Ronnie here. Happy New Year – I hope 2015 was a good one and that 2016 is even better.
We’ve been building up to this for some time, and I’d like to proudly announce that Mantic will be making ‘The Walking Dead Miniatures Game’, titled ‘All OUT WAR’, under license from Skybound Entertainment.
The Walking Dead: All Out War will be set in the engaging and immersive post-apocalyptic world of The Walking Dead comic series. Having the comic license gives us far more freedom to reproduce from all the rich and evocative artwork, and over 149 issues of the comics. This offered the biggest choice of factions and characters – in fact the widest scope possible to explore the setting and heroes. Finally the comic license also gives us direct access to the Skybound team, and insight into the world by the people who actually created it! We will bring the pages to life with fantastic models that will cry out to be painted, slick game play and it’ll all be part of an awesomely fun gaming experience.
Why The Walking Dead?
When I set up Mantic I had a very clear vision for what I wanted the company to stand for and to be about. I have enjoyed collecting, painting and gaming with miniatures almost all my life. Certainly from a very early age I always had plastic soldiers of one kind or another very close at hand. As I got older that developed into my grown-up hobby and one that I have managed to work in all my adult life (and I hope I am lucky enough that continues until retirement – although I am not sure my wife would agree!).
Mantic was set up to share that love of gaming with miniatures with as large an audience as possible. I felt the need to create Mantic because the companies in the market were actually going the other way – they were making gaming more expensive, more complicated and more restrictive. I wanted to share my wonderful hobby with as many people as possible. I knew it would take years to build up the company to the point where it would have a good-sized gamer base and the infrastructure to cope with the growth (and plateaus). Mantic has been helped by huge support from the community through its short life – both for the business generally and for all our Kickstarter campaigns. We now have a truly global wargame with Kings of War and the rapidly evolving and very exciting sci-fi Warpath Universe. In the coming years we will continually add to, and develop, both of these.
However, I believe to really open up gaming to new markets you have to start with an IP people know and love – and to do it in a big way it has to be a truly massive, well known license. It has to be a property that people love, feel deeply about and want to get more involved with. Then you have to make the game world class, simple, fun and exciting, with tactics and army building. The miniatures have to be astounding so you want to get on and paint them and bring the world to life. And let’s be honest, full armies take a long time to collect and get painted – so something with 10 or so models is a great place to start, especially if it scales up a little along the way .
When I really started digging in to this subject and actually talking to license holders talking there was one property that struck me as perfect. It covered all the points above – and then some. It has a global following and has leaders with character; interesting factions and a world we can relate to. Once I had gone and met them I was even more certain.
In the next four weeks we’ll let you see the game design, the miniatures and the vision for the system – and look out on the Mantic blog this week for all the inside news – including my visit to the Skybound studio. I hope to see you there!
I'm interested. Especially since it sounds like a 'skirmish combat' type of game and not as much like zombicide and what not.
Are there really that many factions in the walking dead comic universe? Maybe I'm missing out.
I like what I've seen of the zombies so far. They look nice and worn down, zombie walk, and so far there are two female zombies on display and neither seems to be trying remotely hard to be sexy. No exposed thongs (zombicide), giant breasts, awkward poses (some of the WGF female zombies try fairly hard to be sexy yet undead at the same time), or so on. I mean the one does have a skirt but.. y'know people do wear those. So that's cool. They all seem to be dressed in modern normal clothes and the poses look very zombie. Not necessarily better or worse than what exists nowadays, but more to my liking.
So the post talks about tactics and army building, and starting with 10 models on a side. So... this is going to be a skirmish combat game set in modern times, and the zombies are going to be more along the lines of NPCs/AI? That... could be neat.
This really can only be a good thing.
If the rules are good, hey win!
If the rules are bad, there's other modern zombie games to use.
If the terrain is cheap yay! If it's expensive, there's railroad stuff and diecast cars from the drugstore for $5 each
If the models are good and cheap, awesome, if not.. WGF is!
So basically, unless this is a complete failure, it's going to have some sort of positive outcome. Those models already look pretty nice.. so at this point it's all good.
I do hope they have some nice PA terrain that isn't repurposed MA stuff. I had to skip the BSPA terrain KS and they have not been good at backfilling old sets so far.
Minis look a'ight, but I don't really think i'd play it. just won't have the time. Might still be interested if there's good terrain.. some kind of more modern looking battlezone style kits would be great.
GrimDork wrote: I'm interested. Especially since it sounds like a 'skirmish combat' type of game and not as much like zombicide and what not.
....
So the post talks about tactics and army building, and starting with 10 models on a side. So... this is going to be a skirmish combat game set in modern times, and the zombies are going to be more along the lines of NPCs/AI? That... could be neat.
Very accurate
bubber wrote: Hope they do a few good (& cheap) cars as well!
Cars were a key part of the scenario we played so I'd say extremely likely.
Well Mantic Zombies are .....okay, we will have to see how the survivors look, but I think I'll stick with my zombicide stuff. I might go in for $1 if you get the rules free and then just use zombicide figures to play.
Here I am thinking I have a collection I can say "That is enough" , I've got several rule sets from the dark ages up to the 1940's. I should be happy with it and I am, then this announcement... as soon as I think I'm out I get dragged back in again.
godswildcard wrote:It would be lovely if they made some Zombicide stand-in models. The walked I've seen so far look great! Now I need some fatties and abominations....
Making not-Zombicide figures would be hilarious, in a meta kind of way
I think I can sit this out and maybe get it at retail if it turns out to be awesome, and focus my KS energy this year on Red Box Games like the plan was.
For any of you guys familiar with the walking dead comics... what are we talking about in terms of factions here? I've seen a lot of the show but I'm a season or two behind, but I'm assuming there's more going on in the comics too? I haven't seen anything like fallout's brotherhood, enclave, or raiders but again no comic experience. So I'm assuming there will be generic groups like survivors, bandits, maybe army... or specific groups like Rick and company, the Governor and thugs, and so on.
If someone with more knowledge could perhaps illuminate me on this... just really curious as to which factions are going to be skirmishing against the backdrop of zombehs.
I think I can sit this out and maybe get it at retail if it turns out to be awesome, and focus my KS energy this year on Red Box Games like the plan was.
I think I can sit this out and maybe get it at retail if it turns out to be awesome, and focus my KS energy this year on Red Box Games like the plan was.
So the post talks about tactics and army building, and starting with 10 models on a side. So... this is going to be a skirmish combat game set in modern times, and the zombies are going to be more along the lines of NPCs/AI? That... could be neat.
Erm... didn't the Deadzone: Contagion supplement bring in a PvP skirmish game with zombie NPCs? That is until they removed all those good ideas from the latest version of Deadzone we all paid to "improve".
I'll look forward to The Walking Dead game when I find out Mantic haven't gone all CMON with hundreds of expensive and exclusive main characters (in that Zombiecide style of money making).
I think I can sit this out and maybe get it at retail if it turns out to be awesome, and focus my KS energy this year on Red Box Games like the plan was.
Why thank god its not fallout? Because you dislike fallout? or because you like it a lot.
Da Boss wrote: I love fallout and would spend way too much money on a Fallout based minis game! It's safer this way. Some things really are too good to be true
Edit to clarify: There was hopeful speculation that the "new IP" Mantic got a hold of would be Fallout when this was first rumored.
Definitely don't pay attention to World's End Publishing's "This is Not a Test" KS that's coming along this month then
Yeah, after all the speculation about Fallout or Mad Max, this is... underwhelming.
A zombies game. Ok. It's not like there are lots of them out there or anything. And TWD ones are... just regular zombies. Neither the comic nor the TV series treat them as anything other than terrain hazards, as far as I know... the real stuff is the human interaction, after all.
OTOH, I won't overspend on this like I probably would have, so I guess I have that to thank them for ^_^
We use modified Infinity rules in our Club to play games with Zombie NPC's (Left4Infinity, we like the Mantic Zombies and had to make a game to use a lot of them) so lets see if this game will bring something new
I already have 30 Mantic Sci-Fi zombies and 80 Mantic Fantasy Zombies (which are dressed in just rags and tatters, so are really very setting neutral.)
I would have spent far too much on a Fallout minis KS, and would have gone in for any raider types from a Mad Max minis KS. But as I said in the sci-fi rumors thread, unless this KS has some great deals on post-apoc terrain better than the Mars Attacks battlezones (with those stupid solid plastic windows), I'm going to pass.
Just as well, I'm getting overloaded with Mantic KS minis as it is, and DZ:I and Warpath aren't even in yet.
Da Boss wrote: I love fallout and would spend way too much money on a Fallout based minis game! It's safer this way. Some things really are too good to be true
Edit to clarify: There was hopeful speculation that the "new IP" Mantic got a hold of would be Fallout when this was first rumored.
Definitely don't pay attention to World's End Publishing's "This is Not a Test" KS that's coming along this month then
Noooo! "This is Not a Test" is awesome!
Achem. Yeah, this will probably be a success for Mantic but I think the tabletop gaming space is pretty zombie'd out. And it'll have to be pretty good to top Zombicide, surely?
While I don't play Zombicide any more, the first KS did provide me with enough 28mm scale zombies to set me up for life.
Those zombies have seen more use in custom 40k scenarios than during the actual boardgame.
IMHO, Mantic will have to bring something special to the table to make this jump out, as others have already noted, we're currently up to our tits in various zombie games and kits.
I couldn't see Mantic being savvy enough to get the Fallout license, and fortunately (for my wallet), they didn't. I guess Brother Vinni will continue to poach the license (very nicely, I might add) until someone else nails it down. At the moment, if anyone were going to do it, I'd guess prodos, but that's just empty Nostradamusizing. Sure, that's a real word. No, don't google it - wait - ah, crap. It's too hard to fool people these days.
I did follow the Walking Dead comic series for awhile, but it bored me (art-wise I preferred the look established by Adlard after Moore left), and I have enough zombies from Mantic as it is. I don't like the sculpts shown so far, though.
I hope the KS goes well for those of you going along for the ride.
On the positive side - Mantic's Mars Attacks may have been a retail disaster, but it was actually a good game with a good engine. Fun to play, and all that. I could imagine the Walking Dead adapting it and doing pretty well rules-wise.
Prodos at this point may already be killing their selves with both Alien versus Predator debacle and their WIP stab at a StarCraft game, so no worries there.
It will be interesting to see if any of this stuff by Mantic will tie in with the upcoming PC game done by Overkill Studios of the Payday fame.
Mantic restic Rabble Kickstarter Rabble Boo Hiss Rabble ok got that out of the way.
Now to something useful, in the comics All out War was the 10th anniversary story arc. There were 4 factions involved, and some people think the tv show will be hitting this arc this year maybe.
Honestly it was 3 years ago just after I stopped reading the comics so I cannot get to specific but you had Rick's survivors and then 3 other factions.
BrookM wrote: Prodos at this point may already be killing their selves with both Alien versus Predator debacle and their WIP stab at a StarCraft game, so no worries there.
It will be interesting to see if any of this stuff by Mantic will tie in with the upcoming PC game done by Overkill Studios of the Payday fame.
I know exactly what you mean about the AVP debacle, having suffered through it. It was ridiculous.
Then I got my first shipment of stuff, though. I don't think anyone else could have done the models as well as Prodos has. I wouldn't back another KS by Prodos, but I'd buy their stuff retail.
That said, I'm not holding out for any Prodos Fallout minis.
Was Payday any good, btw? Reviews seem very mixed.
BrookM wrote: Prodos at this point may already be killing their selves with both Alien versus Predator debacle and their WIP stab at a StarCraft game, so no worries there.
