Kanluwen wrote: White Dwarf has them as an army unto themselves and able to be taken as Allies.
Battle Brothers: Eldar+Dark Eldar
Allies of Convenience: Armies of the Imperium and Tau Empire
Desperate Allies: Orks
Come the Apocalypse: Everyone else.
Same as Eldar, it seems. Pretty much what everyone should have been expecting, both fluff-wise and mechanics-wise.
While WHFB is collapsing their range with the End Times and the new edition, 40k is expanding with mini-factions like the Imperial Knights and Harlequins.
I wonder if they'll release plastic Sisters of Battle before I get my TGotG figures?
Not 100% sure, but I think it is:
Base of Balthasar Gold
Shade with Nuln Oil or Agrax Earthshade
Apply a layer of Sycorax Bronze
Shade with Seraphim Sepia
Breotan wrote: While WHFB is collapsing their range with the End Times and the new edition, 40k is expanding with mini-factions like the Imperial Knights and Harlequins.
I wonder if they'll release plastic Sisters of Battle before I get my TGotG figures?
There was the rumor of an admech force on the horizon. Maybe these little stand alone/alied releases will be the trend for this year.
On topic.
I have high hopes for the dedicated transport from this Harli dex.
Kanluwen wrote: Not 100% sure, but I think it is:
Base of Balthasar Gold
Shade with Nuln Oil or Agrax Earthshade
Apply a layer of Sycorax Bronze
Shade with Seraphim Sepia
Thanks for the shopping list! Exactly what I was looking for.
Kanluwen wrote: Not 100% sure, but I think it is:
Base of Balthasar Gold
Shade with Nuln Oil or Agrax Earthshade
Apply a layer of Sycorax Bronze
Shade with Seraphim Sepia
Thanks for the shopping list! Exactly what I was looking for.
As alternate approaches, you might want to try:
Base of Screaming Bell
Shade with Agrax Earthshade or Nuln Oil
Apply a layer of Auric Armor Gold
Shade with Nuln Oil/Earthshade
Base of Warplock Bronze
Shade with Earthshade or Oil
Apply a layer of Brass Scorpion
Shade with Sepia, Oil, or Earthshade as you want
Gehenna's Gold, Runelord Brass, or Hashut Copper can all be used to substitute for the layers though. Personally I am becoming fond of Sycorax Bronze though.
Thanks again, Kanluwen. I've been putting a lot of thought into my scheme for the Harlies, as I have a finecast squad fully painted, but hate the color scheme I used the first time around.
On another note, it looks pretty clear that the jetbikes will need to be taken in large units in order to make the most of them. A unit of 2 is probably not going to have the power to really make a difference in close combat, which would leave them basically as just a gun platform similar to the Vyper. So I'm thinking 4 is a minimum, as then you have enough bodies that you can shift wounded bikes to the back, plus enough attacks to mulch larger infantry squads.
Oh man... those don't hold a candle to the old jetbikes. The faces on the "hoods" just look tacked on, rather than encompassing the whole jetbike as a laughing machine of death...
I dunno, 17 points for a Guardian jet bike, 6 pts to upgrade the pilot to a harlequin, 15 more points for a second harlequin, 10 points for the shuriken cannon upgrade, thats 48 points , so 2 points for the grenade launcher plus the crazy 1 shot bolas thing, plus whatever else they have.
It costs out roughly where I'd have expected it.
Oh man... those don't hold a candle to the old jetbikes. The faces on the "hoods" just look tacked on, rather than encompassing the whole jetbike as a laughing machine of death...
The funny part is that the "hoods" on the old ones were just an add-on bit themselves...
Well I'll reserve judgement on these until I see the whole kit, cause I'm guessing they have a squad leader character for those jet bikes.He/she may have a more pimp looking ride than the others. Also- methinks some of the Sisters of Slaughter heads might look pretty cool on the Harlequins..
Oh man... those don't hold a candle to the old jetbikes. The faces on the "hoods" just look tacked on, rather than encompassing the whole jetbike as a laughing machine of death...
The funny part is that the "hoods" on the old ones were just an add-on bit themselves...
And really looked it. Nostalgia props up those canopies quite nicely.
I like the compromise here. Leaves room for freehand and airbrush work.
angelofvengeance wrote: Well I'll reserve judgement on these until I see the whole kit, cause I'm guessing they have a squad leader character for those jet bikes.He/she may have a more pimp looking ride than the others. Also- methinks some of the Sisters of Slaughter heads might look pretty cool on the Harlequins..
I'm hoping so as well. Have a box of Witch Elves that I never ended up using for Death Cultist, I think they should blend nicely.
Oh man... those don't hold a candle to the old jetbikes. The faces on the "hoods" just look tacked on, rather than encompassing the whole jetbike as a laughing machine of death...
The funny part is that the "hoods" on the old ones were just an add-on bit themselves...
And really looked it. Nostalgia props up those canopies quite nicely.
I like the compromise here. Leaves room for freehand and airbrush work.
And I'm sure that these could probably just be left off if someone(like me for example...) wanted to.
Raesvelg wrote: Is it wrong that I'm quietly hoping that these have an option to just leave off the 2nd rider and play them as a regular Eldar Jetbike?
Because otherwise my old Harlequin bikes represent a bit more conversion effort than I feel like putting forth.
You could just do that, if it isn't an option anyway. Leave the back guy off, and make the Harly more generic Eldar. It looks like it'd be bigger but does that affect their rules at all?
Januine wrote: Anyone started thinking of/coming up with colour schemes and name for their Masque yet?!
I don't know. Part of me wants to go dark with bright spot colours for contrast, another says go full-on Joker with them (purple capes, painted stylised faces ect), the rest I don't know. The biggest trouble I'm having is deciding whether to allocate funds to them or to the Malifaux multi-part RPG minis.
Initial thoughts are yellow/red checks/stripes/whatever with a dark blue highlighting to turquoise as the darker split.
Also tempted to just go old school bananas with them. I've always liked the more uniform Harlequin schemes though. There was a blue-white troupe that was in WD back in the day that looked good.
I'm also thinking of picking up some wraithguard to stick masks on as the foundation of the eldar part of the list.
Haywire canon is 24", S4, Ap4, heavy 1 blast and haywire.
Mirage launchers: once per game 4++ against shooting instead of Jinking.
Star bolas: 12", S6, Ap2, assault 1, blast, one use, and can use in addition to jetbike weapon.
Zephyroglaive: S:user Ap3 when not charging, S+1, Ap2 when charging
One is old school Rogue Trader scheme. No diamonds but each arm, leg and torso will be a different bright gaudy colour complete with goblin Green bases flocked.
Or
Sin City style black and white with a single splash of colour on marble bases.
One is old school Rogue Trader scheme. No diamonds but each arm, leg and torso will be a different bright gaudy colour complete with goblin Green bases flocked.
Or
Sin City style black and white with a single splash of colour on marble bases.
Rules are.....interesting. It's borderline good. I think the rules for the jetbike and the actual codex/detachment rules are going to matter a bit more than with the other units.
Then it counts as a power sword which is better then the power lance. You can also use hit and run shenanigans to keep getting that Str. 5 AP 2 goodness.
Those one use explosive bola weapons might catch some people of guard as well. Dropping a couple of Str. 6 AP 2 blast templates can be super nasty and you can still shoot the jetbikes guns.
The reduced armour is a bit of a disappointment but these things look like they excel at alpha striking the enemy really hard out of nowhere.
One is old school Rogue Trader scheme. No diamonds but each arm, leg and torso will be a different bright gaudy colour complete with goblin Green bases flocked.
Or
Sin City style black and white with a single splash of colour on marble bases.
Like the Sin City idea - done right, that would be tight. Am building a Mymeara host at the mo, so thinking of using a similar palette for the Masque - blues, greens, turquoise with black coats and smatterings of diamonds in various greys to hint at the holofields.
