japehlio wrote: It doesnt seeem so much 'again' as 'for the first time, albeit different way' given that they are virtually retconning storm of chaos...
But hey, if they are bringing back rules for my lovely Valten(s) Im happy, especially if this means there is even a slight chance of a redo of Teutogen Guard (hey I can dream!)
On the note of WFB time of legends stuff, Id hate it tbh. I dont want my games of wfb to feel like a historical tabletop game. Plus, as awesome as having a sigmar model would be, i dread the prospect of fighting an Undead Legion style army with Sigmar era Empire. No halberds/gunpowder/artillery/stanks/magic or warrior priests? No thank you...
Not true
Times of Legend novels often have as much mad or more powerful stuff than "modern day" - Dwarves had huge stone golems and larger and more powerful runic devices and weapons at their disposal - elves had more and larger Dragons, much bigger armies etc. Skaven are Skaven - the living armies of what are now the Tomb Kings has lots of magic and gifts of the Gods - lots of great stuff. Yeah the Empire was really the tribes but so good stuff there and interesting troop types from warrior women to berserkers.
japehlio wrote: It doesnt seeem so much 'again' as 'for the first time, albeit different way' given that they are virtually retconning storm of chaos...
Storm of Chaos was such a shambles it was retconned right after it had finished.
In other news, I've been waiting 20 years for the plot to advance. I hope it sticks this time.
jonolikespie wrote: Out of curiosity what was the fluff that came with Storm of Chaos. before this thread I hadn't even looked long enough at it to realize there was any.
However, in terms of board game Chaos was basically getting its ass kicked up and down the shop, so Archaon got magically teleported to Middenheim, whereupon Grimgor utterly decimated Archaeon.
That last part was retconned so the fluff makes it sound like Grimgor fought Archaeon after he was already basically beaten after a double team from Luthor Huss and Valten. Grimgor also didn't kill him because reasons. They said it was because Grimgor figured Archaeon was the only human who would give him a decent fight, despite kicking his face in.
Oh, and Valten was offed by an unnammed skaven assassin, probably cuz GW didn't wan't the guy who beat Archaeon around to make their Fantasy Abaddon to look bad.
jonolikespie wrote: Out of curiosity what was the fluff that came with Storm of Chaos. before this thread I hadn't even looked long enough at it to realize there was any.
There was a whole supplement book which I still have, enjoy/ed reading and even still use as source material - it was also the basis of the entire FFG Warhammer 2nd Edition FRP "modern" timeline - again which worked well.
There were some fun army lists including Carnsteins, Skaven Clan Eshin, High Elf costal raiders, Mddenheim, Dwarf Slayers etc.
Valten was offed by an unnamed Skaven assassin
IIRC its was Deathmaster Snitch?
Chaos got hammered between the forces of the Grand Alliance of Empire, Dwarves and HIgh Elves, the rampaging Orcs and Mannfred's army from Sylvania. Middenheim was pretty heavily damaged and most of its population killed, also reducing the status of the Cult of Ulric.
The Orcs wondered off - hitting stuff as they went, Mannfred backed off rather than fight the Grand Alliance.
it sounds very much like the rumoured armybook mashup is going to happen with 'the end times' being a good excuse,
so 3 (or 4) books forces of order, chaos, undead (and maybe neutrals)
so expect some stuff to no longer be fieldable as stand alone lists, and expect much more 40K allies style gaming
I'd support that, if the price was bearable. The fluff seems to allow fairly mixed armies so having the rules reflect that would be great, if it saves me having to buy multiple books for some fluffy alliances.
The only thing that's sold out on the UK site is the magic cards. If you're referring to the limited edition book being reprinted, then no, otherwise it wouldn't be limited. If you're referring to the normal edition, then sure, my guess is that they'll reprint it on a supply and demand basis.
The only thing that's sold out on the UK site is the magic cards. If you're referring to the limited edition book being reprinted, then no, otherwise it wouldn't be limited. If you're referring to the normal edition, then sure, my guess is that they'll reprint it on a supply and demand basis.
He's referring to the US site, where the normal book was showing up as 'No Longer Available'. That no longer seems to be the case.
The only thing that's sold out on the UK site is the magic cards. If you're referring to the limited edition book being reprinted, then no, otherwise it wouldn't be limited. If you're referring to the normal edition, then sure, my guess is that they'll reprint it on a supply and demand basis.
He's referring to the US site, where the normal book was showing up as 'No Longer Available'. That no longer seems to be the case.
Yes, I was refering to the 'cheapest' option - the "standard" edition.
It was indeed showing up as 'No Longer Available'.
It is now showing up as a "Pre-Order" - so...good times!
BoLS have just posted another 'what's next' rumour round up, and 'voice of the chaos gods' is saying that we're due second chapter of the end times coming late October early November
wonder (if it's true as this is the first I've seen this rumour) if it's true whether the undead will feature in that too, or if it's off to another bit of the WFB world
That's good, azrael, because I really am not interested in buying an expensive book every few months just to advance the plot... this game needs restructuring / new rules / etc...
I had a quick look at the breakdown the Pretre maintains too, and the true/false is all over the shop, it just doesn't fit that some of the things that were correct are alongside things that weren't unless it really is just guesswork, because it seems highly implausible that they could know one particular fact about an upcoming release, and yet get something else about that book/model totally wrong if they had some legitimate source.
Harriticus wrote: Holy macaroni! $105 for a single character miniature?!
