and resin was the only economical option. Fast forward to 2020 and there isn't much GW can't do with plastic. Just look at the new Necrons and Son of Behmat. As such, no need for FW to be doing 40k stuff anymore.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Welp, Bad News/Good News time for the DKoK.

Bad News - the Doctrine is probably the most useless faction rules in the game.

I put forth Word Bearers and Tzeentch Daemons. I'd rather have Krieg than either of those. Fire when you die Exalted Flamers and horror squads that ignore the under-half attrition penalty, sure.

I'm sad Corsairs are dead now.

But I guess they were already dead and this is just filling in the grave.

The only Forge World unit I have, is the dreadnought drop pod, so I hope to see it get the rule to deepstrike battle round 1!

Here's hoping half my entire faction (Custodes) doesn't get hit with the long hard bat of nerf.

4 FW units. 2 used. the used one get removed, we are left with a thunder hawk and a bad land raider. Sad, but thankfuly people here don't use FW, so zero affect on me. Feel bad for those people that bought and painted their GK dreads thinking that one they will be fixed.

FW is no longer a 40k company. They're keeping token support for some existing models, nothing more.

The book looks to be a "let's charge people money to slowly squat their units" exercise, so I'd be very surprised if the rule are any good.

yukishiro1 wrote:
FW is no longer a 40k company. They're keeping token support for some existing models, nothing more.

The book looks to be a "let's charge people money to slowly squat their units" exercise, so I'd be very surprised if the rule are any good.

**updated- just missed the kytan **
That seems to be about the gist of it.

Not only does this look like basically an index 2.0, we lost a whole bunch of units.
On CSM side I'm counting:

- hellforged predator
- vindicator laser destroyer
- Ferrum Infernus
- EC Sonic dreadnought
- Plaguehulk
- zhufor
- Necrosius
- Lord Arkos
- Hellwright
- Hellwright on abeyant

The vindicator they probably simply forgot...again, but the predator is a bit surprsing.
And they didn't both bringing back legacies either. I was looking forward to this but I'm pretty dissapointed so far.

 buddha wrote:
With the death of Alan Bligh the Imperial Armor series is dead. GW has made it clear they want FW to focus on 30k and specialist games. No more 40k.

Now, part of this isn't insidious, it's due to technology improvements. When FW was founded to make big and detailed models it wasn't cost effective to do them in plastic and resin was the only economical option. Fast forward to 2020 and there isn't much GW can't do with plastic. Just look at the new Necrons and Son of Behmat. As such, no need for FW to be doing 40k stuff anymore.

This would be a stronger argument if GW could be bothered to start doing in plastic any of the things FW made. They're happy to make endless waves of Primaris, the occasional giant cow monster for Sigmar, can't we have a tank now and again? Are we doomed to languish with masses of 4e-vintage vehicles forever?

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 buddha wrote:
With the death of Alan Bligh the Imperial Armor series is dead. GW has made it clear they want FW to focus on 30k and specialist games. No more 40k.

Now, part of this isn't insidious, it's due to technology improvements. When FW was founded to make big and detailed models it wasn't cost effective to do them in plastic and resin was the only economical option. Fast forward to 2020 and there isn't much GW can't do with plastic. Just look at the new Necrons and Son of Behmat. As such, no need for FW to be doing 40k stuff anymore.

This would be a stronger argument if GW could be bothered to start doing in plastic any of the things FW made. They're happy to make endless waves of Primaris, the occasional giant cow monster for Sigmar, can't we have a tank now and again? Are we doomed to languish with masses of 4e-vintage vehicles forever?

I wonder about this when I think of all the things GW could of made and hasn't.
With even a 10% reduction in Marine models, we could of had Aspect Warriors, Cadians, IG tanks, new orks, Dark Eldar characters, Corsairs, Renegades, the skies the fething limit.

chimeara wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Well, there go my plans to build a Hellforged Predator. I chalk it up to the model not selling since the design was just so lame, even though the rules are cool. Also, why did they get rid of Samus?

My poor Lord Zhufor got iced as well. I just got a Flamethrower predator a few months ago as well.

I didn't notice that at first, that sucks as well.

 buddha wrote:
With the death of Alan Bligh the Imperial Armor series is dead. GW has made it clear they want FW to focus on 30k and specialist games. No more 40k.

Now, part of this isn't insidious, it's due to technology improvements. When FW was founded to make big and detailed models it wasn't cost effective to do them in plastic and resin was the only economical option. Fast forward to 2020 and there isn't much GW can't do with plastic. Just look at the new Necrons and Son of Behmat. As such, no need for FW to be doing 40k stuff anymore.

I won't lie...I can't say I'll miss the Imperial Armor of days of yore, where books came out and were the only source for the rules necessitating photocopying. The books were fantastic, just wildly inconvenient.

It's not like GW is sitting around doing nothing with the more 'narrative' side of things though. Crusade and the Battlezones that we just saw in WD, IMO, feels a lot like what Bligh liked to accomplish with those books in terms of story and the like.