Ignoring the lame name, the bolas do't make any sense. Why would you bother going into battle with a guy hanging onto the back of your bike armed only with a single-use weapon?
insaniak wrote: Ignoring the lame name, the bolas do't make any sense. Why would you bother going into battle with a guy hanging onto the back of your bike armed only with a single-use weapon?
Maybe it's hijinx?
Harlequin Frank: "Enemy sighted, deploy the super weapon!"
Harlequin Steve: *snicker*
Harlequin Frank: "sigh...you just brought the fething bolas again didn't you"
Harlequin Steve: "You just got Steve'd!"
Harlequin Frank: "I hate you."
MrFlutterPie wrote: The reduced armour is a bit of a disappointment but these things look like they excel at alpha striking the enemy really hard out of nowhere.
I don't mind the reduced armor. I'd love for Guardian jetbikes to drop to 4+ saves when they get updated, honestly. Compared to every other biker, guardians get a 3+ save for free, while other bikes have weaker armor, or armor increases factored into the biker's cost.
insaniak wrote: Ignoring the lame name, the bolas do't make any sense. Why would you bother going into battle with a guy hanging onto the back of your bike armed only with a single-use weapon?
What!?! You don't remember the exploding bolas in Moonraker
My theory crafting was right on the money. I'll try to not break my arm patting myself on the back.
Not sure how I feel about the bikes though. The one use weapon is super weaksauce, and the glaive increases an already borderline expensive units' cost. OTOH, 4++ for one turn should be plenty to get them stuck in combat tearing units apart. Could easily see running 6 with Seers attached, wiping units off the field. Just not sure Harley Davistar (officially coined) leaves enough points to have a decent support base. It's ~same points as a seer council, w/ a lot more reliable offense and a lot less durability. One bad round of shooting/missing invis and it's going to take a huge beating.
Depending on what the transport turns out to be like, these guys might go the way of the Vyper.
*Edit*: Didn't notice the lack of grenades on the bikes. I think that's going to pretty well do in any serious attempt at making them assault oriented. Even as a vehicle for haywire cannon, not sure they're worth it. You get one turn to shoot before being forced into jinking to save your investment. Gonna keep thinking about it and see if they grow on me or not.
Seriously, those spears and bolas will be nigh impossible to transport. Even the spears in the WD rules page appear bent (unless we're getting some weird angle photo stuff). Rules are tepid at best, but the models are not gaming miniatures in the least. Too spindly!
TheKbob wrote: Seriously, those spears and bolas will be nigh impossible to transport. Even the spears in the WD rules page appear bent (unless we're getting some weird angle photo stuff). Rules are tepid at best, but the models are not gaming miniatures in the least. Too spindly!
Right mate, because *you're* the official on all things gaming. Glad to know, i was kinda confused with these models. Guess i'll just put them next to my Toxicrene and my cryx harrower.....
Oh wait, foam trays. Derp.
On sale February 14th, "Harlequin Masques" are for sale along with harlequin heraldry. Sounds like the codex is for sale on that day, and the painting guide as well. Harlequin Masques are what the army is referred to.
So according to him Codex: Harlequin Masques, Skyweaver Jetbikes and the 'Harlequin Heraldry'-Painting Guide book can be preordered this Friday and are released on Saturday Feb 14
Before the full list gets leaked I cannot believe the Codex pre-order. With the Transport and other models afterwards this is unlike the Orks and Blood Angels releases...
Could Harlequin Masques not be a painting/heraldry book? It sounds pretty...weird as a codex name. And if there's still transports or whatever then usually they'd come out before the dex.
50 points for something insta-killed by every missile, melta-gun, Lance and lascannon on the board? Even with the invulnerable, that's too much of a gamble.
docdoom77 wrote: 50 points for something insta-killed by every missile, melta-gun, Lance and lascannon on the board? Even with the invulnerable, that's too much of a gamble.
Heaven forbid there is one Eldar unit that isn't easy mode.
Synergy, e.g. an 8-model unit consisting of a CWE Farseer on bike casting invisibility, 6 skyweavers, led by an Autarch on bike. Army composition: CWE with Harlequins allied in. That unit can damage and even destroy most targets within a strike range of 12+2d6 in one turn or 48" plus 12+2d6 in two turns. The invisibility or similiar psychic powers (shrouding) protects the unit well enough to get there. Shoot, hide or charge, fight, rinse-and-repeat thanks to Hit&Run. There is quite some potential. The Solitaire will also be helpful by finishing off damaged units. They look to be more efficient than Guardian Jetbike or Shining Spear units who have their strengths but are not as versatile as the Harlequin bikes who can deal sufficient damage to both vehicles and infantry. Charging into terrain looks to be the Skyweavers weakness because they lack plasma grenades. Maybe the Shadowseer has psychic powers to fix that, staying nearby in a transport, and other buffs to offer. Skyweavers are an interesting unit imo
ImAGeek wrote: That looks awesome. I like that it's quite different to the usual bright harlequins.
I don't think it will look good on the table, though. Would be really hard to make out any details, and the blue spot isn't bright enough. Even on a closeup it's a bit boring, probably because there's not enough bright tones.
The Teboul model is a bit better with medium-low saturation values, IMO.
docdoom77 wrote: 50 points for something insta-killed by every missile, melta-gun, Lance and lascannon on the board? Even with the invulnerable, that's too much of a gamble.
You're oversimplifying it. Keep in mind they are jetbikes, which allows an assault move. As stated above, if you use them as a assault platform you're going to be disappointed. But there's potential here if used correctly. The haywire upgrade makes them decent tank hunters, the blast actually works in their favor for knights (being able to scatter to a different facing). Once you've picked off all the scary S8 + weapons, they can pick off easy infantry targets and even do work against heavy targets (though the bolas are not my favorite aspect of them).
There's absolutely no reason to take them as Shuri Cannon platforms, as vypers do exactly the same thing for less and better (and we see how often they get used). As a haywire platform, they're outclassed by scourges by a very large margin. As an assault platform, the lack of grenades hurts them quite a bit and the expensive "real" weapon hurts too. For them to be used well you will need to be able to take adv. of both assault and shooting. Fortunately they're fast enough to pick off weak units, and they don't really need to fight real assault units (your troops do that fine).
Alternately, if you compare them to Harli's on the ground, base line they are ~same cost as 2 with ~same dmg output (after shooting) and better save.
TL-DR: It's entirely too early to be saying the bikes are bad, but barring crazy wargear options/Codex bonuses they aren't auto take either.
There's absolutely no reason to take them as Shuri Cannon platforms, as vypers do exactly the same thing for less and better (and we see how often they get used).
I don't think Harlequins will get Vypers anyhow (outside of using Craftworlders as allies).
There's absolutely no reason to take them as Shuri Cannon platforms, as vypers do exactly the same thing for less and better (and we see how often they get used).
I don't think Harlequins will get Vypers anyhow (outside of using Craftworlders as allies).
Certainly won't, but I highly doubt you see a pure Harlequin army either. Was simply comparing the possible uses to things your allies can bring to the table. Given that you're allies are available, there is just no possible sense in bringing this unit as a gun boat. Filling only that role it is horridly inefficient.
I think they should be used to soften an enemy with shooting, charge them with the slightly improved invulnerable and soak up the overwatch so that a troupe can come in and assault without taking any casualties.
To be fair, at base cost, these guys are slightly better than vypers.
2 Wounds T4, 4+ vs 2HP AV 10 both are susceptible to light weapons fire.
However Str 5-7 Weapons could pen a vyper and blow it up in a single shot, whilst you need Str8 to ID the Skyweaver. At S9/10 they still have a 1/6 chance of failing at wounding them, whereas they would autoglance/pen the vyper.
