Took them awhile to realise that (potential) backers feel that the initial offering was gak ful and that their wave postage costs being an unknown quantity were hurting them. Of course, Shipping costs on WP aren't helping them, either.
Wave 2 shipping was on the front page since the add-on was up. It wasn't an unknown...
No.
Note that shipping charges above are estimates and are subject to change.
The "Estimates" changed quite a bit in Warpath. If you think that very example in and of itself, combined with 2 waves being estimates hasn't been hurting this Kickstarter, then you're sadly very mistaken. Not that the shipping charges are the only thing preventing wargamers jumping on board - especially in the US and RoW, but it's one of many factors.
MLaw wrote: I'm still trying to figure out why people are buying Mantic stuff at KS prices when you know it's going to be in the clearance section 3 months after release..
Yeah but don't you guys have Wayland Games or whatever? Also, doesn't Ronnie shower everyone with boxed sets every time the walk past Mantic HQ? (joking)
Wayland doesn't actually carry stock, so they can't really have liquidation sales. There's no shop in Europe that would order 100s or 1000s of the same product just to sit on it for a year and then almost give it away.
MLaw wrote: I'm still trying to figure out why people are buying Mantic stuff at KS prices when you know it's going to be in the clearance section 3 months after release..
If no one buys the Kickstarter stuff then Mantic won't make anything to sell to retailer who will have to clearance it. Retailers had gotten more Mantic savvy recently, that's why Mantic is trying to gain them back.
MLaw wrote: I'm still trying to figure out why people are buying Mantic stuff at KS prices when you know it's going to be in the clearance section 3 months after release..
If no one buys the Kickstarter stuff then Mantic won't make anything to sell to retailer who will have to clearance it. Retailers had gotten more Mantic savvy recently, that's why Mantic is trying to gain them back.
If Mantic can't figure out how to pay for new products without Kickstarter by now, they need to hire new people. Are we going to pretend that a company that has seemingly been successful at launching what.. 2 tabletop games, 4.. or.. I dunno how many by now.. boardgames (with expansions) and hosted events is incapable of producing kits without crowdfunding?
Didn't they say they were going to stop using crowd funding anyway? I know I read that somewhere..
adamsouza wrote: While I certainly hope the Greene Farm expansion will come with more figures, the 2 figures, rules, and some cardstock has been done before.
Dust Tactics had a half dozen box sets that were just some rules, some card tiles, and 2 figures.
Operation Cyclone Campaign Expansion (2 models) $39.95
Operation SeeLowe Campaign Expansion (2 models) $39.95
Operation Cerberus Campaign Expansion (2 models) $44.95
Operation Icarus Campaign Expansion (2 models) $44.95
Operation Hades Campaign Expansion (1 model) $44.95
Operation Zverograd Campaign Expansion (2 models + terrain) $44.95
GrimDork wrote: This entire awful thread has been worth it to see that awesome Michone (and company) conversion. Just need to source a katana...
Suetonius Paullinus wrote:The only 'conversions' I did were the hat and pistol for Carl (female survivors) and Michonne's katana (WGF's samurai warriors).
So yes, extremely easy and I think WGF had TWD in mind when designing this range of figures. I certainly wouldn't be surprised if one of the bikers would make a really good Daryl impression Wink
In any case..you gotta love multipart hard plastics!
Cheers
SP
Comparing anything to the wonderful success that DUST became may not be helping your argument.
MLaw wrote: I'm still trying to figure out why people are buying Mantic stuff at KS prices when you know it's going to be in the clearance section 3 months after release..
If no one buys the Kickstarter stuff then Mantic won't make anything to sell to retailer who will have to clearance it. Retailers had gotten more Mantic savvy recently, that's why Mantic is trying to gain them back.
If Mantic can't figure out how to pay for new products without Kickstarter by now, they need to hire new people. Are we going to pretend that a company that has seemingly been successful at launching what.. 2 tabletop games, 4.. or.. I dunno how many by now.. boardgames (with expansions) and hosted events is incapable of producing kits without crowdfunding?
Didn't they say they were going to stop using crowd funding anyway? I know I read that somewhere..
Hiring new people would be a capital idea. And how could they raise the capital to do that? KS, of course
Ronnie also mentioned last night that they will be adding a $75 pledge level looks like they have realised that $125 is more than most peoples impulse buy level.
MLaw wrote: Yeah but don't you guys have Wayland Games or whatever? Also, doesn't Ronnie shower everyone with boxed sets every time the walk past Mantic HQ? (joking)
Wouldn't touch Wayland with a bargepole.
Its in stock!
It isnt
Your order has been shipped
Well...a bit of it
How to contact us
We won't reply, but give it a go
I like Mantic, but their KS shtick has gotten rather old. Im not ashamed to admit that I went big on Xtreme but I've got sooooo much stuff from it that its actually a little depressing because I know most of it will never see a brush near it.
As for TWD, meh. The comics are very much "I've got no ending for this whhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeegive me money" and Ive never watched the series. Sculpts are ok I guess but I reckon that Warlord's Zombie offering is more interesting.
There are quite a few online shops in the UK that stock hobby miniatures, but none of them regularly do deep discounts to my knowledge. You might save 20% or so on the price if you're lucky (Outpost Wargames is good for this). I assume the economy of this niche here isn't large enough to do Miniature Market's mass-buying and clearance!
Kickstarters, especially for US-based companies, frequently represent the only opportunity to get this stuff at a decent price, so I'm less sensitive on them offering "the best ever possible value", although I do feel a fairly respectable discount is required to risk money so far in advance on a relative unknown.
I think that the small clamshell character expansions are basically a way of doing "blister packs" in a retail-friendly (and possibly boardgamer-friendly) way. These clamshells take up much less shelf space that numerous boxed expansions would (a la Arkham Horror), and are presumably cheaper to ship. Boardgamers like to feel that what they're buying contains all the rules required for that content, rather than "this is just a model, refer to the rules & cards in expansion 2 sold separately". That being said, a Walking Dead character needs a lot less gubbins than an X-Wing ship does, so this may still look more forced!
I just hope that any add ons they offer are good bargains. The rubber mats plus loot/barricades really was not a great deal, judging by the lack of a real bump in pledge dollars.
A lot of clamoring for a Zombie Add On! with one of each zombie sculpt. The game does not seem to need a ton of zombies, and if you want a ton of zombies there are a LOT cheap alternatives that will give you more variety and often better figures than Mantic gives. I suspect if offered it gives a slight bump in money pledged, but doubt it will be the money maker some assume it will be. (Many folks into zombie gaming already have good sized hordes.)
The Prison and Woodbury expansions will get pledge dollar increases, but honestly it may depend on what they charge. If Mantic says they are $40 MSRP, I assume I can get them for between $30-$35 retail. Especially if they offer them here in an incomplete form and we need a gak ton of stretch goals to complete them they may not be as immediately attractive as folks want them to be. When you are already in for $125, adding another $50+ (and your shipping) is not an insignificant jump.
That's part of the problem. All the sensible people see that Mantic is playing false stretch goals with only having two in the box. I guess we will see when this hits retail if the expansion only comes with those 2 models or if it comes with 6 or more. Mantic keeps playing silly games, lets just see what we are really getting and then we will decide if it's worth it or not.
They will make the retail box with 6 but if the KS doesnt unlock the miniature goals they will open every box, remove 4 of the minis and burn them all on a fire before sending only the unlocked portion to the backers
That's part of the problem. All the sensible people see that Mantic is playing false stretch goals with only having two in the box. I guess we will see when this hits retail if the expansion only comes with those 2 models or if it comes with 6 or more. Mantic keeps playing silly games, lets just see what we are really getting and then we will decide if it's worth it or not.
They will make the retail box with 6 but if the KS doesnt unlock the miniature goals they will open every box, remove 4 of the minis and burn them all on a fire before sending only the unlocked portion to the backers
Fake stretch goals are so transparent arnt they
They won't need to open a box, backers are not getting the retail packaging for the expansions if I remember correctly.
That's part of the problem. All the sensible people see that Mantic is playing false stretch goals with only having two in the box. I guess we will see when this hits retail if the expansion only comes with those 2 models or if it comes with 6 or more. Mantic keeps playing silly games, lets just see what we are really getting and then we will decide if it's worth it or not.
They will make the retail box with 6 but if the KS doesnt unlock the miniature goals they will open every box, remove 4 of the minis and burn them all on a fire before sending only the unlocked portion to the backers
Fake stretch goals are so transparent arnt they
They won't need to open a box, backers are not getting the retail packaging for the expansions if I remember correctly.
We'd probably get the kickstarter exclusive plastic baggies then.....and an add on for a game box which takes the cost higher than the retail packaging
Azazelx wrote: I got Kickstarter exclusive brown cardboard boxes for my DS pledge expansions. Most of them even had the correct contents!
You also got those exclusive import duties didn't you? You luck Australians get all the extras
Actually not yet. They're due to hit in the middle of next year. All the more reason to skip backing any more KS campaigns that don't ship from a local hub.
Nostromodamus wrote: I was under the impression the tray was for the core game and that expansion stuff would still just be thrown loose into a brown box.
I specifically asked about retail packaging for the expansion and got the following reply:
Mantic wrote:@Jake- the models will be carefully pcked in a tray like everything else in the pledge, but the expansion will not come with retail packaging.
Creator Mantic Games 31 minutes ago
@Jake Rose - the models will be carefully pcked in a tray like everything else in the pledge, but the expansion will not come with retail packaging.
Well that's a step in the right direction then. Maybe one day they'll attain CMON levels of providing products destined for retail in retail packaging. The old excuse of "you're getting such a good deal that it doesn't matter" doesn't really apply much these days.
I assume the trays are the CMON-style vaccum-formed packing trays, which is a good thing! They are not exactly environmentally friendly (probably contain more plastic than the figures they hold!) but do keep things nice and secure, and make breakages much less prone. Dungeon Saga backers know that this stuff can be snapped if just tossed loose in bags.
I'm not too concerned with having expansion boxes for this one, since it looks like all of the actual game content will fit inside the "collector's edition" base box. No Dungeon Saga style piles of tiles.
Trays, without the box to put them in, are pretty damned silly in my opinion.
If all the trays fit in the 'collector's edition' box I guess it won't be as big an issue. We'll see.
Having said that, the TWD Fans that Mantic assumed will back this in droves will WANT the 'cool' retail packaging for all the expansions. I guess not providing retail packaging will help garner more retail sales for Mantic from that group, but it comes with some level of potential backers never showing up as actual backers.
Some extra value is slowly creeping in, the addition of the Herschel's farm expansion helps.
The playtest rules are great, it is really well thought-out. I'm just not impressed by the price of the minis, Dungeon Saga had way more stuff in terms of minis, cards and cardstock, at least double what TWD currently has.. and that was only a $100, free ship pledge. This one is $145 to ship to US. Needs a lot more!
Licenses are expensive, think they've made the right decision by only providing rules with the purchase of a mini in this case, otherwise people would just take the (rather excellent) rules and buy some WGF minis to play it with.
Pre-assembled minis are a good thing at least, shouldn't take long to paint.
This is a difficult one, I'd like to get excited about it, but feel like that won't happen until the campaign is nearing to a close. The dollar has also risen massively against the pound, so it's going to need a lot to justify an £86.37 spend, that's way more than I'd pay for most high quality games at retail.
I disagree that the rules are well thought out. For what is really a modern skirmish game the poor handling of terrain is a bad thing. No rules for buildings yet you have scenarios in Atlanta. Survivors can't climb onto/over vehicles.
I just don't see how a modern skirmish game can get these things wrong and be considered well thought out.
Mantic has said they'll consider adding rules for buildings, we'll see what they come up with. It is a glaring omission both for a TWD themed game and really ANY skirmish game in a modern period.
Mantic has said they'll consider adding rules for buildings
So if they do appear they will be tacked on as an afterthought and not really work very well. We've seen this in previous projects like Deadzone, Dungeon Saga and Warpath, when they try to cram a fan request in just to say it's there so they can get more backers.
But yes, building and car rules should have been in there from the outset. Holing up in buildings and making a last stand on top of a car are iconic images in the zombie apocalypse genre.
I really want to get behind this game as my Girlfriend is a massive Walking Dead fan and think it would be the first game she would actually want to play (she was very tempted by Zombicide but not quite enough). Unfortunately there is just not enough value there at the moment and I can't see it reaching a point where there will be.
The total for the last 7 days is coming in at just over $21,000 (that is including today which hasn't finish yet but can't see it reaching $25k). At this rate we will only unlock the current stretch goals plus one more which is unlikely to even complete the free cut down expansion (one of the next goals is 3D wrecked cars so not exactly exciting as Mantic mentioned that they have now been signed off by Skybound). I know there is the last minute rush (although that isn't as considerable as it used to be) and hopefully some addons because otherwise this campaign is dead. Seen lots of comments from people saying they plan to drop pledge with others trying to persuade them to stay until the end. Had 4 earlier birds available for 20 minutes earlier before someone grabbed one of them (back to sold out again now but usually they go instantly on miniature campaigns).
