As for these specific ones, I don't know about the others, but it seems odd to remove Sister-Captain Artemis. Deathwatch doesn't have a huge range but GW wants them to be seen as a standalone army. Yet here they happily decrease the already limited options you have while the model is out of rotation.
Maybe they need warehouse space/manufacturing capacity and Marine special characters are not selling well enough if they start with them, while still having a huge Marine range players can fall back on. So, perhaps a little gain for GW with the least possible backlash from the fans.
1 - most of them are Finecast. Gossip has hinted that they're keen on binning finecast, so getting rid of it make sense, doubly so if they can bring them back in metal at a later date whilst saving face PR. 2 - the cynic in me is says this is another opportunity to exploit FOMO. Annoucement that they're pseudo-retiring them (to drive sales) and then, later on, bring them back for a Limited Time™ only!
Corvus Belli has been doing this due to space and production constraints. I'd bet that GW is now feeling that too and went with some stuff with low sales.
Or it could be some sort of conspiracy to get you to buy something you don't need and you don't have to do and are a willing participant in.
2 - the cynic in me is says this is another opportunity to exploit FOMO. Annoucement that they're pseudo-retiring them (to drive sales) and then, later on, bring them back for a Limited Time™ only!
This is definitely one of the reasons. It is also true that the rate of releases has increased massively in the last few years. A lack of warehouse space is definitely a contributing factor to the existence of fomo boxes. If rotating models out of the range allows them to produce the box sets in slightly larger quantities it could be a bit of good thing.
Interesting idea. I wonder how much this will grow over time.
The Warhammer 40,000 range is huge, like really huge, just as you might expect from a game with such a grand setting. In fact, it’s so big that we just can’t keep everything in stock all the time – which means that certain units will become part of a rotating range.
Every single model going into "rotation" is a Space Marine and the vast majority are HQ models
Apparently it's a huge range if you play Space Marines as they're the only line with so many HQ options that 12 named characters can be put into "rotation" without that meaning that your entire HQ selection, of all subfactions for your army, was just obliterated.
Just wait to see if some of these begin to cross the Rubicon...or get killed off in stories. This might not be the Order 66 of the First Born, but we are up to Order 65.7 at least
Only so much warehouse space, and can only manufacture so many different kits. None of the things going on rotation I'd imagine are huge sellers, so makes sense to me.
I'm sure some folks will be outraged, but that happens with every announcement gw makes.
I do wonder how this will work moving forward, and what kits will be included. Doesn't fuss me so much that it's all one off classic characters and resin kits. Lots of stuff you can kit-bash with plastics.
I don't think this is the sign of the end for firstborn in the game. Just happens that firstborn marines have a lot of random old kits.
As the article has said, it's been happening with the Middle-Earth range for a while now. Doesn't really affect much as it typically targets secondary characters and pieces like that. Which is what's happening with all these named marine characters and specialist bits.
- Start with Marines to avoid PR disaster from Chaos/Xenos players.
- With a nod towards equality, rotate out Chaos and Xenos models in similar numbers.
- Chaos and Xenos have fewer kits to begin with and are affected to a greater degree than Marines with their vast range.
- Wailing and gnashing of teeth will commence, while Marine fans point to how GW treats everyone fairly and equally.
- Marines still have more options and a broader range than anyone and nothing is gained.
Your assertion is very optimistic. At best nothing changes. At worst GW manages to antagonize its varying customer groups even further.
"These miniatures will be rotated out on the 27th of February, so you have until then to grab any that you might have missed. We guarantee that anyone who orders one of these kits before then will get one.
So if you want to complete your collection, head to Games-Workshop.com and pick them up now."
WarhammerCommunity wrote:They'll just be leaving the range for a while, but they'll return in the future, most likely alongside a relevant release such as a new Codex or Campaign Book. It is of course possible some of these heroes could return as updated models in future too.
Makes sense in a way. No model there is exactly high in the sales charts for GWId bet.
Give it a year or two and they will be back as Made to Order for a nice sales boost for items that are currently gathering dust and taking up space in the warehouse.
Personally nothing on that list to panic buy (Im currently building a Crimson Fist army and not too worried about missing out on Kantor).
Terrain already rotates a lot doesn't it? Like they release then its sold out then vanishes then comes back on another box set, then sold out... vanishes.... another...
I tell you this, the harder they make me to buy the things I want, WHEN I want the less they get my business.
Good luck for the guy that plays these games and needs a mini that is rotating when he builds his new army.
"They're not being squated, they're being rotated out, it's completely different you salty doomsayers!!!"
Sure if you say something repeatedly for years it should eventually happen.
I fully expect one day as the asteroid looms overhead someone will rush to Dakka Dakka and triumphantly post "I was right! GW stopped selling the old marines!"
Spoiler:
of course these are explicitly returning at some point later, so no dice today
"They're not being squated, they're being rotated out, it's completely different you salty doomsayers!!!"
Sure if you say something repeatedly for years it should eventually happen.
I fully expect one day as the asteroid looms overhead someone will rush to Dakka Dakka and triumphantly post "I was right! GW stopped selling the old marines!"
Spoiler:
of course these are explicitly returning at some point later, so no dice today
I see the narrative's shifting just as expected. Now we're going from, "GW would NEVER squat Firstborn!" and into the "Um it was obviously going to happen eventually, it's YOUR fault for not seeing it coming!" mode eh?
StraightSilver wrote:Hmmm, don't quite know what to make of this.
I can totally understand rotating ranges in bricks and mortar stores, but removing them even from the online store seems strange.
Especially given they have opened a huge new distribution hub and warehouse space.
But, it's not a huge amount of models, and the only one that surprised me is watch captain Artemis, but I guess they don't sell that many.
I wouldn't have minded more than 2 weeks notice but I suppose at least they are telling us.
It's almost certainly to reduce the number of SKUs (separate catalog items) they have to maintain. Even with an in house distribution hub and warehouse, logistics and warehousing is an enormous expenditure for any company which has resulted in most large modern companies to transition into holding the lowest maintainable levels of stock for all of their products.
The problem with having too many SKUs is that it takes up more physical warehousing space (you need to keep different products separated to prevent/reduce errors by warehouse workers), increases shipping expenses (because less popular SKUs likely won't be maintained by smaller local distribution hubs but can be ordered at any time by customers), and strains production (because they have to balance trying to produce upcoming and popular products against those that are less popular and rarely ordered). And if you can't maintain that dance then it's a bad look to customers because they'll see numerous products constantly out of stock or not be able to receive their orders as quickly if you don't expedite shipping on non-locally stored products.
Plus this isn't just about 40k, it also has to do with AoS, Hobbit, and all Boxed Games. Right now GW is expanding their offerings beyond their standard mainline games which means there's also a fan expectation for those other games to keep growing as well. So GW have to make a choice to either start reducing the expansion of other games in order to keep all legacy mainline game options or cut the fat off of 40k in order for Boxed games, Old World, (possibly plastic) Horus Heresy to have space to grow.
AoS is likely resistant to this as GW rotated out a lot of old Fantasy kits at the birth of AoS, but things like Chaos Marauders could get removed and have a Warcry warband promoted in their place.
I see the narrative's shifting just as expected. Now we're going from, "GW would NEVER squat Firstborn!" and into the "Um it was obviously going to happen eventually, it's YOUR fault for not seeing it coming!" mode eh?
Unfortunately the "narrative" exists entirely within your head here. I've yet to see anyone claim that firstborn marines would be sold indefinitely, only disagree that they would be binned immediately as some have been claiming since 2017.
I have however seen many people claim that Firstborn would be dropped in the 8.5 marine codex, then the 9E codex, and so on...
So GW is binning off a bunch of low sales items to simplify inventory. I’ll believe the rotation nonsense when any of these come back. I’d bet heavily that the fine cast stuff on this list is gone for good.
Tamereth wrote: So GW is binning off a bunch of low sales items to simplify inventory. I’ll believe the rotation nonsense when any of these come back. I’d bet heavily that the fine cast stuff on this list is gone for good.
Aye, only problem is when rulebooks for that specific army have that finecast model entry. They did not update the mini to plastic, they just put it on the rotating box and hide it for when they see it fit.
Its like selling a chess game but you cant buy all the pieces you need to play.
2022 price rise, rotating minis... lets see the next one...
Aye, only problem is when rulebooks for that specific army have that finecast model entry. They did not update the mini to plastic, they just put it on the rotating box and hide it for when they see it fit.
Its like selling a chess game but you cant buy all the pieces you need to play.
Another way to look at it is that all of those units being removed can easily be proxied/converted using existing plastic kits. I can imagine after the cut-off date that is what the response will be at GW stores when someone asks about one of these models. Yeah, a kitbash of Lukas wont look anywhere near as good as the original goofy grinning model, but overall I suspect the impact will be trivial to customers.
Nothing new - they've been doing this to the Dark Eldar for years; it just hasn't been the right time to pull them back out of the Disney Vault.
"You will not be missed" comes to mind about this deal anyways. So long as they don't start doing the rotation to an entire faction, I don't think most people will even notice.
GW has already been effectively doing this for a while for less popular factions, just less formally- there was a span of about a year where GW just was not selling Carnifexes.
Better to announce what will be unavailable and then, theoretically, keep the rest in stock.
Turnip Jedi wrote: maybe if we pretend 3d Printers don't exist hard enough....
Honestly, what does this even have to do with the topic at all? "Oh noes people are buying 3d printers, better stop selling our old finecast models, that'll show them!"
Stormonu wrote: Nothing new - they've been doing this to the Dark Eldar for years; it just hasn't been the right time to pull them back out of the Disney Vault.
"You will not be missed" comes to mind about this deal anyways. So long as they don't start doing the rotation to an entire faction, I don't think most people will even notice.
If the reason given was that they reached saturation point wait until theres no more finecast... specially if they increase SKUs with the new stuff as much as they do these days.
Hummm that x plastic kit is not selling as much as y... into the rotation box.
Point is not these specific selected models look ugly and we can proxy... problem is soon enough you will have GW selling you new plastics on its release to then bin it on the rotating box because thats a thing they can do now. Keeping you buying new things ASAP just in case they vanish. We all know armies are expensive and you spread the shopping of it for a couple years. No can do.
Buy it now because they can rotate soon, is what they are trying to pull off.
NAVARRO wrote: If the reason given was that they reached saturation point wait until theres no more finecast... specially if they increase SKUs with the new stuff as much as they do these days.
Hummm that x plastic kit is not selling as much as y... into the rotation box.
Point is not these specific selected models look ugly and we can proxy... problem is soon enough you will have GW selling you new plastics on its release to then bin it on the rotating box because thats a thing they can do now. Keeping you buying new things ASAP just in case they vanish. We all know armies are expensive and you spread the shopping of it for a couple years. No can do.
Buy it now because they can rotate soon, is what they are trying to pull off.
Ooo, devious. Thinking further, it fits in with 40k seasons. You can only use these specific models with these rules in season 6 and nothing else allowed. Then it's either to the rotation bin or discontinued altogether when season 7 hits
Stormonu wrote: Nothing new - they've been doing this to the Dark Eldar for years; it just hasn't been the right time to pull them back out of the Disney Vault.
"You will not be missed" comes to mind about this deal anyways. So long as they don't start doing the rotation to an entire faction, I don't think most people will even notice.
If the reason given was that they reached saturation point wait until theres no more finecast... specially if they increase SKUs with the new stuff as much as they do these days.
Hummm that x plastic kit is not selling as much as y... into the rotation box.
Point is not these specific selected models look ugly and we can proxy... problem is soon enough you will have GW selling you new plastics on its release to then bin it on the rotating box because thats a thing they can do now. Keeping you buying new things ASAP just in case they vanish. We all know armies are expensive and you spread the shopping of it for a couple years. No can do.
Buy it now because they can rotate soon, is what they are trying to pull off.
It's a clever plan if people end up buying into the new world order it brings. Otherwise it will amount to nothing but lost sales.
They can rotate as much as they want, but if people have to kitbash then that will become the norm. Hell, even 3rd party suppliers will just grab a chance to fill up what is missing.
1 - most of them are Finecast. Gossip has hinted that they're keen on binning finecast, so getting rid of it make sense, doubly so if they can bring them back in metal at a later date whilst saving face PR.
2 - the cynic in me is says this is another opportunity to exploit FOMO. Annoucement that they're pseudo-retiring them (to drive sales) and then, later on, bring them back for a Limited Time™ only!
Your inner cynic must be talking to mine. Or it just seems obvious.
Honestly, binning a bunch of SM characters, from the absolute horde of SM characters? I'm down for that. My only objection is bringing them back later and rotating out something that matters.