Both have 1 Shuriken Cannon, Both have a 12" range secondary weapon. The Vyper's is much less powerful but limitless supply, the Bolas are proper nasty vs anything with armour but 1 shot.
Skyweavers can assault and have a better turbo-boost distance, buts Vyper get better access to heavy weapons.
So buck for buck (both £ and pts) the Skyweavers work out a little better to my mind.
But it's like most things in this game, personal preference and your local meta trump stat-hammer when it comes to whether any particular can be applied usefully in game.
[edit] Plus this squadron goes up to 6 models (less FoC), can't be immobilised or weapon destroyed.
docdoom77 wrote: 50 points for something insta-killed by every missile, melta-gun, Lance and lascannon on the board? Even with the invulnerable, that's too much of a gamble.
A significant number of every army's units can be insta-killed by those weapons. That's the entire point of high-powered weaponry! It's like arguing against taking Boyz or Gaunts because blast weapons exist.
You'd be better off asking other questions instead:
1) Why is a T4 jetbike the best target in your army for an opponent's lascannons and missiles to be firing at? Do you have no Avatar, Wraith units or grav tanks for them to shoot at instead? I know I'd rather be chipping away at a looming Wraithknight with a lascannon than trying to blap a 5++ / Jinking jetbike that could be countered with bolters.
2) We still haven't seen the rest of this army. There were hints last week of warlord traits and wargear lists not printed in White Dwarf, which will almost certainly be in an upcoming codex. There's potential for all sorts of shenanigans once you start adding in Great Harlequins, Shadowseers and psychic powers. We don't have anywhere near the full picture yet, so it's a little early to be writing off whole units.
Not quite sure why Jetbikes need grenades anyway.
The rules say they aren't slowed by difficult terrain.
That and logically they arent touching the ground anyway.
There's absolutely no reason to take them as Shuri Cannon platforms, as vypers do exactly the same thing for less and better (and we see how often they get used).
I don't think Harlequins will get Vypers anyhow (outside of using Craftworlders as allies).
Certainly won't, but I highly doubt you see a pure Harlequin army either. Was simply comparing the possible uses to things your allies can bring to the table. Given that you're allies are available, there is just no possible sense in bringing this unit as a gun boat. Filling only that role it is horridly inefficient.
If I can I'm making a pure Harlequin army, I have no desire to play Eldar or Dark Eldar yet again or paint any more of their stuff.
docdoom77 wrote: 50 points for something insta-killed by every missile, melta-gun, Lance and lascannon on the board? Even with the invulnerable, that's too much of a gamble.
A significant number of every army's units can be insta-killed by those weapons. That's the entire point of high-powered weaponry! It's like arguing against taking Boyz or Gaunts because blast weapons exist.
You'd be better off asking other questions instead:
1) Why is a T4 jetbike the best target in your army for an opponent's lascannons and missiles to be firing at? Do you have no Avatar, Wraith units or grav tanks for them to shoot at instead? I know I'd rather be chipping away at a looming Wraithknight with a lascannon than trying to blap a 5++ / Jinking jetbike that could be countered with bolters.
2) We still haven't seen the rest of this army. There were hints last week of warlord traits and wargear lists not printed in White Dwarf, which will almost certainly be in an upcoming codex. There's potential for all sorts of shenanigans once you start adding in Great Harlequins, Shadowseers and psychic powers. We don't have anywhere near the full picture yet, so it's a little early to be writing off whole units.
Why is everyone assuming that they're going to be paired with Craftworld Eldar? So, for question 1: No I don't have an avatar or a wraith unit or grav tanks or a wraithknight. I might have a Talos and some flimsy armor 10 skimmers, but a smart player will knock out those expensive bikes in one round of concentrated shooting and move on to the other targets as they present themselves.
I don't know if the bikes are terrible, but I do know they would make a terrible addition to my Dark Eldar army (which is pretty terrible itself, being made up of stuff that was good in 3rd and 4th edition and only having one Venom as an update ).
They might have their uses. The models are sexy. But they are not for me. I don't think they're wroth their points. (which isn't to say I won't buy them anyway and curse them game after game... sexiness goes a long way. )
Sexy models, but i'm likewise in the camp of them being very soft-targets for reasonably high points. I know everyone will be doing this, but I feel like compared to something like TWC, they just come up short on survivability, offensive threat vector, etc...
That all said, as others have wisely pointed out, we don't have all the rules, and the devil is in the details.
I will say I can't believe these don't have skilled rider.
Like others have stated I do think they will be pretty weak when it comes to small arms fire but when you are playing an army that is completly weak to it that is going to be your main target priority.
I myself think the cannons are prob best (as long as you have some way to deal with av 13-14 elsewhere). What i feel like thier role would be best suited for is tearing up the infantry units that pump out the small arms fire in the opponents ranks. Every less bolter/pulse rifle/gauss flayer is going to matter playing harlies.
We still have yet to see what the death jester(s) have to bring to the shooty part of the army, it could provide more ways to thin out troops and hopefully pin the enemy.
Thats one thing i hope we see in form of psycic power or more guns is pinning, with it stopping overwatch and providing shooting debuff to the enemy it seems like it would be a huge asset to the army. The bikes shouldve had the shrieker variant that pinned that wouldve made the 50ppm alot easier to swallow.
Ace Rimmer wrote: To be fair, at base cost, these guys are slightly better than vypers.
"Slightly better" than garbage is still garbage.
I actually like Vypers; lots of S6 shots (laserlock or guide is fun) and great ability to grab objectives. I usually include 2 or 3, and they rarely let me down.
With the sky weavers though, I feel I would need atleast 4 to make a difference, making the point cost quite high.
You must also consider the harlie-bikes have short range and aim to assault, meaning they will have to stay close to enemies.
Are these guys str5 on the charge -> furious + glaive?
Throwing out 4 attacks on the charge at ap2 with hit and run and assaulting first most times. Not bad imo.
dan2026 wrote:Not quite sure why Jetbikes need grenades anyway.
The rules say they aren't slowed by difficult terrain.
That and logically they arent touching the ground anyway.
Damned if I know.
Just sucks that they came so close to being a such a nasty assault unit. 4 S5 AP2 at initiative might be worth 60 points, but watching them get punked by marines because their toes are on rocks makes it a questionable investment.
There's absolutely no reason to take them as Shuri Cannon platforms, as vypers do exactly the same thing for less and better (and we see how often they get used).
I don't think Harlequins will get Vypers anyhow (outside of using Craftworlders as allies).
Certainly won't, but I highly doubt you see a pure Harlequin army either. Was simply comparing the possible uses to things your allies can bring to the table. Given that you're allies are available, there is just no possible sense in bringing this unit as a gun boat. Filling only that role it is horridly inefficient.
If I can I'm making a pure Harlequin army, I have no desire to play Eldar or Dark Eldar yet again or paint any more of their stuff.
That is your choice, and more power for it. A lot of the people excited about Harlequins have been playing Eldar/DE for years as a main army, and will have ready and easy access to either/both. Unless there are some really interesting units we haven't heard about being released or the Starweaver is becomes the bulk of the HS support in the Harli army (ala CWEWS), playing the codex solo is going be incredibly unbalanced. If you like that, great. I'm going to go out on a limb and say most of us will be allying in our ranged damage though.
dan2026 wrote:Not quite sure why Jetbikes need grenades anyway.
The rules say they aren't slowed by difficult terrain.
That and logically they arent touching the ground anyway.
Damned if I know.
Just sucks that they came so close to being a such a nasty assault unit. 4 S5 AP2 at initiative might be worth 60 points, but watching them get punked by marines because their toes are on rocks makes it a questionable investment.
Don't jetbikes ignore difficult terrain on the charge?
dan2026 wrote:Not quite sure why Jetbikes need grenades anyway.
The rules say they aren't slowed by difficult terrain.
That and logically they arent touching the ground anyway.