It will be interesting to see if any of this stuff by Mantic will tie in with the upcoming PC game done by Overkill Studios of the Payday fame.
I know exactly what you mean about the AVP debacle, having suffered through it. It was ridiculous.
Then I got my first shipment of stuff, though. I don't think anyone else could have done the models as well as Prodos has. I wouldn't back another KS by Prodos, but I'd buy their stuff retail.
That said, I'm not holding out for any Prodos Fallout minis.
Was Payday any good, btw? Reviews seem very mixed.
Ugh, last thing I want is something I hold dear to be tainted by the likes of Prodos. I'd much rather give my money to Brother Vinni, who has an excellent range of not-Fallout miniatures and doesn't rip you off in the process.
Payday 2 has a lot of DLC and some other questionable additions sadly, but it is in my opinion still a great coop game. There are some around here who still throw toddler tantrums about it, but just put those witches on ignore.
Their upcoming Walking Dead game will also be a four player coop game.
As a big fan of the show and comic have to say I'm extremely excited about this.
As a fan of the 'wargaming' industry, I want it to persist. Picking up a license from such a big show should certainly help that, might help bring in more players into the hobby fold.
I'd definitely be interested to see how the rules function before I go all in however.
Zombiecide does a very good 'arcade' type experience, fast and fun. Is there room for something a bit more RPG-y, which follows the tone of the comic? Scavenge, survive, and the biggest threats to the other survivors not being the zombies but often the other living? Definitely interesting to see what route Mantic take with things rule wise.
Confirmed now that we're allowed to gush. Here's my braindump.
It's a skirmish game, not board game. Inches not squares.
Players each control a band of survivors fighting against each other. You build your gang like other skirmish games and campaign, injury & advancement rules are a core aspect. There are rules for "special characters" or whatever they are called (I played with Rick & Carl) but I've no idea how you'll go about hiring them in the actual game as opposed to generics. The scenario we tested was a small gang on gang fight over supplies placed randomly all over the board. Fairly simple but what I gathered to be a fairly typical pick up game.
Zombies are part of the scenery and AI controlled. They move towards loud noises so if you have a gun then you need to choose the right time to use it. Ammo is limited and you struggle to get more than a few shots off before needing to find looted ammo on the board (or if you purchased spare ammo when building your band). Most models can handle getting attacked by 1 zombie. 2 start to be a problem and 3+ means you're going down.
One of the fun-time tactics was running behind a stronger opponent, firing a gun randomly which draws the zombies straight at your opponents model. Chomp chomp. Problem is that your opponent shortly gets up as a walker.
The most Zombicide reminiscent rule is an escalation tracker, otherwise the guidelines is to stay away from how Zombicide does things. Rather than being based on how many zombies you kill, it's based on noise. Each time you fire a gun or do something noisy (like running or shouting) the escalation tracker goes up and the stronger and more numerous the zombies get. You can forgo actions to "shush" the escalation and drop it down so you have some great matchups where one players has a gang based on stealth and the other armed with a gakload of guns. The guns blazing player goes in making as much of a racket as possible while the other player tries to de-escalate it. At the end of each turn you draw a card to see how many zombies "activate" and who activates them (you, your opponent or a bit of basic "amble towards the nearest car" AI). The higher the tracker, the more zombies activate, in addition to those which are automatically triggered by noise.
Mechanics were very fun and intuitive. It took a while to get used to personally because I'm just used to flat D6 x+ rolls, but the dice rolls are based on coloured D6 with different symbols on them. Like with X-Wing but with several different variations of dice. Your gun might give you one red and one blue dice to shoot with, both with different chances of rolling what you require. We all had the mechanics down within a turn but then had to learn how to manage the escalation tracker.
The pre-production models I saw were fantastic. Right up with the best of Dungeon Saga.
Yes it's a zombie game, yes zombies have been done to death and all the rest of it. I'm not a huge Walking Dead fan either - before playing this I'd stopped watching the series towards the end of season 3. However, I fething LOVED it. I had an absolute blast playing it and it felt more like a Necromunda/Gorkamorka/Probably other games like Frostgrave that I've still not played than anything else. It was a really fun game (cue derail of "but how do you DEFINE fun man...). Everyone at the playtesting loved it and said that regardless of the license/setting, the game was fantastic fun.
Awww, see now you made this game sound really cool as well Daedleh.
That's the sort of Zombie based game I can get behind - it's a staple of the genre that zombies are part of the environment, used to jack up the tension between humans rather than the adversary themselves.
Sounds mechanically very clever. Like the idea of a "sneaky" gang of kids against a gang of traditional "bad guy" survivors, narratively very pleasing!
The official Walking Dead brand website has a few more details about the game including price. Doesn't sound like they are going the Kickstarter rote (although wouldn't object if they did).
Set to release towards the end of 2016, The Walking Dead Miniatures Game will be a tactical, two-player game set in the walker-strewn Atlanta cityscape, with each player controlling a small band of human survivors vying to achieve dominance. It can also be played solo thanks to an AI system developed specifically for this game to ensure walker behaviour is menacingly authentic.
Featuring stunningly detailed plastic miniatures that capture comic accurate likenesses and poses, the gameplay will recreate the desperate struggle for survival that makes the series so popular.
With a target price of £35/$50 the core game will feature Rick, Carl and other heroes and villains ripped straight from the pages of the hit comic book, plus a host of walkers, a selection of scenarios and everything else needed to play. A series of expansions are scheduled for release in the months following the launch, introducing additional fan-favorite characters such as Shane, Michonne and Glenn.
From the art it looks like they are sculpting zombies from the comic. Hopefully they will do the same for the humans as one of Neegans group is based upon my likeness so may get a mini out of it.
Mildly interested. Same issue as what people have said already... Zombie game is going to take something really unique to compete with the established zombie board game.
Faction vs faction while hoards of npc zombies try to kill you both could be interesting.
Ronnie the bard wrote:However, I believe to really open up gaming to new markets you have to start with an IP people know and love – and to do it in a big way it has to be a truly massive, well known license. It has to be a property that people love, feel deeply about and want to get more involved with. Then you have to make the game world class, simple, fun and exciting, with tactics and army building. The miniatures have to be astounding so you want to get on and paint them and bring the world to life. And let’s be honest, full armies take a long time to collect and get painted – so something with 10 or so models is a great place to start, especially if it scales up a little along the way .
Honestly reading this I thought he was talking about Game of Thrones. It is absurd how popular that series has become.
Edit: just read the post by Daedleh above... ignore the first of this post... sounds like fun
^^ Yeah I'm actually seeing some noise that it won't be kickstarted now. I don't know for definite mind, so please no-one come back if they do KS and say "ahhh but Nick you said..."
I can't remember. It wasn't a "big" name at any rate or not one I recognised, but the mechanics were perfectly sound. There were some clunky bits to work out (turn phases could do with some trimming and there was debate about how quickly/slowly the escalation meter should fill) but the core base was great.
In like the proverbial Flynn. And now I'm kicking myself that I didn't get any of the post apocalyptic card scenery kick starter. The two would be awesome together.
.Mikes. wrote: In like the proverbial Flynn. And now I'm kicking myself that I didn't get any of the post apocalyptic card scenery kick starter. The two would be awesome together.
Worry not, 4ground are bringing out suitable terrain is year, and Plasticraft already have some stuff out.
.Mikes. wrote: In like the proverbial Flynn. And now I'm kicking myself that I didn't get any of the post apocalyptic card scenery kick starter. The two would be awesome together.
I am a bit more intrigued thanks to Daedleh's quick run down. I did get in on that wonderful Battlesystems PostApoc terrain and have plenty of zombies /survivors. So honestly my interest is only flagging due to the fact that I do not have need for much more than rules.
When it comes to factions there are a number of possibilities.
For named groups:
Rick's group
Governor's Group
Terminus Group (it would be nice to have a cannibal rule for them)
The Claimed Gang
Negan's group
Wolves
As for "generic" Groups
Inner city gangs
Local town survivors
Biker Gangs (it would be cool to have mounted guys. They would be fast, but noisy as heck and few in number)
Militia groups
Army groups
When we first found out that it was going to be a postapocalyptic licensed game I said The Walking Dead was the worst of the suggestions, and I stand by that now. Even if you want to make another entry in this overbloated genre, you don't need to pay whatever hack owns TWD to do it.
So we all get to see more cartoony , none true scale miniatures then?
Cool idea, and mantic are great with their community, but Mantic is the last company I can think of that should produce a game for a more serious gritty setting. Like what other people have said I doubt this is going to go very well, mantic are great for younger audiences but they really are lacking
in their art department when it comes to creating a much more serious well focused miniatures and setting. lets see what happens but the minis already have that "heroic look" and the zombies are not nearly as nasty as the ones in the show are.
We will of course know tomorrow hopefully with the first official newsletter for the game, but I'm uncertain now if it is a KS. I thought not because it didn't say KS, post said had lisence to make, not KS, and interviewed Ronnie two weeks back and got the strong impression it would be normal release.
However, it is a Mantic product and gut reaction to new product news day a send a lot of minds directly to KS as a default see what tomorrow brings.
AlexHolker wrote: When we first found out that it was going to be a postapocalyptic licensed game I said The Walking Dead was the worst of the suggestions, and I stand by that now. Even if you want to make another entry in this overbloated genre, you don't need to pay whatever hack owns TWD to do it.
I object to you calling Kirkman a hack! Invincible is an awesome series. The Walking Dead was too depressing for me to stick with, but it's damn good. (Haven't watched the show, talking about the comics)
AlexHolker wrote: When we first found out that it was going to be a postapocalyptic licensed game I said The Walking Dead was the worst of the suggestions, and I stand by that now. Even if you want to make another entry in this overbloated genre, you don't need to pay whatever hack owns TWD to do it.
.Mikes. wrote: In like the proverbial Flynn. And now I'm kicking myself that I didn't get any of the post apocalyptic card scenery kick starter. The two would be awesome together.
Worry not, 4ground are bringing out suitable terrain is year, and Plasticraft already have some stuff out.
I love 4ground, but their stuff is so expensive. It's worth it, but for the price of two or three (admittedly great) 4ground buildings I could have a full postapoc table from Battlesystems.
Anyway, this is all moot until I get my hands on the game. I'm glad I got so many urban scenery packs from the MAKS now. Also there's a local MDF buildings maker in Melbourne (literally just down the road from me) who's started making some great looking, no frills modern urban buildings (Knights of Dice for anyone who's interested). Looks like I'm going to become a customer of theirs.
cuda1179 wrote: When it comes to factions there are a number of possibilities.
For named groups:
Rick's group
Governor's Group
Terminus Group (it would be nice to have a cannibal rule for them)
The Claimed Gang
Negan's group
Wolves
As for "generic" Groups
Inner city gangs
Local town survivors
Biker Gangs (it would be cool to have mounted guys. They would be fast, but noisy as heck and few in number)
Militia groups
Army groups
Don't forget the whisperers ! The box game will come with 3 gangs if you use them ...
AlexHolker wrote: When we first found out that it was going to be a postapocalyptic licensed game I said The Walking Dead was the worst of the suggestions, and I stand by that now. Even if you want to make another entry in this overbloated genre, you don't need to pay whatever hack owns TWD to do it.
I don't remember you coming out against The Walking Dead. In fact, I don't remember anyone mentioning The Walking Dead when we were speculating on what relevant, post apocalyptic license Mantic had won. Fallout, Mad Max, I am Legend and Independence Day were titles people thought might live up to the million dollar KS speculation, back when there was some excitement. The Walking Dead? Uh, sure.
One thing I can't wait to see: people fielding 28mm sections of coral. Coral!