I find it strange people are seeing this as some big FOMO conspiracy when it's pretty normal for other model kit companies. I'm amazed that GW keep so many items in permanent stock it must be a night mare. Compare this to Airfix for example who have approximately 1,600 tools and currently have only about 240 lines on sale. GW on the other hand have 907 items currently listed as for sale on the GW store alone and that ignores FW. There must be many kits they only sell small amount of and it makes sense to concentrate those sales for slow selling items to free up resources for constant selling staples. Again using Airfix as an example you will always be able to buy a Spitfire or Lancaster from them but a Whirlwind or Stirling will only be rotated in and out of availability (sometimes for years at a time).
IMO none of this is really that worrying; I think a lot of these miniatures *may* eventually be heading towards Legends, but almost all of them can be fielded as perfectly legally counts-as.
I might have to grab one of those BA termie captains before they rotate..
I'll tell you what, I'll much prefer this sort of "rotation notice" compared to the old ways, where you go to GW online store to buy something, just to realize it's just become "no longer available online".. followed by disappearing from the store altogether without any warning or explanation.
Rune Priest. If I remember correctly a bunch of Space Wolf stuff got released just before 2nd edition, thus possibly making it the only RT era model still being sold.
I'm wrong. You can still get the original servitors.
Rune Priest. If I remember correctly a bunch of Space Wolf stuff got released just before 2nd edition, thus possibly making it the only RT era model still being sold.
Yeah - looking at Stuff of Legends Rune Priest is '92 and Corbulo is '94-ish.
Rune Priest. If I remember correctly a bunch of Space Wolf stuff got released just before 2nd edition, thus possibly making it the only RT era model still being sold.
Yeah - looking at Stuff of Legends Rune Priest is '92 and Corbulo is '94-ish.
Damn some people have really been stewing on that FOMO then lmao.
Tallonian4th wrote: I find it strange people are seeing this as some big FOMO conspiracy when it's pretty normal for other model kit companies. I'm amazed that GW keep so many items in permanent stock it must be a night mare. Compare this to Airfix for example who have approximately 1,600 tools and currently have only about 240 lines on sale. GW on the other hand have 907 items currently listed as for sale on the GW store alone and that ignores FW. There must be many kits they only sell small amount of and it makes sense to concentrate those sales for slow selling items to free up resources for constant selling staples. Again using Airfix as an example you will always be able to buy a Spitfire or Lancaster from them but a Whirlwind or Stirling will only be rotated in and out of availability (sometimes for years at a time).
Sure they do... although they have 5 publications no rules and no game attached as far as I can see.
Point being GW rulesets publications games is a huge business for GW and the game is to be played today with the relevant tokens minis it needs.
If this was just Modelling kits for display and collectors items fair enough its a contained kit.
Its Like airfix would sell you the Stirling but just some sprues since the remaining, needed sprues, would be on a rotation period. You cant assemble the kit and 40k cant be played.
Well it can, people are clever to adapt convert etc... it just got a lot harder.
I find this amazing that GW acknowledged they reached saturation point... yet Production capacity has increased... Keep on churning more of the primaris in all the rainbow colours and in some cases with DOUBLE skus (regiment multipart box set) and ( easy build sprues on starters and deals)
Imagine If Eldar did not got some plastic sugar recently and were stuck to the old finecast and metals? Rotating eldar.
WarhammerCommunity wrote: They'll just be leaving the range for a while, but they'll return in the future, most likely alongside a relevant release such as a new Codex or Campaign Book. It is of course possible some of these heroes could return as updated models in future too.
1) Warhammer Community won't have any solid info right now as to how these range rotations are going to happen. Just the broadstrokes--which is what they say in bold there. 2) Even if they knew that, say, Artemis was to get a Primaris version? They wouldn't post it.
It would be a contradiction if they were to say that "These models will be returning, unless they don't."
FWIW, the question they were replying to was someone in usual hyperbole mode about how Artemis was getting squatted.
Yeah, I can't fathom that one. He's a good candidate for converting into a DW Captain with Xenophase Blade (esp. the relic version that's D2 vs Xenos, what with all the tau and eldar invulnerable saves popping up), so I may have to pick him up.
Can't be because he's a Character model with only a 35CAD price tag, the SM Commander is only 30CAD (though out of stock).
Tallonian4th wrote: I find it strange people are seeing this as some big FOMO conspiracy when it's pretty normal for other model kit companies. I'm amazed that GW keep so many items in permanent stock it must be a night mare. Compare this to Airfix for example who have approximately 1,600 tools and currently have only about 240 lines on sale. GW on the other hand have 907 items currently listed as for sale on the GW store alone and that ignores FW. There must be many kits they only sell small amount of and it makes sense to concentrate those sales for slow selling items to free up resources for constant selling staples. Again using Airfix as an example you will always be able to buy a Spitfire or Lancaster from them but a Whirlwind or Stirling will only be rotated in and out of availability (sometimes for years at a time).
Sure they do... although they have 5 publications no rules and no game attached as far as I can see.
Point being GW rulesets publications games is a huge business for GW and the game is to be played today with the relevant tokens minis it needs.
If this was just Modelling kits for display and collectors items fair enough its a contained kit.
Its Like airfix would sell you the Stirling but just some sprues since the remaining, needed sprues, would be on a rotation period. You cant assemble the kit and 40k cant be played.
Well it can, people are clever to adapt convert etc... it just got a lot harder.
I find this amazing that GW acknowledged they reached saturation point... yet Production capacity has increased... Keep on churning more of the primaris in all the rainbow colours and in some cases with DOUBLE skus (regiment multipart box set) and ( easy build sprues on starters and deals)
Imagine If Eldar did not got some plastic sugar recently and were stuck to the old finecast and metals? Rotating eldar.
You don't need these exact models to play the game though. If they were, for example, rotating Knights but still allowed you to use them, I would get it, as those models would be hard to replace/convert in a fitting matter, and thus make it far harder to get appropriate models to use in game.
But Space Marine special characters are some of the easiest things to convert/kitbash, hell you don't even have to specifically be trying to convert the special character to have an appropriate model. Just say "This Watch Captain with a power sword is Artemis" and the vast majority of people won't bat an eye.
Tallonian4th wrote: I find it strange people are seeing this as some big FOMO conspiracy when it's pretty normal for other model kit companies. I'm amazed that GW keep so many items in permanent stock it must be a night mare. Compare this to Airfix for example who have approximately 1,600 tools and currently have only about 240 lines on sale. GW on the other hand have 907 items currently listed as for sale on the GW store alone and that ignores FW. There must be many kits they only sell small amount of and it makes sense to concentrate those sales for slow selling items to free up resources for constant selling staples. Again using Airfix as an example you will always be able to buy a Spitfire or Lancaster from them but a Whirlwind or Stirling will only be rotated in and out of availability (sometimes for years at a time).
Sure they do... although they have 5 publications no rules and no game attached as far as I can see.
Point being GW rulesets publications games is a huge business for GW and the game is to be played today with the relevant tokens minis it needs.
If this was just Modelling kits for display and collectors items fair enough its a contained kit.
Its Like airfix would sell you the Stirling but just some sprues since the remaining, needed sprues, would be on a rotation period. You cant assemble the kit and 40k cant be played.
Well it can, people are clever to adapt convert etc... it just got a lot harder.
I find this amazing that GW acknowledged they reached saturation point... yet Production capacity has increased... Keep on churning more of the primaris in all the rainbow colours and in some cases with DOUBLE skus (regiment multipart box set) and ( easy build sprues on starters and deals)
Imagine If Eldar did not got some plastic sugar recently and were stuck to the old finecast and metals? Rotating eldar.
You don't need these exact models to play the game though. If they were, for example, rotating Knights but still allowed you to use them, I would get it, as those models would be hard to replace/convert in a fitting matter, and thus make it far harder to get appropriate models to use in game.
But Space Marine special characters are some of the easiest things to convert/kitbash, hell you don't even have to specifically be trying to convert the special character to have an appropriate model. Just say "This Watch Captain with a power sword is Artemis" and the vast majority of people won't bat an eye.
Sorry to say this, but if you think these characters are the only things going into the Rotating mode, then thats not the case. According with what they said, these are only the first ones...
*The first miniatures to cycle out are a range of Space Marines named characters and units.*
Theres more to come and some may be or not easy to convert if thats your main pickle.
JohnnyHell wrote: Hey, works for Disney. Clearly stuff they get next to no sales on, they can rest them and then do a MTO run down the line to create FOMO.
Question would be did this work for GWLotr? I have not followed it for years now.
According to GW this is a thing with Lotr... anyone here knows if this is still a popular game range?
But Space Marine special characters are some of the easiest things to convert/kitbash, hell you don't even have to specifically be trying to convert the special character to have an appropriate model. Just say "This Watch Captain with a power sword is Artemis" and the vast majority of people won't bat an eye.
Not to mention the plethora of 3rd party developers who are more than willing to design new versions of these models and/or provide bits for.
Well I can imagine this being frustrating if you want something for a new project and find that its just been rotated out. Most people aren't going to hunt for things or buy them on the off chance they might want to pick up a model at some unknown point in the future.
Hopefully the number of rotated models is limited and doesn't really impact much other than a few special and older character models. I've no idea how this has impacted LOTR. Anybody care to share their experience of how it works for that game?
JohnnyHell wrote: Hey, works for Disney. Clearly stuff they get next to no sales on, they can rest them and then do a MTO run down the line to create FOMO.
Question would be did this work for GWLotr? I have not followed it for years now.
According to GW this is a thing with Lotr... anyone here knows if this is still a popular game range?
Yes, it's been happening for a few years now and is perfectly fine. When things rotate, it's usually seconday characters or bits that are used historically. Never core characters and units and the ranges still run perfectly fine.
JohnnyHell wrote: Hey, works for Disney. Clearly stuff they get next to no sales on, they can rest them and then do a MTO run down the line to create FOMO.
Question would be did this work for GWLotr? I have not followed it for years now. According to GW this is a thing with Lotr... anyone here knows if this is still a popular game range?
LotR is a bit different because a lot of the stuff that was rotated back in was previously just binned off without this sort of organised "we might bring it back into circulation" treatment. Instead GW decided to start rotating them in and out when they realised there was still a fanbase for MESBG. Naturally, it was taken a lot more positively because not many people likely had any expectation of that stuff coming back.
I see the narrative's shifting just as expected. Now we're going from, "GW would NEVER squat Firstborn!" and into the "Um it was obviously going to happen eventually, it's YOUR fault for not seeing it coming!" mode eh?
Unfortunately the "narrative" exists entirely within your head here. I've yet to see anyone claim that firstborn marines would be sold indefinitely, only disagree that they would be binned immediately as some have been claiming since 2017.
I have however seen many people claim that Firstborn would be dropped in the 8.5 marine codex, then the 9E codex, and so on...
Nonsense. You don't have to go back a year for every other Primaris discussing having people say "No way are GW squatting Firstborn." I've said a few times on these threads that's how the defence would swing. I'll throw "Well if you want to use Firstborn you can always play 30k" to my next prediction in a few years.
But Space Marine special characters are some of the easiest things to convert/kitbash, hell you don't even have to specifically be trying to convert the special character to have an appropriate model. Just say "This Watch Captain with a power sword is Artemis" and the vast majority of people won't bat an eye.
Not to mention the plethora of 3rd party developers who are more than willing to design new versions of these models and/or provide bits for.
Yeah thats the big positive side of this announcement. Not sure if that was what GW had in mind.
No rules, no models are out of the window. I wonder what will be GW store tournament policy regarding other companies proxies of minis they currently have on the Rotating loop. Legal right?
Edit: Well if its working for LOTR, even if expectations are different there, then this may work for 40k...
I think Kroot should be next on the list since no one plays them right?
To be honest, I’ve been expecting them to do something likes this for a while now. I also reckon that the pandemic has likely delayed implementing the changes but also highlighted the need for them.
I work in marketing for retail business and just before the pandemic started, I remember reading a pitch document for a data analysis/consultancy firm that mentioned Games Workshop as being a recent client. They were using them as a case study that they’d just started working together to consult on how best to streamline, manage and maintain such a large SKU count given the unique challenges of a business like GW & the typical product lifecycle. Wonder if this is in part an output of that, or something they’ve devised themselves.
It's almost like adding new stuff instead of resculpting old stuff and trying to keep all the old stuff in production is causing problems for manufacturing as well as problems for datasheet bloat.
Moria, for example, seems to be missing a sizeable chunk of their range. Basically all of their goblin variants are missing, for example.
Some of which are coming back this weekend - WarCom
Those aren't Prowlers or Blackshields. That is one generic shaman and some metal goblin warriors which are useful for goblin captains. Well, the sword and shield ones are.