I just hope some of the classics like Medusa, Avengers, and Thunderbolts (some of my guard favorites) move into the realm of usable. Right now they are either anemic or just too pricey for what they do (although the loss of heavy -1 to hit makes some of the fliers a lot juicier). They don't need to be "good" by a long shot, just usable so I can pull them off the shelf to air drop some death onto my opponents.

Also anyone notice that Salamanders and Sabre Defense platforms are gone? I could care less about Sabres since they were always a rule quagmire but the Salamander makes me sad since the Command variant was actually an interesting force multiplier.

Is there anything currently on sale that didn't make the cut, besides the flip-flopping Gorgon?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Is there anything currently on sale that didn't make the cut, besides the flip-flopping Gorgon?

I noticed the Eldar war walker wasp kit was pulled :(

I was planing on getting some next year.

I'm hoping for 2 Damage Sagittarum weapons.

Can't look at my books atm but too off my head there's a few missing including corsairs but also repressor, lord arkos, zufor, necrosius. Maybe some of the named daemons. Plague hulk. Idk what else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for what I'd expect.. Not much. Mostly weapon changes and unnecessary nerfs.. I bought the last one I'll wait to find the info for free on this go round.

Any word on how expensive Aetaos'rau'keres is? Is he priced at least somewhat reasonably now, or is he still over twice the price of a Castellan?

Also, is An'ggrath still a loser with a d6 damage axe?

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Also, is An'ggrath still a loser with a d6 damage axe?

Depends how much of a copy/paste job this book was.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Any word on how expensive Aetaos'rau'keres is? Is he priced at least somewhat reasonably now, or is he still over twice the price of a Castellan?

Also, is An'ggrath still a loser with a d6 damage axe?

We don't know. We only have the table of contents and few DKoK bits.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Also, is An'ggrath still a loser with a d6 damage axe?

Depends how much of a copy/paste job this book was.

I guess. I'd just hope the melee focused big daemon guy who is twice the price of a knight gallant had a weapon as good as theirs.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
I guess. I'd just hope the melee focused big daemon guy who is twice the price of a knight gallant had a weapon as good as theirs.

Hey now! That almost sounds like logic. You know what GW thinks about "logic" in these here parts.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Welp, Bad News/Good News time for the DKoK.

Bad News - the Doctrine is probably the most useless faction rules in the game.

Good news - they're not doing duplicate rules for stuff like Infantry Squads where they're always all more expensive and have fewer upgrade and weapon options for no reason than their codex equivalents.

I noticed however that Grenadiers do not have an entry. I'm hoping this just means they get to be Stormtroopers/Scions that can just be taken in DKoK doctrine armies. However, as the model is OOP, I suspect instead they're being moved to Legends, probably with permanent garbage unit restrictions the always had. But I'm hoping not.

Overall? If Grenadiers stay, I'd say a net gain. I'll take a lipstick doctrine over stupidly crippled unit options and inflated points costs. Honestly I didn't expect much more.

In a way thats good for Krieg since they'll get the basic toys, but a better rule would've been:
1. No morale for casualties in the shooting phase
2. Shoot on death 5+ at full BS

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Any word on how expensive Aetaos'rau'keres is? Is he priced at least somewhat reasonably now, or is he still over twice the price of a Castellan?

Also, is An'ggrath still a loser with a d6 damage axe?

Most likely he will be!


Allready by now with removal of many models and Lord Zhufor being scrapped... i knew GW taking the wheel would be a VERY bad thing.

Silly question time - did this Zhufor character have a model released by FW?

 Dysartes wrote:
Silly question time - did this Zhufor character have a model released by FW?

YES!



An actually pretty stylish one...

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Silly question time - did this Zhufor character have a model released by FW?

YES!

And he's still on the web store - but TEMPORARILY OUT OF STOCK.

The snarling helmeted version looked great too.

 harlokin wrote:
The snarling helmeted version looked great too.

helmeted he is even better looking... gw don't do propper chaos... even the new CSM for as baroque as they are, are not viscious enough same especially for the terminators...
But he atleast we got for those sets enough garden fences to put around most of our gardens instead of propper baseline equipement... yes i am still salty about that.

I'm also really bummed that the giant spawn and Chaos beast were both squatted. Their strange, chaotic powers and rules would have perfectly fit the theme of my army.

In the trailer for the compendium, updates for the DK are stated as one of the book's highlights. Between these unit deletions and the worse trait, in retrospect, that trailer almost seems like a cruel prank on and a direct insult to Krieg fans.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I'm also really bummed that the giant spawn and Chaos beast were both squatted. Their strange, chaotic powers and rules would have perfectly fit the theme of my army.

In the trailer for the compendium, updates for the DK are stated as one of the book's highlights. Between these unit deletions and the worse trait, in retrospect, that trailer almost seems like a cruel prank on and a direct insult to Krieg fans.

Are you surprised, DKoK are going to get the R&H treatment, aka slow painfull death via rules removal, destruction of separete identity and slowly ooping in order to milk the last few players dry and then finally curb 40k FW completely..

I also have 0 hope that the FW legends list will do any justice to the factions now soon to be in there.

