Voss wrote: Maybe. I'm trying to parse Clone Wars, Rebels and the Mandalorian into the same time line in an attempt to figure out if she's roughly the right age or not. Still mostly think of Ashoka as a kid, to be honest.
Would she (and Sabine, presumably) be back from their search for wossname from Rebels at this point?
I think the biggest hurdle is making Togruta prosthetics that won't look absurd in live action.
Rosario Dawson is 40, Ahsoka is 45 at the time of The Mandalorian so it's a good age fit. The Mandalorian is set in 9 ABY. Ahsoka and Sabine go looking for Ezra shortly after RotJ in 4 ABY so there's a 5 year gap for them to fit in the Rebels sequel series.Sabine Wren was 16 at the start of Rebels in 4 BBY making her around 29 at the time of the Mandalorian.
Normally I'd comment sarcastically that you may not have noticed that she isn't human and cross species lifespans don't line up necessarily... but in this case (at least according to the old RPG stats), they do.
Age Groups: Togrutas age at the following stages:
CHILD YOUNG ADULT ADULT MIDDLE AGE OLD VENERABLE
1-11 Years 12-17 Years 18-54 Years 55-74 Years 75-94 Years 95+ Years
yeah I'd read it somewhere before that Togruta and humans have roughly the same lifespan but Togruta force users can live up to 200. I see I posted it 2 pages back.
thats mostly due to the old myth about force users living longer. I say Myth because TBH there's not a lot of evidance for it in the movies etc. mostly people extrapolating from Yoda's age
I think the biggest hurdle is making Togruta prosthetics that won't look absurd in live action.
Shaak Ti looked fine.
Was that a random background CGI Jedi from the prequels? That is very much not the same thing as functional prosthetics for a major or recurring character who's going to directly in front of the camera, talking and interacting with people and things on the physical set.
Yeah, she was just a random background Jedi in the movies. But she was a fairly important character in a few story arcs in The Clone Wars show. Her position was basically the Jedi liaison to Kamino who oversaw the Clone production.
Grey Templar wrote: Yeah, she was just a random background Jedi in the movies. But she was a fairly important character in a few story arcs in The Clone Wars show. Her position was basically the Jedi liaison to Kamino who oversaw the Clone production.
Ok, but again, the cartoon version and a live action version are going to look different.
And the Mandolorian so far has largely gone for a down-to-earth aesthetic that a cartoon bunny-girl* race might have problems blending in- what works in a cartoon doesn't really work well in a gritty 'street level' serial.
*yes, I know they aren't rabbits. But bunny girl fits the silhouette and skimpy clothing aesthetic they went with- and like the twi'leks, the females of the species mostly end up as 'exotic dancers' in the video games.
Meh, I think Togruta's are far less of an issue than many other species we've already seen on screen.
I mean, if these little twits can keep showing up without ruining the setting I think a human with some red+white head protrusions is fine.
Plus Ahsoka was wearing much more sensible clothing during Rebels than she was when she was a padawan. I expect by the time of the Mandalorian she has some not-Jedi robes.
She's not gonna be in her Clone War's Sports bra+Yoga pants outfit.
The show literally set one of those on fire as a 'member-berry and had the rest caged in the background. That wasn't a 'yay, puppets!' moment. Quite the opposite.
She's not gonna be in her Clone War's Sports bra+Yoga pants outfit.
We'll see. I can totally see them doing a 'make her look sexy' approach to the character.
Grey Templar wrote: That would be a questionable choice for a 45 year old character and would take the show in a weird direction.
40-somethings can't be sexy? That's just weird and wrong.
As for a weird direction... I have no idea what you mean. This show doesn't have much of a direction. I generally liked it, but the main character mostly meanders, and then suddenly whiplashes wildly between emotionless and wearing his emotions on his sleeve, full on Keystone cops (prison-ship episode), hopelessly pathetic against a space rhino in a mud hole, long silences, the weird Cult of the Helmet, which doesn't mesh at all with recent Mandalorian stuff (which is made particularly weird by bringing on Ashoka, since she was last seen going on an adventure with Sabine Wren, a Mandalorian from actual Mandalore, where no character with a name could wear a helmet for more than five minutes before taking it off).
Its already weird enough with a Force baby that no one recognizes as using the Force, so that they're bringing on an ex-Jedi as a cast member is an inherently weird direction. Plus they've introduced Space Excalibur, which was also featured in Rebels, and they also have to deal with that (which is also tied to Ahsoka's travelling companion and Mandalorian lore in general).
Season 2 could easily end up as a Macguffin chase, or it could meander back towards random bounties until it gets run over by a metaplot. If it isn't inherently weird, I'd be disappointed.
Well, the Darksaber being around could actually give a good link for Ahsoka to enter the story, rather than just adding a popular character just for the hell of it.
AegisGrimm wrote: Well, the Darksaber being around could actually give a good link for Ahsoka to enter the story, rather than just adding a popular character just for the hell of it.
Somewhat. I'd be more confidant about that it the focus was on adding Sabine to the show, since it was her bloody storyline (and personal growth arc). Ashoka was still stuck in her box for that arc, iirc.
AegisGrimm wrote: Well, the Darksaber being around could actually give a good link for Ahsoka to enter the story, rather than just adding a popular character just for the hell of it.
Somewhat. I'd be more confidant about that it the focus was on adding Sabine to the show, since it was her bloody storyline (and personal growth arc). Ashoka was still stuck in her box for that arc, iirc.
Well, the Darksaber being out could mean Ahsoka is following up on something that happened to Sabine?
I'm conflicted. I do like Ms. Dawson, but I'm not sure I like that they're going to bypass the person who's embodied/personified Ahsoka from day 1 across multiple shows.
Captain Joystick wrote: More to the point she had multiple alternate talking and death scenes which they cut- but the costume looked great.
This. Shaak Ti was done in live action and looked great. They just didn't use any of her scenes in the final film. They should have no problem doing it 15 years later.
Appreciating the variety of locations. A bold move given the additional expense. Sets cost money, so we often see the same ones reused over and over in a first season. Here, most if not all Chapters have had unique sets built.
The Mando himself. Very nice to see someone ultimately competent, but not invincible. There’s times when he gets the poop kicked out of him. Helps humanise the man(do) behind the mask.
Not a huge feeling of an arcing storyline. This is kinda unusual in modern TV shows. Yes The Child is a constant presence (and is far more adorable than animatronics have any right to be), but he’s not really the driving force behind the plot.
AegisGrimm wrote: Well, the Darksaber being around could actually give a good link for Ahsoka to enter the story, rather than just adding a popular character just for the hell of it.
Somewhat. I'd be more confidant about that it the focus was on adding Sabine to the show, since it was her bloody storyline (and personal growth arc). Ashoka was still stuck in her box for that arc, iirc.
Well, the Darksaber being out could mean Ahsoka is following up on something that happened to Sabine?
Sabine gave up the dark saber though, she gave it to Bo-Katan. It evidently had a different owner after her. I think it's fairly obvious Sabine did not want to lead the Mandalorians, so she has no reason to have it other than just happening to come into ownership again by chance.
Ashoka was last know to be with Sabine, looking for Ezra. Interestingly, the rise of skywalker indicates that Ashoka had died by the time of Rise of Skywalker, yet Ezra had not (unless he was omitted by accident, which would be weird as they included Kanan).
Anyway, I believe personally we will see both Ashoka and Sabine together still, that is what is indicated by other rumour sources - unsure if the rumour sources have good evidence but more than one is stating they are still looking to cast someone to be Sabine, or they are keeping it secret who has been cast.
Anyway, I know the dark saber turns up but I am on the UK pace of it, so I'm only up to episode 6, please no spoilers, really enjoying it so far.
Appreciating the variety of locations. A bold move given the additional expense. Sets cost money, so we often see the same ones reused over and over in a first season. Here, most if not all Chapters have had unique sets built. .
It’s only the foreground sets that they needed to build - they’ve been using some pretty awesome new screen technology to make virtual environments for the series.
I Cant remember if there is anything spoilery for the last two episodes in this vid about it, so you might want to hold off watching this for a few weeks, but it’s very cool tech:
Interesting theory, the armourer seems very stoic though, rather unlike Sabine... However she would be considerably older by then, you have no idea what has happened to her since we last seen her.
Also it could be cover for some reason, I do find it interesting that all Mandolrians seem to be trying to keep things low key at this point in the timeline, they did seem to be reurging at the end of rebels, something has happened. This may be explored in the later episodes us UK guys have not seen yet though, so please no spoilers if this is the case.
It’s the similar setup to what we know about Maul from Clone Wars, Solo and Rebels, in that specific order.
We know in Clone Wars, he founds the Crimson Dawn ( possibly a renamed Shadow Collective?). Come the events of Solo (9 or so years before Rebels? Ish?) and they’re a serious mover and shaker in the underworld. Rebels? Well, something went wrong for at least Mail, given we find him alone, and partially sane, on Malachor.
Three time stamps, lots for stories to be told in between.
Mandalore?
Well, Clone Wars we have one era, where we see them abandoning pacifism. Rebels? Imperial Collaboration, and civil war. Ends with the promise of a United Mandalore. The Mando? Well, references to The Purge.
What is The Purge? Who actually carried it out? Just The Empire, or did the Civil War get that bad? Are we still seeing fractured Mandalorian society with our protagonists as outcasts, or are they in fact united, but acting in cells?
Two intriguing storylines, both spread out over 3 separate time periods.
Sabine as the armorer feels cheap. Part of the everyone needs to secretly be someone rather than anyone new. At that point, I'd assume the gatling Mando must be Rex. It's possible, but not particularly exciting.
LunarSol wrote: Sabine as the armorer feels cheap. Part of the everyone needs to secretly be someone rather than anyone new. At that point, I'd assume the gatling Mando must be Rex. It's possible, but not particularly exciting.
LunarSol wrote: Sabine as the armorer feels cheap. Part of the everyone needs to secretly be someone rather than anyone new. At that point, I'd assume the gatling Mando must be Rex. It's possible, but not particularly exciting.
And while it's a bit tired, it is a Star Wars thing. I actually went Googling cast lists after watching the last couple of Clone Wars episodes, as one of Bo-Katan's companions, who turned out to be Ursa Wren (Sabine's mother) sounded an awful]i] lot like the Armourer. Which does have me wondering if the Armourer will turn out to be either Sabine or her mother. The Armourer being Sabine [i]would be a potential avenue for introducing Ahsoka.
That being said, the way the Armourer refers to Jedi (IIRC) made it seem like they were something she had heard of but never actually encountered. So I might well be reading too much into ir, and ignoring the fact that Mando helmets distort voices.
LunarSol wrote: Sabine as the armorer feels cheap. Part of the everyone needs to secretly be someone rather than anyone new. At that point, I'd assume the gatling Mando must be Rex. It's possible, but not particularly exciting.
Nah, gatling Mando was Jon Favreau. Just another of the Vizla clanners. Like Pre Vizla, whom he voiced in TCW.
LunarSol wrote: Sabine as the armorer feels cheap. Part of the everyone needs to secretly be someone rather than anyone new. At that point, I'd assume the gatling Mando must be Rex. It's possible, but not particularly exciting.
And while it's a bit tired, it is a Star Wars thing. I actually went Googling cast lists after watching the last couple of Clone Wars episodes, as one of Bo-Katan's companions, who turned out to be Ursa Wren (Sabine's mother) sounded an awful]i] lot like the Armourer. Which does have me wondering if the Armourer will turn out to be either Sabine or her mother. The Armourer being Sabine [i]would be a potential avenue for introducing Ahsoka.
That being said, the way the Armourer refers to Jedi (IIRC) made it seem like they were something she had heard of but never actually encountered. So I might well be reading too much into ir, and ignoring the fact that Mando helmets distort voices.
If the Armorer had to be a known Mandalorian woman, wouldn't it make more sense for her to be Bo-Katan to plat the angle of the failled leader, dispossessed and thrown into exile who latches on to the eldest traditions of her civilisation to try to rebuild?
Personnaly, it seems the Armorer is neither. She seems a little bit too spry for Bo or Ursa who would be well in their fifties by that time and too dour to be Sabine. I guess she will be stuck being "the Armorer" for a while still and I am perfectly fine with having four known Mandalorian women in the Star Wars universe.
It's reassuring that Favreau seemed quite content to just have the Mandalorian be it's own thing. There are any number of places through series one where he could have inserted 'known' characters, even if just into the background of the Bounty Hunters' bar.
Even with Ahsoka coming in season 2, I suspect that trend to continue, so would agree that it's more likely that the Armourer (if she even reappears in later seasons) will remain her own character.
Although on second thought, that seems more likely if she does continue as a recurring character, so her story can be developed further in the series. If she's done with in the show, it makes it more likely that one of the EU writers will pick up her story and turn her into the lovechild of Boba Fett and one of Amidala's handmaidens...
LunarSol wrote: Sabine as the armorer feels cheap. Part of the everyone needs to secretly be someone rather than anyone new. At that point, I'd assume the gatling Mando must be Rex. It's possible, but not particularly exciting.
And while it's a bit tired, it is a Star Wars thing. I actually went Googling cast lists after watching the last couple of Clone Wars episodes, as one of Bo-Katan's companions, who turned out to be Ursa Wren (Sabine's mother) sounded an awful]i] lot like the Armourer. Which does have me wondering if the Armourer will turn out to be either Sabine or her mother. The Armourer being Sabine [i]would be a potential avenue for introducing Ahsoka.
That being said, the way the Armourer refers to Jedi (IIRC) made it seem like they were something she had heard of but never actually encountered. So I might well be reading too much into ir, and ignoring the fact that Mando helmets distort voices.
As in the clone wars epodes that are airing now?
One of Bo-Katans companions was Sabines mother? Whilst we see Sabine is on the other side of the combat? Maybe I'm confused.... If you could explain this a bit more I would be grateful.
Additionally, it could just have been re-using the same voice cast for different characters, unless Ursa Wren was specifically named.