Damned if I know.
Just sucks that they came so close to being a such a nasty assault unit. 4 S5 AP2 at initiative might be worth 60 points, but watching them get punked by marines because their toes are on rocks makes it a questionable investment.
Don't jetbikes ignore difficult terrain on the charge?
I don't think so but I don't have a rulebook handy to prove otherwise right this second.
They are not slowed down by it but get the penalty. Like plastictrees has already pointed out. They also have to take dangerous terrain tests if they start or end their charge in difficult/dangerous terrain.
dan2026 wrote:Not quite sure why Jetbikes need grenades anyway.
The rules say they aren't slowed by difficult terrain.
That and logically they arent touching the ground anyway.
Damned if I know.
Just sucks that they came so close to being a such a nasty assault unit. 4 S5 AP2 at initiative might be worth 60 points, but watching them get punked by marines because their toes are on rocks makes it a questionable investment.
Don't jetbikes ignore difficult terrain on the charge?
Page 47: "...if at least one model in the charging unit moved through difficult terrain as part of its charge move, all of the unit's models must attack at Initiative 1, regardless of other Initiative modifiers, even if the charging unit is not slowed by difficult terrain." (emphasis mine) EDIT: Double ninja'd!
This is why the new addition to the Flip Belt rules are so awesome for us, even though Harlies have always ignored Difficult Terrain. Without either grenades or Flip Belts, the Skyweavers are basically Incubi in cc, and we all know how often those get taken. Seems to me like a far better use of their Assault Phase is to do a Jetbike assault move behind cover to put them out of return fire from whatever they just unloaded their dakka on, with Hit & Run as a tool to keep them from getting bogged down if they get caught out. This move-shoot-move basically makes them the most durable dakka/haywire platform available to any Eldar (unless I'm forgetting something; I'm sure you all will point it out), but it's still questionable whether that's worth 50 points per gun. I'm trying to hold off making any kind of final judgement until I see how the rest of the army shakes out.
They certainly have the speed to take good advantage of targets of opportunity in CC as well. They can't just smash in to anything which I guess makes them sub-optimal but certainly not useless.
Really want to see what the Starweaver looks like/does..
Automatically Appended Next Post: I would have guessed something Venom sized for the Starweaver, but the bikes are heading that way anyway, so maybe some sort of Serpent/Raider mash up.
plastictrees wrote: I would have guessed something Venom sized for the Starweaver, but the bikes are heading that way anyway, so maybe some sort of Serpent/Raider mash up.
Personally, I would really like to see a transport capable of carrying an entire squad; though I also appreciate the Venom's smaller payload, as well. I'd heard at one point that Harlequins would be getting Venoms as well (which is appropriate, since I think the Venom first appeared as a Harlequin transport and was only later used by the DE). Does anyone know if this is still the case? If so, I think it increases the chance of the Starweaver being a bit bigger.
Is the Venom a dedicated transport for the DE? The WD Harlequin entry, which I think we have to assume is ripped straight from the future book only lists the Starweaver as a transport.
I'd also rather see something with a 10-13 type capactiy.
Nothing to back this up with but I'm guessing that the Harlequin book will be completely self contained, no use of Eldar/DEldar units.
plastictrees wrote: Is the Venom a dedicated transport for the DE? The WD Harlequin entry, which I think we have to assume is ripped straight from the future book only lists the Starweaver as a transport.
I'd also rather see something with a 10-13 type capactiy.
Nothing to back this up with but I'm guessing that the Harlequin book will be completely self contained, no use of Eldar/DEldar units.
Yes, raiders and venoms are DT. Raiders have a capacity of 10 and Venoms have a capacity of 5.
Kind of hoping the transport is raider sized, vs Venom. What makes venoms good is the low price point coupled with the insane # of shots, it's transport capacity really isn't factored into the cost (2x the shots of a dual Cannon Vyper for same points and statline, plus the transport capacity). Given Harli's aren't able to get 18" blasters to shoot with, and the skyweaver should be the gun boat, a smaller sized transport looses its appeal. Harli's are expensive though (points wise), so a small transport would make sense. Given the Skyweaver's execution though, I'm worried about how GW would handle making a "different venom" that comes close to the balance seen in the DE venom.
Now, a more durable raider could be interesting. Skyweaver's Mirage launchers (highly likely), AV11 open topped 3HP with a capacity of ~12 could make for some fun. If it didn't come with a single weapon, I'd be happy as long as it got my Harli's from Point A) to Point B) reliably. Would be nice to have a codex where the troop choice actually did the brunt of the work.
Realistically I think we'll end up with a small transport, and the shadowseer will be the transport for larger units. Lets just hope the Shadowseer's powers are actually useful this time around.
I've had a lot of luck with it too, being immune to anything >24" away is awesome! I use them to grant cover to jetpack corsairs or storm guardians with a warlock. Can't soot the guys out front, giving the guys behind a save. 3+ with the warlock concealing the unit. Yay 20 man storm guardians!
Verviedi wrote: Looks really good. If I start a Harlequin army...
Where was this found! Id love to acquire one, maybe two for an army!
Its a golden demon winning conversion.
bloody gorgeous. Love the darker, more sombre palette. def the route to go imho. Wanna be careful though or could end up looking like a squad of death jesters......hmmm lol
I'm feeling a more red, white and black scheme to be honest, the coats and masks would be white with the body suit being black then the long boots and other areas being black/white and red/black diamonds
Mantle wrote: I'm feeling a more red, white and black scheme to be honest, the coats and masks would be white with the body suit being black then the long boots and other areas being black/white and red/black diamonds
Aye. Sounds nice too. Simple but gonna look great on the figs. Not wanting to go all skittles on them though.
This release is what I've been waiting for since I started playing! I wanted a guardian and Harlequin army, now I have these and the corsairs from forge world. Dream come true
Wonder how many fluff stories there'll be of the harlequins fighting other factions. So far most of the arts and model set ups depict them fighting slaaneshi daemons (which, fluff-wise, really is probably one of their major enemies. I'm just interested in seeing what specific reasons will be for battles with other factions)
Venoms w/Shuriken Cannons looks like. If they get the Skyweaver's 4++, should be a nice little transport. 2 Shuriken Cannons isn't super exciting, even if the top gets to be traded out. But I suppose it's what's on the inside that counts
TiamatRoar wrote: Wonder how many fluff stories there'll be of the harlequins fighting other factions. So far most of the arts and model set ups depict them fighting slaaneshi daemons (which, fluff-wise, really is probably one of their major enemies. I'm just interested in seeing what specific reasons will be for battles with other factions)
Well, Harlies fighting any chaos faction is easy and obvious, and Nids nearly just as easy to envision as they pose a major threat to the Exodites and Craftworlders. Imperials are not terribly difficult either, as all you need is something like a SM company/Inquisitor messing around with "things men are not meant to know" or threatening Exodites, etc. Harlequins are freelancers with their own agenda, and they have a long memory since they are the only Eldar faction that survived the Fall with their gods and source of knowledge (the Black Library) intact. Thus, they could have any number of reasons to intervene, many of which would seem inscrutable to humans/tau, etc. because the Harlies are acting on intelligence that has been preserved for the last 40,000 years or so.
I reckon Harlequins would be a great "spoiler" faction for a narrative campaign, too.
The corsairs have venoms with shuriken cannons on them, and they are pretty boss! They are spotless vypers that get 5 man transport capacity for laughs. The harlis get them there already, so I wouldn't need to buy any if that is the case( already converted my own)
Honestly, those pics look so much like Venoms, I'm not sure I'm sold on that being the Starweaver. If the Starweaver really does turn out to be just a re-named Venom, I'll be pretty sad.
That with the black and white picture make a pretty strong argument for a venom sized transport. Would have liked a Raider sized party boat, but as I said before I'm sure they want you to grab the shadow seer for larger squads.