Wow GW really gak the bed here

There's a reason they're pushing it out between codexes with very little prior fanfare, after having delayed it over and over, and it's not because it's a big flagship release they're proud of.

It is because of times like these and people hate forge world.

The majority of these units will not even have a 9th eddition codex. Yet they are going to make rules that will envitably interact with those codex when they come out potentially making them OP...OR they wont and they will likely be quite bad a result.

They need to stop doing this. Make all the rules at once and include them with the armies codex they are intended to be played in...They are in fact...part of the same game I am told.

Hee! The Astartes aren't under the Imperium. Splitters!

Catulle wrote:
Hee! The Astartes aren't under the Imperium. Splitters!

...no different to how they're listed on the GW website, though.

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is because of times like these and people hate forge world.

The majority of these units will not even have a 9th eddition codex. Yet they are going to make rules that will envitably interact with those codex when they come out potentially making them OP...OR they wont and they will likely be quite bad a result.

They need to stop doing this. Make all the rules at once and include them with the armies codex they are intended to be played in...They are in fact...part of the same game I am told.

Which would be people being ill informed as usual asthis is a GW book from the same muppets that can't balance CA2020 or The first codex's of 9th either way blaming FW for rules and book timing they have 0 input too or control over is like blaming Santa for someone crashing their car into your yard on Halloween.

What puzzles me is that there is an entry for nob bikers which, paradoxically, exist already in the ork codex...

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:
What puzzles me is that there is an entry for nob bikers which, paradoxically, exist already in the ork codex...

That could also be an indication they won't be in the 9th edition codex.

Ice_can wrote:

Orkimedez_Atalaya wrote:
What puzzles me is that there is an entry for nob bikers which, paradoxically, exist already in the ork codex...

That could also be an indication they won't be in the 9th edition codex.

It better drop soon then cuz having 2 datasheets for the same unit can be a nightmare at sooo many levels.

I really would love not to buy this book...

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is because of times like these and people hate forge world.

The majority of these units will not even have a 9th eddition codex. Yet they are going to make rules that will envitably interact with those codex when they come out potentially making them OP...OR they wont and they will likely be quite bad a result.

They need to stop doing this. Make all the rules at once and include them with the armies codex they are intended to be played in...They are in fact...part of the same game I am told.

Yeah. That's typical. GW writes book dropping tons of units, people hate FW...umm...what?

You DO realize right this is not written by FW writers but by GW writers? Right? Why you are angry to FW who has had zero input with the book except provide stock art and maybe original rules if GW didn't simply write rules without even checking what unit did before(which could result in previously high rate of low powered shots weapon suddenly being premiere tank busting weapon in category of single powerful shot).

 Argive wrote:
I really would love not to buy this book...

...then don't buy it?

But if you don't buy it, please don't use the Battlescribe BS as a way of using any units from within it you might own.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Argive wrote:
I really would love not to buy this book...

...then don't buy it?

But if you don't buy it, please don't use the Battlescribe BS as a way of using any units from within it you might own.

Is this meant to be sarcastic?

Honestly, I always thought the ethical thing to do was to offer the Imperial Armor as a optional tome for collectors and people who have tons and tons of FW. But just give us the datasheet in the FW box... its a premium product after all and how many people own more then 1-5 units from forgeworld .... Sure some people, but its definitely not the majority of people. I hate buying this entire book for 3 datasheets...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am just saying. I am already buying a premium product, why not charge me just a little bit more and give me a datasheet with the model... They already convinced me into paying a crap ton for it, ill fork out the little bit more .

Just a complete FW newb question, but does the FW book come with any fluff or lore?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Just a complete FW newb question, but does the FW book come with any fluff or lore?

The older, propper ia's did come with more lore then dexes...
The new indices , nope.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Just a complete FW newb question, but does the FW book come with any fluff or lore?

Not the last release of IA or the one before it .... so unlikely... but I guess its always possible.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Just a complete FW newb question, but does the FW book come with any fluff or lore?

Not since the GW rules team took over. Old FW books came with more lore than you could shake a stick at, though. Imperial Armor Volume 2 Second Edition is still my favorite lore source for Imperial Guard tank company organization, colouring, etc.

I expect maybe small little fluff blurbs on the side of the datasheets like in the new marine dex actually... but i wouldn't expect anything extensive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What do people think the big things like the "cobra" D cannon are going to look like ? Also, should we expect "Macro" weapons to return ?

I hope big guns feel a little bit more devastating with the new rules. . . paying 650 pts to have what feels like 50/50 chance of destroying a big vehicle every turn stopped feeling worth it ,,, especially when paying 3CP on top of everything (talking aboot the cobra here).

What do other people think ?

I don't mind Macro as a category, but the double-damage-vs-superheavies felt kinda weird. A turbolaser hit can slag a knight (give or take ion shields) but not a land raider?

I'd far rather have some sort of general area effect - most of them will have blast, I assume, but some ability to hurt multiple close-packed small units would be good.

Ultimately, I'd like to be able to field a daemon Lord or a Scout Titan and put up a decent fight. I don't mind losing on objectives, etc, but the fact that at the moment most armies could bring down or cripple titan in a couple of turns means the biggest and most impressive models FW produces are literally pointless.