AlexHolker wrote: When we first found out that it was going to be a postapocalyptic licensed game I said The Walking Dead was the worst of the suggestions, and I stand by that now. Even if you want to make another entry in this overbloated genre, you don't need to pay whatever hack owns TWD to do it.
awwww and there he goes
He kind of has a point. Because it's licenced, it'll be more expensive/you'll get less product per $ in the same way that FFG's X-Wing ships ain't cheap. OTOH, the licence sounds like the only real USP that is has in its favour, and will no doubt be able to get it into more retail locations than a more generic, un-licenced product.
Your write-up made it sound fun, but then anything played with friends and enthusiasm is going to be fun. I doubt I'd be able to find time to play something like this since I barely find time to play any of the million other things I own - and more zombies (as nice as the models look) and survivors isn't a big selling point. I'm quite glad it's not Mad Max or Fallout, because either of those would have sorely tested my will. If it's a KS, I'll go in for a token dollar, and if it's a retail release - which I hope it is - I can pretty much ignore it safely until after release and reviews. And probably afterwards, if Alessio's Terminator game is any indication. Supposed to be a great game (well, according to Doug, anyway), but rules and 26 figures for AU$140-180 depending on where you buy it? No thanks - easy pass.
In short, I'm quite happy about this. I want to reduce my buying this year by a significant amount, and this is just what the doctor ordered!
cuda1179 wrote: When it comes to factions there are a number of possibilities.
For named groups:
Rick's group
Governor's Group
Terminus Group (it would be nice to have a cannibal rule for them)
The Claimed Gang
Negan's group
Wolves
As for "generic" Groups
Inner city gangs
Local town survivors
Biker Gangs (it would be cool to have mounted guys. They would be fast, but noisy as heck and few in number)
Militia groups
Army groups
Don't forget the whisperers ! The box game will come with 3 gangs if you use them ...
or
the hill top group led by Jesus
the Kingdom, I'd love to see a lion in miniature form
after all TWD "all out war" comic story line has all four groups, the Hilltop, the Kingdom, the Saviour's, & Alexandrians (Ricks group)
I'm glad Mantic is once again doing well, especially without a kickstarter. I don't always appreciate their sculpting prowess but it does seem to be improving and their original zombie offerings were fantastic.
The downside is I couldn't be more uninterested in a zombie game, especially one in The Walking Dead setting. Almost every game has some flavour of undead to play, usually with multiple variations. Admittedly in TWD the zombies become mostly inconsequential set pieces or terrain roadblocks. However what we're left with then is a game about skirmish with mostly modern day weaponry. It has none of the appeal if the comics / TV show which is ultimately about people with strong moral compasses (for the most part) being forced to make massive decisions and ultimately compromise in the face of a new brutal world, and living with their choices. I can't really think of many visually distinct groups. Everyone is again mostly in plain clothes and falls into the untrained, trained or have now survived the zombie apocalypse so have training camps.
Again I'm sure it will do fantastic and I'm sure Mantic will do well with it. It just doesn't seem to be all that appealing to myself unless it was a Dead of Winter style boardgame or an RPG scenario.
AlexHolker wrote: When we first found out that it was going to be a postapocalyptic licensed game I said The Walking Dead was the worst of the suggestions, and I stand by that now. Even if you want to make another entry in this overbloated genre, you don't need to pay whatever hack owns TWD to do it.
awwww and there he goes
Meh, I wouldn't be too worried. He's had maybe one post in his entire time here that wasn't pointless and worth ignoring.
I've got friends who are cautiously optimistic about Mantic, but have the biggest hard-on for TWD possible. This should be an easy sell.
Excited for any terrain bits created for the game. I also think the zombies are pretty cool. Not sure I need new zombie rules as it's a pretty tight market, but agree there will be a net positive effect from the game.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's no associated terrain. Ronnie said in a recent release that the Battlezone scenery wasn't selling as well an anticipated, and there are already companies making very good post apoc and modern urban terrain.
I'm in the process of making 4 2x2 modular urban sf tiles for Infinity. I reckon I'll tone down the futuriness i them so they be adapted to post apoc now. Plenty of .ore uses then.
I'm hoping Mantic scales the models better than Mars Attacks - their humans were incredibly small and the detail suffered for it. I really think CMON hit the proper scale for detailing single piece miniatures (which I assume these will be for ease of play to compete ith any other miniature board game offering).
That said, even if they are a bit smaller, I might jump in. I have TWD graphic novels and started reading the first, but fell off after a a couple dozen pages one night. So really, I don't care all that much about the TWD world (though Telltale did a nice job in their games, and I'd pick up those characters in a heart beat), so if they can't bring me in on minis, maybe terrain will do it. Rules maybe, too.
Lord knows I have enough zombie apoc minis as is....
.Mikes. wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if there's no associated terrain. Ronnie said in a recent release that the Battlezone scenery wasn't selling as well an anticipated, and there are already companies making very good post apoc and modern urban terrain.
I'm in the process of making 4 2x2 modular urban sf tiles for Infinity. I reckon I'll tone down the futuriness i them so they be adapted to post apoc now. Plenty of .ore uses then.
I think the Mars Attacks battle ground sets could have worked if they decided not to follow that bizarre 3x3 grid and peg system, and instead just did modular pieces in 4", 6", etc sections with vertical dividers and corner pieces to fit it all together neatly, kind of like how DUST tactics did their building kit.
Ehh - I'm not a fan of the show or anything - but it also looks like yet another zombie game.
Zombies are like sooo done by now aren't they? It seems pretty hard to get excited about a zombie game. So many people make zombie minis and whatnot too. I don't see what will make it stand out.
.Mikes. wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if there's no associated terrain. Ronnie said in a recent release that the Battlezone scenery wasn't selling as well an anticipated, and there are already companies making very good post apoc and modern urban terrain.
I'm in the process of making 4 2x2 modular urban sf tiles for Infinity. I reckon I'll tone down the futuriness i them so they be adapted to post apoc now. Plenty of .ore uses then.
I think one reason the Battlezones haven't sold as well as expected is because they sold so much of in their KS campaigns. I've got way more than I'll ever need, and I doubt I'm anywhere near alone.
Slightly more generic scenery is often preferable to overly-specific scenery. Add "flavour" pieces of scatter terrain, etc, for specificity while keeping the big pieces generic is the way to go. (When I get them done) my Tablescapes roads won't have aquilas stencilled on them, and so they'll be able to be used for 40k, WW2, post-apoc, and so forth easily.
-iPaint- wrote: I'm hoping Mantic scales the models better than Mars Attacks - their humans were incredibly small and the detail suffered for it. I really think CMON hit the proper scale for detailing single piece miniatures (which I assume these will be for ease of play to compete ith any other miniature board game offering).
Mantic's scale is all over the shop - very inconsistent. The Dungeon Saga miniatures aren't to scale with their KoW equivalents and their WarPath Orx etc are even worse.. It's one of the reasons I keep saying that they need an art director.
I think the Mars Attacks battle ground sets could have worked if they decided not to follow that bizarre 3x3 grid and peg system, and instead just did modular pieces in 4", 6", etc sections with vertical dividers and corner pieces to fit it all together neatly, kind of like how DUST tactics did their building kit.
That's a very good point as well. They were designed very much for DeadZone at their core, and don't really feel like anything in particular.
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adamsouza wrote: It's not hard to get excited by a zombie game if your a zombie enthusiast.
The Walking Dead has a viewership of 10 Million +
If even 1% buy the game that is HUGE.
I enjoy zombies, but the gamespace we're in is flooded by them. That affects us as active gamers more than the general public, though. The drawback to the game is that it's a tabletop miniatures game with a campaign system - which is all very "gamer" as opposed to a pick-up-and-play. For true mass market appeal you basically need a boardgame that can be played in discrete sessions without needing to worry about tape measures, inches or campaign systems. The template that Zombicide, Zombies!!! and probably a few others already sit comfortably in. It's a great licence for mainstream appeal, but I don't think that aiming it at us (Wargamers) is the best move - particularly when a mass-market boardgame would appeal to far more people out there.
Suggesting that 1% of TWD's (or any mainstream television show's) viewership is likely to buy a tabletop miniatures game is lollerskates, though. May as well make a Minecraft app and hope that 1% of all the minecraft fans in the world buy it for $2 and GET RICH (an actual "idea" floated by a friend ) The viewship numbers are way too large to hope for 1% to buy this particular piece of licenced merchandise - or indeed any specific SKU of licenced merchandise. Do you expect that 1% of Star Wars fans bought either of these?
Another zombies game? I will never understand the appeal of this genre. Good on Mantic for landing what seems like a large (but boring) property. May it draw in loads of cash so they can get back to producing fantasy plastics.
Silent Killer: All Walkers are silent until they attack.
Check your peripheral: There is ALWAYS a walker just outside your peripheral vision, regardless of where you are or if the area has been cleared. Whenever your model changes direction, you will be faced with a walker.
Butt Scoot: See a Walker, fall over, scoot backwards on your butt until a) ANOTHER walker grabs your ankle or b) Michonne/Rick saves you.
There could be a mechanic linking all of these together. I don't know, I'm not a games designer.
Type 1
Small initial box set that "works". Contains rules and enough to play (just). Followed by lots of expensive mini box sets of characters/sets. Eg X-wing / Imperial assault
Type 2
Kickstarted with what seems like a million exclusive figures. Everyone buys what they need in the KS and never purchases anything retail for it ever. Eg Zombicide or previous Mantic kickstarters.
I personally have a feeling it will go with the first type. Mainly to sell all the named characters and alternate special editions in mini boxes to people who will likely only be buying them as collectibles while the TV show is "in".
Are Mantic really viewing this as a gaming opportunity or more like GW had their LotR bubble with collectors?
The only odd thing for me is why not wrap up the TV licence as well, just as Daryl has become a very popular character and some folks who haven't bothered with the comics, might be surprised to discover he hasn't been in them.
I believe it's an entirely separate licence at this stage, so they'd be paying twice as much (or more, given the popularity of the TV show compared to the Comics at this stage).
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote: The only odd thing for me is why not wrap up the TV licence as well, just as Daryl has become a very popular character and some folks who haven't bothered with the comics, might be surprised to discover he hasn't been in them.
I guess it has to do with both money (a probably more expensive 2nd license) and artistic freedom (likeness of characters, availibility of characters (timeline TV show vs. comic books) and scrutiny of the license holder.)
The hint to AvP/prodoss and their problems was already given - while AMC might handle things differently from Fox, it would still be much more of an adminsitrative hassle than working with a small creative team lead by the actual creators of the franchise.
Right, the Telltale Walking Dead videogame only had a license for the comics, mostly because it was cheaper. It did however also allow them to use the more iconic artwork of the comics, and this could well be a boon for Mantic - remember how their artwork and art design isn't the best? This is all premade for them, both in print materials and concept artwork for the models.
I wouldn't be surprised if they do a bag of WD-themed "accessory" terrain to go with the box set, but then made the remainder of it cardboard. £35 is cheap enough that they can't really fill the box with huge amounts of plastic terrain, but they'll want to give people a "full" out of box wargaming experience a la Mars Attacks.
I can understand why they're excited, but if they're not launching a Kickstarter for this I'm not really sure why things are being announced nearly a near before release. Thought the optimal 'hype window' would be ~3 months.
It sounds like they have gone down exactly the right route in game concept (at least in terms of what I was hoping it would be myself! )
Encouraging also that it seems KS is less of a possibility, I wonder with the strength of the licence if Mantic are going to try direct to some mainstream shops?
