Some kind person in the Loot Group shared this image of one of the forthcoming collectors coins, which is apparently on eBay for a daft amount of money.
Given these are themed to a monthly release (Hedonites being the next one), seems certain Orks are on the waaaagh soon.
New Orks have been teased (along with AdMech), and we've seen the new Dark Eldar & Sisters models. The big question now is what order will they come out in.
(It’s also been suggested that the coin was meant to be released alongside Gorzag Gitstompa, but the schedule was changed.)
However, coins don't equal "big" releases. Hedonites are the first coins that I can think of that got a big release. Previous coins were Daughters of Khaine (who got one model) and Plague Marines (who got some re releases, a new model, and terrain.) For all we know, the coin could just be for the Ork character, who maybe just come out in a boxset, like the palantine vs lelith. But fingers crossed Ork month will be bigger than orktober
GaroRobe wrote: Rumor engines do hint at some new ork units.
However, coins don't equal "big" releases. Hedonites are the first coins that I can think of that got a big release. Previous coins were Daughters of Khaine (who got one model) and Plague Marines (who got some re releases, a new model, and terrain.) For all we know, the coin could just be for the Ork character, who maybe just come out in a boxset, like the palantine vs lelith. But fingers crossed Ork month will be bigger than orktober
DoK got also broken realm book with new battle tome over the course.
And bigger than 6 or 7 kits, codex and discount box? Unlikely.
GaroRobe wrote: Rumor engines do hint at some new ork units.
However, coins don't equal "big" releases. Hedonites are the first coins that I can think of that got a big release. Previous coins were Daughters of Khaine (who got one model) and Plague Marines (who got some re releases, a new model, and terrain.) For all we know, the coin could just be for the Ork character, who maybe just come out in a boxset, like the palantine vs lelith. But fingers crossed Ork month will be bigger than orktober
DoK got also broken realm book with new battle tome over the course.
And bigger than 6 or 7 kits, codex and discount box? Unlikely.
I don't get why the DoK didn't get their endless spell alongside the Broken Realm book, instead of with the upcoming Teclis Broken Realm book. Also, isn't the battletome coming out then too? Weird
We've had model glimpses hanging around for months now.
The only real question is the order of Ad Mech, Orks and probably Sisters (for Sisters, I'm not sure if they'll get another new codex or just the box set and maybe a 'campaign book' which will have the rules for the Lt and the Stilt-suits).
Though given that its DA and then DE, an Imperial release will most likely come before the Ork release.
GaroRobe wrote: Rumor engines do hint at some new ork units.
However, coins don't equal "big" releases. Hedonites are the first coins that I can think of that got a big release. Previous coins were Daughters of Khaine (who got one model) and Plague Marines (who got some re releases, a new model, and terrain.) For all we know, the coin could just be for the Ork character, who maybe just come out in a boxset, like the palantine vs lelith. But fingers crossed Ork month will be bigger than orktober
DoK got also broken realm book with new battle tome over the course.
And bigger than 6 or 7 kits, codex and discount box? Unlikely.
I don't get why the DoK didn't get their endless spell alongside the Broken Realm book, instead of with the upcoming Teclis Broken Realm book. Also, isn't the battletome coming out then too? Weird
Guess gw decided new battletome is better place for miniature release than broken realm. Dok battletome coming in like march or even february
GaroRobe wrote: Rumor engines do hint at some new ork units.
However, coins don't equal "big" releases. Hedonites are the first coins that I can think of that got a big release. Previous coins were Daughters of Khaine (who got one model) and Plague Marines (who got some re releases, a new model, and terrain.) For all we know, the coin could just be for the Ork character, who maybe just come out in a boxset, like the palantine vs lelith. But fingers crossed Ork month will be bigger than orktober
DoK got also broken realm book with new battle tome over the course.
And bigger than 6 or 7 kits, codex and discount box? Unlikely.
I don't get why the DoK didn't get their endless spell alongside the Broken Realm book, instead of with the upcoming Teclis Broken Realm book. Also, isn't the battletome coming out then too? Weird
Guess gw decided new battletome is better place for miniature release than broken realm. Dok battletome coming in like march or even february
February is the next battletome release.
March unknown if there is one as they specifically said Jan, Feb, March fro 40k, but only listed Feb for AoS..
Makes sense with the model preview video shown ages back, so we can expect with reasonable surety Sisters/Mechanicus/Orks after the Dark Eldar. Hopefully Chaos (cmon Noise Marines) follow shortly afterwards.
I'd love to see a strong Ork codex, absolutely love playing against them but nobody in my area plays the gits.
No. They would have hinted at that before now. Orks are looking like new codex and cards, 1+ kits (tankbustas almost definately, possibly kommandos, slight chance of deffkoptas) and 1+ characters (squig cloak dude, could use a plastic weirdboy)
I'm wondering how coins will work on my local GW.
It closed before the DG one was available (Including the free model) and won't be open again until March at earliest.
Wonder if one spend you get to choose a coin? Or one spend you get both? I know I won't be spending enough in one month for more than one coin
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: they've seemed to suggest all 'held back' coins will be available, and you'd get to choose which you got for every £60 spend,
but I wouldn't be surprised if each manager interprets things slightly differently
I’ve bagged five so far. Any over what I need for my own collection are passed on via the Loot Group. And I’ve been able to request specific ones.
Theophony wrote: Could it be the Re-release of GorkaMorka instead of a Codex?
I think the 'Speed Freaks' game box and the slew of buggies put the nail in that. A new Gorkamorka would be a very different game, rather than a small mob with a few vehicles to race around on. It'd be about the best gun buggies with the best guns rather than the ork gang members.
I'll still never understand why they stopped producing the mek models that came out in 4th. It's like they had the idea/model in plastic ready to replace it but then waited a couple years. (or they're trying to push the megamek)
cody.d. wrote: I'll still never understand why they stopped producing the mek models that came out in 4th. It's like they had the idea/model in plastic ready to replace it but then waited a couple years. (or they're trying to push the megamek)
Likely megamek though the other option isn't impossible. Eldar jetbikes were done and ready decade before release for example
Doohicky wrote: I'm wondering how coins will work on my local GW.
It closed before the DG one was available (Including the free model) and won't be open again until March at earliest.
Wonder if one spend you get to choose a coin? Or one spend you get both? I know I won't be spending enough in one month for more than one coin
Why did yours close before the rest?
DG became available on the first Sat of December.
For me, there was the choice between what was still there, so the prior coin/free models and current. .
The article on community for February’s coin confirms that as before you can choose it once the store re opens.
I do wonder if a £120 purchase would bag two, or if it would have to be two £60+ separate ones.
I'm curious if SoB is going to come before or after Ad Mech. We've already seen the leaked Ad Mech reboxings of a few units, and know they are getting at least a new hero model.
The sisters Boxset makes more sense if it's coming, but at the same time they may be getting a slightly bigger release with the Warsuit for later?
That one on the right looks like a gyro stabilised monowheel from 2nd ed (wargear card). YOu can see what look like pants at the top of the forks. the monowheel replaced an ork's legs so he could go faster.
I just hope they drift a little bit back towards the classic version of the Nelson Ork rather than the modern version. There's something really offputting about the heads for me ever since the Flash Gitz, and the worst thing is it's not even something big and obvious, just slight changes to all aspects that together makes it look...wonky.
Sasori wrote: I'm curious if SoB is going to come before or after Ad Mech. We've already seen the leaked Ad Mech reboxings of a few units, and know they are getting at least a new hero model.
The sisters Boxset makes more sense if it's coming, but at the same time they may be getting a slightly bigger release with the Warsuit for later?
Admech are included in Warzone Charadon with Death Guard and Drukhari. Sisters aren't. .
Apart from the round notches, isnt't it really quite similar to the Deffkilla Wartrike boss' claw? I can't think of any other faction that has these kind of weapons, either, maybe a new GSC heavy assault critter or something Necromunda, but ...
Apart from the round notches, isnt't it really quite similar to the Deffkilla Wartrike boss' claw? I can't think of any other faction that has these kind of weapons, either, maybe a new GSC heavy assault critter or something Necromunda, but ...
Spoiler:
And and Orks don't get that type of perfectly round, symmetrical and nicely made detail on their weaponry
Except when they do, like on the side of the gun in the picture. Two symmetrical rectangles and a perfectly round detail between the 'tails' of the rectangles.
Voss wrote: Except when they do, like on the side of the gun in the picture. Two symmetrical rectangles and a perfectly round detail between the 'tails' of the rectangles.
;/
No you have to ignore all the times they do, as that doesn’t help the argument.
Yodhrin wrote: I just hope they drift a little bit back towards the classic version of the Nelson Ork rather than the modern version. There's something really offputting about the heads for me ever since the Flash Gitz, and the worst thing is it's not even something big and obvious, just slight changes to all aspects that together makes it look...wonky.
It's the proportions on the skulls. The classic Brian Nelson sculpts had very heavy, square lower jaws with a serious underbite, small but pointed noses, and the top of the skull was very flat. The teeth IMO were more "realistic" too, as far as teeth in the face of a giant killer fungus can be anyway. They often follow actual dentistry in that the lower canines were big tusks with incisors in between, where newer sculpts are often just a semi-circle of "pointed monster fangs", if that makes sense. The commemorative ork they just released - Gitstompa? - actually looks more like the classic Nelson sculpts(maybe he even sculpted that one?).
...yes I play orks and I've spent a lot of time thinking about orkish bone structure, why do you ask?
Yodhrin wrote: I just hope they drift a little bit back towards the classic version of the Nelson Ork rather than the modern version. There's something really offputting about the heads for me ever since the Flash Gitz, and the worst thing is it's not even something big and obvious, just slight changes to all aspects that together makes it look...wonky.
It's the proportions on the skulls. The classic Brian Nelson sculpts had very heavy, square lower jaws with a serious underbite, small but pointed noses, and the top of the skull was very flat. The teeth IMO were more "realistic" too, as far as teeth in the face of a giant killer fungus can be anyway. They often follow actual dentistry in that the lower canines were big tusks with incisors in between, where newer sculpts are often just a semi-circle of "pointed monster fangs", if that makes sense. The commemorative ork they just released - Gitstompa? - actually looks more like the classic Nelson sculpts(maybe he even sculpted that one?).
...yes I play orks and I've spent a lot of time thinking about orkish bone structure, why do you ask?
I'm hoping they do away with the round head and pig nose on the newer orks. I like the old heads as they are. They could use a couple of new heads though.
Doohicky wrote: I'm wondering how coins will work on my local GW.
It closed before the DG one was available (Including the free model) and won't be open again until March at earliest.
Wonder if one spend you get to choose a coin? Or one spend you get both? I know I won't be spending enough in one month for more than one coin
Why did yours close before the rest?
DG became available on the first Sat of December.
For me, there was the choice between what was still there, so the prior coin/free models and current.
Scotland locked down in December before England; the day before the coins became available, IIRC. They opened again the week before Christmas, which is when I got mine.
Ah ok I see.
I definitely want another coin or two, depending what comes.
Ork one is pretty good.
Side question, can I spend vouchers purchased in store (the paper ones) in the gw webstore?
I’m hoping there won’t be a limit of one free model once it all reopens.
Obviously one out of Feb two choices, but I think we will be shut till March, so a Jan, Feb & March mini would be nice.
I quite enjoyed building up my witch elf model, and my Death Guard needed one more blight launcher so that was good.
It’ll be nice to paint up some random figures that I’m not ‘army invested’ with.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I could see Kommando Nobz getting the Snagga klaw instead of power klaw option, actually.
That's a fairly good point. It would be the less noisy option. I always assumed a powerklaw in any state of function would make a lot of metallic screeching sounds. And a sorta punch dagger is usually associated with the stealthy assassin types.
MajorWesJanson wrote: I could see Kommando Nobz getting the Snagga klaw instead of power klaw option, actually.
That's a fairly good point. It would be the less noisy option. I always assumed a powerklaw in any state of function would make a lot of metallic screeching sounds. And a sorta punch dagger is usually associated with the stealthy assassin types.
And the grapple part of the klaw would have a lot of use as well. Kommandoes could maybe get the ignores vertical height rule like reivers.
A new hero, revamped warscrolls for Morathi herself, new sub-faction, new battalion, and a Cities of Sigmar sub-faction that allows DoK to be included in it.
NinthMusketeer wrote: A new hero, revamped warscrolls for Morathi herself, new sub-faction, new battalion, and a Cities of Sigmar sub-faction that allows DoK to be included in it.
Gee, I'm sure orks will love new ways to use their drinking age models. This is something that has been commented to death. Rules are extremely fleeting for gw, given they have a 3-year edition cycle nowadays. Kits and plastic are what the meat lies. And as the ork players around here said: "we want orks, not 6 variants of a buggie."
Orks need characters, replacements for finecast models, an actual kopta kit and that's it.
Stay the feth away from our plastic models, no matter what age they are. They are decent as they are, and any remake would without doubt come with a whole slew of negatives.
The Ork Boyz kit has an advantage that human or human like kits like Eldar don't have: Their proportions are all kind of weird, so unlike "human" proportions they don't see off to us even after 20 years. Those giant sized heads and hands that in cadians and old plastic eldar look like ass in the old orks look completely fine.
The ork boyz kit could probably go another 10 years without a change and it would still look fine alongside moder plastics.
Things like plastic kommandos, plastic characters, deffkoptas, etc... all of those are fine, but the actual ork plastic line, right now, is perfectly fine.
Orks need in plastic
Ork big mek w kff Ork kommandos (probably snikrot variety)
Ork tankbustas
Deffkopta
Weirdboy (probably named snakebite variant)
Boss zagstrukk
Warboss on bike (named evil sun character variant)
Madboss grotsnik
Nob w banner
We won’t get even half of that but that’s the fine cast stuff we still have.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Genuine question from someone not an Ork player. But why the need for new Boyz?
So far as I can make out, the current kit offers all their options, though I think the Nobz’ equipment is limited to Powerklaw and Shoota.
To my eyes, the sculpts still hold up, so I’m wondering if I’m missing something, beyond the kit being a fair old age.
Yeah I have never understood fixation with new boyz. Not only you would likely get at least 20% price hike if not more you would lose poses as you would get 10 boyz all in same pose period. Might lose nob as well and also in rule if worst goes(GW doesn't do one model that can alternatively be nob). Convertability sinks. And other plastic options are pushed back. Boyz or tank busta? Which is more in demand for new plastic kit...
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Genuine question from someone not an Ork player. But why the need for new Boyz?
"It'S sUcH aN oLd KiT!!1"
A new Boyz kit is a major "be careful what you wish for" request.
If they did it the box would have 10 models (rather than 11), and they'd all be in wonderfully dynamic poses that would start to look odd when bunched up in big hordes. Given some recent releases there may not even be enough parts to make them all Shoota Boyz or Slugga Boyz.
And they'd cost more!
The current Boyz are old, but they look good. New ones is a risk.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Genuine question from someone not an Ork player. But why the need for new Boyz?
So far as I can make out, the current kit offers all their options, though I think the Nobz’ equipment is limited to Powerklaw and Shoota.
To my eyes, the sculpts still hold up, so I’m wondering if I’m missing something, beyond the kit being a fair old age.
Most criticism seems to be stemming from people having an issue with the posture or those who somehow are offended by them sticking out their buts like the gorillas they are based on.
Usually the same people don't realize that lootaz, burnas, warbikers and some ork crew are based on the exact same model with the same posture.
Wild prediction based on the rumor engines: it's just plastic Kommandos and plastic Tankbustas.
Rokkit Hammer, Kommando Klaw, the wheel is gonna be just like a wheel hanging off of a tankbustas jacket or he's like replaced his leg with a wheel or something and you have to have one wheel-legged busta for every 5 you have.
I love the current boyz, and the basic sprue was recut not that long ago, so it's not like it's lagging in injection tech or anything.
I respect that some might not like the gorilla look, but it would be delusional to expect a resculpt would change that, there are too many kits for that.
I wouldn't exactly complain about a new Boyz recut if it added meaningful new parts, but it's not necessary. As others have said, what we need is moving finecast units like Tankbustas to plastic and covering units that are currently not available like Deffkoptas. If these come as a dual kit with a new unit, that's great.