Subfactions and stratagems are unlikely (we've seen the index) since big stompy things will ve in superheavy auxiliary detachments but allowing for the fact they WONT get such things should be accounted for in the statline.

 harlokin wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Argive wrote:
I really would love not to buy this book...

...then don't buy it?

But if you don't buy it, please don't use the Battlescribe BS as a way of using any units from within it you might own.

Is this meant to be sarcastic?

Sadly not, Dysartes seems to have a massive hate boner for BS and would rather build his armies on pen and paper i'd assume

 Dysartes wrote:

 Argive wrote:
I really would love not to buy this book...

...then don't buy it?

But if you don't buy it, please don't use the Battlescribe BS as a way of using any units from within it you might own.

Pft...

Yeah. Buy an entire book for a couple data sheets. No.

Go use Battlescribe for everything. GW is offering you a product at highway robbery prices for cost and quality. A product btw, that if the pattern holds will require an FAQ/Errata on release that has a pretty solid chance of invalidating some of the datasheets you would want to use. Why would ANYONE buy this book?

tneva82 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
It is because of times like these and people hate forge world.

The majority of these units will not even have a 9th eddition codex. Yet they are going to make rules that will envitably interact with those codex when they come out potentially making them OP...OR they wont and they will likely be quite bad a result.

They need to stop doing this. Make all the rules at once and include them with the armies codex they are intended to be played in...They are in fact...part of the same game I am told.

Yeah. That's typical. GW writes book dropping tons of units, people hate FW...umm...what?

You DO realize right this is not written by FW writers but by GW writers? Right? Why you are angry to FW who has had zero input with the book except provide stock art and maybe original rules if GW didn't simply write rules without even checking what unit did before(which could result in previously high rate of low powered shots weapon suddenly being premiere tank busting weapon in category of single powerful shot).

I think Xeno meant to say that's why HE hates fw.

locarno24 wrote:ISubfactions and stratagems are unlikely (we've seen the index) since big stompy things will ve in superheavy auxiliary detachments but allowing for the fact they WONT get such things should be accounted for in the statline.

And the price. LOWs are expensive enough, adding 3CP to their cost just feels like their piling on.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 harlokin wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Argive wrote:
I really would love not to buy this book...

...then don't buy it?

But if you don't buy it, please don't use the Battlescribe BS as a way of using any units from within it you might own.

Is this meant to be sarcastic?

Sadly not, Dysartes seems to have a massive hate boner for BS and would rather build his armies on pen and paper i'd assume

Categorising a dislike of piracy - which, if you don't own the source documents, in what using BattleScribe is - as a "hate boner" is somewhat hyperbolic, Vladimir.

I guess it is also a dislike of the attitude of "I'm not willing to pay for this work, but I still want to use the contents" - as helpfully demonstrated by Lance845 in the post after yours - which has infected the wargaming sphere over the last decade or so.

Am I fan of the GW release model when it comes to rules? No, not particularly, despite enjoying sitting down to read a Codex. But if I'm going to use those rules, I'm going to own a legit copy of them - and any EO or TO should be enforcing rules that require an original hardcopy or digital copy (which I guess means the app these days) when attending such things.

 Dysartes wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 harlokin wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Argive wrote:
I really would love not to buy this book...

...then don't buy it?

But if you don't buy it, please don't use the Battlescribe BS as a way of using any units from within it you might own.

Is this meant to be sarcastic?

Sadly not, Dysartes seems to have a massive hate boner for BS and would rather build his armies on pen and paper i'd assume

Categorising a dislike of piracy - which, if you don't own the source documents, in what using BattleScribe is - as a "hate boner" is somewhat hyperbolic, Vladimir.

I guess it is also a dislike of the attitude of "I'm not willing to pay for this work, but I still want to use the contents" - as helpfully demonstrated by Lance845 in the post after yours - which has infected the wargaming sphere over the last decade or so.

Am I fan of the GW release model when it comes to rules? No, not particularly, despite enjoying sitting down to read a Codex. But if I'm going to use those rules, I'm going to own a legit copy of them - and any EO or TO should be enforcing rules that require an original hardcopy or digital copy (which I guess means the app these days) when attending such things.

What is the point of showing up with a physical copy if it's invalidated a week later or a digital copy in an app that doesn't work?

If GW in any way provided a product that was at all useful I would agree with you. But they don't. You pay money for a paperweight.

It wasn't immoral to download music when it was being sold at 20.00 for a cd with 7 songs 6 of which you never heard before and doing it forced the music industry to change and provide easy avenues to access music at fair prices. Paying GW for these crap books is just perpetuating their production of crap books.

Increase of piracy will increase GWs need to move towards a sustainable technological model... just like it did in the music industry, news industry, film industry, television industry and as it did with other games like Warmahordes.

When it is more convenient and less intrusive not to pirate things, people will move to that model.

People would 100% pay for an ap as good as BS if it was provided by GW... this is proven by looking at other industries and other games that have built business models with this in mind.

