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Post by: CptJake
A simple track on the character card would work. Move a marker (like the Zombicide level tracker) a step each turn after bitten to track current health. After X turns the track shows 'dead' and at X+1 it shows Rotter.
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Post by: .Mikes.
Looks like the tests at least are played on a 2x2 area. i hope there's a way to extend that.
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Post by: Daggermaw
 DaveC wrote:The playtest picture they posted on Facebook doesn't show much Terran - there are no buildings in this set up, 4 cars though. No idea if this typical or not.
Mantic Games
Wrecked Cars and Barricades are the basics. we have some other ideas, too.
1 · Hide · 1 hour ago
Looking at this photo does not get me excited about this game and I previously was. I hope the size of that table and amount of terrain is solely for playtesting during the early stages of development.
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Post by: Pacific
That's definitely the danger of showing WIPs over finished studio photos of stuff.
Even though actually most player's experience of the game will be unpainted with shoddy terrain, we all like to imagine that it's going to look exactly like those studio shots on the box !
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Post by: pongo50
Battle System's KS terrain will help.
But it will not be available until the end of the year.
KS delivers in September.
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Post by: keltikhoa
 pongo50 wrote:Battle System's KS terrain will help.
But it will not be available until the end of the year.
KS delivers in September.
This is going to be a KS as well, and has yet to actually start. I put the odds that this ships before the Battle Systems terrain at VERY low.
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Post by: TheAuldGrump
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:Speaking of zombie sex dolls, zombie burlesque is a thing. One of my facebook friends is heavily involved with Dead Hooker's Ball and other adult cosplay events focused on the undead. I don't quite get it myself. If Mantic manages to get their message to a crowd that devoted, millions might end up on the table.
I'm just glad Mantic picked up a license I care about even less than Mars Attacks. Maybe this time I won't have to pledge that dollar.
Putting the Romance back in Necromancy.....
Every year the city where I live has zombie kickball.
The first several years it was a flash mob... now... it is sanctioned.
*EDIT* On topic, maybe some of that resin MA terrain can be ported over to TWD as a stretch goal....
And so far, the miniatures for this are looking really, really good.
The Auld Grump
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Post by: Grot 6
Are these going to be shoddy mantic restic, or are they going to go hard plastic this time?
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Post by: CptJake
 Grot 6 wrote:Are these going to be shoddy mantic restic, or are they going to go hard plastic this time?
I don't think thy have said, but I would guess plastic similar to the Mars Attacks figures.
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Post by: adamsouza
Considering Mars Attacks and Dungeon Saga were in plastic, and they are expecting a much higher volume with Walking Dead, I'd say it's a safe bet it's in plastic.
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Post by: Alpharius
Not sure if that 'answers' the Grotsters questions though.
Weren't Mars Attacks and Dungeon Saga both 'board game plastic' and not HIPs?
As HIPs is often what many of us gamers 'mean' when we ask about "Plastic"...
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Post by: Azazelx
MA and DS were also quite different in practice. MA being closer to the softer, FFG plastic, while the DS stuff is much harder, though much more prone to some horrible warping.
Yeah yeah, heat them bla bla. Do you think the BGG or the wider market (if they're aiming for $1m+) are going to heat-treat their models?
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Post by: GrimDork
I really don't imagine they'll do HIPS for this if they're expecting non gamers to pick it up for the IP. The DS/Mars attacks material has really come along. After you do the hot water fixing the Dungeon Saga stuff is really nice. I just cleaned up the Orc Warlord dude and I could barely find mold lines to clean. There were a few that were harder to get to, but they were very slight and mostly safe to ignore.
@Az, perhaps Boardgamers or newcomers would not do so, though suggesting it in the rulebook/pamphlet couldn't hurt... the DS minis are really quite nice and so far they've been the most receptive to hot water bending of the things I've used it for.
HIPS would probably be great for wargamers but I expect them to be single part (or preassembled multi part) boardgame plastic.
The info so far has mentioned something along the lines of 120 sculpts across the range, if we were talking HIPS that would seem unnecessary.
Anyway, just speculation, we'll have to wait for official word.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Am I the only one not particularly impressed with the DS plastics?
I mean they're ok, but nothing great imho. I was more impressed with my DBX stuff to be honest.
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Post by: Azazelx
I think the sculpts are very good, but I'm not too impressed with the plastic as far as miniatures go. Then again, as I said during the KS, people needed to bear in mind that we're not getting "high quality miniatures" but "boardgame miniatures" and temper their expectations appropriately. If so many of them weren't badly warped on arrival (i.e.: better QA in the Chinese factory), I'd probably have been impressed.
Grim - you know as well as I do that.. what's the saying? "That Dog Don't Hunt." If they want it to be a success or (as I suspect) a gateway project for mainstream to the Mantic wargaming brand they'd be better off with the softer Mars Attacks-style plastic. Where the warpage on the models isn't nearly as common nor as ridiculously bad. It's lighter on detail for us wargamers, but again - mass market.
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Post by: GrimDork
Or whatever they did for DBX. I think those were the hardest of the three we've been mentioning to clean... but if you aren't going to bother cleaning the mold lines (and most of them arent that bad anyway) as a boardgamer/nonhobbyist would do, they were probably the straightest of the three with the most definition. Well.. I mean DS is close the same or better, haven't had *that* close of a look... but overall the DBX was still pretty crisp and the mold lines weren't bad either, with less 'bent in half please heat treat'.
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Post by: JoshInJapan
I haven't been cleaning the Dungeon Saga minis I've been working on, and only a few have needed hot water straightening. The material seems pretty ideal for this sort of game.
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Post by: overtyrant
Only had 1 model from my DS that needed the hot water treatment. DS material is fine, just seems to be the vocal minority thats not happy with it.
On the other hand the rest of the box I wasn't happy with, tiles were to thin, clips (which i was strangely excited for) didn't fit the tiles, rulebook was a mess, miscellaneous item's looked cheap and nasty....
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Post by: Pacific
Thought the DS plastics were OK.
Have to be honest though having painted both I would rank the Zombiecide black plague minis above it, some of the nicest board game minis I have seen in that pack.
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Post by: Azazelx
overtyrant wrote:Only had 1 model from my DS that needed the hot water treatment. DS material is fine, just seems to be the vocal minority thats not happy with it.
On the other hand the rest of the box I wasn't happy with, tiles were to thin, clips (which i was strangely excited for) didn't fit the tiles, rulebook was a mess, miscellaneous item's looked cheap and nasty....
I should take some photos. Maybe I got a bad batch of add-ons. The core game stuff wasn't as bad, but still suffered from warpage, but some of the extras.. sheesh!
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Post by: overtyrant
 Azazelx wrote:overtyrant wrote:Only had 1 model from my DS that needed the hot water treatment. DS material is fine, just seems to be the vocal minority thats not happy with it.
On the other hand the rest of the box I wasn't happy with, tiles were to thin, clips (which i was strangely excited for) didn't fit the tiles, rulebook was a mess, miscellaneous item's looked cheap and nasty....
I should take some photos. Maybe I got a bad batch of add-ons. The core game stuff wasn't as bad, but still suffered from warpage, but some of the extras.. sheesh!
I wouldn't of orderd any of the extras if I knew Mantic were going to vist Poundland for them!
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Post by: Bioptic
Not that it's an "excuse", but human-sized Zombicide models are 35mm+, whereas Mars Attacks & Dungeon Saga were more or less exactly 28mm by my recollection. Bigger models means less warping and better details. Journey: Wrath of Demons can attest to this with its near-Inquisitor scale models and lovely deep detail!
I don't recall the warping being especially bad on the DS models, but because of the more "realistic" proportions I recall ankles being the most bent part, which resulted in some...interesting monster poses.
From the description in the blog, it looks like Mantic are trying to keep WD roughly in scale with their other models, but "chunkier" presumably to resist bending.
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Post by: Azazelx
I should clarify - the DS models I got in my expansions were more badly warped than in my core game sets. The point of me stating this here isn't actually to have a piss and moan session, but to state that perhaps MA plastics might be a better choice since the warping seems a lot less severe than the DS one.
I can imagine some real "WTF is this gak?" reactions if mainstream TWD fans opened up their boxes to find some of the models severely warped (and half of them overall of them doing an odd dance with one leg in the air for some reason...)
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Post by: scarletsquig
Can confirm that the Mars Attacks plastic warped less (pretty much not at all, I recall Edwyn's sword and not much else), but also had less detail on some sculpts (Martians bad, Novs Vira awesome - perhaps it took some time to get the casting right?).
I hot water bent my Dungeon Saga minis (and fully painted all of them), but in the cold weather after a few weeks they've mostly all bent back to their original warped positions, either partially or entirely. :(
The casting quality and whether or not you get warped casts is very random, and this is why some people are raging, other people are happy with it, and both are right. About a third of my set required some work, and most of the large ones did as well (my trolls are some of the worst ones in fact, so the point about thicker models doesn't always hold up).
I'd rather have poor casting quality than warped minis at this point, especially after discovering that hot water is only a temporary solution (I could hot water bend them again, but really don't want to have to do that to painted minis constantly).
Some hard plastic sprues with one-piece minis would be amazing, could do a big zombies one and then release one per gang with extra weapon and equipment options (still one-piece minis, just things like add-on hands with different weapons or weapons/ gear to add to the mini). Clip them off the sprue in advance if scaring casuals is a concern.
Alternatively, some actual QC could take place at the Chinese factory. It's restic all over again, the early restic minis that Mantic had (Revenant Cavalry, Warpath Corp etc.) were fantastic, almost no mould lines or warping at all. But then as soon as the factory secured the deal with Mantic their quality dropped like a stone. There is a way to consistently get good non-warped casts, it just takes a little more time and attention, but from the factory worker's perspective they're getting paid $50/day to make cheap McDonald's toys or something for rich westerners so who cares?
I think the solid base with the mini attached to the base was a good idea for Mars Attacks, it prevented a lot of the worst kinds of "mini with one leg in the air, other bent at the ankle" warping that happened with Dungeon Saga.
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Post by: Necros
Most of my DS minis were perfectly fine. I had some warping, but really how hard is it to dunk a model in a hot water to fix it?
My minis also had very few mold lines, and those that I found were easy to clean up. There were a few though that I didn't see pop out till I primed and started painting, but that was still an easy fix. Before this my last big PVC KS game that I got was Sedition Wars, so I was really expecting the worst.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
I'd say nearly a third of all my Dungeon Saga is warped.
So bad to the point I boxed the whole thing back up and have set it aside, the amount of time it would take to fix everything is going to need an entire day at least. There's just so much wrong with their poses I haven't had the heart to even try the game out yet.
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Post by: Azazelx
I'm with Highlord in having a large amount of stuff warped and also having packed my stuff away to the side for now. I don't think it'll take a full day, but it's going to take a few hours at least, and I don't have the time or patience to deal with it right now.
Seriously though. If Scarletsquig says there's a problem with one of Mantic products, then you know it's not just other people like me being a pack of whinging witches. I'm more concerned with hearing that they RE-warped... that gak is a deal-breaker. I might have to dig one out to heat-treat myself and see what happens now.
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Post by: heribertovalle
As a sculptor for that game, I'm looking VERY forward to having those on my desktop. I was surprised when they announced the game, mostly because they hadn't told me which game it was for (I was just doing Walking dead minis for skybound)
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Post by: Necros
aw that sucks.. I wonder if I just got lucky, or if you guys just got real unlucky.