Fingers crossed we don't get something dumb like 6 different monobuild dekkfopta variants tho.
I'm also completely happy with the current plastic Ork Boyz. They have everything that you could wish for, and if you want a Nob with some different equipment, you can get that in the Nob kit.
A plastic Tankbusta/Kommando kit would make me very happy, and I would easily buy multiple boxes.
There’s also a long lead time in terms of GW’s design process, so any customer feedback (such as “we prefer dual kits where possible”) takes time to implement.
So yes, we have seen single kits which could’ve been dualled. The feedback from those wouldn’t be reflected for some time.
I liked the six types of buggies. Made me happy. Having to re-do all my Ork boyz because they brought a new kit that made the old ones look awful would not make me happy. I think the current boyz are ok and doubt they are a priority for a range that has non plastic squads still in it and scope for adding new squads quite easily. No need to explain where the new ORK types have been like with marines. They are just here now and there you go.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Genuine question from someone not an Ork player. But why the need for new Boyz?
"It'S sUcH aN oLd KiT!!1"
A new Boyz kit is a major "be careful what you wish for" request.
If they did it the box would have 10 models (rather than 11), and they'd all be in wonderfully dynamic poses that would start to look odd when bunched up in big hordes. Given some recent releases there may not even be enough parts to make them all Shoota Boyz or Slugga Boyz.
And they'd cost more!
The current Boyz are old, but they look good. New ones is a risk.
I agree, but I worry more about the design rather than cost. So far new Orks for AoS and the Gorkamorka remake Ork are lucklaster- especially the noses and jawlines. Waaay too generic. Oh, and the buggy crew also don’t look appealing to me. I wish GW wouldn’t continue with that direction for the plastic kits such as Kommandos. Or at least designs with easy headswaps would be acceptable.
A new Boy kit, that stays true to the “originals” but with refined details would be grand.
Galas wrote: Hmmm... dual kits are still a thing? The adeptus mechanicus horses and flying dudes, or the new slaanesh AoS chaos warriors, for example?
yeah, but Kommandos and Tankbustas share basically no equipment, and would have to have separate arms. And personality-wise, their outfits would be very different. I doubt they'd give them the same kits.
Probably more likely that Kommandos and TBs get a bunch of zany unique equipment you can take 1 of optionally per squad, Plague Marine Style.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Genuine question from someone not an Ork player. But why the need for new Boyz?
"It'S sUcH aN oLd KiT!!1"
A new Boyz kit is a major "be careful what you wish for" request.
If they did it the box would have 10 models (rather than 11), and they'd all be in wonderfully dynamic poses that would start to look odd when bunched up in big hordes. Given some recent releases there may not even be enough parts to make them all Shoota Boyz or Slugga Boyz.
And they'd cost more!
The current Boyz are old, but they look good. New ones is a risk.
I agree, but I worry more about the design rather than cost. So far new Orks for AoS and the Gorkamorka remake Ork are lucklaster- especially the noses and jawlines. Waaay too generic. Oh, and the buggy crew also don’t look appealing to me. I wish GW wouldn’t continue with that direction for the plastic kits such as Kommandos. Or at least designs with easy headswaps would be acceptable.
A new Boy kit, that stays true to the “originals” but with refined details would be grand.
Man I had the opposite reaction to the buggy krew. I looked at the krew from the Boomdakka Snazzwagon like holy hell can I have a whole boyz kit made like this, these guys look incredible.
I don't consider the ork boyz kit good. They're not bad, I guess. Like, they fit the army, more than the tankbustas and resin kits. But they're terribly proportioned, with their gorilla butts jutting out. And they're also small. Orks should be way bigger, especially since we do have much larger sisters, space marines, etc these days.
GaroRobe wrote: I don't consider the ork boyz kit good. They're not bad, I guess. Like, they fit the army, more than the tankbustas and resin kits. But they're terribly proportioned, with their gorilla butts jutting out. And they're also small. Orks should be way bigger, especially since we do have much larger sisters, space marines, etc these days.
Why are so many people desparate for things to be bigger? The Boyz are fine, and they're totally in proportion to other stuff – if anything, they were oversized in comparison to older Marines, Sisters etc.
I've no particular interest in an updated Boyz kit – I'd much rather see Finecast units updated, old units brought back (still crossing my fingers for a new Mega-armoured Warboss), or entirely new units.
Also, the cross-compatibity of the plastic Ork kits is one of the best things about the range, and if the Boyz kit changes, there's a risk *that* goes out the window.
I never saw it as them having their butts "jutting out" but more the gut and torso are pushed forward in an aggressive posture. Constantly. Like an ork would. As someone mentioned.. very gorilla like.
Also as an ork player.. isnt half the fun of collecting an army the ability to scratchbuild anything? I love using boyz as a "base" for limitless conversion potentials.
If a new codex does come out.. I just pray to Gork and Mork that burnas are... *puts on sunglasses* lit.
GaroRobe wrote: I don't consider the ork boyz kit good. They're not bad, I guess. Like, they fit the army, more than the tankbustas and resin kits. But they're terribly proportioned, with their gorilla butts jutting out. And they're also small. Orks should be way bigger, especially since we do have much larger sisters, space marines, etc these days.
For most of us it's probably the biggest fear that Orks got the AoS Orruk (and, well, Primaris) route with some larger subspecies being shoehorned in and everything else is never updated again.
I really want to see new boyz for the simplest fact: ive started in 2004 with the exactly ork boyz we have today... i would really appreciate a change . I totally agree that they are still very good (i love them) and not too "out of place" compared to recent models, but this dont change the fact ive started my gw journey with them and i think it pretty sad that they are still the same, everyone deserve a update time to time lol.
Me, being mainly a collector or rather painter and converter, really enjoing work with that kit over the years but now im honestly bored, i really want to start 40k orks with something new. I also love gorkamorka and im having superfun making a sort of revival of it with most recent miniatures for diggas and some special characters... needless to say some new 40k ork would be amazing for this project.
BUT like someone said it is a real risk for many factors, everyone of us have different taste and expectation about them. We have seen a lot of different orks though the years and for me its like even gw dont know how to update them properly lol. New ghazzy could be a hint, his face very similar to the ironjawz one and a lot smaller and proportioned (compared to old boss and warboss) with the recent models. Even the gorkamorka special character could be a preview.
Personally i would really dislike bigger ork like ironjawz (i like them being ironjawz, but in 40k nah, too big for regular boyz) and a lot of the recent orks face doesnt appeal to me very much. But im glad to take the chance.
ps: my favourite orks though the years are the bloodbowl normal orc team, new boyz like them for my taste would be perfect
pps: after all this blabla i must admit i have very little hope we will see new boyz soon (years) and this make me really sad
I'm mostly just cautiously curious in which direction GW will be going with Orks, but then I'm still mentally stuck with Paul Bonner / Kev Adams style Orks, so I'm kinda indifferent if grimdark gorillas or ironjawz win this casting contest ^^
Orks need plastic HQs and some resin kits converted to plastic.
More than anything just give us some rules worth playing. Most of the klans are bad, subcultures don’t work with list building, and a significant number of units are a liability even in the most casual of games.
Yeah, some of the Klans don't have a current model/character to represent them in game. They had them in the past, either in fluff or in FW books. But come on that's some pretty valuable stuff to explore.
In regards to characters Goffs are almost the Ultramarines of orks. They get damn near a dozen different characters and some klans don't even get one or lose theirs to the no model no rules mentality.
I want to say that they won't make a big mek with KFF, because they've got so many models of meks, from the new plastic one, to the shokk attak gunner, to the one if the plane, etc.
But then I realized GW released four or five flavors of cryptek for the necron release in the span of three months, so it's totally possible.
Jidmah wrote: I'm fairly sure no actual ork player said that.
Okay, I'm positive he will be delighted to know he hasn't painted 200 boyz!
While you're at it, ask him how he feels about painting another 200.
I've gotta say that's some nice elitism there. Though when I said "we need boyz" I didn't *just* mean the ork boyz, but the whole assortment of infantry models I can't be arsed to remember the name of. But okay, let's be pedantic.
MobileSuitRandom wrote: I'm mostly just cautiously curious in which direction GW will be going with Orks, but then I'm still mentally stuck with Paul Bonner / Kev Adams style Orks, so I'm kinda indifferent if grimdark gorillas or ironjawz win this casting contest ^^
Can someone explain what specifically this means? It's something I've seen mentioned quite a few times with new Ork stuff, but looking at the miniatures I don't really see what the difference is.
Part of it is about the posture - when you look at 80ies - early 90ies Space Orks (that's what I mean with Bonner/Adams ones), they're more or less like somehow long-limbed humans; the later ones (where most of the current infantry plastics come from) get this kind of gorilla posture with a bent-through back. The newer ones - like the Buggy crews and the Blood Bowl orcs - lose the gorilla posture, but are far more hulking than the rather spindly 80ies orks. Second part is the faces - before ironjawz and the buggy crews, Orks/Orcs had somehow more gaunt, angular faces, now they got a bit broader and pig-like - it's a very small difference but I think quite distinct. Hope this explains it somehow?
Lord Kragan wrote: I've gotta say that's some nice elitism there. Though when I said "we need boyz" I didn't *just* mean the ork boyz, but the whole assortment of infantry models I can't be arsed to remember the name of. But okay, let's be pedantic.
Well, having 200 actual boyz is rather normal for an ork player (I have around 300), and if you want new models to replace them this means having to replace those, otherwise what's the point?
If GW redid the entire core of the Ork range, they could do a lot with planned cross compatibility to allow players a good range of models even for the those gigantic units of Boyz. But I'm talking about new plastic kits for Boyz, Burnas, Tank Bustas, and Lootas at 2-3 sprues per unit. That might be too ambitious a release.
As for those who say they wouldn't want to purchase 200 new improved Boyz, I had no intention of replacing every metal Adepta Sororitas model in my 1700ish point army that took 20+ years to paint. Today, I have a bigger army in plastic that I painted in less than a year. Thank GW for excellent models.
alextroy wrote: If GW redid the entire core of the Ork range, they could do a lot with planned cross compatibility to allow players a good range of models even for the those gigantic units of Boyz. But I'm talking about new plastic kits for Boyz, Burnas, Tank Bustas, and Lootas at 2-3 sprues per unit. That might be too ambitious a release.
As for those who say they wouldn't want to purchase 200 new improved Boyz, I had no intention of replacing every metal Adepta Sororitas model in my 1700ish point army that took 20+ years to paint. Today, I have a bigger army in plastic that I painted in less than a year. Thank GW for excellent models.
I feel like they'd have to do something like Indomitus, and release the new ork boyz sprue in a box that would entice you to buy for other reasons besides strictly new boyz. Or GW can be dead clever, and give the orkz a new gun option in the box, like they did with the necron warriors, so now you have another reason to get at least a box or two of the boyz.
GaroRobe wrote: I don't consider the ork boyz kit good. They're not bad, I guess. Like, they fit the army, more than the tankbustas and resin kits. But they're terribly proportioned, with their gorilla butts jutting out. And they're also small. Orks should be way bigger, especially since we do have much larger sisters, space marines, etc these days.
In the orks pose they should be human sized. Standing up they would be taller but due to pose they appear human sized. That's fluff.
Were they space marine sized they would be off scale. They should be head shorter than marines, 2 with primaris
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alextroy wrote: If GW redid the entire core of the Ork range, they could do a lot with planned cross compatibility to allow players a good range of models even for the those gigantic units of Boyz. But I'm talking about new plastic kits for Boyz, Burnas, Tank Bustas, and Lootas at 2-3 sprues per unit. That might be too ambitious a release.
As for those who say they wouldn't want to purchase 200 new improved Boyz, I had no intention of replacing every metal Adepta Sororitas model in my 1700ish point army that took 20+ years to paint. Today, I have a bigger army in plastic that I painted in less than a year. Thank GW for excellent models.
Cross compatibility isn't exactly a thing for gw these days. You would be lucky to have heads fit and not have unique connection for each model to require specific head or two. Rest? Prepare for knife and greenstuff
Cynista wrote: Old Orks have the posture of a 21 year old girl posing for an Instagram photo.
Or that of a gorilla standing upright. Which we know, because the sculptor told us that he based their design of gorillas in an interview.
Yeah, and there's a reason why Gorillas don't stand upright for longer periods ...don't get me wrong, I love the current Orkboys, but I do send everyone of them to the Chiropract-ork and readjust the posture.
alextroy wrote: If GW redid the entire core of the Ork range, they could do a lot with planned cross compatibility to allow players a good range of models even for the those gigantic units of Boyz. But I'm talking about new plastic kits for Boyz, Burnas, Tank Bustas, and Lootas at 2-3 sprues per unit. That might be too ambitious a release.
As for those who say they wouldn't want to purchase 200 new improved Boyz, I had no intention of replacing every metal Adepta Sororitas model in my 1700ish point army that took 20+ years to paint. Today, I have a bigger army in plastic that I painted in less than a year. Thank GW for excellent models.
Cross compatibility isn't exactly a thing for gw these days. You would be lucky to have heads fit and not have unique connection for each model to require specific head or two. Rest? Prepare for knife and greenstuff
Yeah, this. At the moment we have complete interchangeability and customisability across the entire Ork infantry range, even into warbikes and vehicle crews. Based on everything else GW have been doing, including the new buggies, that is not going to be a feature of any new kits. I believe there is one Ork out of all of them on the six buggy kits (and there’s at least two Orks per buggy) that has an option on heads compatible with the existing range (the trike driver) and the rest don’t even have options, never mind compatibility.
Not an Ork player as such, but conversion fodder and inspiration for my grot kill team is always nice.
I’d never turn down new parts or potentially new grots.
For the sake of Ork players though, tankbusters need a kit.
And since GW kits have evolved to the point they are now, where’s the squiggoth and boarboys at?
Feral orks need love too.
I’d rather the final fine cast metal kits go to plastic.
See things like Tankbustas, Kommandos. And mega nob stuff still to do?
The boys kit yes is old, but it’s not bad compared to some stuff.
That list is like the tactical Marines, everything can be based off it.
However, as we’ve seen that’s going away as a thing, to have customisation and posing etc.
If they’re changing it, the boys kit is the place to start I guess..
Cynista wrote: Old Orks have the posture of a 21 year old girl posing for an Instagram photo.
Or that of a gorilla standing upright. Which we know, because the sculptor told us that he based their design of gorillas in an interview.
Yeah, and there's a reason why Gorillas don't stand upright for longer periods ...don't get me wrong, I love the current Orkboys, but I do send everyone of them to the Chiropract-ork and readjust the posture.
Ork boys already have a dual weapon option in the kit - shoota or slugga/choppa - I can't see them adding another one like for the Necron warriors. I was wrong on the Necron warriors though, since I didn't think they needed a new kit.
Tankbustas have some options already, although mostly you just give them the rokkit launchas, but with better rules maybe they are viable as a close combat build? So a new kit with both ranged and melee options (plus maybe options for the squigs?) can make sense. They have decent rules, and let's be honest - all finecast kits will eventually be phased out, it's just a question of when.
Kommandos feel a bit... underdeveloped? rules-wise. Most "modern" units get a few nice custom rules, but Kommandos feel rather plain. Also, options-wise being locked into a klaw for the Nob is quite ridiculous - how about a nice shooty option there. Although being equipment-locked by the models is hardly exclusive for Kommandos so... the original Kommandos were all equipped with axes, and new sculpts tend to often look back to the original concept, so maybe there is still hope...
Anyway, two new kits (Tankbustas and Kommandos) would be great, but maybe we can only expect one (if that). I have a bunch of both, converted from boyz so I'm kinda fine - but having more variety is always nice...
I could see both in the kit if it’s like the Plague marines
Each has two plus builds.
And if only five in the box. A few could have three options. A fourth arm. Etc.
Oguhmek wrote: Ork boys already have a dual weapon option in the kit - shoota or slugga/choppa - I can't see them adding another one like for the Necron warriors. I was wrong on the Necron warriors though, since I didn't think they needed a new kit.