Rules for standing on cars, I could see the rules for the RV working but remove the line of sight bonus and let a melee attack from a zombie/human next to the car hit on a 2 (one in 6 chance from a Walker).
Mantic asked the writer to create building rules whilst on a flight back from a meeting so not exactly expecting them to be that substantial although I am sure will be enough to cover the basics.
I think they could really do with having an expansion addon up as soon as possible, there is no momentum whatsoever at the moment which is losing them backers.
I've done my own research on licensing before, and most of the time you pay a yearly flat fee that's usually a few thousand bucks, depending on how popular it is. And then they usually want a small percentage / royalty of everything you sell with their name on it.
rwwin wrote: I couldn't find it on a quick search through the thread, but have any pictures been put out that show the actual scale of the figures?
No, I asked them to post a picture next to a Zombicide figure and asked them what the scale was. They e-mailed me back saying 30 mm scale and "What's Zombicide?"
Necros wrote: I've done my own research on licensing before, and most of the time you pay a yearly flat fee that's usually a few thousand bucks, depending on how popular it is. And then they usually want a small percentage / royalty of everything you sell with their name on it.
I'm guessing a 'big' and 'popular' license might cost a bit more than a few thousand though?
Or do those types of licenses make it up more on 'per sale' fees?
rwwin wrote: I couldn't find it on a quick search through the thread, but have any pictures been put out that show the actual scale of the figures?
No, I asked them to post a picture next to a Zombicide figure and asked them what the scale was. They e-mailed me back saying 30 mm scale and "What's Zombicide?"
I hope they weren't being serious with the second response...
Yeah I sure the comic license is a lot less than the show. And yeah I think the idea is they make more cash over the long run with royalties but you still gotta pony up some money to get in the door. A few years back we asked about one video game franchise and it was like $5000 plus a few percents for royalties.. but then, when we asked about Mass Effect, EA was like "lolno"
No, I asked them to post a picture next to a Zombicide figure and asked them what the scale was. They e-mailed me back saying 30 mm scale and "What's Zombicide?"
Ha! Because denial will work.
I'm not surprised that Mantic wouldn't put one out directly but sometimes a scale photo gets "leaked"
For me, not knowing scale is the last nail in the coffin on this one. I have tons of zeds but I'm always on the lookout for more. The bulk of my collection is Mantic Fantasy, Zombicide, Studio Miniatures and old Horrorclix. Most of them are 32mm and up, so not knowing if they'll play well with others means a pass from me until they're out in the wild.
The farm expansion has been added to the unlocked list although suspect that's a mistake rather than them just adding it in.
Three new addons listed. Two for duplicate walker packs both come with cards (guess these are new cards to try and attract backers). Final addon is another dice bag. Hopefully they actually put up a proper expansion addon as these addons are not going to do much.
Is there an issue with scale shots as currently (I assume) they only have resin masters and a degree of shrinkage occurs from the master to the production mini? I may be wrong though. This is crawling along like some dismembered...thing.
the PVC mixes do come out visibly smaller than the masters,
so a scale shot with them isn't going to work out
and will either scare people off when the minis don't match up scale wise, or attract them only to annoy them later when the photo shows the scales matching, and the actual product doesn't
Well all about to break loose as Ronnie Zombie is unlocked, glad I have a pledge . I'm still trying to figure out how though as they said at 2250 backers, unless they are counting how many people have backed and not deducting the ones that have backed out they are closer to 2150. Unless they count the retailer packs as 10.
The add on zombie cards are not unique they are the same as the ones you get in the pledge
Creator Mantic Games 3 minutes ago
@ Big Blue - nothing you won't get in Something to Fear.
I swapped to the $75 pledge the expansions didn't interest me (I mostly want the rules and terrain I have more zombies and survivors than I know what to do with) so this is closer to what I might be willing to stay backing for
Theophony wrote: Well all about to break loose as Ronnie Zombie is unlocked, glad I have a pledge . I'm still trying to figure out how though as they said at 2250 backers, unless they are counting how many people have backed and not deducting the ones that have backed out they are closer to 2150. Unless they count the retailer packs as 10.
I don't follow? The KS currently has 2,252 backers, therefore the stretchgoal has been achieved.
Some of those are probably $1 placeholders to get updates, of course.
I remember being told on some Dakka thread that my criticisms of Mantic's new shipping costs and less generous KS deals were about to become irrelevant because of an amazing, big deal, post-apocalyptic license that they were about to unleash. How right they were, and how baseless my criticism turned out to be. This license is selling itself. Clearly Mantic's new, less generous approach to kickstarters isn't impacting this campaign in any significant way.
When this Mantic campaign ends, I'll be very interested in seeing how the value stacks up against previous ones. I expect those objective comparisons - how much did you get for $150 with free shipping on (insert previous Mantic KS campaign here) vs. $125+shipping for TWD - will be telling. If no one else cares to, I'll put up some direct comparisons when it's all over.
I was considering dropping my pledge, but getting the the Atlanta and Farm boosters for only 40 bucks extra is too good of a deal.
But the value of the main pledge value hasn't increased, it's identical to what it was before... plus the farm expansion isn't even unlocked and once it is there will need to be several stretch goals to add back in the items they have removed from it.
I was considering dropping my pledge, but getting the the Atlanta and Farm boosters for only 40 bucks extra is too good of a deal.
But the value of the main pledge value hasn't increased, it's identical to what it was before... plus the farm expansion isn't even unlocked and once it is there will need to be several stretch goals to add back in the items they have removed from it.
I just saw that and mentioned it to my wife
That's hilarious you bring it up here
If nothing else, that new pledge level will create some impression of value in the higher one.
Aeneades wrote: Just noticed that the $7,500 pledge level to be sculpted as a zombie in the game has been removed. Wonder what the reasoning behind that was.
They probably realised that without drawing in a much larger total than they have, the 7500 would barely pay for itself. If someone had taken it, it would probably have ended the same way as the DS painted figure pledge.
Aeneades wrote: Just noticed that the $7,500 pledge level to be sculpted as a zombie in the game has been removed. Wonder what the reasoning behind that was.
Well given what happened with the DBX version of it, probably because the fallout from taking the money and then ignoring the pledger for years would come across badly
I don't know why every *bleeping* modern-day survivor miniature has to have a weapon, and I don't know of any unarmed survivors outside of metal figures that you still have to pay shipping for. If anyone knows of an inexpensive set, let me know. I've been reading session reports of All Things Zombie and that system sounds fun, but uses unarmed panicked civilians, and police (available from HeroClix). A few figures in an "I'm gonna die" pose at least brings variety to the "action shot" poses of most survivor miniatures. And I guess I can crossover TWD with Zombicide.
Oh, and I'm a fan of the TWD series, blah blah de blah blah.
You can build the Warlord Survivors unarmed. Even better, since you get multiple sprues you can build an unarmed, and an armed, and an armed differently version of the same character if you wish.
While I have some residual liking for Mantic, I'm actually glad that this one is underperforming to their expectations. The offering was severely undervalued as a retail package, let alone as a Kickstarter - and that's without considering the additional cost of shipping. Call it a (hopefully) learning experience for Mantic. I know, Mantic and learning. I'm hoping this is where Matt comes in
I saw in the comments of one of the updates, they were only counting $125 backers towards the Ronnie figure, not $1 backers. I presume they'll add the $75 backers to the same total not that it's also a thing.
rwwin wrote: I couldn't find it on a quick search through the thread, but have any pictures been put out that show the actual scale of the figures?
No, I asked them to post a picture next to a Zombicide figure and asked them what the scale was. They e-mailed me back saying 30 mm scale and "What's Zombicide?"
Whichever way you look at it - as a lie or as a truth - that's a fething stupid reply to come from someone managing a TWD kickstarter.
I don't know why every *bleeping* modern-day survivor miniature has to have a weapon, and I don't know of any unarmed survivors outside of metal figures that you still have to pay shipping for. If anyone knows of an inexpensive set, let me know. I've been reading session reports of All Things Zombie and that system sounds fun, but uses unarmed panicked civilians, and police (available from HeroClix). A few figures in an "I'm gonna die" pose at least brings variety to the "action shot" poses of most survivor miniatures. And I guess I can crossover TWD with Zombicide.
Oh, and I'm a fan of the TWD series, blah blah de blah blah.
Yeah... I'm going to go with the fact that this is a PVP, combat-based miniatures wargame.
The new update states that the main pledge will contain every wave 1 and 2 figure. That means that the two other big addons (Prison and Woodbury) are now free stretch goals, that there is a third shipping wave (which seems unlikely) or it's a mistype. Whilst having all the expansions as free stretch goals would be good I just can't see us getting there without some worthwhile addons to bulk up the current backers pledges.
Yeah, that was just my sarcastic cynicism. It also means that fulfilment will probably be the usual Mantic clusterfeth. I wonder if their next KS will actually have a decent value in it from the kickoff?
With as much KS experience that they have, HOW CAN YOU JACK THIS UP!?!?!?!?!
90% of this should have already been in production, and just a matter of sitting back, collecting pledges.... WHAT, you think that this WON'T sell?!?!?! LMAO!!!!
The Walking Dead is already for the next season in the next couple of days..... You really want to be known as the game company that crapped on their chips for this title?
Really? The Walking Dead.... You WANT to drop your trousers over that?!?!
Gimgamgoo wrote: Seems to have been some pledge level changes since I got the $125 one.
I can't really see much difference in the $125 and $75 pledge levels. Except the $125 gets the Atlanta expansion but the $75 gets retail packaging.
I don't get it at all. A $75 pledge and then a $40 expansion is still cheaper than splashing $125.
Can someone explain it all. At this point I'm just thinking of dropping out.
The difference between the pledge levels is that Something to Fear gets:
- The Collector's Edition Box
- Atlanta Camp
- Greene Family Farm
- Dice Bag and Dice Booster
- All Wave 2
Is the new pledge level subject to the same shipping cost?
Because that was jacked up 50% from what it was initially after they decided not to charge wave 2 shipping. But the new pledge doesn't get wave 2 items...
Edit: Looks like the new pledge level has the same shipping cost as what the original shipping charge for the higher tier was.
Azazelx wrote: Yeah, that was just my sarcastic cynicism. It also means that fulfilment will probably be the usual Mantic clusterfeth. I wonder if their next KS will actually have a decent value in it from the kickoff?
Well being Mantic we will only have to wait a couple weeks to find out about their next Kickstarter.
Azazelx wrote: Yeah, that was just my sarcastic cynicism. It also means that fulfilment will probably be the usual Mantic clusterfeth. I wonder if their next KS will actually have a decent value in it from the kickoff?
Well being Mantic we will only have to wait a couple weeks to find out about their next Kickstarter.
Coming soon, the Kickstarter to fund another Kickstarter...
CptJake wrote: You can build the Warlord Survivors unarmed. Even better, since you get multiple sprues you can build an unarmed, and an armed, and an armed differently version of the same character if you wish.
Nostromodamus wrote: Is the new pledge level subject to the same shipping cost?
Because that was jacked up 50% from what it was initially after they decided not to charge wave 2 shipping. But the new pledge doesn't get wave 2 items...
Edit: Looks like the new pledge level has the same shipping cost as what the original shipping charge for the higher tier was.
...despite the fact that the original (one wave) shipping charge for the higher tier covered shipping a lot more stuff.
around 24 mins they briefly play around with some of the minis (they say test prints) so you can get an idea of scale (although there will be a bit of shrinkage you'll at least be sure of maximum size)
then some chat about the game up to about 40 mins eg rules for 'inside' are being worked on but it sounds like very early days and will eventually show up in a expansion (prison?)
CptJake wrote: You can build the Warlord Survivors unarmed. Even better, since you get multiple sprues you can build an unarmed, and an armed, and an armed differently version of the same character if you wish.
Thanks!!!
I have the Zombie Vixens, but haven't assembled them yet. (Got 'em a year ago, of course.) I read reviews of the Male and Female Warlord Factory Survivors, but didn't know you could make an armed and unarmed version of the same character! Found 'em at Miniature Market and put them on my Wishlist. Naturally, they're out of stock!
Distribution of the Wargames Factory plastics has (mostly) been taken over by Warlord Games - who have just announced a zombie game called Project Z, using those very sprues.
You'll get more detail in the News and Rumours forum, but it looks like the game will be showcased in April at the Salute show. Word was that the first Wargames Factory sprue, the male zombies, will be reworked, but the rest - Zombie Vixens and Male and Female Survivors - are ready to go.