The one that was warped the worst for me was that super tall knight guy with the spear. it was bent almost 90 degrees at the edge of his hand. I just dunked it in hot water and was able to bend it back. In most cases it was just a sword blade or something like that that was bent, I just stuck a mug of water in the microwave till I started seeing bubbles, dunked the bent part in, and in most cases I saw it just straighten itself out and fix itself, I didn't have to manually push things around on any of them except for the spear guy.
To be honest though, I haven't checked every mini. I just have been working with the heroes and I only opened up 1 bag of undead, orcs and demon guys, the rest are still in the bookboxes. I'm also taking them off the square bases and giving them round warmachine bases since I have tons and I'm probably going to be using them more for my own skirmish games. The round bases still fit on the board tiles good though and they look a lot nicer 
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
If you don't heat a warped part all the way through it can bend back as the bit in the middle is still 'set' in the wrong position (bigger minis will be especially prone to this)
so if the mini gets a bit warm (eg sitting in the sunlight, or in the boot of a car) the outside layer softens again and the still warped inner core will bend the whole thing back into the wrong shape again
so give them a nice long heat treatment rather than just a quick dip
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Post by: GrimDork
Probably a case where you should use almost boiling hot tea style water too, huh?
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Post by: monders
"We're the plucky underdogs. The final product doesn't matter, it's all about the Kick Starter campaign!".
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Post by: lord_blackfang
 scarletsquig wrote:Can confirm that the Mars Attacks plastic warped less (pretty much not at all, I recall Edwyn's sword and not much else),
My MA stuff is pretty bad. Most gun barrels and crooked and minis wobble on their warped bases. Dunked it all in hot water 3 times, it bends back within a day.
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Post by: Pacific
 heribertovalle wrote:As a sculptor for that game, I'm looking VERY forward to having those on my desktop. I was surprised when they announced the game, mostly because they hadn't told me which game it was for (I was just doing Walking dead minis for skybound)
Ooh right, well firstly from what we have seen you're an extremely talented sculptor, they look fantastic !
Secondly, have you got any more goss or any more pics you can show? 
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Post by: Guildsman
 lord_blackfang wrote: scarletsquig wrote:Can confirm that the Mars Attacks plastic warped less (pretty much not at all, I recall Edwyn's sword and not much else),
My MA stuff is pretty bad. Most gun barrels and crooked and minis wobble on their warped bases. Dunked it all in hot water 3 times, it bends back within a day.
Ugh. What a deal breaker. Glad that this info is getting out before the campaign starts. If I pledged for the campaign and got warped minis that kept bending back, I'd be furious.
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Post by: heribertovalle
 Pacific wrote: heribertovalle wrote:As a sculptor for that game, I'm looking VERY forward to having those on my desktop. I was surprised when they announced the game, mostly because they hadn't told me which game it was for (I was just doing Walking dead minis for skybound)
Ooh right, well firstly from what we have seen you're an extremely talented sculptor, they look fantastic !
Secondly, have you got any more goss or any more pics you can show?
Not unless I want to actually not get any more work! But you should be getting previewed some characters soon. The game has VERY varied body types on the minis that I'll tell you. and that's pretty cool.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
hmm... the thing I'm most curious about is will there be things on different sized bases? Any idea in that regard?
To this day I'm still sad I don't have a zombified elephant for Fear & Faith. Would love to see zombie animal, even though they aren't really part of TWD lore.
Also, my Mars Attacks stuff was really nice compared to my Dungeon Saga figures. I had a total of 2 warped figures (the Nova agent ladies standing on one leg).
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Post by: adamsouza
https://manticblog.com/2016/01/15/14980/
THE WALKING DEAD: SOMEONE WITH CHARACTER…
The survivors of the apocalypse are integral to both the story and the game in The Walking Dead: All Out War. As a player, you will take control of straggling groups of these wayward souls and fighting for their survival.
Every Character in the game will come with an associated Character card. This will list their name, abilities, health and role within a group. Let’s take a look at Rick Grimes – although please note that all of this is subject to play testing and may change.
Rick is a ‘Leader’ which is relevant for gang building, and also grants him a special ability. Once per game, he can distribute a randomly determined number of actions amongst the other survivors in his group. He has a points cost –fifty- for gang building, too.
The stats in the game show how good a model is at fighting in melee, firing a gun or defending themselves from attack. Each of these stats is represented by a coloured dice. The dice are six-sided, but specially marked to show different levels of skill – red dice aren’t as good as white dice, for example. Rick has a white dice for all three stats – making him a good all-rounder.
Each survivor in your gang also has a nerve level. As the fighting gets fiercer and more survivors fall, or more Walkers arrive, characters may become panicked. The game uses a Threat Level, that is modified by events and the state of play. This can either be ‘All Quiet’, ‘Low’, ‘Medium’ or ‘High’. Rick’s Nerve is high, so he will only become panicked under extreme circumstances – keeping a cool head the rest of the time.
Some characters have special rules to represent unique abilities or character traits. Rick’s is ‘Blood Ties’. If Carl Grimes is in the same gang as him, and is removed as a casualty, Rick gains a bonus to his attacks for the rest of the game – fitting if you’ve read the comic in which Carl is injured and Rick looses it towards his assailant.
Finally, each card shows a character’s health, using survival points that are tracked throughout the game and are removed each time the survivor is hurt or bitten. They also have Pack slots, which shows how many different items they can carry – we’ll be covering these later.
What Characters are you looking forward to playing – what abilities would you like to see?
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Post by: DaveC
The Walking Dead: All Out War Miniatures Game FAQ
From Mike
Q: What materials will the figures be? Will they be hard plastic multi part kits or will they be the bendy plastic currently being used in Dungeon Saga?
A: The Walking Dead: All Out War miniatures game is designed to be very easy to get into.
They are single piece plastic miniatures made out of the same material as Dungeon Saga.
Stewart has spent a lot of time perfecting the sculpts and the material choice. They are bigger and chunkier than the Dungeon Saga miniatures, partly to prevent bending, partly to make them easier to paint. Other models of this size in this material that we’ve had through have excellent detail and are very solid.
Q: How big does the game scale up to? What is the projected model count per player and the amount of zombies needed?
A: The game will scale up as big as you want it to. It uses a simple points cost system for miniatures and equipment, and so if you want to play a 50 point game, 100 point game or 500 point game or beyond, you can.
You can add as many additional mats and walkers as you see fit.
A starter game will have 2-4 figures per side, and we reckon a standard game will be 6-10 figures per side.
Q: You have said that this is going to be available by the end of the year, how much of the game and figures have been completed ready for production?
A: The rules are all but complete and there will be a public playtest set released in February.
The miniature contents of the core game have been completed and approved by Skybound, and we hope to have renders of all the miniatures in the range released to the public by the end of February, with everything ready to go into tooling shortly after the Kickstarter.
We are finalising the graphic design and art with Skybound too.
Q: How many people have you got proof reading the rules?
A: A rigorous editing process will be undertaken with 5 internal editors, plus we will have a public playtest. Finally, our translation partners will also review the rules as they translate it – a process we found incredibly useful during Dungeon Saga.
Q: Is the game similar in play mechanics as Deadzone and Mars Attacks or is it a completely different system?
A: It is a completely different system.
wd07_16
From Andrew
Q: can’t wait for this game to come out, I know it’s based on the comic version, but with such great characters like Daryl being a TV character only, will he feature, will you be able to create your own character(s)?
A: We chose the comic license because of the incredible variety of characters it offered us. There are many interesting and exciting characters in the comic that do not appear in the TV show. This means that whilst we aren’t able to do fan favourites like Daryl from the TV show, we have plenty of cool characters, fun Walkers and exciting equipment that will more than compensate! Just wait until you see the comic version of the Governor!
We are currently working on some simple rules for making up your own characters to use in the game too.
Q: When is it coming to kickstarter?
A: February.
From Johann
Q: You mention ‘The game is played in and around Atlanta and the surrounding American suburbs, and contains a gaming mat and a selection of barricades, abandoned cars and supplies to give it that authentic The Walking Dead atmosphere.’. Will these be models (plastic or resin) or cardstock as depicted above? If so, do you have any plans on releasing actual scenery pieces to use in the game? And what about buildings? Do you have any plans for actual kits? Kind regards.
A: The scenery in the base game is very simple 2D cardstock with top-down art – all a gamer has to do is pop it out of the card sheet. We hope to release a separate scenery kit that will make these 3D.
Regarding buildings, we already have a range of suitable 21st century buildings that can easily be put into the Walking Dead.
From Bookawar
Q: Is the “board” necessary to gameplay, like in Deadzone, or just for decoration? Also, what are the recommended dimensions of the playing area (e.g, Deadzone is 2′ x 2′; KOW is 6′ x 4′; TWD is ? x ?)?
A: The board is not necessary for gameplay and purely for decoration, although we were adamant that a mat needed to go into the game to define the boundaries for people who wanted it. It’ll stop you sneaking out of the player area without your opponent noticing! The artwork on it also enhances the game by giving it that Walking Dead atmosphere.
T he mat in the boxed game is 20” x 20” (52cm by 52cm), so a little smaller than the 2’x2’ used for Deadzone. Like Deadzone however, you can add multiple mats and w e hope to add different designs– so you can fight over the Green Farm or the prison in settings that make sense!
From International Man Of Mystery
Q: Who is the author of this rule set?
A; Mark Latham, who worked on the English language version of Batman: The Miniatures Game among others.
From Brence
Q: So will you always play as a band of survivors from the show or will these Characters only add to your own “generic” warband? In other words will you mostly build a group of characters starring in the show or will these be akin to special characters and add to your self made warband of “regular people”?
A: Every miniature that we create will be a named character from The Walking Dead comics – from famous faces like Rick and Shane to lesser known character such as Derek and his band of scavengers. You are however able to arm your miniatures with weapons and equipment however you like, meaning that you can customise your band so that they are truly yours. Of course, there’s stopping you renaming your miniatures either.
In addition, we will include rules for creating your own characters that you can drop into the story and fight alongside Rick and Michonne.
From Fomorion
Q: Will there be a campaign system with scenarios within the game, where the characters will gain XP, new skills and loot, after each battle?
A: We definitely want to include this in some way. First and foremost we will have a set of narrative scenarios that you can play if you don’t want a standard game, and these will take you through the story, with the characters changing and gaining new equipment as time goes on. As for a standard campaign system, we want to include one, but we will be keeping it as simple as possible to stick with the accessible theme of everything else in the game.
Most characters will have alternate character cards to represent them at different times in the story, so this will be a key way in which they progress.
The Walking Dead – Glenn.
From Hudson
Q: Soooo…no co op?
A: The game features rules for solo play, and there is no reason why you couldn’t split a band of survivors between you and a friend, or several friends, and try to beat the game co- op.
From Owesome
Q: Oooh, does the license also include the Telltale Games characters?
A: Who knows what the future may bring! If there is enough demand, we will talk to them about bringing Lee and Clementine into All Out War.
From Rikus
Q: only two players game or more?
A: Most people will play the game 1v1 but there’s nothing stopping you splitting the characters with a friend or friends to play the game!
On translations
From Ivan
Q: Great working by mantic. But you want to arrives for all público. Can you think to translate for more públic un the kickstarter? Spanish, French? If mantic translate it for the cwf Will be great and more and more spanish People come to baking the proyect.