Pacific wrote: Many, many thanks Deadleh for the write-up
It sounds like they have gone down exactly the right route in game concept (at least in terms of what I was hoping it would be myself! )
Encouraging also that it seems KS is less of a possibility, I wonder with the strength of the licence if Mantic are going to try direct to some mainstream shops?
Silent Killer: All Walkers are silent until they attack.
Haha, yes the 'out of camera shot' silent attack (as first used by Steven Seagal) - they definitely need some way of implementing that in the rules
Each turn the players alternate setting up the spawning zombies. 1st player sets one, then 2nd player sets one up then back to 1st player until all zombies are on the board at their entry points. The "active player" then gets to move d3 zombies X inches (or one zombie d3 times) if this gets a zombie into base to base com at then the zombie gets a bonus sneak attack. That would make going for objectives that much harder as you would need to ensure you get there and succeed in one turn, otherwise the other player would be swamping you with newly spawned zombies to tie you up.
Somehow I hope the zombies are more primarily AI. Getting to control them and use them like unreliable drones kind of breaks reality for me. Especially if you can turn them around. Maybe some kind of preference in which of two closest targets one goes after or something, but hopefully not much steering.
Maybe have random facing when they come on? Say from a board edge, you have a 180 deg 'scatter' template, roll away and set them off in that direction.
Then any other walkers that come one after will head towards that walker/group of walkers forming a heard. They will then head towards the action/noise.
Alternatively, they head directly towards the nearest (or noisiest) group of survivors.
Maybe they will have dedicated spawn points as marked by maybe a red rectangle. Flipping a card would reveal how many zombies to put on the spawn point every turn. Then maybe they could use, I dunno, noise tokens or something to force the zombies to head towards the noise if they cant visually see a survivor.
Of course, now that I see it, those mechanics would never work...
The demo I played , the zombies were AI based but certain circumstances allowed a player to move some of them. In the game two characters were around a trashed car nearly surrounded by zombies, a random event had the car blow up, killed a ton of zombies but then drew more in. You could also "kite" groups of zombies into the opposing gang. One thing mentioned was that the sides would also reflect different periods in the story for the same gang- so different skills, different weapons etc . Definitely a KS from how it was talked about.
In some other news, warlord has also released a bulletin about their partnership with wargames factory, and will be re-releasing their zombie range... with 'surprises'. So this isn't the only zombie goodness coming. Personally i mix them all into one big horde....
Maybe they will have dedicated spawn points as marked by maybe a red rectangle. Flipping a card would reveal how many zombies to put on the spawn point every turn. Then maybe they could use, I dunno, noise tokens or something to force the zombies to head towards the noise if they cant visually see a survivor.
Of course, now that I see it, those mechanics would never work...
I don't like the red rectangle idea, but I think you might be referencing something else. I haven't played Zombicide but I imagine it's from that?
If so - it seems like CMON borrowed the Zombies Follow Noises thing from TWD anyways, so it's all much of a muchness really
Meade wrote: In some other news, warlord has also released a bulletin about their partnership with wargames factory, and will be re-releasing their zombie range... with 'surprises'. So this isn't the only zombie goodness coming. Personally i mix them all into one big horde....
Yeah, I'll be honest, they could make this game an exact copy of Zombicide but without the board and I would love it. Zombicide is great.
BUT I think I'll pick this up on its own merits anyway, assuming the $50 core price is correct. I like TWD's comic art style and minis based on that sounds great to me!
Meade wrote: In some other news, warlord has also released a bulletin about their partnership with wargames factory, and will be re-releasing their zombie range... with 'surprises'. So this isn't the only zombie goodness coming. Personally i mix them all into one big horde....
A nice surprise would be re-tooling the male zombie sprue, it's really showing its age. If they bring it up to par with the survivor sprues... OMG
Azazelx wrote: And probably afterwards, if Alessio's Terminator game is any indication. Supposed to be a great game (well, according to Doug, anyway), but rules and 26 figures for AU$140-180 depending on where you buy it? No thanks - easy pass.
Buy the rulebook! Terminator is still easily the best new ruleset released in 2015. Should be required reading for anyone looking to write rules, so they can see an example of perfection of elegance.
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Azazelx wrote: I think one reason the Battlezones haven't sold as well as expected is because they sold so much of in their KS campaigns. I've got way more than I'll ever need, and I doubt I'm anywhere near alone.
Also, way too many SKUs. There should be like one sku per sprue type. They had like 25 different sets and skus and whatnot and it was hard to tell wtf was in each set.
While what I have seem of the models so far has me neither excited nor bored. Hearing the rules I am intrigued and if they do it right I could be tempted.
I very much hope this is a straight to retail game. If it is their is a chance of my local game store picking this up. If its a kickstarter they probably wont as they already have enough mantic stuff sitting on the shelves unsold.
A nice surprise would be re-tooling the male zombie sprue, it's really showing its age. If they bring it up to par with the survivor sprues... OMG
Their male zombies are horrible... the female vixens are the best thing you can get IMO. The survivor sprues are all you need for any zombie wargame really! Their AWI re-releases came with a bunch of new plastic goodies.... so the question really is what other cool stuff is coming?
I mean depending on what terrain and goodies are included here, im probably interested primarily in the zombies and the rules. Terrain i have covered... got the battlesystems terrain coming.
I can see it now, the confusion of people who purchase this and return it because the game Rick is missing a hand because it's based on the comic vs the TV Rick who isn't missing limbs.
agnosto wrote: I can see it now, the confusion of people who purchase this and return it because the game Rick is missing a hand because it's based on the comic vs the TV Rick who isn't missing limbs.
Maybe a few, but generally speaking TWD merch I have seen is pretty clearly designated as either comic-related or show-related. The comic-related stuff has comic artwork all over it while show related-products feature images of the actors or stills from the show. I doubt too many will be confused. If you don't see Andrew Lincoln on the box art it ain't show related. I think most TWD fans are aware of the distinct divide between the two variants of the story.
Give this man a mic, his voice is dying and reanimated during the video too. It is sad to see the bad sound situation is still unchanged after so many vids. Come on, Mantic :(
Meade wrote: In some other news, warlord has also released a bulletin about their partnership with wargames factory, and will be re-releasing their zombie range... with 'surprises'. So this isn't the only zombie goodness coming. Personally i mix them all into one big horde....
My horde has many many different manufacturers...
About half of the painted horde:
Spoiler:
Very nice!
Love the MJ that you've got hidden in amongst them
So is Mantic Games doing their own miniatures range to go with this game, or are they are just writing the game and collaborating with others like how Studio Tomahawk wrote the rules for SAGA for Gripping Beast?
Check out their survivors for a bunch of figs that would go with this new rule set too.
That website went a bit screwy on my end for a moment when I was navigating the shop. Kept getting redirected to a porn site and an "online browser feedback form". Its working fine now and AVG is coming up clean.
I'm surprised because even though it's Mantic from the release it sounded like they would be making product, everything already worked out. Oh well, I not into KS anymore but hopefully this is in retailers by the end of the year.
Maybe a few, but generally speaking TWD merch I have seen is pretty clearly designated as either comic-related or show-related. The comic-related stuff has comic artwork all over it while show related-products feature images of the actors or stills from the show. I doubt too many will be confused. If you don't see Andrew Lincoln on the box art it ain't show related. I think most TWD fans are aware of the distinct divide between the two variants of the story.
That'd be hardcore fans through to the moderately well-informed. Again the viewer numbers for this thing are too big to make any kind of assumptions based on "most" viewers or even that 1%.
primalexile wrote: That Carl is horrible... Someone has to say it and it may be premature but I am sensing it already...
Mantic...Almost?
DaveC wrote: Carl Grimes and a walker from the newsletter
[/img]
Seems true to the art...
That actually is close to the art, never realized the comics actual style. this art style should work with Mantics sculpting style. The proportions still seem super wonky, it is too early to tell if it will be a reoccurring issue or not.
Proportions arnt too bad you have to remember hes younger in the comics about 6/7 when it starts rather than 12ish as on tv . And that version they have done of him is a early one from way before the all out war arc . There will be another version of him with a smaller head but they cant show that one for another 6weeks lol
This newsletter will be sent every Wednesday for at least the next four weeks to tell you about the latest posts, videos and previews from The Walking Dead: All Out War miniatures game.
Given that it's an estimated 4 week preview I suspect the Kickstarter will launch in about 5 weeks (with the previews being extended past 4 weeks if Kickstarter isn't ready).
Erebus Studios wrote: Cool idea, and mantic are great with their community, but Mantic is the last company I can think of that should produce a game for a more serious gritty setting.
*cough* *couch* Cryptozoic *hack* *hurl* *gag*
I'm just happy that a non-suck game of TWD will *finally* be made. I've yet to read of a TWD boardgame that's either mechanically enjoyable, or thematically correct:
Based on what's been shown so far, i'm not sure how you can assume that this game will 100% definitely be mechanically enjoyable and thematically correct?
I'm not saying it won't be, it's that not enough is known about it to make that determination at this time.
Did I say 100%? After Daedleh's post I'm optimistic. I'm certainly happier to read his post than the BGG reviews of Cryptozoic's Ghostbusters game (another licensed game with miniatures) and current TDW games on the market.
Of course, you can't leap to conclusions based on preview games.
But, it's a fair amount to go on (comments from people who have actually played the game), and I think a good reason to be at the very least cautiously optimistic about it!
Maybe a few, but generally speaking TWD merch I have seen is pretty clearly designated as either comic-related or show-related. The comic-related stuff has comic artwork all over it while show related-products feature images of the actors or stills from the show. I doubt too many will be confused. If you don't see Andrew Lincoln on the box art it ain't show related. I think most TWD fans are aware of the distinct divide between the two variants of the story.
That'd be hardcore fans through to the moderately well-informed. Again the viewer numbers for this thing are too big to make any kind of assumptions based on "most" viewers or even that 1%.
Sure, but I guess I am giving people the benefit of the doubt. I imagine people who are familiar with TWD should be able to figure out this game is based on the comic and not the TV show from how the final product will be presented.
I watch the TV show, but never bothered with the comics. I have given up comics years ago, and though my collection is larger than most stores I've been in I just haven't had the urge to go back to that. Rick missing a hand and carl with only one eye.....I'll stick to my Manopera . Besides the zombicide figures are close enough for me. Now if a Zombicide cartoon came out on TV..........
You can pick up the TWD Compendiums at a good price and conveniently on Amazon. Comics are expensive, but the compendiums knock down the price to a buck per issue. The first compendium is 48 issues for $36. On top of this, you can wait for the Amazon holiday discounts, which knock off another 25% or more. Best entertainment I've had in *years*.
Be prepared though, having just watched the show some of the events happen in different order in the comic.
Or not at all.
I've been reading TWD since issue # 1. It was on my pull list and I've been getting it since I pre-ordered # 1 from Previews. Seems a looooooong time ago now.
The TV show is good, but does not follow the comic, nor does it have all the same characters. Some of the storylines have the same theme, but that's about it. Makes it good from my point of view as it means I effectively get 2 totally different Walking Dead stories to follow. If the TV had matched the comic, I'd have got bored by now from knowing the story.
---
Will I be buying this game from Mantic? Well, that all depends.
If Mantic go all CMON/Zombicide and start releasing a million character sculpts and exclusives, I just won't be bothered at all.
What's annoyed me the most of all. They've removed all the Zombie AI rules from the latest KS2 of Deadzone which were from KS1 for some reason or other. But now they plan on making Walking Dead which sounds like PvP with Zombie NPCs - just like gaming in Deadzone 1 Contagion (RIP). As DZ2 backers we were paying for updated and improving the rules. What we've got is a watered down version and the stuff we played the most is being removed to go to Walking Dead.