Awesome, thank you for clearing up that confusion. It was the hair colour that threw me off, I've just looked again and the face and complexion don't match up like you say.
With Temuera back I wonder if any of the clones like Rex might show up in live action at some point? He would certainly fit a in an Ahsoka Tano focused show.
Whilst Ahsoka 100% knows Anakin’s fate, did Rex ever find out on screen? I mean, he headed up the 501st, so one imagines there’s drama to be had there?
She had a suspicion from her first encounter with Vader, when she felt his presence. She just either wasn't entirely sure, or didn't want to believe it.
I've posted several times in this thread about how I thought it'd be great to get Boba in this series.
In retrospect, I'm glad it didn't fully happen in Season 1 so that the Mando could stand as it's own thing.
But now that it's accomplished that with flying colors, bringing in Boba would be awesome. So glad Morrison is being cast to do it
Given the western nature of the show, bringing in Boba as a side-villian type counter to the Mando could easily fit the story in addition to being fan service.
I could easily see Gideon having hire Boba specifically to track down the child.
Gideon is clearly a Vader wannabe and Boba has dealings with the Empire before. So it's as easy fit
I’ll see how it’s done. It would be pretty amusing if Boba was just a has-been plying the convention circuit, signing copies of his book for his fanboys, with no interest in hunting bounties now that he’s “moved on up.”
Given the way Boba is portrayed in the Clone Wars cartoon, and his rather underwhelming overall presence in the movies, I've been saying since the EU was booted that it would be cool if they turned him into a bit of a fraud... He's built a reputation out of the armour, the name, and being in the right place at the right time, but is actually a bit of a screw-up just trying (and failing) to live up to dear old dad's standard.
I suspect that they'll just go with 'legendary bounty hunter' though.
insaniak wrote: Given the way Boba is portrayed in the Clone Wars cartoon, and his rather underwhelming overall presence in the movies, I've been saying since the EU was booted that it would be cool if they turned him into a bit of a fraud... He's built a reputation out of the armour, the name, and being in the right place at the right time, but is actually a bit of a screw-up just trying (and failing) to live up to dear old dad's standard.
I suspect that they'll just go with 'legendary bounty hunter' though.
if they did anything else the fanboy screaming would be audiable.
The Mando not being infallible is actually a major bonus for me.
I mean, he is competent, no disputing that. But that we see him get into scrapes he struggles with (Mud Horn, for instance) and barely survives? Marvellous stuff. Means the stakes are generally higher, and he’s constantly at risk of injury.
So the concept that Fett is actually a bit of a putz is highly interesting to me.
insaniak wrote: Given the way Boba is portrayed in the Clone Wars cartoon, and his rather underwhelming overall presence in the movies, I've been saying since the EU was booted that it would be cool if they turned him into a bit of a fraud... He's built a reputation out of the armour, the name, and being in the right place at the right time, but is actually a bit of a screw-up just trying (and failing) to live up to dear old dad's standard.
I suspect that they'll just go with 'legendary bounty hunter' though.
if they did anything else the fanboy screaming would be audiable.
Sadly true but that would be an interesting approach to take.
Obvious Boba fanboy, here. It actually wouldn't bother me if he turned out to not really live up to his "legend", but rather be exposed as a fraud. Still as ruthless as he reputation suggests, but without any honor.
And that's what would make him a great counter to the Mando. He's kinda the opposite side of the same coin. Both were forged by the events of the Clone Wars with particular aspects of Mando culture.
Dyn Jarron was raised by honorable Mandos, while Boba started out being raised by a dishonored "fake" Mando than was left to the "wolves" of Bounty Hunter scum.
insaniak wrote: Given the way Boba is portrayed in the Clone Wars cartoon, and his rather underwhelming overall presence in the movies, I've been saying since the EU was booted that it would be cool if they turned him into a bit of a fraud... He's built a reputation out of the armour, the name, and being in the right place at the right time, but is actually a bit of a screw-up just trying (and failing) to live up to dear old dad's standard.
I suspect that they'll just go with 'legendary bounty hunter' though.
if they did anything else the fanboy screaming would be audiable.
Sadly true but that would be an interesting approach to take.
Unfortunately Fett brings in an extreme amount of baggage, and no matter how they handle it its going to aggrieve a sizeable chunk of the viewership base.
Interesting I wonder if they will do flashbacks to show how Gideon got the Darksaber or if she will appear in the current timeline the former seems more likely.
Sackhoff voiced her in the animated series so that's an obvious casting.
Yes Duchess Satine Kryze sister. Bo Katan Kryze to give her her full name.
I notice there is also speculation going around in the last day or so that the role Sasha Banks has been cast in is Sabine Wren and that Temuera Morrison will also appear as Rex. Both will appear in 1 episode.
And back to Fett while his role in season 2 is small he will have a bigger role in season 3.
Ya know who else I'd like to see in a cameo role in the Mandalorian...eventually: Luke Skywalker in his prime.
If for no other reasons than TLJ crapping on his character arc from RotJ and the fact that an existing actor that already has close ties with Disney looks JUST like a young Mark Hamill: Sebastian 'the Winter Soldier' Stan:
LunarSol wrote: Creepy. Voice would probably be the bigger issue though.
Maybe, maybe not. Luke doesn't really have a distinctive voice that would be hard to mimic. Plus the Mando is set 5 years after ROTJ. Luke's voice could have changed a little bit between the two films. Just be somewhat halfway between little squeeker OT Luke and gravelly old crotchety Luke.
LunarSol wrote: Creepy. Voice would probably be the bigger issue though.
Maybe, maybe not. Luke doesn't really have a distinctive voice that would be hard to mimic. Plus the Mando is set 5 years after ROTJ. Luke's voice could have changed a little bit between the two films. Just be somewhat halfway between little squeeker OT Luke and gravelly old crotchety Luke.
I'd say 'Just get Hamill in to do a voiceover' but I don't know if he could still do non-gravelly Luke...
DaveC wrote: Interesting I wonder if they will do flashbacks to show how Gideon got the Darksaber or if she will appear in the current timeline the former seems more likely.
Sackhoff voiced her in the animated series so that's an obvious casting.
Makes it all the more annoying they didn't get Eckstein to portray Ahsoka.
She is Ahsoka at least as much as Hamill is Luke.
Wow, I mean, sack having luke in the Mando... We could have him in his own thing with Mara Jade and Kyle Katarn popping up with the moldy crow.
That could open up a complete can of worms though if mara and luke were married and had kids in regards to what was established int he sequel trilogy... It's a can of worms I want to open to be honest, but a can of worms all the same.
Automatically Appended Next Post: He also has previous history of playing a dude with a robotic hand, it all lines up perfectly to be honest.
That seemed weird to me that they did that. In this day and age there is no good reason to have staggered releases of any media. Its not like they have to physically ship reels around the world any more.
There were probably contracts involved (that were cheaper for Disney to let run their course, especially if they only have a few months left to run) than to simply tear up.
Broadcast/distribution rights are a convoluted mess at the best of times.
One company not having distribution rights to certain pieces of music can throw a dvd release out by several years (as happened in Oz with several movies, that took up to 10 years to get a dvd release. Soundtrack issues.)
Apparently, the main reason for the delay was due to Disney+ launching later (duh, obviously), but that was because streaming services in Europe must have a library where 30% of its content has to be produced or acquired within Europe. So that took some time to sort out.
Week one they air episode one in the US.
Week two they air episode one in the UK.
Week three they air episode two in the UK.
Week four they air episode two in the US.
Week five they air episode three in the US.
Week six they air episode three in the UK.
Pattern repeats.
But yeah, staggered worldwide releases are dumb. It’s why everyone I know pirated the new BNA anime, as Netflix already released it in Japan, but were not due to get it here for some time yet.
There's a reason why sky atlantic would air GoT's and Westwolrd etc at 1am UK time on a Monday morning, as they were fighting against streamers/torrents having it up online within an hour of it airing in the US and that would significantly reduce the amount of people watching it on Sky Atlantic, as people don't want to wait 20 hours for it to air on the Monday evening.
I use to watch GoT's before work for example as otherwise I would be at the mercy of social media and students who have already watched it, and who desperately wanted to spoil it for someone (me).
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Wow, I mean, sack having luke in the Mando... We could have him in his own thing with Mara Jade and Kyle Katarn popping up with the moldy crow.
That could open up a complete can of worms though if mara and luke were married and had kids in regards to what was established int he sequel trilogy... It's a can of worms I want to open to be honest, but a can of worms all the same.
Automatically Appended Next Post: He also has previous history of playing a dude with a robotic hand, it all lines up perfectly to be honest.
Not a problem with continuity or canon anymore - the head of writing has said that canon exists for each individual fan, it's up to them to be able to choose what canon is. Especially as it's all "fake" anyway.
To which I say "yay!" as it means that I can just erase the sequels from canon and put the Thrawn trilogy back in!
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Apparently, the main reason for the delay was due to Disney+ launching later (duh, obviously), but that was because streaming services in Europe must have a library where 30% of its content has to be produced or acquired within Europe. So that took some time to sort out.
Well thats dumb as heck. But still, you'd think Disney would have that covered since they film everywhere. I'm sure they've got hundreds of episodes of minor shows that used a European set location.
Timothy Olyphant is playing Cobb Vant a character from the 2015 novel Star Wars: Aftermath. He's the sheriff of a Tatooine settlement called Freetown and is the current owner of Fett's armour.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Apparently, the main reason for the delay was due to Disney+ launching later (duh, obviously), but that was because streaming services in Europe must have a library where 30% of its content has to be produced or acquired within Europe. So that took some time to sort out.
Well thats dumb as heck. But still, you'd think Disney would have that covered since they film everywhere. I'm sure they've got hundreds of episodes of minor shows that used a European set location.
Yeah, crazy really, but then consider.... 30% is a lot, and some of their libraries - animation mainly would have no EU production at all.
I may be incorrect, but you can use not yet produced/published content as well as part of the 30% allocation, so the delay they were mainly signing off multiple new shows.
Since April 25th 2014 the only previously published material still considered canon are the six original trilogy/prequel trilogy films, the Star Wars: The Clone Wars television series and film, and Part I of the short story Blade Squadron.
Most material published after April 25 (with some exceptions) —such as the Star Wars Rebels TV series along with all Marvel Star Wars comic books and novels beginning with A New Dawn—is also considered part of the new canon.
They fill in the back story I've never read any of the novels but summaries are easy to find online and that's probably all you need.
EDIT: other rumours going around that Hera Syndulla will also appear in that 1 episode of the Mandalorian season 2 it's looking more like a backdoor pilot for those Rebels characters to transfer to live action.
Yeah there seems to be a bit too much in the way of returning characters being announced. If the writing is good I don't have problem with it but I hope it doesn't result in the Mando and his mission being set aside in order to be a proving ground for new directors and spinnoffs.
Loved the first season though so I'm confident that Filoni and co. will produce something that is worthwhile!
LunarSol wrote: I am a little worried they're leaning too hard on Ahsoka these days.
I kind of agree. I love her story arc and she's been a refreshing part of Star Wars so far.
My concern is that S2 of the Mando won't be as stand alone as the first. It seems there are a ton of Clone Wars/Rebels characters getting put into S2.
That said, most of those characters, including Ahsoka, do have ties to the Mandalorians, so it could very well make sense for the story.
It's entirely possible that Ahsoka, Rex, Bo Katan, Sabine and Hera are all part of the same 1 episode.
We also can assume Boba Fett is probably going to be a 1 episode appearance too.
Assuming S2 is also 8 episodes, that leaves 6 other episodes for more originally stuff. I'd be ok with that.
And I'm looking forward to seeing what new outfit Boba will be wearing, since it's safe to assume Vant now owns his old partially digested armour.
Yup, that's the big question. Most people read this as being extended roles, but they could just wind up as quick cameos or something. Rebels certainly did a good job including Ahsoka as a major story element without letting her dominate the story.
Just about every character in S1 is an extended cameo, given the brief running time of each episode and the paltry number of episodes in a season. Despite these limitations, or perhaps partially because of them, S1 is a rare example of SW content that makes its universe seem bigger rather than smaller. Running into familiar faces at every turn will tend to do the reverse.
And did Fett really only have 4 lines in the Original Trilogy?
With previous non-canon death reversals eventually becoming canon, there's a chance this is the 'real Fett', but I wouldn't be surprised if it is...not?
And did Fett really only have 4 lines in the Original Trilogy?
Sounds about right- 4 lines, 5 sentences, 25 words total.
Kid Boba in Attack of the Clones had 14 lines, but only 51 words in there- mostly 'Dad' and 'get him/ you got him' (him being Obi-wan)
Fett was a non-entity- I suspect he became relevant in Empire just for having the most functional costume/prosthetics/prop (I doubt the original IG model on the deck of the star destroyer could actually move, for example, and the bug guy in robes and lizard guy probably would have displayed problems in walking-around scenes).
The Hamill bit is amusing, just for the sheer irrelevance of his opinion (and his own awareness that what he has to say on the subject doesn't matter). The 'Fett Legacy' article is more annoying, just because it boils down to fanboyism and 'member berries. Between Boba and the various other recurring characters, I suspect Season 2 is going to be a lot of 'Remember when...?'
Pretty sure the IG-88 prop was bolted to the ISD's floor.
Still, I think the inclusion of Fett could be good for the show given it's very heavy emphasis on the Mandalore code/culture, and how Fett is decidedly not part of that culture.
Escaping a Sarlacc looks kinda difficult. Without its tentacles, beak and muscles (peristaltic motion I think?) it’s still a long, slippery climb up the sides and out it’s mouth.
But Fett went in with a damaged jetpack. Get that working again, if only for a few seconds, and with good aim you could be up and out with relative ease.
And we know the Sarlacc must have weak sauce for stomach acid, given how long it’s said to take to digest it’s meals.