@Lythrandire- Good point, but there's a slightly brighter blur behind the gun that's probably the gunner. If it is the gunner, then the size is right at venom/vyper scale.
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: The blurriness hides any real size reference point, but the stand on the star weaver looks too thick to be a skimmer base...
Because from the looks, it's on a flyer base.
Interestingly enough, you can get a better idea of the size reference by looking what they parked it on. It's on a Skyshield Landing Pad.
Pretty sure it is just a normal skimmer base like the venom, just diffused from being out of focus. It's sitting up high, but it is on their custom building that is part landing pad, part upper building works.
TiamatRoar wrote: Wonder how many fluff stories there'll be of the harlequins fighting other factions. So far most of the arts and model set ups depict them fighting slaaneshi daemons (which, fluff-wise, really is probably one of their major enemies. I'm just interested in seeing what specific reasons will be for battles with other factions)
There is no more fluff... Just random explanations to sell models to ally into other armies.
TiamatRoar wrote: Wonder how many fluff stories there'll be of the harlequins fighting other factions. So far most of the arts and model set ups depict them fighting slaaneshi daemons (which, fluff-wise, really is probably one of their major enemies. I'm just interested in seeing what specific reasons will be for battles with other factions)
The Masque of Vyle novella went up for pre-order last week.
Novella Description:
Even amongst the eldar, the Harlequins are a capricious, mysterious breed. When a troupe of these deadly warrior-performers discovers a dead Craftworld festering in the webway, they are determined to find the one responsible and exact punishment. Using the ancient craft of their Shadowseer, the trail of destruction leads the troupe to the Sable Marches, a fringe realm of the dark eldar. With several possible suspects of this heinous crime, the Harlequins decide to draw out the guilty one by staging the Masque of Vyle for the archons, a performance that will expose the truth and lead, fatally, to the perpetrator.
TiamatRoar wrote: Wonder how many fluff stories there'll be of the harlequins fighting other factions. So far most of the arts and model set ups depict them fighting slaaneshi daemons (which, fluff-wise, really is probably one of their major enemies. I'm just interested in seeing what specific reasons will be for battles with other factions)
The Masque of Vyle novella went up for pre-order last week.
Novella Description:
Even amongst the eldar, the Harlequins are a capricious, mysterious breed. When a troupe of these deadly warrior-performers discovers a dead Craftworld festering in the webway, they are determined to find the one responsible and exact punishment. Using the ancient craft of their Shadowseer, the trail of destruction leads the troupe to the Sable Marches, a fringe realm of the dark eldar. With several possible suspects of this heinous crime, the Harlequins decide to draw out the guilty one by staging the Masque of Vyle for the archons, a performance that will expose the truth and lead, fatally, to the perpetrator.
d/l'd and read it last week Tasty wee read. Touches on the background of the eldar fall and how the harlis cam to be. Worth a read and Motley is back in it too
I don't think Lelith would crap herself if the Emperor himself appeared.
Emperor would pop her with the merest thought.
Doesn't mean she'd crap herself though, in fairness.
I don't get the impression that the DE are scared of the Harlequins. They probably respect them, as much as the DE respect anyone, and they're all Eldar at the end of the day - DE and Craftworld Eldar get along reasonably well still, because they're the same species.
Harlequins are some the galaxies greatest fighters. i think the DE respect the Harlequins based on their combat power and the fact that the DE love watching the Harlequins kill. The DE are always looking for new thrills as they feed off the death of others and the Harlequins give them something both very different and exciting to watch.
Chaps, I respectfully request that the fluff speculation be kept to a minimum, while I'm not personally too hyped for this release, I'm sure there are a lot of people eagerly awaiting news of the next releases, and every time the thread gets bumped because of something slightly off topic there will be disappointed people, and one of them may get cross and start shouting!
Dark Eldar are scared of Harlequins, or at least an Angry Harlequin. In Path of the Archon Motely mostly meets with powerful Archons who are adept or to arrogant to admit it, but when Motely get's angry with a simple Kabalite Guard due to the ransacking of Wraith Guard the Guard fears for his life. I mean, Dark Eldar fear Slaanesh more then anything, and seeing it right in front of you in the eyes of a Slight Harlequin currently sitting on your stomach is enough to make anyone wince.
Azreal13 wrote: Chaps, I respectfully request that the fluff speculation be kept to a minimum, while I'm not personally too hyped for this release, I'm sure there are a lot of people eagerly awaiting news of the next releases, and every time the thread gets bumped because of something slightly off topic there will be disappointed people, and one of them may get cross and start shouting!
So we should stop discussing the thing that's coming out for fear of not discussing the thing that's coming out in the right way?
http://spikeybitsblog.com/ has the WD review up which has the Skyweaver stuff in plus a few painting articles. Also the following weeks "masque" link. Nothing that's not known but nice to see it out there.
Azreal13 wrote: Chaps, I respectfully request that the fluff speculation be kept to a minimum, while I'm not personally too hyped for this release, I'm sure there are a lot of people eagerly awaiting news of the next releases, and every time the thread gets bumped because of something slightly off topic there will be disappointed people, and one of them may get cross and start shouting!
So we should stop discussing the thing that's coming out for fear of not discussing the thing that's coming out in the right way?
Sure thing chief. We'll get right on that.
I'm just not sure that whether or not Lileth would soil herself if she met the Emperor is exactly what people would necessarily expect when opening this thread.
Azreal13 wrote: Chaps, I respectfully request that the fluff speculation be kept to a minimum, while I'm not personally too hyped for this release, I'm sure there are a lot of people eagerly awaiting news of the next releases, and every time the thread gets bumped because of something slightly off topic there will be disappointed people, and one of them may get cross and start shouting!
So we should stop discussing the thing that's coming out for fear of not discussing the thing that's coming out in the right way?
Sure thing chief. We'll get right on that.
I'm just not sure that whether or not Lileth would soil herself if she met the Emperor is exactly what people would necessarily expect when opening this thread.
Call me controversial!
As a Xeno's Inquisitor I am most interested in the biological fear response in the enemies of Mankind should they face the holy Emperor.
Azreal13 wrote: Chaps, I respectfully request that the fluff speculation be kept to a minimum, while I'm not personally too hyped for this release, I'm sure there are a lot of people eagerly awaiting news of the next releases, and every time the thread gets bumped because of something slightly off topic there will be disappointed people, and one of them may get cross and start shouting!
So we should stop discussing the thing that's coming out for fear of not discussing the thing that's coming out in the right way?
Sure thing chief. We'll get right on that.
I'm just not sure that whether or not Lileth would soil herself if she met the Emperor is exactly what people would necessarily expect when opening this thread.
Call me controversial!
As a Xeno's Inquisitor I am most interested in the biological fear response in the enemies of Mankind should they face the holy Emperor.
Well facing the emperor right now would probably not be too scary as he is a rotting corpse sitting on a golden toilet... but back before he let Horus beat the snot out of him... I think all would be frightened.
Interesting bit about the Skyweaver Jetbike, which is a piece of wargear (as noted in the previously leaked scans of the Skyweaver data sheet). It says "a model riding a Skyweaver Jetbike has a 4+ armor save..." etc. SO... it sounds like "models" other than Skyweavers may be able to ride a Skyweaver.
Grand Harlequins and Death Jesters on Skyweavers anyone?
Edit: Dear Azrael, please note - this is not a fluff post! Thanks!
Asmodas wrote: Interesting bit about the Skyweaver Jetbike, which is a piece of wargear (as noted in the previously leaked scans of the Skyweaver data sheet). It says "a model riding a Skyweaver Jetbike has a 4+ armor save..." etc. SO... it sounds like "models" other than Skyweavers may be able to ride a Skyweaver.
Grand Harlequins and Death Jesters on Skyweavers anyone?