From David
Q: Hello. A question about translations. ¿Have any plan for a spanish translation of the game? If the answers is “yes”, the translated game will be avalaible for backers or only when released to stores? Thank you for your time.
A: Regarding translations, the game will only be available on the Kickstarter in English.
We require a distribution partner to offer a translation of a game – we are working on French, Spanish and German distribution deals at the moment – and that means that the translated game will only be available at retail stores in those territories.
Final Question – please note that the next answer includes a spoiler for the early part of the comic series. Stop reading if you don’t want to know more!
Rick_Shane_003
From Joe K
Q: I am not up to speed on the Comic series, but “All Out War” had 4 factions? Survivors, Hilltop, Kingdom and Saviors? Are those the ones we should expect to see in the game?
A: Further down the line, yes. For now we are sticking to the earlier parts of the story – there are almost 100 issues before you meet any of those groups. For our initial range we hope to cover the story opening in Atlanta, and then expand out to the farm, the prison, and Woodbury. The Governor is the first real antagonist and new “faction” that the characters encounter, but there are still changing loyalties and small skirmishes before that point, so there are plenty of ways to play.
For example, if ***SPOILER ALERT*** Shane hadn’t been killed so early in the story, the Atlanta group may have been split, and you could play battles pitting Rick against Shane. There will be very few true loyalties.
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Post by: Barzam
Character creation confirmed! That's great news. That means that I can put my WGF survivors to use. It also means that I should be able to make a military cleanup crew if I want. Now, I just hope that the mats they're going to making can link up with their existing Mars Attacks ones.
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Post by: CptJake
 Barzam wrote: Now, I just hope that the mats they're going to making can link up with their existing Mars Attacks ones.
Seems unlikely as the sizes are different.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Sounds like they will be too small, 20inch x 20inch for this, but 24 x 24 for deadzone or mars attacks
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Post by: Albino Squirrel
I'm disappointed that it sounds like generic character creation is pretty much an afterthought, and the game is geared towards playing as named characters. I would be much more interested in having my own band of survivors. Not very interested in, for example, having Rick get killed every other game. Possibly by another Rick.
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Post by: NTRabbit
 Guildsman wrote: lord_blackfang wrote: scarletsquig wrote:Can confirm that the Mars Attacks plastic warped less (pretty much not at all, I recall Edwyn's sword and not much else),
My MA stuff is pretty bad. Most gun barrels and crooked and minis wobble on their warped bases. Dunked it all in hot water 3 times, it bends back within a day.
Ugh. What a deal breaker. Glad that this info is getting out before the campaign starts. If I pledged for the campaign and got warped minis that kept bending back, I'd be furious.
I had a few that were warped at the ankles, and the bent sword, gave them the heat treatment to fix them and they've stayed fixed, nothing bent back.
About 1/3 of my Dungeon Saga minis were either warped in some way, or incorrectly glued to the base (facing the wrong way). Not had a chance to fix them yet, but not anticipating any trouble.
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Post by: Aeneades
Newsletter was just sent out. Majority of content was reprinting of blog posts but it did have this -
Next Week
An exclusive miniature preview and a special The Walking Dead: All Out War miniatures game announcement.
So I guess the announcement is a date for the Kickstarter?
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
With the way some of those answers are worded, it sounds like we'll be going down the add on route.
Which I thought we weren't going to do, in order to keep things simple.
Curious...
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I'd think pushing the KS button before getting sculpt/render approval from their licensor would be a foolish move,
(even though I don't expect the hassle Prodos have had from Fox)
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Post by: Mymearan
That Glenn mini... ugh...
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Is that the one doing The Mario?
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Post by: DarkTraveler777
Oh, haha, god damn it! I haven't thought of that song in a long time.  Glen doesn't look to bad to me, except for the face. I can't tell whats going on with his eyes and nose. It is most likely the angle of the photo, but it kinda looks like his nose was bitten off.
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Post by: Mymearan
Haha! Holy crap that's some nostalgia alright...
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Post by: Guildsman
Ooh! I didn't realize Latham wrote Legends of the Old West! My club in high school loved that game. The rules were solid and flavorful, especially the campaign/progression mechanics. While I probably won't be able to jump in on the kickstarter, I'm suddenly much more interested in trying the game at retail. I just hope they iron out the warping issues. (No pun intended.)
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Post by: Gimgamgoo
I don't know why they've gone with 20" x 20" mats when both the Deadzone and Mars Attacks go with 24" x 24".
Why not go for the same size and allow a little compatibility.
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Post by: Azazelx
Unless it's related to the physical box size (10x10"?) I agree. And even then, I'm not sure why that decision would have been set in stone at this stage.
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Post by: BrizzleRob
Thinking. Logic. Mantic.
Together these words are mutually exclusive.
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Post by: privateer4hire
Azazelx wrote:Unless it's related to the physical box size (10x10"?) I agree. And even then, I'm not sure why that decision would have been set in stone at this stage.
Wouldn't the smaller size be cheaper for Mantic to procuret?
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Post by: Azazelx
Produce? Possibly. Although there's no "official, standard" size for boardgames, unlike DVDs or Blu-Rays or videogames, there are a lot of games that are 12x12. I'd imagine that production numbers and such would have as much of an impact on production price than a small variation of 2x2".
Perhaps they decided that 20x20 was a better size for the mass market dining table than 24x24? Then again, squares is a better choice for that table over inches, so who knows unless it comes from a Mantic Blog. I expect that Matt will be more tight-lipped about random things now than he has been in the past.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I wonder if the appropriate box for a 20 x 20 will fit in a cheaper postal band than a 24 x 24 ?
that might be a good reason for the change, especially as there's been plenty of push back since they started actually charging backers for it
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Post by: privateer4hire
Azazelx wrote:Produce? Possibly. Although there's no "official, standard" size for boardgames, unlike DVDs or Blu-Rays or videogames, there are a lot of games that are 12x12. I'd imagine that production numbers and such would have as much of an impact on production price than a small variation of 2x2".
Perhaps they decided that 20x20 was a better size for the mass market dining table than 24x24? Then again, squares is a better choice for that table over inches, so who knows unless it comes from a Mantic Blog. I expect that Matt will be more tight-lipped about random things now than he has been in the past.
Sorry I made a typo. I meant procure, as in it would be cheaper for Mantic to buy 400 square inches/mat than to buy 576 square inches/mat.
They need to make profit and I figured smaller mats would cost them less to buy from whoever is making that part of the game.
The mailer discussion also makes a great deal of sense. I know if your parcel goes above a certain size, costs start to really go up quickly for shipping.
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Post by: adamsouza
It's a minaitures game, not a board game, what does the size of the paper mat really matter ?
I'll be playing on a table with 3D terrain, and I'll likely never use the included mat, n o matter what size it is.
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Post by: privateer4hire
It isn't going to play ala Deadzone/Mars Attacks with marked off spaces?
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Post by: Azazelx
 adamsouza wrote:It's a minaitures game, not a board game, what does the size of the paper mat really matter ?
I'll be playing on a table with 3D terrain, and I'll likely never use the included mat, n o matter what size it is.
If it wants to be a mass market product, it's not going to be a standard miniatures game (and neither you nor I are the core audience it wants to reach).
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Nope, it will be in inches with free movement.
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Post by: Grot 6
That and the  support package that Mantic will not have when the game finally comes to fruition.
That's the worst critique I have about them. they come up with a great game, spend a gak ton on pimping the KS, then it comes out, and .... nada.
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Post by: privateer4hire
Grot 6 wrote:That and the support package that Mantic will not have when the game finally comes to fruition.
That's the worst critique I have about them. they come up with a great game, spend a gak ton on pimping the KS, then it comes out, and .... nada.
By support package, does that mean expansions? Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hmmm. I figured they were going for more of a board game option.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
privateer4hire wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hmmm. I figured they were going for more of a board game option.
You would think that would make more sense for a mass-market game designed to appeal to TWD fans that might not necessarily be tabletop gamers, but they've decided to go for the skirmsh wargame approach instead.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
there are already walking dead boardgames based of the tv show and comic https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/99079/walking-dead-board-game https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/99120/walking-dead-board-game so that licence may not have been available (if there was any degree of exclusivity), or even if it was there would be brand confusion (and neither game is that well regarded)
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Post by: Azazelx
Though DeadZone/Mars Attacks are "miniature games" that use the more "boardgame/entry-level friendly" mechanic of big squares.
They could use something similar as the basic rules, and then have inches, etc for the advanced rules. FFG have done vaguely similar things with Imperial Assault in terms of "Boardgame/Wargame" rules in the box. I mean, they're obviously going to do whatever they want, I hardly expect them to take any notice of what I think here, nor will our speculation here have any effect, but it's certainly a head-scratcher...
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Post by: Pacific
Orlando may have the right of it, might be that it's due to there already being a boardgames.
Personally I'm glad they've taken the miniature game and free movement route, aside from the commercial considerations
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Post by: adamsouza
Casual Gamers who buy a Walking Dead game because it's a Walking Dead game aren't going to care, or research, if it uses squares or inches for movement before buying it.
War Gamers will obsess over little details like that.
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Post by: Azazelx
They won't, but they're more likely to play it and tell their friends, etc if it's simpler. ergo, squares.
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Post by: ced1106
Good point, Orlando.
Palladium's somehow calling their KS'ed project a *roleplaying* game (Robotech RPG Tactics), since they evidently don't have the rights for a miniatures game. Rights can be messy and if Mantic needs to distance their game from boardgames by not using squares and the game's just as good or better, that's fine with me!
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Post by: MaxT
Random thought, but the licence may force them to not go squares. After all the difference between a board game with expansions and a war game is somewhat dancing on the head of a pin as it is, another company has the "board game" licence so there has to be some sort of differential outside of whether it says "board game" or "miniatures game" on the box.
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Post by: TwilightSparkles
Uses range templates similar to x wing , think there was 3 - sneak , walk , run. Can break up movement ( don't have to move in straight line for whole movement .
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Post by: Nostromodamus
 TwilightSparkles wrote:
Uses range templates similar to x wing , think there was 3 - sneak , walk , run. Can break up movement ( don't have to move in straight line for whole movement .
Ah yes, you're right, my mistake.
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Post by: Azazelx
X-Wing or SAGA-style range templates for movement is a good design move - about the best that they can hope for that straddles the two types of game while potentially being palatable for mainstream purchase. Much better than inches, centimetres or a tape measure for the mainstream (or BGG) market.
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Post by: TheWaspinator
Anything like the X-Wing templates is good. I definitely appreciate the streamlining they give to freeform movement.
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Post by: Pacific
Agreed - the templates used in both X-Wing and SAGA work very well!
Remove a lot of the ambiguity and I definitely think help for people who haven't wargamed before.
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Post by: Zwan1One
Pacific wrote:Agreed - the templates used in both X-Wing and SAGA work very well!
Remove a lot of the ambiguity and I definitely think help for people who haven't wargamed before.
I wonder if they will colour the plastics like zombicide? That might also be an advantage to first time players who aren't interested in painting yet.
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Post by: DaveC
The Walking Dead: All Out War miniatures are designed to be painted
With this mind each plastic figure is a single-piece sculpt. That means that you do not have to assemble any miniatures, they are ready to use right out of the box.
All of the figures are supplied in grey plastic, which really shows off the detail in each sculpt.
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Post by: CptJake
Koral needs to learn to keep his finger off the trigger and to wear a holster oriented correctly (it is set up for a left handed shooter).