It is pretty huge. It's about twice the price of a similar sized kit from Hasagawa, Revell, Tamiya, etc etc... which is about standard for GW kits. So if you find Nagash over priced, it's really no more overpriced than the rest of GW's offerings.
Heh. Just had an idea- chop it up and use it for parts- there's enough spirits there that you could probably make a few Spirit Hosts or unit fillers, the various bone-tacles and books would make nice terrain pieces or decorations, you could use the Staff as a banner (for, like, Necromancer Ogres or something)... And then chop up the rest of him and make a Nagash-y Exodia! With each body part coming out of a pentacular portal!
Isn't that what Storm of Magic was supposed to be?
It was. Since that isn't played as much, this is now GW getting larger stuff into normal games. AKA WFB: Escalation.
Will this develop the same way? First release Apocalypse, then forget it, then release Escalation, forget about it, then release a new edition which incorporates it all!
I can see the possibility of a few more "End Times" products.
Perhaps just kits or maybe another book.
Maybe we'll get a Daemon Prince version of Archaeon. Would make sense if they've "supercharged" Nagash. I'm looking forward to hearing people report back on the book when they have it with a proper fluff rundown.
We still need plastic Greater Daemons (more probable now, seeing as how they've made a giant Nagash plastic kit...AND they can be used in both Fantasy and 40k), fiends of Slaanesh, Beasts of Nurgle, etc...Maybe they can work those in.
Maybe we'll get a Daemon Prince version of Archaeon. Would make sense if they've "supercharged" Nagash. I'm looking forward to hearing people report back on the book when they have it with a proper fluff rundown.
Fango wrote: We still need plastic Greater Daemons (more probable now, seeing as how they've made a giant Nagash plastic kit...AND they can be used in both Fantasy and 40k), fiends of Slaanesh, Beasts of Nurgle, etc...Maybe they can work those in.
I wonder if you could make a LoC by sticking a chicken head and wings on the new Nagash? He’s already floating with a book and a staff…
Have you seen him? Like actually seen the model in the flesh?
He is tiny compared to Isabella. The model is in one of those bizarre old "squatting spellcaster" poses with his legs as widely spaced as they could be.
Add to it that there is a distinct lack of "good", generic Vampire sculpts(which the new plastic Mannfred as the Mortarch will go a bit to alleviate when kitbashed with the Vampire Count on Zombie Dragon) and it is really puzzling.
All kidding aside, I'd be shocked if GW didn't get all the various vamps a new sculpt, complete with now obligatory ghostie/spiritie thingamabobs.
Amusingly enough, both Mannfred and Vlad von Carstein already had those when they were in metal. The Finecast version of Vlad seems to have dropped the spirits.
As in they got rid of them, entirely. Filled the gap on the mold where the spirit would have attached even.
Maybe we'll get a Daemon Prince version of Archaeon. Would make sense if they've "supercharged" Nagash. I'm looking forward to hearing people report back on the book when they have it with a proper fluff rundown.
That wouldn't make sense fluffwise, though.
I'm not that familiar with the fluff for Archaeon/Fantasy in general beyond some of the races. Vague knowledge.
Why wouldn't that make sense if this is a step forward in the timeline? Couldn't the Gods of Chaos decide that their champion needs more power to defeat this threat or does he have to be a "Mortal" champion?
Have you seen him? Like actually seen the model in the flesh?
He is tiny compared to Isabella. The model is in one of those bizarre old "squatting spellcaster" poses with his legs as widely spaced as they could be.
Add to it that there is a distinct lack of "good", generic Vampire sculpts(which the new plastic Mannfred as the Mortarch will go a bit to alleviate when kitbashed with the Vampire Count on Zombie Dragon) and it is really puzzling.
I have the Vlad model and find nothing wrong with it, comparing him to Isabella is a bit much, she's got to be the worst of the von Carsteins, her legs are like 90% of the model's height, her hair is ridiculous and her face looks like someone broke a bar stool over it and it never healed.
I do agree we need better generic vampires though, but we've got the 5 main distinct bloodlines plus 2? From the roleplay stuff, the problem is they all have unique aesthetics, the seductive Lahmians, the heavily armoured Blood Dragons, bestial Strigoi, whithered Necrarchs and the generically generic von Carsteins. It would be a mission to represent them all in one kit, and 5 seperate kits will never happen.
Krellnus wrote: I do agree we need better generic vampires though, but we've got the 5 main distinct bloodlines plus 2? From the roleplay stuff, the problem is they all have unique aesthetics, the seductive Lahmians, the heavily armoured Blood Dragons, bestial Strigoi, whithered Necrarchs and the generically generic von Carsteins. It would be a mission to represent them all in one kit, and 5 seperate kits will never happen.
We already have Carsteins, Strigoi and Blood Dragons represented with kits, so is another two character kits really that much to ask?
Games a Workshop is incapable of sculpting a decent human so good luck with that, it's pretty poor given the number of small studios that can, so I suspect we are stuck with fugly humans and raging vampires.
N.I.B. wrote: I hated the new vampire style when they came out, and I still do. Bald and fugly. I want my vampires to look gooood!
So true!! I never understood why vampires should be bald. They are supposed to be threatening and evil but in a seductive way and therefore they are expected to look good and beautiful cretures.
corgan wrote: So true!! I never understood why vampires should be bald. They are supposed to be threatening and evil but in a seductive way and therefore they are expected to look good and beautiful cretures.
I like the Bald look when dealing with a horror vampire, but what a vampire looks like changes with culture shifts.