GW knows how to make money using the print model... but honestly, they are behind the times even for their own indusrty and the more people pirating their work the more obvious becomes for them and thus the more likely they are to move forward and get with the times.

Honestly, I do buy all my books because I am a nerdy guy who loves my collectables, but logistically I do everything through BS.

You need to know what's in other codexes to play intelligently. If anyone were to actually buy all the books, that'd be more than $500 a year just for the rules to the game. It's not a reasonable price, and GW knows it. When you price the rules that high, of course they're going to be pirated rampantly.

They're obviously content with the status quo because they haven't made any real attempt to change it. Their app was a disaster and has been quietly swept under the rug completely; we're now 3 months overdue for the army builder. Until they start getting serious about entering the 21st century they will continue to have their rules pirated at very high rates, and they know that perfectly well. They don't need people to defend their honor on the internet or feel sympathy for them. They're big boys worth billions. A smarter company would just start releasing rules for free, or for a very nominal cost. It's plastic crack that makes their real money.

Ok here is the thing. Ive been drinking the GW koolaid when I started up int he hobby again ... I have bought the xenos Imperial armour and have been using wraithseer and shadow specter units from my army through out 8th ed (I also bought codex, BRB, index xenos, Ca, PA and probably more crap I dont even remember now..). Generally speaking I like books on my shelf but this is just getting stupid now.

The new book has less then half the entries for my army than what the smaller book had as well likely being nealry 3x the price whilst containing bunch of stuff I dont care about. At the least the old index was like £18 where free shipping was 40 so you could throw it on top of something you really wanted..

I only need 10 pages worth of data sheets/rules (realistically I need 3 data sheets for stuff I actually have and will be using). I gave a pass on the new CA. And by god was it a good call as it brought absolutely nothing of value.

So yeah, I really will not be supporting the idea it is okay to charge a lot of money for 10 pages of rules in a book which very likely will be out of date within two weeks due to errors/ Piss poor rules writing. Its madness that anyone would support this. If it was high quality rules with nice art & fluff that was not riddled with errors I would have considered it.

At this stage... nah.. I really not feeling it.

If you don't like piracy, then it is worth noting that video game piracy dropped significantly when Steam made it possible to purchase games conveniently at reasonable prices.

I would happily drop $10 or so for legitimate ownership of rules and datasheets in digital format. I just plonked $9 for an RPG book for a game my gaming group is glancing at sidelong, and may or may not actually play, but I don't feel cheated, because it mostly contains the rules for the game. I will not drop $50 for a clunky physical edition of a handful of rules whose tacked-on full-color fluff and unnecessary model showcase I may or may not care about and whose rules will be so much arsepaper in between two months and two weeks. If GW is going to try and force a choice between paying those exorbitant fees for rules of ephemeral accuracy attached to a torrent of extraneous crap, or having you remain ignorant of the rules for the models you spent years on, then they can go screw themselves on their own Master-Crafted Heavy Primaris Executioner Incendus Catmolestus Bolt Riflecarbigun.

One thing not mentioned on the contents pages is the code for Warhammer 40,000: The App. Yes, you’ll be able to get all of these rules in the palm of your hand.

Also, every codex+supplement now gets these.

And steam's success wasn't solely because one could "purchase games conveniently at reasonable prices". It's that it was basically the only game in town and threw its weight around. I have physical games that required me to use Steam just to install them. And then we had the sales...oh god I shudder to think of how much I spent in those things.

 CEO Kasen wrote:
If you don't like piracy, then it is worth noting that video game piracy dropped significantly when Steam made it possible to purchase games conveniently at reasonable prices...

Not because it provided effective and hard-to-spoof DRM at a low cost to developers?

It's all good, whether or not people converted to steam because of the convivence or because they were gatekeepers to our games, GW is already a gatekeeper... they just aren't doing the convivence thing XD.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 CEO Kasen wrote:
If you don't like piracy, then it is worth noting that video game piracy dropped significantly when Steam made it possible to purchase games conveniently at reasonable prices...

Not because it provided effective and hard-to-spoof DRM at a low cost to developers?

I think it's totally reasonable to say that both of these were factors.

 Dysartes wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 harlokin wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Argive wrote:
I really would love not to buy this book...

...then don't buy it?

But if you don't buy it, please don't use the Battlescribe BS as a way of using any units from within it you might own.

Is this meant to be sarcastic?

Sadly not, Dysartes seems to have a massive hate boner for BS and would rather build his armies on pen and paper i'd assume

Categorising a dislike of piracy - which, if you don't own the source documents, in what using BattleScribe is - as a "hate boner" is somewhat hyperbolic, Vladimir.

I guess it is also a dislike of the attitude of "I'm not willing to pay for this work, but I still want to use the contents" - as helpfully demonstrated by Lance845 in the post after yours - which has infected the wargaming sphere over the last decade or so.

Am I fan of the GW release model when it comes to rules? No, not particularly, despite enjoying sitting down to read a Codex. But if I'm going to use those rules, I'm going to own a legit copy of them - and any EO or TO should be enforcing rules that require an original hardcopy or digital copy (which I guess means the app these days) when attending such things.