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Post by: DarkTraveler777
Single-piece figures, I suppose that includes the walkers? I am okay with the human characters being single-piece, but it would have been nice to add some variety with the poses of walkers. But, with the plethora of zombie figures out there having a diverse horde won't be a problem.
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Post by: GrimDork
@CptJake what you say makes sense, but would the child inherently know these things?
Is that an ammo belt for shotguns or just some kind of loopy tactical belt with a lot of loops for stuff? Doesn't look like a normal belt.
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Post by: CptJake
 GrimDork wrote:@CptJake what you say makes sense, but would the child inherently know these things? Is that an ammo belt for shotguns or just some kind of loopy tactical belt with a lot of loops for stuff? Doesn't look like a normal belt.
His dad is a cop, daddy would teach him. I 'think' the loops on the belt are very oversized/exaggerated loops you would put bullets into like on a typical old west gunslinger belt.  Then again, maybe he is wearing a left hand holster on a shotgun bandolier belt... Maybe the Mantic reps can let us know. Edit: Seems the holster is screwed up as in the comic.  and the loops are supposed to be bullet sized.
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Post by: bound for glory
Albino Squirrel wrote:I'm disappointed that it sounds like generic character creation is pretty much an afterthought, and the game is geared towards playing as named characters. I would be much more interested in having my own band of survivors. Not very interested in, for example, having Rick get killed every other game. Possibly by another Rick.
maybe sent by the council of ricks? 
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Post by: Barzam
 CptJake wrote: GrimDork wrote:@CptJake what you say makes sense, but would the child inherently know these things?
Is that an ammo belt for shotguns or just some kind of loopy tactical belt with a lot of loops for stuff? Doesn't look like a normal belt.
His dad is a cop, daddy would teach him.
I 'think' the loops on the belt are very oversized/exaggerated loops you would put bullets into like on a typical old west gunslinger belt.
Then again, maybe he is wearing a left hand holster on a shotgun bandolier belt...
Maybe the Mantic reps can let us know.
Edit: Seems the holster is screwed up as in the comic.
and the loops are supposed to be bullet sized.
Almost Manti- er comic. Almost.
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Post by: ced1106
Great. "Highly collectible" single character packs.
Wonder how much of a TWD fan I *really* am...
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Post by: GrimDork
HMm. Now all they need is pack-exclusive upgrade cards (items, skills?) in each single. When the meta develops, you'll fine all kinds of reasons to need to get the 1-handed Rick pack because even though you like to run the Governor, Rick's 'expansion' comes with a unique leader ability that makes the Governor highly effective.
Then, and only then, will they be on the same level as FFG.
=/
Hopefully not though, really.
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Post by: Azazelx
ced1106 wrote:Great. "Highly collectible" single character packs.
Wonder how much of a TWD fan I *really* am...
Hearing things like that make me glad I've not gotten around to watching the series or reading the comics yet.
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Post by: ced1106
Well, the compendiums are a great value, and, hopefully, once you read them you'll realize what a great series this is. Also, hopefully, the OLGS will then have the TWD boardgame at a good price during a sale!
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Post by: Azazelx
I've got a huge stack of those new Dredd reprint hardcovers to read first. At least 10 volumes now... I'm more likely to get around to watching the show first. Probably better done that way to avoid "hey, he should't be doing that" moments...
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Post by: Nostromodamus
That mat is tiny.
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Post by: adamsouza
I'm more concerned with them saying that the game runs well with about 10 models per side and the starter set only has 6 survivors.
Let's hope the stretch goals include extra models.
$50 Game 20 models.
Kickstarter ALL IN suppossed to be between $125-$150.
I'm guessing we are buying the extra survivor packs with the extra cash.
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Post by: CptJake
6 survivors for a two player game seems to be pretty weak.
Of course they are only showing 18 figures as well...
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Post by: GrimDork
Contents may not be terrible for a $50 game especially if that's a rubber mouse mat thing, though don't appear to be phenomenal either. Rather curious as to what else they're going to show opening day to get people to pledge the hundred bucks or whatever.
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Post by: squall018
They will probably triple that amount of models (at least) by the end of the KS. How else can they justify a single 100$ pledge level for a 50$ MSRP game?
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Post by: ced1106
Azazelx wrote:I'm more likely to get around to watching the show first. Probably better done that way to avoid "hey, he should't be doing that" moments...
True. While the tv series goes in a different direction from the comics, it definitely has its "shouldn't* scenes. I hear Season 2 is particularly "shouldn't"! Automatically Appended Next Post: Could be to force confrontation to avoid a long game (at least long by casual gamer standards...).
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Post by: GrimDork
Deadzone was supposedly small to make the game claustrophobic.
If that zombie kill radius thing is as big as a 5" gw blast template then it would be nightly claustrophobic indeed!
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Post by: CptJake
The mat is sure to be paper in the retail version of the game. Maybe KS will get a mousepad type material as well as the included paper.
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Post by: Azazelx
adamsouza wrote:I'm more concerned with them saying that the game runs well with about 10 models per side and the starter set only has 6 survivors.
Let's hope the stretch goals include extra models.
$50 Game 20 models.
Kickstarter ALL IN suppossed to be between $125-$150.
I'm guessing we are buying the extra survivor packs with the extra cash.
Yup, I'd agree. Mantic's character price point via KS for their KoW/DZ/WP characters tends to run $8-10, so expect that to be inflated a little more in this for the KS price, being a licenced game. Say priced at "$10" ea in the KS bundle each for a bunch of blistered heroes/characters with stat card and a "RRP" of $15 or even $20 (Based on £10/ea). Maybe a couple of other things that seem like comparatively good value compared to pricey individual heroes (zombie packs or whatever). Plus postage added on, post- KS.
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Post by: overtyrant
For £35 that's a ok buy, for £70 not a chance is it going to be worth it. And if they front the current content's for £70 then this is going to struggle.... Oh and I see they are going to be using cards, this js Mantic so the cards are going to bd thin enough to blow your nose with...
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Post by: Mymearan
Who is the old man? Is that Rick?
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Post by: Thraxas Of Turai
I assume it is Rick, the card art has him with a beard though...
The initial set does seem paltry by Mantic standards so expect (some call them fake) stretch goals agogo.
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Post by: Azazelx
For $120-150 buy-in and a stated RRP of $50, it'll have to be an interesting set-up compared to the usual. Surely they'll have to start with a lot of what we'd usually call stretch goals in place?
Can they get away with asking $120-150 and saying "it'll be a great deal if enough of you just plonk your money down"? I'm not particularly interested in backing this campaign due to no engagement with TWD at this point, but I'm certainly interested to see how it all goes down.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
Maybe a healthy supply of red brick battlezones?
Limited edition grey brick KS exclusive battlezones?
At a loss as well trying to figure out how they're going to explain the price discrepancies.
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Post by: Aeneades
There are quite a few different products planned for launch / just after launch so I would expect the pledge level to include (before stretch goals) the base game, a group expansion (5 or 6 characters plus some an exclusive zombie to allow two players to field proper size groups) and several mini expansions (I remember them saying these would contain a big name character, small name character, exclusive zombie and some cards). Then stretch goals would build it up from there.
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Post by: overtyrant
Unless you have £70 worth of goods straight of the bat people who are not familiar or know how Mantic runs their KS will take one look and walk on by.
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Post by: Azazelx
That's why I expect that the KS bundle will start off with a fair few more characters "valued at $X each" and probably some of the Mars Attacks brick ruins. And some more walkers. Ten additional character models with their cards. Value them at $15 each (based on X-wing ship prices) and you'e added $150 of "value" to the KS. Core Game at $50, a 6-pack of walkers for another $20, add in a (renamed) Mars Attacks scenery upgrade pack (RRP $40) and you've now got $260 of "value" for the $130-150 buy-in.
If you think about it, it's not hard to come up with a bunch of additional characters. They're calling them "highly collectable", so that indicates a Pokemon attitude to selling them as individuals - probably with several waves of additional characters, beginning with a few on the game's release and then every month (or whatever the new release cycle is).
That'll be part of the pitch as well "get all of these characters well before they come to retail".
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Post by: GrimDork
There are supposedly upwards of 120 sculpts too...
In the range, not sure they'd all be in KS, supposedly some things will go straight to retail.
But I think we'll have 'just got out of hospital' Rick, and 'grizzled apparently missing a hand' Rick, and so on.
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
My only disappointment with The Walking Dead license is we won't see a lot of crazy style zombies that you tend to see in more fantastical takes on zombie outbreaks.
I do hope we at least see a bit of variety in zombie sculpt size and shape.
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Post by: Azazelx
OK, scratch "Pokemon attitude" and substitute "Hasbro attitude".
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Post by: bound for glory
I'm just kind of somewhat interested because my wife loves both the comic, which i think is lame(tho, tbh, the only comic i ever liked was judge dredd, which i've been a fan of since about '83)and the movie, which i think is stupid.
Having said that, this box set looks comical. mean to say, i would assume mantic would show its best effort, here.
If thats their best, LOL.
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Post by: Azazelx
I imagine that the price point is affected somewhat by being a licenced product. TWD is a lot more popular than Mars Attacks, so the licence fees would likely be a fair bit higher. I imagine that the limited number of models in the core box are a result of several factors - not wanting to overwhelm new "non-gamer" players with too many of their characters while at the same time having enough of them to allow for a relatively short game, so as not to be overwhelming with either time needed or rules knowledge. (Imagine picking up 40k for the first time as a casual non-gamer).
Related to that, there's also finding the minimum number of models you can include in the set and still have it potentially sell decently. Because the after-box sales "DLC" are where the gravy keeps on coming in...
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Post by: ced1106
 highlord tamburlaine wrote:My only disappointment with The Walking Dead license is we won't see a lot of crazy style zombies that you tend to see in more fantastical takes on zombie outbreaks.
Eh, just substitute your own hoard of zombies into the game! 
As for pledge pricing, I'm wondering if they're going to "put miniatures back in the box" like they did with Dungeon Saga, whose base pledge without the SG's was underwhelming for the $100 they were asking for.
I'd think that, while licensing increases the up front costs of the project, that these costs would be spread out over the larger number of units made over the lifetime of the boardgame product line. OTOH, FFG lost the StarCraft license to make the boardgame, because Hasbro wanted to make a Monopoly version, so... 
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Post by: adamsouza
GrimDork wrote:There are supposedly upwards of 120 sculpts too... In the range, not sure they'd all be in KS, supposedly some things will go straight to retail.
Pretty sure it wasn mentioned that the single KS pledge level was to include everything OTHER than the contents of the retail exclusive pack, and that you ware correct about the 120 sculpts number being thrown around. So, are we looking at almost 100 survivors to choose from ?
I also imagine they'll likely double the amount of survivors, and possibely zombies as well, in the main box before the conclusion of the Kickstarter
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Post by: GrimDork
Well remember the zombies. 120 sculpts and more than one of the main characters...sure. But I'm guessing at least half the sculpts are zombies. If not more.
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Post by: Aeneades
I would say about a third will be zombies rather than half as it seems a variety of human crew members is more important and I suspect we will be getting several copies of some of them (I believe I have seen one of the sculptors comment on at least a second, slightly older, Carl).