We will probably also see a couple of new plastic sets that have been shown but not released - bikers and a generic modern soldier sprue (also in News and Rumours).
And it just so happens you can make several "characters" with the survivors sprue - including sheriff, armed boy and katana-wielding lady...
To whoever said you can make unarmed survivors from the wargamesfactory/warlord sets, have you got photos? I found it hard to build 'modestly armed' civilians without assault rifles uzis or rocket launchers, and what did you do for empty hands? Virtually all of the hands have weapons or are rifle bracing arms with the wrong pose for anything else.
I mean it's not impossible, but its about the same effort to remove stuff from other offerings so I'm not sure I'd tout that as a virtue of the kits. I've heard the zombie vixen arms help but I've found them to be MUCH scrawnier than the female survivors.
They're great kits, but unarmed/cowering would involve greenstuff IMO.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also there is NO katana on those sprues, but earlier in this thread we did see a very nice conversion for Michone that involved a katana from...somewhere.
I never said you could make cowering versions, and frankly I would not want to if you could. There are empty hands, not putting a weapon in them seems to be an option, but you are right, even the empty hands are posed as if they would be holding something.
Then again, there are enough 'improvised' weapons like the tennis racket that I think work for the 'unarmed'. I always considered 'armed to have actual weapons. Should have made that more clear.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to jump down your throat about it, I just had a limited amount of time to explain and I didn't want anyone getting too excited and being disappointed. You can certainly make lightly, or possibly ineffectually armed survivors, that's doable.
It's almost worth ordering the samurai to get one katana for Michone... Almost.
The one guy kind of looks like Bruce Willis... Sweet. That boy could be carrying two bottles of water to with a quick snip so I guess you can make a few unarmed survivors.
GrimDork wrote: Sorry, I wasn't trying to jump down your throat about it, I just had a limited amount of time to explain and I didn't want anyone getting too excited and being disappointed. You can certainly make lightly, or possibly ineffectually armed survivors, that's doable.
It's almost worth ordering the samurai to get one katana for Michone... Almost.
Warlord tends to offer single sprues as well as the boxes, so it would be easy to get just one. Having said that, there are companies like Hasslefree that sell weapon sprues, I suspect sourcing a Katana won't be difficult.
Also there is NO katana on those sprues, but earlier in this thread we did see a very nice conversion for Michone that involved a katana from...somewhere.
My mistake, that's the conversion I was thinking of.
There's also a katana-like sword on the WGF Orc sprue.. if you want one, I seem to have several lying around.
Overall in any high danger situation its human nature to arm yourself with something even if it is ineffective as there is a psychological benefit to be in a 'im ready to fight' mentality
GrimDork wrote: Sorry, I wasn't trying to jump down your throat about it, I just had a limited amount of time to explain and I didn't want anyone getting too excited and being disappointed. You can certainly make lightly, or possibly ineffectually armed survivors, that's doable.
It's almost worth ordering the samurai to get one katana for Michone... Almost.
I've got some, and i need to send you orclings and the x-wing items. i'll try and get them out this week. resend me your address
GrimDork wrote: The one guy kind of looks like Bruce Willis... Sweet. That boy could be carrying two bottles of water to with a quick snip so I guess you can make a few unarmed survivors.
Thanks! these are my zombicide season 1 phomo character stand-ins and he is the bruce stand in
the bottles dont have the flames, thats a conversion.
Just looking at the sprues, there are alot of open hands, the bottles i cut off from the backpacks and glued to open hands, 2 arms holding cans, 2 with bibles, a few rounder military style water bottles
Google wargames factory survivor sprues and it will show what is in there
I used the bottles to make twin molotovs and the model on the left has a can of dog food
Love that pic! Good work!
Obviously not going to buy a whole kit just for a specific weapon, but I've definitely put the kits in my Want list so will pick them up as well as TDW!
Q5: On Rick Grimes’ character card, what color are his Melee, Shoot, and Defense dice?
A) White, Red, White
B) Blue, White, White
C) White, White, White
D) Blue, Blue, Red
On the graphic they are white, white, white
On his stat card in the playtest they are white, blue, white
Damn. Also, who actually shot Grimes? Wiki says Shane did, but theres no mention of a coma... Only that he was comatose when everything started. Really annoying. <.<
I don't know why every *bleeping* modern-day survivor miniature has to have a weapon, and I don't know of any unarmed survivors outside of metal figures that you still have to pay shipping for. If anyone knows of an inexpensive set, let me know. I've been reading session reports of All Things Zombie and that system sounds fun, but uses unarmed panicked civilians, and police (available from HeroClix). A few figures in an "I'm gonna die" pose at least brings variety to the "action shot" poses of most survivor miniatures. And I guess I can crossover TWD with Zombicide.
Oh, and I'm a fan of the TWD series, blah blah de blah blah.
Here are some unarmed civilians from Old Glory's Superfigs range.
Tyr13 wrote: Damn. Also, who actually shot Grimes? Wiki says Shane did, but theres no mention of a coma... Only that he was comatose when everything started. Really annoying. <.<
At the very start of the comics (and TV show) Rick was shot by an unnamed character and goes into a coma, waking up in the middle of the zombie apocalypse.
Tyr13 wrote: Damn. Also, who actually shot Grimes? Wiki says Shane did, but theres no mention of a coma... Only that he was comatose when everything started. Really annoying. <.<
At the very start of the comics (and TV show) Rick was shot by an unnamed character and goes into a coma, waking up in the middle of the zombie apocalypse.
Rick and Shane stop a gang of bank robbers or something using a spike strip to disable their car. Rick is shot in the shootout and put into a coma. Happens in both the show and the comics.
MangoMadness wrote: Overall in any high danger situation its human nature to arm yourself with something even if it is ineffective as there is a psychological benefit to be in a 'im ready to fight' mentality
Pretty much. Humans are tool users. Rock, stick, brick, piece of pipe, something, anything...
Still not seeing the value personally but good for those who do.
It's interesting to see that the numbers started to grow quite a bit around the addition of the 75$ pledge, but only 50 of those pledges has been taken so the increase mostly comes from ordinary 125$ pledges and from add-ons.
Zywus wrote: Starting to pick up some pace now, over 315k
Still not seeing the value personally but good for those who do.
It's interesting to see that the numbers started to grow quite a bit around the addition of the 75$ pledge, but only 50 of those pledges has been taken so the increase mostly comes from ordinary 125$ pledges and from add-ons.
Most of the increase comes from a surge in new backers, the TV show is back on air now, so the IP is getting good exposure.
Yeah, I don't get the assumption that a large number of TV viewers are interested in the comic AND wargamers. I don't know if the bump is attributable to that, the BOW video, actual trial rules being released, or the new pledge level but I'd say that it's likely a combination of all the above rather than the one.
I think adding in the add-ons is what finally started numbers to creep, but the trial rules have brought people in. Theres just not enough content for me, for the same price as my base eb pledge I could pick up another copy of any of the zombicide stuff and some expansion packs to get even more figures and a tested game. Sure it's not a wargame, but my kids are more in line with the boardgame than a mass combat game, and the models look better in my opinion. I love the show, haven't picked up the comics, so i cannot tell how close the characters are to the models, but the ones I've seen so far just aren't screaming buy me. BOW videos do get games out to the audience. I know that unless something on kickstarter gets a thread here I just don't hear about it at all.
Once you factor in shipping and any customs charges you can lose a lot of the savings. Add 20% plus £8 to the cost of an order plus shipping when you decide if an order is worth buying or not
Looks like prison is unlocked by default today. Stretch goals to fill it out. Just art for the prison croud. Sniper Andrea sounds promising, they nailed the first version. Tyreese... Maybe he looks like that in the comics but I'm not feeling it. $40 expansion with 4 models to start, but we'll probably see a little more and some walkers. If they add Woodbury too it'll push the 'have it all' up to $205... Probably too rich for my blood.
The fact that the rest of the expansions will be add ons means wave 2 shipping and a longer wait, so I'm out. The sculpts don't look as good as I imagined either. If the rules turn out decent I have enough models to use for this, and I can just buy the core set later. But the update did end with a picture of the Rick figure in front of a resin/ plastic pick up, so the terrain add ons might start flowing.
Tyreese doesn't look like a misproportioned army soldier in the comics.
I think I've had it. Another chunky miniature. Another expansion that isn't worth it. Another set of SG's that don't add to the pledge. Another Mantic KS.
Acheson Creations has their terrain KS starting either tomorrow or the 27th, and I'm looking forward to this monstrosity. Rawr. :
Painted Tyreese - looks a bit better from this angle but the pose is still off. Glenn is getting reposed so hopefully they can do some work on Tyreese too. I think they have over compensated for PVC shrinkage with some of these minis.
DaveC wrote: Painted Tyreese - looks a bit better from this angle but the pose is still off. Glenn is getting reposed so hopefully they can do some work on Tyreese too. I think they have over compensated for PVC shrinkage with some of these minis.
Has it been mentioned in the comments, and...commented on by Mantic?
Wow thats crap, anyone else try and stand like the model pose? feet pointing in different directions with torso twisted slightly left with right arm bent all the way back in line with the shoulders?
DaveC wrote: Painted Tyreese - looks a bit better from this angle but the pose is still off. Glenn is getting reposed so hopefully they can do some work on Tyreese too. I think they have over compensated for PVC shrinkage with some of these minis.
Has it been mentioned in the comments, and...commented on by Mantic?
Creator Mantic Games about 10 hours ago
@ QuestsofLegend - in fairness, the studio knew there was something off and it just took someone to say it. He's gone straight out and altered Glenn.
For Tyreese there have been plenty of backer comments about the pose and this response
Creator Mantic Games about 10 hours ago
I will pass the feedback onto the studio.
Creator Mantic Games about 10 hours ago @ QuestsofLegend - in fairness, the studio knew there was something off and it just took someone to say it. He's gone straight out and altered Glenn.
Well we know this mini looks rubbish, but there's no point re-doing it because nobody has complained yet!
Let's just keep quite and nip off to lunch, maybe we'll get lucky and it well get to mould tooling before anybody noticed and then it will be too late!
exaggeration maybe, but really NOT what you want from a company
Mantic wrote: Tyreese has a special rule meaning that if he’s on the winning side he can potentially knock down opposing survivors. In addition, he is Respected, which is a neat way of potentially getting your survivors extra actions.
Prison walkers for the prison and cars for March to War and up. There's so much more to come on The Walking Dead Kickstarter. Until next time survivors!
Some Prison walkers included in the box would make the Prison expansion more tempting.
Doesn't the Mars Attack line include some vehicles they could repack and repurpose for Walking Dead ?
Yeah I think it was antenocities workshop, there were two 3 car sets, an individual car, and a couple of sets of scatter terrain all in resin and I dint think any of it survived to retail. Unless the scatter was already AW stock but I'm unsure.
The patriot silverback work/army truck would still be available, but that's just one design and would get boring fast on its own, so I suspect new if anything.
Cars. 4 in pledges, 4 added to scenery bundle. Material not mentioned in update.
Total closing on 350k adding two prison zoms and tyreese at 360k or so. I'm still cautious but they have my attention. If they keep up their momentum and keep the goodies flowing... Will be hard to ignore in two weeks
Riot Gear Walker, the bane zombie hunters everywhere. It's damn hard to get a head shot when they helment and face shield.
You will get one prison walker and one walker in riot gear as part of the prison expansion add-on. A walker in riot gear is harder than an ordinary walker to kill so you will also get a new walker reference card with updated stats.
Finally, you get 6 new equipment cards, including two shotguns, taser and a tear gas grenade – some seriously powerful weapons to load-out your group with!
The cars a BIG addition for me. The cheapest die cast cars, in the appropriate scale, are usually at least $6+ each.
These four cars are also added to the scenery booster add-on in addition to the two deluxe gaming mats, 10 supply markers and 6 barricades giving you more terrain for those larger games!
$75 ($18 postage RoW) vs $125 pledge ($35 postage RoW)
For $67 the differences are:
Collectors box - whoop-de-doo
Sheriffs badge - lol Dice and bag - Useful $12 Value
Atlanta Expansion - rules, 6 models, 4 characters etc. $40? value
Green Farm - rules, 4 models etc $40? value
Glenn
Tyrese (future KS goal)
Note: Abandoned cars stretch goal gets added to both.
I guess if you want to commit to the game the extra $67 might make sense but its not *great* value. The base March to War $75 ($93 delivered) pledge isnt looking too bad with the assumed addition of the car terrain. its not great but as a boxed game around $100 delivered it isnt too bad.
They have said there will be some more additions exclusive to the $125 pledge before the end of the campaign so I would expect the value to improve at least a little.