WarhammerCommunity wrote:They'll just be leaving the range for a while, but they'll return in the future, most likely alongside a relevant release such as a new Codex or Campaign Book. It is of course possible some of these heroes could return as updated models in future too.
Nope not bothered by this. I mean GW gave up on 'everything from the dawn of time in stock forever (in Nottingham)' but around 2011, and we've seen terrain kits, IG metals and other models disappearing all the time. I too am very skeptical about these ever coming back, but that's fine.
No reasonable person can expect a toy company to keep everything in production forever, and others pointed out, 3D printers go BRRRRR.
Rune Priest. If I remember correctly a bunch of Space Wolf stuff got released just before 2nd edition, thus possibly making it the only RT era model still being sold.
I'm wrong. You can still get the original servitors.
Point of information! Those are not the original servitors. The originals came out with the original Rogue Trader adventurers. Those are the late RT servitors who came out with the SW Iron Priest at the same time as the Rune Priest. But yeah, both from 1993ish.
It'll be a mess if any of this stuff becomes good competitively before they bring it back. But I suspect that won't happen - and, if it does, they'll bring it back to great fanfare.
This is likely an effort to sell some stuff that's sitting around by leveraging FOMO IMO; there's not enough being rotated to suggest it's really about inventory management. If it goes well they'll keep doing it for other stuff they have that's sitting around not selling; if it doesn't I would expect this to quietly not happen again. There's a reason they're starting with the most popular faction.
I don't think that's a conspiracy theory. The moment the first Primaris Marines got released it felt to me like that's the Marines GW wants to sell from now on and build a huge range for those like the old Marines have/had. They made a lot of money from Marines and getting a second chance to do the same all over again is rare. They can't mess this up like the somewhat rocky start of AOS. I haven't paid attention to every release but how many new old-style Marines have been released for the main GW game since Primaris showed up? I can't really remember any. That combined with me not keeping up with all GW released might mean that some slipped through that I overlooked but it seems 100% clear to me that GW wants to remove old style Marines if possible. If all they release are Primaris, what value is there in the old Marines for them (GW, not customers who bought them), besides having to deal with the after effects of that switch from old to new?
The big issue they have is probably the rules, in that long term collectors have huge legacy collections. My guess is that they'll want to get Primaris Marines established enough (from a sales perspective) so that people are invested and then slowly push out old style Marines out of the main game by giving them less exciting rules until they can be finally shoved off to some sort of 41st century version of the Forgeworld HH rules (or some legacy vehicle rules for HH era tanks). Then old style Marines will be more like an exotic choice while all Primaris armies will be the standard Marines.
The only reason its happening slowly is because Marine buyers are a huge chunk of their customer base. Otherwise old Marines would have been swept aside like Squats the moment the Primaris range was big enough to stand on their own (as in: be a viable army).
"They're not being squated, they're being rotated out, it's completely different you salty doomsayers!!!"
Sure if you say something repeatedly for years it should eventually happen.
I fully expect one day as the asteroid looms overhead someone will rush to Dakka Dakka and triumphantly post "I was right! GW stopped selling the old marines!"
of course these are explicitly returning at some point later, so no dice today
I see the narrative's shifting just as expected. Now we're going from, "GW would NEVER squat Firstborn!" and into the "Um it was obviously going to happen eventually, it's YOUR fault for not seeing it coming!" mode eh?
I'm not the person you replied to but it felt to me from the Primaris start that they are supposed to be the new Marines and the old-style ones' best bet for survival in a few years is as some sort of exotic option or as some sort of "counts-as" for Primaris units. Squatting Squats so easily was possible because they were such a tiny range for GW and not their main money maker. I explained my theory in the paragraphs above. You simply can't cut off GW's main money maker and expect to still make GW sized bags of money every year.
Old style Marines won't disappear overnight (probably never, there's too many of them) but I expect that in a few years (in like two 40K editions) they'll be more of an afterthought. With the game being designed around Primaris, all other armies will be designed to work (aesthetically and mechanically) in accordance with them. If legacy Marines aren't somehow killed off in the lore with some sort of virus that targets them directly (maybe something like FOXDIE from the Metal Gear series) then they might get made inconvenient to keep around without technically being squatted, maybe tolerated at best because so many people invested a lot of money in those miniatures and you can't cut these legacy Marines off that easily without causing some huge negative PR storm.
That's probably the line of miniatures that grew GW into the juggernaut they are today and the line that kept GW out of deeper trouble when they were not doing so well after the LOTR bubble. They won't get literally squatted but they will get sent to the 40K equivalent of the the kids' table with exotic and/or unconventional armies that nobody really uses anymore. They will get as close as squatted as possible without technically being squatted.
WarhammerCommunity wrote:It is of course possible some of these heroes could return as updated models in future too.
Doesn't this part contradict things a bit? "These models will be returning, unless they don't and they just get replaced"?
To me the idea seems to be that they will over time remove all kinda of old miniatures, especially anything that's not plastic. And if/when a new codex or army book is released where some of them may be needed then they might re-release the old one or make a new one in plastic (I'm betting on "new plastic one" every time) so that the codex entry is not left behind without a miniature. My guess is that they will first remove all the non-plastic miniatures. Then they can set up some sort of new/modern legacy production corner where they can manufacture those if needed — after having made a calculation of "re-release old plastic/resin miniature vs. make a new plastic one".
Of course it might also be PR speak for slowly removing all these old miniatures that probably don't sell well but have a codex entry. It might simply be more streamlined/efficient for them to remake them all in plastic when the miniature is finally needed again (whenever that moment in time happens) but that it's a hassle to keep them available right now. In short: They are gone but only for now.
It's simply easier to say that they will be gone soon and might come back if needed but that you can make new versions (which actually might be the preferable option for GW) than to say that they will be ruthlessly cutting old (metal/resin) miniatures that don't sell much anyways and are collecting dust. GW does have a reputation for keeping a lot of old miniatures and only cutting them off once a new version was released. This feels like their next step into a plastic only future, and to connect it to the other parts I quoted and replied to: A plastic and Primaris only future (at least for Marines).
Tallonian4th wrote: I find it strange people are seeing this as some big FOMO conspiracy when it's pretty normal for other model kit companies. I'm amazed that GW keep so many items in permanent stock it must be a night mare. Compare this to Airfix for example who have approximately 1,600 tools and currently have only about 240 lines on sale. GW on the other hand have 907 items currently listed as for sale on the GW store alone and that ignores FW. There must be many kits they only sell small amount of and it makes sense to concentrate those sales for slow selling items to free up resources for constant selling staples. Again using Airfix as an example you will always be able to buy a Spitfire or Lancaster from them but a Whirlwind or Stirling will only be rotated in and out of availability (sometimes for years at a time).
The thing is, GW is the one making a big deal about it. They retire things regularly already. They've been doing this practice for years already - and its part of why Made To Order is popular.
I'm just hoping the next wave includes Centurions.
WarhammerCommunity wrote:It is of course possible some of these heroes could return as updated models in future too.
Doesn't this part contradict things a bit? "These models will be returning, unless they don't and they just get replaced"?
It wasn't artfully put but I think what they mean is literally what they said - they said heroes, not models. None of these heroes will disappear permanently - some will rotate in again at some point, but more likely, they will all eventually reappear as plastic Primaris (for $40 each presumably).
Tallonian4th wrote: I find it strange people are seeing this as some big FOMO conspiracy when it's pretty normal for other model kit companies. I'm amazed that GW keep so many items in permanent stock it must be a night mare. Compare this to Airfix for example who have approximately 1,600 tools and currently have only about 240 lines on sale. GW on the other hand have 907 items currently listed as for sale on the GW store alone and that ignores FW. There must be many kits they only sell small amount of and it makes sense to concentrate those sales for slow selling items to free up resources for constant selling staples. Again using Airfix as an example you will always be able to buy a Spitfire or Lancaster from them but a Whirlwind or Stirling will only be rotated in and out of availability (sometimes for years at a time).
The thing is, GW is the one making a big deal about it. They retire things regularly already. They've been doing this practice for years already - and its part of why Made To Order is popular.
I'm just hoping the next wave includes Centurions.
Warcom had to write an article so they wrote about this. Slow week or someone in customer service want to bring it up to the customers.
Or its a big conspiracy to hook all these nonexistent FOMO buyers GW is targeting.
Unless the people who are complaining are actually the FOMO buyers and its all projection behind conspiracy theories to justify running to the hobby shop after work today.
But Space Marine special characters are some of the easiest things to convert/kitbash, hell you don't even have to specifically be trying to convert the special character to have an appropriate model. Just say "This Watch Captain with a power sword is Artemis" and the vast majority of people won't bat an eye.
Yeah, I generally only get character models (let alone special ones) in box sets with other stuff. Add fancy bits to regular marine, boom, done.
I did order Artemis off a 3rd party store, because like I said earlier, he's ideal for converting a Xenophase Blade DW captain - I might even give him a jump pack and storm shield just to look cool.
WarhammerCommunity wrote:It is of course possible some of these heroes could return as updated models in future too.
Doesn't this part contradict things a bit? "These models will be returning, unless they don't and they just get replaced"?
It wasn't artfully put but I think what they mean is literally what they said - they said heroes, not models. None of these heroes will disappear permanently - some will rotate in again at some point, but more likely, they will all eventually reappear as plastic Primaris (for $40 each presumably).
The article says "certain miniature kits are removed from circulation for a period, to return at a later date" - so the article says the miniatures themselves are what's rotating and will return, while the reply says maybe one of these disappears and the miniature doesn't come back but the hero gets an updated model instead. Those are two very different things.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Nope not bothered by this. I mean GW gave up on 'everything from the dawn of time in stock forever (in Nottingham)' but around 2011, and we've seen terrain kits, IG metals and other models disappearing all the time. I too am very skeptical about these ever coming back, but that's fine.
No reasonable person can expect a toy company to keep everything in production forever, and others pointed out, 3D printers go BRRRRR.
No thats quite common, many models get discontinued... thats not what GW is saying. They said we cant have these many SKUs we are going to put on hold and in rotation several units, here's the first ones.
This is not your common bye bye old mini, this seems something much wider across the 40k board aiming at both plastics and resins.
They can keep things on codex because officially the unit is not extinct, it's still part of the range, it's just that you cannot buy it.
With the avalanche of new products GW puts up with its a question of time ( apparently we are out of time) for when more minis get into rotation mode.
Besides what will be the determining factor to rotate a unit... age of the kit? Size takes too much space? Popularity? And the scary bit here is, will a range that collides with GW new marketing plan be considered too?
I think this is heading more towards a model where they release an Indomitus for 1 month and then split easy build sprues into 2 pricy bundles on another month... to finish off by putting them on rotation mode, to give space for the next boxset coming in. We are not far from that already.
Moria, for example, seems to be missing a sizeable chunk of their range. Basically all of their goblin variants are missing, for example.
The factions that don't take center stage tend to be the ones that fall behind on models with the following factions missing models from the range (specifically LotR as I don't have armies of the Hobbit and can't check that):
Spoiler:
Good The Shire - Bilbo, Bandobras Took
Numenor - Numenorian Captain (although this unit is indistinguishable from regular Warriors)
Minas Tirith - King of Men
The Fiefdoms - Captain of Dol Amroth (again, easily replaceable with a foot Knight)
Arnor - Arvedui, Malbeth, Captain, Warrior
Wildmen - Ghan-Buri-Ghan, Woses
Rivendell - Lindir, Cirdan, Gildor
Lothlorien - Rumil
Khazad Dum - Dwarf King
Wanderers in the Wild - Murin, Drar
40 unit entries don't have model representation in GW's range (with a couple that can easily be proxied/converted) out of 267 unit profiles in the Armies of LotR book (if my maths is correct).
I don't think that's a conspiracy theory. The moment the first Primaris Marines got released it felt to me like that's the Marines GW wants to sell from now on and build a huge range for those like the old Marines have/had. They made a lot of money from Marines and getting a second chance to do the same all over again is rare. They can't mess this up like the somewhat rocky start of AOS. I haven't paid attention to every release but how many new old-style Marines have been released for the main GW game since Primaris showed up? I can't really remember any. That combined with me not keeping up with all GW released might mean that some slipped through that I overlooked but it seems 100% clear to me that GW wants to remove old style Marines if possible. If all they release are Primaris, what value is there in the old Marines for them (GW, not customers who bought them), besides having to deal with the after effects of that switch from old to new?
And yet, why?
Seriously, why would GW squat Old Marines when GW can get people to buy both Primaris and Old Marines at the same time? You are right that Primaris are to sell Marines to veteran Marines players that no longer buy Old Marines, but that doesn't necessitate removing Old Marines, specially when new Marine players that lack Old Marines will likely buy both Old Marines and Primaris Marines.