The core set definitely needs some new zombie sculpts as looks like only 2 for 12 zombies.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
And quite possibly the crew as zombies (depending on how the rules handle those who fall victim to the hordes of the infected)
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Post by: ArtIsGreat
Yes, zombivors that I can actually use, sounds awesome. I could get behind low cast ''amateur'' Rick crew, clean faced and innocent, and then higher costed grizzled, beardy, veterans. Handless, eyeless murder machines.
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Post by: Albino Squirrel
I like that interview where Ronnie says you have to keep buying the expansions so your gang stays competitive. At least he's honest, but the more I hear about this the worse it sounds.
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Post by: Cruentus
Albino Squirrel wrote:I like that interview where Ronnie says you have to keep buying the expansions so your gang stays competitive. At least he's honest, but the more I hear about this the worse it sounds.
Yeah, no thanks. If the zombies are good and cheap, maybe those are a buy. Otherwise, there are other rules to use, its a fairly crowded market.
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Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae
Could someone please update the OP with new info and photos like with the GW threads?
I'm scanning the thread for new stuff but can't find any.
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Post by: Azazelx
Albino Squirrel wrote:I like that interview where Ronnie says you have to keep buying the expansions so your gang stays competitive. At least he's honest, but the more I hear about this the worse it sounds.
Do you have a link to that? Automatically Appended Next Post:  Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:Could someone please update the OP with new info and photos like with the GW threads?
I'm scanning the thread for new stuff but can't find any.
Only the OP or Mods can do that, as far as I am aware.
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Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae
Albino Squirrel wrote:I like that interview where Ronnie says you have to keep buying the expansions so your gang stays competitive. At least he's honest, but the more I hear about this the worse it sounds.
No worse than Gamesworkshop. And a lot cheaper too.
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Post by: Albino Squirrel
Azazelx wrote:Albino Squirrel wrote:I like that interview where Ronnie says you have to keep buying the expansions so your gang stays competitive. At least he's honest, but the more I hear about this the worse it sounds.
Do you have a link to that?
Here: http://www.thewalkingdead.com/intro-tabletop-gaming-with-mantic/
See the answer to the last question.
Same link has a picture of the box contents.
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Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae
Cheers! 
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Post by: Azazelx
Ah - thanks! I'd read that interview, but obviously was paying less attention by the end of it. While I appreciate Ronnie's candor there, I'm not fond of that kind of design philosophy. (and yes, I know lots of others do it as well.)
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Post by: GrimDork
The 'grow your gang so it stays competitive' sounds like it could suck, yes... but it really shouldn't bother anyone who plays X-wing. Needing to buy a Falcon to have a crucial upgrade for my E-Wing is kind of... lame, but I've still done it. If the figures in the boosters are nice enough and there's enough game content included to justify the price... I'll live.
May color my appreciation of those unfortunate few upgrade packs that come along as sub par, and may get me buying a few less boosters than I might if rules weren't attached... but its nothing we haven't seen before.
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Post by: Grot 6
Going to be typical Mantic...
All gash, no substance, then they will drop it like a sack of gak for the next new cool kid kick starter.
I'm good. until we see some serious figures. Hope they don't suck.
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Post by: adamsouza
If the Kickstarter pledge gets me evertything, except the retail exclusive pack, then I'm perfectly fine with needing more than the starter set to be competitive.
Also, seriously, what miniatures or collectable game can you play and be competitive with just the starter set ?
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Post by: GrimDork
There is some thing about buying something on kickstarter and expecting it to be exactly what you want it to be and 100% ready to go from the outset. I dunno.
I assume there will be multiple retail packages, some will be things we get in the KS that don't come in the retail box game, and some will be the direct to retail packs that backers will also have to buy.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
from todays Walking Dead blog (reported on facebook)
The Walking Dead: All Out War Miniatures Game is launching on Kickstarter on the February 1 at 05:30 PT, 08:30 ET or 1:30pm GMT.
It closes on the February 29 at 15:59 PT, 18:59 ET 11:59pm GMT.
Shipping Wave 1 is expected to be dispatched in August 2016
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
I'm alright with having this start soon.
Need a KS to watch since most of the ones I'm interested in currently are either super low-key or finishing up this week as well.
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Post by: adamsouza
I'm too lazy to try and find the video where Ronnie mentioned it, but he said the single level of Kickstarter pledge gets you everything, except for the sutff they are reserving for the retail exclusive pack. He could have easliy said retail exclusive items, if there were plural.
I know they feel presssured to make something retail exclusive, so they can say they are supporting local gaming shops, but multiple retail exlcusive things just complicate things for them, retailers, and collectors.
We'll find out in a couple weeks either way.
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Post by: GrimDork
Yep, looking forward to actually seeing the kickstarter deployed. I think I talked myself out of Zombicide recently due to the sameness of the zombie sculpts so I'm kind of hoping that these are a bit more diverse. They already look a bit less cartoony which pleases my sense of aesthetics (nothing wrong with zombicide at all, just not my personal favorite zombies).
Kickstarter just in time for me to feed it birthday funds... excellent (in theory).
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Post by: Buttery Commissar
Just scrolled past this on FB:
https://manticblog.com/2016/01/25/15039/
KS 7 day warning.
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Post by: Aeneades
There is talk of 2-3 addon bundles now (at least I took them to mean bundles of a big box plus a couple of associated character packs but they also could have meant single expansion sets)
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Post by: DaveC
Yeah it looks the basic pledge level is for wave 1 with further waves as add on self contained expansions so this could cost $200+ all in by the end.
there will be one great value for money reward level for backers to pledge at – which will be shipped all in one box. It’ll have everything in the first wave of releases – so the game, the minis, lots of freebies and all the upgrades (as long as we hit those stretch goals!). With just one package we can make sure it is assembled accurately, with miniatures supplied in trays so that they don’t break or are missed from the packing, and other trays so everything has its place.
If the campaign goes really big (and that means we think it will finish right up there with our biggest ever campaigns) then we will look at 2 or 3 simple expansions which you will be able to add-on to your pledge. These will allow us to move into the later aspects of the storyline, introduce lots more heroes – and baddies
I like how they got around the solid windows in the Brick BZ by painting them as boarded up
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Post by: GrimDork
Hmmm I live D the single pledge level no addons. So yeah probably better than 200 at this rate.
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Post by: str00dles1
Keep churning KSes out, getting tons of money upfront even though they could easily do this game without a KS. The more mantic does, the more I hate them. Already a million companies that do modern zombies for pennis on the dollar.
Pass
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Post by: DaveC
Base pledge confirmed as $125 (on Facebook and the blog) there will need to be some serious kit in there from day one for that price.
EBs confirmed to
Mantic Games
January 25, 2016 at 6:30 pm
Main pledge is $125, but there is a strictly limited number of discounted early birds available too.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Expect $5-$10 discount for EB then.
I'm still very much not going to back, but I wish them luck on it!
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Wow, they're really going to need to show the value for that
(I wonder if it really represents $100 mantic price which was the initial price rumour plus $25 licencing fee)
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Post by: Tyr13
125$? Youd *seriously* need to put in some value for that to work out... I have a feeling this KS will go a bit like the MA one... :/
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Post by: Theophony
Enough hype train, show us a preview of whats in the kickstarter already . Including the fake stretch goals . I need to know wether to save my pennies or to buy more zombicide....
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Post by: Nostromodamus
 Theophony wrote:I need to know wether to save my pennies or to buy more zombicide....
Well with the latter you know what you're getting, you know what it's made of, you know it's good and you know you can get it right away...
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Post by: Theophony
 Nostromodamus wrote: Theophony wrote:I need to know wether to save my pennies or to buy more zombicide....
Well with the latter you know what you're getting, you know what it's made of, you know it's good and you know you can get it right away...
But think of the lost opportunity to complain about the KS being late, Mantic changing the material, the material being soft, the usual glues not working, warped items that reward themselves even after the boiling/freezing cycle and the inevitable being able to buy it from miniaturemarket.com for the same or less than suggested retail.
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Post by: Pacific
This is Mantic. I would be very, very surprised if there isn't more miniatures than you can paint in a year by the time that $125 boxset ships.
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Post by: scarletsquig
Looking forward to this, not sure about it shipping before Warpath though.
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Post by: GrimDork
Maybe part of their deal with Skybound? Surely there's pressure to get it out before xmas whereas they already have the monies for Warpath etc etc... They're also talking about only having the core stuff ship in the first wave so we may have a lot of that already set to go into tooling, who knows.
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Post by: Azazelx
Wait.. what? When is Warpath supposed to ship? (the models, not their schizophrenic rules).
And wow - Boosters a lot more than I expected them to be at £12.50/$20. I guess they could come with more than 1 figure, as a single figure with card for that price doesn't stack up well at all next to X-Wing.
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Post by: Theophony
I can see the e pansion a for this being "why did the plague happen"
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Post by: adamsouza
Theophony wrote:I can see the e pansion a for this being "why did the plague happen"
When Kirkman was selling the premise of the comic to the publisher, it was indeed aliens that caused the zombie apocalypse as a first wave to soften humanity up for invasion.
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Post by: GrimDork
I believe the expansions were supposed to be a main character, secondary character, and unique zombie sculpt. And cards for everyone that needs them and more items/whatever.
That's kinda what I remember. Could be hallucinating.
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Post by: Azazelx
That's a lot better than a single. I guess we'll see what they come out with in a week.
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Post by: Bioptic
It's still a lot of money for not very much! Zombicide sold 4 models for $20 (2 characters, 2 zombies) + profile sheets, but that was for Kickstarter-exclusive stuff. This puts it as directly competing with FFG Imperial Assault miniatures (blister pack of unpainted models and cards for £10-15). Walking Dead probably has some very rabid boardgamer fans, but I wouldn't imagine as many as Star Wars does.
Equally, who knows! Licenses are powerful. Exploding Kittens did $9 million off the back of the Oatmeal, and Walking Dead is bigger than the Oatmeal...
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Post by: GrimDork
Have we seen this model yet?
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Post by: Nostromodamus
"Miniatures pending approval"
Been there before...
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Post by: squall018
I don't think so, Grim. I've been following this decently close, and that's the first I've seen of her.
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Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae
Love that model. Andrea right?
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Post by: GrimDork
That's my guess but I dunno who's in the comics and who's not.
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Post by: Azazelx
Is that Z-Ronnie on the corner of the artwork?
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Post by: Pacific
Surely must be Andrea, she looks good!
.. This isn't anything to do with Fox is it? .. 
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Post by: Aeneades
It's approval from Skybound. I am pretty sure they will be much easier and quicker to get things approved than AvP approval from Fox.
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Post by: mattjgilbert
A lot is approved already. The text is just being cautious...
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Post by: GrimDork
Well after that whole not-whoever they were gonna do for Dungeon Saga that got made to disappear... I could see being cautious.
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Post by: mattjgilbert
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Post by: Pacific
GrimDork wrote:Well after that whole not-whoever they were gonna do for Dungeon Saga that got made to disappear... I could see being cautious.
What was that then for the uninformed? Or does no-one know?
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Post by: Thebiggesthat
125 usd?
So all the stuff possible then. Because you shouldn't buy anything from those mean people that run retail!
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Post by: GrimDork
I dint watch the show they were referencing s character from but I think it's fairly popular amongst various gamers. I'll just let someone else fill in the blanks because I never knew much about the show or character. Not enough to know the actresses name even lol.
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Post by: Thebiggesthat
Pacific wrote: GrimDork wrote:Well after that whole not-whoever they were gonna do for Dungeon Saga that got made to disappear... I could see being cautious.