So I don't have to put them together (score, honestly). Given that they just chucked four of them into the main pledge and the (already pretty decent) $40 scenery add-on, I think expecting high quality multipart plastic kits would be silly, though it wouldn't hurt them to point it out initially (as they gotta know we're gonna ask...).
So maybe a little bendy like the bigger dungeon saga stuff? Though most of that was because they were attached to bases that got moved and made them bend. Softer than restic therefore easier to clean. I think I'd be happy with the cars.
So... no $1 pledge level just so I can add on the scenery right? Of course not, probably the one thing they won't give in on
Yeah no $1 pledge add later in the PM option this time you must select at least the $75 level any funds pledged at "No Reward" will be refunded straight after the close
No Reward Level Terms & Conditions
All backers with no selected pledge level once the campaign closes will be refunded, in full, immediately on the campaign ending. Please select your preferred pledge when backing to ensure you get your rewards.
I can respect that, other projects do it and $1 addon pledges probably don't help with packing issues. That said, this is still definitely not a 'no brainer' project and no add-on pledge may mean no pledge for me.
If they can get out a reasonable Firefight beta even, I may look at warpath. The cars have kicked this one up a notch but we're still paying for s lot of game aids (cards, expansion materials, etc) that don't show favorably in what seems to be the common minis/dollar standard value assessment.
Has anyone done a body count for this one lately? I think if they manage to court a million the value will be pretty significant, but if they lose their current momentum and finish at 500k you'll have to be a fan or not have any other modern/zombie stuff for it to be as desirable. Got a long way to go before 'can't miss'.
All of these miniatures and terrain can also find plenty of use in All Thing Zombie and Zombicide Games, or frankly whatever Zompocalyptic tabletop miniatures game you prefer.
adamsouza wrote: All of these miniatures and terrain can also find plenty of use in All Thing Zombie and Zombicide Games, or frankly whatever Zompocalyptic tabletop miniatures game you prefer.
While true, there are cheaper ways to build up zombie hordes and appropriate terrain, and many folks (such as myself) already have pretty decent sized collections. So, in my case, if the game is not good, there is little here to attract me.
I'm almost more afraid of the FFG X-Wing style card hoarding than I am the cost. I prefer my loot to exist in the main rulebook on a table. If you also have a game aid set of cards, that's great. But if they're necessary and artificially scarce... gets expensive to be competitive or to add variation.
Well as others have pointed out, there's not likely going to be a tournament set up for this, so I'm sure the cards will be available one way or another online. Then you print them and put them in a sleeve of your choice and everyone can have sawed offs . I'm still in, the vehicles have me staying right now, but I'll be checking for some 1/43 scale cars some time this week.
Amazon has them pretty regularly for $7ish, though you don't always get your choice. That's one reason I see a lot of value in the car addition, one of the closest comparisons is $28 to get the same thing. I mean in nice diecast with opening parts...but if you're gonna wreck and paint if anyway that doesn't matter.
I'm out, but I'm watching. If it blows up the value may bring me home. There's a lot SE crying for my attention though, even within the same genre .
Amazon has diecast cars for $5+ all day.
There are some bundle deals on amazon for those as well but they're not always obvious. I had looked at a USPS delivery van and I didn't notice but it had a bundle option to add a camper.. by itself the USPS van as like $7 but the 2 together were something like $12. There's an ice cream truck/food truc/ taco truck combo floating around too.
Police cars can be annoying because they tend to be very specific. If the car is actual diecast and not plastic, simple finger nail polish remover can remove the city identifier.
I've been compulsively collecting 1:43ish vehicles for a while and have a pretty large collection going for gaming. Everything from those green john deere lawn carts that landscapers drive in to a Batmobile, the car from Supernatural, even some big rigs and dump trucks. I don't think I paid more than $15 for any of that but it takes some careful shopping and creative looking (toy aisles). You also need to learn how to gauge unmarked toy cars. I have a few from the dollar store (yup $1 each) that are the right scale. Those tend to need a new paintjob though.
Sorry for the off-topic post but it seemed relevant to the discussion at hand.
I don't doubt you can luck into some deals, but I just went through a dozen pages of 1/43 cars on Amazon and most were $15+, with only a few around $10.
Occasionally you strike gold at the Dollar Store, Walmart, or Toys R Us, etc... and find some cheaper, but it's really the exception and not the norm.
That said, 10 loot markers, 4 barricades, 2 gaming mats, and now 4 cars for $40 is looking more and more attractive, especiall if they are not done adding to it.
Indidently, someone needs to tell reaper to do some modern vehiclesin the their next Bones kickstarter.
Have you.... have you been in this hobby long? Talked to many folks? Ever met a historical player/modeler?
A little bit of extra detail can go a looong way to making even more engaging terrain and games. It's a bit OCD, but for some people having a NYPD car in smalltown America is too much.
Looks like the total is still trucking though not with as much momentum as a couple three days ago.
bound for glory wrote: Do people really worry about what it says on vehicles?
Thats crazy OCD.
LOL.. yeah.. I actually looked for about a week and a half of moderate searching for a police interceptor that matched the truck I already had that only said Police with no precinct or jurisdiction indicator. They all have the same numbers on them though which bothers me. I'll be altering those in the near future.
I have a Jurassic World Land Rover that I'll be removing the logo from and an 80s movie style Batmobile that has a batman emblem on top which I'm removing since that's not actually there in the movie. Yes.. we actually do pay attention to some superficial details. Is it bizarre since we tend to be okay with ruined buildings that have single layer floors with no pipes and wires and no rubble? Yeah.. a bit. Or a diner that's well painted but there are absolutely no plates or trays or napkins anywhere.. Yes.. it is an odd situation but such is the life of a gamer.
GrimDork wrote: Have you.... have you been in this hobby long? Talked to many folks? Ever met a historical player/modeler?
A little bit of extra detail can go a looong way to making even more engaging terrain and games. It's a bit OCD, but for some people having a NYPD car in smalltown America is too much.
LooksW like the total is still trucking though not with as much momentum as a couple three days ago.
Well, yeah, i've been in this hobby quite some time. Almost 50 years old, went to my first con in 1976(cherry hill, new jersey).
I've never known ANYONE to fret over what it says on a car door.
Whatever man. Whatever.
GrimDork wrote: Have you.... have you been in this hobby long? Talked to many folks? Ever met a historical player/modeler?
A little bit of extra detail can go a looong way to making even more engaging terrain and games. It's a bit OCD, but for some people having a NYPD car in smalltown America is too much.
LooksW like the total is still trucking though not with as much momentum as a couple three days ago.
Well, yeah, i've been in this hobby quite some time. Almost 50 years old, went to my first con in 1976(cherry hill, new jersey).
I've never known ANYONE to fret over what it says on a car door.
Whatever man. Whatever.
I can only speak for myself but it's kinda like collecting a set of coins or spoons or stamps.. or comics.. there's stupid little details about it that makes it seem to fit better. For example.. model railroaders.. all they're doing is building a traintrack for an electric train right? So why would they care if their 1950's era train setup (including the town and stuff) accidentally had a pickup truck from the 1960s... or a type of newspaper stand that wasn't used on that coast... They do care. It's not that it effects the game or anyone's ability to have fun.. it's more (for me) about having little details that I can see when I'm setting up and hopefully others notice and pick up on.. My IG army for 40k.. I noticed ALL my troopers had fresh magazines in their guns and they all seemed to be firing furiously.. Nobody was reloading.. so.. I went through several of them and cut the clips out of their guns, hollowed them out, and modeled clips so they would be in various stages of reloading. I know many people that drill their barrels (I do) even though it's obvious that no projectile will be coming from the little guns.. I've caught discussions where people were debating whether or not Heresy era bolters in 40k fired caseless ammunition (modeling bullet casings was in question).
At the end of the day, it's all for fun and enjoyment. It's kinda odd that someone who has been in the hobby would be so dismissive of how others in the hobby choose to enjoy it though.
I understand about model RR, i know a few guys who are into that, but like i've said, in almost 40 years of being "in this hobby", i've never seen anyone worry about what a vehicle door said.
The Warlord bundle deal for Project Z looks to offer a LOT of value. It may compete with this for folks wanting Zombies but not needing them to be explicitly tied to The Walking Dead.
Earlier this morning you blasted through Tyreese, unlocking the big man and his character card in Something to Fear.
Tyreese is now included in Something to Fear. Final sculpt will be tweaked to have the feet turned in a bit.
Tyreese is a fan favourite and now everyone at Something to Fear will get him!
With Tyreese achieved, we heading towards the Abandoned Cars – and wow, over halfway there already! When we hit the stretch goal, 4 3D plastic cars will get unlocked in Something to Fear and March to War.
And will be added to the Scenery Booster add-on.
And what’s next?
Stretch Goal: $385,000 – Prison Walkers and Equipment Cards
So you liked these guys huh?
Well, they've been so popular we will sculpt 2 more unique prison Walkers (different to the ones in the photo above) – one more in prison jumpsuit and one more in riot gear.
When we break this stretch goal you’ll get them both in the Prison Expansion add-on with a selection of 4 new equipment cards, including a silencer and scope.
Just like Sniper Andrea, these two figures will not be available in the Prison set at retail, they are in addition to the starting contents, putting the total value of the Prison expansion at $60 with much more to come
Add on the Prison Expansion add-on now to get expand your game with narrative scenarios, meaning you can play through the next part of the storyline, and get a prison themed gaming mat.
The set includes themed event cards and scenery - including a prison tower and chain linked fences - and riot gear to kit out your survivors with.
There are also four new survivor miniatures included in the set, expanding your selection of bad guys.
So the prison is pushing up to 9 figures once the bonus prison walkers are included? Getting better. I surely don't expect so many as 20 figures in the booster before it's over, but going past a dozen will surely help keep people pledging for it. Now to go look up this Project Z development that has been mentioned...
GrimDork wrote: Have you.... have you been in this hobby long? Talked to many folks? Ever met a historical player/modeler?
A little bit of extra detail can go a looong way to making even more engaging terrain and games. It's a bit OCD, but for some people having a NYPD car in smalltown America is too much.
Well, yeah, i've been in this hobby quite some time. Almost 50 years old, went to my first con in 1976(cherry hill, new jersey).
I've never known ANYONE to fret over what it says on a car door.
Whatever man. Whatever.
Wanting things to be accurate is a big part of the historical side of wargaming, which I'd imagine that you should well know if you've been involved in the hobby in any scope outside of your local group of friends who gather in a specific place to play. A similar desire for accuracy and detail is something that many of us who also play Fantasy/Sci-fi enjoy.
adamsouza wrote: I don't doubt you can luck into some deals, but I just went through a dozen pages of 1/43 cars on Amazon and most were $15+, with only a few around $10.
Occasionally you strike gold at the Dollar Store, Walmart, or Toys R Us, etc... and find some cheaper, but it's really the exception and not the norm.
That said, 10 loot markers, 4 barricades, 2 gaming mats, and now 4 cars for $40 is looking more and more attractive, especiall if they are not done adding to it.
Indidently, someone needs to tell reaper to do some modern vehiclesin the their next Bones kickstarter.
They make these in Mexico for about 50 cents, each. I picked up the Mystery Machine hippy V W van for about a buck. Its flower power, but, wtf, its a cool looking van.
Why would people not care about the writing on the side of a car. A lot of work goes into building a convincing table or game and people often care about getting the right colour for uniforms the right model for a particular character or the right kind of car for a game why would someone who has gone through the effort of getting suburban terrain and painting rick in the right colour uniform not want to get cars that don't have NYPD on the side. In the same way if I buy cars to use in the batman game I am going to want the blank or to gcpd on the side not NYPD. If you don't care what's written on the side of a car or what colour someone is painted that's grand but don't accuse people of being OCD if they do.
GrimDork wrote: Have you.... have you been in this hobby long? Talked to many folks? Ever met a historical player/modeler?
A little bit of extra detail can go a looong way to making even more engaging terrain and games. It's a bit OCD, but for some people having a NYPD car in smalltown America is too much.
Well, yeah, i've been in this hobby quite some time. Almost 50 years old, went to my first con in 1976(cherry hill, new jersey).
I've never known ANYONE to fret over what it says on a car door.
Whatever man. Whatever.
Wanting things to be accurate is a big part of the historical side of wargaming, which I'd imagine that you should well know if you've been involved in the hobby in any scope outside of your local group of friends who gather in a specific place to play. A similar desire for accuracy and detail is something that many of us who also play Fantasy/Sci-fi enjoy.
It's all a matter of how OCD the person is, and this is a hobby that practically requires some level of OCD to partake in.
Spend lots of money on toy soldiers, take hours assembling them, spend more hours painting them, learn rules for game, build terrain, argue about it all on the internets, maybe occasionally get an actual game in.