Really the only thing to contend with (thanks to the special editions) is the beak. We’ve seen it to be prehensile, and we can reasonably assume it leads to the stomach. Perhaps you can cut your way out from the inside. Maybe you need to blast your way out. Failing that, pretty sure Fett’s flame projector could give the beast some serious indigestion, possible causing it to vomit or otherwise remove the source?
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Maybe you need to blast your way out. Failing that, pretty sure Fett’s flame projector could give the beast some serious indigestion, possible causing it to vomit or otherwise remove the source?
You may be on to something there...
I can see them counterpointing the ridiculous and embarrassing burp with an equally ridiculous and embarrassing vomit.
Or maybe its just as simple as someone helps Fett get out?
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Question there is how many knew where he wound up, outside of Our Heroes?
Probably everyone in every bar that Han got drunk at for the next 10 years. Oh man, did I ever tell you what happened to the last guy that tried to bring me in for bounty hunting? The famous Boba Fett? ::looks meaningfully at his empty glass::.
He rode that Kessel Run stunt forever, and he's not exactly about operational security.
Plus.... Threepio was there. I'm not thinking it was much of a secret.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Maybe you need to blast your way out. Failing that, pretty sure Fett’s flame projector could give the beast some serious indigestion, possible causing it to vomit or otherwise remove the source?
You may be on to something there...
I can see them counterpointing the ridiculous and embarrassing burp with an equally ridiculous and embarrassing vomit.
Or maybe its just as simple as someone helps Fett get out?
I’m imaging the horror of being a creatures whose mouth is on the top of its immobile body hurried in a funnel vomiting. Like, you better hope it’s a geyser on a windy day to keep that from just coming right back down on/in you.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Question there is how many knew where he wound up, outside of Our Heroes?
Probably everyone in every bar that Han got drunk at for the next 10 years. Oh man, did I ever tell you what happened to the last guy that tried to bring me in for bounty hunting? The famous Boba Fett? ::looks meaningfully at his empty glass::.
He rode that Kessel Run stunt forever, and he's not exactly about operational security.
Plus.... Threepio was there. I'm not thinking it was much of a secret.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Changed the title, how did 'Star War' remain for 34 pages and 2 years?
Given I was responsible?
Don’t look at me. Someone else did it. Honest, Guv!
Seems we’re still to expect season 2 in October. Assuming the U.K. will get it the same time.
Yeah, fortunately for them, they'd already finished production on S2 (leaving only the post-production stuff) when the 'rona shut errything down. Pretty much all post-prod can be done from home for that show (given where the FX people live and the hardware they generally have at their homes anyway).
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Escaping a Sarlacc looks kinda difficult. Without its tentacles, beak and muscles (peristaltic motion I think?) it’s still a long, slippery climb up the sides and out it’s mouth.
But Fett went in with a damaged jetpack. Get that working again, if only for a few seconds, and with good aim you could be up and out with relative ease.
And we know the Sarlacc must have weak sauce for stomach acid, given how long it’s said to take to digest it’s meals.
Really the only thing to contend with (thanks to the special editions) is the beak. We’ve seen it to be prehensile, and we can reasonably assume it leads to the stomach. Perhaps you can cut your way out from the inside. Maybe you need to blast your way out. Failing that, pretty sure Fett’s flame projector could give the beast some serious indigestion, possible causing it to vomit or otherwise remove the source?
I still think the exploding sail barge directly above the Sarlacc was enough to destroy the beak and tentacles and at the very least stun or even kill the Sarlacc.
That would allow Fett a much easier escape, regardless of a working jetpack.
H.B.M.C. wrote: No hints of Bo, or Ahsoka, or even Gideon. Hmm...
Keeping this one very close to the vest it seems.
I figured the female Jedi who vanished from the Bristol docks scene was Ahsoka.
Just for 'conservation of characters' logic. There aren't exactly a lot of them running around at this point in the post-RotJ timeline.
I like the trailer. The part where Baby Yoda battons down the crib hatches made me laugh. I still haven't seen the first season but maybe I'll jump onto Disney+ for a month after this season is done to binge it all at once. Now that I know what I'm looking for, the projection screen set effects are a bit more obvious but I really like the tech.
H.B.M.C. wrote: No hints of Bo, or Ahsoka, or even Gideon. Hmm...
Keeping this one very close to the vest it seems.
I figured the female Jedi who vanished from the Bristol docks scene was Ahsoka.
Just for 'conservation of characters' logic. There aren't exactly a lot of them running around at this point in the post-RotJ timeline.
That's Sasha Banks in the robes so it's not Ahsoka it might be Sabine but it's still not clear who Sasha is yet.
Apparently there has been trouble behind the scenes. Rumour has it Pedro Pascal hates wearing the helmet and suit and wants a lot more unhelmeted scenes. He threatened to walk if it didn't happen and he was basically told no walk if you want so he did. They had to rejuggle things in the latter half of the season to finish it. A bit silly if true as his role is easy enough to recast, they already have 2 stunt actors on set for the action scenes and then get a voice actor to mimic him.
H.B.M.C. wrote: No hints of Bo, or Ahsoka, or even Gideon. Hmm...
Keeping this one very close to the vest it seems.
I figured the female Jedi who vanished from the Bristol docks scene was Ahsoka.
Just for 'conservation of characters' logic. There aren't exactly a lot of them running around at this point in the post-RotJ timeline.
That's Sasha Banks in the robes so it's not Ahsoka it might be Sabine but it's still not clear who Sasha is yet.
Apparently there has been trouble behind the scenes. Rumour has it Pedro Pascal hates wearing the helmet and suit and wants a lot more unhelmeted scenes. He threatened to walk if it didn't happen and he was basically told no walk if you want so he did. They had to rejuggle things in the latter half of the season to finish it. A bit silly if true as his role is easy enough to recast, they already have 2 stunt actors on set for the action scenes and then get a voice actor to mimic him.
I've heard that those rumors are complete hogwash and I've never heard anything negative about Pedro Pascal in general. Sure, there's always a first, but I have a hard time believing an actor would jettison a lead role in a commercially and critically successful series unless they had massive ego issues. Between Oberyn and the Mando (and soon WW84) Pedro is a legend in geek media.
Also, gordonramsay.jpeg "Finally some good fracking Star Wars".
Apparently there has been trouble behind the scenes. Rumour has it Pedro Pascal hates wearing the helmet and suit and wants a lot more unhelmeted scenes. He threatened to walk if it didn't happen and he was basically told no walk if you want so he did. They had to rejuggle things in the latter half of the season to finish it. A bit silly if true as his role is easy enough to recast, they already have 2 stunt actors on set for the action scenes and then get a voice actor to mimic him.
warboss wrote: I like the trailer. The part where Baby Yoda battons down the crib hatches made me laugh. I still haven't seen the first season but maybe I'll jump onto Disney+ for a month after this season is done to binge it all at once. Now that I know what I'm looking for, the projection screen set effects are a bit more obvious but I really like the tech.
That's pretty much what I did for the first season (which coincided roughly with December & New Years holidays). Waited for the last episode, went for a free trial, watched Mando and then watched the Rebels episodes I hadn't seen.
Poked about a bit for other things and let it expire without subbing.
They haven't started begging me to come back with another free trial (in stark contrast to both Hulu and Netflix), so apparently Disney+ is doing well.
Voss wrote: That's pretty much what I did for the first season (which coincided roughly with December & New Years holidays). Waited for the last episode, went for a free trial, watched Mando and then watched the Rebels episodes I hadn't seen.
Poked about a bit for other things and let it expire without subbing.
They haven't started begging me to come back with another free trial (in stark contrast to both Hulu and Netflix), so apparently Disney+ is doing well.
I did the same with Star Trek. I watched STD season 1 after it finished during my free week and was turned off enough to not be interested in season 2 or Picard season 1 until they extended a free month to everyone at the start of the pandemic in the US. That was quite generous on their part (no sarcasm) and I did appreciate it even if I didn't much like the actual shows.
Since the Mandalorian by all accounts doesn't suck, it might be worth it for me to pay for a month if there isn't a free trial. Two seasons of Mando plus whatever behind the scenes stuff for it along with the Marvel and Star Wars movies I chose to skip will be a sizeable amount of content.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: Disney+ and Amazon dropped their free trial not long after the COVID gak kicked off.
I never knew Amazon had one (I sub to them and Netflix so don't pay attention to their offers) but I didn't know Disney axed their's. I wonder with all the financial doom and gloom they're having (most recently with Mulan bombing in China) if that'll make them want to offer it again.
Voss wrote: That's pretty much what I did for the first season (which coincided roughly with December & New Years holidays). Waited for the last episode, went for a free trial, watched Mando and then watched the Rebels episodes I hadn't seen.
Poked about a bit for other things and let it expire without subbing.
They haven't started begging me to come back with another free trial (in stark contrast to both Hulu and Netflix), so apparently Disney+ is doing well.
I did the same with Star Trek. I watched STD season 1 after it finished during my free week and was turned off enough to not be interested in season 2 or Picard season 1 until they extended a free month to everyone at the start of the pandemic in the US. That was quite generous on their part (no sarcasm) and I did appreciate it even if I didn't much like the actual shows.
Since the Mandalorian by all accounts doesn't suck, it might be worth it for me to pay for a month if there isn't a free trial. Two seasons of Mando plus whatever behind the scenes stuff for it along with the Marvel and Star Wars movies I chose to skip will be a sizeable amount of content.
True, true. I just hadn't realized they cut it.
I was waiting for a least a couple of their promised shows to surface (either season 2 of this, Loki or maybe the Scarlet/Vision show) before I went back, so had no reason to pay attention to them. So the free trial getting the axe escaped my notice entirely.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Escaping a Sarlacc looks kinda difficult. Without its tentacles, beak and muscles (peristaltic motion I think?) it’s still a long, slippery climb up the sides and out it’s mouth.
But Fett went in with a damaged jetpack. Get that working again, if only for a few seconds, and with good aim you could be up and out with relative ease.
And we know the Sarlacc must have weak sauce for stomach acid, given how long it’s said to take to digest it’s meals.
Really the only thing to contend with (thanks to the special editions) is the beak. We’ve seen it to be prehensile, and we can reasonably assume it leads to the stomach. Perhaps you can cut your way out from the inside. Maybe you need to blast your way out. Failing that, pretty sure Fett’s flame projector could give the beast some serious indigestion, possible causing it to vomit or otherwise remove the source?
Eh. In the old canon he escaped by just detonating a thermal detonator inside of it and then climbing out with a combination of those forearm knives Jango used to climb up the wall in AotC and that wire he shoots out of his wrist mount. Considering how much crap he's equipped with at any given time, it doesn't come as a surprise to me that he might have escaped.
I would really like if they brought back Temuera Morrison for the role if Fett makes an appearance though. It would be a very fun dynamic to me for him to portray a clone of his original self. The only real problem I guess is his age, since Boba explicitly did not have the rapid aging that the other clones did.
BlaxicanX wrote: The only real problem I guess is his age, since Boba explicitly did not have the rapid aging that the other clones did.
Not really. He would have been 36 when Jabba is killed. The Mandalorian takes place 5 years after the Empire falls. So Boba would be 41-42ish. Temuera may be 59 but he could certainly pass for early 40s. Plus I'm sure the Bounty Hunting lifestyle is pretty rough on your body so you're going to age prematurely.
And even if Boba wasn't deliberately aged, cloning has potential issues just by default. Real life cloning in animals is known to sometimes have premature aging, so even if Boba was not subjected to deliberately accelerated aging he could still suffer inherent accelerated aging because cloning just might cause it.
Of course its all moot anyway. Its not like Boba ever takes his helmet off either so it really doesn't matter what he looks like.
I want Boba Fett in the show as I think it'd be interesting to use his character as a way of exploring the concept of "stolen valour". Fett very specifically isn't a Mandalorian. Neither was his father. But he certainly trades on that image, and even if he never actually tells people he is, I suspect he'd never correct someone if they said he was a legit Mando.
But in truth I'd rather have Temuera come back to play Rex.
That's actually a really good and interesting point about Fett. I was already aware that he would be a foil to Mando, but didn't think of it in the 'Stolen Valor' context. He definitely profited off the reputation of Mandalorians, at least as warriors. It'll be an ugly day in Star Wars fandom if the two fight each other...no matter who wins a lot of fans are going to be pissed.
BlaxicanX wrote: The only real problem I guess is his age, since Boba explicitly did not have the rapid aging that the other clones did.
Not really. He would have been 36 when Jabba is killed. The Mandalorian takes place 5 years after the Empire falls. So Boba would be 41-42ish. Temuera may be 59 but he could certainly pass for early 40s. Plus I'm sure the Bounty Hunting lifestyle is pretty rough on your body so you're going to age prematurely.
And even if Boba wasn't deliberately aged, cloning has potential issues just by default. Real life cloning in animals is known to sometimes have premature aging, so even if Boba was not subjected to deliberately accelerated aging he could still suffer inherent accelerated aging because cloning just might cause it.
Of course its all moot anyway. Its not like Boba ever takes his helmet off either so it really doesn't matter what he looks like.
Not so much premature aging - it's just that cloning copies the animal from that point in it's life. So if you clone a 20 year old, it's still genetically a 20 year old when it's born, even if physically it's only a newborn.
If you can fix the telomere issue (it's the degradation on those that causes all of the age related replication fails. As you get older, they get shorter and more prone to 'misfires') then it shouldn't be an issue and given that the Kaminoans were supposed "masters" at cloning, they might have had that problem licked.
It would be an interesting angle to see if Moff Gideon hires Boba to hunt down the Mando, seeing an equivalent of Jason Todd and Batman facing off against each other since they both have an arsenal of weapons than just a blaster.
chromedog wrote: Not so much premature aging - it's just that cloning copies the animal from that point in it's life. So if you clone a 20 year old, it's still genetically a 20 year old when it's born, even if physically it's only a newborn.
If you can fix the telomere issue (it's the degradation on those that causes all of the age related replication fails. As you get older, they get shorter and more prone to 'misfires') then it shouldn't be an issue and given that the Kaminoans were supposed "masters" at cloning, they might have had that problem licked.