Personally, the only way I can such squatting ever happening is if GW merges Primaris and Old Marines equivalent units to reduce unit bloat.
Tallonian4th wrote: I find it strange people are seeing this as some big FOMO conspiracy when it's pretty normal for other model kit companies. I'm amazed that GW keep so many items in permanent stock it must be a night mare. Compare this to Airfix for example who have approximately 1,600 tools and currently have only about 240 lines on sale. GW on the other hand have 907 items currently listed as for sale on the GW store alone and that ignores FW. There must be many kits they only sell small amount of and it makes sense to concentrate those sales for slow selling items to free up resources for constant selling staples. Again using Airfix as an example you will always be able to buy a Spitfire or Lancaster from them but a Whirlwind or Stirling will only be rotated in and out of availability (sometimes for years at a time).
The thing is, GW is the one making a big deal about it. They retire things regularly already. They've been doing this practice for years already - and its part of why Made To Order is popular.
I'm just hoping the next wave includes Centurions.
Right but they typically do it only for terrain, when replacing a product, or when squatting something. All cases where fans are seemingly not as invested given the usual muted level of irritation when any of those three things happen. But if they are going to start removing models, especially iconic (if not high selling) characters or plastic kits then fans will notice.
I'm guessing this is partially to prime fans for future retiring of kits that aren't selling or are being functionally replaced in order to reduce backlash.
I think people tend to underestimate how badly fans react to things which are unexpected. So warning them, "hey we're rotating models you care about now" will temper the response to an expected disappointment rather than a confused rage.
Fomo pump n dump churn.
Leave some things permanently in the bin of history, lost in the warp of churn noise.
With price increases, … well, 3D printers are getting cheaper by the day so… crossing a rubicon indeed.
I never got around to painting that rune priest model, and now it's rotated out. When I do finish it there will be a nice spot next to my Space Wolves Executioner Tank for it to sit.
I have so many outdated GW models at this point that them expiring or shelving a few more doesn't phase me anymore.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Nope not bothered by this. I mean GW gave up on 'everything from the dawn of time in stock forever (in Nottingham)' but around 2011, and we've seen terrain kits, IG metals and other models disappearing all the time. I too am very skeptical about these ever coming back, but that's fine.
No reasonable person can expect a toy company to keep everything in production forever, and others pointed out, 3D printers go BRRRRR.
No thats quite common, many models get discontinued... thats not what GW is saying. They said we cant have these many SKUs we are going to put on hold and in rotation several units, here's the first ones.
This is not your common bye bye old mini, this seems something much wider across the 40k board aiming at both plastics and resins.
They can keep things on codex because officially the unit is not extinct, it's still part of the range, it's just that you cannot buy it.
With the avalanche of new products GW puts up with its a question of time ( apparently we are out of time) for when more minis get into rotation mode.
Besides what will be the determining factor to rotate a unit... age of the kit? Size takes too much space? Popularity? And the scary bit here is, will a range that collides with GW new marketing plan be considered too?
I think this is heading more towards a model where they release an Indomitus for 1 month and then split easy build sprues into 2 pricy bundles on another month... to finish off by putting them on rotation mode, to give space for the next boxset coming in. We are not far from that already.
...and so what? Stop buying GW products if their business practice goes against your rules/beliefs/ethics.
Maybe I am just getting too old, but ultimately this is a toy product. If a toy company is going to do something I don't like I'll just go elsewhere. I'll 3D print my own models, play with different rulesets, or shop at 3rd party vendors. The world is our oyster, and GW is selling us very expensive stuff. You can still play with what you have and you can play older editions. GW ain't sending its ninjas to burn anyone's army.
I just honestly don't get this expectations/obligation that GW remains this static thing that never changes. Company is going to company and I just don't understand how people have the energy to worry about it, and I have spent inordinate amount of money over the past 25 years on GW products. If GW makes it easier for me to ignore their product the better. If GW is going into 40k seasons modes where you can only use the latest season models then I am lucky: I get to not spend money on 40k.
Maybe I am just jaded and old, or perhaps it is the "maya" of tabletop wargaming not reaching my heart anymore.
If I'd want to spend time worrying about a company there are far more evil and wicked companies around to worry about than a Nottingham toy company that is so afraid of the digital age they'd rather sell us expensive shelf-spacers than provide us with proper updates.
WarhammerCommunity wrote:They'll just be leaving the range for a while, but they'll return in the future, most likely alongside a relevant release such as a new Codex or Campaign Book. It is of course possible some of these heroes could return as updated models in future too.
This is exactly what I thought once I looked at the list of models "going into the GW Vault". The only named character I expect to see again without a Primaris update is Tycho, because he's dead twice over!
Hence the post said "possible". Did you just ignore the first part or what?
How does that contradict what I wrote? They announce they are rotating the availability of these models and then turn around and say that it's possible they're being replaced instead.
Perhaps you should work on your own reading comprehension before criticizing that of others.
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: How does that contradict what I wrote? They announce they are rotating the availability of these models and then turn around and say that it's possible they're being replaced instead.
Perhaps you should work on your own reading comprehension before criticizing that of others.
The 40kFB page makes a vague non-committal response to a comment and you decided the whole process is replacement.
Just so there is absolutely no doubt this is the exact comment chain:
FB User wrote:To be fair most of these just need new models anyway
Warhammer 40k wrote:It's possible we could see updates of some of these guys in future.
That is the same basic formula the GWFB pages use for 90% of the comments on there.
"Wow you sure are right random internet person, it would be cool if at some point we made new/updated models."
Tamereth wrote: So GW is binning off a bunch of low sales items to simplify inventory. I’ll believe the rotation nonsense when any of these come back. I’d bet heavily that the fine cast stuff on this list is gone for good.
Aye, only problem is when rulebooks for that specific army have that finecast model entry. They did not update the mini to plastic, they just put it on the rotating box and hide it for when they see it fit.
Its like selling a chess game but you cant buy all the pieces you need to play.
2022 price rise, rotating minis... lets see the next one...
Always On-Line DRM. If you don't input your boxed set's bar code into the Game's Workshop User Verification App, your models will melt themselves.
Abadabadoobaddon wrote: How does that contradict what I wrote? They announce they are rotating the availability of these models and then turn around and say that it's possible they're being replaced instead.
Perhaps you should work on your own reading comprehension before criticizing that of others.
The 40kFB page makes a vague non-committal response to a comment and you decided the whole process is replacement.
Where did I claim the whole process is replacement? All I said is that what they described as a possibility (replacing with an updated model vs rotating the old model back in) is replacement, not rotation.
Your whole point is based on an incorrect statement.
This:
WarhammerCommunity wrote:They'll just be leaving the range for a while, but they'll return in the future, most likely alongside a relevant release such as a new Codex or Campaign Book. It is of course possible some of these heroes could return as updated models in future too.
Was not written in the article. It is a combination of the article saying the models featured may be released sometime in the future and a reply to a FB comment on how the commenter believed most of the featured models require updates.
You literally don't have a point because GW has not said any of those models will be replaced.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Nope not bothered by this. I mean GW gave up on 'everything from the dawn of time in stock forever (in Nottingham)' but around 2011, and we've seen terrain kits, IG metals and other models disappearing all the time. I too am very skeptical about these ever coming back, but that's fine.
No reasonable person can expect a toy company to keep everything in production forever, and others pointed out, 3D printers go BRRRRR.
No thats quite common, many models get discontinued... thats not what GW is saying. They said we cant have these many SKUs we are going to put on hold and in rotation several units, here's the first ones.
This is not your common bye bye old mini, this seems something much wider across the 40k board aiming at both plastics and resins.
They can keep things on codex because officially the unit is not extinct, it's still part of the range, it's just that you cannot buy it.
With the avalanche of new products GW puts up with its a question of time ( apparently we are out of time) for when more minis get into rotation mode.
Besides what will be the determining factor to rotate a unit... age of the kit? Size takes too much space? Popularity? And the scary bit here is, will a range that collides with GW new marketing plan be considered too?
I think this is heading more towards a model where they release an Indomitus for 1 month and then split easy build sprues into 2 pricy bundles on another month... to finish off by putting them on rotation mode, to give space for the next boxset coming in. We are not far from that already.
...and so what? Stop buying GW products if their business practice goes against your rules/beliefs/ethics.
Maybe I am just getting too old, but ultimately this is a toy product. If a toy company is going to do something I don't like I'll just go elsewhere. I'll 3D print my own models, play with different rulesets, or shop at 3rd party vendors. The world is our oyster, and GW is selling us very expensive stuff. You can still play with what you have and you can play older editions. GW ain't sending its ninjas to burn anyone's army.
I just honestly don't get this expectations/obligation that GW remains this static thing that never changes. Company is going to company and I just don't understand how people have the energy to worry about it, and I have spent inordinate amount of money over the past 25 years on GW products. If GW makes it easier for me to ignore their product the better. If GW is going into 40k seasons modes where you can only use the latest season models then I am lucky: I get to not spend money on 40k.
Maybe I am just jaded and old, or perhaps it is the "maya" of tabletop wargaming not reaching my heart anymore.
If I'd want to spend time worrying about a company there are far more evil and wicked companies around to worry about than a Nottingham toy company that is so afraid of the digital age they'd rather sell us expensive shelf-spacers than provide us with proper updates.
God I am tired. So tired.
See if your tired just take a step back and rest or dont post. At the end of the day its a forum about toys where we discuss toys. No one is forcing you to play is it?
I dont know what your on about with the "against your rules/beliefs/ethics" though really?
Believe it or not I dont care enough about this but GW is starting the year with a few stinkers and we are debating it for the sake of it, like it or not some people like to debate things.
Your making things up and then concern posting about it. Lol your not "believe it or not I don't care enough about this" you are "Believe me, l'm hella concerned, here are my baseless concerns."
Tamereth wrote: So GW is binning off a bunch of low sales items to simplify inventory. I’ll believe the rotation nonsense when any of these come back. I’d bet heavily that the fine cast stuff on this list is gone for good.
Aye, only problem is when rulebooks for that specific army have that finecast model entry. They did not update the mini to plastic, they just put it on the rotating box and hide it for when they see it fit.
Its like selling a chess game but you cant buy all the pieces you need to play.
2022 price rise, rotating minis... lets see the next one...
Always On-Line DRM. If you don't input your boxed set's bar code into the Game's Workshop User Verification App, your models will melt themselves.
GW is a bit behind on digital so yeah that may well be their 2022 take on it. BTW can someone tell FW I'm not a bot! Fed up of the bus and boat pictures every time I go there. Man oh man they do have a funny way about modern things.
Just my 2 cents on this, but of the list they put out today, I've not seen a single person buy, or play these models at any of my LGS. I don't even know anyone who owns any of them, save one of my friends that has the Watch Captain.
Seems reasonable to put some of this stuff on the back burner for a while. Plus, they're telling people now so that you have time to go and get what you want. Seems to me like a lot of people just want something to screech at.
Gert wrote: Your whole point is based on an incorrect statement.
This:
WarhammerCommunity wrote:They'll just be leaving the range for a while, but they'll return in the future, most likely alongside a relevant release such as a new Codex or Campaign Book. It is of course possible some of these heroes could return as updated models in future too.
Was not written in the article. It is a combination of the article saying the models featured may be released sometime in the future and a reply to a FB comment on how the commenter believed most of the featured models require updates.
You literally don't have a point because GW has not said any of those models will be replaced.
I never said it was written in the article. The quoted comment was posted by the official Warhammer Community Twitter account. And what the hell does that have to do with your prior objection to my comments? Care to take another swing?
Togusa wrote: Just my 2 cents on this, but of the list they put out today, I've not seen a single person buy, or play these models at any of my LGS. I don't even know anyone who owns any of them, save one of my friends that has the Watch Captain.
Seems reasonable to put some of this stuff on the back burner for a while. Plus, they're telling people now so that you have time to go and get what you want. Seems to me like a lot of people just want something to screech at.
I mean that is what DakkaDakka is famous for. The same 10 or so posters making the same complaints 12 hours a day for the last decade.
I am surprised by the number of posters here and elsewhere that seem to be seeing this announcement only through the lens of the list of models that were the first to hit rotation.
This was not an announcement about these 19 kits. It was an announcement about a new policy, which absolutely will affect more models in the range somewhere down the road.
Like many of you, I don't particularly care about any of these 19 kits. But that's hardly the point, right? Because eventually, they are going to hit models I DO care about. And they're going to eventually hit models that you care about too.
PenitentJake wrote: I am surprised by the number of posters here and elsewhere that seem to be seeing this announcement only through the lens of the list of models that were the first to hit rotation.
This was not an announcement about these 19 kits. It was an announcement about a new policy, which absolutely will affect more models in the range somewhere down the road.