What was that then for the uninformed? Or does no-one know?
Extra stuff promised was either moved to digital, changed without telling customers or just plain dropped.
Goal posts moved so much, Mantic moved from playing football in Nottingham to South America
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Post by: privateer4hire
Thebiggesthat wrote:125 usd?
So all the stuff possible then. Because you shouldn't buy anything from those mean people that run retail!
Please take that back. Mantic have made a renewed effort to support retailers.
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Post by: Thebiggesthat
By launching another Kickstarter?
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Post by: Aeneades
Pacific wrote: GrimDork wrote:Well after that whole not-whoever they were gonna do for Dungeon Saga that got made to disappear... I could see being cautious.
What was that then for the uninformed? Or does no-one know?
They had a stretch goal of Felicia Days character Codex from The Guild. I can't remember the name of the game but she had already stopped a character based on Codex appearing in another companies fantasy Kickstarter (it may have been Drakerys) and she took action against Mantic as well so they had to remove the stretch goal. At the time they said they would try to license the character but nothing ever came of it.
She keeps a pretty tight hold on her licensing (Dark horse have the comic rights to the guild and QMX the merchendice & statues). Felicia Day also appeared as herself as a playable character in the board game Dead of Winter for charity.
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Post by: agnosto
They obviously lack the funds to do this on their own, amiright?
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Post by: Aeneades
They are leaving out quite a few expansions that will be retail only so Kickstsrter backers will not get everything. They also usually have a deal so that retailers can get all the Kickstarter products at a bulk discount.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I suspect at least the basic order will have been put in with their factory before the ks starts so that retial orders can be offered to the various distributors and stores
(i'm sure the licence will say they have to release the gsme however the ks goes)
then when the ks comes in extra product will be added to the runs to go to backers, and more for retsil too)
so can they pay for some copies of the game without ks? yes
could they pay for 20,000 units (or whastever printrun 1 turns out to be)? probably not without taking too much out of the business (in case it's a Mars Attacks mild success) or taking out an expensive loan (they don't seem to have a lot of what bbanks etc like as security)
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Post by: DaveC
Interesting that Warlord games choose today to announce their Zombie tabletop skirmish game Project Z which will use the Wargames factory Zombies and Survivor kits.
The license alone will carry TWD but now they have competition that will beat them to the market and use HIPS miniatures.
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Post by: GrimDork
They need a new male zombie kit, the current one is not as good as the other three.
So they're just making a new rulebook to go with their miniature line? Cool.
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Post by: BrookM
Hopefully the rules can bought without having to buy more of those plastics then.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
DaveC wrote:Interesting that Warlord games choose today to announce their Zombie tabletop skirmish game Project Z which will use the Wargames factory Zombies and Survivor kits.
The license alone will carry TWD but now they have competition that will beat them to the market and use HIPS miniatures.
That's pretty awesome. Those kits are great.
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Post by: CptJake
And it means we'll get the bikers and the military set (which I have not seen yet.)
I approve!
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Post by: Nostromodamus
CptJake wrote:And it means we'll get the bikers and the military set (which I have not seen yet.)
I approve!
Just read that, awesome!
Retail release of a game by a company that makes great games and has a great HIPs miniature line with sprues packed full of goodies is much more appealing than yet another Mantic KS "adventure".
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Post by: GrimDork
Again the male zombies...found wanting.
WGF is making bikers and army dudes?
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Post by: Nostromodamus
GrimDork wrote:Again the male zombies...found wanting.
WGF is making bikers and army dudes?
Yup, bikers and army dudes.
I already have a couple dozen each of the men and women left over from other projects, and a gakton of zambies, will just need the rules!
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Post by: GrimDork
I just saw the news update, fairly excited myself.
Mantic seems to have really poor timing... There's almost always a nearly identical product coming out from another company when they run a Kickstarter. Well, maybe not nearly always..but more than once.
For me, these things are not mutually exclusive... I probably have enough warganes factory stuff to play their game so just rules and two new kits. And a month after TWD funds so not even totally simultaneous.
Even more call to skip zombicide for now.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
I wouldn't skip Zombicide if you have an interest in it. Co-op board game gives a very different play experience to a competitive skirmish wargame.
If you're gonna skip one, I'd suggest skipping TWD or Project Z, as they seem the most similar.
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Post by: GrimDork
I vastly prefer proper tabletop and dislike zombicide samey zombies though. I've got next to 100 dz/warpath zombies so volume isn't an issue. If I get to a place where I can actually play with regularity I would reconsider zombicide.
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Post by: TheWaspinator
Yeah, Zombicide is kind of a different thing if nothing else because it is cooperative.
The Project Z figures probably will have some crossover potential with Warlord's Terminator game. The non-zombies, at least, could probably work as Terminator resistance fighters.
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Post by: scarletsquig
Nostromodamus wrote:I wouldn't skip Zombicide if you have an interest in it. Co- op board game gives a very different play experience to a competitive skirmish wargame.
If you're looking for a co- op board game rather than wargame, Dead of Winter is much better than Zombicide (if only the game had miniatures rather than standees!).
With the TWD KS I'm going to throw $125 at it and then forget about it.
Mars Attacks already supplied me with a good amount of modern terrain to use, and I'm sure I can get some toy cars or something if they're seriously going with card counters for the game.
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Post by: GrimDork
Toy cars I'm finding tricky. I think 1/43 is the best scale but those are usually expensive as that seems to be the collector's fancy pants scale.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
GrimDork wrote:Toy cars I'm finding tricky. I think 1/43 is the best scale but those are usually expensive as that seems to be the collector's fancy pants scale.
I'm hoping that with all these post- apoc games coming out (TWD, PZ, TNT, Wasteman, etc.), someone might start making affordable vehicle wrecks.
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Post by: Polonius
Nostromodamus wrote: GrimDork wrote:Toy cars I'm finding tricky. I think 1/43 is the best scale but those are usually expensive as that seems to be the collector's fancy pants scale.
I'm hoping that with all these post- apoc games coming out (TWD, PZ, TNT, Wasteman, etc.), someone might start making affordable vehicle wrecks.
Armorcast makes a range of pretty affordable options:
http://www.armorcast.com/modern-terrain/wrecked-vehicles
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Post by: GrimDork
I like intact with detailed undersides. That way they can alternate as dead, flipped wrecks, and potentially working objectives/escape routes.
I still need to grab one of those ~8" diecast school buses too... Those usually aren't bad. Found one of those two section giant city buses for like $10 at Kmart, that ones fun for scenarios.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thanks for that armorcast link, I shall have to bookmark it and keep it in mind.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Cool, thanks Polonius!
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Post by: CptJake
WalMart usually has a selection of 1:43 cars at about $5-8 bucks a pop, often gas stations and dollar stores have some too. I've bought plenty and never paid all that much for a single one.
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Post by: Polonius
CptJake wrote:WalMart usually has a selection of 1:43 cars at about $5-8 bucks a pop, often gas stations and dollar stores have some too. I've bought plenty and never paid all that much for a single one.
If you wreck them and use them as terrain, scale can be pretty flexible as well.
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Post by: GrimDork
@CptJake I have heard this from other sources as well but had little local luck. It may be a localization thing, might not sell well hereabouts and thusly are not stocked as often. Or something, I can find bigger and smaller but rarely right inside that 'credit card trick window'. They did have a nice semi truck with working trailer that must have been within a hair of 1/43 but it was still kinda pricey. Automatically Appended Next Post: I have 4 wrecks from Mars Attacks, I need some intacts to fill out my board as objectives and escapes
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Post by: CptJake
A lot of the Disney 'Cars' cars are 1:43 and I've seen some really good re-paints/mods done to them,and again, you can find them on sale at WalMart and similar stores pretty cheaply too.
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Post by: GrimDork
I just trawled Amazon again. Found a few better options in the $7 dollar range. I haven't hit the order button yet but in my cart sits the WGF regular zombies box (not as good as the other kits but still fine I'm sure), a 5" dodge police truck, fire department ambulance, 8" school bus, USPS and Ice cream trucks. All for around 60 bucks which will be taken care of by a giftcard I've had languishing for ages. Could buy zombicide instead, but 5 metal scenery bits and 30 pose-able zombies is a nice alternative.
I think it will balance out well enough with the 6 cars and 1 SUV from my Mars Attacks collection...
Damn synergistic zombie games and enthusiasm...
I've seen the "Cars" cars and wondered if the eyes were raised or flat. Sounds like maybe flat.
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Post by: Alpharius
scarletsquig wrote: Nostromodamus wrote:I wouldn't skip Zombicide if you have an interest in it. Co- op board game gives a very different play experience to a competitive skirmish wargame.
If you're looking for a co- op board game rather than wargame, Dead of Winter is much better than Zombicide (if only the game had miniatures rather than standees!).
With the TWD KS I'm going to throw $125 at it and then forget about it.
Mars Attacks already supplied me with a good amount of modern terrain to use, and I'm sure I can get some toy cars or something if they're seriously going with card counters for the game.
I love DEAD OF WINTER but in no way does that game 'need' miniatures - I'd say they'd be wasted in that game.
Also, DEAD OF WINTER also has a decidedly NOT co- op thing going on...most of the time!
I do find WARLORD's timing on this one...curiously amusing!
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Post by: Taarnak
GrimDork wrote:I just trawled Amazon again. Found a few better options in the $7 dollar range. I haven't hit the order button yet but in my cart sits the WGF regular zombies box (not as good as the other kits but still fine I'm sure)
They really aren't that good. If you haven't pulled the trigger yet, I wouldn't.
~Eric
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Post by: GrimDork
Ehh, too late. Thanks for the warning, I do know they're not as good as the sets that followed. For 66 cents a pop, I think they'll be fine. I'll use them as corpses if I have to.
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Post by: judgedoug
GrimDork wrote:Again the male zombies...found wanting.
WGF is making bikers and army dudes?
There are new male zombie sculpts.
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Post by: GrimDork
What. I must have missed this. You have a link? My search-fu isn't working out today.
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Post by: judgedoug
You can see 'em in Warlord's announcement in the background of some of the pics.
Unreleased, just as the biker gang and US military.
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Post by: GrimDork
Ahh... well. That's cool. I'll have to get those too probably
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Post by: judgedoug
GrimDork wrote:Ahh... well. That's cool. I'll have to get those too probably
Close-up
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Post by: GrimDork
Yeah, I just looked at it myself. Definitely new male zombies to go with the bikers and soldiers. Cool, they look like they match the survivors and zombie vixens well enough.
Really excited to see this range.
Also, apologies for wildly off topic discussion today, although I think the WGF..or should we say Warlord now.. zombies would be a nice addition to anybody's TWD miniatures game
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Post by: judgedoug
GrimDork wrote:Yeah, I just looked at it myself. Definitely new male zombies to go with the bikers and soldiers. Cool, they look like they match the survivors and zombie vixens well enough.
Really excited to see this range.
Also, apologies for wildly off topic discussion today, although I think the WGF..or should we say Warlord now.. zombies would be a nice addition to anybody's TWD miniatures game
I certainly plan on mixing the two!
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Post by: GrimDork
Both kits will probably be quite useful for sprucing up any duplicate zombies from TWD game too
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
GrimDork wrote:I just trawled Amazon again. Found a few better options in the $7 dollar range. I haven't hit the order button yet but in my cart sits the WGF regular zombies box (not as good as the other kits but still fine I'm sure), a 5" dodge police truck, fire department ambulance, 8" school bus, USPS and Ice cream trucks. All for around 60 bucks which will be taken care of by a giftcard I've had languishing for ages. Could buy zombicide instead, but 5 metal scenery bits and 30 pose-able zombies is a nice alternative.