Krellnus wrote: I do agree we need better generic vampires though, but we've got the 5 main distinct bloodlines plus 2? From the roleplay stuff, the problem is they all have unique aesthetics, the seductive Lahmians, the heavily armoured Blood Dragons, bestial Strigoi, whithered Necrarchs and the generically generic von Carsteins. It would be a mission to represent them all in one kit, and 5 seperate kits will never happen.
We already have Carsteins, Strigoi and Blood Dragons represented with kits, so is another two character kits really that much to ask?
The Strigoi is really hard to put on foot without looking cramped on the base and the Blood Dragon doesn't really fit on any model other than the back of the dragon, even getting him on the back of a horse was a real pain, maybe if he came y'know on foot you might have a point though.
Krellnus wrote: I do agree we need better generic vampires though, but we've got the 5 main distinct bloodlines plus 2? From the roleplay stuff, the problem is they all have unique aesthetics, the seductive Lahmians, the heavily armoured Blood Dragons, bestial Strigoi, whithered Necrarchs and the generically generic von Carsteins. It would be a mission to represent them all in one kit, and 5 seperate kits will never happen.
We already have Carsteins, Strigoi and Blood Dragons represented with kits, so is another two character kits really that much to ask?
The Strigoi is really hard to put on foot without looking cramped on the base and the Blood Dragon doesn't really fit on any model other than the back of the dragon, even getting him on the back of a horse was a real pain, maybe if he came y'know on foot you might have a point though.
There's the winged vamp lord on foot and the Blood Knights for Blood Dragon models. Some of those issues can be solved with converting. All I'm saying is that three of those five representations are in the range, in some form or another. Therefore it would only take two more kits to cover them. Of course, it would just be better to have five blister packs with foot and mounted options, but... that brings us back to the "too much to ask" situation. My suggestion is smaller and therefore more likely (however unlikely that remains).
Krellnus wrote: I do agree we need better generic vampires though, but we've got the 5 main distinct bloodlines plus 2? From the roleplay stuff, the problem is they all have unique aesthetics, the seductive Lahmians, the heavily armoured Blood Dragons, bestial Strigoi, whithered Necrarchs and the generically generic von Carsteins. It would be a mission to represent them all in one kit, and 5 seperate kits will never happen.
We already have Carsteins, Strigoi and Blood Dragons represented with kits, so is another two character kits really that much to ask?
The Strigoi is really hard to put on foot without looking cramped on the base and the Blood Dragon doesn't really fit on any model other than the back of the dragon, even getting him on the back of a horse was a real pain, maybe if he came y'know on foot you might have a point though.
There's the winged vamp lord on foot and the Blood Knights for Blood Dragon models.
So a generic Vampire Lord(because that's what he is.) and a $100 kit are viable "Blood Dragon" options?
Honestly, they should have included a foot version (or at least a second set of legs) for the Blood Dragon on the Zombie Dragon.
Some of those issues can be solved with converting. All I'm saying is that three of those five representations are in the range, in some form or another. Therefore it would only take two more kits to cover them. Of course, it would just be better to have five blister packs with foot and mounted options, but... that brings us back to the "too much to ask" situation. My suggestion is smaller and therefore more likely (however unlikely that remains).
Given the amount of mount options and other things that exist, it would have been far smarter for GW to have released a boxed, plastic Vampire Count set. It could have easily been done in such a way that one would be able to build a Von Carstein or Blood Dragon(the two which are actually missing foot options that are easy to convert/represent).
Kanluwen wrote: So a generic Vampire Lord(because that's what he is.) and a $100 kit are viable "Blood Dragon" options?
Correct.
As a modeller, you're not limited to those kits, neither are you limited to the VC range in order to build VC options/characters. You call him "generic"... yet I can't picture him as anything but either a Blood Dragon or a Carstein, or, as you say simply a "generic" Vampire lieutenant/warrior. That's three options right off the bat. For one model, not bad in my opinion.
Honestly, they should have included a foot version (or at least a second set of legs) for the Blood Dragon on the Zombie Dragon.
Also Correct.
But again, there are many conversion/kitbash/counts-as options.
Given the amount of mount options and other things that exist, it would have been far smarter for GW to have released a boxed, plastic Vampire Count set. It could have easily been done in such a way that one would be able to build a Von Carstein or Blood Dragon(the two which are actually missing foot options that are easy to convert/represent).
That's three for three. It's easy to sit back and say GW should've or could've done this, that and the other. But as we find out time and time again GW aren't exactly the most logical or customer-friendly miniature company when it comes to their ranges and kits.
Alpharius wrote: I can't believe the 'regular edition' of this book is 'direct only'.
Ugh.
I was all ready to be "WTF are you talking about Alpharius, I've seen it on Dark Sphere's site?".....then I read their small print..."this is a limited release product"
Alpharius wrote: I can't believe the 'regular edition' of this book is 'direct only'.
Ugh.
I was all ready to be "WTF are you talking about Alpharius, I've seen it on Dark Sphere's site?".....then I read their small print..."this is a limited release product"
Nothing at all about it being "limited release" on the GW site?
Wayland has the book on pre-order, and GW is not listing it as direct only. The only items that are webstore exclusive is the limited edition and the bundle.
Medium of Death wrote: It looks like it isn't on the Darksphere. The model for Nagash is though.
It's under "rulebooks".
I e-mailed Dark Sphere to ask why it says it's a limited release.
Aha!
Darksphere wrote:This two hardback, full colour book set comes in a sturdy slip case.