This is also Star Wars, and I don't think that was even considered when they were inventing the clones.
Temuera Morrison's voice was only dubbed for the special edition and post-prints.
they didn't even use the voice of Jeremy Bulloch who wore the suit in ESB (he also plays one of the imperial officers escorting superchilled Han - as well as being in one of the prequels, too).
The voices for quite a few characters were dubbed in post.
chromedog wrote: Not so much premature aging - it's just that cloning copies the animal from that point in it's life. So if you clone a 20 year old, it's still genetically a 20 year old when it's born, even if physically it's only a newborn.
If you can fix the telomere issue (it's the degradation on those that causes all of the age related replication fails. As you get older, they get shorter and more prone to 'misfires') then it shouldn't be an issue and given that the Kaminoans were supposed "masters" at cloning, they might have had that problem licked.
This is also Star Wars, and I don't think that was even considered when they were inventing the clones.
The premature aging they do talk about is "I want adult soldiers NOW" kind of stuff, where they're altered to mature physically faster so they can be combat ready sooner. It takes them 10 years to reach their 20's and with that kind of pseudo science by 40 they're reaching the end of their natural lives. That's the only thought put into Boba being "unaltered".
I know that, but that was't what chromedog was talking about. He was talking about the real life problems with cloning, and how a clone of something that is 20 years old will be biologically 20 years old, even as a newborn, something I doubt ever crossed the minds of those creating the clones in SW.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I know that, but that was't what chromedog was talking about. He was talking about the real life problems with cloning, and how a clone of something that is 20 years old will be biologically 20 years old, even as a newborn, something I doubt ever crossed the minds of those creating the clones in SW.
Right, I was just agreeing with you. The alterations they're talking about aren't based on the science chromedog was talking about.
AegisGrimm wrote: I like the idea of Stolen Valor coming up between him and Mando.
Yeah me too. Boba "died" in such a dumb way, so bringing him back with the purpose of being a foil to true Mandalorians is a great way get a bit of fan service done right, ie not just to bring him back, but to use him to drive a good story.
I'll never understand anyone who wanted Boba to stay dead.
AegisGrimm wrote: I like the idea of Stolen Valor coming up between him and Mando.
Yeah me too. Boba "died" in such a dumb way, so bringing him back with the purpose of being a foil to true Mandalorians is a great way get a bit of fan service done right, ie not just to bring him back, but to use him to drive a good story.
I'll never understand anyone who wanted Boba to stay dead.
-
Because he's a throwaway character in a universe of potentially interesting characters.
That the fandom built him into something he's not doesn't actually make him interesting.
Its purely the bad kind of 'member berries ' fan service.
The mystique surrounding Boba Fett, subsequent speculation, and fandom love for him is why The Mandalorian exists at all. Does anyone doubt that fan reception to Boba Fett and his EU appearances played a major role in Lucas deciding to add Jango (and Boba) to the Prequel Trilogy?
The mystique surrounding Boba Fett, subsequent speculation, and fandom love for him is why The Mandalorian exists at all. Does anyone doubt that fan reception to Boba Fett and his EU appearances played a major role in Lucas deciding to add Jango (and Boba) to the Prequel Trilogy?
No, crappy fanservice is exactly why the Fetts are in the prequels. They serve no point or purpose beyond fanservice - the clones don't need a link to any specific person to perform their function, and it doesn't go anywhere, create any tensions, or resolve any plot hooks.
An interview with the Mandalorian head has him specifically say that his own fanboyism is exactly why he made the show.
Neither of those makes Boba Fett an interesting character. Or uneaten by the Sarlaac.
trexmeyer wrote: Does anyone doubt that fan reception to Boba Fett and his EU appearances played a major role in Lucas deciding to add Jango (and Boba) to the Prequel Trilogy?
Yes, I completely doubt that. Furthermore, Filoni's treatment of Fett, and the subsequent development of the Mandalorians as a culture that extends to an actual civilization and not a memetic "WE WARRIORS, WE SMASH, RAWR" makes for an abundant repudiation of the EU Space Spartans that the Mandalorians were in the Twenty Aughts.
trexmeyer wrote: Does anyone doubt that fan reception to Boba Fett and his EU appearances played a major role in Lucas deciding to add Jango (and Boba) to the Prequel Trilogy?
Yes, I completely doubt that. Furthermore, Filoni's treatment of Fett, and the subsequent development of the Mandalorians as a culture that extends to an actual civilization and not a memetic "WE WARRIORS, WE SMASH, RAWR" makes for an abundant repudiation of the EU Space Spartans that the Mandalorians were in the Twenty Aughts.
Neither of those makes Boba Fett an interesting character. Or uneaten by the Sarlaac.
Where did I say anything about what makes Fett interesting? You know what makes Fett interesting and if by some chance you're blind to the reasons why...well Google exists. It's not remotely complicated.
Neither of those makes Boba Fett an interesting character. Or uneaten by the Sarlaac.
Where did I say anything about what makes Fett interesting? You know what makes Fett interesting and if by some chance you're blind to the reasons why...well Google exists. It's not remotely complicated.
If you're not trying to argue that he's interesting... I have no idea why you're bothering to argue with me. This show exists to capitalism on the fanboyism, that's obvious, but that's pure marketing.
I don't know what makes Fett interesting. He's Vader and Jabba's UPS guy. That's it- literally all he does in the OT is follow the package (ie, Han) and then ship him from Bespin to Tatooine.
The fandom built him up into some sort of meme icon, but Google won't tell me squat about the why the fanboys think that's justified.
You never played KotOR did you?
Actually, the 'warriors, smash, raagh' is a pretty succinct summary of Mandalorians in KotoR
Moran said Vader's admonition specifically to Fett in The Empire Strikes Back—"No disintegrations"—gives Fett credibility; he was interested in Fett because the character is "strong, silent, [and] brutal".[21] Jeter says that even when Fett appears passive, he conveys "capability and ruthlessness".[24] Bissell credits Bulloch for giving Fett "effortless authority" in his first scene in The Empire Strikes Back, using such nuances as cradling his blaster and slightly cocking his head.[59] Fett's small role in the film may actually have made the character seem more intriguing.[4] Logan, who was a Young Artist Award nominee for his portrayal of Fett, compares Fett to "that boy in school who never talks" and who attracts others' curiosity.[92][93]
Bissell adds that Boba Fett, along with other minor characters like Darth Maul and Kyle Katarn, appeals to adolescent boys' "images of themselves: essentially bad-ass but ... honorable about it."[59] This tension and the absence of a clear "evil nature" (distinct from evil actions) offer Fett dramatic appeal.[59] Furthermore, Fett "is cool because he was designed to be cool", presenting a "wicked ambiguity" akin to John Milton's portrayal of Satan in Paradise Lost and Iago in William Shakespeare's Othello.[59] Bissell compares Fett to Beowulf, Ahab, and Huckleberry Finn: characters "too big" for their original presentation, and apt for continued development in other stories.[59] Moran finds Fett reminiscent of the Man with No Name.[21]
As a matter of fact I did. It's on effectively every device I own that I game on (excepting my Switch, because its not on that platform to my knowledge). But please continue with trying to trot out that "No True Scotsman" fallacy.
Because Lucas didnt have the creative capacity to do anything different. The exact same reason that, say, Yoda was a fascist warmonger in stark contrast to his ESB role.
I have no idea who those people are or why I'd care about their opinions on a Wiki page.
'cool because he was designed to be cool' isn't exactly an open and closed case, and the comparison to classic literature characters is absolute rot. Ahab, Beowulf, etc have a lot of characterization in their respective works. They're not just an action figure for a kid to buy or a collector to display.
The teen boy macho illusions might have some justification, but sadly, most crazed Boba fanboys I've had the misfortune to meet have been 30+, and should have grown past that a long time ago. Sometimes an empty shell is just an empty shell. Pretty enough to pluck from the beach and put on a shelf, but no reason to build an elaborate fantasy around it.
As a matter of fact I did. It's on effectively every device I own that I game on (excepting my Switch, because its not on that platform to my knowledge). But please continue with trying to trot out that "No True Scotsman" fallacy.
Please explain how asking that question is an example of a "No True Scotsman" fallacy.
Please explain how asking that question is an example of a "No True Scotsman" fallacy.
Instead of responding with an actual argument when your assertion is challenged, you instead go straight to the dumpster with "you never interacted with source material XYZ" in an attempt to discredit someone who doesnt buy into the Cult of Fett. Because clearly, had I actually played Knights of the Old Republic, I would be a faithful convert.
Please explain how asking that question is an example of a "No True Scotsman" fallacy.
Instead of responding with an actual argument when your assertion is challenged, you instead go straight to the dumpster with "you never interacted with source material XYZ" in an attempt to discredit someone who doesnt buy into the Cult of Fett. Because clearly, had I actually played Knights of the Old Republic, I would be a faithful convert.
Which is complete bs.
Yeah, no. You're reading way too much out of a simple question and projecting an utterly bizarre anger and hatred towards people who disagree with you over a bloody fictional character. I can't fathom why and I don't particularly care, so have fun with it.
Yeah, no. You're reading way too much out of a simple question and projecting an utterly bizarre anger and hatred towards people who disagree with you over a bloody fictional character. I can't fathom why and I don't particularly care, so have fun with it.
Im not the one who came into a thread and started slinging crap at anyone with a negative opinion of a particular character who may or may not have any kind of significant role in S2 of a show.
But please, continue to tell me how I'm the one seething with internet rage, while simultaneously trying to ridicule me for having the audacity to disagree with your holy vision of Boba Fett as your lord and savior.
It is also important to recognize the important of physical interaction. It doesn't translate to text conversations at all, but people communicate more via body language than anything else much of the time and physical presence is easy to underestimate. Keanu Reeves gets flack for "whoa" but its his physical acting that wins over fans.
For a sillier example, I remember Left Shark WAY more than whoever they were dancing to the left of.
Yeah, no. You're reading way too much out of a simple question and projecting an utterly bizarre anger and hatred towards people who disagree with you over a bloody fictional character. I can't fathom why and I don't particularly care, so have fun with it.
Im not the one who came into a thread and started slinging crap at anyone with a negative opinion of a particular character who may or may not have any kind of significant role in S2 of a show.
But please, continue to tell me how I'm the one seething with internet rage, while simultaneously trying to ridicule me for having the audacity to disagree with your holy vision of Boba Fett as your lord and savior.
Please quote me "slinging crap" and where I claimed that Boba Fett was "my lord and savior". My posts are unedited.
Automatically Appended Next Post: For the record, I'm not emotionally invested in someone else's fictional creation. I disagreed with Voss's assessment of Fett as a 'throwaway character'. That's an absurd claim.
How exactly is "Y'all two are on one" slinging crap?
Again, where did I claim Boba Fett is my lord and savior? Is it really such a stretch to see the following:
1) Boba Fett had a large fan following dating back to TESB
2) This led to the creation of many stories around him and the more extensive development of Mandalorians
3) Fans loved Mandalorians more than possibly any faction in Star Wars other than the Jedi/Sith
4) Disney likes money so they gave the fans a show about a Mandalorian
What part of that indicates that I personally consider "Boba Fett" my lord and savior? At no point have I expressed my opinion on the quality of the character.
What part of that indicates that I personally consider "Boba Fett" my lord and savior? At no point have I expressed my opinion on the quality of the character.
For starters, your recurring need to post things like this:
What part of that indicates that I personally consider "Boba Fett" my lord and savior? At no point have I expressed my opinion on the quality of the character.
For starters, your recurring need to post things like this:
None of which is evidence of fandom liking him. But please, continue to equate two editorial teams to the entirely of the Star Wars fanbase. It really makes the case about how un-invested and non-cultish you're being in a character whose sole purpose is to die to a blind idiot with a stick.
Guys chill out. If it wasn't for the Fett character you'd have no Mandalorian, clone origin (take it or leave it), antagonists in Kotor, or a bunch of stories about Mandos in Dark Horse comics, inclusing some really cool Old Republic stuff when Dark Horse gave Star Wars an awesomely gritty and dark past.
Indeed. Fett is cool because his brief presence in the story is impactful. Darth Vader singles him out for his notorious methods. He outsmarts Han Solo when no one else could. After Vader threatens “pray I don’t alter the deal any farther” we see the same Vader promise Fett “we will compensate you”, which tells you all kinds of stuff about Fett’s standing in the universe. In ESB, Fett is undeniably cool.
Then, in the same movie that gave us Ewoks and schlemiel Han Solo, Fett dies the slapstick death, punctuated with a sand-anus burp. Fett is undeniably lame.
Like Han Solo, Fett should have remained offscreen forever in the post-ROTJ Star Wars universe.
Except the rule in cinema is show don't tell. I don't want people to TELL me Fett is cool. I want to see Fett be cool. And we never see that.
We see him stand around. Say about 7 words in 2 movies. Shoot like 4 feet over Lukes head (what a crack shot!), fly directly into the side of a ship the first time we see him use his jet pack, and then fall directly into a giant monster butt hole in the sand.
He's useless. He looks great. Agreed. But he's nothing and he does nothing.
I’m not a Fett fanboy. I want him to stay dead. I would have preferred he only appeared in ESB, did the one thing, and then disappeared into legend. RotJ began the tradition of embarrassing Fett Fanservice, and every appearance since then has “rhymed like poetry”.
I dunno, maybe the fact that The Mandalorian (you know, the show this thread is about?) is a huge critical success.
A show that has nothing to do with Fett. Yet somehow the success of the show is evidence of Fett's amazingness?
That's incredible logic right there.
.
you realize until the prequals came out basicly ALL we knew, about the Mandalorians is that "Boba Fett wore the armor of a Mandalorian supercommando, a group that had fought the Jedi in the clone wars"
that was literally ALL we knew about them. people where intreasted in Mandalorians because, for whatever reason (frankly I never got it myself) the fanbase loves him. It's absolutely 100% accurate to say that without Boba Fett we would not have seen the Mandalorian.