Is not ilegal to download this stuff (Or in the case of Spain, the law cannot be applied without violating citizen's rights). It is illegal to sell or provide it.

In a capitalistic society companies are not only expected to do all kind of ""legal"" but inmoral stuff because they are there for the profit but they are also socially justified (GW themselves outsource production to china for many kits like scenery, and we all know in what conditions those workers are) like McDonalds making the math out to reach the conclusion that is more profitable to pay compensations for people burn out by their extremely hot coffe that saves then a ton of money because coffe at that temperature last much longer, but then, we as society have been educated to, as costumers, with a comparatively microscopic money budget in relation to any kind of company, behave in the most moral and legalistic ways always in our detriment.

Yeah, no. In a capitalistic society is completely moral to make the most out of your money. Legal grey areas are the base of multinationals. Don't be a fool, just play by their same rules, you are not stealing anything from the small shop of your town that barely makes ends meet.

And I know Dakkamods will come and blablabla we can't condone piracy. But I'm sorry, I'm just tired of fething moralistic nobodies coming down on normal people and then turning a blind eye on companies or worse, making the hypocrite claim that "of course what they do is bad but...!" and that but is followed by an implied "Thats what they are gonna do anyway, so we need to just shut the feth up"

Yeah the rhetoric here won't help fix the ghastly rules we been getting for years now because of that blind as hell support.

Using BattleScribe without owning all the books is piracy?

That's certainly a broad interpretation...

Some of the things being said make me want to ask. Besides their products being occasionally meh to worse than it is marketed as (usually the rules supporting the models) has GW ever been wrapped up in any sort of controversies I've not heard of. Like using slave labour, mistreating staff or customers, making comments that aren't acceptable. We hear about different large scale companies doing all sorts of dogey stuff. If we're talking about reasons to not support GW besides not liking the exact nature of their product or the speed at which their products are made redundant.

Planned obsolesce is generally considered unethical so there's one for sure.

cody.d. wrote:

Planned obsolesce is generally considered unethical so there's one for sure.

Yeah i can see that as an argument as thats their "business models"

cody.d. wrote:
Some of the things being said make me want to ask. Besides their products being occasionally meh to worse than it is marketed as (usually the rules supporting the models) has GW ever been wrapped up in any sort of controversies I've not heard of. Like using slave labour, mistreating staff or customers, making comments that aren't acceptable. We hear about different large scale companies doing all sorts of dogey stuff. If we're talking about reasons to not support GW besides not liking the exact nature of their product or the speed at which their products are made redundant.

Planned obsolesce is generally considered unethical so there's one for sure.

The Chapter House debacle is partly why we have garbage rules writing and the removal of a bunch of rules for even basic wargear. Oh and as bullies some of us did not forget about Spots The Space Marine.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Oh and as bullies some of us did not forget about Spots The Space Marine.

 Argive wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Oh and as bullies some of us did not forget about Spots The Space Marine.

The what now ?

A novelist wrote a book that used "Space Marine" in the title, GW complained and got it pulled from Amazon. Some commentators questioned whether GW had any right to trademark "Space Marine" (you'll notice they've started listing things as "Adeptus Astartes" since) and they backed off.

Ah okay, that came up when I searched and it was so unrelated I assumed it was a meme of some variety you were referring to.

But yeah I'll agree with you there. Being over protective of one's IP, to an extreme level, is something some companies do that make them seem super freaken douchey. Like when gaming companies copyright strike lets players and such.

cody.d. wrote:
Some of the things being said make me want to ask. Besides their products being occasionally meh to worse than it is marketed as (usually the rules supporting the models) has GW ever been wrapped up in any sort of controversies I've not heard of. Like using slave labour, mistreating staff or customers, making comments that aren't acceptable. We hear about different large scale companies doing all sorts of dogey stuff. If we're talking about reasons to not support GW besides not liking the exact nature of their product or the speed at which their products are made redundant.

Planned obsolesce is generally considered unethical so there's one for sure.

You have the FW head directive making racists and sexists comments on Open Days so you have one there. Outsourcing labour to China is another based in how you see the morality of that act.

But my dissertion wasn't around that direction. I was just pointing out the hipocrisy of the standards when they are applied to an individual or a company.

 Galas wrote:

You have the FW head directive making racists and sexists comments on Open Days so you have one there.

Apologies for derailing further but what happened there??

 Galas wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
Some of the things being said make me want to ask. Besides their products being occasionally meh to worse than it is marketed as (usually the rules supporting the models) has GW ever been wrapped up in any sort of controversies I've not heard of. Like using slave labour, mistreating staff or customers, making comments that aren't acceptable. We hear about different large scale companies doing all sorts of dogey stuff. If we're talking about reasons to not support GW besides not liking the exact nature of their product or the speed at which their products are made redundant.

Planned obsolesce is generally considered unethical so there's one for sure.

You have the FW head directive making racists and sexists comments on Open Days so you have one there. Outsourcing labour to China is another based in how you see the morality of that act.