It's certainly possible, since that's the wording used by Windrider Jetbikes (which can be taken by other Eldar units), but not necessarily indicative, since that's also the same wording used by Reaver Jetbikes (which can be taken by no one else). Furthermore, the lack of any kind of additional Wound for the driver makes it seem unlikely to me that we'll see this on any characters.
Does that say, unit composition 2, options may include 4 additional?
100 points... so expensive!
Also -- it does sound like another model may ride a Skyweaver. "A model riding a Skyweaver jetbike has a 4+ Armor Save and a shuriken cannon. Their unit type also changes to Eldar Jetbike."
Very cool that the rules are in WD. So here's a question for you -- if you get all the rules for all the units in White Dwarf, and then a Codex is published that contains those same rules (plus some fluff and photography at the beginning), would you buy the Codex? For me -- it would be a qualified yes -- yes on armies that I'm interested in.
Talys wrote: Also -- it does sound like another model may ride a Skyweaver. "A model riding a Skyweaver jetbike has a 4+ Armor Save and a shuriken cannon. Their unit type also changes to Eldar Jetbike."
Again, just as a reminder, the Reaver Jetbikes are also worded that way, and any Dark Eldar player knows how many of their HQ options got the opportunity to ride one (hint: it's zero).
With 48-96 pages I prefer the book which will hopefully have new fluff in it. In addition to that: Warlord traits, tactical objectives, relics and artwork... well I already decided in favour of a book as I have skipped purchasing those WDs anyway.
As has been mentioned previously (and as GW have done previously) the WD rules will give you enough to run the unit as an allied force, but things like wargear and warlord traits tend to get "overlooked" and require the book to run as a standalone force.
That was very much the case with the IK for instance.
With that in mind, would you really pay some £25-30 for a book where you already own the meat of the rules, can obtain the balance of them via leaks and where much of the background content will likely be rehashed or available elsewhere?
I've not sure I would, but I'm really not certain, as I do like my books.
Very cool that the rules are in WD. So here's a question for you -- if you get all the rules for all the units in White Dwarf, and then a Codex is published that contains those same rules (plus some fluff and photography at the beginning), would you buy the Codex? For me -- it would be a qualified yes -- yes on armies that I'm interested in.
No for me. If I buy the potentially 4 WDs, that's still only a third of the price of a codex, and between that the leaks, I have all the rules I need. The fluff I can find elsewhere.
Looking at the sprue pics, noticed something a little odd. It looks at first glance that they put up the same pic twice (the one with the bike itself. But the sprues are subtly different. At the very least, the masks that go on top of the body of the bike are different on both.
The other thing that leapt out was the fact that all the driver/passenger bits were separate from the bike itself. This would make it easy to make DE, CE, or CE aspect warrior versions with minimal effort.
The slightly daft canopy masks are serperate too, which would be a relief were i looking to buy. They do look about the right size for a Wraithknight's head though, and could make quite a nice face for a Harlie WK conversion.
Does that say, unit composition 2, options may include 4 additional?
100 points... so expensive!
Also -- it does sound like another model may ride a Skyweaver. "A model riding a Skyweaver jetbike has a 4+ Armor Save and a shuriken cannon. Their unit type also changes to Eldar Jetbike."
Very cool that the rules are in WD. So here's a question for you -- if you get all the rules for all the units in White Dwarf, and then a Codex is published that contains those same rules (plus some fluff and photography at the beginning), would you buy the Codex? For me -- it would be a qualified yes -- yes on armies that I'm interested in.
I'd just d/l it for my iPad. I like having all that extra fluff/pics/stuff that comes in a codex
chaos0xomega wrote: The GW sales rep for my FLGS teased him saying that Harlequins would have access to some DE models, including the Raider.
Just FYI, not sure how true it is.
Of course they will, they're battle bros. I doubt it means anything beyond that. Venom/raider would have been a DT option if so.
Or maybe they can commandeer Eldar/DE units into the army, ala rogue trader era. Would be a neat idea and fit fluff, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Ally in a DE raiders from realspace detachment and you have 6 FA slot dedicated transports to use for your harlequin force. It should be plenty easy to get raiders for them already.
Wilson wrote: They dont appear any bigger than regular jetbikes to me. Im not normally one to moan about gw costs but this is bloody silly.
Vyper is on a big base and has two riders, bigger profile.
New Harlie bike? Two riders, big base, bigger profile.
Old jetbike? One rider, small base, smaller profile.
Wilson wrote: They dont appear any bigger than regular jetbikes to me. Im not normally one to moan about gw costs but this is bloody silly.
Vyper is on a big base and has two riders, bigger profile.
New Harlie bike? Two riders, big base, bigger profile.
Old jetbike? One rider, small base, smaller profile.
Yeah, I think the price is pretty reasonable at $20 USD per bike. 3 Jetbikes comes out to around the same price, but so what? The old jetbikes (and they are _really_ old. I have a 2d edition one that fits right in with the windriders I bought 6 months ago) don't look nearly as cool as these do.
Each one is clearly bigger than a jetbike.
Just preordered 2 boxes at my FLGS, I'm more interested in the Starweaver but I think a squad of these guys will be fun.
"Also included are 2 clear canopies that can be glued on to completely enclose the cockpit, or used to just cover the lower section."
From the Uk webshop - Skyweaver Jetbikes
Is that an extract from the Starweaver which should not be in the Jetbike description?
Thanks interesting. Perhaps the Skyweavers just come with bits to convert a Venom into a Starweaver? (ala the plastic wracks with their wrack crew bits). It would certainly help justify the price a bit more (right now they're reasonable but with those extras they'd be pretty good).
EDIT: on second thought I'm not entirely sure. I don't really see any extra bits on the kit itself other than the aforementioned clear plastic canopies. And it seems that if this kit did support the Venom that it would have been mentioned somewhere already.
None of the multiple alternate builds/paints in the WD show a canopy.
I'm guessing it's a copy paste error from the upcoming Starweaver description...?
Thanks interesting. Perhaps the Skyweavers just come with bits to convert a Venom into a Starweaver? (ala the plastic wracks with their wrack crew bits). It would certainly help justify the price a bit more (right now they're reasonable but with those extras they'd be pretty good).
EDIT: on second thought I'm not entirely sure. I don't really see any extra bits on the kit itself other than the aforementioned clear plastic canopies. And it seems that if this kit did support the Venom that it would have been mentioned somewhere already.
I think the Starweaver will have similiarities but will also be a model of its own. The b/w artwork from the Troupe instruction booklet shows two types of skimmers. One open-topped with a gun and one that looks more like a sky-riding car with an enclosed transport compartment at the back. I guess the clear window bits allow for more variety. Has anyone noticed already that the faces on the bikes' canopies can be lifted during flight? Someone on Warseer pointed this out. It seems there are HUDs beneath the faces
Automatically Appended Next Post:
plastictrees wrote: None of the multiple alternate builds/paints in the WD show a canopy.
I'm guessing it's a copy paste error from the upcoming Starweaver description...?
It think so as well. I checked the other kits like Venom, Vyper and the Vyper 3-set. It is not from them. Neither from the Void Raven
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Harlequin Masques and Heraldry, so it sounds like we've got a LE codex with an art book bundled in
Someone posted earlier that they're selling the art book separately, and the limited edition codices generally have a bit more "oomph" to them than an art book.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Harlequin Masques and Heraldry, so it sounds like we've got a LE codex with an art book bundled in
Someone posted earlier that they're selling the art book separately, and the limited edition codices generally have a bit more "oomph" to them than an art book.
I hope that's right, I could be tempted by an art book
Maybe "Art Book" is the wrong term; something more like the painting books that they've released for Tyranids, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and Dark Eldar.
Medium of Death wrote: I wonder what other Eldar units will be available to the Harlequins?
Dancing Wraithknights anybody?
They don't have spirit stones in the established cannon, so no wraith-anything.