Look you don't have to get it, as I said I'm a giant SW fan and I'm not sure I do. (I also find it doubtful that Mandalorians are more popular then the rebels and empire so the "third most favorite faction" I call.. doubtful) but yeah, Mandalorians are quite popular among the fanbase, due to early fascination with Boba Fett
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lance845 wrote: Except the rule in cinema is show don't tell. I don't want people to TELL me Fett is cool. I want to see Fett be cool. And we never see that.
honestly thats why I'm optimistic about him being in the Mandalorian. rememebr Filoni's the same guy who managed to turn Anakin Skywalker from "whiny kid" to "OMG his fall was actually tragic" with Clone Wars
BrianDavion wrote: It's absolutely 100% accurate to say that without Boba Fett we would not have seen the Mandalorian.
No, it isnt. You're trying to cause a Grandfather paradox and it's just bs. Because you can make the exact same one using say, Alec Guinness while still being just as "accurate", and just as wrong..
Lance845 wrote: Except the rule in cinema is show don't tell. I don't want people to TELL me Fett is cool. I want to see Fett be cool. And we never see that.
honestly thats why I'm optimistic about him being in the Mandalorian. rememebr Filoni's the same guy who managed to turn Anakin Skywalker from "whiny kid" to "OMG his fall was actually tragic" with Clone Wars
There are 2 things I have to say about this.
1) I don't want someone to come along 40 years after the fact and make a character who is a incompetent goof try to live up to fan hype after the fact. Especially when it requires them to survive a death scene for some reason.
2) No. Anakins fall wasn't tragic. Because we still saw it in the movies and it was about nothing. If you want Anakins fall to be tragic then you need to do what Yoda said in Ep 1. This is how it works.
First, Don't "kill" maul in episode 1. Maul should have survived and escaped. Yoda says the whole he has much fear. Fear leads to anger, anger to hate, hate to the dark side.
Then Episode 2 isn't just about the fear in the galaxy that leads to the clone army and war, but also about how over the years Maul has always reappeared and escaped. He is a terror weapon. He strikes down people close to Anakin and obi over and over again. And they don't just tell us about it. Show it to us. Qui Gon was the first of several to be hunted by Maul. Instead of making Sam Jackson the most boring person in SW on screen why not establish a good relationship between him and Obi and Anakin. Have him really take them under his wing or whatever. Only to have Maul reappear to kill him in front of them. Not have random sand people, but Maul, kill Anakin's mother. Have Maul kill Jar Jar (Yes!).
Then in episode 3 Maul comes after Padme, and thats the tipping point. Obi Wan, despite the loss and what Maul is and does, becomes a better Jedi and lets go of his emotions while Anakin falls farther and farther into fear and anger and hate. Anakin kills Maul in episode 3 before turning on Obi Wan now fully Dark "You let him kill them and you never cared! He was going to kill her! The Jedi are WEAK! I will protect them. I will protect everyone! To do that I will become strong!" Anakin's fall is orchestrated in a way that actually makes sense with Palpatine either having his apprentice be the best ever or Anakin striking him down and being a better apprentice.
You can't fix the massive mistakes of the prequels without more or less ignoring the actual events of the movies and instead just taking them as broad stroke events.
And no mater what they do in the Mandolorian, Boba Fett still shot like 5 feet over Lukes head, flew directly into the side of a ship, and fell into the sarlac like a idiot. Nothing they do for him in the show will take away the crap he has been in the movies.
Clone Wars was a long and hard sell for me, and I ended up liking it in spite of the fact that we were constantly encouraged to identify with the struggles and heroics of an overgrown whiny man child angry that no one would fondle his balls as much as he wished they would. The series makes the plot of Ep. III worse in my eyes honestly, because it makes the Jedi seem too dumb to live. Obi-Wan and others saw Anakin's instability and lust for violence multiple times in the Clone Wars series and it was always just "well isn't that just quirky and misunderstood *winks at the camera*". It was bad. No one responded to Anakin in the way a living thinking person would actually respond except maybe Ahsoka, who had the excuse that she was a lot like Anakin and saw him in quieter moments in ways other Jedi didn't. Everyone else just ended up looking like more the fool each passing outburst and their reactions were inauthentic in my eyes.
Clone Wars was at its best when Anakin wasn't even around. The Jar-Jar episodes were more fun than the ones about Anakin and his childish inability to just let things go.
I think the series manages to sell the tragedy of Anakin to people who were already willing to believe it. To anyone who thought the whole thing was a child's vision of tragedy, it was just more playground crap from a guy who really should have been seen as dangerous and unstable from the get go. It's actually kind of bizarre Anakin wasn't given the rank of master in Ep. III, given how much everyone else in Clone Wars seemed ready and willing to think fondly of him. The series did nothing to build the distrust between Anakin and the Council except for Ahsoka's treason trial, which just made the council's distrust of him feel all the more hollow and out of the blue cause Anakin jumped through hoops to be the only one looking into what really happened.
I've watched clone wars. It -sort of- does that. I like the new characters like Ashoka, but they muddy the water on Anakin. It's all muddy water on Anakin.
The prequels and Clone Wars series is all so round about because they have to dodge around all the pitfalls of the movies to try and build something that fits. The 6 hours of the movies is more then enough time to tell that story. If only it wasn't a discombobulated mess.
All of Star Wars is a storytelling mess. ESB mostly ties in well with a New Hope despite retconning the Anakin/Vader relationship. ROTJ really dials up The Empire being morons and introduces us to Palpatine's inability to stop blasting lightning into himself. The second Death Star also set the precedent of 'bad guys love superweapons' which led to the EU introducing several dozen...
The PT seems like its set in an entirely different universe. The only consistency is that everyone is a moron for the sake of plot. Oh, and somehow a million or so clones is a sufficient army for a galactic war. At least the EU Imperial Fleet of 1000~ Star Destroyers gets the scale right.
Star Wars has some stunning aesthetics and decent themes, but in terms of storytelling it's flat out bad.
Clone Wars was a long and hard sell for me, and I ended up liking it in spite of the fact that we were constantly encouraged to identify with the struggles and heroics of an overgrown whiny man child angry that no one would fondle his balls as much as he wished they would. The series makes the plot of Ep. III worse in my eyes honestly, because it makes the Jedi seem too dumb to live. Obi-Wan and others saw Anakin's instability and lust for violence multiple times in the Clone Wars series and it was always just "well isn't that just quirky and misunderstood *winks at the camera*". It was bad. No one responded to Anakin in the way a living thinking person would actually respond except maybe Ahsoka, who had the excuse that she was a lot like Anakin and saw him in quieter moments in ways other Jedi didn't. Everyone else just ended up looking like more the fool each passing outburst and their reactions were inauthentic in my eyes.
Clone Wars was at its best when Anakin wasn't even around. The Jar-Jar episodes were more fun than the ones about Anakin and his childish inability to just let things go.
I think the series manages to sell the tragedy of Anakin to people who were already willing to believe it. To anyone who thought the whole thing was a child's vision of tragedy, it was just more playground crap from a guy who really should have been seen as dangerous and unstable from the get go. It's actually kind of bizarre Anakin wasn't given the rank of master in Ep. III, given how much everyone else in Clone Wars seemed ready and willing to think fondly of him. The series did nothing to build the distrust between Anakin and the Council except for Ahsoka's treason trial, which just made the council's distrust of him feel all the more hollow and out of the blue cause Anakin jumped through hoops to be the only one looking into what really happened.
Same. Clone Wars did nothing for Anakin.
It actually filled out the _war_ and stories about other characters, but everything about Annie was willful blindness. Even having Force Demigods randomly show up and explicitly give Obi-won the elevator summary of Episode III wasn't enough.
I'd give Ahsoka a pass just because she's a kid, his student and both of those are significant handicaps when it comes to judging someone accurately, and she does get to see real emotion out of him from time to time.
But everyone else is just a blithering moron willing to ignore what's blatantly happening in front of them.
trexmeyer wrote: All of Star Wars is a storytelling mess. ESB mostly ties in well with a New Hope despite retconning the Anakin/Vader relationship. ROTJ really dials up The Empire being morons and introduces us to Palpatine's inability to stop blasting lightning into himself. The second Death Star also set the precedent of 'bad guys love superweapons' which led to the EU introducing several dozen...
The PT seems like its set in an entirely different universe. The only consistency is that everyone is a moron for the sake of plot. Oh, and somehow a million or so clones is a sufficient army for a galactic war. At least the EU Imperial Fleet of 1000~ Star Destroyers gets the scale right.
Star Wars has some stunning aesthetics and decent themes, but in terms of storytelling it's flat out bad.
It pains me to admit it but you’re right. As amazing as it is, Star Wars is a bit of a mess story telling wise.
I am excited for this golden age thing they are doing just because it's going to an age when nobody is connected to anything and we can have a whole new set of stories that don't have to replicate the old crap or build towards it.
Likewise, I wish they would jump forward like 500-800 years. I don't want any character that is connected to any other character from the past. Tell new stories in the new now.
Lance845 wrote: I am excited for this golden age thing they are doing just because it's going to an age when nobody is connected to anything and we can have a whole new set of stories that don't have to replicate the old crap or build towards it.
As long as it doesn't devolve into the same old stuff like KotoR did. Same old Republic vs Empire in not-Tie-Fighters and not-Star Destroyers vs not-A-wings and etc, smugglers in YT-not-the-Millenium Falcon, honest!
I won't be terribly surprised if they tread old ground with new faces. Oh look, its Hoth and Tattoinne and etc with new (old) sets! And this is the story about how Wampas were originally transported to Hoth in the first place, because that 'desperately' needs to be explained to the audience.
I’d love a story set thousands of years in the past, with things ‘different’ to show that. Ships that have to prepare to launch. Bullet weapons as opposed to blasters. More ‘metals’ as opposed to plastics. The creation of the Jedi etc.
Future War Cultist wrote: I’d love a story set thousands of years in the past, with things ‘different’ to show that. Ships that have to prepare to launch. Bullet weapons as opposed to blasters. More ‘metals’ as opposed to plastics. The creation of the Jedi etc.
You mean even more thousands of years in the past? Because 4000 or so is the time period of the KotoR setting. And thanks to comics, games and EU stuff, there's even more 'Sith Empires' to challenge the Galactic Republic before AND after that.
Basically all dates are Before the Battle of Yavin (BBY) or, basically, the original film.
The simplified timeline:
28000 BBY the actual Sith Species forms a Sith empire and does Sithy things. It doesn't interact with the Republic that may or may not exist.
various things happen that don't really matter
Around 7000 BBY the 'Sith Empire' is restored after a civil war, and about a hundred years later runs into Dark Jedi, and ground is laid for future conflicts, but basically the Empire and Republic don't interact until 5000 BBY
At 5000 BBY, we have the first real war- the Great Hyperspace War, between Republic and Empire
At 4000 BBY, Exar Kun has the Great Sith War
3976 is KotoR 1, Revan and Malak and their mini-Sith Empire after the Mandalorian Wars
3653 is the Great Galactic War (Knights of the Old Republic MMO)
2000 has the 'New Sith Empire'
1000 has the short lived 'Brotherhood of Darkness,' standard story of fallen jedi becoming 'sith'
19 is the Galactic Empire as we know it from the films.
To give some frame of reference, when it comes to the Sith Civilization, their 'pre-industrial age' is about 30,000 BBY. And they're defeating a galactic empire a mere 2000 years later and co-opting their tech. They 'regress' to a more primitive state around 14000 BBY, but quickly get over that and are out into space again, but fall to the 'superior technology' of Dark Jedi around 7000.
Everything from about 5000 on (and definitely 4000 onwards) is basically Sith Empire not-Star Destroyers and not-Tie Fighters fighting various Republic ships in the exact same kind of battles.
The technology not changing isn't a problem for me. Starwars isn't sci fi. It's fantasy in space. Essentially they are all elves who, despite living for thousands of years individually, are still using swords and bows.
You can go 10k years in the past or 10k years in the future and everything will still be the same way. WWI dog fighting in space with the same blasters, the same shields, and the same light sabers. It might get a different style in different ages but it all functions the same.
Lance845 wrote: The technology not changing isn't a problem for me. Starwars isn't sci fi. It's fantasy in space.
That's understandable, particularly in regards to just the movies.
But the other media, particularly the games, shows and novels are dealing with 'breakthroughs' and 'advancements' all over the place. New super weapons, new shields, new fuels, new engines, whatever.
The most movie relevant thing I can think of is the B-wing, which was developed between V and VI and is basically a god tier fighter. Its just a background model in Jedi, but when Rebels does its episode on it, it is portrayed as a must-have literal game-changer.
Yet jump back to the sequels and everyone is back to Xwings vs Tie Fighters (bar specialist ships like the Bombers from Planet Stupid), with basically a few aesthetic tweaks.
And a huge chunk of Rebels was devoted to the crew wetting themselves over the new Tie Fighter model, and how much difference it would make against the Rebellion. And then the insta-kill weapon platform against Mandalorian armor. Tech advancement meant a lot in that show.
Lance845 wrote: The technology not changing isn't a problem for me. Starwars isn't sci fi. It's fantasy in space.
That's understandable, particularly in regards to just the movies.
But the other media, particularly the games, shows and novels are dealing with 'breakthroughs' and 'advancements' all over the place. New super weapons, new shields, new fuels, new engines, whatever.
Yeah but those "break throughs" are often either rediscoveries of things that already existed thousands of years ago or are just new ways of doing the same thing they were already doing on a bigger scale. The Death Star is nowhere near the first planet killing weapon in star wars. And Star Killer is just a bigger Death Star.
The most movie relevant thing I can think of is the B-wing, which was developed between V and VI and is basically a god tier fighter. Its just a background model in Jedi, but when Rebels does its episode on it, it is portrayed as a must-have literal game-changer. Yet jump back to the sequels and everyone is back to Xwings vs Tie Fighters (bar specialist ships like the Bombers from Planet Stupid), with basically a few aesthetic tweaks.