Part of the Kickstarter statement for Deadzone 2 was;
"With this Kickstarter we’re also taking the opportunity to revisit the main rulebook, putting it into a glorious hardback format whilst making a few changes, including:"
And missing from the list below that statement should have been;
"Removing all rules for Zombie AI games as we're taking that idea to a licensed product coming soon"
Be prepared though, having just watched the show some of the events happen in different order in the comic.
Or not at all.
I've been reading TWD since issue # 1. It was on my pull list and I've been getting it since I pre-ordered # 1 from Previews. Seems a looooooong time ago now.
The TV show is good, but does not follow the comic, nor does it have all the same characters. Some of the storylines have the same theme, but that's about it. Makes it good from my point of view as it means I effectively get 2 totally different Walking Dead stories to follow. If the TV had matched the comic, I'd have got bored by now from knowing the story.
---
Will I be buying this game from Mantic? Well, that all depends.
If Mantic go all CMON/Zombicide and start releasing a million character sculpts and exclusives, I just won't be bothered at all.
What's annoyed me the most of all. They've removed all the Zombie AI rules from the latest KS2 of Deadzone which were from KS1 for some reason or other. But now they plan on making Walking Dead which sounds like PvP with Zombie NPCs - just like gaming in Deadzone 1 Contagion (RIP). As DZ2 backers we were paying for updated and improving the rules. What we've got is a watered down version and the stuff we played the most is being removed to go to Walking Dead.
Part of the Kickstarter statement for Deadzone 2 was;
"With this Kickstarter we’re also taking the opportunity to revisit the main rulebook, putting it into a glorious hardback format whilst making a few changes, including:"
And missing from the list below that statement should have been;
"Removing all rules for Zombie AI games as we're taking that idea to a licensed product coming soon"
:-(
That was my thought as well. "This sounds an awful lot like Deadzone without lasers."
I'm not too bothered by the disappearance of the zombie stuff from Deadzone. Hopefully it still shows up in some form or another in the Compendium.
Doubtful, but still hopeful.
Contagion was one of my favorite parts of the original DZ campaign, so I don't mind it being incorporated/ improved upon for TWD.
Also giving me a bit of a Frostgrave vibe, what with 2 persistent (hopefully for this as well) gangs scrounging around for loot while avoiding wandering monsters.
Good thing I couldn't care less about TWD or more zombie games. Even if it was some other thing that made me hot and bothered, Mantic and I are no longer on speaking terms. Good luck to those who decide to take another ride with Mantic...I'm out.
totalfailure wrote: Good thing I couldn't care less about TWD or more zombie games. Even if it was some other thing that made me hot and bothered, Mantic and I are no longer on speaking terms. Good luck to those who decide to take another ride with Mantic...I'm out.
Thanks for the good luck wishes. Good luck also to you in your future endeavors.
^Yeah. Now I don't have convert my own Michone, and I guess the rest of them... Guess I'll still have to DIY Darryl and maybe Meryl (Merle? However you spell that), but the later only cause knife hands rule.
adamsouza wrote: Nothing says how little you care like taking the time to tell everyone how you don't care.
Well, I think for KS, it's important to know the track record of companies starting a new KS, and Mantic doesn't have a very good one. Dungeon Saga's base game was well-accepted by BGG, but the Adventurer's Companion was typo-ridden and lacking substance, and resin pieces poorly made (eg. fingerprints on tiles). DS tiles were double-sided with the same artwork (!) and the tiles didn't fit the clips. I'm a fan of the license, not the company. "Mantic: At least we're not Cryptozoic".
How were the Mars Attacks figures? I'm **completely** guessing that that will be the format used for TWD. MA was aimed more towards the mass market than their other hobby game lines.
Mars attacks figures are solid, but have decent mold lines and are fairly bendy.
I think DBX and then DS are direct upgrade/replacements in terms of their board game materials soxmy assumption would be that lev of quality/material. I could handle MA stuff too, bit shallow, but if you take the best quality stuff (the tiger corps and bounty hunters) it would be pretty solid.
After grinding through a bunch of hard plastic mantic sci-fi zombies and WGF survivors, some nice single piece figures would be a nice change.
The Mars Attacks figures were pretty good. The Martians were the weakest of the bunch, with the U.S. troops being about as good as most restic minis if not better and the Tiger Corps being the stand out for quality. Honestly, the Tiger Corps may be the best "board game plastic" minis I've ever seen. The Dungeon Saga minis were mostly the same quality, although my copy of Valandor was apparently miscast.
I'll second Bob's sentiments on the Mars Attacks stuff.
I love the bugs as well as the Tiger Corps. The soldiers are pretty decent for generic modern soldiers.
I thought the terrain was a step up from the Deadzone stuff as well. Never had a Mars Attack connector snap on me. Buildings went together smoothly. Way better than DZ1.
Hopefully DZ2 builds on that, and we get some new TWD battlezones that add variety to the Mars Attacks ones.
What's annoyed me the most of all. They've removed all the Zombie AI rules from the latest KS2 of Deadzone which were from KS1 for some reason or other. But now they plan on making Walking Dead which sounds like PvP with Zombie NPCs - just like gaming in Deadzone 1 Contagion (RIP). As DZ2 backers we were paying for updated and improving the rules. What we've got is a watered down version and the stuff we played the most is being removed to go to Walking Dead.
Part of the Kickstarter statement for Deadzone 2 was;
"With this Kickstarter we’re also taking the opportunity to revisit the main rulebook, putting it into a glorious hardback format whilst making a few changes, including:"
And missing from the list below that statement should have been;
"Removing all rules for Zombie AI games as we're taking that idea to a licensed product coming soon"
:-(
Hm. That's not cool. Are people discussing that/rioting in the DZ KS comments?
GrimDork wrote: ^Yeah. Now I don't have convert my own Michone, and I guess the rest of them... Guess I'll still have to DIY Darryl and maybe Meryl (Merle? However you spell that), but the later only cause knife hands rule.
Studio Miniatures has Michone with pets and Darryl.
I don't really know why you quoted me, but Manitc's track record varies with whom you speak to.
Ive backed Dreadball, Dreadball Extreme. Kings of War II , and Deadzone, and haven't had any issues besides some missing bases, which they promptly took care of.
I haven't played Mars Attacks, as that prperty doesn't interest me, but I've heard nothing but good things about it
What's annoyed me the most of all. They've removed all the Zombie AI rules from the latest KS2 of Deadzone which were from KS1 for some reason or other. But now they plan on making Walking Dead which sounds like PvP with Zombie NPCs - just like gaming in Deadzone 1 Contagion (RIP). As DZ2 backers we were paying for updated and improving the rules. What we've got is a watered down version and the stuff we played the most is being removed to go to Walking Dead.
Part of the Kickstarter statement for Deadzone 2 was;
"With this Kickstarter we’re also taking the opportunity to revisit the main rulebook, putting it into a glorious hardback format whilst making a few changes, including:"
And missing from the list below that statement should have been;
"Removing all rules for Zombie AI games as we're taking that idea to a licensed product coming soon"
:-(
Hm. That's not cool. Are people discussing that/rioting in the DZ KS comments?
No, because it's something the RC will rework for v2 at some point, along with everything else.
I was kind of wondering about that... I mean did they remove the zombie rules from the core rulebook... wait. Zombie rules were never in the core rulebook they were in an expansion. One thing at a time maybe? Besides the zombie rules were pretty basic, is there anything that's changed that will make the zombies unusable? They still have stats. The AI should be no different. What am I missing? How does not updating all expansion material at the same time as you revamp the core game equate to 'dismissing all of the zombie rules in the game because we're running a zombie game'?
Yes, the rules were in a 32-page booklet called Deadzone: Contagion.
Of this, the zombie-relevant parts are:
- 3 pages of zombie rules
- 1/2 page about how to use Zombies in existing missions
- 7 page solo campaign (3 pages of rules, 4 missions)
I don't know enough about "Deadzone 2.0", but the rules are simple enough that you should be able to adapt them easily.
GrimDork wrote: I was kind of wondering about that... I mean did they remove the zombie rules from the core rulebook... wait. Zombie rules were never in the core rulebook they were in an expansion. One thing at a time maybe? Besides the zombie rules were pretty basic, is there anything that's changed that will make the zombies unusable? They still have stats. The AI should be no different. What am I missing? How does not updating all expansion material at the same time as you revamp the core game equate to 'dismissing all of the zombie rules in the game because we're running a zombie game'?
=/
By that fantastic argument I take it of course that you won't be expecting to see any of the following either;
Indirect Weapons or Vehicles (Nexus Psi)
Asterians, Forge Fathers. Bikes, Shields, Smokescreens (Incursion)
They were only expansions, I'm sure you can house rule and adapt all those into your games.
I think people missed my point. We paid to upgrade our Deadzone in the kickstarter. Yet Mantic seem to be removing some of the parts we liked, and managing to make an entire licensed product out of some of the stuff we're losing from Deadzone.
I'll not say more on the topic. However, if the Deadzone Rules Committee do even half as good a job as the Kings of War RC did, then I know we'll get a great game in Deadzone2. Just a shame I've lost any opponents I once had as it was the battle cards that swayed them into playing it.
^ We're planning to release an updated set of stat cards as .pdf's too. One of many projects to complete, will take time. Might even be able to outsource that task to the community since I've seen plenty of custom stat cards posted in the facebook group.
We're writing the campaign book for the Exham IV Deadzone currently, once we've done that, we'll have a better idea of how to proceed with reworking previous expansions to fit v2, Nexus PSI will be a natural first choice to go back over, rework the scenarios, make a custom d88 table for etc.
Again, it's one of those things where if someone wants to take a serious stab at updating it to a professional standard (20 hours work minimum for a first draft done properly, I'd estimate), that's something the RC can then have a look at, read through and work on before submitting to Mantic as an official errata/update to the original book.
At this point, the v1.5 .pdf is pretty much final, and it's a matter of clearing up wording and proofreading.
scarletsquig wrote: ^ We're planning to release an updated set of stat cards as .pdf's too. One of many projects to complete, will take time. Might even be able to outsource that task to the community since I've seen plenty of custom stat cards posted in the facebook group.
We're writing the campaign book for the Exham IV Deadzone currently, once we've done that, we'll have a better idea of how to proceed with reworking previous expansions to fit v2, Nexus PSI will be a natural first choice to go back over, rework the scenarios, make a custom d88 table for etc.
Again, it's one of those things where if someone wants to take a serious stab at updating it to a professional standard (20 hours work minimum for a first draft done properly, I'd estimate), that's something the RC can then have a look at, read through and work on before submitting to Mantic as an official errata/update to the original book.
At this point, the v1.5 .pdf is pretty much final, and it's a matter of clearing up wording and proofreading.
Thank you. That's a long way to restoring my faith in what's going on.
Have you any idea if the new hardback is going to be the same large size as current DZ ones or more like that smaller format KoW one. (Love the KoW hardback rulebook).
On topic... have Mantic said if the figures are boardgame plastic ready made like Zombicide, or will they be hard plastic?
I'm hoping the zombies will be hard plastic on sprues so we can make a variety of poses. Otherwise the zombie horde may look a bit samey. How sprue models will sell to a non hobby boardgame crowd is a different matter ofc.
I would guess boardgame plastic, but I dint think they've said either way. Boardgame plastic seems more accessible to a wider audience and without the rules we can't say how many zombies you need. May be a fairly low number since they're more of a hazard.
scarletsquig wrote: How sprue models will sell to a non hobby boardgame crowd is a different matter ofc.
If Sedition Wars is any indication, then not at all.
After playing Zombicide, I can tell you that even 8 unique sculpts look okay when they are in hordes. You're really just looking at those on the outside edges anyways.