Tankbustas have some options already, although mostly you just give them the rokkit launchas, but with better rules maybe they are viable as a close combat build? So a new kit with both ranged and melee options (plus maybe options for the squigs?) can make sense. They have decent rules, and let's be honest - all finecast kits will eventually be phased out, it's just a question of when.
Kommandos feel a bit... underdeveloped? rules-wise. Most "modern" units get a few nice custom rules, but Kommandos feel rather plain. Also, options-wise being locked into a klaw for the Nob is quite ridiculous - how about a nice shooty option there. Although being equipment-locked by the models is hardly exclusive for Kommandos so... the original Kommandos were all equipped with axes, and new sculpts tend to often look back to the original concept, so maybe there is still hope...
Anyway, two new kits (Tankbustas and Kommandos) would be great, but maybe we can only expect one (if that). I have a bunch of both, converted from boyz so I'm kinda fine - but having more variety is always nice...
I could see Kommandos getting climbing rules? Especially if that crampon looking fist is indeed for them or their Nob. Super sneaky Gitz, ideal for going up a building to duff up enemy Snipers.
Cynista wrote: Old Orks have the posture of a 21 year old girl posing for an Instagram photo.
Or that of a gorilla standing upright. Which we know, because the sculptor told us that he based their design of gorillas in an interview.
Yeah, and there's a reason why Gorillas don't stand upright for longer periods ...don't get me wrong, I love the current Orkboys, but I do send everyone of them to the Chiropract-ork and readjust the posture.
Yeah, exactly. It was a questionable/shallow design choice in the first place. Gorillas are shaped that way because they're not strictly bipedal. An organism that is wouldn't be shaped that way.
Although I would have been totally down for an alternate history version of Orks who did alternate between postures and were sculpted/posed accordingly.
Cynista wrote: Old Orks have the posture of a 21 year old girl posing for an Instagram photo.
Or that of a gorilla standing upright. Which we know, because the sculptor told us that he based their design of gorillas in an interview.
Yeah, and there's a reason why Gorillas don't stand upright for longer periods ...don't get me wrong, I love the current Orkboys, but I do send everyone of them to the Chiropract-ork and readjust the posture.
Cynista wrote: Old Orks have the posture of a 21 year old girl posing for an Instagram photo.
Or that of a gorilla standing upright. Which we know, because the sculptor told us that he based their design of gorillas in an interview.
Yeah, and there's a reason why Gorillas don't stand upright for longer periods ...don't get me wrong, I love the current Orkboys, but I do send everyone of them to the Chiropract-ork and readjust the posture.
Yeah, exactly. It was a questionable/shallow design choice in the first place. Gorillas are shaped that way because they're not strictly bipedal. An organism that is wouldn't be shaped that way.
Although I would have been totally down for an alternate history version of Orks who did alternate between postures and were sculpted/posed accordingly
All ork models including the ork buggy crews have that posture. Which means you simply dislike how orks look. Which is fine, but absolutely not a reason to do new ork boyz.
Come on, you can tell how improved the new ork pose is, compared to the butt-jut. You know GW would improve the Ork pose. It's not going to be as drastic as how they redesigned Black Orcs into the Ironjawz faction in AOS. That was creating an entirely new faction and keeping around an old kit to serve as chaff.
GaroRobe wrote: Come on, you can tell how improved the new ork pose is, compared to the butt-jut. You know GW would improve the Ork pose. It's not going to be as drastic as how they redesigned Black Orcs into the Ironjawz faction in AOS. That was creating an entirely new faction and keeping around an old kit to serve as chaff.
1. That's a nob, not a boy, in a heroic pose, modeled after a classic picture. There also is a coat covering the parts in question.
2. A very similar ork can be found on the squigbuggy (the one holding the squiglauncher), sticking out his but like all the others.
3. Just like the model you posted, new boyz would have no extra bits, no options to pose them, and no interchangeability with all the other plastic kits.
4. The kit will definitely have less sprues and will cost more.
5. The average ork player would have to spend at least $360 to update the look of a single run-of-the-mill ork battalion, and that's already assuming GW doesn't pull any stunts to make it even more expensive. Is there a single person on this thread complaining about boyz willing to make that investment?
GaroRobe wrote: This is the most recent Ork boy GW has released.
Compared to the "current" ork look
Spoiler:
Come on, you can tell how improved the new ork pose is, compared to the butt-jut. You know GW would improve the Ork pose. It's not going to be as drastic as how they redesigned Black Orcs into the Ironjawz faction in AOS. That was creating an entirely new faction and keeping around an old kit to serve as chaff.
Some of the newest ork models with the gorilla posture are the new black orc blood bowl team. They still have that posture but just not as exaggerated as the old orkz.
Indeed. There's a lot of talk about "improving" the pose, but that presumes they need to be improved - I like the Nelson gorilla pose, I like that GW Orks/Orks aren't just "slightly bigger than human green bodybuilders with tusks" like everywhere else outside of Tolkien.
And Jidmah has the fundamental point of it all: for all that people might mump and moan about them, how many would be willing to rebuy their entire army from scratch?
Redoing "core" kits makes sense for exactly two reasons:
1. Improvements in technology let you provide some genuine additional value, such as moving from monopose to multipose/multipart kits.
2. As part of a deliberate decision to alter the visual style of the entire faction.
Modern GW kits can be impressive, but not IMO to the point it justifies replacing perfectly functional plastic kits(especially in ranges that aren't yet entirely plastic, in an era where things not being plastic often means they go away entirely - there are better things to use those production slots on). In many cases it's even questionable whether the "improvements" of modern kits actually qualify as such; unique and highly distinctive poses work great for units you need one, maybe two squads of but when you want 50, 60, a hundred models? It looks silly. And as for point 2, how many people really want them to redesign the Orks? I'd wager not many.
Cynista wrote: Old Orks have the posture of a 21 year old girl posing for an Instagram photo.
Or that of a gorilla standing upright. Which we know, because the sculptor told us that he based their design of gorillas in an interview.
Yeah, and there's a reason why Gorillas don't stand upright for longer periods ...don't get me wrong, I love the current Orkboys, but I do send everyone of them to the Chiropract-ork and readjust the posture.
I will admit I am old and am partial to the RT era orks, but the new orks do a good job of avoiding the too much silliness if RT era but looking much better posture/silhouette wise. I could see why one wouldn’t want new boys ($$$), but to me there is not much positive to say about the aesthetics of the current boys kit. To some they are “vintage” but to me they just look out dated. Other old plastic kits have held up better. The plastic guardians, though in exciting, fit much better with more modern miniatures for example.
1. Improvements in technology let you provide some genuine additional value, such as moving from monopose to multipose/multipart kits.
Problem is GW's idea of "additional value" is giving you great sculpts but at the cost of jacking up the cost of the kit and rejiggering the rules to make the new kit the bestiest mostest kit you'll ever need.
Be careful what you wish for....
Knowing GW they'll be redone as Orkks(tm) note the 2 k's to differentiate between plebian or and...
Either/Or wrote: I will admit I am old and am partial to the RT era orks, but the new orks do a good job of avoiding the too much silliness if RT era but looking much better posture/silhouette wise. I could see why one wouldn’t want new boys ($$$), but to me there is not much positive to say about the aesthetics of the current boys kit. To some they are “vintage” but to me they just look out dated. Other old plastic kits have held up better. The plastic guardians, though in exciting, fit much better with more modern miniatures for example.
The thing is, boyz, lootas, burnas, warbikers and many vehicle crews are the exact same sculpt. Not just similar, but the very same ork, with the very same ball joint torsos attached to the very same pair of legs.
If you say the boyz sculpt is no longer up to date and needs re-doing, you are essentially calling for a full primaris-style redo of half the ork line.
If you say the boyz sculpt is no longer up to date and needs re-doing, you are essentially calling for a full primaris-style redo of half the ork line.
Which is what should happen. The AOS orruks have great proportions and look vastly better than any previous GW orcs/orks. All orks should be redone to be like that.
If you say the boyz sculpt is no longer up to date and needs re-doing, you are essentially calling for a full primaris-style redo of half the ork line.
Which is what should happen. The AOS orruks have great proportions and look vastly better than any previous GW orcs/orks. All orks should be redone to be like that.
The AOS "orruks" are a bad joke, and I struggle to believe many people who actually play and like Orks want the whole range replaced with soulless miniHulks.
GaroRobe wrote: Come on, you can tell how improved the new ork pose is, compared to the butt-jut. You know GW would improve the Ork pose. It's not going to be as drastic as how they redesigned Black Orcs into the Ironjawz faction in AOS. That was creating an entirely new faction and keeping around an old kit to serve as chaff.
Can I? That new "ork" is basically the Hulk doing cosplay (even moreso in the case of the AoS new sculpts). I'd rather have orks that aren't buff humans painted green, thank you very much.
If you say the boyz sculpt is no longer up to date and needs re-doing, you are essentially calling for a full primaris-style redo of half the ork line.
Which is what should happen. The AOS orruks have great proportions and look vastly better than any previous GW orcs/orks. All orks should be redone to be like that.
So, you are fine with spending roughly $1500 to upgrade a minor visual detail of your army?
40k is not AoS where you need around 50 models qualifies as a horde. 100 infantry models is very close to the minimum to have a working army and bringing 200 models is still nowhere near what is possible.
For most ork players such a change would mean replacing hundreds of models. Who in their right mind wishes for that?
My observation in regards to this is that most people wanting an update wouldn't buy any orks beyond maybe a few painting projects either way, so I dearly hope GW isn't stupid enough to listen to those people.
So, you are fine with spending roughly $1500 to upgrade a minor visual detail of your army?
40k is not AoS where you need around 50 models qualifies as a horde. 100 infantry models is very close to the minimum to have a working army and bringing 200 models is still nowhere near what is possible.
For most ork players such a change would mean replacing hundreds of models. Who in their right mind wishes for that?
My observation in regards to this is that most people wanting an update wouldn't buy any orks beyond maybe a few painting projects either way, so I dearly hope GW isn't stupid enough to listen to those people.
I replaced my entire marine army with primaris.
But it's not like you have to do that; you can use old models along with the new ones. Clinging to decades old visual continuity that shackles the army to looking terrible is a bad idea, I'm really glad they pulled off that bandaid with the marines and they should do that with the other armies as well. If GW had not done that in the past, you would still be stuck with the second edition era looking orks.
If you say the boyz sculpt is no longer up to date and needs re-doing, you are essentially calling for a full primaris-style redo of half the ork line.
Which is what should happen. The AOS orruks have great proportions and look vastly better than any previous GW orcs/orks. All orks should be redone to be like that.
So, you are fine with spending roughly $1500 to upgrade a minor visual detail of your army?
40k is not AoS where you need around 50 models qualifies as a horde. 100 infantry models is very close to the minimum to have a working army and bringing 200 models is still nowhere near what is possible.
For most ork players such a change would mean replacing hundreds of models. Who in their right mind wishes for that?
My observation in regards to this is that most people wanting an update wouldn't buy any orks beyond maybe a few painting projects either way, so I dearly hope GW isn't stupid enough to listen to those people.
Nobody has to update their old models when kits are refreshed. If you feel a compulsion/obligation to do that it's a highly personal issue, and not a valid, widely-applicable reason for a kit to stay in the dark ages.
Altruizine wrote: Nobody has to update their old models when kits are refreshed. If you feel a compulsion/obligation to do that it's a highly personal issue, and not a valid, widely-applicable reason for a kit to stay in the dark ages.
What about new players? I could very easily see Orks becoming rarer than Genestealer Cults as the price to create an army jumps to almost double what it costs to start almost any other army.
Altruizine wrote: Nobody has to update their old models when kits are refreshed. If you feel a compulsion/obligation to do that it's a highly personal issue, and not a valid, widely-applicable reason for a kit to stay in the dark ages.
What about new players? I could very easily see Orks becoming rarer than Genestealer Cults as the price to create an army jumps to almost double what it costs to start almost any other army.
It's difficult to answer this for a number of reasons.
Firstly, your number seems off (or exaggerated). Using the Canadian prices, because those are what load for me: a box of Ork Boyz costs $45 while most other, newer 10-model troop boxes cost $55. If that pricing carried through to a refreshed Boyz kit, an Ork player would basically be paying +1$ per Boy. Using the figure of 200 Boyz to satisfy your requirement of "creating an army" that means a new player, subject to that projected price increase, would be paying +200$ compared to someone today. That does not double the cost of the army. Unless you want to try to claim that there's a bunch of invisible math behind your position, and you've mentally established that a prototypical Ork army already costs ~180% of "any other army" meaning that that additional $200 would bring it to a clean "double what it costs" for everyone else.
Secondly, what was even the last new horde kit GW released for 40K? Has there been a recent one, and did it conform to the pricing of other troops that are fielded in those numbers? Most of the obvious hordes (Guard, Tyranids) have models from the same generation as the Boyz. Are there any other armies who would realistically field 200 troopers (honest question, not a rhetorical one)? Are Plaguebearers one of those or am I thinking of when Plague Zombie hordes were a thing? When did the Plaguebearer kit come out? It's still $45. Ultimately, if we don't have a recent precedent we can't really speculate on whether GW would throw horde army customers a bone (whether that's keeping the price to $40/45 or putting 15 models in the kit).
Thirdly. GW are dicks, so maybe they wouldn't throw those customers a bone. But starting an army is always an expensive proposition. In fact, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone -- the game's not very good, or fun.
Altruizine wrote: Nobody has to update their old models when kits are refreshed. If you feel a compulsion/obligation to do that it's a highly personal issue, and not a valid, widely-applicable reason for a kit to stay in the dark ages.
What about new players? I could very easily see Orks becoming rarer than Genestealer Cults as the price to create an army jumps to almost double what it costs to start almost any other army.
This is the real rub. I've been toying with picking up an ork army and as much as I would love new sculpts, I have no interest in paying primaris prices for a troop I'm gonna need 10-15+ boxes of.
The rumour engine image in the article looks like something that would maybe make a weirdboy. Maybe finally a plastic weridboy (but you need to buy a full underworlds team to get him).
As far as a new range of sculpt goes all I can say is that I've played and collected my army over 20ish years and have Zero interest in a complete refresh of existing units. Count me out.
If GW wants to do that I hope that the Orks I know get squatted for something new. GW can pass it off as evolution or something.
As far as selling the existing product. That's easier, just release a good codex.
I only buy models I like and as such have completely passed on the last two rounds of Ork models. And if the current trend of , what ever it is these designers are doing continues as I suspect it will them I guess my collection is complete. I look forward to a new codex and cards. If not hat I'll just retire them to older editions. I do hope GW drops something truly magical that gets me excited about my Orks again and I do hope I like any new models they come up with but realistically I am not expecting very much.
Altruizine wrote: Firstly, your number seems off (or exaggerated). Using the Canadian prices, because those are what load for me: a box of Ork Boyz costs $45 while most other, newer 10-model troop boxes cost $55. If that pricing carried through to a refreshed Boyz kit, an Ork player would basically be paying +1$ per Boy. Using the figure of 200 Boyz to satisfy your requirement of "creating an army" that means a new player, subject to that projected price increase, would be paying +200$ compared to someone today. That does not double the cost of the army. Unless you want to try to claim that there's a bunch of invisible math behind your position, and you've mentally established that a prototypical Ork army already costs ~180% of "any other army" meaning that that additional $200 would bring it to a clean "double what it costs" for everyone else.
I think you are benchmarking the wrong likely 10 model box. Yes, GSC Neophytes are $55CAN. They are basically Guardsmen though being on 25mm bases and human sized as well as an older new kit (well aware of the oxymoron there). I think the more accurate benchmark for a new Ork Boyz kit would be the same as Intercessors, $70CAN. I certainly could be wrong, but I really don't think I am.
It was less than a year ago that Ork Boyz went from $29US to $36US. Given that I think $60US is a reasonable guess that is essentially doubling the price of the faction's own core Troop choice. I also reckon that Orks players are probably going to want 3 times the number of Boyz as a Space Marine (Loyalist, Chaos, any) player. I think any new specialist Ork 5 model kit is likely to be $55US which seems to be where a lot of the newer ones are landing. They won't likely share cross compatibility of current Orks such as a box of Lootas/Burnas can cannibalize Boyz kits for all the weapon options save the Spanner with Custom Mega-Blaster (which isn't too hard to kitbash something). Add in transports, cans, Meganobs (which are already too pricey for the kit they are) and other units to round out an army and that is easily could exceed double a basic non-horde faction army.