And a huge chunk of Rebels was devoted to the crew wetting themselves over the new Tie Fighter model, and how much difference it would make against the Rebellion. And then the insta-kill weapon platform against Mandalorian armor. Tech advancement meant a lot in that show.
Ive only seen bits of rebels. But again, how much of anything the Empire did was actually new when stacked up against things like KOTOR? It's not like Ties are actually the fastest single man fighters that have ever been built. They are just the fastest the empire was mass producing. (Interceptors I assume?) Droids are arguably the most advanced tech in the entire galaxy and they haven't changed at all in the entire history of the universe we have seen. If you take IG-88s story from tales of the bounty hunters as canon you COULD argue that it/they are the single most advanced AI except that it's actually nothing new. Just a new way to do something that became outlawed because it produces IG-88s and other sources make an argument that IG-88 is just a modified source code of HK-47.
And all of that is besides the fact that we are talking about samurai wizards fighting against an evil wizard emperor whos black knight kidnapped a princess.
Future War Cultist wrote: I’d love a story set thousands of years in the past, with things ‘different’ to show that. Ships that have to prepare to launch. Bullet weapons as opposed to blasters. More ‘metals’ as opposed to plastics. The creation of the Jedi etc.
At least in the RPGs there are 'normal' firearms. But given some of the odd properties of blasters and how the few slugthrowers that exist in the setting preform, which is to say poorly, I suspect that the Star Wars universe actually doesn't have smokeless powder and instead is stuck on black powder. Either because it hasn't been discovered or its not possible to create because of some unknown reason.
I think that Firearms as they exist in the real world never existed at all in Star Wars. Instead, someone developed the plasma throwers which are called blasters, which fire subsonic bolts of plasma, after presumably many thousands of years with black powder firearms. Which would explain why slugthrowers, despite having a few substantial benefits over blasters, are extremely rare.
Black powder firearms get dirty very quickly, which fouls moving parts. Meaning it is very difficult to have any type of self-loading firearm which uses black powder cartridges, the small mechanical components build up grime and eventually need to be cleaned much more quickly than smokeless powder does. This is the main reason we didn't need self-loading repeating firearms become common till smokeless powder was invented. They did exist prior, but they weren't as practical.
I think Star Wars got stuck on this level of development till blasters got invented. A weapon which can be fired much more rapidly, even though it suffers in projectile velocity and overall range. Because if Star Wars had ever developed smokeless powder, blasters would be pretty bad compared to self-loading firearms using smokeless powder. You would still see them, but it would be a much more tilted mixture.
Just look at any of the combats we see in the movies or shows. If either side in those conflicts had real world firearms they would utterly wreck the side with blasters, just in the accuracy department alone. Blasters clearly have terrible accuracy and effective range compared to real firearms. So the only explanation is that nobody in Star Wars ever invented the thing that makes real guns work so well, smokeless powder.
The accuracy aspect of blasters is inconsistent. HK from KotOR has a line about delivering headshots from several kilometers away. IIRC it was exponentially more than the current sniper record.
Star Wars originated as an homage to Flash Gordon and other lite Sci-Fi serials. It runs on the rule of cool. A very general issue with storytelling across the board is ignoring common sense for the sake of the plot, even if it means breaking in universe rules. A good example of this is the wide beam setting of a phaser basically never used in Star Trek. https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/38526/why-is-the-wide-beam-phaser-setting-not-used-very-often Or even advanced space faring races engaging in CQC at all.
Which is why it's all fantasy in space. There is no logic or science in anything in star wars. Without the science it's not sci fi. It's just fiction. Toss in the magic and it's just fantasy.
trexmeyer wrote: Logic doesn't dictate whether or not something is fantasy and not all science fiction contains logical behavior by the characters.
I am not talking about logical behavior of the characters. Xwings, Ties, A wings, The Falcon, they all have engines that point direct out the back of them. But they are all capable of VTOL. How? There is nothing on the bottom of any of them that would allow them to lift off.
Science Fiction requires Science. Science has to work logically within the context of the world. Nothing in SW works logically.
The "Droid Smith" could see data in C3PO and access it by going at the back of his head with a blow torch.
If a lightsaber can burn through solid metal by heating and melting it why are Jedis hands not having the flesh melt from their bones?
Because it's not science. It's fantasy. Nothing in it works by logic or reasoning. It works because it's magic. The X-wing might as well be a fire mare. A lightsaber might as well be the glaive.
trexmeyer wrote: Logic doesn't dictate whether or not something is fantasy and not all science fiction contains logical behavior by the characters.
I am not talking about logical behavior of the characters.
Lance845 wrote:Which is why it's all fantasy in space. There is no logic or science in anything in star wars. Without the science it's not sci fi. It's just fiction. Toss in the magic and it's just fantasy.
You said logic or science. Can you see how that can muddy your intent?
trexmeyer wrote: Logic doesn't dictate whether or not something is fantasy and not all science fiction contains logical behavior by the characters.
I am not talking about logical behavior of the characters.
Lance845 wrote:Which is why it's all fantasy in space. There is no logic or science in anything in star wars. Without the science it's not sci fi. It's just fiction. Toss in the magic and it's just fantasy.
You said logic or science. Can you see how that can muddy your intent?
Sure. Can you see how, with further explanation, that the intent is now clear?
Lance845 wrote: Except the rule in cinema is show don't tell. I don't want people to TELL me Fett is cool. I want to see Fett be cool. And we never see that.
We see him stand around. Say about 7 words in 2 movies. Shoot like 4 feet over Lukes head (what a crack shot!), fly directly into the side of a ship the first time we see him use his jet pack, and then fall directly into a giant monster butt hole in the sand.
He's useless. He looks great. Agreed. But he's nothing and he does nothing.
Sorry if this has been posted before, but a really great article written by Aaron Dembski-Bowden on this topic and is well worth a read
"If I can locate other Mandalorians they can guide me" I can only think of one Mandaloirian who could help find a Jedi in the time period we're talking about........
It was absolutely fantastic!
And yeah tons of referances
Spoiler:
Like how they originally tried to use the trick Revan used in KOTOR to kill a Krayt dragon.
And Boba Fett's apperance right at the end bodes VERY intreasting for the future. I can't want to see him and the Mandalorian go toe to toe (you KNOW it's coming)
When he explained the plan I thought that was dumb and overly complicated and that they should have just done the thing he ended up doing from the start.
Also I have to laugh at a friend of mine who disputes that this is a western. Like be straight up makes the sound of Spurs when he walks.
AduroT wrote: When he explained the plan I thought that was dumb and overly complicated and that they should have just done the thing he ended up doing from the start.
.
Spoiler:
the plan makes a lot more sense when you realize it was a call back to KOTOR
Loved it, can’t wait for the next episode. Don’t want to say much about it on here really for the peeps that haven’t seen it yet. Enjoyed the nods and the reveal at the end....
xKillGorex wrote: Loved it, can’t wait for the next episode. Don’t want to say much about it on here really for the peeps that haven’t seen it yet. Enjoyed the nods and the reveal at the end....
I'm wondering if that's going to be the seasons big antagionist
Mando's handling of Gor Koresh was darker than anything I recall from S1.
I know the swinging holster looks cool but it's a terrible idea and you can't draw from one for gak if it's a remotely tight fit.
Mando's armor >>> Boba Fett's armor.
Looks like Dune released early.
Edit: Also, WEEQUAY
Edit2: I guessed it would be the imagining of a Krayt Dragon as soon as I saw it. Called it if only for myself.
Edit3: I really like how this guy has repurposed so many items. Nice callbacks.
Edit: Final observations.
Spoiler:
I like the callbacks to KOTOR and RTJ (Mando hitting the jetpack).
Nice Krayt Dragon Pearl.
Guy at the end is absolutely Boba Fett.
This is show is great. Particularly because it doesn't try to be more than what it is.
guy at the end is temura morrison so... yeah that's Boba Fett.... or they're deliberatly faking us out and he's actually a clone looking for fett, but yeah... totally fett
AduroT wrote: Also I have to laugh at a friend of mine who disputes that this is a western. Like be straight up makes the sound of Spurs when he walks.
Yeah even the Tusken Raiders are recontextualized as Native Americans. Real cowboys and Indians style western story
For some reason that Krayt Dragon at first made me think of the monsters from the movie Tremors, before we got a good look at it.
Spoiler:
Loved some of the winks and nods at different things. The KOTOR references particularly, like the pearl and stuff. Interesting portrayal of the Tusken Raiders as being analogous of Native Americans, although they'd already shown that in the first season. The other things I liked were the appearance of previously established species that were seldom shown, like Weequay and Abyssin.
And the overall plan. Remember, it was the Tusken’s plan. And as The Mando said, they are the experts.
It’s also at least Legends Canon that the Tusken’s form a serious bond with their Bantha’s. It may be that this tribe simply didn’t consider themselves to have Bantha’s to spare.
Given how terse the alliance was, it probably made sense to follow the Tusken’s lead on that one?
guy at the end is temura morrison so... yeah that's Boba Fett.... or they're deliberatly faking us out and he's actually a clone looking for fett, but yeah... totally fett
Spoiler:
They could be faking us out. Boba (checking Wookieepedia) was around 32 at the time of Yavin.
Endorse was 4 ABY, so Boba was around 36 when he made a tasty snack.
Mando is 9 ABY, so Boba would be 41 (slightly older than I).
Given a life of action, and the toll that takes on a body? Almost certainly Boba, rather than a Clone. Even the youngest of Clones (one produced in 22ABY, when the Republic fell would be.....31 natural years, but aged to what, 25 for combat duties? Certainly Rex looked a good deal older on Endor.
So regular clones would be around 80 biological years old by now, even back in Rebels days they must have been around 60 and weren't exactly the most spry guys in the galaxy.
I can buy Boba looking like that at 42, especially after a quick bath in Sarlaac digestive juices.
And the overall plan. Remember, it was the Tusken’s plan. And as The Mando said, they are the experts.
It’s also at least Legends Canon that the Tusken’s form a serious bond with their Bantha’s. It may be that this tribe simply didn’t consider themselves to have Bantha’s to spare.
Given how terse the alliance was, it probably made sense to follow the Tusken’s lead on that one?
guy at the end is temura morrison so... yeah that's Boba Fett.... or they're deliberatly faking us out and he's actually a clone looking for fett, but yeah... totally fett
Spoiler:
They could be faking us out. Boba (checking Wookieepedia) was around 32 at the time of Yavin.
Endorse was 4 ABY, so Boba was around 36 when he made a tasty snack.
Mando is 9 ABY, so Boba would be 41 (slightly older than I).
Given a life of action, and the toll that takes on a body? Almost certainly Boba, rather than a Clone. Even the youngest of Clones (one produced in 22ABY, when the Republic fell would be.....31 natural years, but aged to what, 25 for combat duties? Certainly Rex looked a good deal older on Endor.
They had at least one to spare since there was the failed feeding.
guy at the end is temura morrison so... yeah that's Boba Fett.... or they're deliberatly faking us out and he's actually a clone looking for fett, but yeah... totally fett
Spoiler:
They could be faking us out. Boba (checking Wookieepedia) was around 32 at the time of Yavin.
Endorse was 4 ABY, so Boba was around 36 when he made a tasty snack.
Mando is 9 ABY, so Boba would be 41 (slightly older than I).
Given a life of action, and the toll that takes on a body? Almost certainly Boba, rather than a Clone. Even the youngest of Clones (one produced in 22ABY, when the Republic fell would be.....31 natural years, but aged to what, 25 for combat duties? Certainly Rex looked a good deal older on Endor.
The clones had accelerated growth and other augments. Boba was unaugmented and did not have the accelerated aging of the clones bred for the GAR, so would presumably only age at the normal rate. Rex looked older at Endor because as a clone trooper, he had the "accelerated aging" thing.
The clones had accelerated growth and other augments. Boba was unaugmented and did not have the accelerated aging of the clones bred for the GAR, so would presumably only age at the normal rate. Rex looked older at Endor because as a clone trooper, he had the "accelerated aging" thing.
Yeah, the movie even takes the time to make a big deal about this despite being one of those things best left to the EU.
Hrm liked it but annoyed at the side-side-side quest nature of the plot.
Mando is looking for other Mandalorians who will ask their folks who will help him find a Jedi? So this episode he shakes down a random dude, who gives him a planet, which takes him to... another dude who's not even a Mandalorian?
I thought Luke's Jedi status was kind of famous after RotJ? Or, failing that, why not go to Coracant and star with the Jedi temple? Was all evidence of the Jedi ever existing so completely wiped out that no one suggests this?
We live in an information drenched society, but SW seems like a technologically advanced low-information society. Maybe it's just the outer rim where you need to know how to survive, but you don't have free time to learn whatever you want.
bbb wrote: We live in an information drenched society, but SW seems like a technologically advanced low-information society. Maybe it's just the outer rim where you need to know how to survive, but you don't have free time to learn whatever you want.
A very good point.
But whether it's a Space Google search or a hacker in a back alley who's monitoring the hyperwaves there must be a more elegant way to find information on these 'Jedi' who were galactic peace keepers just 30 years ago and recently returned to overthrow the empire. Oh and fought a major war on Mandalore itself!
A smoother way to get this side story going might have been Mando hearing there were once some Jedi on Tatooine and heading that way. Then he hears about another Mandalorian and off the story goes. Maybe throw in something about there's too much unrest in the core systems to even think of Corocant...
I mean we'll see as the show goes on, and it is very good, but the transition from 'find the Jedi' to 'kill the sand worm' IMHO was very clumsy.