It'd be nice to have some borrowed tanks, but really I just want a playable army.
That's a good point. They used to have Wraithlords though no?
I guess the idea of the Wraithknight needing to be piloted by a Twin with the dead twin in the spirit stone kind of rules it out.
I wonder what Titans the Eldar had before the fall... or whether it was the existing designs and the spiritstones were integrated later to improve the pilot bond.
Not sure about more recent lists but in RT they had access to wraithlord precursors, but those were piloted 'dreadnoughts' at the time.
The 'wraith' stuff didn't really exist either, those were all eldar robots at that point.
plastictrees wrote: Not sure about more recent lists but in RT they had access to wraithlord precursors, but those were piloted 'dreadnoughts' at the time.
The 'wraith' stuff didn't really exist either, those were all eldar robots at that point.
Which explained why...
They could also drive landraiders...
In 3rd ed it was much more in tune with the canon of things
Kirasu wrote: RT really shouldnt be used as canon for anything.. It was basically a totally different game with vastly different fluff.
2nd edition is start of current 40k.
Not really. 2nd + were still filled with plenty of stupidity, most notably the abhorrent 3.5 Chaos Codex and the watching-paint-dry-boring old-Cron-fluff.
Kirasu wrote: RT really shouldnt be used as canon for anything.. It was basically a totally different game with vastly different fluff.
2nd edition is start of current 40k.
Not really. 2nd + were still filled with plenty of stupidity, most notably the abhorrent 3.5 Chaos Codex and the watching-paint-dry-boring old-Cron-fluff.
5th Edition is the start of current 40k.
Paint dry Necron fluff?
It was understated and lovecraftian. I don't even know why I'm responding to this.
Kirasu wrote: RT really shouldnt be used as canon for anything.. It was basically a totally different game with vastly different fluff.
2nd edition is start of current 40k.
Not really. 2nd + were still filled with plenty of stupidity, most notably the abhorrent 3.5 Chaos Codex and the watching-paint-dry-boring old-Cron-fluff.
5th Edition is the start of current 40k.
O.o did you actually play 2nd?
2nd was actually much better than the later editions. Third had some nice ideas but it lost allot of what the game was during the 2nd to 3rd transition....
Kirasu wrote: RT really shouldnt be used as canon for anything.. It was basically a totally different game with vastly different fluff.
2nd edition is start of current 40k.
Not really. 2nd + were still filled with plenty of stupidity, most notably the abhorrent 3.5 Chaos Codex and the watching-paint-dry-boring old-Cron-fluff.
5th Edition is the start of current 40k.
Paint dry Necron fluff?
It was understated and lovecraftian. I don't even know why I'm responding to this.
Or, y'know, some people might have felt differently to you and found it boring? Wow, it's like people can have different opinions or something!
The current sidebar is really more about background than rules, which I believe is what Wonderwolf was talking about.
Ruleswise 2nd edition was more of a true skirmish game, saying that 3rd edition 'lost' something suggests that it wasn't a concious effort to make an almost entirely different game at least from a high level 'feel' perspective.
Anyway.
Anyone have any tiny pictures of something vaguely Harlequin related that we can scrutinize?
Ah good, btt. Yes similiar to those. The Venom was first introduced in the Citadel Journal Harlequin army list before Dark Eldar got it with their 5th Ed codex. It would make sense to give them a similiar vehicle again
I just picked up my Harlequin Troupe today, and I confess to not reading all 38 pages of this thread, so my apologies if somewhere this was covered already.
First of all: there was some debate when images first surfaced, but the Harlequin bases are most certainly 25mm! So, what tea leaves shall we read into there?
The box comes with 1.5 sprues (3 half frames), which I suppose is quite good, considering that they are parts for 6 models. The quality of the plastic is excellent. In USD, after a discount, I would have paid something like $4.50 per model, which I can live with for a pretty good quality set.
It also comes with a transfer sheet with some white and yellow decals, but I really dont' know why they bothered -- almost all the shapes are very simple (like two rows of diamonds, and a bunch of spades with crosses at the bottom). Not that it isn't appreciated; just that all but a couple of the decals would be trivial to paint in.
The Masks are awesome! There are some full heads, as well as some two-part ones. Anyways, a picture is worth a thousand words. Here's a very high res snapshot of the Troupe sprues. (click to open, then use + to zoom in -- you can see the faces, etc.)
I also picked up the Solitaire, and that is a very solid model -- though it was hellaciously expensive :( I only bought 1, since he's Unique. A pity, as it is such a beautiful model.
Thanks for the pic. Since you have the box, can you confirm there are enough parts to make 7 torsos? The GW description says you 7 fronts, 5 backs, and 3 backs with coats, but I can't make out from the GW sprue pics if they all fit together so as to build 7 torsos.
I have a spare set of legs or two and an Eldar torso front, so if I can essentially get 8 models out of this set (5 Players, Troupe Master, Solitaire and Shadowseer converted from spares) then it goes from 'maybe' to 'definite'.
Picked my sets up as well.
Someone was considering it earlier so I'll point out that there is no direct compatibility with the Witch Elf kit. Lots of relatively easy conversions to make, but nothing a easy as straight head or body swaps.
I count 12 leg pieces though (for 6 sets of lower torso). Of course, the legs are not super exciting, and you can substitute something in; Dark Eldar look like they'd fit well.
Heads - there may be 8 heads complete, but there are 13 face masks. If you really wanted another head, just lop off the front of a DE non-helmet head, and stick on face mask
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I wonder if Dark Eldar Scourge legs would work as they've got the prancing on bits of rock sorted (although they'd need the spikes/claws removed)
Just looking at a Scourge sprue. Yeah, they are sort of the same shape, and anatomically made to the same scale. The same issue as using legs from Kabalites, though -- the legs from Scourges and Kabalites are "female" sockets (the upper torso has the extruding ball portion for the join), whereas with the Harlequins, the lower torso contains the ball part of the joint, and the upper torso contains the socket. However, that's not really a big deal; just roll a ball of green stuff.
Talys wrote: I just picked up my Harlequin Troupe today, and I confess to not reading all 38 pages of this thread, so my apologies if somewhere this was covered already.
First of all: there was some debate when images first surfaced, but the Harlequin bases are most certainly 25mm! So, what tea leaves shall we read into there?
The box comes with 1.5 sprues (3 half frames), which I suppose is quite good, considering that they are parts for 6 models. The quality of the plastic is excellent. In USD, after a discount, I would have paid something like $4.50 per model, which I can live with for a pretty good quality set.
It also comes with a transfer sheet with some white and yellow decals, but I really dont' know why they bothered -- almost all the shapes are very simple (like two rows of diamonds, and a bunch of spades with crosses at the bottom). Not that it isn't appreciated; just that all but a couple of the decals would be trivial to paint in.
The Masks are awesome! There are some full heads, as well as some two-part ones. Anyways, a picture is worth a thousand words. Here's a very high res snapshot of the Troupe sprues. (click to open, then use + to zoom in -- you can see the faces, etc.)
I also picked up the Solitaire, and that is a very solid model -- though it was hellaciously expensive :( I only bought 1, since he's Unique. A pity, as it is such a beautiful model.
Awesome photo - thx. can't wait to get my paintcovered hands on this lot
plastictrees wrote: Not sure about more recent lists but in RT they had access to wraithlord precursors, but those were piloted 'dreadnoughts' at the time.
The 'wraith' stuff didn't really exist either, those were all eldar robots at that point.
actually they were not robots in Rogue Trader you could take robots but had to write programs for them.
The Eldar had Dreadnaughts piloted by dudes inside , they also had ghostwarriors - future wraithguard and they had phantom dreadnaughts future wraithlords. I have all the models from that era and I can post pictures up if you would like. Harlequins had dreadnaughts piloted by alive troope players.