As far as I know the last horde model kit GW has released is the GSC Acolyte/Metamoprh kit. Which as long as I have been interested in GSC, the army wants you to run way more Acolytes than I am willing to put money into given it's a $40 box for 5 models that is base 8ppm. I have a little more than 40 of them either from SC or really cheap 3rd party sellers. I could easily go with another 20 or 40 in an army as they are usually more effective than Neophytes and just as fragile if not more so than Ork Boyz. However, at $80 for 10, that is just too steep for me to want to get many more now that I don't need anything else in the SC and cheap (about $20 for 5) models have all but dried up completely.
Yeah, I think a lot of people pushing for a new Ork kit or redesign just want change for the sake of change, rather than realizing the ramifications of what having a new boyz kit or Ork design paradigm would entail. Unsurprisingly, most of these are non-Ork players who haven't painstakingly assembled countless boyz and other Ork models. The shift to 32mm bases were already an area of contention with some of the Ork player base since some didn't want to rip off models or buy base extenders. So having completely new models that will undoubtedly be more expensive for arguably less value just makes no sense to me.
All I want for boys is the option to take a burna or big choppa as a special weapon in place of a big shoota or rocket launcher. And for ard boys or skar boys to be points/power upgrades instead of strategems. But those are all rules changes.
Kit wise, no need for new boys right now. Focus on Kommandos, Tankbustas, and Deffkoptas. Going from there, they could expand on the stompa and battlewagon kits, adding more sprues to add optionslime they did the Baneblade and Imperial Knight.
Grimskul wrote: Yeah, I think a lot of people pushing for a new Ork kit or redesign just want change for the sake of change, rather than realizing the ramifications of what having a new boyz kit or Ork design paradigm would entail. Unsurprisingly, most of these are non-Ork players who haven't painstakingly assembled countless boyz and other Ork models. The shift to 32mm bases were already an area of contention with some of the Ork player base since some didn't want to rip off models or buy base extenders. So having completely new models that will undoubtedly be more expensive for arguably less value just makes no sense to me.
I agree. I don't play orks but played greenskins in fantasy and chopping all the bitz of the orc boy kit from the sprue, making a pile of torsos, heads, legs, arms, etc... and then mixing them randomly was, and is still, the best fun I have had ever in this hobby.
Ironically, the target of a potential Ork refresh would be those who haven’t painstakingly assembled a billion points of the old kits. Those folks would likely not be buying a whole heck of a lot to begin with. But the folks on here who have appreciated newer kits like the Ironjawz for AoS, and would look forward to more like that are right in the GW wheelhouse for potential buyers of a line refresh.
Dread Master wrote: Ironically, the target of a potential Ork refresh would be those who haven’t painstakingly assembled a billion points of the old kits. Those folks would likely not be buying a whole heck of a lot to begin with. But the folks on here who have appreciated newer kits like the Ironjawz for AoS, and would look forward to more like that are right in the GW wheelhouse for potential buyers of a line refresh.
Except the new kits are almost guaranteed to be more expensive, so something like 3 troops 2 HQ and a pair of elite units to build a basic 1000 points ork army would cost 700+ USD, 430+ GBP or 520+ EUR. Once they figure out that a 2k army means paying three to four times as much money as any other army, you would lose all those ironjawz fans as well, leaving you with no target group at all for the upgrade.
"No buying a whole heck of a lot" is not an options when playing orks.
Dread Master wrote: Ironically, the target of a potential Ork refresh would be those who haven’t painstakingly assembled a billion points of the old kits. Those folks would likely not be buying a whole heck of a lot to begin with. But the folks on here who have appreciated newer kits like the Ironjawz for AoS, and would look forward to more like that are right in the GW wheelhouse for potential buyers of a line refresh.
Except the new kits are almost guaranteed to be more expensive, so something like 3 troops 2 HQ and a pair of elite units to build a basic 1000 points ork army would cost 700+ USD, 430+ GBP or 520+ EUR.
Once they figure out that a 2k army means paying three to four times as much money as any other army, you would lose all those ironjawz fans as well, leaving you with no target group at all for the upgrade.
"No buying a whole heck of a lot" is not an options when playing orks.
Exactly, and with Orks generally needing to have multiples of the same unit for them to be effective, even in a non-boyz centric list (which again basically ruins the point of a Ork resculpt reboot) you can't do what marines do and just plug in a few different units and you're good to go. Orks don't have any box sets or cost-efficient starter sets ever since AoBR went OOP, so Orks would join GSC levels of expensive to start.
Current ork plastics line, where almost everything can be combined with almost anything, is the most interesting line of miniatures from all GW precisely because it still is beholden to an old standard.
The newer lines have been less and less interesting. Even if singularly the minis might be more "natural". Hell, the newest ork releases have been dull as dirt! Take the new buggies, for example, that can only be assembled a single way. Woop de doo.
Having recently dipped my toe into Orks, I got to say the posture really is a bit of a turn off. Having to spend several hours cutting and green stuffing the legs so that it doesn't look like I have an army of dickbutts is tedious, though to be fair doable. If they do a kit refresh that just fixes that posture but leaves the stuff that works fine already be, I wouldn't mind overmuch. Though that is a slippery slope with GW, as they will probably decide any refresh needs to be 15$ or more extra.
That said, I'd rather they put the things still stuck in finecast hell into plastic first.
Jidmah wrote: So just 5 identically posed clones of each boy per battalion. Totally worth spending hundreds of dollars for more straight backs in a horde unit.
Depends on how they construct the kit. The Battle Sister's box has multiple models with 3 different builds, while the 4 special weapons torso differ only at the head and weapon (with 4 options).
And that assumes you don't want to do any kit-bashing or converting at all.
Albertorius wrote: Current ork plastics line, where almost everything can be combined with almost anything, is the most interesting line of miniatures from all GW precisely because it still is beholden to an old standard.
The newer lines have been less and less interesting. Even if singularly the minis might be more "natural". Hell, the newest ork releases have been dull as dirt! Take the new buggies, for example, that can only be assembled a single way. Woop de doo.
I do have to say that the Bladeguard and Eradicator kits are a step in the direction of a happy medium. The torso and legs are fixed pose, but the arms are far more interchangeable and there is a lot more variety there. I had a lot of fun building both kits. Subassemblies do build specific ways, but for 3 model units, there is quite a bit of room to make them look less li,e a sea of clones.
Stormspeeder is a pretty easy and straightforward build, but they will look very samey with duplicates.
Psychomancer...is a cool looking model, but made it into my top 5 most annoying models to build, beating out Morathi but behind the old metal hybrid land raider crusader.
Back on orks, I am hoping the new kits see the necron style update with new weapons and loadouts in the box rather than the direct copies of older models just in plastic like the howling banshees or incubi. Both the latter look great, but I'd like to see Kommandoes gain things like the snags klaw and grapplers, maybe even orky snipers. Tankbustas with a choice between normal rokkits, rokkit pistols and tank hammas, or a heavy rokkit that does more damage , maybe squig mines as an option vs squig bombs.
The thing about 'great-looking' or 'horrible-looking' ork posture is that it is subjective. It's really hard to tell from here exactly how many gamers would buy more orks (or buy orks at all) if you refreshed the line with an substantially different anatomy. I'm not knocking people who don't like the gorilla-squat orks. I myself love them, and would probably stop buying orks from GW if the old orks were discontinued. But that doesn't make me, or them, wrong.
What complicates the tradeoff is that the old-style orks are cross-compatible across boys, bikers, lootas/burnas, trukk crew, battlewagon crew, aircraft crew, out-of-print GW metal upgrades, in production and out-of-production Forgeworld stuff, and many, many third party bits. Those options give you huge, huge customizability for your models, which really matters to a lot of people fielding huge armies, and a lot of long-term ork players who can keep their collection fresh by adding converted models as new projects.
If GW does refresh the range, does the entire compatible range get refreshed? Are the new models compatible with the old ones? Given the trends in sculpting from GW, it's HIGHLY unlikely that you will see kits that are as hugely cross-compatible as the old ones. If they get refreshed slowly (which is much more likely than redoing multiple troops choices, as well as crew upgrades for vehicles that aren't getting updated, you'll have even more of a problem doing easy conversions.
I'm sure that it is hugely annoying to need to get the right bit from some other ork kit to outfit something correctly (for those of us without bits boxes the size of refrigerators), but GW's recent trend (Death Guard, for instance) solves that not through cross-compatibility, but through disallowing any weapons and wargear options that aren't in the box. This is the exact opposite of what many, many ork players want. Even ork players who might want new sculpts probably don't want you to be limited to mobs of precisely ten boys, five with sluggas, five with shootas, with a nob with a big choppa--and nothing else whatsoever.
I'm personally terrified that Orks will get the Primaris treatment, because the amazing modularity and cross-compatibility of the range is what I love the most about them. Each box you buy gives you more bits that you can use in your own army to create your own vision. I'm especially afraid because there's so much opportunity for GW to expand orks without redoing the line (cross-compatible kommandos, cross-compatible tankbustas, cross-compatible Koptas) and make the range more accessible (hey, what about a plastic squiggoth, or a plastic huge squiggoth, or a plastic battlefortress, or a plastic chinork, or ork fortifications, or even a plastic warboss?). A refresh of the line would consume modeling, rules, and production capacity and reduce greatly the chance of seeing a lot of the stuff a lot of ork players have been seeking a long time.
On the topic of that Orruk previewed, he looks amazing. He really does. But he's a singular model. He's a character model. Would it be nearly as neat to have 1-2 of him in every 10 boys? Would it be cool to have him as your only option for a nob? Probably not. But if he was easily compatible with every other ork nob, and freebooter, and nob on bike, suddenly, it's not unreasonable to buy a few. Field one unmodified. Put another on a bike, use a third with some conversion...
As an aside, I do sympathize with people who don't like the current ork sculpts. It's frustrating to like a faction, but to not have that faction's aesthetic match your preferences. I loved, loved, loved Space Wolves back when they were Space Vikings. Just mad about them. But when they made the move towards literal wolf-natured things (Wulfen as routine, Wolf Riders, Wulfen Dreadnoughts) and ice magic (ice axes, ice cannons), I couldn't stand that stuff--but it is obviously popular. I felt like I lost the army that I liked (grim Space Norsemen) for an army other people liked. I don't have a solution for you, but I'm not dismissing your opinion.
Also, a thought I only had after posting initially, GW may be motivated to refresh the range precisely to frustrate third party makers of Ork bits. I'm also hugely nervous about that possibility. But GW runs a real risk there as well. Does refreshing the range get ork players to abandon the third party models, or does it get them to abandon GW entirely and run third-party models. There's already cross-compatible heads, arms, legs, and torsos, as well as weapons. I'm pretty sure it would be child's play for several of these companies to easily make their own versions of any new weapon/wargear options from GWand make them compatible with old-style orks. So GW needs to weigh whether a model range change attracts more new buyers that it drives away current buyers (or new buyers who like the old style and cross-compatibility).
Albertorius wrote: Current ork plastics line, where almost everything can be combined with almost anything, is the most interesting line of miniatures from all GW precisely because it still is beholden to an old standard.
The newer lines have been less and less interesting. Even if singularly the minis might be more "natural". Hell, the newest ork releases have been dull as dirt! Take the new buggies, for example, that can only be assembled a single way. Woop de doo.
I do have to say that the Bladeguard and Eradicator kits are a step in the direction of a happy medium. The torso and legs are fixed pose, but the arms are far more interchangeable and there is a lot more variety there. I had a lot of fun building both kits. Subassemblies do build specific ways, but for 3 model units, there is quite a bit of room to make them look less li,e a sea of clones.
Yeah, but 3 model units have an obvious downside with the tiny unit size. Its easy to allow for customization when you're fitting out a grand total of 3 marines or maybe 6 in a full unit.
Lots of room on the sprue for random bits.
For real unit sizes (10) or worse, hordes... that just isn't viable and isn't going to happen.
As someone who has recently started an ork army, I really enjoyed assembling and painting my first box of Boyz. The second box was a lot less fun, and I cant say I'm looking forward to the next 4 or so boxes overmuch.
There has to be a happy medium between a full on primaris style redesign that breaks the visual continuity of the range, and having to paint slight variations on the same model 50 times per army.
Horde armies inherently have a lot of challenges for the hobbyist in terms of cost and time investment required. I don't think we should discount the possibility that GW will realise that and address it, if only to encourage people to invest in a new model line.
Morghot wrote: I really want to see new boyz for the simplest fact: ive started in 2004 with the exactly ork boyz we have today... i would really appreciate a change
It's not the same kit though. The Ork Boy kit got redone in 2008/9. Using your logic we still have the same Tactical Marines from 1998.
Either/Or wrote: I believe they were not new sculpts, just a recut of the sprue. They certainly look the same to me.
The boyz are the same (I don't know if it was a recut, it might even be the exact same sprue), but they added an extra sprue for weapons, bitz and the Nob.
So yeah, the boyz themselves haven't changed since the boxed set prior to the current one.
I did wonder that (it's been over a decade since I've built any 40k Orks and I could have sworn they were separate pieces as I remember doing the old trick of chopping up shootas to make big shootas and twin linked big shootas).
But even the shootas themselves still manage to look identical, lol.
Morghot wrote: I really want to see new boyz for the simplest fact: ive started in 2004 with the exactly ork boyz we have today... i would really appreciate a change
It's not the same kit though. The Ork Boy kit got redone in 2008/9. Using your logic we still have the same Tactical Marines from 1998.
Yep i know that but the kit is the same, i buy my first orks in 2004 and they are exactly the same now (head, torso, arms, legs). They added some extra sprue thats all.
Secondly, what was even the last new horde kit GW released for 40K? Has there been a recent one, and did it conform to the pricing of other troops that are fielded in those numbers? Most of the obvious hordes (Guard, Tyranids) have models from the same generation as the Boyz. Are there any other armies who would realistically field 200 troopers (honest question, not a rhetorical one)? Are Plaguebearers one of those or am I thinking of when Plague Zombie hordes were a thing? When did the Plaguebearer kit come out? It's still $45. Ultimately, if we don't have a recent precedent we can't really speculate on whether GW would throw horde army customers a bone (whether that's keeping the price to $40/45 or putting 15 models in the kit).
Thirdly. GW are dicks, so maybe they wouldn't throw those customers a bone. But starting an army is always an expensive proposition. In fact, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone -- the game's not very good, or fun.
Gw ups prices of new sku's. Horde. Non-horde. Irrevevant.
Atm troops are 55/10. Orks would be at least 55/10. It's even possible price goes up. Been a while already since troop box level went up after all. 60 for 10 isn't impossible.without nob(atm it's 45 for 11 models). Which could also result no boss nob in game.
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kurhanik wrote: Having recently dipped my toe into Orks, I got to say the posture really is a bit of a turn off. Having to spend several hours cutting and green stuffing the legs so that it doesn't look like I have an army of dickbutts is tedious, though to be fair doable. If they do a kit refresh that just fixes that posture but leaves the stuff that works fine already be, I wouldn't mind overmuch. Though that is a slippery slope with GW, as they will probably decide any refresh needs to be 15$ or more extra.
That said, I'd rather they put the things still stuck in finecast hell into plastic first.
Doesn"t need refresh. Needs just new sku. Even if models are same.
The thing about "don't refresh the sculpts, I have a massive army!" is, you're not going to be buying enough to warrant new kits anyway. You have an army, you're no longer GW's main target audience which is people starting a *new* army. And if you buy one, or even two, boxes of "new orks" that look more like orruks in posture, they will melt seamlessly into your 150 ork boyz anyway.
So, I really like the push together boys from AoBR. I have something between 70 and 90 of them. These were a god send a few editions ago. I like the more dynamic "mono-builds" GW are producing now, Primaris being the largest example I have experience with. GW's 3d modeling has come a long way from where it was in 08/09 with the Ork refresh at that time.