Like many of you, I don't particularly care about any of these 19 kits. But that's hardly the point, right? Because eventually, they are going to hit models I DO care about. And they're going to eventually hit models that you care about too.
Yes, but then you can just buy them or wait a little more and work on your backlog. You already waited years to buy models like these, apparently you can wait a little more until they're back. And since GW replaces 40K every 3 years that's the timeframe you can expect until they're back.
PenitentJake wrote: I am surprised by the number of posters here and elsewhere that seem to be seeing this announcement only through the lens of the list of models that were the first to hit rotation.
This was not an announcement about these 19 kits. It was an announcement about a new policy, which absolutely will affect more models in the range somewhere down the road.
Like many of you, I don't particularly care about any of these 19 kits. But that's hardly the point, right? Because eventually, they are going to hit models I DO care about. And they're going to eventually hit models that you care about too.
If you “care about them” you’d have bought them, is GW’s view. It’s not unreasonable to retire low-selling models, and companies do it all the time. GW don’t usually tell us when something goes. This bit of FOMO time-restriction marketing is just window dressing on a regular range reduction.
But seriously, some of these have been in production for like 20 years. GW doesn’t get paid in forum musings on “hmmm someday I’ll buy X character/army maybe possibly”.
Plant wrote: Can you imagine the outcry of some one like Lego did this? People would just stop collecting And they'd be closed down in a month!
LEGO retire kits all the time… because they’re a manufacturing business and can’t manufacture everything from their history always. Kinda very similar.
A better hot take might be “this is like asking LEGO to still be producing set 928 and being salty they’ve now decided to stop even though I’ve had since 1979 to buy it.”
I... Fail to really see what has some people so worked up, GW doesn't have the best track record with their business decisions and I certainly have no love for many of their decisions and changes, but this just seems like a rather inoffensive logistical solution.
Like... they're already doing it with LotR, many other wargames do the same, and their catalogue is so bloated that it definitely needs the help. While yeah I do get on some level "but I want it now" when it comes to the possibility of not being able to buy certain sets, it's not exactly going to be the biggest priority of GW to keep stocked and have manufacturing lines for sets that people rarely buy. Logistics is a massive overhead and strain on a company, especially since GW does most of their logistics in-house, it makes sense that they wanna be able to cut down on that overhead.
Honestly, I'm just surprised it's taken this long for them to do it, really, it should have been done years and years ago.
Plant wrote: Can you imagine the outcry of some one like Lego did this? People would just stop collecting And they'd be closed down in a month!
LEGO retire kits all the time… because they’re a manufacturing business and can’t manufacture everything from their history always. Kinda very similar.
A better hot take might be “this is like asking LEGO to still be producing set 928 and being salty they’ve now decided to stop even though I’ve had since 1979 to buy it.”
No way. I had no idea. Looks like GW aren't as stupid as people make out.
I hereby fully reverse my position due to recognising my own ignorance.
Togusa wrote: Just my 2 cents on this, but of the list they put out today, I've not seen a single person buy, or play these models at any of my LGS. I don't even know anyone who owns any of them, save one of my friends that has the Watch Captain.
Well, I currently own at least 4 of them - even if I'm not entirely sure where one of them has gone - and have tried to pick at least a couple of the others up in a proper material (*cough*metal*cough*) at various times.
Plant wrote: Can you imagine the outcry of some one like Lego did this? People would just stop collecting And they'd be closed down in a month!
LEGO retire kits all the time… because they’re a manufacturing business and can’t manufacture everything from their history always. Kinda very similar.
A better hot take might be “this is like asking LEGO to still be producing set 928 and being salty they’ve now decided to stop even though I’ve had since 1979 to buy it.”
Pretty sure he's being sarcastic.
My girls have gotten into Lego Friends (and ONLY Lego Friends) and will ask for this kit or that which they see in the catalogue in the back of some instructions. Of course the kit is now OOP and going for over $100...
Togusa wrote: Just my 2 cents on this, but of the list they put out today, I've not seen a single person buy, or play these models at any of my LGS. I don't even know anyone who owns any of them, save one of my friends that has the Watch Captain.
Well, I currently own at least 4 of them - even if I'm not entirely sure where one of them has gone - and have tried to pick at least a couple of the others up in a proper material (*cough*metal*cough*) at various times.
I know people own them. I was just commenting on the fact I'd not seen any of these models in games or in painting videos in eons. Some of them are great models, like Pedro and Lysander.
Man, if only there were some sort of online, bid-based sales platform with which you could purchase models while they are on rotation...
If only that mystical "Electronic Auction Bay" often allowed you to buy models for a lower price than they held/hold on the official Games Workshop web store, whether they were being currently produced or not...
What a world we would live in then.
Seriously, who cares about this? Is there a secret underground Brother Corbulo fan club somewhere on this forum? It's the only logical explanation.
Plant wrote: Can you imagine the outcry of some one like Lego did this? People would just stop collecting And they'd be closed down in a month!
LEGO retire kits all the time… because they’re a manufacturing business and can’t manufacture everything from their history always. Kinda very similar.
A better hot take might be “this is like asking LEGO to still be producing set 928 and being salty they’ve now decided to stop even though I’ve had since 1979 to buy it.”
Pretty sure he's being sarcastic.
My girls have gotten into Lego Friends (and ONLY Lego Friends) and will ask for this kit or that which they see in the catalogue in the back of some instructions. Of course the kit is now OOP and going for over $100...
Hah, now I read it again it’s more obvious. Ahhh plain text and nuance, never together.
I never said it was written in the article. The quoted comment was posted by the official Warhammer Community Twitter account. And what the hell does that have to do with your prior objection to my comments? Care to take another swing?
Sorry, let me get this straight. Are you claiming you weren't trying to manufacture outrage by suggesting GW was being misleading? If its not this please elaborate on what exactly your post was commenting on.
I've also just gone a checked the context of the tweet in question and do you know what? It's exactly the same vein as the FB replies. Person asks if models will get updated, WarCom says "maybe". No GW saying the models are being replaced, just GW doing what GW always does when people ask model questions.
PenitentJake wrote: I am surprised by the number of posters here and elsewhere that seem to be seeing this announcement only through the lens of the list of models that were the first to hit rotation.
This was not an announcement about these 19 kits. It was an announcement about a new policy, which absolutely will affect more models in the range somewhere down the road.
Like many of you, I don't particularly care about any of these 19 kits. But that's hardly the point, right? Because eventually, they are going to hit models I DO care about. And they're going to eventually hit models that you care about too.
Yes thats it, a new policy for all 40k kits. Surprising that GW publicly admitted they reached saturation and need to do this after a recent production upgrade.
I only remember GW doing such thing when they discontinued bitz many years ago.
Yet many got stuck on the pictures of minis they dont like, so they dont care
I never said it was written in the article. The quoted comment was posted by the official Warhammer Community Twitter account. And what the hell does that have to do with your prior objection to my comments? Care to take another swing?
Sorry, let me get this straight. Are you claiming you weren't trying to manufacture outrage by suggesting GW was being misleading? If its not this please elaborate on what exactly your post was commenting on.
I was pointing out that replacement is not the same as rotation. If they rotate a model's availability then you will have another chance to buy it. If they replace a model you will not. It's concerning that they are making statements that seem to suggest that they regard both outcomes to be equally acceptable. But for instance, if you need one of the affected models for your non-primaris SM army and you're expecting it to be available again, you may be disappointed.
The "these models have been around for 10-20 years, you've had all that time to buy them" argument overlooks that many people have not been playing the game for 10-20 years, or were not playing the armies that these models were for 10-20 years ago. If someone buys their first codex and loves the fluff/model/rules for a "rotated" model, telling them that said model was around for 20 years before they started playing the game and that they should have somehow had the prescience to buy it then is just being a dick.
Now, Space Marines as a range is bloated enough to absorb these kinds of losses. Most other ranges aren't, and it will need to be seen how GW handles these "rotations" going forward. Are people only going to have an X-week window around the release of their codex to be able to get some models before they disappear again for the next "rotation" to come into stock, for example?
Yes I’m sure a significant proportion of people who started playing lately suddenly wanted uncompetitive unadvertised character models and will now have their Finecast hopes dashed… this really isn’t the whataboutism you’re looking for!
A Town Called Malus wrote: The "these models have been around for 10-20 years, you've had all that time to buy them" argument overlooks that many people have not been playing the game for 10-20 years, or were not playing the armies that these models were for 10-20 years ago. If someone buys their first codex and loves the fluff/model/rules for a "rotated" model, telling them that said model was around for 20 years before they started playing the game and that they should have somehow had the prescience to buy it then is just being a dick.
Now, Space Marines as a range is bloated enough to absorb these kinds of losses. Most other ranges aren't, and it will need to be seen how GW handles these "rotations" going forward. Are people only going to have an X-week window around the release of their codex to be able to get some models before they disappear again for the next "rotation" to come into stock, for example?
With Middle-Earth it's always been announced at least a month before the rotation happens. And stuff that comes back has always stayed at least a year before being swapped out again.
A Town Called Malus wrote: The "these models have been around for 10-20 years, you've had all that time to buy them" argument overlooks that many people have not been playing the game for 10-20 years, or were not playing the armies that these models were for 10-20 years ago. If someone buys their first codex and loves the fluff/model/rules for a "rotated" model, telling them that said model was around for 20 years before they started playing the game and that they should have somehow had the prescience to buy it then is just being a dick.
Now, Space Marines as a range is bloated enough to absorb these kinds of losses. Most other ranges aren't, and it will need to be seen how GW handles these "rotations" going forward. Are people only going to have an X-week window around the release of their codex to be able to get some models before they disappear again for the next "rotation" to come into stock, for example?
With Middle-Earth it's always been announced at least a month before the rotation happens. And stuff that comes back has always stayed at least a year before being swapped out again.
So one year rotations, thats not bad. Do all come back eventually or some just don't make it?
I can't think of anything off the top of my head that's been rotation specific that has never re-appeared. Stuff that is "oop" currently tend to end up on MTO's like this current one.
JohnnyHell wrote: Yes I’m sure a significant proportion of people who started playing lately suddenly wanted uncompetitive unadvertised character models and will now have their Finecast hopes dashed… this really isn’t the whataboutism you’re looking for!
What whataboutism? Whataboutism would be me excusing something by pointing out that someone else does it too (or does something worse). If you're gonna throw out the names of logical fallacies the least you could do is pick the right one.
Does it need to be a significant proportion for their feelings to be valid as a load of dickish old people belittle them for feeling a bit annoyed that models they would like are not available because said models were available for a long time before they wanted them?
JohnnyHell wrote: Yes I’m sure a significant proportion of people who started playing lately suddenly wanted uncompetitive unadvertised character models and will now have their Finecast hopes dashed… this really isn’t the whataboutism you’re looking for!
What whataboutism? Whataboutism would be me excusing something by pointing out that someone else does it too (or does something worse). If you're gonna throw out the names of logical fallacies the least you could do is pick the right one.
Does it need to be a significant proportion for their feelings to be valid as a load of dickish old people belittle them for feeling a bit annoyed that models they would like are not available because said models were available for a long time before they wanted them?
I’m saying you’re exaggerating the size of your invented-on-the-spot problem. That’s all.
Also dial it down, I’m not attacking you personally but ya seem riled. Just saying don’t pretend this is a huge issue. It isn’t.
A Town Called Malus wrote: The "these models have been around for 10-20 years, you've had all that time to buy them" argument overlooks that many people have not been playing the game for 10-20 years, or were not playing the armies that these models were for 10-20 years ago. If someone buys their first codex and loves the fluff/model/rules for a "rotated" model, telling them that said model was around for 20 years before they started playing the game and that they should have somehow had the prescience to buy it then is just being a dick.
Now, Space Marines as a range is bloated enough to absorb these kinds of losses. Most other ranges aren't, and it will need to be seen how GW handles these "rotations" going forward. Are people only going to have an X-week window around the release of their codex to be able to get some models before they disappear again for the next "rotation" to come into stock, for example?
To be fair the large volume of people who wouldn't start an army because the models are over 10 years old or more (looking at eldar) far outweigh those who buy into an army and have burning desire to buy a 30 year old tiny terminator who doesn't fit the aesthetic or setting (looking at the soon to be rotated ru e priest).
There's some odd ones like seth and artemis, who is the only character I can think who will have been out of production, albeit temporarily, twice now.
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Grot 6 wrote: FOMO in overdrive. GW is now the Gang that couldn't shoot straight. O.o
They call it "Rotation", I call it scrambling to cut costs, as they lose their market place with this last round of dumb-assed price hikes.
Yes, they're hoping people scramble to pick up those old finecrap models they hate to cover the mass exodus a 5% increase will bring. I hope you enjoy watching people dig up coal as they quit their electricity providers when they hike prices too.