Book 1 details the cataclysmic events affecting every race in the Warhammer world and the return of Nagash, whilst Book 2 contains the rules for Nagash, along with a new lore, new miniatures, rules for fielding an Undead Legion of Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings, and more.
This is a limited release product, and can't be dispatched via Mail Order until September 3rd. It can be picked up in store normally from August 30th.
Given that supplements for 40k were initially direct only but more recent ones have been available at indies, it's possible GW have moved to wide-releasing the books before withdrawing to direct only.
Do we know if the Nagash book has everything you need to play in it for the undead legion? or if you need both the tomb kings and vampire counts books as well?
Nevelon wrote: Do we know if the Nagash book has everything you need to play in it for the undead legion? or if you need both the tomb kings and vampire counts books as well?
I had read I'd does have everything. If I find the link again I'll post it.
Nevelon wrote: Do we know if the Nagash book has everything you need to play in it for the undead legion? or if you need both the tomb kings and vampire counts books as well?
I had read I'd does have everything. If I find the link again I'll post it.
Cool. I might just pick this up. Of course, I’d have to re-base my old Nagash to fit the profile of the new one. Maybe one of the arcane fulcrums from Storm of Magic would work...
To stimulate sales move desirable items to direct only. This is essentially a 20-25% price hike for those relying on discounters to stay in such an expensive game.
Nagash is reborn into the body of Volkmar. Morgiana le Fay is killed in the process, she's the daughter of the Lady of the Lake, one of the Elves lesser gods - Ladrielle. Nagash's plan wsa to free Shysh from the Vortex and bind it to himself to become an avatar of death, strong enough to challange the Chaos Gods themselves.
Another important sacrifice is Aliathra, supposedly daughter to Finubar and Alarielle. Nagash needs devine blood (Volkmar having that of Sigmar) However, she's not Finubar's daughter, but Tyrions. Therefor Nagash cannot draw upon the strength of Assuryan, but instead inherits the curse of Aenarion. It turns out that Teclis has willingly sacrificed Aliathra to rebirth Nagash into the World to fight Chaos. He's conspireing with someone calling him nephew to destabilize the Vortex.
Alpharius wrote: The Miniature Market is saying the same thing as The Warstore:
Regretfully, while Games Workshop has made the Nagash model available to us, the accompanying book will be available direct from Games Workshop only.
This kind of thing is why independent retailers have a problem with GW, it must drive them up the fething wall.
I bet most of them would like to tell the reps exactly what they think of that particular deal, but if they're a wargame-centric store they will have to just grit their teeth and take it..
Alpharius wrote: The Miniature Market is saying the same thing as The Warstore:
Regretfully, while Games Workshop has made the Nagash model available to us, the accompanying book will be available direct from Games Workshop only.
This kind of thing is why independent retailers have a problem with GW, it must drive them up the fething wall.
I bet most of them would like to tell the reps exactly what they think of that particular deal, but if they're a wargame-centric store they will have to just grit their teeth and take it..
If GW are wondering why they are losing market share, this is a big part of it IMO. FLGS's can't just drop GW product that easily when they are unhappy with GW, but a trend I've noticed in FLGS's and also online stores like The Combat Company is to stop actively promoting GW products. In the late 90's when I started, you could walk in to several of the local FLGS's and walk out with GW product without even noticing any other wargames because the GW stock was prominently displayed, these days you have to wade through a pile of other games to find the GW stuff at a corner in the back of the shop. It's kind of hard to ignore the fact other games do exist and they have models that are cheaper when you are almost tripping over them to get to the GW products.
Lore Attribute: Raise the Dead
Place a raise the dead counter on the battlefield each time a friendly wizard successfully casts a spell from the lore of undeath. Any friendly wizard that subsequently casts a summoning spell from the lore of undeath can choose to expend one or more counters after they have successfully cast their spell. For each counter expended, increase the points worth of the models summoned by that spell by +10 points.
There are three summoning spells, a direct damage and 2 augments in the lore. Hardest spell to cast is the sixth spell (natch) that can summon a single unit of cavalry, monstrous cavalry or chariots worth up to 150 points from the undead legions army list. That goes off on a 16+. Regular versions of the other spells are all at 10+ or less.
Hmm interesting about the book dropping back to GW direct - I checked a few of the UK online stores as I had preordered from one;
4TK have removed the book, Element Games has marked as Direct Only, Outpost still has it listed, Wayland does, but with a 6th september ship date....all in all it seems confused.
I was pretty excited for this and looking to get back into WFB after nine years, but TBH if GW have purposely restricted this then they can do one as I'm not buying direct at a 20% markup just because they have mismanaged their business from a point of monopoly to a desperate last stand !
Alpharius wrote: The Miniature Market is saying the same thing as The Warstore:
Regretfully, while Games Workshop has made the Nagash model available to us, the accompanying book will be available direct from Games Workshop only.
GW produces something that seems to get a lot of people excited, even those often cynical about their product, and then contrives to do something to piss almost everyone off by an almost exactly equal amount.
So the Tomb Kings side of things get a nice buff in the new army.
Tomb Kings can march within 12" of the General.
I think they also benefit with the restructuring of the raising mechanics but some one more well versed is welcome to correct me.
Also Nagash is such a badass that he maintains the magical link keeping the undead functioning so losing your general no longer triggers the slow crumbling of your forces.
Well if that book extract is any indication Vlad was dead when these events began to kick off, although his spirit was still floating around. Perhaps he'll be back in a new body, similar to Nagash...