I never got the impression from the movies that Luke is especially well known. He's a mid-level field commander so he's certainly known to Rebel personnel at the base he's working, but the political and strategic side is always in the hands of other people. Generals Dodo, Ricky and Maddy, Mon Mothma, Leia's (foster) dad rather than Leia (before that little mining accident, anyway) and so forth. It's General Solo who takes out the shield generator on Endor and General Calrissian who takes out the Death Star. Importantly, that was the plan. The assassination of the Emperor wasn't planned to go down with fisticuffs. Palpi's on the Death Star, blow up the Death Star, problem solved. Luke going up there was never part of the plan. Truthfully, since I don't take Luke for someone given to bragging, I'm not sure why anyone would play up the involvement of him as a person or him as a Jedi. Thus the closest you'll get to Jedi involvement is everyone invoking the Force as a blessing, which has nothing to do with the Jedi themselves.
Rebels also made it abundantly clear that information flow inside the Rebellion was rigorously controlled. At no point did they release information about Jedi involvement to the general public but kept them hidden assets (not that the latter was particularly successful). Jedi weren't universally popular towards the end of the Clone Wars as per that show.
It may seem off that no one knows much about the Jedi anymore, but it seems like the show and movie creators certainly tried to give plausible reasons why he Jedi were so quickly forgotten, even if they didn't seem to go into the Imperial propaganda side of things so much on screen. I consider it just something to accept about the world and not question it too deeply.
bbb wrote: Here's a quick test. Ask a 20 year old person what they know about Margaret Thatcher, Mikhail Gorbachev, Pope John Paul II, and The Berlin Wall.
Ask a bounty hunter looking for... oh ex-Soviet officers what he knows about the Soviet Union.
Just got to watch the new episode finally, that was fantastic!
Loved all the references made throughout.
Spoiler:
Interesting to note in the artwork in the end credits have Boba Fett with the Mando instead of the Marshal. I wonder when the artwork was drawn versus when the storyline was written
My understanding is the artwork comes first, as part of the storyboarding process. So
Spoiler:
it's not Boba Fett, they just didn't have the Marshall's look in Fett's armour fully fleshed out at that point.
The Marshall was actually the one part of this episode I found a little disappointing. Between the bright red undershirt and the fact that the armour fit him so badly, he wasn't just obviously not Boba Fett even at a first glance, it was barely recognisable as Fett's armour when he first appears. I can't help thinking his entrance would have had a much bigger impact if he had actually looked like Fett, as he does in the artwork.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Well, remember that Han, who was born during the Republic and Clone Wars era, hadn’t heard of The Force.
Which still doesn't make any sense.
I do find it bizarre how the franchise bounces back and forth on this issue. It needs to pick a lane, or create a more coherent pastiche.
There are times where it seems like the Force and the Jedi are common knowledge, if something not everyone believes is real (the movies mostly), and there are times where it's treated like no one in the galaxy has heard of it (some of the new and old EU material). Usually it's whatever is convenient for the narrative, and I feel like it makes the franchise seem unplanned and poorly coordinated rather than diverse or varied.
I found it pretty bad recently too. I don't find it that egregious that Han has heard of the Force but doesn't believe it. Someone could reasonably chalk it up to tall tales. But how has Mando never heard of the Jedi? Cause the start of season 1 makes it sound like he has some idea what they are, but the end of Season 1 makes it seem like he's never heard of them before and the wisened old Mandalorian forge lady treats them like a distant story in the year 9 ABY. Even the rebel lady doesn't know about them? How has she not heard about Luke Skywalker, the war hero? Even if you don't believe the stories, it makes no sense to have not heard of them. If anyone in the galaxy knows about Jedi and that they in fact did exist, it should be Mandalorians.
bbb wrote: Here's a quick test. Ask a 20 year old person what they know about Margaret Thatcher, Mikhail Gorbachev, Pope John Paul II, and The Berlin Wall.
Not even vaguely the same.
Its much more akin to asking someone if they've never even heard of the Jesuits, if that order had existed for 10,000 years, and only recently been outlawed for about 25 years or so.
And you're asking around in places that didn't give two figs about the government doing the outlawing.
Its also not even asking the person on the street a detailed history, just if they've even heard of them at all.
---
For the Mandalorian specifically, he was orphaned by the opponents of the Jedi, the big robot army that they specifically lead armies against, and he's pretty obsessive about hating droids. He never, ever looked into people that fought the droid army? Really? Never doubted Imperial propaganda that he had no reason to care about as a cultural outsider (even raised by a culture that lost their home planet to the Empire)? Not once? Hard sell.
The Jedi existed within his personal lifetime. He might well hate them for not fighting off the droids that showed up on his home planet, but know nothing about them at all? Doubtful. Very, very doubtful.
bbb wrote: Here's a quick test. Ask a 20 year old person what they know about Margaret Thatcher, Mikhail Gorbachev, Pope John Paul II, and The Berlin Wall.
Not even vaguely the same.
Its much more akin to asking someone if they've never even heard of the Jesuits, if that order had existed for 10,000 years, and only been outlawed for about 25 years or so.
And you're asking around in places that didn't give two figs about the government doing the outlawing.
Its also not even asking the person on the street a detailed history, just if they've even heard of them at all.
I think you might underestimate the number of people who haven't heard of them.
bbb wrote: Here's a quick test. Ask a 20 year old person what they know about Margaret Thatcher, Mikhail Gorbachev, Pope John Paul II, and The Berlin Wall.
Ask a bounty hunter looking for... oh ex-Soviet officers what he knows about the Soviet Union.
Mando isn't some farm boy.
except in this case the Mando's NOT hunting Jedi. also yet again you're using modern times as an example.
Imagine if you would living in a world where the internet was shut down for civilian use 40 years ago. where the only news from the outside are people coming in from ships and the local news station that's basicly run by "Space Josuph Gobbels" supression of information would be REALLY easy. especially for something that was almost legendary already. there where after all, at their HEIGHT, only 10,000 jedi in the galaxy. that's "unicorn sighting" rarity levels in a galatic society
bbb wrote: Here's a quick test. Ask a 20 year old person what they know about Margaret Thatcher, Mikhail Gorbachev, Pope John Paul II, and The Berlin Wall.
Ask a bounty hunter looking for... oh ex-Soviet officers what he knows about the Soviet Union.
Mando isn't some farm boy.
except in this case the Mando's NOT hunting Jedi. also yet again you're using modern times as an example.
Imagine if you would living in a world where the internet was shut down for civilian use 40 years ago. where the only news from the outside are people coming in from ships and the local news station that's basicly run by "Space Josuph Gobbels" supression of information would be REALLY easy. especially for something that was almost legendary already. there where after all, at their HEIGHT, only 10,000 jedi in the galaxy. that's "unicorn sighting" rarity levels in a galatic society
Jedi-Sith wars are the basis for galactic history. An 'internet' doesn't matter for this. [People got along just fine without it for most of history. They still knew things about the world, even if they were long ago and far away]
We're talking about the living memory of people being longer than the 'ban' on Jedi, and the Jedi being a fundamental cornerstone of the Republic.
"For over a thousand generations the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic."
This isn't some secret history, they're inextricably linked to the Galactic Republic that's existed for time out of mind.
Doubt their magic? Some of the deeds they're credited with? Sure. Absolutely. Complete galactic-wide ignorance because of very temporary Empire, that lasted for maybe a third of the lifespan of living people? Stuff and nonsense.
Voss wrote: Jedi-Sith wars are the basis for galactic history.
They were, in the EU.
I don't think the current continuity has re-established much of that yet, other than the fact that some of the big-name Sith existed. And, again, that history only matters to those who were taught it. Most of the regular folk on the outer rim wouldn't have been.
"For over a thousand generations the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic."
Which is something that Obi Wan was explaining to Luke, as if it wasn't common knowledge.
Really, the problem here is that Lucas chose to have the Jedi still being too central to the Republic in the Prequels. If the 'thousand generations' had been in times gone by, and by the time of the Prequels the Jedi were a fallen, almost extinct order, everything that happens after in the timeline makes a lot more sense. Hell, how much more of an impact would the battle between Obi Wan and Anakin have if they were the last two Jedi Knights?
Voss wrote: Jedi-Sith wars are the basis for galactic history.
They were, in the EU.
I don't think the current continuity has re-established much of that yet, other than the fact that some of the big-name Sith existed. And, again, that history only matters to those who were taught it. Most of the regular folk on the outer rim wouldn't have been.
As to the first, it doesn't matter. Those scenes and films were shot with that history in mind. I don't care about retcon land when they're bringing most of it back anyway. Long term Jedi/Sith conflict is all over Rebels (the webway network episodes particularly, even to the point of bring back elements of the hilariously dumb Force Demigods story), and super-immortal Palpatine in the new trilogy and feth knows what else.
As to that latter, that's a _very_ weird assumption. Why would middle and upper class people not be taught history?
"For over a thousand generations the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic."
Which is something that Obi Wan was explaining to Luke, as if it wasn't common knowledge.
No, that was something explained to the audience by way of the Callow Youth, a very basic film/story technique. Having a handy ignorant moppet to tell the audience basic facts you want them to know is a really easy gimmick.
Luke is also raised by an uncle with Something to Hide- 'Too much of his father in him'
You'll note that Luke just accepts it all as reasonable, objecting only when Obi-wan tries to get him to help.
Really, the problem here is that Lucas chose to have the Jedi still being too central to the Republic in the Prequels.
Nope, that was one of the few examples of Lucas actually remembering the story he originally created, and being consistent between the OT and the prequels.
If the 'thousand generations' had been in times gone by, and by the time of the Prequels the Jedi were a fallen, almost extinct order, everything that happens after in the timeline makes a lot more sense. Hell, how much more of an impact would the battle between Obi Wan and Anakin have if they were the last two Jedi Knights?
It would have mattered less. An order of two battling to death long after everyone else died out is functionally the same as two random idiots fighting for no reason whatsoever.
As to the first, it doesn't matter. Those scenes and films were shot with that history in mind. I don't care about retcon land when they're bringing most of it back anyway. Long term Jedi/Sith conflict is all over Rebels (the webway network episodes particularly, even to the point of bring back elements of the hilariously dumb Force Demigods story), and super-immortal Palpatine in the new trilogy and feth knows what else.
But that's just it - the easter eggs scattered here and there establish that the Jedi-Sith conflict has been going on for a while. It doesn't establish that it's something that was widely known about. In a galaxy where entire star systems can go 'missing' without anyone noticing, it's easy enough to imagine that the Jedi-Sith wars would have gone largely un-noticed by those not directly affected by them.
As to that latter, that's a _very_ weird assumption. Why would middle and upper class people not be taught history?
Because it doesn't matter?
My school history lessons covered only the very bare bones of the histories of countries other than my own, and ignored entirely a pretty large swathe of the world. Multiply that by the distance between star systems.
Nope, that was one of the few examples of Lucas actually remembering the story he originally created, and being consistent between the OT and the prequels.
Except it wasn't, because as discussed up the thread a ways, for the Jedi to have been that prominent in the Clone Wars, they should have been more widely known about afterwards given how many people were still around who remembered the Clone Wars.
It would have mattered less. An order of two battling to death long after everyone else died out is functionally the same as two random idiots fighting for no reason whatsoever.
It's not, though. It's two final champions fighting to determine whether their order might conceivably survive to be reborn, or be snuffed out entirely. Or, to put it another way, pretty much exactly the situation that is set up over the course of the original Trilogy as we're slowly told what (at that point) these Jedi folk were all about.
The end result has much more impact than the 'the Jedi Order is destroyed, except for all of the Jedi who are still running around right up until the time of the Rebellion, despite the original movies telling us that Luke is the last one...' situation that we got instead.
YMMV, obviously. Ultimately it doesn't matter... the prequels are what they are. I'm just spitballing here.
What if their numbers were reduced to no more than a couple of hundred? Hell, have a subplot that involves a death squad operating under Palpatine that is eliminating or indoctrinating force-sensitives.
As to the first, it doesn't matter. Those scenes and films were shot with that history in mind. I don't care about retcon land when they're bringing most of it back anyway. Long term Jedi/Sith conflict is all over Rebels (the webway network episodes particularly, even to the point of bring back elements of the hilariously dumb Force Demigods story), and super-immortal Palpatine in the new trilogy and feth knows what else.
But that's just it - the easter eggs scattered here and there establish that the Jedi-Sith conflict has been going on for a while. It doesn't establish that it's something that was widely known about. In a galaxy where entire star systems can go 'missing' without anyone noticing, it's easy enough to imagine that the Jedi-Sith wars would have gone largely un-noticed by those not directly affected by them.
Rebels had a whole pack of archaeologists and a pile of support staff researching a Jedi site. What you're saying is not compatible with what we're shown.
As to that latter, that's a _very_ weird assumption. Why would middle and upper class people not be taught history?
Because it doesn't matter?
My school history lessons covered only the very bare bones of the histories of countries other than my own, and ignored entirely a pretty large swathe of the world. Multiply that by the distance between star systems.
Then you have my condolences on your terrible history education. And I say that as an American.
Knowing nothing about the 'Great Hyperspace Wars' is akin to complete ignorance of the World Wars. Not the details, but that they ever happened.
Nope, that was one of the few examples of Lucas actually remembering the story he originally created, and being consistent between the OT and the prequels.
Except it wasn't, because as discussed up the thread a ways, for the Jedi to have been that prominent in the Clone Wars, they should have been more widely known about afterwards given how many people were still around who remembered the Clone Wars.
Given how _few_ 'normal people' we're introduced to in the OT (and afterwards), I don't know how you're coming to this conclusion.
Especially given how many people in the rebel alliance toss 'may the force be with you' around like a catch phrase. Leia says it in addressing normal troopers, not just among the protagonists. That suggests any given trooper Joe has at least some conception of what she's babbling about.
And later on (in various shows, books, games, etc) we _are_ introduced to uninvolved people who do know about them, so... I'm completely lost. Again what you're saying isn't what we're shown, regardless of what has been discussed 'upthread'
It would have mattered less. An order of two battling to death long after everyone else died out is functionally the same as two random idiots fighting for no reason whatsoever.
It's not, though. It's two final champions fighting to determine whether their order might conceivably survive to be reborn, or be snuffed out entirely. Or, to put it another way, pretty much exactly the situation that is set up over the course of the original Trilogy as we're slowly told what (at that point) these Jedi folk were all about.