Like many of you, I don't particularly care about any of these 19 kits. But that's hardly the point, right? Because eventually, they are going to hit models I DO care about. And they're going to eventually hit models that you care about too.
Yes thats it, a new policy for all 40k kits. Surprising that GW publicly admitted they reached saturation and need to do this after a recent production upgrade.
I only remember GW doing such thing when they discontinued bitz many years ago.
Yet many got stuck on the pictures of minis they dont like, so they dont care
A Town Called Malus wrote: The "these models have been around for 10-20 years, you've had all that time to buy them" argument overlooks that many people have not been playing the game for 10-20 years, or were not playing the armies that these models were for 10-20 years ago. If someone buys their first codex and loves the fluff/model/rules for a "rotated" model, telling them that said model was around for 20 years before they started playing the game and that they should have somehow had the prescience to buy it then is just being a dick.
The flipside of this is that these models have all been circulating for so very long they should be very, very easy to find on the secondary market.
I don't think any company is obligated to keep everything they ever produce in circulation in perpetuity. GWS does lots of messed up stuff but this really isn't one of them.
JohnnyHell wrote: But seriously, some of these have been in production for like 20 years. GW doesn’t get paid in forum musings on “hmmm someday I’ll buy X character/army maybe possibly”.
What GW does get paid from is people seeing the appeal of having a full diverse range available. If it's only obscure characters it's not really an issue, but it doesn't have to extend far before it hurts some of the appeal of GW games in general.
What GW does get paid from is people seeing the appeal of having a full diverse range available. If it's only obscure characters it's not really an issue, but it doesn't have to extend far before it hurts some of the appeal of GW games in general.
Isn't that the effect that having a miniature only in finecast has? For many, including me, it's the same that it being OOP. And if you see finecast that way there have been glaring holes in many armies for years, and still are. Of course, it doesn't seem to have harmed the success of the game, only the sucess of the neglected ranges. If people end up expecting miniatures to come back at some point it may even reduce FOMO.
JohnnyHell wrote: But seriously, some of these have been in production for like 20 years. GW doesn’t get paid in forum musings on “hmmm someday I’ll buy X character/army maybe possibly”.
What GW does get paid from is people seeing the appeal of having a full diverse range available. If it's only obscure characters it's not really an issue, but it doesn't have to extend far before it hurts some of the appeal of GW games in general.
Does it though? I’d wager it won’t. Not having core units available? Sure. Odd characters? Not so much. This exercise won’t dent their popularity in the slightest.
And again, a company retiring low sellers? Not unusual. Not ridiculous. Quite sensible. They’ll even bring them back.
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Grot 6 wrote: FOMO in overdrive. GW is now the Gang that couldn't shoot straight. O.o
They call it "Rotation", I call it scrambling to cut costs, as they lose their market place with this last round of dumb-assed price hikes.
This doesn’t cut any costs. It simplifies their inventory system. It creates an efficiency. Not the same. The rest of your post is, well, yeah. They’ve lost nowt!
What GW does get paid from is people seeing the appeal of having a full diverse range available. If it's only obscure characters it's not really an issue, but it doesn't have to extend far before it hurts some of the appeal of GW games in general.
Isn't that the effect that having a miniature only in finecast has? For many, including me, it's the same that it being OOP. And if you see finecast that way there have been glaring holes in many armies for years, and still are. Of course, it doesn't seem to have harmed the success of the game, only the sucess of the neglected ranges. If people end up expecting miniatures to come back at some point it may even reduce FOMO.
I'd say that's a separate discussion, unless it turns out that this policy only exists for finecast, which would be odd because those models are already direct only and small resin models are probably the easiest material for which to keep models in stock (it's not a big deal to only make a handful of resin models to replenish the stock unlike plastic models and the stock doesn't take up much space).
I'm not a fan of finecast, but I'd still rather have a model in finecast than no model at all.
JohnnyHell wrote: But seriously, some of these have been in production for like 20 years. GW doesn’t get paid in forum musings on “hmmm someday I’ll buy X character/army maybe possibly”.
What GW does get paid from is people seeing the appeal of having a full diverse range available. If it's only obscure characters it's not really an issue, but it doesn't have to extend far before it hurts some of the appeal of GW games in general.
Does it though? I’d wager it won’t. Not having core units available? Sure. Odd characters? Not so much. This exercise won’t dent their popularity in the slightest.
I guess we'll see where this policy leads us when / if it hits a faction that doesn't have 20 old disposable characters in their range.
If the question is do I think this range of Space Marines will have an effect on them, I'd say no, but I can't help but think this policy is going to expand to models that maybe don't generate a large number of sales themselves, but keep the range complete when it comes to other factions.
Are traditional Space Marines even selling these days, or is everyone over onto Primaris now (not talking about people who still play with models they bought pre-Primaris, but rather is anyone still buying traditional Space Marines now?).
But there are plastic minis going into 'rotation'...?
Anyway, I'm sticking with my argument: This is the end for Space Marines as we know it. Soon all the "Not more Marine stuff?" complaints will be a thing of the past, replaced with "Not more Tyranid stuff?".
I really do think this is a trial to see how much of a FOMO effect they can get to sell stuff that wasn't selling. They're starting with space marine characters specifically because everybody has space marine armies so if you're the marketer whose pet project this is it's a great one to start with to try to show your bosses how much FOMO you can leverage.
Nobody was buying these kits without the FOMO effect, so from GW's perspective it's win-win - if they sell them great, if they don't sell them oh well they weren't going to anyway, and they can just quietly not follow up on it if it doesn't turn out to actually be a profitable way to dispose of otherwise unsellable stuff.
As far as Finecast vs Plastic - The generic DA captain is going on rotation but not Sammael or Belial or Azrael. The chapter that doesn’t trust Primaris and is unlikely to have many. Now so does Fleshtearers, but they sell less. And don’t have one and a half to two special companies of first born. Ravenwing recognizes Outriders as basic bikers, but Deathwing doesn’t recognize (give ObSec to) Bladeguard.
And I’m still wondering how they’re going to retcon Cassius and Tycho.
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yukishiro1 wrote: I really do think this is a trial to see how much of a FOMO effect they can get to sell stuff that wasn't selling.
I think if you put three rumors/news together:
A) SM 8.0 supplements are supposedly getting redone
B) You can only buy these models until a set point
C) They may return in different forms
I think if they are redoing Supplements - they’re putting them out of reach for a time period so people dont get miffed they bought the old one the week before the new one went on pre-order.
Breton wrote: As far as Finecast vs Plastic - The generic DA captain is going on rotation but not Sammael or Belial or Azrael. The chapter that doesn’t trust Primaris and is unlikely to have many. Now so does Fleshtearers, but they sell less. And don’t have one and a half to two special companies of first born. Ravenwing recognizes Outriders as basic bikers, but Deathwing doesn’t recognize (give ObSec to) Bladeguard.
And I’m still wondering how they’re going to retcon Cassius and Tycho.
Why would they retcon Cassius and Tycho? They're putting the molds on a shelf, not deleting them from the codexes.
Kanluwen wrote: I think you people seriously need to actually learn what FOMO is beyond a buzzword.
Just accept that they mean forced scarcity. Or that GW is trying to create artificial demand for models that don't sell very well.
It isn't hard to figure out from the context.
Breton wrote: As far as Finecast vs Plastic - The generic DA captain is going on rotation but not Sammael or Belial or Azrael. The chapter that doesn’t trust Primaris and is unlikely to have many. Now so does Fleshtearers, but they sell less. And don’t have one and a half to two special companies of first born. Ravenwing recognizes Outriders as basic bikers, but Deathwing doesn’t recognize (give ObSec to) Bladeguard.
And I’m still wondering how they’re going to retcon Cassius and Tycho.
Why would they retcon Cassius and Tycho? They're putting the molds on a shelf, not deleting them from the codexes.
I believe they're suggesting that Cassius and Tycho will eventually have new Primaris-scale models of themselves released, despite the characters themselves facing, you know...
Complications.
Super late edit: It should be noted that Cassius isn't dead; he's just not an Ultramarine anymore, so it wouldn't be easy to make a Primaris-scale version of his non-Deathwatch model. I definitely knew that the whole time and did not just look up whether he was dead about five minutes ago.
Breton wrote: As far as Finecast vs Plastic - The generic DA captain is going on rotation but not Sammael or Belial or Azrael. The chapter that doesn’t trust Primaris and is unlikely to have many. Now so does Fleshtearers, but they sell less. And don’t have one and a half to two special companies of first born. Ravenwing recognizes Outriders as basic bikers, but Deathwing doesn’t recognize (give ObSec to) Bladeguard.
And I’m still wondering how they’re going to retcon Cassius and Tycho.
Why would they retcon Cassius and Tycho? They're putting the molds on a shelf, not deleting them from the codexes.
I believe they're suggesting that Cassius and Tycho will eventually have new Primaris-scale models of themselves released, despite the characters themselves facing, you know...
Complications.
Even though I kind of like Primaris I could never collect them because of how GW handled it. They should have just started upscaling marines to be more in line with peoples' expectation of them instead of creating a new breed of marines. I know they were just trying to avoid pissing off old SM players and do it in a way that let them release the line gradually, but I think if they'd just treated it like good ol' scale creep I think it would have worked out better.
PenitentJake wrote: I am surprised by the number of posters here and elsewhere that seem to be seeing this announcement only through the lens of the list of models that were the first to hit rotation.
This was not an announcement about these 19 kits. It was an announcement about a new policy, which absolutely will affect more models in the range somewhere down the road.
Like many of you, I don't particularly care about any of these 19 kits. But that's hardly the point, right? Because eventually, they are going to hit models I DO care about. And they're going to eventually hit models that you care about too.
I really only care about thier rules continuing to exist.
Ideally in a Codex or such, but Legends will work.
Have rules? Then I'm good no matter the availability of the exact models on GWs end. If I can't buy it from GW I'll convert something, scroll Ebay/FB/etc listings, use some 3rd party model, 3d print it....
It's only when the rules for my models go away that I get annoyed (ex: squats. Ex: las-plas Razorback turrets).
If we do I hope we get a good 3 part Black Library series about the poor serf that had to collect his remains. I hope there's a whole book dedicated to finding his bottom-right-most rib.
Flipsiders wrote: Super late edit: It should be noted that Cassius isn't dead; he's just not an Ultramarine anymore, so it wouldn't be easy to make a Primaris-scale version of his non-Deathwatch model. I definitely knew that the whole time and did not just look up whether he was dead about five minutes ago.
Unless I've missed something in his timeline - which is possible, as I didn't get the Ultramarines supplement - the version of Cassius being "retired" here is after the plastic Deathwatch version from... Kill Team Cassius (and which boxed set it was in initially), hence why he has come down with a bad case of Bioacid Melted Face Syndrome.
Still seems very odd that they'd retire two plastic kits here.
Stormonu wrote: I’ll be curious to see if GW drops the “rotated out” models from Codexes, especially if 3rd party versions become more prominent.
It's interesting that the Warhammer Community article phrases it very carefully:
GW wrote:The rotated models remain fully legal in all forms of play – narrative, matched, and open.
They're not committing to rules in the relevant codices. You might think so, and it's not specifically ruled out either, but if they were so inclined, they could easily move the rules to Legends for that statement to hold true.
We won't even have to take screenshots of the article for fear that GW tries to rewrite history again. They've been clever and noncommittal this time around.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I'd be very surprised if we got a Primaris Tycho.
Don't be silly. Crossing the Rubicon Primaris is a dangerous prospect and more Firstborn die in the attempt than survive.
How could you then not expect to get Primaris Tycho?
Flipsiders wrote: Super late edit: It should be noted that Cassius isn't dead; he's just not an Ultramarine anymore, so it wouldn't be easy to make a Primaris-scale version of his non-Deathwatch model. I definitely knew that the whole time and did not just look up whether he was dead about five minutes ago.
Unless I've missed something in his timeline - which is possible, as I didn't get the Ultramarines supplement - the version of Cassius being "retired" here is after the plastic Deathwatch version from... Kill Team Cassius (and which boxed set it was in initially), hence why he has come down with a bad case of Bioacid Melted Face Syndrome.
Yes, unless there's been a ridiculous retcon Deathwatch Cassius is a historical character and melted face Cassius is the current, returned to the chapter version.
Dysartes wrote: Still seems very odd that they'd retire two plastic kits here.
I've been wondering about that myself, especially about Artemis, but in his case I could see oversaturation causing a serious decline in sales. He was introduced in a battle box and instead of going on individual sale later, he went into a start collecting that people would likely want multiples of for the troops. There have to be plenty of Artemises around because of that, probably at better prices than retail as well.