I think it will balance out well enough with the 6 cars and 1 SUV from my Mars Attacks collection...
Damn synergistic zombie games and enthusiasm...
I've seen the "Cars" cars and wondered if the eyes were raised or flat. Sounds like maybe flat.
The old WGF zombies are pretty bad. You might want to wait for the new ones. They were made around the same time as the Shock Troops, as an indication. Automatically Appended Next Post: Oops. Too late.
And clearly the preferred term is "Warlordgames Factory." Clearly.
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Post by: GrimDork
Ahh that makes sense, warlordgames factory, heh. I've looked at them I think they'll mix in fine for now.
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Post by: Theophony
I was considering this KS as I saw it's their version of necromunda with gangs and growth potential, but now with warlord and WGF....I can save myself a Kickstarter headache. Thanks Mantic
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Post by: scarletsquig
I see room for both.
TWD KS for a bulk lot of characters, Warlord for extra zombies and survivors.
Then play whatever set of rules is better or (more importantly) what actually gets played locally.
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Post by: CptJake
$125 for characters cast in board game plastic is a bit steep. I can probably source metal versions of anything Mantic releases from other companies.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Is anyone else seeing the big Page Not Found image in Mantic's latest facebook post?
It would be even better if Paige is the name of a Walking Dead character.
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Post by: .Mikes.
GrimDork wrote:Toy cars I'm finding tricky. I think 1/43 is the best scale but those are usually expensive as that seems to be the collector's fancy pants scale.
A guy from the Walking Dead Fanatsic FB page found these in Kmart Australia:
Which he did an awesome job on turned into this:
$7 a box apparently. I haven't been able to go in myself and see yet.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Unless the miniature is supposed to be an 8-year old, those cars are grossly oversized.
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Post by: PomWallaby
1:50 tends to be my preferred scale for these sorts of things. I think 1:40 is too big and 1:60 too small. I probably should carry a figure around with me to help scale the "scaled to fit in box" models. Hotwheels do forklift trucks I think might work, their 1:50 elite range look awesome (the ATeam van, Batmobile and a Delorean).
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Post by: .Mikes.
lord_blackfang wrote:Unless the miniature is supposed to be an 8-year old, those cars are grossly oversized.
Nope.
Or even better:
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Post by: Azazelx
To be fair, they've probably had this in the works since they bought out/took over distribution of WGF's stuff. Which puts it long before the Mantic TWD announcement or even their open day when it was secretly previewed. Makes sense to make an announcement - not somuch as a spoiler but to protect their own investment, especially if they have sculpted and tooled new male zombies.
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Post by: GrimDork
Yeah, it *could* be that mantic is the one trying to one up them by being out first. Well kickstarter g before warlord factory debuts at retail.
If I recall, they were planning on deploying the licence last year and ended up doing warpath instead because of logistics/license/complications...right? So I guess it could just be a coincidence.
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Post by: bubber
I bought a bunch of 1:43 from Amazon - got like 4 vehicles per set & cost next to nothing.
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Post by: lord_blackfang
Well, I stand corrected. And also understand why we destroy entire nations over oil prices.
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Post by: CptJake
1:43 is a bit big, but especially if you base your figures they look decent, especially for the price.
Here are a couple of my 1:43 vehicles with figures:
This is actually a resin truck, but it is the same size as some 1:43 stuff I have, I think it is based on one, armored up, then cast.
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Post by: scarletsquig
TWD will be somewhat heroic scale, so 1:43 should do the job nicely.
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Post by: TwilightSparkles
Just over an hour to go...... The big winner for me is this is preassembled , I have stuff I bought January 2015 because finding the time and weather to go outside and glue is difficult - not allowed to glue inside as the smell irritates everyone else!
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Post by: Bioptic
Any word on this? Was supposed to go live a few mins ago, but I know there can be delays on Kickstarter's end.
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Post by: Theophony
In for now with an early bird pledge. Still not seeing the value of this yet.
That retailer pledge is crazy  , Breaks down to $27.50 per for the same as the $115/$125 pledge as far as I can read it.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Terrible initial value, as expected.
Wonder if that will put off TWD fans who don't know how these usually work out?
Anyway time to break out the popcorn and watch the dog and pony show.
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Post by: Theophony
For all the bragging about 120 sculpts for this project it seams silly that they start us with twelve zombies (doubles of 6 sculpts)
I asked the important question of how well they scale next to a zombicide figure, and asked for a side by side photo.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
The retailer pledge doesn't seem to get the Atlanta expansion, sherrifs badge, dicebag and dice set
so (at present) $27.50 for a $50 retail value box
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Post by: Aeneades
Yeah. Definitely not $125 of products in there even at retail prices. Would estimate it be a little under $100. Stretch goals will fix it but still not good form.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
They're also charging shipping for each wave if they have to split it up.
WTF?
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Post by: CptJake
Folks are already whining for a Blaine figure in the comments section.
Another interesting tidbit, if it takes 2 waves to ship, shipping and handling fees will be added for each shipment/wave.
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Post by: Bioptic
I know that CMON has been going a little over the top with recent Kickstarters, by having final art for almost everything, sculpts for almost every stretch goal, and even production miniatures for a most of the base game. However...the prototypes here are really quite lackluster. Lots of silhouettes and duplicated art.
It also seems genuinely insane, to me, to include an expansion with the initial (overlvalued) offering and not include a third of the characters. As people have said, those not used to the usual Kickstarter trickery will be baffled/put off by the page as it stands.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
this is what they said p @ Aussie Ax3 - the pledge level will ship all in wave 1 and there is a postage charge for that.
If we get to the point where there is a wave 2 add-on, then there is a postage charge for that too.
so as long aren't getting add ons (which the way the value looks on this might well not be reached anyway) everything will be wave 1 and not attract extra shipping If they reach the stage of offering add ons then yes there will be extra shipping to pay
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Post by: CptJake
I'll bet my pledge value in US dollars they offer add ons.
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Post by: MaxT
Aeneades wrote:Yeah. Definitely not $125 of products in there even at retail prices. Would estimate it be a little under $100. Stretch goals will fix it but still not good form.
That's the concern. 125$ plus P&P x 2 (2 waves) is $155 for the USA, currently you've got base game ($50) and an expansion (lets say $35) MSRP. A KS exclusive dice bag and sheriffs badge is neither here nor there, but let's call that $15 MSRP. So $100, that with normal discounts is more like $75 retail. For $155.
Stretch goals are gonna have to more than double the current offering to just break even with retail, never mind get a discount for putting your money down 6 months in advance. Which they very well may do, Mantic do start low and add alot, but there's a real danger of having pledges that are only going to stick if those big extral value goals are met - if they're not, they'll start losing backers, which is a vicious circle.
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Post by: Black Nexus
@ Orlando - that's how it reads to me.
Pledge is Wave 1
Any add-ons in Wave 2.
@ Aeneades
No, it's definitely over $100. Base Camp, expansion, kickstarter exclusive figure, ks box, dice set and dice bag. Definitely over $115 to start with.
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Post by: Necros
In for an EB for now. I think the game looks good, and I liked my Dungeon Saga minis so I'm sure these will come out good too.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Mantic claim the pledge level is already worth it because of the KS exclusive items.
They sure do put a lot of value in that sheriff badge, don't they?
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Post by: Bioptic
The sheriff badge that you can buy with the Mantic Points you'd get by buying these things retail!
After Dungeon Saga, I really want to see what the packaging situation is here. It's sort of okay to have a tabletop warfare miniatures being delivered without packaging, but boardgames are designed to sit on your shelf, with everything you need inside. I'm sick of having all this stuff in cheap anonymous brown boxes.
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Post by: CptJake
Yeah, the badge may be of worth to hardcore Walking Dead fans, to me it is something that never gets used and likely gets tossed or given away. Obviously I am not the target audience for it, but for me it adds no value to the pledge at all.
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Post by: Psychopomp
Welp, thank goodness this isn't a Fallout license.
I think my money will serve me better in the Warpath pledge manager.
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Post by: CptJake
 Bioptic wrote:It's sort of okay to have a tabletop warfare miniatures being delivered without packaging, but boardgames are designed to sit on your shelf, with everything you need inside. I'm sick of having all this stuff in cheap anonymous brown boxes.
They already stated it will be tossed into a box, no retail packaging. Of course, they would also argue it is a wargame, not a board game. But I suspect the retail packaging is going to be pretty cool so waiting to get expansions via retail may be worth doing (probably get them cheaper too once shipping is factored in).
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Post by: Alpharius
I was hoping for something more than a 2" x 2" gaming area - unless that's something that is possible too, within the rules?
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Post by: BigOscar
Can't see the value in it at the moment, not if the base game is only going to be $50 retail (which is excellent value imo). The extra stuff so far looks well short of the extra $75. Obviously that will probably change as the KS goes, but you normally expect the initial pledge to be pretty much retail value, whereas at the moment it looks like they've bundled in a gakky dicebag and dice and are forcing everyone to pay retail for them.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
 Alpharius wrote:I was hoping for something more than a 2" x 2" gaming area - unless that's something that is possible too, within the rules?
It is more than 2"x2", it is 2'x2'
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But dat KS exclusive sheriff badge tho!
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Post by: CptJake
Mantic says no plan to upgrade the mats.
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Post by: BigOscar
I'm a bit curious as to how they are going to packed a 2 foot by 2 foot paper mat into a box and not have it be a creased mess with massive fold lines that won't lay flat?
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Post by: Necros
It said it comes with a collectors edition game box, guessing it's going to be a dungeon saga book-box kinda thing?
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Post by: Eiríkr
I'm pretty disappointed in this KS, both from the perspective of a potential tabletop purchaser and from that of a comic book fan.
The core game should be shipping with Rick, Carl, Shane, Glenn and Dale at the very least, as well as the usual zombie/antagonist characters. Derek doesn't even appear in Atlanta, he's much further on in the Alexandria arc - the other three I cannot recall appearing at all. I'm familiar with how KS works with regards to the unlocking of tiers, but man, it still seems like a completely missed opportunity.
Poor.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Is that Atlanta Walker SG just for 1 mini?
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Post by: Mymearan
I can't see this doing very well even if they up the model count significantly... it's even worse than Dungeon Saga was originally.
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Post by: MaxT
Is there any other wargame out there that uses 2x2 as a standard game size ? Some use that size for demo games like X-Wing and Guildball, but not for a standard game.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Mantic are asking why people are under the impression that the expansion is not "complete".
Well, maybe something to do with the blacked-out silhouettes that bear the legend "to be unlocked"...
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Post by: overtyrant
MaxT wrote:Is there any other wargame out there that uses 2x2 as a standard game size ? Some use that size for demo games like X-Wing and Guildball, but not for a standard game.
Bushido uses 2'x2' which is a stunningly good game (actually surprised Dakka doesn't cover it as the regular releases get mentioned on BoW all the time). But then depending on factions model count for each side is roughly 6. As I mentioned before they went with the regular KS format, I don't expect this to do particularly great, I'll be waiting for retail or one of Mantics sales.
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Post by: DaveC
Worth remembering this isn't even 2'x2' it's 20"x20"
Shane, Reggie and the walker make up a retail equivalent blister set £12.50/$20 for $50k funding that will be down to $15k by the mid point lull.