Medium of Death wrote: Well if that book extract is any indication Vlad was dead when these events began to kick off, although his spirit was still floating around. Perhaps he'll be back in a new body, similar to Nagash...
Last week's White Dwarf flatout states that Vlad is indeed a part of this, and is one of the Mortarchs.
If i ever decide to make a VC/Undead Legion army, it will be the Vampires Clans of Nosgoth with each Lieutenants( before they mutated and a mutated version)
Vlad has a profile in this book. He is 500 points and very similar some small changes.
Total side note. This book is gorgeous. The 296 fluff piece is amazingly well done. The rule book has a lot of cool missions to play I think I counted 18. They are a tad bit specific in my mind but still some tweeks and they are right on.
The real winner is the big book though. It's rich on detail and the artwork is lights out.
Medium of Death wrote: Well if that book extract is any indication Vlad was dead when these events began to kick off, although his spirit was still floating around. Perhaps he'll be back in a new body, similar to Nagash...
Last week's White Dwarf flatout states that Vlad is indeed a part of this, and is one of the Mortarchs.
lobbywatson wrote:Vlad has a profile in this book. He is 500 points and very similar some small changes.
Total side note. This book is gorgeous. The 296 fluff piece is amazingly well done. The rule book has a lot of cool missions to play I think I counted 18. They are a tad bit specific in my mind but still some tweeks and they are right on.
The real winner is the big book though. It's rich on detail and the artwork is lights out.
I am not sure what all the various comments about the book being direct are about. Our store (Games and Stuff in MD) is getting a number of the books tomorrow and were all available as part of our weekly GW order.
Vlad Von Carstein got a pretty hefty buff from my quick glimpse at his rules. Minus the "Beloved in Death" rule, he has the exact same stats, magic weapons and special rules as before and from memory he didn't lose any of his Vampiric Powers either. He went up 5 points but gained the "Mortarch of 'x'" special rule where enemies are at -1 to hit him and his unit in both shooting and close combat, plus I also think he causes Terror or something like that. He's been buffed pretty ridiculously, that's for sure! I can't wait to see how he does in a Grave Guard unit with the Banner of the Barrows....*shudders*.
Also some FYI's on Neferata, her "I turn you into a Vampire" rule only works once, she has Always Strikes First as a special rule (no Vampiric Powers) and enemies are indeed -1 to hit her in close combat and I think with shooting attacks as well. She's definitely the best Mortarch in close combat but obviously the most fragile with the least magic potential.
Same here, now that Neferata has been released and I can combine the aspects of both model ranges I like I'm going full steam ahead with a Lahmian/Egyptian theme.
Got a pretty fast reply from the UK store I preordered the book/cards from. They say that the book is not direct only however they stopped taking orders as they have now met the maximum they can order of the book until GW makes it known what they can order for the next available batch.
The magic cards however have been limited for indies to a maximum of one pack per book ordered, the upshot being that this particular place will be cancelling any orders for cards alone unless someone has ordered the book and not the cards, in which case it gives them a spare pack of cards to fulfill a small number of these orders.
Given the number of people I know just in my local area who have been like "Nagash ? Buying that!" I would tend to believe this. However the proof will be Saturday/Monday when indies start shipping, or not......
My local FGS carries the book too. And Wayland for example got it listed, too. They even have a 25% discount on it. Don't know where this direct only stuff comes from. All stores I checked do have it on offer or at least had. Some seized to take orders for now since they already sold all copies they ordered and do not want to take orders for products they do not know when they can deliver.
Lore Attribute: Raise the Dead
Place a raise the dead counter on the battlefield each time a friendly wizard successfully casts a spell from the lore of undeath. Any friendly wizard that subsequently casts a summoning spell from the lore of undeath can choose to expend one or more counters after they have successfully cast their spell. For each counter expended, increase the points worth of the models summoned by that spell by +10 points.
There are three summoning spells, a direct damage and 2 augments in the lore. Hardest spell to cast is the sixth spell (natch) that can summon a single unit of cavalry, monstrous cavalry or chariots worth up to 150 points from the undead legions army list. That goes off on a 16+. Regular versions of the other spells are all at 10+ or less.
So Nagash casting that 6th spell is a 450pt unit.....
Lorien wrote: My local FGS carries the book too. And Wayland for example got it listed, too. They even have a 25% discount on it. Don't know where this direct only stuff comes from.
Because, if people asking these questions had read the topic properly, the question is not "are indies getting the book?" (they are, everyone understands this) but "are indies going to be stocking the book on an ongoing basis?"
So far Dark Sphere have indicated to me that once it sells out they won't get any more and apparently Miniature Market and The Warstore have said the same to Alpharius.
Lore Attribute: Raise the Dead
Place a raise the dead counter on the battlefield each time a friendly wizard successfully casts a spell from the lore of undeath. Any friendly wizard that subsequently casts a summoning spell from the lore of undeath can choose to expend one or more counters after they have successfully cast their spell. For each counter expended, increase the points worth of the models summoned by that spell by +10 points.
There are three summoning spells, a direct damage and 2 augments in the lore. Hardest spell to cast is the sixth spell (natch) that can summon a single unit of cavalry, monstrous cavalry or chariots worth up to 150 points from the undead legions army list. That goes off on a 16+. Regular versions of the other spells are all at 10+ or less.
So Nagash casting that 6th spell is a 450pt unit.....
Given the perfect conditions...Nagash could *potentially* summon another Nagash.