I think the Blood Angels Terminator Captain may have had much the same issue as the character in the Blood Angels start collecting box.
It's interesting that the Warhammer Community article phrases it very carefully:
GW wrote:The rotated models remain fully legal in all forms of play – narrative, matched, and open.
They're not committing to rules in the relevant codices. You might think so, and it's not specifically ruled out either, but if they were so inclined, they could easily move the rules to Legends for that statement to hold true.
If they say the models are good for matched play, its a pretty clear statement they wont end up in legends (for now).
Perhaps GW will do a big box of heroes for BA. They have about a dozen iconic named characters that need to be updated from finecast.
It's interesting that the Warhammer Community article phrases it very carefully:
GW wrote:The rotated models remain fully legal in all forms of play – narrative, matched, and open.
They're not committing to rules in the relevant codices. You might think so, and it's not specifically ruled out either, but if they were so inclined, they could easily move the rules to Legends for that statement to hold true.
If they say the models are good for matched play, its a pretty clear statement they wont end up in legends (for now).
Perhaps GW will do a big box of heroes for BA. They have about a dozen iconic named characters that need to be updated from finecast.
You sure about that, Fayric? Here's the intro copy from the Legends page on WHC, talking about Warhammer 40,000 Legends:
"The Warhammer 40,000 Legends page contains datasheets and additional wargear options, definitive profiles that will live on their own dedicated page, enabling you to unleash your treasured classics in open, narrative and matched play games, with full points provided to help you balance your games."
Similar verbiage is at the start of each PDF, though it does recommend they not get used in "competitive tournaments", but they should be fair game in any other sort of game.
Which reminds me - need to email GW about the models currently missing from the Legends PDFs...
Yeah, I should have probably quoted that part in my earlier post. Common practice and belief regarding Legends in the community are not the same as GW's official stance. And of course, GW policy is based on the latter.
Geifer wrote: Don't be silly. Crossing the Rubicon Primaris is a dangerous prospect and more Firstborn die in the attempt than survive.
How could you then not expect to get Primaris Tycho?
'Cause he's already dead!
Far past dead, not "I can stuff him in a Dreadnought" dead. He fully died in the third war of Armageddon against the Orks. It seems some have forgotten that some of the characters in the timeline are still usable despite having had their proper deaths in the timeline long ago already.
I bet my clown allowance this will start here, and start hitting other peoples armies soon and then it starts with the screaming and wailing, no one screams when they trim some marines but we'll hear it soon boys and girls and when they come back I bet they'll cost a fair high amount as well, if they ever come back at all.
A Town Called Malus wrote: The "these models have been around for 10-20 years, you've had all that time to buy them" argument overlooks that many people have not been playing the game for 10-20 years, or were not playing the armies that these models were for 10-20 years ago. If someone buys their first codex and loves the fluff/model/rules for a "rotated" model, telling them that said model was around for 20 years before they started playing the game and that they should have somehow had the prescience to buy it then is just being a dick.
What people who want to help new players should tell them instead would be the fact these models were tiny, ugly, had bad details, and looked out of place even next to tactical marines, never mind primaris, and that the sane (and actually better looking/cheaper) option would be to just kitbash them. Or buy them second hand if they must, but really should skip them altogether due to crap material that was really new modeller unfriendly, no matter if metal or resin.
Of course that doesn't fit outrage narrative because that would kept the thread on a single page, better whine and bash endlessly, eh?
Breton wrote: They also explicitly said they will probably return with the new codex, and could be returning as a new model in a new form i.e. crossing the Rubicon.
Yup. Don't know why people act like this is somehow a contradiction, AoS did made to order of Alarielle and Nagash from WFB right next to AoS versions of these characters. Even if say Corbulo gets primaris version, GW will very much bring him back in his old, gak form occasionally to doubledip.
People in here thinking new players are going to want their dad's models and be mad when someone tells them the models that are older then them are not available.
It'd be like me being mad I couldn't get Rogue Trader marines in the late 90s lol.
Kanluwen wrote: I think you people seriously need to actually learn what FOMO is beyond a buzzword.
Just accept that they mean forced scarcity. Or that GW is trying to create artificial demand for models that don't sell very well.
It isn't hard to figure out from the context.
In this case FOMO is completely appropriate. It's not just enforced scarcity, the whole point of the announcement is "if you don't buy now who knows when you'll have another chance!" which is the essence of FOMO.
Gert wrote: But what makes it FOMO? Just because GW is giving people notice to order the models before they're removed from sale?
I think GW's doing the right thing, nice to have warning I hope they keep it up.
It's a bit different from Fear of Missing Out since, well, there is no fear, you know for certain these are going OOP (supposedly to return in our hour of greatest need).
FOMO is more like the Outcasts gang that disappeared with no warning only to be repackaged with a price hike.
Exactly, it's the kind of thing LCTB should have been. The amount of money I would have dropped on the R&H range if I'd had prep time would have been irresponsible.
It's a bit different from Fear of Missing Out since, well, there is no fear, you know for certain these are going OOP (supposedly to return in our hour of greatest need).
That's not how fear of missing out works. If that were the case then limited availability stuff in digital stores such as, say, Fortnite wouldn't be using FOMO.
You know you only have a month to grind your way to that chicken dance emote or whatever. But what if you don't get far enough into this months rotation to unlock it? Well, there's that booster you can buy to help you out...
Basically, FOMO is any usage of the perception of limited availability to psychologically affect people's behaviour in relation to getting "that thing".
You want a thing. You know company that sells a thing sometimes randomly pulls things from its store, so you'd better buy it now just in case it isn't available later. That is FOMO.
You want a thing. Company tells you that you only have a week to buy said thing before it is gone for a completely unspecified amount of time, so you'd better buy it now or who knows when you can get it next, if ever. That is also FOMO.
This absolutely is FOMO.
If you don't order now, you'll miss out on these for who knows how long.
If they just dropped them, sure that would suck more, but there is no possibility of the FEAR part of FOMO driving potential sales, because it's too late.
So by announcing that these models will be rotating out for who knows how long, GW is using FOMO tactics to encourage a few sales before they shelf these options for a while.
Then if they do return, it's possible GW could do a Limited time only Made-to-order release, essentially double dipping in the FOMO.
I honestly don't blame them. The Marine range is so overstuffed and currently pushing Primaris over other options, that I'm not surprised these First-born characters aren't selling.
It makes business sense to stop producing them for a while.
They are nice enough to let us know, but sales generated by this announcement will absolutely be because on FOMO.
Not sure why people are saying otherwise
AngryAngel80 wrote: I bet my clown allowance this will start here, and start hitting other peoples armies soon and then it starts with the screaming and wailing, no one screams when they trim some marines but we'll hear it soon boys and girls and when they come back I bet they'll cost a fair high amount as well, if they ever come back at all.
It hit other armies a long time ago. Vect is no more.
I am still miffed that GW rotated the female marine sculpts out of their SKUs.
Breton wrote: As far as Finecast vs Plastic - The generic DA captain is going on rotation but not Sammael or Belial or Azrael. The chapter that doesn’t trust Primaris and is unlikely to have many. Now so does Fleshtearers, but they sell less. And don’t have one and a half to two special companies of first born. Ravenwing recognizes Outriders as basic bikers, but Deathwing doesn’t recognize (give ObSec to) Bladeguard.
And I’m still wondering how they’re going to retcon Cassius and Tycho.
Why would they retcon Cassius and Tycho? They're putting the molds on a shelf, not deleting them from the codexes.
Because Cassius wasn't with the Deathwatch while Primaris were there - I believe there's even a blurb about that being an earlier Cassius and he shouldn't be taken with Primaris. And Tycho spoiler ahead:
Breton wrote: As far as Finecast vs Plastic - The generic DA captain is going on rotation but not Sammael or Belial or Azrael. The chapter that doesn’t trust Primaris and is unlikely to have many. Now so does Fleshtearers, but they sell less. And don’t have one and a half to two special companies of first born. Ravenwing recognizes Outriders as basic bikers, but Deathwing doesn’t recognize (give ObSec to) Bladeguard.
And I’m still wondering how they’re going to retcon Cassius and Tycho.
Why would they retcon Cassius and Tycho? They're putting the molds on a shelf, not deleting them from the codexes.
I believe they're suggesting that Cassius and Tycho will eventually have new Primaris-scale models of themselves released, despite the characters themselves facing, you know...
Complications.
Super late edit: It should be noted that Cassius isn't dead; he's just not an Ultramarine anymore, so it wouldn't be easy to make a Primaris-scale version of his non-Deathwatch model. I definitely knew that the whole time and did not just look up whether he was dead about five minutes ago.
Not quite but close. Their complication is those models with Primaris on the same table. And I think you have Cassius backwards - he's an Ultramarine again (Their Master of Sanctity) and he was Deathwatch when he was younger, before he was a Master of Sanctity (only the one extra Litany as Deathwatch) I don't think Tycho gets a Primaris version. A) its a little late for that B) they probably want a BA named captain with a "better" name for IP purposes. Its one thing to share it with the bible, its another to share it with LucasArts. I think he gets retired and replaced with a Gravis Boltstorm + unique captain. I'm not sure what to think with Cassius - but my preferred guess is he crosses the rubicon and goes back to the Deathwatch full time. The current UM Cassius is a little broken and way too cheap.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: I'd be very surprised if we got a Primaris Tycho.
So would Tycho. As mentioned I think they get a new named Gravis Captain - Boltstorm and something unique but BA flavored. Power Axe, Thunderhammer type relic. They still have Dante for the Jump packs, there isn't a Fight Phase Primaris Jump Pack.. so lean into the BA Terminator Captain that just went on Rotation, make him Gravis, Primaris, and named.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Geifer wrote: Yeah, I should have probably quoted that part in my earlier post. Common practice and belief regarding Legends in the community are not the same as GW's official stance. And of course, GW policy is based on the latter.
Well that and the most obvious out -
On 2/12/2022
Models are still legal
On 7/21/2022 new Supplement Drops.
Model moves to Legends.
Technically No conflict.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ZebioLizard2 wrote: Far past dead, not "I can stuff him in a Dreadnought" dead. He fully died in the third war of Armageddon against the Orks. It seems some have forgotten that some of the characters in the timeline are still usable despite having had their proper deaths in the timeline long ago already.
And that's the retcon I'm REALLY looking forward to.
Bellisarius Cawl: Bjorn! We can return you to the living by having you cross the Rubicon Primaris! The new organs would allow you to live outside of this Dreadnaught Sarcophagus! Breathe fresh air!
Bjorn: I'm not sure I trust you.
BC: Let me try! You could be a living hero walking with a Primarch again!
Bjorn: <sigh> all right.
Fade to black.
Bjorn wakes up in a new sarcophagus and asks "What happened?"
Cawl: There we complications. You're now a Primaris Marine but you wouldn't have survived the surgery, so we had to put you in a Redemptor. With a Heavy Onslaught Gatling Canon, and a Redempter Ice Lightning Claw. Its the first of its kind and we gave it to you to make up for this.
Just for S&G's, who do you think will be on round two of this rotation?
My guess:
Spoiler:
Lord Castellan Creed (IG; He's vanished into the warp since 8th, and it's a hundred years later, correct?)
Vargard Obyron (Necrons)
Nemesor Zahndrekh (Necrons)
Imotekh the Stormlord (Necrons) [replaced with plastic]
Trazyn the Infinite (Necrons)
Anrakyn the Traveler (Necrons)
Necron Lord with Ressurection Orb (Necrons)
Necron Lord with Warscythe (Necrons)
Orikan the Diviner (Necrons)
Cryptek (Necrons; the resin one)
The Red Terror (Tyranids)
Night Lords Chaos Lords (CSM)
Stormonu wrote: Just for S&G's, who do you think will be on round two of this rotation?
My guess:
Spoiler:
Lord Castellan Creed (IG; He's vanished into the warp since 8th, and it's a hundred years later, correct?)
Vargard Obyron (Necrons)
Nemesor Zahndrekh (Necrons)
Imotekh the Stormlord (Necrons) [replaced with plastic]
Trazyn the Infinite (Necrons)
Anrakyn the Traveler (Necrons)
Necron Lord with Ressurection Orb (Necrons)
Necron Lord with Warscythe (Necrons)
Orikan the Diviner (Necrons)
Cryptek (Necrons; the resin one)
The Red Terror (Tyranids)
Night Lords Chaos Lords (CSM)
If I'm right about this being phase 1 of new Supplement releases:
Spoiler:
The DA named - Some subgroup of Azrael, Sammael, Belial, Ezekiel, Saphon(who is technically already gone), Asmodai. Sammael being least likely. I suspect Azrael and/or Ezekiel, along with a Bladeguard Belial with the new supplement giving Bladeguard and Terminatorts ObSec) Potentially a Gravis Ezekiel or Asmodai to break that "glass ceiling".