In for an EB for now but seriously underwhelmed by what's on offer. The 3D barricades and cars are a must for me to add value.I can't see this being $1 million + even with the license. I'll hang to the last day but Warlord are more likely to be getting the money instead.
Hmmm it looks like hordes of zombies aren't really a thing here (it really depends how many survivors you get for 150pts)
Each Walker is 15 points. If you and your opponent play a 150pt game, where you both take 150pts of survivors and equipment, you play with 150pts of Walker (i.e. 10). If you play a bigger game, you will play with more Walkers
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Post by: Nostromodamus
DaveC wrote:Worth remembering this isn't even 2'x2' it's 20"x20"
Their pledge graphic says 2'x2'.
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Post by: DaveC
Oh OK then Ronnie said 20"x20" in the BoW interview either they changed it or 20"x20" is close enough to call it 2x2
EDIT it's in the blog FAQ https://manticblog.com/2016/01/15/walking-dead-interview-ronnie-renton-faq/
The mat in the boxed game is 20” x 20” (52cm by 52cm), so a little smaller than the 2’x2’ used for Deadzone.
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Post by: MaxT
overtyrant wrote:MaxT wrote:Is there any other wargame out there that uses 2x2 as a standard game size ? Some use that size for demo games like X-Wing and Guildball, but not for a standard game.
Bushido uses 2'x2' which is a stunningly good game (actually surprised Dakka doesn't cover it as the regular releases get mentioned on BoW all the time). But then depending on factions model count for each side is roughly 6. As I mentioned before they went with the regular KS format, I don't expect this to do particularly great, I'll be waiting for retail or one of Mantics sales.
Cheers, i've seen that game before but didn't notice the table size. Thanks.
So it's not even 2x2. You're not going to be using hordes of Zombies simply because you can't fit many onto a 20"x20" while leaving any space for movement.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
Mantic just said rubber mats will be available at retail.
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Post by: Hulksmash
Meh, looking at it and even being a huge fan of TWD...meh.
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Post by: Siygess
Unless it's a 5" x 5" retail box, the difference between 20 x 20 and 24 x 24 is so negligible that I wonder why Mantic even bothered to opt for the smaller size.. unless they wanted to own the market on mats that can be used for the game..
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Post by: overtyrant
Pretty much this, and with the state of how Mantic KS arrives and things like QC and how missing pledges (my mate finally received his DS pledge the other day and it was all wrong and is still waiting on hus KoW pledge!) are dealt with they have lost me and my gaming group as KS backers.
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Post by: CptJake
You don't need ANY mat for the game. Just as you don't need one for any table top war game where you measure movement/ranges in inches. You can use any existing terrain you have.
The mat is being included to give those new to miniatures gaming something other than their bare table to play on. It is not a board game and does not use squares/hexes/zones.
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Post by: Alpharius
Ah, good point!
So table size can be more than 20" x 20".
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Post by: CptJake
Yep, I tend to use a table that is just shy of 3'x3' for skirmish gaming. I can set up my trailer park terrain set on it for this.
I can also set up my Stop-N-Rob, parking lot and streets for this as well.
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I'm not impressed by 'unarmed' character minis, especially ones posed as if they are about to be killed.
I know in the game they can 'be equipped' but who wants to use the unarmed character getting bitten figure as their little Mini Me in a game?
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Post by: Necros
I like 2x2 for small games, that's the size I use for Blackwater Gulch demos. It's good for around 5 models per side. But 3x3 is much nicer for larger games.
This will give me some incentive to finish painting my secret weapon street tiles Only done 4 so far, long way to go ... :/
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Post by: lord_blackfang
If they do add-ons a la carte, sign me up for a crate of loot markers. Otherwise, whatevers.
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Post by: CptJake
Folks whining about not getting mouse pad mats are not remembering the fact Mantic is going to charge extra shipping for add ons. Even if they do offer them as an add on, knowing they WILL be offered retail means you'll be able to pick them up at an online retailer. And likely get them cheaper and assuredly with cheaper shipping than you will get during the KS.
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Post by: Thraxas Of Turai
TWD is a favourite of the other half, so this should pique her interest. Am more than happy to wait for retail on this. Given the short lead time until delivery are we safe to assume that a lot of the minis/components are in/on the cusp of production already? Those slow boats from China take an age go arrive.
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Post by: Nostromodamus
CptJake wrote:knowing they WILL be offered retail means you'll be able to pick them up at an online retailer. And likely get them cheaper and assuredly with cheaper shipping than you will get during the KS.
Much like the rest of the stuff in the KS...
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Post by: CptJake
good point.
But you won't be able to get that spiffy badge retail!
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Post by: highlord tamburlaine
I want the loot crates.
Nothing else has truly grabbed me.
First time in a very long time that I didn't instantly jump on a Mantic campaign.
A shame.
Then again with some of the other offerings that Kickstarter will have this month, I guess I shouldn't complain to much.
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Post by: BigOscar
So when it gets to $200k, that's when we start actually unlocking things instead of just random things they deliberately held back? Weird way of doing it tbh, they may as well of just set the initial funding goal at 200k, given that these supposedly unlocked figures were part of the initial offer. Guess it doesn't make much difference either way, just feels a bit cheeky
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Post by: Theophony
and I just took a chainsaw to the kitchen table to "customize" it for when this arrives. Better get the wood glue out before the wife gets home  . Maybe a tablecloth too.
I have an EB, but will probably drop it towards the end, just not enough here to justify it over the hundred other wants. Loot counters look decent enough, but could be scratch built.
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Post by: Tyr13
Unless they seriously crank up the value, Ill be waiting for retail, I think... well see how it goes.
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Post by: Aeneades
The $200k unlocks make the pledge level up to where I would have considered it at being reasonable value for $125. I am sure a lot of other people felt the same and haven't backed due to perceived poor value.
Even with that in mind I am surprised how slow this campaign is moving considering the big licence involved.
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Post by: Compel
I've set this one as a reminder. Probably not going to go for it though.
I've yet to play a game of Dreadball Extreme that isn't a demo game.
Not used any of my Dreadball Season 4-6 teams either.
Haven't gotten round to playing Dungeon Saga yet either, for that matter.
And... I've gotten kinda fed up of watching Walking Dead.
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Post by: Dark Severance
Aeneades wrote:Even with that in mind I am surprised how slow this campaign is moving considering the big licence involved.
License can only sell so much on it's own. Personally I'm of the opinion that the TV license has a larger audience than the comic audience which contributes to the slowness. Add in that zombie games are about a dime a dozen right now and over saturated in the miniatures market. Then add that these are miniatures, its a miniatures game, not really a board game. All those factors are going to limit it and growth even being a big license.
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Post by: Pacific
I like the idea of using this as a base for other stuff, using the rules to set having your own gangs and survivors taking each other on. And love the idea of an AI controlled zombie, even while you're trying to take out the other team (which is kind of true to the core comic/show concept of people being more of a threat to each other than the zombies).
Not mega value at the moment but we know being Mantic this will change, sure by the end it will be a good deal for what really is the going cost of a decent, component-rich boardgame these days.
When will the next season of TWD start, will it be a crossover with this?
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Post by: Aeneades
The Walking Dead TV show is a separate licence so that won't be any crossover with the show (the show is back for second half of current season in just under 2 weeks so they could buy a tv advert to show during show but think very unlikely due to massive cost involved).
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Post by: ced1106
Aeneades wrote:Even with that in mind I am surprised how slow this campaign is moving considering the big licence involved.
If you do a search on all the TWD merchandise that's already available, you could easily argue that it's a flooded market. I mean, there's a plastic cup of Daryl with a straw in the shape of a crossbow sticking out of his, not to mention the hydrocephalic computer sitters: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_1_12?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=walking+dead+merchandise&sprefix=walking+dead%2Caps%2C343
Myself, I find it irritating that they're going to spend 10K on a tertiary character that's long dead.
I think it's just cheaper to buy the Todd McFarlane action figures. They don't even need painting!
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Post by: PomWallaby
Got my $1 pledge in for popcorn. Nothing catches my eye despite having 144 issues of the comic.
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Post by: Azazelx
Well, I didn't expect great value off the top, but I did expect a lot more than this. You know, I expected at least $115 of value. And yeah. "Limited Edition Dice Bag" and "first player marker" don't quite cut it.
That's without getting into wave shipping (what happened to one, and one only pledge level - no addons!?) Ah well, I'll just popcorn this one, but without the $1 fee to spam my inbox. I'm sure all of the relevant/amusing stuff will be in this thread, after all...
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Post by: Theophony
@Azazelx, you mean like the guy complaining about Zombicide being 6+ months late (I think he forgot to fill out the pledge manager ) and he trusts Mantics customer service .
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Post by: carlos13th
Yeah I think this will either be a skip or wait for retail for me. Unless something major changes.
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Post by: JoeRugby
Dito
Retail wait for me, if they eventually do a £1 pledge I might grab that encase I change my mind but not going in on this one this month.
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Post by: Azazelx
It'll be interesting for sure. I had a feeling that this one would be less for "us" as established and jaded gamers and more of a (hopeful on Mantic's part) entry point for new blood to gaming via Mantic's products.
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Post by: ced1106
 Azazelx wrote:Well, I didn't expect great value off the top, but I did expect a lot more than this.
Yep. Pretty much the same as Dungeon Saga. In the end, DS turned out to be a good value -- sorta. Maybe. Eh.
Gee. Who's looking forward to painting Scavenger 1 and Scavenger 4? I'm *really* hoping Scavenger 2 makes it into the campaign. Scavenger 3 doesn't do it for me but I hear he's really popular among new gamers.
http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Derek_(Comic_Series)
(Oh, and Reggie looks to be the UNNAMED escaped prisoner on page 1, issue 1 of the comic series. He has exactly ONE close-up panel and ONE word balloon in the book: "I ain't goin' back! I'll die first!" You remember him, right?)
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Post by: Necros
I haven't seen it mentioned, maybe I missed it .. It says the minis are gray plastic... is that pvc? or HIPS? or ABS? or some other cocktail?
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
whatever dungeon saga was according to mantic, some sort of pvc blend I think
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Post by: Aeneades
Azazelx wrote:
Gee. Who's looking forward to painting Scavenger 1 and Scavenger 4? I'm *really* hoping Scavenger 2 makes it into the campaign. Scavenger 3 doesn't do it for me but I hear he's really popular among new gamers.
I was a random Savior in issue 107 so if they ever get that desperate for characters I might get a chance to appear in miniature form. Walking Dead wikia hasn't been kind enough to designate me a number though.
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Details of the next stretch goal are up now. The graphic says the $225k stretch goal is an Amy and Andrea double pack.
The text at the top of the Kickstarter page actually advertises the $225k goal as Andrea, Amy, Carol and Sophia which I suspect is a mistype with Carol and Sophia intended as the $250k stretch.
Edit: both the graphic and the text have since been removed. Guess someone jumped the gun. Hopefully due to the negative feedback regarding value they have decided to bundle all 4 miniatures into one goal like the text implied.
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Post by: CptJake
 Necros wrote:I haven't seen it mentioned, maybe I missed it .. It says the minis are gray plastic... is that pvc? or HIPS? or ABS? or some other cocktail?
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I'm sure at least partially due to the angle, but dang, Michone has legs almost as thick as her torso.
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