I ordered the book and cards from Wayland as soon as it went up. They e-mailed me on Wednesday saying the cards had been cancelled. When I rang them to sort out the refund, they said GW had told them they couldn't actually have any packs of cards as they had sold out. They were still getting the books, but they were being delayed by a week (only to independents, not to GW stores). Didn't say anything about them being made direct only or similar.
The new lore is good. It's got hefty numbers for successful casting. It's good though. Damn good. You can also buy the summoned units normal upgrades as listed in their profile.
Neferatra at first glance I was like ehhh. Then after thinking gee 8 wounds, asf, I 9, 8 attacks, lvl 3, -1 to hit. Holy feth..
Eldarain wrote: So the Tomb Kings side of things get a nice buff in the new army.
Tomb Kings can march within 12" of the General.
I think they also benefit with the restructuring of the raising mechanics but some one more well versed is welcome to correct me.
Also Nagash is such a badass that he maintains the magical link keeping the undead functioning so losing your general no longer triggers the slow crumbling of your forces.
Looking at what you pposted, those are some big changes. Marching is a huge difference, and the change to raising is big too (1 wound/casting vs 1 per phase actually makes healing constructs possible) Not particularly mentioned is that the Heirophant rule is gone, which has a couple effects besides crumbling. You don't get a unit with regen for free, but you do get to have a lot more freedom with your magic lores, since this is the rule that held that back. So Lv.4 on death + 2 x Lv2 on Nehekarah is legal and easily doable.
Were these pictures your own? If so, I'm interested in knowing if I can mix VC characters in TK units, and if I have to take any lore of undeath casters. If not, I can just call it a day and play TK as Undead Legions and gain a few big bonuses to make it a half decent army again.
Morghasts are supposed to be next week's preorders, but today is supposed to be the Mortarchs and some army sets.
Sweet.
I'm looking forward to seeing these units in closer detail. Transitional Khemri war constructs with more of a Vampiric flair.
I take it they are going with a four horsemen vibe with Vlad, Mannfred, Arkan & Neferata ?
Kinda/sorta?
There are five Mortarchs.
Vlad von Carstein is the Mortarch of Shadow
Mannfred von Carstein is the Mortarch of Night
Arkhan the Black is the Mortarch of Sacrament
Neferata is the Mortarch of Blood
Krell is the Mortarch of Despair
Not since Vlad is purportedly still his dwarfish self in the model photos for the book.
Krell and Vlad are also purportedly on foot. They also would not really work as a dual kit. Plus the Finecast version of Krell is still pretty damn nice.
Yeah Krell looks great still, no need for a replacement but having the option of throwing him on a monstrous steed would have been cool if only for aesthetic reasons.
Charles Rampant wrote: Is the entire Tomb King army listing available in this new army combination, or is it only some units? Sorry for the stupidly huge question!
Nagash
Mannfred von Carstein, Mortarch of Night
Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament
Neferata, Mortarch of Blood
Krell, Mortarch of Despair
Vlad von Carstein, Mortarch of Shadow
Vampire Lord
High Necromancer
Ghoul King Strigoi
High Queen Khalida
Tomb King
High Liche Priest
Heroes
Necromancer
Vampire
Wight King
Cairn Wraith
Tomb Banshee
Prince Apophas
Tomb Prince
Tomb Herald
Liche Priest
Necrotect
Varghulfs
Blood Knights
Cairn Wraiths
Black Coach
Terrorgheist
Mortis Engine
Bones Giant
Hierotitan
Necrosphinx
Screaming Skull Catapult
Casket of Souls
Morghast Archai
I think it's all of them.
Hopefully this works as a standalone book. I think people have said it does, but I'm wary until people start getting those copies in their hands!
Anybody thinking of potential conversions for this release? I'm contemplating combining some Tomb & Grave guard to create a fusion of both styles. Perhaps combing the torso of the TG with the legs of the GG. Will require a snip and pinning but hopefully be worth it.
Anybody thinking of potential conversions for this release? I'm contemplating combining some Tomb & Grave guard to create a fusion of both styles. Perhaps combing the torso of the TG with the legs of the GG. Will require a snip and pinning but hopefully be worth it.
Mostly looking from a TK player's perspective (with a lot of the old Wargods of Egyptus figs to work with), but just a few here:
* Using the chariot body on a flight stand being pulled by horde mummies (substitute skeletons) and a Necormancer or mage on top as a Mortis Engine.
* A bunch of the old Wargods Abominations as Crypt Horrors.
* A mounted Mummy as a Wight Lord. Nice in that you can now have your general on horse and he doesn't need to be a caster, so you can get someone very cost effective to create a march bubble for faster if you don't take a Vampire Lord or Tomb King.
* If you can find some older scorpions from say reaper (they have some excellent ones) you can have skeletons/mummies riding or being pulled by them for Necropolis Knights.
The main reason I never bought into the TK army is due to their horribly dated core units. In order for me to really dig a Warhammer army, the core units need to look great (they are your bread and butter, no?). I have a few TK models that I got for Warhammer Quest randomly generated monsters (mummies, carrion, etc.)...but I refuse to pay money for their horrible skeleton and skeletal steed models...It will be cool to have an excuse to buy some of the cooler TK models (Ushabti and Sepulchral Stalkers, I'm looking at you!) and be able to use them with vastly superior looking VC models (Ok, the zombies need updating pretty badly). If GW release new TK skeletons/skeletal horses(& chariots)/skeleton archers, my pocket book and I are going to have some serious disagreements.
The other thing I'm worried about...especially in the vein of converting models in one range to match the aesthetics of the other is...will this Nagash army be playable in all games? Or is it like 40K apocalypse, where you need to have your opponents' "buy-in" to field this combined army in an "End Times" game?