I would wish GW would go back to putting at least 16 Ork Boys in a box in the future. I think it would go over well enough if they were much like the AoBR boys with the attachment of an arm or two and a head. Something to complement a multi part box. Unit filler.
Price is the issue for sure. GW really needs to put enough models in boxes comparable to the units sizes in a codex to make playing those armies something people can decide to do with out being turned off by the cost. Some armies are more cost effective to put on the table. GW could provide that value with boxes of unit filler where quaintly is it's own quality, if they wanted to.
This is more important, it would seem to me, if GW is intending to do an complete refresh of an entire faction. And while it's partly a slap in the face of older collectors might incline both new players and long time players to buy in with less grumping.
Between that and a codex with a clearly new direction I think it's something I could get excited about.
If not then there's always the third party models thing out there to hopefully take care of supporting a phased out model line.
About the posture though, these are aliens.
I can't understand buying an army full of models I don't like the vast majority of but then I don't understand why people paint Orks in any color other than green either.
I love the ork community! I never see the players of any other race get this worked up over releases. There is something special about orks. I mean, sure, everyone gets excited when their army gets stuff, or when a banger of a kit comes out, but ork players are always on a different level!
Orks hooked me way back in RT/2nd. I am almost 45 and I still get giddy as a kid when there is even a possibility of new ork stuff.
Nightlord1987 wrote: Looking to sell/trade all my orks... but I have made so many conversions im hard pressed to get rid of them... they're just taking up space!
I'm in a similar boat. I had over 20K in old points (7th and before) I'd like to boil it down to something playable and part with the rest but I've put a lot of time into my collection and don't even know where to start or what to value what I would part with is the right way. But they take up soooooo much space. It's a little funny because I did start to clear out my never going to get to these pile a few years ago.
It's also sad because everything I'd part with now is fully painted.
Secondly, what was even the last new horde kit GW released for 40K? Has there been a recent one, and did it conform to the pricing of other troops that are fielded in those numbers? Most of the obvious hordes (Guard, Tyranids) have models from the same generation as the Boyz. Are there any other armies who would realistically field 200 troopers (honest question, not a rhetorical one)? Are Plaguebearers one of those or am I thinking of when Plague Zombie hordes were a thing? When did the Plaguebearer kit come out? It's still $45. Ultimately, if we don't have a recent precedent we can't really speculate on whether GW would throw horde army customers a bone (whether that's keeping the price to $40/45 or putting 15 models in the kit).
Thirdly. GW are dicks, so maybe they wouldn't throw those customers a bone. But starting an army is always an expensive proposition. In fact, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone -- the game's not very good, or fun.
Gw ups prices of new sku's. Horde. Non-horde. Irrevevant.
Atm troops are 55/10. Orks would be at least 55/10. It's even possible price goes up. Been a while already since troop box level went up after all. 60 for 10 isn't impossible.without nob(atm it's 45 for 11 models). Which could also result no boss nob in game.
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kurhanik wrote: Having recently dipped my toe into Orks, I got to say the posture really is a bit of a turn off. Having to spend several hours cutting and green stuffing the legs so that it doesn't look like I have an army of dickbutts is tedious, though to be fair doable. If they do a kit refresh that just fixes that posture but leaves the stuff that works fine already be, I wouldn't mind overmuch. Though that is a slippery slope with GW, as they will probably decide any refresh needs to be 15$ or more extra.
That said, I'd rather they put the things still stuck in finecast hell into plastic first.
Doesn"t need refresh. Needs just new sku. Even if models are same.
You would be lucky to get just 15% price hike.
I would hope a new Boyz kit would get a bit of a horde discount since you'll likely be buying many boxes of them, though I wouldn't put it past GW to charge Primaris level prices for them (and then proceed to wonder why no one wants to buy Orks).
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I think Orks might have the only playerbase in Warhammer that gets utterly furious at the concept of new models
I mean, had instead of adding in Primaris they way they did, they just replaced the first born with them, I suspect Space Marine players would have also gotten upset.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I think Orks might have the only playerbase in Warhammer that gets utterly furious at the concept of new models
I mean, had instead of adding in Primaris they way they did, they just replaced the first born with them, I suspect Space Marine players would have also gotten upset.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I think Orks might have the only playerbase in Warhammer that gets utterly furious at the concept of new models
I mean, had instead of adding in Primaris they way they did, they just replaced the first born with them, I suspect Space Marine players would have also gotten upset.
That would have been far less awkward.
A lot of us ork players would be overjoyed with new models.
If you made some legs that had a different stance, even a more upright one, that worked wit the old torsos, arms, and heads, amazing! Look at how many people buy third-party ork 'running legs', or 'squatting legs', or 'sitting legs'.
If you made new torsos in different poses, even more upright ones, that worked with the old heads, arms, and legs, fantastic. Look at the huge, huge array of third party ork torsos out there.
New arms? That work with current ork torsos? Holy cow, we will buy them up. I've bought so many arms with stikkbombs, with different sluggas, with different choppas, flipping the bird, you name it. We'll buy them.
New heads? That work with current ork torsos? Great God Almighty! Ork players will break down your door to buy them. I couldn't possibly name all the different head variants that sell well from who knows how many manufacturers.
Ork players LOVE new models. They just want them to play nice with the old model bits.
I didn't follow the release closely, no, are you generally expecting to buy a horde of the more expensive G-Cult models? Neophyte Hybrids are $44 for a box of 10 which isn't completely horrible. Poxwalkers manage to be $35 for 10.
I think with regular Boyz, they need to squeeze as many Boyz as they can on a single sprue and keep the price down otherwise it will be a thoroughly unappealing army to play where you might want 100+ Boyz but they cost $60 for a pack of 10.
I didn't follow the release closely, no, are you generally expecting to buy a horde of the more expensive G-Cult models? Neophyte Hybrids are $44 for a box of 10 which isn't completely horrible. Poxwalkers manage to be $35 for 10.
I think with regular Boyz, they need to squeeze as many Boyz as they can on a single sprue and keep the price down otherwise it will be a thoroughly unappealing army to play where you might want 100+ Boyz but they cost $60 for a pack of 10.
Neophytes are borderline (too pricey, imo, but a lot of bits). Acolytes are outrageous. Poxwalkers are EZ-build monopose that have been repeatedly sold in various boxed sets, paint sets and what have you. $35 for 10 is rather ridiculous.
To keep boyz low, they'd probably jettison the nob and all his gear, and do a weird 7/8 mix of shootas and sluggas & choppas, similar to the more annoying loadouts in chaos marine kits. Otherwise, yeah, they absolutely would raise the price significantly.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I think Orks might have the only playerbase in Warhammer that gets utterly furious at the concept of new models
Overstating a bit there. Ork players have repeatedly stated that we want new models for stuff that bizarrely haven't been updated even though they're choices you can take but are no longer available model wise (Big Mek with KFF) as well as models that are long overdue for a proper plastic kit, like the Ork Warboss, especially one in Mega Armour. Throw in the obligatory tankbustas and kommandos and I'm not sure what you're talking about. What a lot of are adamant against is unnecessary change in the Ork range when the downsides far outweigh the benefits. With how modular the Ork range is with one another, changing a core kit, which the Ork boyz set is, fundamentally restricts what Ork players can easily kitbash together AND it's almost guaranteed to be more expensive with limited posing options. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, and this certainly fits the bill.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I think Orks might have the only playerbase in Warhammer that gets utterly furious at the concept of new models
That might be connected to orks also being the only army which already has a large core of well done plastic kits which all combine with each other.
There simply is vastly more to lose than to gain.
Instead of wasting effort on updating already great plastic kits to extort money from ork players, they should updates kits and factions that actually need that attention.
I think "great" would be a bit of over statement. I'd say "adequate with a severe case of hyperlordosis" at best, lol. I also don't love how they look around the shoulders, but it's a bit of a compromise between looking decent and being interchangeable/poseable. Some new heads would be great too.
But yeah, they aren't awful, so you'll get a bit of pushback from people who think they're fine as they are.
I'd be happy to see them updates, but I haven't painted an Ork in over a decade (painted a few Orcs though), so it's not like I'm attached to the existing models.
I tend to prefer newer models that reduce poseability to have better looking shoulder muscles, rather than the deltoids that disappear into a flat surface like older models.
But yeah, the current Ork models are ancient, I'd suggest many Ork players who love the existing Boyz probably already own more than they'll get around to painting anyway So I say bring on the newbies!
There's always some discontent when new models come out, and it's understandable if you're still partway through collecting an army to have an update in the aesthetic.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: I think Orks might have the only playerbase in Warhammer that gets utterly furious at the concept of new models
That might be connected to orks also being the only army which already has a large core of well done plastic kits which all combine with each other.
There simply is vastly more to lose than to gain.
Instead of wasting effort on updating already great plastic kits to extort money from ork players, they should updates kits and factions that actually need that attention.
Or re-adding characterful “classic” units again. Boarboyz, bioniks, tankbustas and kommandos, madboyz and more, oh my!
Seriously, gimme dat bubblechukka back GW! Mekboy speedstas were the best.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I think "great" would be a bit of over statement. I'd say "adequate with a severe case of hyperlordosis" at best, lol. I also don't love how they look around the shoulders, but it's a bit of a compromise between looking decent and being interchangeable/poseable. Some new heads would be great too.
The only criticism I've seen in this thread boils down to a matter of taste, and the majority of those people either don't know or willfully ignore that the current boyz sculpt is used by a large number of sets in current ork range.
I'd be happy to see them updates, but I haven't painted an Ork in over a decade (painted a few Orcs though), so it's not like I'm attached to the existing models.
I tend to prefer newer models that reduce poseability to have better looking shoulder muscles, rather than the deltoids that disappear into a flat surface like older models.
But yeah, the current Ork models are ancient, I'd suggest many Ork players who love the existing Boyz probably already own more than they'll get around to painting anyway So I say bring on the newbies!
Don't take this personally, but if GW listens to people with an attitude like yours, it will cause massive problems to people who want to play orks. Boyz are the one non-optional kit every ork player has to buy many boxes, and GW made clear that they aren't going to support large numbers of gretchin as an army core any more. They are not space marines or eldar where one box of troops yields one playable unit.
If you just want to paint cool orks, a kit of kommandoz or tankbustas should be the same as boyz to you. For people actually interested in playing, small issues with aesthetics with models disappear in a horde of models anyways, while three or four 100% identically posed orks stick out like sore thumbs. On top of that, the price of starting an army goes up by a lot.
There's always some discontent when new models come out, and it's understandable if you're still partway through collecting an army to have an update in the aesthetic.
You don't seem to grasp the problem at all, new models aren't a good thing just because they are new. New models are only great if: - The old model is metal/finecast/doesn't have a model (they are not) - The old model no longer fits the aesthetics of the army (they do) - The old model is part of a unit but has to be bought in singles (they are not)
In contrast, every new release has know downsides: - Loss of additional bits for customization (boyz have lots of those, new kits have extra heads or shoulder pads if you're lucky) - Loss of posability (free posing right now, new kits allow you to pose an arm or two, if anything at all) - Loss of interchangeability of bits between units (boyz are 100% compatible with half the ork plastic range) - Increased price
I'd totally love new ork boyz with updated visuals with poses that still look decent when fielded in a unit of 30, that are the same or cheaper than current kits, with no new wargear option that is strictly better than both choppa and shoota. Sadly, I'm not ignorant enough to believe that GW would suddenly do something completely different from what they have been doing for every single new kit released in the last four or so years.
I didn't follow the release closely, no, are you generally expecting to buy a horde of the more expensive G-Cult models? Neophyte Hybrids are $44 for a box of 10 which isn't completely horrible. Poxwalkers manage to be $35 for 10.
I think with regular Boyz, they need to squeeze as many Boyz as they can on a single sprue and keep the price down otherwise it will be a thoroughly unappealing army to play where you might want 100+ Boyz but they cost $60 for a pack of 10.
I think the rubber will meet the road with price rage once they do those model revamps to horde armies. I fully expect you'll see 10 low cost models for $60. I don't envy anyone who wants to make a new Ork, Guard, Nid, insert horde army here. I'll be perfectly content with my old ugly models, unless they try and just force everyone to " upgrade " at which point I don't know how they can try that and not come off bad looking. Though I'll look forward to seeing how people justify it as better for us and done for the communities benefit.
Ork players don’t want new core Boyz when they could have plastic Tankbustas any more than Eldar players want new Guardians when they could have plastic Warp Spiders.
I think its more the fact Ork players don't want large swathes of their army binned to have to buy back at a huge new cost. New models I don't think anyone complains about. Anyone who plays a horde army would dread that prospect. I know I do every time people say " So how about some new plastic guard troops to replace the old ones ? " It makes me sweat, in the bad way and just imagine how expensive making a guard list would be then.
Also, for new players, who is going to start such an army ? They'd be, as said, about as rare as GSC armies of which I know 0 people who have them and the often quoted reason being " They are just too expensive " .
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I think "great" would be a bit of over statement. I'd say "adequate with a severe case of hyperlordosis" at best, lol. I also don't love how they look around the shoulders, but it's a bit of a compromise between looking decent and being interchangeable/poseable. Some new heads would be great too.
The only criticism I've seen in this thread boils down to a matter of taste, and the majority of those people either don't know or willfully ignore that the current boyz sculpt is used by a large number of sets in current ork range.
I'd be happy to see them updates, but I haven't painted an Ork in over a decade (painted a few Orcs though), so it's not like I'm attached to the existing models.
I tend to prefer newer models that reduce poseability to have better looking shoulder muscles, rather than the deltoids that disappear into a flat surface like older models.
But yeah, the current Ork models are ancient, I'd suggest many Ork players who love the existing Boyz probably already own more than they'll get around to painting anyway So I say bring on the newbies!
Don't take this personally, but if GW listens to people with an attitude like yours, it will cause massive problems to people who want to play orks.
Boyz are the one non-optional kit every ork player has to buy many boxes, and GW made clear that they aren't going to support large numbers of gretchin as an army core any more.
They are not space marines or eldar where one box of troops yields one playable unit.
If you just want to paint cool orks, a kit of kommandoz or tankbustas should be the same as boyz to you. For people actually interested in playing, small issues with aesthetics with models disappear in a horde of models anyways, while three or four 100% identically posed orks stick out like sore thumbs. On top of that, the price of starting an army goes up by a lot.
There's always some discontent when new models come out, and it's understandable if you're still partway through collecting an army to have an update in the aesthetic.
You don't seem to grasp the problem at all, new models aren't a good thing just because they are new.
New models are only great if:
- The old model is metal/finecast/doesn't have a model (they are not)
- The old model no longer fits the aesthetics of the army (they do)
- The old model is part of a unit but has to be bought in singles (they are not)
In contrast, every new release has know downsides:
- Loss of additional bits for customization (boyz have lots of those, new kits have extra heads or shoulder pads if you're lucky)
- Loss of posability (free posing right now, new kits allow you to pose an arm or two, if anything at all)
- Loss of interchangeability of bits between units (boyz are 100% compatible with half the ork plastic range)
- Increased price
I'd totally love new ork boyz with updated visuals with poses that still look decent when fielded in a unit of 30, that are the same or cheaper than current kits, with no new wargear option that is strictly better than both choppa and shoota.
Sadly, I'm not ignorant enough to believe that GW would suddenly do something completely different from what they have been doing for every single new kit released in the last four or so years.
I think overall we don't actually disagree all that much on the general stuff, but have just come to a different conclusion. And maybe the difference is you being an Ork player and me being an ex-Ork player for more than a decade.
One thing I disagree with was your list of "New models are only great if"... you missed out one of the biggest ones, which is improved aesthetics.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I think "great" would be a bit of over statement. I'd say "adequate with a severe case of hyperlordosis" at best, lol. I also don't love how they look around the shoulders, but it's a bit of a compromise between looking decent and being interchangeable/poseable. Some new heads would be great too.
The only criticism I've seen in this thread boils down to a matter of taste, and the majority of those people either don't know or willfully ignore that the current boyz sculpt is used by a large number of sets in current ork range.