John D Law wrote: Maybe I missed it in the announcement but is this purely based on the graphic novels or will we see main characters like Daryl?
Purely based upon the comics. They are treated as completely separate licences so I would not expect to ever see Daryl in the game unless he is also introduced in the comic (there are a few imitation Daryl miniatures out there though so can easily proxy him).
Me too! Played both seasons of the game, loved them and would very much like to own miniatures of the characters. Utterly unfamiliar with the comic itself, although that didn't stop me with Mars Attacks...
Can't imagine they can resist making a zombie version of EVERY named character, so when they get bumped off they can join the horde coming after the rest of your guys :-)
Thanks here's what I got from the interview as it does ramble on a bit
Set amount of stuff to fund once funded that's it regardless of how long the KS has left to run.
Ronnie mentions that if they do fund everything it will be their biggest KS so they have planned beyond $1.2 million then.
Base pledge $100 - $125
1 pledge level only all in no add ons to prevent packing mistakes.
Retail starter box £35/$50.
Papermat and card terrain in box. KS may fund 3D terrain.
Retail blisters $12.50/$20 - 1 Hero, 1 secondary hero, 1 unique zombie, character and equipment cards
A few unique heroes will be retail only - not available in KS 120 sculpts in the product range. Sculpts are bulkier and a bit bigger than Mars Attacks and DS
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: $100-125 is quite a high starting point for a game with a retail price of $50, so I do wonder quite how much extra will be in there for that
but I do approve of the single pledge level as they really, really do need to solve their warehouse issues
I thought the same thing, especially since it will only be around $40 once the online retailers get ahold of it.
So would that mean that the pledge level can do nothing but fatten as we reach the 1.2m+ cap of prepared items? I mean Surely they won't be funding things that they would hold onto until retail?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, I hope they aren't too much bigger than mars attacks, I would like this to match up with my other stuff.
I guess they are looking for more backers at lower amounts. 10,000 to 12,000 backers would get them the $1.2 million. That said no Mantic KS has broken 6,000 backers but they might be looking at something like Zombicide where BP had 20k+ and S3 had 12k backers.
One pledge level could work, although $125 is too high, it would have to be $100 like Dungeon Saga to keep within people's casual spend limits.
If they have at least 50 minis to start, and finish at 100+, that will work out well.
Also, upgrades to the paper mat and card terrain have to happen, unless there is a *lot* of good quality card terrain there and they've thought about it properly (thinking DZC-style terrain). Paper stuff just feels cheap, and if you're going with card terrain, battlesystems have far better stuff.
Ronnie does talk a good bit about his love of terrain in the BoW video so if they can raise the funds it looks like they will do it whether there's much of a retail market or not. I get the feeling by 3D terrain they mean scatter terrain like crates and loot and cars, cars get mentioned a lot.
The 20th century brick terrain will cover buildings and that's available right now no need to make it and no need to offer it as part of the KS (other than perhaps as part of the pledge level?) so less to pack and ship (and upset retailers about)
I doubt that they will do more building terrain, but Ronnie was talking about (what we consider) scatter terrain. He was gushing over the dungeon saga terrain at one point before I shut it off, so I see more stuff like shelves, vending machines or objectives to be searched or lend atmosphere. I could also see barricades being made for missions like attack the rivals stronghold.
I also hope the size difference is not to large as the Mars attacks marines would be a good group to have at the beginning of the zombie outbreak. Larger scale just means Carl's head gets larger as well
DaveC wrote: Ronnie does talk a good bit about his love of terrain in the BoW video so if they can raise the funds it looks like they will do it whether there's much of a retail market or not. I get the feeling by 3D terrain they mean scatter terrain like crates and loot and cars, cars get mentioned a lot.
I hope they don't hire Antenocities to smash up die cast cars and sell us recasts for twice what they cost in a toy store again.
Some useful info on todays beasts of war interview with Ronnie,
The recent KS shipping had about 10% of backers reporting missing/damaged items (which since most people don't ask about extra stuff probably means 15-20% of orders with packing errors)
so it's clear the simple one plege level no add ons essential
The recent KS shipping had about 10% of backers reporting missing/damaged items (which since most people don't ask about extra stuff probably means 15-20% of orders with packing errors)
so it's clear the simple one plege level no add ons essential
(just think of that shipping costs)
And that 10% are just the emails they've responded to in the last 6 weeks
10% is a lot. You're talking about 100s of backers.
Simplified pledges are probably a very good idea, and mantic add ons have tended towards poor quality in any case. While the core game + expansions for Dungeon Saga were all top notch, stuff like the trap counters, acryllic counters, dice bags and so on were very poor quality and likely not worth the money or the extra hassle of complicating the packing arrangements.
Based on their historic performance it seems the more options they give backers, the more they mess up. It may change this year with the new names in place (and I have a lot of faith in Matt delivering a substantial step change in the way they run things), but it remains to be seen.
The recent KS shipping had about 10% of backers reporting missing/damaged items (which since most people don't ask about extra stuff probably means 15-20% of orders with packing errors)
so it's clear the simple one plege level no add ons essential
(just think of that shipping costs)
I'm going to guess he was referring to DBX wave 2, where
1) the pledge manager just up and ate some options
2) nobody told the packing drones that some teams were bundled in 1 bag, some were in 2 different bags and some needed 2 identical bags
If he meant KoW2, which had pretty simple upgrade options and all components were pre-packed, then a 10% failure rate is horrific and they should get rid of pretty much everyone involved
Well he was talking of spending all of the last week (since he was in talking about walking dead the interview is pretty recent) in the warehouse packing pledges as they were so under the gun so it must include the most recent set of shipping at least,
but I suspect he's talking more broadly and probably about 2015
Taaloc wrote: Based on their historic performance it seems the more options they give backers, the more they mess up. It may change this year with the new names in place (and I have a lot of faith in Matt delivering a substantial step change in the way they run things), but it remains to be seen.
Good to hear the news.
Including existing terrain that they've already made makes marketing sense. The terrain molds have already been paid for. Sending physical product to backers may encourage them to buy more after the KS. Existing terrain product will still be new to new backers. It's like giving away free product samples except your customers are paying for them!
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: $100-125 is quite a high starting point for a game with a retail price of $50, so I do wonder quite how much extra will be in there for that
but I do approve of the single pledge level as they really, really do need to solve their warehouse issues
I thought the same thing, especially since it will only be around $40 once the online retailers get ahold of it.
A single, simplified pledge type isn't a bad idea at all, as CMON have shown with games like Blood Rage, etc. At $100-120 for the pledge for a RRP$50 game, they'll need a ton of stuff in the starting pledge to get people on board. Are there really enough Mantic/TWD fans to pledge 2-3x the retail price on Day 1 for the typical "Kickstarter starting box" that has like 6 sculpts and 30 models with the hope that it'll become actually worthwhile by day 15 or 30?
On top of that, they'll probably have free shipping for the UK and US as usual, but it'll really need some seriously solid value to make it worthwhile for ROW backers to go in as to date they haven't had the whole local distribution hub thing worked out that allows a solidly good-sized CMON KS pledge to cost $30 shipping to AU.
So while this might seem like a great money maker for mantic in kickstarter, I was just thinking it could be a real bust. Though the franchise is huge, look t the target market. Your probably not going to get a bunch of 30 something people who have more disposable income to just jump in to wargaming with this. Since it's based upon the comic series your main audience will be the comic collectors, who from my experience working and managing comic book shops (20 years ago mind you), don't have a lot of spare money to play with. Along with that you have mainly comic buyers and mainly gaming buyers, I am one of those rare geeks that did both, but eventually stopped buying comic books to have the money for minis. On top of that I figure that Mantic is looking for the big push from the kickstarter. Lets be realistic with this point in particular. Mantic have a very mixed track record with Kickstarter. Though all of their stuff has shipped relatively on time there has been a lot of open criticism in the comments section and very little follow up in those areas in the past. With that and the quality of some of the products that have been produced by kickstarter (trolls and basilleans ) some people will be put off and not take a second look. These are comic collectors who actually read, are usually internet savvy, and have a specific art style that they like so these better be dead on and not Mantic Almost. I think the only thing that could really draw attention to these and bring in the crowd would be a commercial during the T.V. show, which i really doubt mantic would spend the cash on.
On the other hand, regardless of what Mantic does they seem to have people jumping on their KS's----even folks who give them a good bashing on here. I predict it will do well.
I'm most likely to back if there is decent value for money with the Kickstarter. I think this may suffer from lack of addons though as they really help keep momentum through the slow periods.
I could see them doing a single red brick town or city addon, that shouldn't make the packing too complicated and would help promote the existing red brick range.
Let's be honest here. Matic's KS Crtitics are a vocal minority.
Even if Mantic screws up bad enough that 10% of its backer won't back Mantic any more it still leaves 90% that are happy. Those happy people are likely to back again, and tell their friends.
Dreadball 2,539 backers
Dreadball Extreme 2,482 backers
Kings of War 1,568 backers
KIngs of War 2 2,747 backers
Deadzone 4,306 backers
Deadzone Infestation 2,810 backers
Mars Attacks 2,753 backers
Dungeon Saga 5,963 backers
Warpath 3,355 backers
Walking Dead is a storngest property that Mantic has ever dealt with. You are looking at Wargamers, Zombie Enthusiasts, Comic Book Fans, and 12 million + TV fans, in the US alone.
If 1 in a 1,000 of them were to back we would be looking at 12.000+ backers.
Do I honestly think we'll get 12,000+ backlers ? No. Mostly because of the limited form of internet only and word of mouth advertising Mantic is using and the short lead time.
I would honestly be shocked if the Walking Dead Miniatures Games isn't succesful.
The first Zombicide game, a completely unproven property had 5,258 backers.
Zombicide:Black Plague had 20,915 backers
If The Walking Dead Miniatures Game could capture HALF the people interested in Black Plague. a spin off of Zombicide, it would still be wildly successful.
They will make millions for sure just based on the walking dead name. They will make even more depending on three further issues:
1: Sculpts of the TV show characters (how most got into twd)
2: quality of gameplay
3: quality/realism of the sculpts
I'd wager to say they would double theit profits just by using the TV show characters as well as the comic characters (they are similar but yet very different).
For this Kickstarter it is believed to be Comic Book only.
If it's wildly successful they may be able to pony up the cash for the TV license as well in a future kickstarter.
adamsouza wrote: Let's be honest here. Matic's KS Crtitics are a vocal minority.
Even if Mantic screws up bad enough that 10% of its backer won't back Mantic any more it still leaves 90% that are happy. Those happy people are likely to back again, and tell their friends.
Dreadball 2,539 backers
Dreadball Extreme 2,482 backers
Kings of War 1,568 backers
KIngs of War 2 2,747 backers
Deadzone 4,306 backers
Deadzone Infestation 2,810 backers
Mars Attacks 2,753 backers
Dungeon Saga 5,963 backers
Warpath 3,355 backers
Walking Dead is a storngest property that Mantic has ever dealt with. You are looking at Wargamers, Zombie Enthusiasts, Comic Book Fans, and 12 million + TV fans, in the US alone.
If 1 in a 1,000 of them were to back we would be looking at 12.000+ backers.
Do I honestly think we'll get 12,000+ backlers ? No. Mostly because of the limited form of internet only and word of mouth advertising Mantic is using and the short lead time.
I would honestly be shocked if the Walking Dead Miniatures Games isn't succesful.
The first Zombicide game, a completely unproven property had 5,258 backers.
Zombicide:Black Plague had 20,915 backers
If The Walking Dead Miniatures Game could capture HALF the people interested in Black Plague. a spin off of Zombicide, it would still be wildly successful.