Alpharius wrote: I did just the opposite - dropped my early bird yesterday.
I think with everything that Mantic has done through the Kickstarter Years, I'm better off waiting for retail, if even then.
This one will still do OK, of course, but the sculpts and the 'value' just aren't doing it for me.
Wish you had told me when mate, I would have jumped in on it
I'm just in at the basic level one at the moment, will have a look at the Project Z stuff at Salute* and see how they compare. As others have said, it says something that you'll just be able to buy this from Warlord, with no BS about a Kickstarter. But, hopefully will get the rules for both at least and see how they shape up against each other.
*although thinking about it I might well be distracted by Konflikt '47 and forget all about zombies!
Well, no word on what the Warlord rules will be like so far. If it doesn't have a campaign system, I'm not interested, zombie games are all about survival/ scavenging and really need a campaign element.
I like the narrative style of TWD as well, lots of themed scenarios to play through is good.
Still unsure about this one, mainly just a matter of competing funds between this and Warpath. I bought in big to Mars Attacks, and now that I know the license was dropped after a year I'm wary of buying into more licensed IP (even though I'm a huge Mantic and TWD fan.. it's odd, I *should* be going nuts for this, but something is wrong).
I feel like there's been this huge glut of poorly handled licensed IP games recently, released with great fanfare only to die off after a few months.
The thing I find especially strange, is that the Mars Attacks license cannot have been very expensive! This is an IP that encompasses a single moderately obscure Time Burton film, a few issues of a comic, and 2 sets of trading cards. Mantic (admittedly via the 'free credit' of Kickstarter) invested half a million dollars into producing a complete product line, every additional unit of which sold would be profit-making. They even boasted at the time how it was their best-preordered game ever! And it has been dropped faster than just about any tabletop license I can think of - even that Starship Troopers game was around longer, correct?
So yes, definitely a concern that a more expensive Walking Dead licence might not stick around, even if it drives more steady sales.
Am I correct that the mini count at $125 + shipping is currently at 47 minis (some of them repeat sculpts)? For a Mantic KS, that still feels sub par. Granted, it isn't over yet, so it will be interesting to see where it ends up. But investing $150 or so in a game and getting paper mats feels pretty cheap. Currently no larger units or vehicles, either - just the trashed cars. Or are those usable?
I'm also not a big fan of the miniatures this time around. I always prefer multi-part miniatures, as you get more 3-D / posing possibilites with those, whereas single-cast miniatures force you to adopt limited poses just so you can get the model in one piece. It's a general problem not limited to this Kickstarter, although some sculptors deal with it better than others. I'm also not a fan of the aesthetic of these miniatures. I think some of that is down to an attempt to mimic the artwork from the comics - even the barricades look a bit "cartoony." So if you are a fan of the comics, your mileage etc.
It's pretty clear that in this KS, you're paying for the license, which is (I presume) why Mantic are offering less this time around. (We'll see where it ends up, sure. But Mars Attacks got you a high quality Mat, debris, scenery, a giant robot, a saucer, a hard plastic truck, and lots of minis for $150. I'm doubtful that the Walking Dead will end up in that ballpark.) So maybe that's fine if you really love the license. I'm not sure it's a great deal if you just want a zombie game, unless the rules really are incredible.
With the value still not convincing, I don't see what you gain by pre-investing so far. If I wait for retail, I can get the base game for $50, discounted, if I want to try it - and that's assuming that the game is successful, holds its value, and doesn't end up on clearance. The exclusives are pretty poor this time around, too.
This is a good one for me to watch to see which way the wind is blowing with Mantic's "less for more" trajectory, because I'm not interested in another zombie game regardless. But if the theme were suddenly switched to something I am into, like Deadzone or Project Pandora, I'd still be sitting this one out based on the (in my opinion) lacking quality and quantity of what's been offered so far.
scarletsquig wrote: Well, no word on what the Warlord rules will be like so far. If it doesn't have a campaign system, I'm not interested, zombie games are all about survival/ scavenging and really need a campaign element.
Not a whole lot of info on their site about the rules yet but they do have a scavenging mechanic if this blurb is accurate:
Fight to survive in the abandoned streets of a post-apocalyptic world infested by unnatural creatures hungry for your flesh. Scavenge for scarce supplies whilst battling against the dead and the living alike; there are no laws, there are no rules, only the fight.
They're going to showcase it at Salute, I imagine it would be worth a look if you're in the London area and/or plan to visit.
Man, that pre-order is massive, all those minis for $175? and all hard plastic. ::drool:: no wobbly restic or boardgame plastic, no need for hot water.... Honestly, the rules could be crap and it would still be a good buy to use with other rules.
In a vacuum, Warlord wins this one, I think. Given that I already have a big ol' box of their existing kits, tho, I'm not too keen on having to buy extra zombies and survivors to get the rules.
lord_blackfang wrote: In a vacuum, Warlord wins this one, I think. Given that I already have a big ol' box of their existing kits, tho, I'm not too keen on having to buy extra zombies and survivors to get the rules.
Meh, it's a preorder bundle that includes metal, feral dogs; it's a pretty safe assumption that they'll offer everything separately after release. Another thing to consider is scale, Mantic is going for a larger scale for their game which means my horde of zombies that I already own won't fit well; not a huge issue but something to consider.
Man... even as a Mantic guy, I have to admit I am drooling over Project Z. At that price, the models alone are a steal, and the rules will probably be quite solid, especially if built off the back of Bolt-Action/Antares, as many expect.
I don't get why anything that wasn't a last minute idea, like the terrain pack, is shipping wave 2.
Abraham is Wave 1, but Maggie, who's in more comics and is from Hershel's Farm, is wave 2.
Project Z
Spoiler:
I really like the Project Z figures, soo much in fact I already own most of them. They are just repacking old figures, with half as many in a box. We know nothing about the rules. The Male zombies, unless they are resculpts, are widely considered substandard. The bikers look like a cool new addition, but the dogs lost my interest when they turned out to be metal.
Wait, I take some of that back, thse are defintely new Male Zombies
Not thrilled about the soldiers, but those are new sculpts, or at least not a previuos Wargames Factory release.
The walking female ganger, I hope her arms or seperate, and there are only 2 bikes per box. When I read biker gang, I just imagined they'd all be on bikes.
$175 Deal
Project Z - The Zombie Miniatures Game Includes 23 Zombies, 10 Male Survivors, 6 Biker Gangers (inc. 2 motorbikes) plus rules, dice, cards and counters
Zombie Horde Expansion Set Contains 23 Zombies - every one completely individual. Don't miss Hospital Patient zombie, Roadkill zombie and Baywatch zombie!
Male Survivors Expansion Set Contains 10 male survivors and includes a weapons options sprue for even more variety.
Biker Gang Expansion Set Contains parts to make 6 gangers including 2 bikes plus Gang Leader model with pillion rider (and lots of weapon options!)
Female Survivors Expansion Set Contains 10 female survivors plus the weapons options sprue for more variety. Our favourite is Bazooka Big Momma!
Special Operations Team Expansion Set Contains 8 Spec Ops soldiers with a fantastic range of heads, weapons and gear.
Feral Dogs (Metal) FREE!
The Male and Female survivors used to come with 30 Figures each for around $24. Unless those new boxes are $10 each, this is a going to be a huge price hike.
adamsouza wrote: I don't get why anything that wasn't a last minute idea, like the terrain pack, is shipping wave 2.
Abraham is Wave 1, but Maggie, who's in more comics and is from Hershel's Farm, is wave 2.
I was disappointed that Glen is wave 2 as he is in the comics right from the beginning but that appears to be due to the fact that he is getting a bit of a re-sculpt following backer complaints. I wonder if Maggie was going to be unarmed / in a frightened pose and is now being changed which has pushed her from wave 1 to 2.
Still not sure where I stand. I like the WGF (Warlord now, I guess) stuff I already have, but adding more (especially in a bundle that gets me their rules) would get me additional repeats I don't need. Plus nearly zero information about their game.
On the other hand...TWD is asking for a fair bit upfront for a worse PPM cost, a more heroic proportion to the figures (that I don't think we've seen compared to anything to give us a good reference...), and kind of weird barely-seen characters as opposed to fan favorite mainliners. Plus with both add-ons it's like $205 which several projects ago wouldn't phase me but nowadays... meh.
Still can't figure out if I'm gonna get one, both, or neither. Neither company is managing to make themselves 'can't miss' for me.
I don't think we have actually made it to a third of the sculpts Mantic said would be in the Kickstarter yet (was it 210?) but I can't see us getting there now. Hopefully the final addon next week is a must buy and helps bump up the figures (I guess it will contain the Governor so should be pretty popular).
Abraham with Rosita and Eugene
I don't think we will see either Rosita or Eugene in the Kickstarter. Abraham shouldn't technically be in it as he doesn't appear until after Woodbury which is where this kickstarter is stopping but they added in the KS exclusive Abraham for What if purposes.
120 sculpts total and that's inclusive of the sheriffs badge, 5 loot markers, 3 barricades and 2 car designs.
There are 41 sculpts in the main pledge now (52 with the terrain/badge), 7 in the Prison, 3 in stretch goals yet to be achieved so that's 62 just over half so far (note I didn't count the 2 new prison walkers goal as they weren't originally planned).
I finally dropped my early bird, was going to hold out, but the value hasn't gotten there yet and some of the sculpts are sad. Warlords game looks interesting, but is also something I can pick up whenever. I'll save my cash for zombies in space.
After playing Black Plague, I hope/suspect that the next modern Zombicide will include an update to the Black Plague rules, Dashboards, and a Kickstarter exclusive bundle of new style dashboards for all previous Zombicide dashboard cards.
It’s the final week of The Walking Dead: All Out War Kickstarter! Thank you all so much for joining us - we hope you’re as excited as we are!
So far on our journey we’ve left Atlanta for the Greene Farm before moving into the prison. In our last update, we left Michonne, Rick and Glenn on the road to Woodbury.
And it looks like we’ve just arrived…today we're pleased to bring you the Woodbury Expansion!
Welcome to Woodbury
From the walker fighting pits to the Governor torturing Rick, Glenn and Michonne, Woodbury is an iconic location where the storyline culminates in an all-out assault on the prison. And now you too can visit Woodbury with this major new expansion for The Walking Dead: All Out War miniatures game.
Woodbury expands your game in every way. There are new narrative scenarios, meaning you can play through the next part of the story and a Woodbury-themed gaming mat for you to play on.There’s also an expanded selection of card scenery in the shape of some small houses and, if you're looking at re-create the infamous assault on the prison… there’s a tank token too!
If you’ve got the Prison expansion, you’re definitely going to want to make sure you’ve got Woodbury.
On the miniatures front there are 4 Woodbury survivors included in the set with Martinez leading the way.
There’s also Gabe, Bruce and Dr. Stevens, plus character cards, and two Woodbury themed unique Walkers for good measure.
Having introduced new gameplay, new scenery, new walkers and new survivors, that leaves us with the cards to talk about – and they are among the most powerful yet.
The 12 new equipment cards include Assault Rifles, M16’s, smoke grenades and more – an entire arsenal of weapons to kit out your survivors with. There are new supplies to find as well, such as a bandoleer and medical bag. Add in a set of 4 Woodbury-themed event cards and the set is bursting with exciting new content for your games.
The Woodbury Expansion is an optional add-on that you can get by raising your pledge by $40. If you do, as a special thank you, we’ve also included The Mutilated Governor game booster at no extra cost in the expansion from the start. There's no stretch goal for this, so you can get and add it on now!
About: The Mutilated Governor game booster
The Governor is the two-faced sadistic leader of Woodbury and you will get a miniature depicting him after his close encounter with Michonne’s katana.
The game booster also includes Walker Penny – the Governor’s zombified daughter – and Gloria survivor.
Finally, the Mutilated Governor game booster expands the gameplay on offer with 4 equipment cards, including a Megaphone and Michonne’s Katana!
The Mutilated Governor game booster has been unlocked in the Woodbury Expansion optional add-on at no extra cost. It is in addition to the retail-contents of the Woodbury Expansion and will be sold separately.
Just like the Prison, Woodbury will continue to get stretch goals added to make it even better value, just like Something to Fear and March to War will.
Stretch Goals
Adding on Woodbury will get us closer to breaking our next stretch goals. Here’s a recap of what we’re aiming for…
Stretch Goal - $420,000 Rick in Riot Gear and Character Card
Stretch Goal: $430,000 – Greene Family Farm Walkers and Equipment Cards
And then… what would you like to see next? Let us know in the comments!
Never read the comic, so I had no idea that Danny Treejo was the Govenor , if they would of had him running the show I would definitely have changed camps.
Alpharius wrote: How is this one 'only' at $418K entering into the last week?