By "sculpt" do you mean "style"? Because I don't think the Ork Boyz sprue is used in many (if any?) kits outside its own.
Don't take this personally, but if GW listens to people with an attitude like yours, it will cause massive problems to people who want to play orks.
Boyz are the one non-optional kit every ork player has to buy many boxes, and GW made clear that they aren't going to support large numbers of gretchin as an army core any more.
They are not space marines or eldar where one box of troops yields one playable unit.
I don't see how any of that creates a problem with what I said.
If you just want to paint cool orks, a kit of kommandoz or tankbustas should be the same as boyz to you. For people actually interested in playing, small issues with aesthetics with models disappear in a horde of models anyways, while three or four 100% identically posed orks stick out like sore thumbs.
I agree that horde army aesthetics should be different to elite army aesthetics (e.g. avoid excessive detail) but I disagree that small issues with the aesthetics disappear in a horde. And I say that as someone who has painted an Orc horde, a Tyranid horde and a Night Goblin horde. Funnily enough, my Ork army is the only one which never reached horde status, lol. The small aesthetic issues are what makes me want to stab my eyes out after painting 50 of the bastards. If you have models that actually look decent when they're done, it becomes a lot more bearable to paint them, at least to me.
The current Ork kit comes from a period in GW's past which I don't really like, it's when they made everything multipose, but in reality only a few poses looked decent so you ended up with a very same-y and bland looking army, or you actually tried to pose them differently and they ended up looking unnatural.
On top of that, the price of starting an army goes up by a lot.
I said in one of my previous posts, for new Boyz to be viable, GW has to be able to make them cheap (at least cheap by GW standards). They can't be charging Primaris prices for them, they need to be aiming for Poxwalker-esque prices (though Orks are naturally gonna be a touch more expensive seeing as they'll need more parts).
I think a new Boyz kit would have to take some inspiration from Savage Orcs and Poxwalkers. If they can do a big sprue or a pair of smaller sprues with 10 unique bodies with shoulders and deltoids moulded in place, but then swappable heads, changeable arms for some adaptability, weapon swaps, etc, and a couple of small gubbinz that can be attached more randomly.
They could look really good, and even if you had a horde of 50 they'd still look good.
I don't know if it would really be possible to do the crossover kit with the shootas and sluggas though, as that relies on the hideous shoulder joints that the current kit uses.
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AngryAngel80 wrote: I think its more the fact Ork players don't want large swathes of their army binned to have to buy back at a huge new cost. New models I don't think anyone complains about. Anyone who plays a horde army would dread that prospect. I know I do every time people say " So how about some new plastic guard troops to replace the old ones ? " It makes me sweat, in the bad way and just imagine how expensive making a guard list would be then.
Also, for new players, who is going to start such an army ? They'd be, as said, about as rare as GSC armies of which I know 0 people who have them and the often quoted reason being " They are just too expensive " .
I'd question how many people are starting Orks now anyway, and how many are just legacy players from years gone by.
But yeah, I can appreciate not wanting your horde's aesthetic changed. But at some point GW needs to move forward, the Ork models are old and the question GW have to ask themselves is whether a unit that is integral to the army is attracting players or pushing players away.
Updating the Boyz is a lot less egregious than killing all of WHFB in one fell swoop. I doubt the updated aesthetic would be so different that people with the old models would be forced to update.
Don't get me wrong, I don't mind mixing looks, I just don't want my current horde invalidated or binned. I wouldn't put it past GW to try and hard squat or soft squat the old models to force current players to re buy the whole force again. Something they may be slowly rolling out on Marines but could just slam on other factions. That is what I'm concerned of.
As if no one is starting Orks now, you think anyone will start them at $60 for 10 when you need so many of them ?
If its just an updated look then whatever, should still be plenty of the old models for players who want to stick to them. I just worry GW knows the only ones they can try and milk will be current Ork players to re buy the stuff as anyone else won't be crazy enough to try.
I am still confused how releasing new Boys would make you bin all your old ones, assuming weapon options stayed the same?
Like, people still use 2nd ed chaos marines or metal SoBs...
AllSeeingSkink wrote: One thing I disagree with was your list of "New models are only great if"... you missed out one of the biggest ones, which is improved aesthetics.
Yeah, I worded that poorly, it should probably be more like "new upside are only all-upside if...".
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I think "great" would be a bit of over statement. I'd say "adequate with a severe case of hyperlordosis" at best, lol. I also don't love how they look around the shoulders, but it's a bit of a compromise between looking decent and being interchangeable/poseable. Some new heads would be great too.
The only criticism I've seen in this thread boils down to a matter of taste, and the majority of those people either don't know or willfully ignore that the current boyz sculpt is used by a large number of sets in current ork range.
By "sculpt" do you mean "style"? Because I don't think the Ork Boyz sprue is used in many (if any?) kits outside its own.
No, I mean sculpt. Burnas, lootas, warbikers, the battlewagon crew use the exact same SCULPT, to a point where legs, torsos and certain heads and arms are indistinguishable from each other.
In addition to that, at least trukk and naut crew, as well as the pilots of the ork planes use the same style, including the same arm/shoulder issues you have described.
I agree that horde army aesthetics should be different to elite army aesthetics (e.g. avoid excessive detail) but I disagree that small issues with the aesthetics disappear in a horde. And I say that as someone who has painted an Orc horde, a Tyranid horde and a Night Goblin horde. Funnily enough, my Ork army is the only one which never reached horde status, lol. The small aesthetic issues are what makes me want to stab my eyes out after painting 50 of the bastards. If you have models that actually look decent when they're done, it becomes a lot more bearable to paint them, at least to me.
You do see those details when painting, but rarely, if ever, afterwards. As an anecdote, I recently found out one of my old AOBR boyz had lost his head. After some searching I found it on the bottom of a case I hadn't used to transport orks since I started using it for my DG in 2017. I literally played that model dozens of times over the course of three years without me or my opponent realizing that it had lost its head.
On top of that, the price of starting an army goes up by a lot.
I said in one of my previous posts, for new Boyz to be viable, GW has to be able to make them cheap (at least cheap by GW standards). They can't be charging Primaris prices for them, they need to be aiming for Poxwalker-esque prices (though Orks are naturally gonna be a touch more expensive seeing as they'll need more parts).
I'm fairly sure that they will by in the same range as the basic CSM box. Which is quite expensive.
The majority of poxwalkers are just one bit, and a lot smaller than orks. They are more comparable to gretchin than to boyz.
I also don't think there is a single instance where a new kit wasn't more expensive than its predecessor, so there is no reason to expect this to happen.
I think a new Boyz kit would have to take some inspiration from Savage Orcs and Poxwalkers. If they can do a big sprue or a pair of smaller sprues with 10 unique bodies with shoulders and deltoids moulded in place, but then swappable heads, changeable arms for some adaptability, weapon swaps, etc, and a couple of small gubbinz that can be attached more randomly.
I actually don't think pox walkers did the horde thing too well, some of them, like the coat or the hammer model stick out too much. I actually bought some ETB models just to switch those out in mobs of 20.
They could look really good, and even if you had a horde of 50 they'd still look good.
Would they still look good if you had a horde of 90 or 120? Because that's about what an average ork army is running these days. I know my plague marines looked horrible when I brought two blocks of 20 because of all the repeat models.
AngryAngel80 wrote: Don't get me wrong, I don't mind mixing looks, I just don't want my current horde invalidated or binned. I wouldn't put it past GW to try and hard squat or soft squat the old models to force current players to re buy the whole force again. Something they may be slowly rolling out on Marines but could just slam on other factions. That is what I'm concerned of.
As if no one is starting Orks now, you think anyone will start them at $60 for 10 when you need so many of them ?
If its just an updated look then whatever, should still be plenty of the old models for players who want to stick to them. I just worry GW knows the only ones they can try and milk will be current Ork players to re buy the stuff as anyone else won't be crazy enough to try.
I doubt they'll squat your basic Ork Boyz. At most they'll grow a bit bigger and look nicer.
But yeah I totally agree, they can't go charging $60 for 10. That's Primaris pricing.
Maybe 10 for under $40 or 20 for $65 (same price as Slaves to Darkness)?
If they can't do that sort of price level, they shouldn't do it.
Them killing WFB was such a kick in a nards, btw.
My Bretonnians and Wood Elves are still crying
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Jidmah wrote: You do see those details when painting, but rarely, if ever, afterwards. As an anecdote, I recently found out one of my old AOBR boyz had lost his head. After some searching I found it on the bottom of a case I hadn't used to transport orks since I started using it for my DG in 2017. I literally played that model dozens of times over the course of three years without me or my opponent realizing that it had lost its head.
Maybe you and I deviate a bit here, I can recognise most of my Orcs by some feature that I did differently or some mistake I made or whatever, lol.
I will admit I get a bit lost on my Night Goblins, but that's because I have 150 of the Skull Pass ones which are all pretty similar, but my eye still gets drawn to little details on them, haha.
I actually don't think pox walkers did the horde thing too well, some of them, like the coat or the hammer model stick out too much. I actually bought some ETB models just to switch those out in mobs of 20.
They could look really good, and even if you had a horde of 50 they'd still look good.
Would they still look good if you had a horde of 90 or 120? Because that's about what an average ork army is running these days. I know my plague marines looked horrible when I brought two blocks of 20 because of all the repeat models.
Plague Marines only have a few poses I think?
Once you start reaching 100 models I guess it's subjective what looks good. Regular Ork Boyz start to look same-y and bland at that point to my eye, as I see the same heads, the same weapons, the same arms, the same boxy pose repeated over and over even if there's subtle differences in the precise angle of the arms.
I figure 10-ish different poses would be fine. In a regiment of 50 Savage Orcs I don't notice the duplicate poses and from memory they use 10 unique poses, and if you have 2 regiments of 50 I imagine they'd still look fine, especially if the 2nd regiment is equipped with a different weapon.
Kairic Acolytes are one that I think look okay-ish also, though having different elbow joints that fit the same body would help them a lot as my eye gets drawn to the ones holding their arms outstretched in an identical way.
It's always going to be a compromise on muscular models. Space Marines are easy, but having very adaptable models with muscles that still look good is hard.
I appreciate if you prefer compromising on the quality of the sculpts to get slightly more adaptability, but I think there's a nice middle ground that's possible.
Ya I think people are jumping to conclusions that new boys models would completely invalidate old ones, or that the aesthetic would be so distinctly different.
I mean honestly when was the last time GW re-did a complete Troop kit like Boys? Plague Marines, CSM? The core aesthetic doesn't seem to have changed from what I can tell, they are just better sculpted (not saying looks, thats opinion) more detailed models.
And again if you already have 120 boys they aren't going to magically disappear with a new kit. And if anything people who have an overabundance of the current boys will most likely sell some on markets like eBay at a greatly discounted price. They won't be hard to find.
EldarExarch wrote: Ya I think people are jumping to conclusions that new boys models would completely invalidate old ones, or that the aesthetic would be so distinctly different.
I mean honestly when was the last time GW re-did a complete Troop kit like Boys? Plague Marines, CSM? The core aesthetic doesn't seem to have changed from what I can tell, they are just better sculpted (not saying looks, thats opinion) more detailed models.
And again if you already have 120 boys they aren't going to magically disappear with a new kit. And if anything people who have an overabundance of the current boys will most likely sell some on markets like eBay at a greatly discounted price. They won't be hard to find.
Plague Marines and CSM are examples of where old parts don't really fit to the new models anymore. I've magnetized many weapons, old marines always had the guns with one hand on the grip and the open hand on the marine, new plague marines have the open hand modelled to the weapon, so it's much harder to fit to other models, leave alone all scale issues. So in the end back packs, heads and shoulder pads are the only things that are interchangeable between old and new Plague marines or CSM.
I agree with your second part though, my old Plague Marines are doing just fine next to the new ones and are proud to have received a 2nd wound after all these years of service .
AngryAngel80 wrote: I think its more the fact Ork players don't want large swathes of their army binned to have to buy back at a huge new cost. New models I don't think anyone complains about. Anyone who plays a horde army would dread that prospect. I know I do every time people say " So how about some new plastic guard troops to replace the old ones ? " It makes me sweat, in the bad way and just imagine how expensive making a guard list would be then.
New plastic guard get me excited. Because the basic guard kit isn't like the ork boy kit. Its missing basic options. For multiple regiments, basic weapon options are _missing_. Heck, when you get right down to it, multiple regiments are entirely missing, but still have specific rules.
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AllSeeingSkink wrote:Once you start reaching 100 models I guess it's subjective what looks good. Regular Ork Boyz start to look same-y and bland at that point to my eye, as I see the same heads, the same weapons, the same arms, the same boxy pose repeated over and over even if there's subtle differences in the precise angle of the arms.
There's a bunch of different shoota variants, lots of heads (including other kits) and options for right or left handed shootas. And every ork kit adds to the variety with new heads, bits and bobs, and even new bodies in some cases. And that's before any conversion work (even little stuff like replacing sluggas with shootas for a one handed pose)
If they're looking overly samey to you, its either your eye or the ork player is being lazy.
Cronch wrote: you can make each individual ork hand-crafted with little details, on the tabletop it's still going to be a green-gunmetal blob of 100+ models.
Ah. Time to break out the cardboard chits and not bother with miniatures then.
If you made some legs that had a different stance, even a more upright one, that worked wit the old torsos, arms, and heads, amazing! Look at how many people buy third-party ork 'running legs', or 'squatting legs', or 'sitting legs'.
If you made new torsos in different poses, even more upright ones, that worked with the old heads, arms, and legs, fantastic. Look at the huge, huge array of third party ork torsos out there.
New arms? That work with current ork torsos? Holy cow, we will buy them up. I've bought so many arms with stikkbombs, with different sluggas, with different choppas, flipping the bird, you name it. We'll buy them.
New heads? That work with current ork torsos? Great God Almighty! Ork players will break down your door to buy them. I couldn't possibly name all the different head variants that sell well from who knows how many manufacturers.
Ork players LOVE new models. They just want them to play nice with the old model bits.
None of that would happen though. You would get set models and parts from model a would be compatible with model b by sheer dump luck. Big shoota/rokkit would go to same body every time without cutting and green stuffing. And old boy parts? Forget it
But yeah I totally agree, they can't go charging $60 for 10. That's Primaris pricing.
Maybe 10 for under $40 or 20 for $65 (same price as Slaves to Darkness)?
If they can't do that sort of price level, they shouldn't do it.
.
10 32mm base troop infantry. Check prices for those and you see boy price if they get new kit. If they don't do another reqular price hike. Battle sister price is what you are looking at. In good scenario.
They could look really good, and even if you had a horde of 50 they'd still look good.
Would they still look good if you had a horde of 90 or 120? Because that's about what an average ork army is running these days. I know my plague marines looked horrible when I brought two blocks of 20 because of all the repeat models.
Plague Marines only have a few poses I think?
10 poses between DI and the ETB set, which make the bulk of my army, another 7 from two plague marine boxes, plus one set of Space Marine Heros. In theory I could get another 3 poses by buying the reinforcements set, but there are better things to spend money on.
The models that stick out are those which aren't just standing and holding their weapon in front of them, but those which are in a grenade throwing or running pose, or those with a unique weapon sticking out.
Once you start reaching 100 models I guess it's subjective what looks good. Regular Ork Boyz start to look same-y and bland at that point to my eye, as I see the same heads, the same weapons, the same arms, the same boxy pose repeated over and over even if there's subtle differences in the precise angle of the arms.
I figure 10-ish different poses would be fine. In a regiment of 50 Savage Orcs I don't notice the duplicate poses and from memory they use 10 unique poses, and if you have 2 regiments of 50 I imagine they'd still look fine, especially if the 2nd regiment is equipped with a different weapon.
Thing is, 50 boyz is literally unplayable unless you are putting them in trukks, 40k orks are on a completely different scale than AoS orruks or ironjaws. An ork army not absolutely focused on vehicles needs at least 3x30 to function, some players are bringing even more. And this is the least amount of boyz an ork horde has needed to field in years.
I appreciate if you prefer compromising on the quality of the sculpts to get slightly more adaptability, but I think there's a nice middle ground that's possible.