If you look at the numbers you posted you'll see a drop after the first of each of those games.
Dreadball-Dreadball extreme=lost about 50 backers
Deadzone-deadzone infestation= lost about 1500backers
The only growth ones have been Kings of War, if you don't think the demise of Warhammer fantasy had anything to do with it then your mistaken. Even still it only gained 1200 supporters out of all of the warhammer fantasy people who had left the game.
Mars attacks barely beat out the KOW2 crowd, and that was a licence on a major motion picture with lots of star power.
Dungeon Saga did very well, but look at the product produced with errors in printing the wrong version of the game, and I believe it's the first of the Mantic KS that was considerably late (only a couple months, but the rest were relatively on time). They also got a huge bump from the boardgaming crowd, and that is a linked business where comics are not, neither is watching TV shows. There is some overlap, but I think they are overestimating how much of an overlap.
I think that they will make their goal, but that's to be expected. I don't see many KS that fund that aren't actually expecting much more than their base goal. If they have all these sculpts done already then their costs have already been covered, now they are looking for that great push to make a name for themselves and to really just get the word out.
They'll make $$$, I just hope they make enough so they can get a better hold on their design studio, and set an art direction for all future releases.
CptJake wrote: You do know they cannot use the TV show characters, right?
I'm not sure I get the continued mentioning of this. I read the comics and love the show. There's plenty of crossover, and with a bit of creative licence (well after this battle you've found a crossbow, and look, theres a new follower that wants to join with biker leathers) you get pretty much all the characters you want.
I could see the initial offering being a bit padded out with extra brick battlezones to compensate for the usual day 1 barebones box to get people to pledge.
I'd be okay with a few extra brick battlezones...
I could also see a few add ons making their way into the PM if there's enough demand.
Did they say for sure we won't be doing the usual add on routine? Last time Sodapop did Super Dungeon, they said something similar, and eventually put 2 add ons up (albeit they kept things very limited) due to the demand from backers. I can see Mantic adding some very set add ons if there's enough demand.
CptJake wrote: You do know they cannot use the TV show characters, right?
I'm not sure I get the continued mentioning of this. I read the comics and love the show. There's plenty of crossover, and with a bit of creative licence (well after this battle you've found a crossbow, and look, theres a new follower that wants to join with biker leathers) you get pretty much all the characters you want.
The reason I mentioned it is a couple of posts above mine some one said:
"They will make even more depending on three further issues:
1: Sculpts of the TV show characters (how most got into twd)
2: quality of gameplay
3: quality/realism of the sculpts
I'd wager to say they would double theit profits just by using the TV show characters as well as the comic characters (they are similar but yet very different). "
I was pointing out, correctly, that sculpts of the TV shows cannot be included. I suspect but do not know, any attempt at 'not-TV Show Characters' would get Mantic in trouble as both the comic and tv the license holders are probably going to be watching this, and I suspect the comic folks won't want to be involved in a lawsuit the TV folks would bring, and neither would Mantic. Creative license when it comes to actors' likenesses would not be something I would risk if I was hoping to turn a profit and maintain my license for the game.
It wasn't really targeted at you bud, I've just seen more than one person state that it's somehow a bad thing that we aren't going from the tv stuff, and I really don't see the issue.
I don't think it is a bad thing, I've posted links to companies making figures for several of the TV characters. I'm personally not familiar with the comic but am looking forward to what appears to be a modern skirmish game with some inclusion of Zombies. I'm a sucker for Zombie and modern skirmish gaming and rule sets.
Did they say for sure we won't be doing the usual add on routine?
Ronnie's exact words are:
"the current plan so that we don't have any of these error rates ..... actually 1 pledge, get all of that, get the lot, your done. We don't add to it we don't take away from it we don't mess with it that's what we are getting give us your address we'll send it to you"
Now it's not 100% set in stone and what Ronnie says isn't always known by other Mantic staff ahead of time but seems to indicate no add ons.
Something I missed yesterday and I just picked it up now while relistening to it they have a set backer number/funding total in mind and might end the KS once it hits that point regardless of how long is left to go - I wasn't aware that you can stop a KS once started (and collect the funding straight away as opposed to the cancel option) but they could limit the pledges available to say 12,000 and once they are gone that's it.
If they *can* lock it down early it would let them have the money sooner and get the ball rolling to help get it out the door in Q4 2016. The lockdown would be pretty high, said goals were planned out past what DS made.
Thebiggesthat wrote: It'll be their most profitable KS ever.
Senior Mantic people are talking in the millions.
Yeah. It's not going to do million(S?) if it's a miniatures wargame with inches and measurements rather than an "open up and play" boardgame unless they manage to get people pledging with no idea what they're actually buying into. The audience for TWD is very big, but they really should have gone for an accessible genre of game if they want to court the mass market. A "HeroQuest", if you will, rather than a "Necromunda".
CptJake wrote: You do know they cannot use the TV show characters, right?
I'm not sure I get the continued mentioning of this. I read the comics and love the show. There's plenty of crossover, and with a bit of creative licence (well after this battle you've found a crossbow, and look, theres a new follower that wants to join with biker leathers) you get pretty much all the characters you want.
You know that he was responding directly to this post, right? (my bold).
455_PWR wrote: They will make millions for sure just based on the walking dead name. They will make even more depending on three further issues:
1: Sculpts of the TV show characters (how most got into twd) 2: quality of gameplay
3: quality/realism of the sculpts
I'd wager to say they would double theit profits just by using the TV show characters as well as the comic characters (they are similar but yet very different).
Thebiggesthat wrote: It wasn't really targeted at you bud, I've just seen more than one person state that it's somehow a bad thing that we aren't going from the tv stuff, and I really don't see the issue.
The issue is money. We're assuming it costs more to get the license from a tv show than a comic book, despite the tv show being *based* on the book. fwiw, Cryptozoic's Ghostbusters boardgame was also based on the comic, not the original movie. (fyi, With Ghostbusters, Bill Murray and actors have the right to say if their likenesses can be used in a merchandising product, though I'd doubt this is the case for TDW. But it shows that there's more to licensing than money.) Who knows, though. Maybe Mantic will swim in cash from this license and eventually have tv sculpts. Dunno.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
DaveC wrote: Something I missed yesterday and I just picked it up now while relistening to it they have a set backer number/funding total in mind and might end the KS once it hits that point regardless of how long is left to go - I wasn't aware that you can stop a KS once started (and collect the funding straight away as opposed to the cancel option) but they could limit the pledges available to say 12,000 and once they are gone that's it.
If it's like the Forgotten King (?) KS, they'll just say, "We've hit the end of our SG's, but keep giving us money" and keep the funding period open until its scheduled ending. So anyone can still pledge until the funding period is over, but the backers won't receive more SG's. SG's aren't actually an integral part of KS.
While I'm optimistic, I did a quick search of TWD forums and haven't read any news of this game (although might have missed a thread). Unlike, say, Mars Attacks, there are already several TWD boardgames out there, as well as video games, not to mention a ton other merchandise. It's possible that Mantic's game may just get lost in the mountain of TWD merchandise that's already available. We'll see!
The only growth ones have been Kings of War, if you don't think the demise of Warhammer fantasy had anything to do with it then your mistaken. Even still it only gained 1200 supporters out of all of the warhammer fantasy people who had left the game.
Although warhammer had been stagnating for a long time, the big exodus to KoW didn't happen until the AoS release in 2015. The KoW2 kickstarter ended in december 2014, over half a year before AoS.
While Mars attacks might have been made into big movie once, it was ages since that was released, I haden't heard about that IP for several years until I saw Mantic was producing a Mars Attacks game.
No idea if it'll be as big as they hope but I do like to see they're going for a simple KS structure. There's way to much convoluted BS going on in many of the KS's in general with add-ons up the wazoo, a thousand pledge levels and millions of sculpts that'll take years to actually finish, if ever. It just end up with people eventually forgetting what they pledged for and losing intrest..
I think KoW's KS benefited from a combination of Warhammer's natural decline (The End Times were pretty blatantly a portent of big changes, and predated the KoWKS-2 by several months) and KoW's own actual strengths and growth in the time between KS1 and KS2.
The real big bump was of course AoS, but that would have been worth a much larger KS bump, I think.
The real influx of players started with 2nd editions release, not the KS 6 months prior. I've lost track of how many rulebook print runs have sold out (the first one sold out just on pre-orders I believe), but even Uncharted Empires has sold more copies than the 1st edition rulebook during its entire lifespan.
KoW fanatics has grown from 400 members a year ago to just shy of 3000 today, so just on the basis of Facebook fans there's more than double the 1200 new players.
ced1106 wrote: DS tiles were double-sided with the same artwork (!) and the tiles didn't fit the clips. I'm a fan of the license, not the company
Do you have Dungeon Saga? You'll see that is not true except for Black Fortress, which is the add on tile expansion pack. All of the normal quests have different artwork.
Yeah it was just black fortress with the 'inferior' single tile type. I mean I guess you could consider it a double tile in terms of durability... scuff up one side and the other is still good to go. But the tile quality has a lot of room for improvement, you only need to pick up a piece from battle systems to know what I mean.
I was an opponents of Kickstarters until one of the Mantic guys set me straight on FB with some interesting numbers.
The sell-through to retailers post-kickstarter is multiple times what the Kickstarter numbers are.
Dreadball is on it's 5th? 6th? printing run and they can't keep Kings of War rulebooks in stock (I heard 3rd print run?)
This KS is going to be a box game, but further expansions will be like they are doing for KoW - straight to retailer.
A reasonable compromise I would think.
Respectfully,
That Lee Guy
Automatically Appended Next Post: Start with your zombie survivor stereotypes (biker gangs, cult followers, end of world types, military, etc), and add in very specific ones from the comics ( Whisperers, those who wear the skin of the walkers) and I am sure the leaders will have certain command differences.
I wouldn't be opposed to a "board game" similar to Mars Attacks, which is how I hope they approach this. Stripped down, simplified, but via expansion rules can be fleshed out to a more realized actual skirmish tabletop game.
All we'd need is a PDF offering up those rules if Mantic was so inclined.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: I wouldn't be opposed to a "board game" similar to Mars Attacks, which is how I hope they approach this. Stripped down, simplified, but via expansion rules can be fleshed out to a more realized actual skirmish tabletop game.
All we'd need is a PDF offering up those rules if Mantic was so inclined.
This, and the small clam shell expansions of 3 minis plus their cards, sounds an awful lot like how FFG has approached Star Wars Imperial Assault, their skimish not-a-minis-game minis game
I like the sound of raiding other player's camps for supplies !
Sound like its going to be possible to go beyond the confines of the comic book, and I'm sure I'm not alone in imagining making some really horrible groups of very bad individuals
Will definitely be interesting to see how the campaign part pans out. Would be awesome with your units to gain a character (as happens in campaign type games) only for them to get taken out by a pack of zombies!
What I find interesting is that you think non-gamers will buy a miniatures wargame just because if has the logo of a show they watch on it.
Isn't this exactly the type of person GW now supposedly sells all its products to? Non-gamers who only buy because its Games Workshop.
The game idea sounds like a fun. I am confused how they are going to do a KS with a $100~120 pledge amount for a $50 retail game.
That could have up to 4 factions... Do I get to choose my faction or is it a starter set of all 4?
lord_blackfang wrote: I'm gonna go and say this won't be noticeably more successful than Mars Attacks. Talks of multiple millions are hilarious.
Would you care to take a wager on this?
You seem unable to separate what you, yourself, find of interest and what lots of other people find interesting.
What I find interesting is that you think non-gamers will buy a miniatures wargame just because if has the logo of a show they watch on it.