I really would've thought this property as a KS would be doing much better at this point.
Maybe a Walking Dead game would lend itself better as a boardgame vs. a wargame?
Or...something?
That's still a good chunk of change for what amounts to a 8-12 month pre-order. Not a lot of people in the grand scheme of things willing to plunk down hard-earned coin on something like this, sight-unseen. Factor in that, yeah, it's a wargame rather than a board game and you have even more reduced appeal as there are arguably more people willing to pay for board games than wargames.
Not bad now, it was looking pretty bad earlier but rebounded pretty well. I'm not personally interested as Project Z has my attention now but if someone's a wargamer who like zombies and is a diehard TWD comic fan, there you go...it's a bit specific a group to appeal to for this to have ever been a runaway success.
Meanwhile the card game, Sentinels of the Multiverse is closing on nearly $1million.
I think the wargame aspect hurts it, as does the inability to put in TV characters.
I also think very low value at the start contributed to a slower initial jump than they expected. Especially at a pretty premium initial price. All the spinning the Fans! and Mantic did to convince people it was a Great Deal! was easily seen as false.
The 'terrain' add on with the smaller mats also didn't bring in the funds they hoped for (and for good reason).
The cars, though cool, are not worth buying extras of, who needs 4 each of two sculpts when you can get cheap diecast and other vehicles? (well, Mantic Fans!, but not many other folks).
Some folks in the KS comments talking about throwing in $400+ and it amazes me. There just isn't $400+ worth of product for sale here.
Alpharius wrote: How is this one 'only' at $418K entering into the last week?
I really would've thought this property as a KS would be doing much better at this point.
Maybe a Walking Dead game would lend itself better as a boardgame vs. a wargame?
Or...something?
Still paying for serious missteps at the start. People who would have taken a look at it, shrugged at the lack of solid value for a KS and walked away. If Mantic is lucky, some of those people will look again when the 48-hr warning comes up.
Automatically Appended Next Post: At least someone at Mantic (I'm guessing Matt) was clued in enough to push back the closing date for the WarPath Pledge Manager from it's previous date of right about now when the new KS is winding up until the end of next month.
I mean, I thought Aliens & Predator was a pretty massive license (although from less of a known publisher), and that only did a little over $250K by the very end. License alone will probably mean that your product won't disappear utterly, but it doesn't guarantee a huge amount of Kickstarter income - especially if you can't generate "FOMO", since people will otherwise gladly wait.
On the other hand, Ghostbusters, based on a particularly unloved cartoon version of the property, with only CGI renders, from a publisher with a genuinely terrible track record for quality, still did over $1.5 million. So perhaps Mantic really is missing a trick here!
Honestly, it's doing better than I would have expected. I didn't see any value at all at first, so plenty of people either have a ton of faith in mantic, really like TWD, or are just nuts for zombie miniatures.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bioptic wrote: On the other hand, Ghostbusters, based on a particularly unloved cartoon version of the property, with only CGI renders, from a publisher with a genuinely terrible track record for quality, still did over $1.5 million. So perhaps Mantic really is missing a trick here!
A board game will always get more backers. Board games are self contained, they can usually be learned and played in one sitting, and they require only one player to make the investment of time and money. Buying the Ghostbuster game meant that if you can convince your friends to sit down and play, you could play. Buying TWD means finding somebody else that wants to play, is willing to paint up a force, blah blah blah.
Bioptic wrote: I mean, I thought Aliens & Predator was a pretty massive license (although from less of a known publisher), and that only did a little over $250K by the very end. License alone will probably mean that your product won't disappear utterly, but it doesn't guarantee a huge amount of Kickstarter income - especially if you can't generate "FOMO", since people will otherwise gladly wait.
On the other hand, Ghostbusters, based on a particularly unloved cartoon version of the property, with only CGI renders, from a publisher with a genuinely terrible track record for quality, still did over $1.5 million. So perhaps Mantic really is missing a trick here!
I was surprised by how little AvP made as well, I did think that the franchise had started to die a bit, although arguably those who love it most (who remember it from the original movies, rather than the gak that followed) are 30-35+ and you would have thought the demographic with a fair amount of disposable?
Don't think this one is doing too bad all things considered. I do think that Wargames aren't something you can just piling like you can boardgames (for the most part they are so much more an investment of time - how many games have you liked to collect, but just know you won't have time for?) and I wonder if the 'water level' has risen to the point that the market is just starting to get over-saturated.
I quite like the zombie models. As shown, anyway. I expect that they will survive the transition to mantic's board game plastic about as well as the DS figures did. So bent and warped and broken and mispacked. So not worth the money, hassle or risk since I've not yet had my DS stuff sorted out yet with no end in sight...
I'll also add that, aside from Rick and Carl, Mantic didn't offer any popular characters at the $125 level. The subtitle is "All Out War", yet Nagan's nowhere to be seen. Instead, we get some guys who didn't even last three issues. Who remembers an unimportant character over 76 issues and five years ago??
Mantic hasn't shown that it can deliver product, including game content (Dungeon Saga Advanced Book).
Mantic's also only shown comic book art and renders (not all of which look like their comic book counterparts despite being *based* on their images).
TWD, ironically, doesn't overlap Mantic's existing properties, so there's no crossover with their existing customers.
I also noticed that on TWD forums, when a TWD fan mentions a game, they talk about the video games, which are simpler to play and more similar to tv immersion.
Polonius wrote: Buying TWD means finding somebody else that wants to play, is willing to paint up a force, blah blah blah.
This.
You need to be wargamer, a TWD comic fan, without a grudge against Mantic, with $200+ to burn, willing to preorder, and willing to get the game in 2 shipments months apart.
Bioptic wrote: I mean, I thought Aliens & Predator was a pretty massive license (although from less of a known publisher), and that only did a little over $250K by the very end.
Prodos games did Warzone beforehand and the result was less than pleasing so I stayed well away, maybe others did too.
"that leaves us with the cards to talk about – and they are among the most powerful yet."
Hey look! power creep already just within the KS.
If people don't buy the Woodbury expansion will they get their arse kicked by a cashed up opponent who bought Woodbury and has automatic weapons? yeah sounds like ***FUN***
Polonius wrote: Buying TWD means finding somebody else that wants to play, is willing to paint up a force, blah blah blah.
This.
You need to be wargamer, a TWD comic fan, without a grudge against Mantic, with $200+ to burn, willing to preorder, and willing to get the game in 2 shipments months apart.
If you consider all of this, the TWD kickstarter is a runaway success!
Even I'm not sure if I'll stay in on this one, I am a huge fan of Mantic and TWD (Well, the TV show, anyway), the CCG element of the cards is really off-putting, I don't want that in a wargame, at the very least a .pdf of all the cards would be nice.
It is also getting to the point where there are so many KS exclusives out there that I'm starting to not be too fussed about owning them all.
Also having to accept that I don't have the time in my life to play and paint *everything* Mantic makes, so I'm potentially considering skipping their licensed IPs as standard to focus on their other games, Mars Attacks was dropped after 1-2 years.
At this point I'd be happier to see Mantic consolidate a bit more and focus on their core games. Support for KoW and Warpath as their big two flagship games, and also Deadzone and Dungeon Saga as their smaller fantasy/ sci-fi games. Dreadball 2nd edition a couple of years from now as well.
I've heard that a few places, is it true? That's weird to fly through the license so quickly. Especially since they created MA stuff for deadzone and dreadball...
I get that's it's a pretty self contained game, so they probably didn't see many more sales going forward, but I won't be expecting too much support from Mantic for licensed products.
That all said, I totally agree that Mantic should focus on the most reachable market available to it: disgruntled GW fans. KoW is killing it with former WFB players, and if Warpath is even 80% as good as KoW is, it could become the non-40k. Maybe they don't want that market, and they want to sell their own stuff, but I think they're doing that by focusing the Warpath plastics on Dwarfs and Rats. (Sure, they're non-squats, but the last squat model was released over 20 years ago. That market is cold).
Warpath should have quirky, interesting armies that mantic can make models for, and then an Uncharted Empires book to represent "Planetary Milita," "Elder Pirates," "Feral Marauders," "Formics" etc.
Polonius wrote: Buying TWD means finding somebody else that wants to play, is willing to paint up a force, blah blah blah.
This.
You need to be wargamer, a TWD comic fan, without a grudge against Mantic, with $200+ to burn, willing to preorder, and willing to get the game in 2 shipments months apart.
If you consider all of this, the TWD kickstarter is a runaway success!
True.
Honestly though, I think Mantic expected it to do better, and they could have handled it better.
No Add ons became 3 $40 add ons.
The character's included and their distribution makes me suspect that they purposedly kept all of the most deisreable characters out of the box sets, for additioanl blister pack sales.
The core characters from the comics are not available together, or even all in the first wave.
Rick, Carl, Michone, Andrea, Glenn + 5 randos would have made a better starter set.
We may not get Abraham, because they linked him to number of supporters instead of a dollar value. I would have dropped $10 for a Abraham, Rosita, and Eugene pack.
I love the source material, and the game looks good, but I'm seriously contemplating just buying a $300 3D printer instead of my pledge instead of a $205 pledge that I'm not certain I can anone to play with afterwards.
I think $433K with 6 days to go is pretty awesome for this campaign, personally! It's definitely not for me, and I would love for Mantic to focus on their own properties as others have said (particularly KoW - will there be a campaign for it this year, I just want to throw money at it!).
But the expectations game is weird, as this has already well passed 2 of their last 3 campaigns, and is extremely likely to pass the third, as well. If they are viewing it as a self-contained release, I think raising over half a million dollars (as it would do without even accounting for any final days surge) is fantastic.
There are a lot of things I think Mantic can improve, but I don't think holding them to a valuation guess on a campaign is too valid... particularly when it exceeds their own properties which a number of us here have said we want them to do more with
All that said, have they hinted at other projects for the year? I'm not sure what they can do with KoW since the rules are so tight, other than putting out more models for armies in the Uncharted Empires book, for instance.
Polonius wrote: Buying TWD means finding somebody else that wants to play, is willing to paint up a force, blah blah blah.
This.
You need to be wargamer, a TWD comic fan, without a grudge against Mantic, with $200+ to burn, willing to preorder, and willing to get the game in 2 shipments months apart.
It's not even about grudges for me. They keep going back on their word, delaying things, changing things, charging incredulous amounts for shipping, mucking things up. I've got no genuine ill-will towards them just a lack of confidence in their capabilities. I'm still waiting for Firefight rules. People are talking about they need to do this and that.. How about they actually take care of things they are supposed to be taking care of??? Am I critical of Mantic? Yeah but I'm also not wrong.
EDIT: For clarity.. They're like that guy who's kinda cool to hang with but you don't really want to lend him money because he takes forever to pay you back and it's always with pocket change or packs of CCG cards you don't want.
Seems pretty straightforward to me. This kickstarter is not the great deal that Mantic's KS campaigns used to offer, and the Walking Dead('s cousin's brother's aunt, the comic book) license isn't powerful enough to overcome that.
This is Mantic's most CMON-style campaign yet, but if CMON were running it, production values would be higher, sculpts would be better, there would be a superabundance of popular characters (and probably a slew of KS exclusive variants or somesuch), and it would have already passed a million. Comparing this with what you got with a $150 pledge for Black Plague is a joke. Heck, comparing this with what you got with a $150 Mars Attacks pledge is a joke.
True, Black Plague raking in millions helped make its deal considerably better. And true, Mantic was a different company that offered real value during campaigns when they ran Mars Attacks. But that raises the question: why did Black Plague rake in millions in the first place, where TWD is struggling to top half a million?
Probably because Mantic are doing everything exactly right and we live in the best of all possible worlds.
Being based on the original comic rather than the TV show certainly doesn't help (but it generally still better financially than being based on a completely new zombie universe IP like the warlord one being advertised at the same time). I can't speak to the value but I suspect that the proliferation of zombie minis games over the last few years certainly doesn't help. If folks wanted modern zombie minis (as opposed to medieval dead like in WHFB), that itch has long been scratched and likely the area is a bit sore from all the scratching. While the IP is obviously well known as a comic, it's a johnny come lately to the tabletop gaming scene that is already full.
I'm pretty sure coming late to the game, after All Things Zombie and Zombicide, doesn't help either.
All Things Zombie is like $15 and use whatever minaitures, and Zombicide has set a standard for kickstarters that is probably unatainable my Mantic.
It's funded, but it's not an irresistable deal. I guess it will keep retailers happy.
We all heard about the 120 sculpts. Just put in all 120 sculpts between the base and two addons for $205 already, and they can can spare us all the 8K stretch goals and add real value to the whole damn thing.
I don't want to end up with 80 sculpts and have to wait a freaking year for another kickstarter to get the other 40 main characters.