But my dissertion wasn't around that direction. I was just pointing out the hipocrisy of the standards when they are applied to an individual or a company.

And GWs labour practices are questionable at best,,, especially when it comes to their sales force...

Anyhow,,, this is a topic for a different thread, lets keep on track here.

I wonder how completive the points cost will look this time round ?
I want to be able to field a sketatch wraithknight without needing to pay 3cp and half my points whilst maybe making back half those resources.

cody.d. wrote:
Some of the things being said make me want to ask. Besides their products being occasionally meh to worse than it is marketed as (usually the rules supporting the models) has GW ever been wrapped up in any sort of controversies I've not heard of. Like using slave labour, mistreating staff or customers, making comments that aren't acceptable. We hear about different large scale companies doing all sorts of dogey stuff. If we're talking about reasons to not support GW besides not liking the exact nature of their product or the speed at which their products are made redundant.

Actually a lot of what GW does would be considered insane by your typical greedy capitalist today, namely keeping the production of everything but terrain and some stuff from specialist games in UK, as well as having most of their design and creative work done by salaried employees instead of minimum wage freelancers and outsourced slave labour. This has some downsides (namely, keeping incompetent employees that were promoted above their skill level just because they were with company for a long time instead of poaching someone better) but generally, as far as gaming companies go, it's hard to find better. We can argue GW prices all day but they are significantly better than UK norm there (though this says a lot of how bad UK norm is making merely adequate GW practices shining in comparison...).

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Chapter House debacle is partly why we have garbage rules writing and the removal of a bunch of rules for even basic wargear.

No, it's fault of brainless 4chan grade imbeciles who screeched one competent rule writer (who was giving armies the stuff they needed, not what the models had, and telling people to convert their own cool models) out of GW just because the whiners didn't like two lines of fluff he wrote. Alas.

generally, as far as gaming companies go, it's hard to find better.

LOL

Not that hard XD

PP, FF, Stonemaier, leder, rio grande, roxly,,,, I can go on,,, but that's just off the top of my head lol.

Don't PP manufacture in China?

 harlokin wrote:
Don't PP manufacture in China?

Nope, they have a factory/distro center in the USA and one in the UK.

Also, even if they did manufacture in china, the amount of other shady practices from GW out weighs all of those companies.

I am not saying the other companies are "good" or "ethical"
Just better then GW.

Dai wrote:

 Galas wrote:

You have the FW head directive making racists and sexists comments on Open Days so you have one there.

Apologies for derailing further but what happened there??

https://www.goonhammer.com/echoing-calls-for-justice-in-our-community/


Now, I'll add that personally I have never bought a recast. And in my group they buy a TON, but all the Forgeworld and GW models I own are legit.

Why? Because I won't have someone working in gods now what conditions, with toxic products, to deliver me a counterfeit product and someone else making a profit. When I pirate some digital product the only one thats involved is myself, and the ony that profits is myself.

But even then I have never, and would never, tell anything to anybody for using their money to do what they want (between reasonable standards that will vary depending in each person. I have my own).

EDIT: I have to say I find GW practices as Irbis says really reasonable for what most multinational companies do. So I believe they are far from the worst, even if I strongly disagree with their prices and many practices they do with that. So I don't pirate their rules for a personal vendetta agaisnt them.

I really do think the widespread recasting is a big reason GW is trying to wind down FW for 40k and AOS. People say you can recast plastic too, and it's not totally wrong...but it's a lot harder.

 Irbis wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Chapter House debacle is partly why we have garbage rules writing and the removal of a bunch of rules for even basic wargear.

No, it's fault of brainless 4chan grade imbeciles who screeched one competent rule writer (who was giving armies the stuff they needed, not what the models had, and telling people to convert their own cool models) out of GW just because the whiners didn't like two lines of fluff he wrote. Alas.

Hmm... what's more likely for GW's complete shift in rules and miniature design ethos:

1. A court-case where they were taken to task over IP and copyright that, as it turns out, was mostly imagined. A case where they tried to claim that everything they do is original and not influenced by outside sources at all, and where they claimed that things such as arrows, Roman numerals and grenade launchers were their own creation.
2. 4chan.

I'm leaning towards the sec... no... first one. Probably the first one.

"A case where they tried to claim that everything they do is original and not influenced by outside sources at all,"

Wow, I'd have loved to been that opposing counsel. So easy.

SecondTime wrote:
"A case where they tried to claim that everything they do is original and not influenced by outside sources at all,"

Wow, I'd have loved to been that opposing counsel. So easy.

those new Necron walker thingies in the indominus box really remind me of something.... can't put my finger on it.. ohjh well surely not war of the worlds walker

Return of the Death Korps of Krieg

The first thing worth noting is that the Death Korps gain access to the full Astra Militarum arsenal from the codex. Now, the tanks, infantry, and auxiliaries available to other Regiments can also be used in this army – those Ogryns already come with gas masks ready to go!

The Death Korps are a particularly renowned regiment of course, so they also gain access to a bunch of units that no other regiment has. There are five updated datasheets that are bespoke to the Krieg sub-faction, from the Death Korps Marshal to the iconic Combat Engineer Squads who exemplify their regiment’s mastery of siegecraft.