Potentially Njall.
The old Necrons are also a potential if they get a codex 2.0.
I would hope Chaos and Nids get their 1.0 codex before the SM Supplements or a second Necron codex, so they're probably already in an unanounced rotation for a release slate with their codex like Eldar.
This uses sprues from 1994(?) plus finecast. Apparently it's in the new codex, but wouldn't be shocked to see it rotated out soon after. Expect that lots of people are going to convert them now.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Surprised the Catachans weren't on this list. They must be the oldest plastic set still in production.
Aren't the Space Marine bikes older?
I think zerkers are in contention here too.
I'd have to squint at the bikes, I thought they got an update at some point. Cats are definitely older than Zerkers, I bought both when they came out
Did the Falcon ever get an update? If not then it's around 25 years old.
Marine bikes got a recut in 4th ed, when the plastic attack bike parts came out.
Falcon and devilfish hulls are both very old, and could use a revamp like the guard tanks got.
For range rotation, my guess for next on the block are:
Techmarine
techmarine with servitors
Masters of the chapter
Autarch skyrunner
Nurgle daemon prince
Anrakyr
Warboss with big choppy
Overlord with war scythe
Grey knights brother captain
Lord with res orb
Generic cryptek
Night lords chaos lord
Iron warriors warsmith
Ultramarines Honor Guard
Red Terror
Pyrovore
Dark Angels chapter Ancient
Catachan snipers
Cadian Snipers
Cyber Wolf
Brood Brothers
Armor through the ages
Terminus Ultra
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Surprised the Catachans weren't on this list. They must be the oldest plastic set still in production.
Aren't the Space Marine bikes older?
I think zerkers are in contention here too.
I'd have to squint at the bikes, I thought they got an update at some point. Cats are definitely older than Zerkers, I bought both when they came out
Did the Falcon ever get an update? If not then it's around 25 years old.
I bought the Zerkers not long after their release also to convert into SW Blood Claws after the metals were discontinued.... I never did finish those conversions Back in the day I thought they looked cool (don't be too harsh on me, I had only just hit my teens)
Even if say Corbulo gets primaris version, GW will very much bring him back in his old, gak form occasionally to doubledip.
Oh I doubt that. Firstborn versions go to Legends in a flash. Marneus, Tigurius, Ragnar - and their models are gone too.
Minor point - as of around a week ago, Ragnar still wasn't in the Space Wolves Legends document. It was part of the reason for that thread in 40k General, so there was a better list of things to poke GW about and ask when they'd make it in there.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Surprised the Catachans weren't on this list. They must be the oldest plastic set still in production.
Aren't the Space Marine bikes older?
I think zerkers are in contention here too.
I'd have to squint at the bikes, I thought they got an update at some point. Cats are definitely older than Zerkers, I bought both when they came out
Did the Falcon ever get an update? If not then it's around 25 years old.
I bought the Zerkers not long after their release also to convert into SW Blood Claws after the metals were discontinued.... I never did finish those conversions Back in the day I thought they looked cool (don't be too harsh on me, I had only just hit my teens)
Ah. 1998. I bought the Catachans from the Glasgow GW and then popped along to watch the Blair Witch Project.
The initial enthusiasm waned after building them and they remained largely unpainted.
The commlink/ vox sets are still my favs though and I'm always happy to find more on the second hand market to equip my Praetorians.
Tallonian4th wrote: I find it strange people are seeing this as some big FOMO conspiracy when it's pretty normal for other model kit companies. I'm amazed that GW keep so many items in permanent stock it must be a night mare. Compare this to Airfix for example who have approximately 1,600 tools and currently have only about 240 lines on sale. GW on the other hand have 907 items currently listed as for sale on the GW store alone and that ignores FW. There must be many kits they only sell small amount of and it makes sense to concentrate those sales for slow selling items to free up resources for constant selling staples. Again using Airfix as an example you will always be able to buy a Spitfire or Lancaster from them but a Whirlwind or Stirling will only be rotated in and out of availability (sometimes for years at a time).
Sure they do... although they have 5 publications no rules and no game attached as far as I can see.
Point being GW rulesets publications games is a huge business for GW and the game is to be played today with the relevant tokens minis it needs.
If this was just Modelling kits for display and collectors items fair enough its a contained kit.
Its Like airfix would sell you the Stirling but just some sprues since the remaining, needed sprues, would be on a rotation period. You cant assemble the kit and 40k cant be played.
Well it can, people are clever to adapt convert etc... it just got a lot harder.
I find this amazing that GW acknowledged they reached saturation point... yet Production capacity has increased... Keep on churning more of the primaris in all the rainbow colours and in some cases with DOUBLE skus (regiment multipart box set) and ( easy build sprues on starters and deals)
Imagine If Eldar did not got some plastic sugar recently and were stuck to the old finecast and metals? Rotating eldar.
I'm sorry but that's not a good analogy a kit missing a sprue is impossible to complete, the rotation of these models by no means makes an army impossible to complete. From a business point of view there has to be a cut off at some point. Either you send these units to legends so you no longer need to support them at all or you put them into a rotation to keep them relevant. No company has infinite production capacity and the extra capacity GW did put in was pretty much immediately eaten up by the legal COVID requirements in the UK. Now hopefully those requirements are coming to an end but it may well have given GW a focus on where they feel they need extra capacity and these models weren't it. You talk about Eldar but the Eldar just got a large range refresh, I bet you would be pretty annoyed if this was pushed back, delayed or scaled back just to keep some niche models in a bloated Space Marines range. I'd much prefer new models for all ranges with niche models available for a limited time every so often to the niche models causing issues to the production and supply of the new.
I am kind of surprised terminator librarian is there. Especially seeing they were added to GK book recently too so the model serviced like a dozen armies. Although BA librarian was until recently cheaper so maybe people were buying BA model instead which is why it gets to stay unlike Karlaen.
First primaris models too, wonder how usual conspiracy theorists will spin that one
Irbis wrote: First primaris models too, wonder how usual conspiracy theorists will spin that one
No conspiracy. Those models are redundant now. The last of those models unavailable outside of that specific kit - the Primaris Ancient - now has its own model. No sense in keeping the sprue in production.
I mean... duh! Doesn't take much of a mind to figure that one out Irby.
I’m surprised they are pulling the Space Marine Commander. It’s and old kit, but that removes a lot of options for First-Born Captain models from the available range.
To be fair, that kit is old. Details soft, old spure, just very dated.
I hate to see it go away because of what it represents, but it’s served well for far too long.
They should do a new version of it. The fact that the gravis captain has all the options gives me hope. But I could just as easily see so many choices being dropped.
Redundant space marines continue to go
Chaos removal causes panic
Meanwhile, one of the last inquisitor minions goes unmourned and unremembered. Only monkeys and crusaders left standing! Then they'll start in on the Inquisitors themselves.
Voss wrote: Redundant space marines continue to go
Chaos removal causes panic
Meanwhile, one of the last inquisitor minions goes unmourned and unremembered. Only monkeys and crusaders left standing! Then they'll start in on the Inquisitors themselves.
I always wondered why this model was still in the shop. It's not exactly a fitting warrior acolyte.
But, well, I don't care. All the great henchmen miniatures vanished many years ago and I'm glad I have all of them. This model is just a relict. Though it would be nice if they make the whole range a MtO event.
alextroy wrote: I’m surprised they are pulling the Space Marine Commander. It’s and old kit, but that removes a lot of options for First-Born Captain models from the available range.
Barring any chapter specific ones that I'm forgetting, that leaves the semi-monopose one in the company command box as the only one left. That one is pretty much locked into sword an Plasma Pistol unless you want to start snipping. It isn't too hard, but can be a pain.
Nevelon wrote: To be fair, that kit is old. Details soft, old spure, just very dated.
I hate to see it go away because of what it represents, but it’s served well for far too long.
They should do a new version of it. The fact that the gravis captain has all the options gives me hope. But I could just as easily see so many choices being dropped.
It was also never that great, offering only 1 lightning claw, no thunder hammer and no storm shield. All of which are fairly easy to get but...
I too hope for the return to the days of modular kits, I mean isn't that what we really want? A DIY Inquisitor and minions kit, I would have bought a dozen of.
Nevelon wrote: To be fair, that kit is old. Details soft, old spure, just very dated.
I hate to see it go away because of what it represents, but it’s served well for far too long.
They should do a new version of it. The fact that the gravis captain has all the options gives me hope. But I could just as easily see so many choices being dropped.
It was also never that great, offering only 1 lightning claw, no thunder hammer and no storm shield. All of which are fairly easy to get but...
I too hope for the return to the days of modular kits, I mean isn't that what we really want? A DIY Inquisitor and minions kit, I would have bought a dozen of.
At the time it was out, there were less options. Once the vanguard and sternguard kits went plastic, you could just buy one of each, shake them together, and get a whole chapter’s worth of captains out of them.
But where else could you get a power armor scale LC at the time? Or a combi weapon? IIRC a lot of the options in that kit were very hard to find at the time. We are just spoiled by modern kits. Or were, before they started pareing them back. But that might be changing. Gravis captain and autach are back on the right path.
At first I thought the SM commander kit going was really bad...but then I realized that I only ever bought/used that kit once and every other SM Captain I ever built was mostly from the Vanguard Veteran kits.
Unless you really need a cloak on your captain or something. But the Company Command box will serve for that, and most of the stuff in that box is useful in 9th.
alextroy wrote: I’m surprised they are pulling the Space Marine Commander. It’s and old kit, but that removes a lot of options for First-Born Captain models from the available range.
Barring any chapter specific ones that I'm forgetting, that leaves the semi-monopose one in the company command box as the only one left. That one is pretty much locked into sword an Plasma Pistol unless you want to start snipping. It isn't too hard, but can be a pain.
Spoiler:
The bigger issue there is the moronic looking eagle wings "facial hair" on the helmet.
Man, if only you could just swap the head for literally any other Space Marine head. That would be wild. Heck, maybe even one of the spares that comes with the Command Squad the Captain is packaged with.
What's even wilder, is that the arms are separate as well so you can just swap them. And the Powerpack it seems. Damn, this kit doesn't seem so bad after all.
Does anyone still think this is 'range rotation' and that these old kits will ever come back?
To me 'range rotation' would be a Disney Vault type thing, Blood Angels are going direct only, no reprints for a while, but will be back when they get their 10th edition codex.
Which would be fine and would help GW deal with its completely unsustainable number of factions.
This seems more like old kits are going OOP, which again is fine, but shouldn't be called something else.
That's your assumption though. We don't have much of experience with GW range rotations but the last time they used that term kits have been coming back as well as out. So atm they are 1=1 on range kit meaning coming back sometime again.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Does anyone still think this is 'range rotation' and that these old kits will ever come back?
To me 'range rotation' would be a Disney Vault type thing, Blood Angels are going direct only, no reprints for a while, but will be back when they get their 10th edition codex.
Which would be fine and would help GW deal with its completely unsustainable number of factions.
This seems more like old kits are going OOP, which again is fine, but shouldn't be called something else.
My guess is that if/when they come back, it'll be via Made to Order. Very few of these kits appear to be generic enough to constantly keep in stock.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Does anyone still think this is 'range rotation' and that these old kits will ever come back?
To me 'range rotation' would be a Disney Vault type thing, Blood Angels are going direct only, no reprints for a while, but will be back when they get their 10th edition codex.
Which would be fine and would help GW deal with its completely unsustainable number of factions.
This seems more like old kits are going OOP, which again is fine, but shouldn't be called something else.
This is the same as the middle earth range. Nothing from range rotation has ever gone permanently Oop and has always come back. In fact Moria is getting a massive amount kits back in a few weeks time that haven't been seen in well over a year.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: This seems more like old kits are going OOP, which again is fine, but shouldn't be called something else.
I think it's their way of marking products as OOP without directly doing it as people are used to being able to buy decades old GW minis. And if they need to reintroduce some of those "vaulted" products they can do that without an awkward "look who's back" announcement.
My guess is that most of them will never show up again, simply because there's probably little demand for them anyways, because they are slowly written out of the rules (thus causing even less demand), or if they come back they will be remade to whatever modern standard GW will have at the time of reintroduction and replaced by that.
These range rotation announcements are simply GW's way of saying that they won't produce these kits anymore for the time being (and probably forever).
zedmeister wrote: 2 - the cynic in me is says this is another opportunity to exploit FOMO. Annoucement that they're pseudo-retiring them (to drive sales) and then, later on, bring them back for a Limited Time™ only!
Those are not the original servitors. The originals came out with the original Rogue Trader adventurers. Those are the late 