Vermonter - If Mars Attacks raised a similar amount (which may be the case at the end here) I'm not sure if there's really a problem in what they're doing here in some ways. This property is more valuable (and probably more expensive, hence the deal not being quite as good) but as others have pointed out Alien vs Predator didn't take over the world either - it was $530K when converted over, which I think this one could easily pass.
I'm not saying I'm in love with the offerings here (it's actually not for me at all) but comparing it to the absolute board gaming juggernaut of CMON and in particular Zombicide probably isn't fair.
But Aliens vs. Predator was done by a junior company (Prodos still doesn't have the best name in the business), while Mantic is dropping to a junior company in my mind at least. At the time I didn't trust Prodos to get it done and now I'm glad I didn't go in on their KS. Prodos was still saying that everything still had to be given the green light which was a major turn off for me, Mantic said they had 120 sculpts done (but we are still just seeing renders or really poor sculpts here). Mantic had reasonable kickstarter success with it's prior kickstarters (some complaints about missing packages, but not horrendous until KOW2) and delivered relatively on time. All these things have slid from being positives of Mantics to being why I am not going to back this project. I got shafted with the KOW2 shipment, RIch flat out lied in the comments section to me about my order, I finally got it but only when he went on vacation and someone else handled it. Dungeon Saga and the wrong print file being sent to the printers is just laughable, I didn't bother to pay for a replacement and the models will get used for other things. They had great models for Dungeon Saga and it seamed like a good turning point for Mantic, but then they fired the sculptor and are back to sculpting by committee. Meanwhile how many more projects do they have going in kickstarter right now that are unfulfilled? I was really hoping for more out of this, but then them cancelling Mars Attacks is a pretty good sign that this will be a once and done product.
I still can't believe they are cancelling Mars Attacks. The giant bugs and Tiger Corps alone would have made great fodder for a spin-off board game.
As for TWD, the minis are just terribly uninspiring. Yes, zombies and comics and little value and all that would probably hobble the campaign all on their own, but the minis look like a range Flying Frog Productions would have put out 5 or 6 years ago. They might appeal just fine to boardgamers who see minis as gaming pieces first, but this campaign is aimed at tabletop wargamers, right? Does Mantic find market research...otiose?
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I still can't believe they are cancelling Mars Attacks. The giant bugs and Tiger Corps alone would have made great fodder for a spin-off board game.
Really? I was frankly shocked they did it in the first place. It was a 50 year old short lived very niche card game IP with a brief mainstream movie resurgence 20 years ago that they adapted without updating the visuals or aesthetics to a board game (which for fans of the classic stuff would be a positive and not a negative). I'm surprised that they ever did it (the license fees must have been dirt cheap!) and that it did as well as it did. Anything non-Mars Attack specific that they did they could have released without attaching it to the IP.
My brother in law texted me last night and asked what I thought about the kickstarter. Both he and his wife are big TWD (TV) fans and he has a huge undead army, some of it was my old Vampire counts army, and he is also a big Mantic supporter. I gave him my reasons for dropping my EB pledge and he agreed that the value just isn't there, and that the models looked poor. I hope it does enough for it to pay off and keep the new people they hired on as Matt seems to be a great addition to the team, but I hope the total is low enough to grab their attention and get them back on track. When Mantic first came out they seemed to have a good pulse on the market, now they just seem to be going after the "Easy" cash grabs. I'm not in the know about their financials, but it does leave me to wonder how they are doing with them changing business partners (all the different resin manufacturers) and not having in house sculptors or a solid partner firm that does most of their designs. I'm not excited for Warpath, I have way too many space marines, I wish they could focus on Fantasy and KOW until that is well established.
Not having inhouse sculptors does not seem to be the problem for many if not most companies. The lack of art direction and quality control seems to be the problem at Mantic.
These renders look cheap and the minis are atrocious.
Speaking of AVP and like mantic games if they do not have a strong long therm plan to keep people interested in these games they will fade away regardless of license.
NAVARRO wrote: Not having inhouse sculptors does not seem to be the problem for many if not most companies. The lack of art direction and quality control seems to be the problem at Mantic.
These renders look cheap and the minis are atrocious.
Speaking of AVP and like mantic games if they do not have a strong long therm plan to keep people interested in these games they will fade away regardless of license.
This.
Mantic really needs to move on beyond their current attitude of "good enough" because what they're currently making really isn't.
I really find it odd how companies like GW and Mantic can draw almost cult-like followings of people who will throw money at whatever they produce, regardless of negative experiences and quality issues. That said, I never really understood people waiting in line for days to buy the newest iPhone either..
warboss wrote: I'm surprised that they ever did it (the license fees must have been dirt cheap!) and that it did as well as it did. Anything non-Mars Attack specific that they did they could have released without attaching it to the IP.
If I remember a Ronnie Storytime from a while back, it was the Mars Attack guys that approached Mantic. Basically, they were doing a big relaunch of the comic / card game etc and thought, "hey, doing a board game would be a neat tie in thing to do." They then basically invited pitches, I think and Mantic won.
So, with that sort of context behind it, I think Mars Attacks went fine. I mean, it's a fine product, not my kinda thing (I am a bit of a fan of my giant stompy robot from the crazy box, myself) but yeah, I don't think any other company (even CoolMiniOrNot) would have done anything drastically different with the situation.
RiTides wrote: I'm not saying I'm in love with the offerings here (it's actually not for me at all) but comparing it to the absolute board gaming juggernaut of CMON and in particular Zombicide probably isn't fair.
If Mantic didn't want to be compared with Zombicide, they should have stayed out of Zombicide's turf. Whether they like it or not, their zombie survival miniatures game is going to be compared to other zombie survival miniatures games on the market. And when the competition has such an obvious advantage as being able to buy it and at least one of its expansions right now while All Out War is a preorder six months out, you need to make sure you have advantages in other areas that make up for it.
I don't think it's awful, I'm just kinda zombied out. If this came around before Zombicide, I would have been all over it. And I may still get a gang, after trying my friend's copy. But picking it up now? Nah, it's funded, which I'm happy about because I only want success for Mantic. It's just not what I'm looking for as a game, for the time being.
Now if Mantic wants to do that Project Pandora rework that got spitballed around during the Warpath KS rather than zombies, they may be able to pry some monies out of me again...
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Now if Mantic wants to do that Project Pandora rework that got spitballed around during the Warpath KS rather than zombies, they may be able to pry some monies out of me again...
That got spitballed around in Deadzone and Dungeon Saga too, so don't hold your breath...
Compel wrote: Geek And Sundry wrote an article on The Walking Dead tabletop game tonight, which should get a little more interest.
Yep! Very interested!
Spoiler:
DOCTOR WHO MINIATURES GAME – WARLORD GAMES
Ready to explore time and space on the tabletop? Well that time is almost here! Warlord Games recently announced they have license to make the Doctor Who Miniatures Game. Warlord Games’ license will allow them to explore the entirety of the show–including all the Doctors, as well as their friends and foes.
Meanwhile, Mantic keeps hitting 'em out of the ballpark.
warboss wrote: I'm surprised that they ever did it (the license fees must have been dirt cheap!) and that it did as well as it did. Anything non-Mars Attack specific that they did they could have released without attaching it to the IP.
If I remember a Ronnie Storytime from a while back, it was the Mars Attack guys that approached Mantic. Basically, they were doing a big relaunch of the comic / card game etc and thought, "hey, doing a board game would be a neat tie in thing to do." They then basically invited pitches, I think and Mantic won.
So, with that sort of context behind it, I think Mars Attacks went fine. I mean, it's a fine product, not my kinda thing (I am a bit of a fan of my giant stompy robot from the crazy box, myself) but yeah, I don't think any other company (even CoolMiniOrNot) would have done anything drastically different with the situation.
Mars Attacks was great, rules are very fun and very bloody, it as pretty much everything that Deadzone should have been from the start.
Also, Mantic were practically given the license (presumably the renewal fees were more, hence why it goes OOP this year), whereas I get the feeling TWD will be taking at least 20% royalties.
Still wavering on this one, will have to see where it ends, although the sculpts really aren't up to much for $3 each at the time of writing. 48 minis and a rough cost of $150 once shipping is factored in. Also, at current exchange rates, the base pledge of $125 is £90(!) before shipping.
$40 for a booster with 10 minis in it is also a big nope, not looking forward to seeing what the retail price on that will be. I can buy a Dungeon Saga expansion for the same price with 27 minis, and even more in the way of cardstock.
The scenery booster is at least pretty good for $40 now, with 2 mats and the cars in there. The barricades, loot counters and cars will be useful long after the IP has expired.
This is the one KS where I'd really like a rules/counters only pledge, and it's the one KS that doesn't have it due to everything being tied to the collectible equipment cards. I am wondering if requiring rules to be tied to purchases of the official minis was a requirement for the license,
I am almost positive that the BGG crowd will put together an "character/equipment compendium" listing all of the cards and stats, if only because if they are even more sensitive to missing out on content in any way, shape or form!
Giving cards with the models is much more likely to shift copies of those models at a higher pricepoint, and doesn't lock Mantic into either writing a load of characters up front that may never get miniatures, so I can definitely see why it's attractive to them. I just think that in most other cases where I've seen this model (mostly FFG stuff - Tannhauser, IA, X-Wing, Armada) you get a lot more non-model stuff in the box - chits, sliders, thick cardstock character boards, scenarios.
The simplicity of the Walking Dead stuff here might ultimately work against it, because it doesn't actually need a pile of supplementary gubbins for each mini-expansion, but therefore feels light on content.
The other thing that's a bit strange when it comes to this "X-Wing" model is that there is no reason to ever buy more than one copy of each survivor, other than for the cards. Presumably, Rick won't come with four versions of himself, three of which are 'cheaper' but not actually Rick..
I wouldn't have a problem with that, actually! Certainly was genius on the part of FFG, both utilising the license but placing no cap on purchasing.
Equally, I think Mantic would be *delighted* if you bought only one copy of each expansion. I really think the cards are only in there to increase the perceived value of what are essentially 4-miniature blister packs, not so that people buy 5 copies of each just to outfit everyone with Katanas to remain competitive in a hypothetical tournament scene.
Another thing that isn't helping perception of value is all of the placeholder art. If Mantic could sell the idea of "look at all of these beautiful card components/detailed mats" it would make the package look at least better value, if not *good* value by the standards of previous Kickstarters. Keeping everything as "you'll get generic booklets/tokens/markers/sheets" makes you completely dismiss them as having *any* value.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Now if Mantic wants to do that Project Pandora rework that got spitballed around during the Warpath KS rather than zombies, they may be able to pry some monies out of me again...
That got spitballed around in Deadzone and Dungeon Saga too, so don't hold your breath...
Sounds like Firefight which has also apparently been in spitball mode for ages..
I think I will end up staying in for this one (have pledged for original Deadzone and Mars Attacks previously but pulled out due to spiralling cost of getting everything). Will leave my pledge at $115 but grab the proper expansions in the pledge manager (and the scenery expansion if they add a second one for the remaining 3 deluxe mats).
Staying in as i'm a fan of the comics and feel that the sculpts just about do the comic designs justice (with a few exceptions although the unpainted Rick looks a lot more like the comic version than the painted sample they have). Also think it's the first wargame I can get my other half to play as she is a big fan of the show.
Due to the number of unique sculpts it has now been pushed over to a good value in my eyes and hopefully they can fill in a few of the more obvious gaps before the campaign ends next week.
They only added that pledge level due to demand in the comments section and said if they sold out they would add more (not sure why they bothered to make limited in first place though).
Yep, I'm aware that they added that level due to the comments and feedback. I just find the fact that it's limited and the limited numbers to be quite telling in regard to their expectations for this KS campaign - and the actual takers to be just as telling in terms of actual response from the KSing public.
I wonder if there's any chance of them updating the shipping estimates before the campaign closes based on everything unlocked to date? Because after seeing what happened for WarPath....
Azazelx wrote: I wonder if there's any chance of them updating the shipping estimates before the campaign closes based on everything unlocked to date? Because after seeing what happened for WarPath....
It's more about the choice to be short-sighted (a more accurate shipping estimate could potentially cost them backers and $$ in this campaign) versus being long-sighted (a nasty shipping surprise won't help them or their rep for the next campaign - remember this was supposed to be a multi-million dollar, one pledge level, no-add-ons campaign - but with lots of people still feeling burned by KoWII & DS feth ups, WP shipping costs...
Azazelx wrote: It's more about the choice to be short-sighted (a more accurate shipping estimate could potentially cost them backers and $$ in this campaign) versus being long-sighted (a nasty shipping surprise won't help them or their rep for the next campaign - remember this was supposed to be a multi-million dollar, one pledge level, no-add-ons campaign - but with lots of people still feeling burned by KoWII & DS fuckups, WP shipping costs...