Eh, I think we both have roughly the same vision of what a perfect box of ork boyz would look like, I'm just convinced that a remade box of boyz will be nothing like that vision and end up being overall worse for everyone involved.
Cronch wrote: you can make each individual ork hand-crafted with little details, on the tabletop it's still going to be a green-gunmetal blob of 100+ models.
Ah. Time to break out the cardboard chits and not bother with miniatures then.
good old ad absurdum. Except you're mostly right, when it comes to horde armies chits work just as well from visual POV, cause 10 orks can look unique and cool. A 100 orks are just visual background.
The point is, adding small amount of "new style" orks would not make an army of "old" plastic orks invalid, they'd disappear into the horde, so there's no real downside to it from that perspective.
Cronch wrote: you can make each individual ork hand-crafted with little details, on the tabletop it's still going to be a green-gunmetal blob of 100+ models.
Ah. Time to break out the cardboard chits and not bother with miniatures then.
Nope. Handcrafting every single boy is one of the best parts of playing orks, only topped by hand-crafting nobz because they haven even more options.
I'm also convinced that this joy will disappear when ork boyz become "glue the right-arm-front-torso-left-leg piece to the left-arm-back-torso-right-leg piece" models like all the DG models are. I don't think there are a lot of models where you can do no more than switch a single arm for exactly one other arm and a choice of two heads. Pretty much impossible to customize them without a knife, not even headswaps.
Also remember that orks have three different kits with the legs and torso back joined, and the torso front and neck as a separate piece- nobz, stormboyz, and flash gitz
Cronch wrote: you can make each individual ork hand-crafted with little details, on the tabletop it's still going to be a green-gunmetal blob of 100+ models.
Which is what is desired. Orks look better when at a distance it's one large mob of angry hooligans, but looking in close you notice those little touches added to each individual boy. Vs when you looking out into the mass of 90 or so boys and still go "wait, did I see the same model twice?". That's more the issue with GW's dynamic, mono posed models: They look nice and stand out, but when you have many of them it makes them both harder to be individual but also harder for them to blend in with the other models.
Orks players don't want new models that invalidate older ones. It happened since 7th with most of the new releases: Mek Gunz invalidated Big Gunz, all the new buggies invalidated the old buggies, new Ghaz invalidated old Ghaz.
I'm sure eldar players don't want that either.
New releases are cool when they are like sisters infantries and their tanks or necron warriors, just updated versions of some already existing kits. There's also plenty of new releases that ork players will love cause there is no plastic model. Modern deffkoptas, mad dok or warboss would be awesome. A couple of new characters would be amazing. New boyz? Everyone already has loads of them, and many of us still have to paint a significant number of infantry green skins.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Also remember that orks have three different kits with the legs and torso back joined, and the torso front and neck as a separate piece- nobz, stormboyz, and flash gitz
Correct. There’s a fine line between just enough and too much monopose for Orks. I can take Nobz and make a whole bunch of other units/individual models. Nob Bikers, Painboyz, squad nobz for 3 different units, Nob with Waaagh Banner, Meks, etc just by taking arms and bits from other Orks. I also don’t mind having the Black Reach Boyz for the bulk of my army because the option to make other boyz that offer variety still exists. If I want a Evil Sunz army where all the boyz are shirtless I can do that using both GW and third party bits. All because GW designed the kits to be compatible with each other, including the monopose bodies like Nobz.
The models released with Speed Freeks offer no customization, and the drivers sculpts are in a completely different style than the 2014 and older models, and look more Orruky than Orky. That was bad news and just about killed my interest In Ork models, though Ghaz reestablished some of it. Hopefully GW keeps the interchangeability the old Orks and even the new CSM have (to a degree, it’s nice that I can put the Havok weapons on the regular CSM bodies).
SoD warband for AoS Underworlds is in feb. Maybe lizardmen for Match, and SoulBlight for April. It leaves BoneSplitterz for May possibly. Maybe a shared month for a 40k ork surprise?
You think insta-invalidating every Marine army on the planet overnight would have been 'less awkward'.
Look, I know you love your Primaris Marines with every fibre of your body, but don't try to pretend that a wholesale replacement of all the Marines at the start of 8th would have been a big nothing for everyone. That would have been major. The biggest shakeup since AoS. Potentially bigger, even, given that Marines outsell everything else GW does.
They kinda are? I think the head socket is slightly different due to having a tongue in it for the Flasgitz. So headswaps may look awkward and getting a big choppa on a flashgit body may be tricky.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Aren't the Nobz and Flash Gitz kits completely interchangeable?
Due to the way ork arms are cut, nob wargear is interchangeable between almost all the nobz, including flash gits, warbiker and boyz squad leaders, the nob with warbanner as well as the old metal painboy (not sure about the new one).
A clever ork payer can buy a box of nobz and use the excess bits of the flash gits box to turn the combi-shootas in there into five additional flash gits.
Orks players don't want new models that invalidate older ones. It happened since 7th with most of the new releases: Mek Gunz invalidated Big Gunz, all the new buggies invalidated the old buggies, new Ghaz invalidated old Ghaz.
I'm sure eldar players don't want that either.
New releases are cool when they are like sisters infantries and their tanks or necron warriors, just updated versions of some already existing kits. There's also plenty of new releases that ork players will love cause there is no plastic model. Modern deffkoptas, mad dok or warboss would be awesome. A couple of new characters would be amazing.
I doubt new Boyz are going to invalidate old Boyz.
New boyz? Everyone already has loads of them, and many of us still have to paint a significant number of infantry green skins.
"Everyone already has loads of them" is the reason they might update them. If existing players aren't buying more of them, and they're an essential unit for new players yet have a poor aesthetic compared to more recent releases, it'd be a good reason for an update.
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zend wrote: The models released with Speed Freeks offer no customization, and the drivers sculpts are in a completely different style than the 2014 and older models, and look more Orruky than Orky. That was bad news and just about killed my interest In Ork models, though Ghaz reestablished some of it. Hopefully GW keeps the interchangeability the old Orks and even the new CSM have (to a degree, it’s nice that I can put the Havok weapons on the regular CSM bodies).
On the other hand, the Speed Freeks models rekindled my interest in Orks (right before the prices killed it again ).
AllSeeingSkink wrote: "Everyone already has loads of them" is the reason they might update them. If existing players aren't buying more of them, and they're an essential unit for new players yet have a poor aesthetic compared to more recent releases, it'd be a good reason for an update.
Can we stop this flawed logic? If that were the case, they definitely should not start orks at all, because almost all models have the same poor aesthetic. Because they look the exact same as boyz.
Seriously, I could take a picture of four of my models that I'm using as boyz and you would be unable to tell which kit they came from.
Orks players don't want new models that invalidate older ones. It happened since 7th with most of the new releases: Mek Gunz invalidated Big Gunz, all the new buggies invalidated the old buggies, new Ghaz invalidated old Ghaz.
I'm sure eldar players don't want that either.
New releases are cool when they are like sisters infantries and their tanks or necron warriors, just updated versions of some already existing kits. There's also plenty of new releases that ork players will love cause there is no plastic model. Modern deffkoptas, mad dok or warboss would be awesome. A couple of new characters would be amazing.
I doubt new Boyz are going to invalidate old Boyz.
New boyz? Everyone already has loads of them, and many of us still have to paint a significant number of infantry green skins.
"Everyone already has loads of them" is the reason they might update them. If existing players aren't buying more of them, and they're an essential unit for new players yet have a poor aesthetic compared to more recent releases, it'd be a good reason for an update.
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zend wrote: The models released with Speed Freeks offer no customization, and the drivers sculpts are in a completely different style than the 2014 and older models, and look more Orruky than Orky. That was bad news and just about killed my interest In Ork models, though Ghaz reestablished some of it. Hopefully GW keeps the interchangeability the old Orks and even the new CSM have (to a degree, it’s nice that I can put the Havok weapons on the regular CSM bodies).
On the other hand, the Speed Freeks models rekindled my interest in Orks (right before the prices killed it again ).
Jidmah already stated what I wanted to say regarding how people who think the Ork boy range looks dated or ugly probably doesn't like the Ork range in general when Lootas, Burna Boyz, stormboyz and a bunch of other units use the same build and aesthetic. More importantly, you noted that the prices are what killed your interest in Orks when it came to the Speed Freeks models, which only highlights me and Jidmah's points. Doesn't matter how much you like a revamped kit, if a new boyz kit cost upwards of $65-70 a box for a unit of 10 boyz, would you start a new army when you need 90+ models of those guys to make them worth taking in lists? In what way is this inviting at all to new players interested in Orks? New Ork players already struggle to make a meaningful Ork army when they start off with the bare minimum to run a detachment and a non-functional Start Collecting! Ork box set, so I can only imagine even fewer people wanting to start Orks if they continue the "new premium models, new premium prices" philosophy for updated kits.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: "Everyone already has loads of them" is the reason they might update them. If existing players aren't buying more of them, and they're an essential unit for new players yet have a poor aesthetic compared to more recent releases, it'd be a good reason for an update.
Can we stop this flawed logic? If that were the case, they definitely should not start orks at all, because almost all models have the same poor aesthetic. Because they look the exact same as boyz.
It's not really flawed logic because I wouldn't say "almost all models", I think they've gradually been improving the Ork kits and the basic Boyz are now one of the weaker kits in the range.
For me it's whether or not the muscles look realistic (or maybe I should say "feasible" since Orks aren't really "real" to begin with, lol) and the posing of the arms looks awkward, it has similar issues to the Catachan kit. A lot of the more recent Ork kits don't have the same issues as the regular Boyz. And some of the models which have poses fixed by the weapons they're carrying are also less of an eyesore.
Hell, the current Boyz kit isn't even particularly cheap They're more expensive than most of the 20 man kits that have come out in recent years and given how many you need, they should probably be in a 20 man kit also.
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Grimskul wrote: Doesn't matter how much you like a revamped kit, if a new boyz kit cost upwards of $65-70 a box for a unit of 10 boyz....
$65-70 for 10 run of the mill basic Boyz would be insane even by GW's standards, that'd make the common Boy more expensive than a Primaris which would just be stupid.
I've said before in this thread a few times, if GW are going to make new Boyz they need to price them reasonably, and there's kits in recent times which have shown GW can do a 20 man kit for $60-70, which makes them cheaper than the current Boyz (which are $72 for 20).
I know we all like to shudder at GW's prices, but they HAVE released some select kits for non-insane prices in recent years.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: "Everyone already has loads of them" is the reason they might update them. If existing players aren't buying more of them, and they're an essential unit for new players yet have a poor aesthetic compared to more recent releases, it'd be a good reason for an update.
Can we stop this flawed logic? If that were the case, they definitely should not start orks at all, because almost all models have the same poor aesthetic. Because they look the exact same as boyz.
It's not really flawed logic because I wouldn't say "almost all models", I think they've gradually been improving the Ork kits and the basic Boyz are now one of the weaker kits in the range.
For me it's whether or not the muscles look realistic (or maybe I should say "feasible" since Orks aren't really "real" to begin with, lol) and the posing of the arms looks awkward, it has similar issues to the Catachan kit. A lot of the more recent Ork kits don't have the same issues as the regular Boyz. And some of the models which have poses fixed by the weapons they're carrying are also less of an eyesore.
Sorry, but you're just flat out wrong on this, no room for interpretation. The only models with the updated aesthetics you are looking for are the buggies, Thrakka and the new pain boy. That's eight out of 40+ ork kits.
You also keep ignoring how the boyz sculpt is used in multiple kits.
Hell, the current Boyz kit isn't even particularly cheap They're more expensive than most of the 20 man kits that have come out in recent years and given how many you need, they should probably be in a 20 man kit also.
Remember when night goblins in WFB changed in size in comparison to the ugly Brian Nelson gorilla night goblins ? It was the same here with orks, people complained about how they invalidated their old collection. Because yes, they look awful put together in the same army.
The same appears with old sisters of battle mixed with the new (when you add the new Zephyrim, for example)...the difference is clear.
If you have a full collection of the old models and only use them, it's fine. It's when you mix them together in the same army that it doesn't look as good.
But personnally, I would still be glad to see an updated ork kit replacing these ugly Brian Nelson gorilla models finally.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I've said before in this thread a few times, if GW are going to make new Boyz they need to price them reasonably, and there's kits in recent times which have shown GW can do a 20 man kit for $60-70, which makes them cheaper than the current Boyz (which are $72 for 20).
They won't price them resonably, and there is no reason to believe so. 55-60 USD are definitely a price that is rather common among similar sized models (see CSM or SoB).
Would you buy ork boyz at 55-60 USD?
I know we all like to shudder at GW's prices, but they HAVE released some select kits for non-insane prices in recent years.
Considering that you even think that buggies are too expensive, what did you think was reasonably priced? Box sets not allowed.
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Sarouan wrote: But personnally, I would still be glad to see an updated ork kit replacing these ugly Brian Nelson gorilla models finally.
They won't be sold $500 each kit of 10 boyz, you know.
If you're talking about investment for a whole army of orks...I'm pretty sure the current line forces you to spend you that amount already, if not much more. It's not because someone started them in the 90 and build his collection as years pass on that it makes them "cheaper" in the end. Inflation matters as well.
Besides, since I sold my full collection of metal sisters of battle (with more than 300 models and that were way more expensive than the current sisters in plastic anyway) and bought the new sisters in plastic anew...I guess my answer will be "yes", anyway.
Just a matter of perspective and how you decide to build your collection. GW miniatures are unneeded and useless outside of the Hobby, anyway. And I know my collection is most likely to end in a bin or sold at not even a tenth of its value when I will die. Will still spend the money when I'm alive.
"Everyone already has loads of them" is the reason they might update them. If existing players aren't buying more of them, and they're an essential unit for new players yet have a poor aesthetic compared to more recent releases, it'd be a good reason for an update.
Current boyz aesthetics is perfect, they look extremely better compared to ANY existing SM model, including (especially?) the modern kits.
The point is if the new kit doesn't invalidate the older one and players already have tons of those models, they won't buy it. Simple. I know I won't. Or maybe they'd but a single kit just to do some conversions. If they do invalidate it, people could be angry and avoid buying it anyway. Not everyone is a SM player who is willing to re-buy his entire army over and over again.
GW wants to grab money from ork players? Give us something new, like a medium tank, a flying transport, grot specialists, or a few characters or update all the finecast/metal kits like koptas, kommandos, tankbustas, zagstruk, snikrot, mad dok. Replace the current mek gunz with an updated one that includes three mek gunz for a slightly higher price (killa kanz set has the same amount of plastic of 3 mek gunz and costs the same of a single mek gun): I bet people would buy it immediately. An updated ork boyz kit is the last thing orks players need and probably want.
Besides, since I sold my full collection of metal sisters of battle (with more than 300 models and that were way more expensive than the current sisters in plastic anyway) and bought the new sisters in plastic anew...I guess my answer will be "yes", anyway.
Metal sisters were identical monopose dudes, any ork army is likely to be highly customized. I built 180 boyz that are all different just by exploiting the combinations from the regular kit, some kitbashing from other ork kits, some kitbashing from fantasy orc and goblins kits and 40ish models from Assault on Black Reach, which have a different pose than regular ones.
I'd also sell metal sisters in order to get the new plastic ones if I had a classic sister army.
I have in my head that the basic Ork models are still great and don't need replacing, it's mainly characters, and some older kits that are now showing their age as well as not being plastic.
However, all you need to do is look at the orruks from AoS to realise their is so much more potential in the likes of ork boyz etc. I'd be in favour of carefully made upgrade kits for Ork Boyz, and then going all in on some mega knobs, kommandos and the like that are still resin, and now also undersized. Mega Knobs should be massive, bigger than an aggressor.
I'm not a fan of updating kits for the sake of updating them, when there are some serious contenders in the hobby for needing a full revamp of infantry models in the range such as Eldar (though guardians still look good! Maybe they could be a little more dynamic with a new kit but the aesthetic is still great) and Imperial guard which now desperately need new kits as they are the worse looking models in the game... When you see what they have done with necromunda, you realise how much potential there is for human models.