Its what happened with me with the lord of the rings magazines back as a teenager. Sure after a little while I feel out of the hobby again and didnt get back into it until I was watching lord of the rings and was reminded of when I used to paint LOTR miniatures as a teenager but it still happened.
lord_blackfang wrote: I'm gonna go and say this won't be noticeably more successful than Mars Attacks. Talks of multiple millions are hilarious.
Would you care to take a wager on this?
You seem unable to separate what you, yourself, find of interest and what lots of other people find interesting.
What I find interesting is that you think non-gamers will buy a miniatures wargame just because if has the logo of a show they watch on it.
Of course they will!
It's essentially the same reason why I purchased all of these items. (Be sure and scroll down for the full effect!)
You have an odd taste in shoes.
Spoiler:
I bought The Lord of the Rings miniatures, because The Lord of the Rings. I still am buying The Hobbit miniatures, because The Hobbit (ironically though, I'm more likely to use them in Dungeons & Dragons).
I bought Brother Vinni miniatures because they do miniatures that are clearly based on the look of Fallout, even if they're not official.
The only thing thats gonna stop me getting this TWD range is because I don't have a job right now. But that may change tomorrow.
lord_blackfang wrote: What I find interesting is that you think non-gamers will buy a miniatures wargame just because if has the logo of a show they watch on it.
Many would argue Cmon have been upping their game in ways Mantic has yet to try, but Mantic's boardgame plastics are qualitatively superior to Zombicide in one respect: in both cases the figures are monopose, but Mantic's are pre-assembled multi-piece (in the case of Mars Attacks, Dungeon Saga) vs. Cmon's one-piece casts. When a figure has to be castable in one piece, that really restricts how it can be posed (which accounts for the often awkward Zombicide poses.)
I'm curious whether this will still be true for the Walking Dead, or if Mantic will decide to go full-on CMON-style by making the minis one-piece casts (to save production costs.) From the few minis I've seen so far, I can't tell yet.
Vermonter wrote: Many would argue Cmon have been upping their game in ways Mantic has yet to try, but Mantic's boardgame plastics are qualitatively superior to Zombicide in one respect: in both cases the figures are monopose, but Mantic's are pre-assembled multi-piece (in the case of Mars Attacks, Dungeon Saga) vs. Cmon's one-piece casts. When a figure has to be castable in one piece, that really restricts how it can be posed (which accounts for the often awkward Zombicide poses.)
I'm curious whether this will still be true for the Walking Dead, or if Mantic will decide to go full-on CMON-style by making the minis one-piece casts (to save production costs.) From the few minis I've seen so far, I can't tell yet.
Actually, i received my zombicide black plague box just after new years and at least 1 survivor is multipiece... the redhead peasant girl. Who knows for the 2nd wave coming in feb.
THE WALKING DEAD: ALL OUT WAR – FIRST GAME DETAILS
JANUARY 11, 2016 CHRIS THE WALKING DEAD 5
Last week on the blog Ronnie shared his story on how we acquired the license for The Walking Dead – this week we explore the game. Stay tuned for more information on the rules and miniatures, starting with how Walkers work tomorrow.
The Walking Dead: All Out War Miniatures Game is the tactical head-to-head game set in the walker-strewn Georgia countryside where everyone and everything is trying to kill you.
In The Walking Dead: All Out War, each player controls their own group of survivors made up of popular characters from The Walking Dead storyline, such as Rick, Shane, Michonne and many more.
Each of these survivors is represented by a finely detailed plastic miniature that can be painted in your colour scheme of choice. It also comes with a character card highlighting their game stats and unique abilities, which can be upgraded with a selection of weapons and equipment.
The game is played in and around Atlanta and the surrounding American suburbs, and contains a gaming mat and a selection of barricades, abandoned cars and supplies to give it that authentic The Walking Dead atmosphere.
Your survivors move across the board using the measuring stick included with the game, and you’ll use the terrain to block Walker routes and sneak up on opposing survivors, or raid enemy camps for supplies.
During the game, you will fight a bitter battle for resources against a rival group of survivors – but be careful not to make too much noise, as you’ll draw the attention of the Walkers who roam the streets and fields.
The Walkers are controlled by an AI system developed specifically for this game, and also means that you can play the game solo.
Enemies are all around you, and danger lurks around every corner.
In this game, YOU are the Walking Dead.
Do you have a burning The Walking Dead: All Out War miniatures game question? Leave it in the comments in a blog this week and we’ll answer it in a Question and Answer session on Friday. Check in tomorrow to learn more about how Walkers work.
Sign-up to The Walking Dead: All Out War Miniatures Game Newsletter to stay up to date with all the latest news and gossip on the game.
Like the Mantic Games Facebook page for your chance to win a limited collector’s edition ‘Lucille’ – the fearsome weapon of the tyrannical Negan.
lord_blackfang wrote: What I find interesting is that you think non-gamers will buy a miniatures wargame just because if has the logo of a show they watch on it.
Well, they sure buy this crap!
Spoiler:
@judgedoug: Thanks!
No zombie sexdolls yet? I rather would like to see a resident evil miniature game, more different types of zombie creatures.
i guess follow up releases in the walking dead would revolve on enemy survivors.
lord_blackfang wrote: What I find interesting is that you think non-gamers will buy a miniatures wargame just because if has the logo of a show they watch on it.
Well, they sure buy this crap!
Kinda the point - someone buys every random piece of crap (presumably). Hardcore collectors will buy everything they can get their hands on. Minis gamers will but their miniatures game, but a minis game is pretty niche compared even to a boardgame of the Mars Attacks/Zombicide type. I can't help but feel something like MA/Zombicide or even Imperial Assault (boardgame with optional advanced "miniatures game" rules added on) would have had more of a mass-market appeal. I wish them all the best, but I really don't see a million dollars here, let alone multi-millions. Don't get me wrong - I'd love to be wrong on this, I guess we'll see how it pans out.
Speaking of zombie sex dolls, zombie burlesque is a thing. One of my facebook friends is heavily involved with Dead Hooker's Ball and other adult cosplay events focused on the undead. I don't quite get it myself. If Mantic manages to get their message to a crowd that devoted, millions might end up on the table.
I'm just glad Mantic picked up a license I care about even less than Mars Attacks. Maybe this time I won't have to pledge that dollar.
Not liking the sound of card terrain and 2D counters for things like cars, if there aren't going to be any add-ons.
Even Mars Attacks had the option for 3D everything, the (now discontinued, never actually made it to retail) resins were brilliant.
Hopefully they prioritise making the card components 3D as a priority for early stretch goals, I'm really not fussed about getting all 120 minis, just want a basic set with a few different gangs to pick from and solid, good quality terrain, if it doesn't look realistic, I might as well buy the board game.
Terminator genysis made that mistake and ended up looking pretty bad with paper mat and a couple of card barricades.
Terrain has to be done well or not at all, so many games that need it, skimp on it. Sometimes it's even essential for board games, played ghostbusters recently and that's one game that would have been made a whole lot easier to play with some actual terrain rather than confusing red, yellow, dashed red and orange "block los/ doesn't block los, blocks movement, not los, blocks los not movement" lines scribbled over the board.
I think I agree. I mean, I'm going to have enough terrain that I won't need what comes with the game to play the game on a full board of city/whatever....but for the product to be strong on it's own I think some kind of 3d terrain would be really beneficial. Obviously we all know you can hunt around for reasonably priced 1/43 scale cars and they're almost perfect... but people who buy the game just because its TWD are less likely to have that gamer-macguyver thing going on.
Even if its card... if its more paper craft like the recent Infinity stuff, shipping container paper boxes, same would *almost* work for cars but ehh. But flat and counters/tokens would be very meh.
It's a very difficult balancing act for the people designing the game. Obviously terrain is the much better option if possible (and this kind of game really requires it), but it looks like they are going for a low price and high sale volume, which you're not going to get if its selling for £70-80.
Hopefully there will be stretch goals for terrain (in fact would be very surprised if there isn't).
The playtest picture they posted on Facebook doesn't show much Terran - there are no buildings in this set up, 4 cars though. No idea if this typical or not.
Mantic Games
Wrecked Cars and Barricades are the basics. we have some other ideas, too.
1 · Hide · 1 hour ago
The infinity packs are what $15 msrp? Comes with a mat, 4 6x4" or so buildings and 6 shipping containers. I know they mostly want scatter but that's cheap enough to out an equivalent into the box, though paper craft cars are trickier go design and build sooo...
Also the accessory type sprues from ma and deadzone.. Either reuse the MA set or make a new one... Even if no cars.. The barricades would be much better than paper.
I think it sounded like they weren't planning on much height at least initially/core concepts wise. More about managing cover than finding high ground. I think it makes the zombies a more present threat when you can't simply go over their heads or lock a couple of doors.
Hopefully doors and roofs are at least included in an extra rules section If not core concepts.
DaveC wrote: No measurements in inches not grids they just used what they had on hand for that set up including a DZ mat
Won't measurement pretty much kill off the boardgamer interest?
Also, someone compared the components to the Terminator Genysis game, right? I hope Mantic doesn't cheap out like that. TG the BoardGame is so ridiculously overpriced for what's in the box that it's hardened my heart against Warlord and made me think twice about wanting to get into Gates of Antares. I'm worried that Mantic will gain wide exposure with TWD only to throw it away by delivering disappointment.
I use my dz mat for inches all the time, they just cut the concrete like they do sidewalks, or it was prefab pieces out in place. Definitely inches though.
But you won't need to know that. There be range sticks for slow zombies, walking, and running, I believe. Hopefully this is one of those reasonable games that doesn't bother putting ranges on guns in such a small area.
I'm good on terrain with Battlesystems. So, the only thing I'm really going to care about here is that there be a character creation system. I don't want to have to be saddled with only being able to play TWD characters. I know it's a TWD game, but I would like to play using some of my more colorful figures in my collection over the regular characters.
"range bands" or sticks seem a good half-measure to introducing non-minis gamers. It, in essence, worked for X-wing which ditched the measuring-tape stigma with casuals, and games like A Song of Blade and Heroes have been very, very well received with simple, pre-measured movement tools.
'Being bitten slowly drains the victim's health over time', just how complicated are the injury mechanics going to be? I figured with even as few as 4-5 people on a team, the most tracking they'd want to do was healthy/injured/dying/dead or something. I guess if there aren't tooo many people, or if they make a good way to track it.
Terminator genysis made that mistake and ended up looking pretty bad with paper mat and a couple of card barricades.
Honestly, I feel biggest mistake Terminator Geneysis made was the price point. There wasn't enough in the box to justify the price.
D&D Castle Ravenloft, Temple of Elemental Evil, Wrath of Ashardalon, The Legend of Drizzt Board all $65, have 40 miniatures, more sculpts, thick cardstock gaming tiles
Descent: Journeys in The Dark Second Edition 46 miniatures, more sculpts, thick cardstock gaming tiles $80
Zombicide 71 mniatures, fifteen different scuplts, thick cardstock gaming tiles $89.99:
Dark Vengeance, 49 miniatures, more sculpts, $110
Dungeon Saga, by MANTIC, 23 miniatures, 3D Terrain, cardstock Gaming Tiles $80
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) The viewship numbers are way too large to hope for 1% to buy this particular piece of licenced merchandise - or indeed any specific SKU of licenced merchandise. Do you expect that 1% of Star Wars fans bought either of these?
Mantic have a very mixed track record with Kickstarter. Though all of their stuff has shipped relatively on time there has been a lot of open criticism in the comments section and very little follow up in those areas in the past. With that and the quality of some of the products that have been produced by kickstarter (trolls and basilleans 