Not sure I'd want to go to all that trouble if I can't get anyone to agree to a game...
Fango wrote: The other thing I'm worried about...especially in the vein of converting models in one range to match the aesthetics of the other is...will this Nagash army be playable in all games? Or is it like 40K apocalypse, where you need to have your opponents' "buy-in" to field this combined army in an "End Times" game?
Not sure I'd want to go to all that trouble if I can't get anyone to agree to a game...
It's only a guess... but I'd say (at this moment in time) that yes, you'll have "regular" Fantasy Battle games, and then "End Times" battles and scenarios with all the souped up uber goodies and such. Like Apoc or Escalation for 40K.
The next batch of preorders are up, and while looking at the product description for Neferata I noticed this interesting little tidbit:
The full rules for using Neferata, Mortarch of Blood in games of Warhammer are included in Warhammer: Nagash. They can also be found in the construction booklet that accompanies the miniature.
The product descriptions for Mannfred and Arkhan say the same. I wonder of this is a one time deal or a change on GW's part?
Element games have the Mortarchs at 20% off, so a nice chunk of savings. This release is making me want to do a massive Undead army with Mantic core models and go to town on the GW character kits.
Ghaz wrote: The next batch of preorders are up, and while looking at the product description for Neferata I noticed this interesting little tidbit:
The full rules for using Neferata, Mortarch of Blood in games of Warhammer are included in Warhammer: Nagash. They can also be found in the construction booklet that accompanies the miniature.
The product descriptions for Mannfred and Arkhan say the same. I wonder of this is a one time deal or a change on GW's part?
Nice! It'll probably stay in the box, just like some of 40Ks fortifications.
Well, by 'one time deal' I meant were these the only models that are getting their rules added in the box with the miniatures or will we be seeing this with other future releases as well.
Fango wrote: The main reason I never bought into the TK army is due to their horribly dated core units. In order for me to really dig a Warhammer army, the core units need to look great (they are your bread and butter, no?). I have a few TK models that I got for Warhammer Quest randomly generated monsters (mummies, carrion, etc.)...but I refuse to pay money for their horrible skeleton and skeletal steed models...It will be cool to have an excuse to buy some of the cooler TK models (Ushabti and Sepulchral Stalkers, I'm looking at you!) and be able to use them with vastly superior looking VC models (Ok, the zombies need updating pretty badly). If GW release new TK skeletons/skeletal horses(& chariots)/skeleton archers, my pocket book and I are going to have some serious disagreements.
I just used figures from Crocodile Games (mostly Eaters of the Dead, but I also did some of the animal-headed guys done as stone statues for crews and Ushabti) for almost everything in the army. Only GW stuff is some converted cav and chariots. I'd suggest looking there if you want stuff that looks nice. You'll pay more per fig, but you get some very nice metal figures.
Man, I'm just skimming through the Return of Nagash novel and there are some genuinely surprising deaths of characters that have been around for years, decades even. It's like GW is creating a clean slate in the WHFB world.
Seriously. Is this the new precedent for mounted characters?
Automatically Appended Next Post: We won't see them too often though... if we're talking a standard game with 25% lords, you'd have to be 2600+ points just to field one.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The fluff book is fantasticly well presented. It reminds me a lot of Tamurkhan in the quality of its writing and presentation, the way it outlines the events of the battles and what happens in between.
Question for those with the new Nagash book: does this mean that Corpse Carts can give ASF to everyone?
Because honestly I think Tomb Guard w/ Halberds and the ASF from Vigor Mortis (to counter Elf Elites) would be better than Grave Guard (that said, grave guard have heavy armour vs. Light armour, so it's a toss up really...
replace every occurence of 'Nehekharan Undead' with 'Undead'. If a special rule affects models with the Undead special rule, it also effects models with the Nehekharan Undead special rule, and vice-versa.
I actually think theres some great ways of combining the three undead magic lores as a result
nagash is pretty cool but those three dudes on the mounts are derpy looking.
whats with the skulls flying off the back ankles?
neferata looks like she is about to fall off or slide down that derpy armour collar plating thing. that pose worked on the bretonnian sorceress riding unicorn. it does not work at all here. she needs to be sitting normally and hanging on. it looks stupid at the moment. and the hat, enough said.
and something is not right with mannfreds arms. could be the painting.
edit: and neferata's dress. its not really convincing me of movement it kinda looks like.... a big chunk of plastic......
I hope this draws people back into Fantasty. Being able to use a lot of the VC stuff, including their rules in my TK army, will make a huge difference.
replace every occurence of 'Nehekharan Undead' with 'Undead'. If a special rule affects models with the Undead special rule, it also effects models with the Nehekharan Undead special rule, and vice-versa.
I actually think theres some great ways of combining the three undead magic lores as a result
And don't forget My Will Be Done for things like Graveguard and Black Knights combined with banner of the Barrows....
replace every occurence of 'Nehekharan Undead' with 'Undead'. If a special rule affects models with the Undead special rule, it also effects models with the Nehekharan Undead special rule, and vice-versa.
I actually think theres some great ways of combining the three undead magic lores as a result
Is that just for magic?