Anyway, yeah, ork boyz don't need touching other than maybe upgrade spues to make them more klan specific. If GW really wants to upgrade them, they should be bottom of the pile of most armies/factions or close to it.
Albertorius wrote: Honestly, I don't know if there's a better way of souring me off orks than going the orruk route.
You may not like the aesthetic as a whole, but there's no denying they look more dynamic, savage and most importantly, got the scale for the big guys correct.
Jidmah wrote: Nice try, but $500 would be the price for a basic battalion (3x troops) worth of boyz plus some primer, not a single other model included.
Comparing metal sisters to plastic orks isn't even in the ballpark of apples to oranges anymore...
Try to deflect as much as you want and not answer the rest of my post, I don't care.
You have your view, I have mine. We won't change them, anyway.
Metal sisters were identical monopose dudes, any ork army is likely to be highly customized. I built 180 boyz that are all different just by exploiting the combinations from the regular kit, some kitbashing from other ork kits, some kitbashing from fantasy orc and goblins kits and 40ish models from Assault on Black Reach, which have a different pose than regular ones.
I'd also sell metal sisters in order to get the new plastic ones if I had a classic sister army.
Yeah, they were monopose. And metal, which sucks hard for conversion, should I add.
Orks will still be in plastic and thus easy to convert as well. Well...for those who didn't buy the metal models, that is (I still remember those, I'm that old ).
You'd still be able to use parts from other kits. Some may look weirder because of the different proportions, but hey orks don't stop at that kind of details, do they ?
However, I'll be honest here : when you have a horde of 120 boyz, I think players who do indeed convert every single one of them are more an exception than the rule. When your miniatures are drowned in the mass, you don't stop at details as much as you would with your characters or center pieces. So I don't believe it's that big a deal for basic troops.
Besides, with old kits, the "diversity" generally implies an arm raised instead of being lowered, a different head and a right leg in front instead of the left. Old boyz all have the same general pose in the end - without conversions. Just because you can put the head looking in a different direction doesn't really change that.
Looking more dynamic isn't always good. I love several models that are extremely static, like Ulrik the Slayer. Old Lelith is way less dynamic than the new one and yet I conisder that model much much better than the new one.
Scale isn't an issue, I despise huge infantry models for example. A current Meganob is IMHO already big, and previous Ghaz was massive. Primaris/gravis dudes are so big that they look stupid and they're less fun to paint.
Current orruks are definitely too big for my tastes.
If those more dynamic models are also monopose then is a complete NO for me.
Besides, with old kits, the "diversity" generally implies an arm raised instead of being lowered, a different head and a right leg in front instead of the left. Old boyz all have the same general pose in the end - without conversions. Just because you can put the head looking in a different direction doesn't really change that.
Yeah, but a neutral pose is good if you need tons of bodies. I mean all shoota boyz have the same pose but they're perfect as they are. There are 30+ heads that can fit their bodies and that alone could be enough to properly differentiate the models.
Now imagine 10 shoota boyz with unique poses, they'd look awful in large squads due to duplicating dynamic poses. Poxwalkers are the perfect example, they all look quite unique but they're also just 10 dudes that can't be customized unless doing some real hard work, which is bad since they're a unit that is supposed to be an horde.
Now imagine 10 shoota boyz with unique poses, they'd look awful in large squads due to duplicating dynamic poses. Poxwalkers are the perfect example, they all look quite unique but they're also just 10 dudes that can't be customized unless doing some real hard work, which is bad since they're a unit that is supposed to be an horde.
Usually, every body has a specific set of arms designed to work with it, but saying it's hard work to change that...they're plastic in the end, it's the same than the old kits when you try to change the gorilla pose without breaking the back spine or want to put a different angle to the arms. It's work, yes, but not a big deal as well.
The real question is : is it worth it for troops that you can align a hundred or so ? I think the answer will be the same than for the old boyz and zombies : "no".
They could look really good, and even if you had a horde of 50 they'd still look good.
Would they still look good if you had a horde of 90 or 120? Because that's about what an average ork army is running these days. I know my plague marines looked horrible when I brought two blocks of 20 because of all the repeat models.
Plague Marines only have a few poses I think?
10 poses between DI and the ETB set, which make the bulk of my army, another 7 from two plague marine boxes, plus one set of Space Marine Heros. In theory I could get another 3 poses by buying the reinforcements set, but there are better things to spend money on.
The models that stick out are those which aren't just standing and holding their weapon in front of them, but those which are in a grenade throwing or running pose, or those with a unique weapon sticking out.
On the Plague Marines. As it’s not too many, I converted all mind to allow no repeats.
7DI, 7DV (with minor converting), 7 Multi, 3 ETB, plus like the single champion and icon bearer. It’s about 26 not counting the SM Heroes unbuilt as yet.
Then two more ETB sets and one more Multi part, that’s 13 that I had to convert up, which wasn’t too bad, the ETB have all the cool bits from the Multi part to vary them, the kit needed a bit of imagination, but was pretty easy.
My boyz, well first they were done a long time ago. But in the masses, it was just try to out a different head and weapon combo on every body possible, and when I got to repeats, different colour browns for the clothes
Albertorius wrote: Honestly, I don't know if there's a better way of souring me off orks than going the orruk route.
You may not like the aesthetic as a whole, but there's no denying they look more dynamic, savage and most importantly, got the scale for the big guys correct.
I would say there is totally denying it, yes. The big orruks don't particularly look more dynamic to me in the least; the only thing the look like is more human. Which is kind of exactly the opposite of what I want.
Plus, "dynamic" is not "better" by default. It's another aesthetic option.
aracersss wrote: SoD warband for AoS Underworlds is in feb. Maybe lizardmen for Match, and SoulBlight for April. It leaves BoneSplitterz for May possibly. Maybe a shared month for a 40k ork surprise?
Well we know the full release schedule for Underworlds. But they are the side releases anyway so won’t take away from something else’s release such as a main line game. Even an AoS release doesn’t stop a 40k one. Particularly as March is back to 4 week releases (currently anyway).
Having seen the Ork coin I’d imagine it’s sooner rather than later.
April is the next unknown coin slot is it, so maybe then. May if stuff is pushed back a bit from the start of the year.
Jidmah wrote: Nice try, but $500 would be the price for a basic battalion (3x troops) worth of boyz plus some primer, not a single other model included.
Comparing metal sisters to plastic orks isn't even in the ballpark of apples to oranges anymore...
Starting Orks is unreasonable already for a brand new player, making it more expensive won't change it much really. Like, if I were a brand new person, why would I ever go for the army that costs 2 or 3x more than say, marines of SoB or any other non-horde army? Horde armies from GW right now are inherently bad value for money.
Jidmah wrote: Nice try, but $500 would be the price for a basic battalion (3x troops) worth of boyz plus some primer, not a single other model included.
Comparing metal sisters to plastic orks isn't even in the ballpark of apples to oranges anymore...
Starting Orks is unreasonable already for a brand new player, making it more expensive won't change it much really. Like, if I were a brand new person, why would I ever go for the army that costs 2 or 3x more than say, marines of SoB or any other non-horde army? Horde armies from GW right now are inherently bad value for money.
Yeah, agree. If they re-do boyz they absolutely have to tackle this issue at the same time. If the rules heavily encourage running mobs of 30, those mobs can't cost significantly more money than units of 10 intercessors.
But let's get real, they are charging $70 for a unit of 20 push-fit poxwalkers, $108 for 30 boyz is the best we're going to get. Unless they re-do the models, of course, then it gets worse.
Of course, they could do a heavily discounted combat patrol box, but we all know it's not going to have 30 boyz in it.
Jidmah wrote: Nice try, but $500 would be the price for a basic battalion (3x troops) worth of boyz plus some primer, not a single other model included.
Comparing metal sisters to plastic orks isn't even in the ballpark of apples to oranges anymore...
Starting Orks is unreasonable already for a brand new player, making it more expensive won't change it much really. Like, if I were a brand new person, why would I ever go for the army that costs 2 or 3x more than say, marines of SoB or any other non-horde army? Horde armies from GW right now are inherently bad value for money.
True, I would not have started Orks in 8th edition if I didn't already have most of an army from 5th edition.
I have a full time job in IT and no family to support, and I still think that spending that much on toy soldiers is a bit insane.
You think insta-invalidating every Marine army on the planet overnight would have been 'less awkward'.
Look, I know you love your Primaris Marines with every fibre of your body, but don't try to pretend that a wholesale replacement of all the Marines at the start of 8th would have been a big nothing for everyone. That would have been major. The biggest shakeup since AoS. Potentially bigger, even, given that Marines outsell everything else GW does.
I am talking about visual update. In this model Intercessors would have just been a new look of tacticals etc.
And with the orks no one has called for changing the rules so that the old models are no longer playable, merely updating the models to look better. Nothing would be 'invalidated' except if the player decides to replace their entire collection with the new models, but that would be a personal choice.
Many factions have very old and outdated basic troop kits, orks among them. I think that having the basic troops to be great looking is one of the most important factors for getting people to start an new army. If the models you need to build and paint the greatest amount look like crap, then a lot of people will not be interested.
Jidmah wrote: How can a set be outdated if it share visuals with almost the entire army?
The visuals of most of the army are outdated. Same than with the IG.
Uh-huh. The last models release with those visuals are from 2014, which was the 7th edition big wave. I'd even argue some of the buggy crew does as well.
In other words, you simply don't like how orks look, and changing boyz won't change gak about that.
Jidmah wrote: Nice try, but $500 would be the price for a basic battalion (3x troops) worth of boyz plus some primer, not a single other model included.
Comparing metal sisters to plastic orks isn't even in the ballpark of apples to oranges anymore...
Starting Orks is unreasonable already for a brand new player, making it more expensive won't change it much really. Like, if I were a brand new person, why would I ever go for the army that costs 2 or 3x more than say, marines of SoB or any other non-horde army? Horde armies from GW right now are inherently bad value for money.
Agree, horde armies are big problem in gw by now. In fact i only play and/or collect warband or sort of .
Anyway regarding ork models whatever will ever happen someone will be disappointed: me, being an ork lover since 2004, im in desperately need of some new ork infantry... i really dont understand people who are happy to stay with the same model after all this years but is totally fine everyone is different and have different need. But a change is inevitable, gw must sell and like others said they cannot sell things or models everyone had in BIG BIG quantity. Sooner or layer ork boyz must change, i hope soon lol .
Essentially this thread is full of people who don't like orks in the first place, don't play them, don't even know ork models in detail, but still want them to be changed to something different. Meanwhile, all the people who do play orks and know the range well don't want any new boyz.
Which brings me back to my original post on this topic - only people who don't play orks and/or have no clue what they are talking about wish for new ork boyz.
Jidmah wrote: Essentially this thread is full of people who don't like orks in the first place, don't play them, don't even know ork models in detail, but still want them to be changed to something different.
Meanwhile, all the people who play orks and know the range well don't want any boyz.
Which brings me back to my original post on this topic - only people who don't play orks and/or have no clue what they are talking about wish for new ork boyz.
I have had every kit ever released and collect/convert/paint dont know ho many orks, 2 fulls army over the year, play and collect even now old gorkamorka. I like current ork but want some new anyway. In which category do you put me?
Jidmah wrote: How can a set be outdated if it share visuals with almost the entire army?
The visuals of most of the army are outdated. Same than with the IG.
You clearly have a problem with orks and IG visuals, that's fine. I think the worst ork model is 10000 times better than any primars model, but I acknowledge it's only my opinion.
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Jidmah wrote: Essentially this thread is full of people who don't like orks in the first place, don't play them, don't even know ork models in detail, but still want them to be changed to something different.
Meanwhile, all the people who do play orks and know the range well don't want any new boyz.
Which brings me back to my original post on this topic - only people who don't play orks and/or have no clue what they are talking about wish for new ork boyz.
Yeah mostly marine players who would like every other army to look like marine armies .
GW just released the OBR infantry at $60 per 20, so there's a slight chance of something like that being the way forward for horde armies. Not holding my breath, but there is a possibility. And that would be $12 cheaper than the current boyz kit, though might mean the loss of the "free" nob (a trade I would make, as the squat nob looks terrible in comparison to the freestanding kit). Even if it was $70 and we lost the mini-nob, that's still a pretty good deal by GW's standards for a new kit.
If they redid the sprue and kept the basic look, just updating things for ease of use and better plastic tech, I'd be happy. I'd probably get some just for variety or to splash out on some fancier mobs, even though there'd obviously be some visual shift (just between the sculptors, if nothing else). I'm probably good on the current kit, though, as I have a couple hundred of those boyz.
Legs+backs and swappable fronts would be nice compromise, as the ball joint rarely fits nicely and really doesn't give you much in the way of useful posing options that couldn't otherwise be achieved. I'd be fine with integrated shoulders, even at the cost of some compatibility, since I doubt it'd be too hard to snip some elbows/shoulders to get those spare burnas to fit. Full mono-pose would be a mistake, but that seems pretty unlikely.
Though I did convert a bunch of the 4th(?) ed whfb starter orcs (who were literally single pieces) into boyz, as it's really not hard to saw a straight line at the shoulder or do a weapon swap, so even that wouldn't be the end of the world.
What I'd be really afraid of was a loss of options. Boyz could really do with a few old options coming back (like the burna/bc).
Still, at the end of the day there are much more pressing needs in the ork lineup than boyz. Lets get the finecast and missing models updated first. Hopefully including a chinork, so I can use my various looted flyers again.
Sarouan wrote: Remember when night goblins in WFB changed in size in comparison to the ugly Brian Nelson gorilla night goblins ? It was the same here with orks, people complained about how they invalidated their old collection. Because yes, they look awful put together in the same army.
The same appears with old sisters of battle mixed with the new (when you add the new Zephyrim, for example)...the difference is clear.
If you have a full collection of the old models and only use them, it's fine. It's when you mix them together in the same army that it doesn't look as good.
But personnally, I would still be glad to see an updated ork kit replacing these ugly Brian Nelson gorilla models finally.
Those Brian Nelson night goblins were SO much more characterful than the current night goblin kit, give me a break. The current night gobbo box sacrifices character for smaller size, and looks even more "samey" when you have a ton of them on the field. At least Nelson's night goblins had faces with great expressions.
Personally I hope we get updates. Worse case I buy more Kromlech bodies and bits and make Ork Boyz out of those if the GW Models are trash but I've liked every update I've seen so far, for orks anyway.
I'd love a proper tank, I have a gunwagon (and almost every model in the entire range too think of it, save some of the new buggies and two of the flyers.) but I wish they'd give us a proper tank or true rules for looted wagon that can be used in matched play. Then again, most of our range has some sort of answer for nearly anything, aside from rules adjustments to make things work. TBH a regular Kill Kannon should not be 24 inch range...
H.B.M.C. wrote: Aren't the Nobz and Flash Gitz kits completely interchangeable?
Due to the way ork arms are cut, nob wargear is interchangeable between almost all the nobz, including flash gits, warbiker and boyz squad leaders, the nob with warbanner as well as the old metal painboy (not sure about the new one).
A clever ork payer can buy a box of nobz and use the excess bits of the flash gits box to turn the combi-shootas in there into five additional flash gits.
Don't even need a Gitz kit, just raid the bitz box for parts to snazz up a kombi-shoota into something a self respecting Flash Git would throw a large sum of teef at. All of my "Gitz" are made from proper Nobz and its just about half the price to do so than with the Gitz kit.
That said one of the real strength of the Ork product line is how interchangeable all the models are with being able to build from a set of Boyz legs (the part you run out of the fastest) Tankbustas, Kommandos, Burna Boyz, Lootas, Meks, Stormboyz (not quite as cool as the proper kit) or regular/special weapon boyz while you can make Nobz (being legs + torso) into Gitz, Painboyz, Big Meks, or Nobz (including the squad leader nobz for all the boy based units). On top of that being able to use the weapons from either kit on Biker Boyz or with some of the extra Ork models found on vehicles.
GW's current focus on making these hard to kitbash sculpts could very well disrupt the flexibility and ability to kitbash which would be a grave disservice to customers if they took way that modularity in the same of "dynamic poses".
...don't get me wrong, I love the current Orkboys, but I do send everyone of them to the Chiropract-ork 