The ghost warriors were originally listed as drones and the phantom as an eldar robot. I think this may have been pre-rules and just the citadel catalogue listing, but I don't have any of my books anymore.
So were getting end times leaks, and next weeks white dwarf cover mentions Harlequins but nothing that sounds specifically Starweaver-ish. Hope we're not skipping a week.
My guess is that we'll see the codex and painting guide next week, possibly with one of the clampack characters (I'd guess shadowseer) and then finish with a Heavy Support week (tank and Death Jester). After that, it looks like we're back to WFB End Times.
plastictrees wrote: The ghost warriors were originally listed as drones and the phantom as an eldar robot. I think this may have been pre-rules and just the citadel catalogue listing, but I don't have any of my books anymore.
So were getting end times leaks, and next weeks white dwarf cover mentions Harlequins but nothing that sounds specifically Starweaver-ish. Hope we're not skipping a week.
I have all the books and WD since the beginning, because I am pathetic that way. I am not sure which publication you are referring and their may have been one that did but I know that the orignal stuff was the dreadnaught and the spirit stuff.
I think that they meant that, fluff-wise, the Eldar used robotic armies before the Fall; only afterwards did they have to start using spirit stones (because of Slannesh) and flesh-and-blood warriors. Presumably their robotic armies were also wraithbone constructs, but I wouldn't know that much.
White Dwarf issue 100 was probably the first to feature Eldar Dreadnoughts/Wraithlords. There was another article in issue 110 about Eldar Spirit Warriors
Automatically Appended Next Post: Faeit has two sources with this week's releases. Close to the White Dwarf leaks I would rate them solid. So the Codex can be preordered soon. Also a Painting Guide, cards and the Starweaver. Will the clampack character models come next week as rumored by Sad Panda? We will see when the previews of the books are shown Friday night
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Can finally confirm that the Codex: Harlequins is next. There's the
Codex, Datacards, a painting guide for Harlequins and the Harlequin
Starweaver as well. so should be a nice week for fans.
via a separate source on Faeit 212
Releases for this week.
Codex: Harlequins – 96 pages hardback full colour not a supplement but a full stand-alone codex
Datacards Harlequins – 7 Psychic cards and 36 tactical objectivesÂ
Harlequin Starweaver – transport for Harlequins, looking a lot like the DE VenomÂ
Warriors of the Laughing God: A Harlequins Painting Guide – 168pages, softcover painting guide.Â
Alpharius wrote: Codex is 96 pages, and the 'painting guide' is 168?
Ha!
"Now continue with square D23, blue, then E23, red, ... "
Sounds legit though, the pg's of late are about 160 pages, they contain fluff for armies and characters as well, and are a lot bigger than the codex books
ALSO! It doesn't seem like they're going to post all the rules in WD then.
What makes you say that? I imagine the Traits and Relics will only be in the codex, but the Starweaver/other-build rules are probably going to be in WD, I expect. I can't think of any recent 'new' units that haven't had WD profiles.
I am SO getting this codex! If this does well, other side armies may have a chance, Kroot kindred, feral Orks, gene stealer cult. These all were stand alone army ideas, became simple fluff descriptions with maybe one unit on the table, and now may be revived to fill in niches/ be allies with other main armies! All without having to remake the now (mostly) up to date core armies. So much win
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: I am SO getting this codex! If this does well, other side armies may have a chance, Kroot kindred, feral Orks, gene stealer cult. These all were stand alone army ideas, became simple fluff descriptions with maybe one unit on the table, and now may be revived to fill in niches/ be allies with other main armies! All without having to remake the now (mostly) up to date core armies. So much win
Good point, I do miss the Kroot Army and the Gene Stealer Cult
I played Feral Orks, they confused so many people (with their WS and BS of 3). I keep my Orks just incase...
I mean Harlequins returned... anything is possible now.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Oh I know that. It's just yet another picture from someone who's grasp on photography is only slightly above their grasp on breathing...
You have to understand that all of these photos are being taken by people being chased by angry dogs.
So looking at a Venom, the Starweaver is clearly a completely new kit, but is a Venom with the same Craftworld nods that the Skyweaver had. I like it. Might have liked something bigger a bit more, but I like it.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Oh I know that. It's just yet another picture from someone who's grasp on photography is only slightly above their grasp on breathing...
It doesn't stress me too much, depending on the location if you can't control the lighting it can be a pain in the arse to take a picture of a glossy page without reflections, it doesn't even look like they used a flash, probably just a reflection from a window or something, and I assume most are taken with a phone and no tripod, so shakiness is highly likely. So I don't really expect much. I wouldn't put much effort in either knowing that the book is coming out in a few days anyway.
Wasn't the "Venom" originally a Harlequin vehicle anyways?
They are different kits. The main difference I see by just looking at the engine intake is that on the Starweaver the intake is above the wing while on the Venom it is below the wing. The Starweaver also has the rollbar in the passenger compartment. Here's a pic of the two so you don't have to switch back and forth to do a comparison:
H.B.M.C. wrote: Oh I know that. It's just yet another picture from someone who's grasp on photography is only slightly above their grasp on breathing...
It doesn't stress me too much, depending on the location if you can't control the lighting it can be a pain in the arse to take a picture of a glossy page without reflections, it doesn't even look like they used a flash, probably just a reflection from a window or something, and I assume most are taken with a phone and no tripod, so shakiness is highly likely. So I don't really expect much. I wouldn't put much effort in either knowing that the book is coming out in a few days anyway.
True.
These "leaks" 4 or 5 days before the official WD-release seem pointless anyhow. If you can't beat the release by .. dunno .. a month, it's hardly a "leak" anyhow.
Sweet! I already converted a bunch of vypers into corsair venoms with shuriken cannons on top. Now they're apparently skyweavers for my Harlequin squads
I think this also confirms that the canopy text in the Skyweaver description was meant for the Starweaver as it has the same Venom style partial and full canopy.
Wasn't the "Venom" originally a Harlequin vehicle anyways?
They are different kits. The main difference I see by just looking at the engine intake is that on the Starweaver the intake is above the wing while on the Venom it is below the wing. The Starweaver also has the rollbar in the passenger compartment. Here's a pic of the two so you don't have to switch back and forth to do a comparison:
No, no. I mean in the original lore, the Harlequin transport was called a "Venom" but it had no model. When GW made the update DE codex, they gave the Dark Eldar a Vyper-like transport and called it a Venom.
Now it comes full circle with the Harlequins getting a transport, but it's not called a Venom. It's only natural that it's modeled similarly.
EDIT: Found the entry:
It's from back in 3rd Edition Citadel Journal. The mock-up is just a converted Eldar Vyper.
It looks like it's actually a different kit. You could easily get away with putting Harlies in Venoms and no one would notice the difference, but I'm guessing you pick this up for the crew. Hope it's priced the same as the Venom...
H.B.M.C. wrote: Yeah but they could put the damned thing down at least, rather than trying to hold it and take a photo at the same time. This isn't a selfie FFS!
But then you put it down and turn off the flash and if the room has lighting above you suddenly you have an annoying shadow, either the regions in shadow are too dark and you can't see them or the regions not in shadow are too bright and you can't see them.
I've never understood why people complain about shaky/reflection cam leak shots when it's far easier to take a bad photo than a good one and I don't really expect people to take the time to set up for a good one. As someone who has attempted to photograph a book in order to digitise it, it's not exactly trivial taking good readable pics of a page, there's a reason scanners exist despite the prevalence of phones with cameras.
Accolade wrote: It looks like it's actually a different kit. You could easily get away with putting Harlies in Venoms and no one would notice the difference, but I'm guessing you pick this up for the crew. Hope it's priced the same as the Venom...
Look at the gap between the nose and the front of the canopy, it's quite a lot longer on the Starweaver, I think it's going to be 30-50% bigger than a Venom.
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