What happened with warpath shipping? Also, I haven't followed this one closely since the big reveail of TWD; do you have a link to where that said that one pledge level no add on part? I'm curious about that and when it changed.
the one pledge level and no add ons info was from a whole bunch of interviews/podcasts and leaks from Ronnie
Warpath shipping was the perennial company provides estimates that prove to be far too low (but only after the campaign closed). Some regions like AUS got clobbered particularly badly
I'm kind of glad the Vocal Minority is currently howling for rubber mats. When you look at the much less than impressive 'bump' the first rubber mat add on got them, it seems pretty silly to waste resources producing them when they could make more game content, but....
No way I'll pledge for them, especially not having any idea what they even look like, and incur the shipping costs. However, when I can get them for $20 each shipped later from a retailer I may pick some up depending on the designs.
Craig is one of the gang who try to rape Carl in issue 57.
The Governor is already in the Woodbury addon in his mutilated form. The regular Governor will not be appearing in the campaign (which is a surprise as he is already sculpted but he may be one of the retail only packs to help support retails).
Negan wont be appearing as this campaign is only covering up to the end of the Woodbury / Prison storyline (I know that the gang from the starter and Craig appear later in the comics but looks like they are only here to help bulk out the evil gang options which is quite light at the moment).
Craig is one of the gang who try to rape Carl in issue 57.
The Governor is already in the Woodbury addon in his mutilated form. The regular Governor will not be appearing in the campaign (which is a surprise as he is already sculpted but he may be one of the retail only packs to help support retails).
Negan wont be appearing as this campaign is only covering up to the end of the Woodbury / Prison storyline (I know that the gang from the starter and Craig appear later in the comics but looks like they are only here to help bulk out the evil gang options which is quite light at the moment).
Didnt realise they had names. Are they canon or did Mantic invent them?
I think I saw that part in the TV show, though they looked entirely different. Are they the same ones that Daryl traveled with for a few days?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Newest update says soon they'll reintroduce the 'get yourself as a walker' pledge in limited quantity of 3 for a reduced price of 1750 ( it was 5000 before? I dint remmeber, pretty sure it was higher). Also 3x available painted pledges for the same $1750. Something to fear + main two expansions painted to tabletop standard. Dunno how that compares to proper painting services. $1500 to paint 70something minis to tabletop standard?
Meh slmaybe someone will snap those all up and they'll get a boost.
GrimDork wrote: I think I saw that part in the TV show, though they looked entirely different. Are they the same ones that Daryl traveled with force few days?
Yes, though the TV show differs quite a lot. In the comics there was no characterization, we didn't really learn anything about them, not even their names, as there was no comic book counterpart to Daryl joining them and traveling with them temporarily. Daryl has no counterpart in the comics.
The have a walker designed like you pledge was $7500. Guess they are getting 1/4 of the total they thought they would so now they'll ask for 1/4 of what they wanted .
Mantic wrote: Competitive gaming – we are intending to have a tournament scene for this game – I think the small size of the forces and the way that they are collected make it perfectly suited. We’ve designed an Organized Play kit to be sent out to all the stores, with exclusive prizes and cool stuff, and we will host events everywhere that we can :-).
adamsouza wrote: Mantic has proven their ability to crank out playable games.
Really?
I think it was intended as a compliment. As I read it, even Mantic's weakest offerings are solid, enjoyable experiences.
And to be fair, every company has projects that are better and worse representatives of what they do. Hell, I worked on Deadzone originally and acknowledge its faults, whereas games like Kings of War, and Dreadball are STELLAR.
Okay then, I fully take back everything I said about the cards not mattering because tournament play wouldn't be the focus! It does even more strongly link their strategy to mimicking FFG games though, and I probably would in that position, considering the success they have enjoyed.
I've noticed that almost 1/3rd of backers are from UK - I wonder if the extremely weak pound vs. the dollar is causing people to have second thoughts in the runup to the end? I'm certainly wondering if I shouldn't just wait for the add-ons, since either the pound will be in a better state come pledge manager time, or Britain's economy will have imploded and Mantic won't be making the game!
Bioptic wrote: Okay then, I fully take back everything I said about the cards not mattering because tournament play wouldn't be the focus! It does even more strongly link their strategy to mimicking FFG games though, and I probably would in that position, considering the success they have enjoyed.
I've noticed that almost 1/3rd of backers are from UK - I wonder if the extremely weak pound vs. the dollar is causing people to have second thoughts in the runup to the end? I'm certainly wondering if I shouldn't just wait for the add-ons, since either the pound will be in a better state come pledge manager time, or Britain's economy will have imploded and Mantic won't be making the game!
I'm not from England, so forgive the neive question, but do they get The Walking Dead TV show? Is it as big over there as over here? Are the Comics available there more easily so that causes the focus of this being a comic based license to be more appealing? Or is it just that we Americans have access to more discounters after a game hits the market that we will wait to see how it all pans out and get it cheaper later.
Bioptic wrote: Okay then, I fully take back everything I said about the cards not mattering because tournament play wouldn't be the focus! It does even more strongly link their strategy to mimicking FFG games though, and I probably would in that position, considering the success they have enjoyed.
I've noticed that almost 1/3rd of backers are from UK - I wonder if the extremely weak pound vs. the dollar is causing people to have second thoughts in the runup to the end? I'm certainly wondering if I shouldn't just wait for the add-ons, since either the pound will be in a better state come pledge manager time, or Britain's economy will have imploded and Mantic won't be making the game!
I'm not from England, so forgive the neive question, but do they get The Walking Dead TV show? Is it as big over there as over here? Are the Comics available there more easily so that causes the focus of this being a comic based license to be more appealing? Or is it just that we Americans have access to more discounters after a game hits the market that we will wait to see how it all pans out and get it cheaper later.
adamsouza wrote: Mantic has proven their ability to crank out playable games.
Really?
I think it was intended as a compliment. As I read it, even Mantic's weakest offerings are solid, enjoyable experiences.
And to be fair, every company has projects that are better and worse representatives of what they do. Hell, I worked on Deadzone originally and acknowledge its faults, whereas games like Kings of War, and Dreadball are STELLAR.
Bioptic wrote: Okay then, I fully take back everything I said about the cards not mattering because tournament play wouldn't be the focus! It does even more strongly link their strategy to mimicking FFG games though, and I probably would in that position, considering the success they have enjoyed.
I've noticed that almost 1/3rd of backers are from UK - I wonder if the extremely weak pound vs. the dollar is causing people to have second thoughts in the runup to the end? I'm certainly wondering if I shouldn't just wait for the add-ons, since either the pound will be in a better state come pledge manager time, or Britain's economy will have imploded and Mantic won't be making the game!
I'm not from England, so forgive the neive question, but do they get The Walking Dead TV show? Is it as big over there as over here? Are the Comics available there more easily so that causes the focus of this being a comic based license to be more appealing? Or is it just that we Americans have access to more discounters after a game hits the market that we will wait to see how it all pans out and get it cheaper later.
We definitely get the TV series and the comics. The comics are certainly a big deal within what is still a pretty niche area - you could go your entire life without seeing a single issue, but the trade paperbacks/big collections are very much in evidence if you walk into any comic shop/Forbidden Planet. The TV series presumably has a decent following over here, but is nothing like as dominant as it is in the US. If you mentioned the name to anyone relatively familiar with zombie fiction, they'd probably recognise it.
I'm sure Mantic is well aware that the TV series is much more popular than the comics, but I'm also sure that the license is orders of magnitude cheaper! That's presumably why Telltale, really quite a small company at the time, was able to do a licensed game using the style and plot of the comic. Additionally, I think that basing miniatures on drawn art (whatever your opinion of Mantic's efforts here) is more likely to be successful than real-life actors. To be honest, I find games that use actual photos as components to look rather cheap and offputting, even the excellent BSG boardgame!
Americans definitely do have greater access to retail discounters, and the base price of stuff made in the US tends to be higher (in some cases being a 1:1 £:$ ratio) since even outside of regional pricing everything attracts a 20% government tax incorporated into the listed price. So a nominally $100 CMON game will have a base price of £80 here, for example. Distribution of American boardgames in the UK (or stuff like Reaper models) is poor/pricey/non-existant, so this provides a stronger motivator to get things during a Kickstarter. That said, we do still get some erratic discounts - I think SDE: Forgotten King was £20 on Amazon recently!
Theophony wrote: I'm not from England, so forgive the neive question, but do they get The Walking Dead TV show? Is it as big over there as over here? Are the Comics available there more easily so that causes the focus of this being a comic based license to be more appealing? Or is it just that we Americans have access to more discounters after a game hits the market that we will wait to see how it all pans out and get it cheaper later.
Yup the show is popular over here, but it's not as big as in the US.
The UK comic book industry is tiny, way way smaller than the US's. Comic book shops are few and far between (way less prevalent than wargaming shops even) and basically 1 book chain has a comic book section. I didn't even know Walking dead was a comic until this kickstarter.
adamsouza wrote: Mantic has proven their ability to crank out playable games.
Really?
I think it was intended as a compliment. As I read it, even Mantic's weakest offerings are solid, enjoyable experiences.
And to be fair, every company has projects that are better and worse representatives of what they do. Hell, I worked on Deadzone originally and acknowledge its faults, whereas games like Kings of War, and Dreadball are STELLAR.
No I got that, I just don't think it's true. KoW, DKH and Mars Attacks yes, everything else has been pretty mediocre.
Bioptic wrote: Okay then, I fully take back everything I said about the cards not mattering because tournament play wouldn't be the focus! It does even more strongly link their strategy to mimicking FFG games though, and I probably would in that position, considering the success they have enjoyed.
I've noticed that almost 1/3rd of backers are from UK - I wonder if the extremely weak pound vs. the dollar is causing people to have second thoughts in the runup to the end? I'm certainly wondering if I shouldn't just wait for the add-ons, since either the pound will be in a better state come pledge manager time, or Britain's economy will have imploded and Mantic won't be making the game!
I'm not from England, so forgive the neive question, but do they get The Walking Dead TV show? Is it as big over there as over here? Are the Comics available there more easily so that causes the focus of this being a comic based license to be more appealing? Or is it just that we Americans have access to more discounters after a game hits the market that we will wait to see how it all pans out and get it cheaper later.
Yeah, the base pledge is £90 + shipping currently.
That's a lot of money for 50 minis, plus some paper mats and card templates.
Even £54 for the base $75 pledge seems excessive considering the core box is supposed to be £30 or so at retail.
I'd go in for $1, but that isn't an option on this one either.
adamsouza wrote: Mantic has proven their ability to crank out playable games.
League play is exactly what they need to keep retailers happy and sales up. It's a good move.
It would be better if they did less cranking, and did more game development. For Dungeon Saga, the base game was fine, but the advanced rules were not. It's not in Mantic's best interests to be known as a game company where "some" of the games are good. With a KS model, as soon as you have a mixed track record, backers start to take less interest in spending $150+ on one of your games, sight unseen. Likewise, if you argue a separation gameplay from game component quality, this isn't valid for a KS model, where you're stuck with both from the same company. Mantic needs to slow down. If they have too many good game rules, maybe they can partner with other companies, much like the CMON model.
Can TWD sustain league play?? Mantic can only support league play while they have the TWD license, and we've seen them drop support for Mars Attacks. Do we have any info about what percentage of game stores in the UK and US have organized play? All I see on their site are KoW and Dreadball: http://www.manticgames.com/organised-play.html (I wouldn't mind attending a Dungeon Saga game demo, though!)
Thier ability to create games and ship them efficiently are two different matters.
Mantic has proven their ability to crank out playable games.
League play is exactly what they need to keep retailers happy and sales up. It's a good move.
Hopefully this one is better play-tested than previous ones, and that Mr.Latham is more amenable to fixing things that are messed up than Alessio and (especially) Jake.
No I got that, I just don't think it's true. KoW, DKH and Mars Attacks yes, everything else has been pretty mediocre.
The core game, yes. The Advanturer's companion was a huge disappointment (not even counting the typos and page numbers thing) as Jake was clearly phoning it in the further into the additional rules he got. Really felt that he wanted to write HeroQuest 2.0 and nothing more than that.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Honestly, with Mr. Latham needing to be convinced building interiors needed rules at all, by fans... I don't know how confident I am in his instincts.
Hm, that's comforting. To be fair at least, when have we ever seen survivors of a Zombipocalypse barricade themselves inside a building?
about to break loose as Ronnie Zombie is unlocked, glad I have a pledge 
. I'm still trying to figure out how though as they said at 2250 backers, unless they are counting how many people have backed and not deducting the ones that have backed out they are closer to 2150. Unless they count the retailer packs as 10.