Several other Death Korps of Krieg units that are no longer in production will be getting Warhammer Legends rules in November. This means that they can still be used in matched, narrative and open play games for those players who own the models and want to continue using them, though they won’t be considered a current part of the game for the purposes of official competitive events.

Death Korps Marshall Karis Venner
Death Korps Grenadier Squad
Quartermaster Cadre Squad
Death Rider Commissar
Storm Chimera

Alongside these, there will also be Warhammer Legends rules on the way for dozens of other classic Warhammer 40,000 units that are not currently on sale. These will include rare vehicles types, unusual Dreadnought patterns, obscure xenos contraptions and other classic Forge World units, so players can continue to use their full collection in their games.

Hooray for Legends.

Can't wait to see the Repressor rules.

Goodbye Carcass rounds, we knew thee well.

If this is the best thing they can think of to promote the Compendium then it doesn't bode well for the other units in it. If they're bragging about moving so many of DKoK's iconic units to legends, what does that say about what they aren't bragging about? Don't they have anything to entice players of other factions into buying it?

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
If this is the best thing they can think of to promote the Compendium then it doesn't bode well for the other units in it. If they're bragging about moving so many of DKoK's iconic units to legends, what does that say about what they aren't bragging about? Don't they have anything to entice players of other factions into buying it?

it's basically taking a huge dump upon half the DKoK players which allready got 1 list type and playstyle of them destoryed with the removal of the assault list ...

And then getting replaced by ogryns,.. of all things... yeah i am sure all those DKoK players are happy that they now have Ogryns instead of their supposed cloned shock troop..

Ah, so the the Grenadiers are going to Legends, and my DKoK Assault Brigade will no longer be legal for events (constituting the bulk of my opportunity for play in the last few years).

Games Workshop is oddly insistent about not wanting any portion of my income anymore.

It's pretty telling when your *advertising* for the new book is "look at everything we took away!"

Book is up for preorder. $65 + shipping. Description claims 222 datasheets vs 189 in the preview article. Somebody's counting wrong. Wonder if we'll see any reviews, and when?

I suspect that GW have been so quiet about the actual rules in the book for either of the two following reasons.

This book has actually been writen and tested with the 9th edition codex's and the rules either won't work untill your factions codex is released.
Also the book will potentially give a huge insite into mechanics contained the new codex's highlighting that they have all clearly been written and play tested and the shocking imbalance of 9th is purely to drag out the release dates.

The book was writen for 8 and is little more than a reprint of the Index's with at best the FAQ/Erratta changed incorporated, which will be overcosted, and be incompatible with the 8th edition codex's.

Most likely the second one, but hopefully not.

$65 for a book that takes away dozens of datasheets. LOL, only GW could try to get away with that...

I just hope the Marine characters aren't ruined. I can already find a couple of uses for the Asterion standin but between Legends on a bunch of them and knowing the treatment GW gives I'm very much worried about Tyberos.

Also does Chapters of reknown imply rules for the FW Chapters?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Chapter House debacle is partly why we have garbage rules writing and the removal of a bunch of rules for even basic wargear.

No, it's fault of brainless 4chan grade imbeciles who screeched one competent rule writer (who was giving armies the stuff they needed, not what the models had, and telling people to convert their own cool models) out of GW just because the whiners didn't like two lines of fluff he wrote. Alas.

Hmm... what's more likely for GW's complete shift in rules and miniature design ethos:

1. A court-case where they were taken to task over IP and copyright that, as it turns out, was mostly imagined. A case where they tried to claim that everything they do is original and not influenced by outside sources at all, and where they claimed that things such as arrows, Roman numerals and grenade launchers were their own creation.

So they didn't just lose the case, they were completely laughed out of court?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

yukishiro1 wrote:
$65 for a book that takes away dozens of datasheets. LOL, only GW could try to get away with that...

Well they did successfully just sell most of you fools numerous PA volumes ....

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Also does Chapters of reknown imply rules for the FW Chapters?

I'm pretty sure the first preview mentioned rules for four or five Chapters - which was duly whined about on here - as well as Krieg getting "support."

As to what that actually ends up translating to? That's currently unclear.

It says there are suggestions for which successor Chapter tactics to choose in the book to use with the FW chapters, so no bespoke rules.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvv14xVrYoM

Its up on youtube.

Xiphon got changed. It has one more wound and the missles went up to str 7 but it lost the +1 to hit models with fly.

Saggitarum guards bolter profile went to damage 2.

Aquillons fist went to flat 2 damage, and the claw got the +1 attack treatment. No extra wound though. They also got a points drop on the flamers and their base cost.

Flamers all went up to 12".

Fist telemon got buffed. 12 range on its plasma flamers and +1 attack per fist. This thing now can get 7 attacks and has the -1damage permanently on. Its also got a points drop for everything cept the storm cannons.

Bombs on the ares got changed to "Pick a point and all units take D3 mortal wounds on a 4+ (-1 to the roll for vehicles and characters).

pallas droped a few points.

Its looking good for custodes