I'm thinking: My Will Be Done. Get a cheap Tomb Prince in a unit of VC Grave Guard with GW or HW/S (WS5 on the unit then). After that you give them Banner of the Barrows (+1 to Hit) so hitting on 3+, or 2+ if they're WS4 or lower. Now you get Lore of Nehekara and some Corpse Carts to back up the unit (for ASF). Then you cast Cursed Blades (KB on 5+) and potentially Van Hel's Danse Macarbe (depending on how you pick your lores) for the following:
Hitting on 3+/2+ (with ASF from corpse cart), at S4 or S6, Killing Blow on 5+/6+ (potentially rerolling with Hellish Vigor). Expensive unit, but toe to toe against anything other than Ogres (and you can at least resurrect this unit for either 1, d3+1 or d6+caster level per spell) they don't stand a chance. I would actually suggest HW/S simply so the unit always has ASF, but that means the unit will suffer against Monstrous Infantry and monsters (and generally things which can't be KB'd).
The issue is jamming in enough cheap spellcasters where they can't be sniped straight up (so you get the spells you need reliably).
EDIT: scrap the Cursed Blades, now you only want a level 1 Liche Priest for Incantation of the Desert Wind as a compliment to Van Hel's so you can bump your movement to x3 or x4 normal movement.
Also a Necrotect is a cheap way to get Hatred into all your VC units now. Your ghouls will love that.
nels1031 wrote: Man, I'm just skimming through the Return of Nagash novel and there are some genuinely surprising deaths of characters that have been around for years, decades even. It's like GW is creating a clean slate in the WHFB world.
So excited!
Care to give a rundown of who's dead, for those of us who actually like the background as it was and now have the "fun" and "excitement" of figuring out how much of our stuff has been written out?
Stuff isn't written out- think of all the pre-End Times heroes and villains that have rules and models (Gorbad, Vlad, Isabella, Grom the Paunch, Konrad, etc etc, lots) but are dead. Lots of people still use them in their armies though.
now the same is true for more characters.
other than that, it shouldn't be too hard to figure things out. Custom army from Tilea? They luckily escaped the destruction of their land, and now really hate skaven.
Seriously. Is this the new precedent for mounted characters?
Automatically Appended Next Post: We won't see them too often though... if we're talking a standard game with 25% lords, you'd have to be 2600+ points just to field one.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The fluff book is fantasticly well presented. It reminds me a lot of Tamurkhan in the quality of its writing and presentation, the way it outlines the events of the battles and what happens in between.
Hm I have to actually compliment GW's rules department on combined monster profile.. That's possiblythe only way to make mounted characters remotely playable. Perhaps they aren't due to points limits, but at least they aren't bottom-of-the-barrel terrible as a single model.
thenoobbomb wrote: So, how come Vlad is back..? Pretty sure he died, and his ring was stolen..
The ring being stolen isn't necessarily going to stop Vlad from coming back. The guy got beheaded, staked, and burnt but still he came back from that. Not only did he come back he then returned the favor on the High Priest of Ulrik in Middenheim.
Isabella really was the only one that wouldn't be coming back since she crumbled to dust.
thenoobbomb wrote: So, how come Vlad is back..? Pretty sure he died, and his ring was stolen..
The ring being stolen isn't necessarily going to stop Vlad from coming back. The guy got beheaded, staked, and burnt but still he came back from that. Not only did he come back he then returned the favor on the High Priest of Ulrik in Middenheim.
Isabella really was the only one that wouldn't be coming back since she crumbled to dust.
He got back because of his ring. His ring was stolen (Mannfred got it), his heart was burned, his head chopped off and eyes stuffed with garlic, and then buried separately in Altdorf's Cathedral, beneath the Grand Theogonist.
nels1031 wrote: Man, I'm just skimming through the Return of Nagash novel and there are some genuinely surprising deaths of characters that have been around for years, decades even. It's like GW is creating a clean slate in the WHFB world.
So excited!
Care to give a rundown of who's dead, for those of us who actually like the background as it was and now have the "fun" and "excitement" of figuring out how much of our stuff has been written out?
Spoiler:
Here's what I got:
Volkmar's body is used as the host of Nagash.
Eltharion gets vaporized by Arkhan the Black.
The Fey Enchantress of Bretonnia gets her throat slit in the ritual to resurrect Nagash.
Heinrich Kemmler dies at the hands of Arkhan.
A Bretonnian lord, name that slips my mind.
Nothing too earth shattering, but still a lot for one novel that kicks off this event. Just getting started and some iconic characters have fallen
thenoobbomb wrote: I do love how Kemmler is dead, and Krell lives. It's been hinted at for a while that Krell isn't under Kemmler's control, as the latter likes to think
I'd love to see Krell's past as a champion of Khorne expanded upon, given Nagash' attempt at challenging the chaos gods. It always felt kind of funky that Khorne would allow one of his champions to be a puppet of another force.
There are actually waaay more "dead"/ killed major characters:
Spoiler:
The king of the brets is dead. Ariel the queen of wood elves is dying, and the everqueen is trying to help her. Araloth has gone missing after using some weird gem from his goddess. Kemmler isn't dead, just locked away somewhere. A high elf princess is now a vampire. Gelt, I think has been turned evil, or is just working with Vlad. Karl Franz isn't dead, but is badly wounded and is trying to rescue his griffon which is chained up, surronded by beasts. Crom got crushed by Valten. The scarab prince, Apophas?, died/ slashed changed sides, and Settra, well he gets "killed" by Nagash, but four voices tell him they need his help after he resurrects. Teclis is in league with someone who calls Teclis his "nephew", and Thorek Ironbrow is also dead.
I need to read it more to get more little info, but the fluff is epic and well worth getting, just for the bloodshed.
is about to go down. 