We're told what they're about in the first scene they're mentioned in the first movie. The confrontation at the end of the trilogy is a personal, emotional one, the order of monks is largely a sidenote.
The end result has much more impact than the 'the Jedi Order is destroyed, except for all of the Jedi who are still running around right up until the time of the Rebellion, despite the original movies telling us that Luke is the last one...' situation that we got instead.
All those? I can think of... four? And one is an ex-jedi (which itself was weird, but whatever). Does that undermine the confrontation? Not really. Its a fair bit more believable than a perfectly executed galactic scale extermination of people with flashes of precognition.
YMMV, obviously.
Yeah, lets go with that. I just can't conceive of the entire population of the SW galaxy as the most ignorant people to ever exist in any universe, and the entire adult population forgets anything that happened 30 years before, regardless of whether or not they saw it with their own eyes.
It just doesn't work for me, so its a very weak plot element for the Mandalorian.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Well, remember that Han, who was born during the Republic and Clone Wars era, hadn’t heard of The Force.
Which still doesn't make any sense.
I do find it bizarre how the franchise bounces back and forth on this issue. It needs to pick a lane, or create a more coherent pastiche.
There are times where it seems like the Force and the Jedi are common knowledge, if something not everyone believes is real (the movies mostly), and there are times where it's treated like no one in the galaxy has heard of it (some of the new and old EU material). Usually it's whatever is convenient for the narrative, and I feel like it makes the franchise seem unplanned and poorly coordinated rather than diverse or varied.
I found it pretty bad recently too. I don't find it that egregious that Han has heard of the Force but doesn't believe it. Someone could reasonably chalk it up to tall tales. But how has Mando never heard of the Jedi? Cause the start of season 1 makes it sound like he has some idea what they are, but the end of Season 1 makes it seem like he's never heard of them before and the wisened old Mandalorian forge lady treats them like a distant story in the year 9 ABY. Even the rebel lady doesn't know about them? How has she not heard about Luke Skywalker, the war hero? Even if you don't believe the stories, it makes no sense to have not heard of them. If anyone in the galaxy knows about Jedi and that they in fact did exist, it should be Mandalorians.
Yeah. Its like Star Wars want to be a setting kinda like 40k where there are many hundreds or thousands of years between important plot points so they can get "ancient lore plot point" check boxes, but at the same time all of the relevant plot points are actually happening within living memory of each other with a very very small group of people.
Now incongruousness like the average Joe on the street not knowing or believing in the Force can be explained. Its a big galaxy, not everybody has left their home planet, so one person might be totally clueless while another might have heard a bunch. But major recent galactic events are not something that could be so easily forgotten.
By making the Jedi so very high profile during the Clone War, it undermined the lack of public understanding of the Jedi during the Empire. To fix it, either the Jedi needed to be lower profile. Maybe operating in the shadows as covert operatives instead of generals. OR they needed the Clone War to be another 100+ years in the past and handwaive Obi-wan and Vader being around by just saying the Force users in general age much much slower and live much longer than normal.
The Mandalorians would still of course be telling tales of their past to the new generations. They would never forget the Jedi. Maybe the newer generations would see them more as mythical foes of the past and not have understanding of exactly what they're about, but they would at least have a frame of reference to who and what they are.
Bit of a quieter episode, overall. But it spent time reenforcing Mando’s own slice of the galaxy, with call backs to Season 1.
And I do believe those bugs to be at least cousins of those from Chopper Base in Rebels?
I’m happy with that! Roll on next Friday!
Spoiler:
the bugs are based off some unused concept art from TESB, so I'm not sure if they where related or just reused several times it was a decent episode but not as good as the last. but that wasn't because it was bad but just ebcause that frist episode was so good it set a high bar
Then you have my condolences on your terrible history education. And I say that as an American.
Knowing nothing about the 'Great Hyperspace Wars' is akin to complete ignorance of the World Wars. Not the details, but that they ever happened.
.
WHAT great hyperspace war?
you mean the one from legends that is no longer part of canon?
This one served as cement for what came before - showing that Action A will have Consequence B in due course - stitching it all together into a narrative quilt.
Don’t you judge my metaphors!
Spoiler:
Also a fan of the Republic Pilot’s showing pragmatism in difficult times. Gave a different vibe to “oh bugger, the Empire have caught up with me”. Such a simple touch, but a nice way to show the changing Galaxy.
The writing for filler episodes needs to get better. Visually impressive as always, but the writing was not good.
Spoiler:
The lone positive is that it does some worldbuilding for the New Republic, but that worldbuilding is somewhat contradictory to the Sequel Trilogy.
How does the New Republic go from running X-Wing patrols in the Tatooine System to basically not existing outside of a handful of planets in TFA?
Also, does anyone realize that sub-light speed means that they will take forever to get anywhere?
Honestly, I feel like the sequel trilogy needs to be invalidated even more than the prequels.
The prequels sucked but at least there was a logic to them. The sequel trilogy is senseless in its world building. Most of the Disney movies actually have been rather senseless in terms of world building.
The New Republic being a handful of planets was a wtf moment. If the New Republic was just a handful of planets, why did the First Order even care? Why did anyone care? That would represent a total failure of the Rebellion's goals and would have already made them irrelevant in itself.
I can tolerate some things. Sublight speeds are slow as feth but there's a lot of speeds that are still sublight. Realistically we're still talking about years of travel subject to relativity, but space fantasy is fantasy so whatever.
The space cops were just kind of weird though.
Spoiler:
You're under arrest! But don't make us shoot you (it's kind of weird to watch given, other things, actually). Then 30 minutes later, you would be under arrest because you totally broke the law but you don't seem like such a bad guy so we gonna let you go.
If I were Mando, I'd have been furious.
What was the point of any of this gak if you were just going to let him go? Why even bother chasing him in the first place?
LordofHats wrote: Honestly, I feel like the sequel trilogy needs to be invalidated even more than the prequels.
The prequels sucked but at least there was a logic to them. The sequel trilogy is senseless in its world building. Most of the Disney movies actually have been rather senseless in terms of world building.
The New Republic being a handful of planets was a wtf moment. If the New Republic was just a handful of planets, why did the First Order even care? Why did anyone care? That would represent a total failure of the Rebellion's goals and would have already made them irrelevant in itself.
I can tolerate some things. Sublight speeds are slow as feth but there's a lot of speeds that are still sublight. Realistically we're still talking about years of travel subject to relativity, but space fantasy is fantasy so whatever.
The space cops were just kind of weird though.
Spoiler:
You're under arrest! But don't make us shoot you (it's kind of weird to watch given, other things, actually). Then 30 minutes later, you would be under arrest because you totally broke the law but you don't seem like such a bad guy so we gonna let you go.
If I were Mando, I'd have been furious.
What was the point of any of this gak if you were just going to let him go? Why even bother chasing him in the first place?
except they never DID say they wanted to arrest him. they asked him if he was involved in an incident and he bolted. they chased but it's worth noting they held fire. very big contrast to the empire I'd say
and yeah I agree the sequal trilogy didn't make much sense, the world building there SUCKED.
Not the best episode, but credit where credit is due for the spectacular visuals and the bit of world building we got. That definitely made it feel a lot more immersive and made up for the somewhat odd approach they took to the story.
Forgive me for not being a Star Wars close followers, is the timeline for the Mandalorian = when Yoda was young or long after the Empire has fallen? I get all these young Yoda, then there is supposedly Baba-fett...
Big Mac wrote: Forgive me for not being a Star Wars close followers, is the timeline for the Mandalorian = when Yoda was young or long after the Empire has fallen? I get all these young Yoda, then there is supposedly Baba-fett...
I believe it is 9 years after A New Hope. Might be 9 years after Return of the Jedi. IDR off the top of my head, but it after the Original Trilogy.
This might be snarky, but Google could have answered that question faster. "Baby Yoda" isn't Yoda.
Big Mac wrote: Forgive me for not being a Star Wars close followers, is the timeline for the Mandalorian = when Yoda was young or long after the Empire has fallen? I get all these young Yoda, then there is supposedly Baba-fett...
This happens several years after the Empire has fallen, but before the newest sequel trilogy. So the New Republic has basically just been established, the First Order doesn't exist yet.
Big Mac wrote: Forgive me for not being a Star Wars close followers, is the timeline for the Mandalorian = when Yoda was young or long after the Empire has fallen? I get all these young Yoda, then there is supposedly Baba-fett...
I believe it is 9 years after A New Hope. Might be 9 years after Return of the Jedi. IDR off the top of my head, but it after the Original Trilogy.
This might be snarky, but Google could have answered that question faster. "Baby Yoda" isn't Yoda.
Indeed. The character's proper name per episode credits is 'The Child'.
Big Mac wrote: Forgive me for not being a Star Wars close followers, is the timeline for the Mandalorian = when Yoda was young or long after the Empire has fallen? I get all these young Yoda, then there is supposedly Baba-fett...
This happens several years after the Empire has fallen, but before the newest sequel trilogy. So the New Republic has basically just been established, the First Order doesn't exist yet.
It's not completely guaranteed that the First Order will exist. There is some speculation that The Mandalorian is going to be a soft reboot of the ST. However, I don't believe it.
@LordOfHats
On the topic of reboots, I think everything outside of the OT would need to be rebooted in order to tell a coherent story in a believable universe. The current canon Star Wars suffers from a lack of verisimilitude.
This is why the old EU had the Keeper of the Holocron. We can say what we want about the quality of the franchise entries then, but the Keeper generally did their job of ensuring continuity across entries well (except when Lucas was the problem). Disney kept Leland Chee around supposedly to do just that, but it's pretty clear no one is really trying to keep things consistent or coherent. Right now individual entries are generally consistent, but as a whole franchise the canon has lots of little wtf moments.
Episode 10 was a good one overall. Some unexpected and very cool callbacks. However...
Spoiler:
Sublight travel?! Wtf? Even if the ship was only going the distance between Sol and Alpha Centauri and was capable of moving at 0.999999 the speed of light, it would take over FOUR YEARS to get there. Somebody in the writing team is clueless when it comes to realistic science. Yes, yes, Star Wars is space fantasy, not reality, but stuff like that is very immersion-breaking. SMH
The thing is, in the old Legends universe, Timothy Zahn got it right in Heir to the Empire. Luke's X-wing's hyperdrive was damaged and he ended up stuck in the void between systems. Luke knew he either had to find a way to fix it or successfully call for help or he'd never live long enough to reach the nearest star system at sublight speed. So it's not like Star Wars always gets science stuff wrong.
ZergSmasher wrote: Episode 10 was a good one overall. Some unexpected and very cool callbacks. However...
Spoiler:
Sublight travel?! Wtf? Even if the ship was only going the distance between Sol and Alpha Centauri and was capable of moving at 0.999999 the speed of light, it would take over FOUR YEARS to get there. Somebody in the writing team is clueless when it comes to realistic science. Yes, yes, Star Wars is space fantasy, not reality, but stuff like that is very immersion-breaking. SMH
The thing is, in the old Legends universe, Timothy Zahn got it right in Heir to the Empire. Luke's X-wing's hyperdrive was damaged and he ended up stuck in the void between systems. Luke knew he either had to find a way to fix it or successfully call for help or he'd never live long enough to reach the nearest star system at sublight speed. So it's not like Star Wars always gets science stuff wrong.
I know Luuuuuuuuuuuuuke (extra Us for emphasis) gets clowned, but I'll be damned if that trilogy wasn't better than just about everything Star Wars related that came after. Particularly for the post-ROTJ setting.
there's been some suggestions that even at "sublight" a ship in SW can actually break the light barrier. mostly as people try to resolve TESB's "our hyperdrive is broken.... what nearby systems can we visit?" issue
LordofHats wrote: This is why the old EU had the Keeper of the Holocron. We can say what we want about the quality of the franchise entries then, but the Keeper generally did their job of ensuring continuity across entries well (except when Lucas was the problem). Disney kept Leland Chee around supposedly to do just that, but it's pretty clear no one is really trying to keep things consistent or coherent. Right now individual entries are generally consistent, but as a whole franchise the canon has lots of little wtf moments.
Leland Chee is STILL the keeper of the holocron. He still works for lucasfilm in that capacity. Disney lets LFL pretty much run itself, the same way it lets marvel ruin its franchise with endless retellings of the same story.
BrianDavion wrote: there's been some suggestions that even at "sublight" a ship in SW can actually break the light barrier. mostly as people try to resolve TESB's "our hyperdrive is broken.... what nearby systems can we visit?" issue
Just nuke it all and start over.
This is why I loved KotOR 1 and 2. It completely divorced itself from the films while keeping the aesthetic elements that drew me in.
BrianDavion wrote: there's been some suggestions that even at "sublight" a ship in SW can actually break the light barrier. mostly as people try to resolve TESB's "our hyperdrive is broken.... what nearby systems can we visit?" issue
Technically this is resolved with the vast majority of ships in Star Wars actually having 2 hyperdrives. They have a primary drive which is the higher quality, but they also have a secondary emergency drive which is a much slower hyperdrive. To be used only to reach very close-by systems for repairs. The backup hyperdrive would take weeks or even months to travel what with the normal would only take days.
Canonically, the Millenium Falcon has a Class 0.5 Hyperdrive(Han's line saying "she'll make .5 past lightspeed") and a class 10 backup hyperdrive. The class ratings IIRC are relative ranks comparing to other hyperdrives. A Class 10 is 1/10 the speed of a Class 1. A class 0.5 is twice the speed of a class 1.
So they simply used the backup hyperdrive to get to Bespin, probably taking a few weeks to arrive. This gave Luke time to conduct a fair amount of training with Yoda. It also gave Boba time to calculate their destination and arrive there with the Empire before they did.
This system would make quite a bit of sense to have all ships have a backup hyperdrive. Space is big and if you get stuck somewhere off the beaten path you are really stuck. Putting a backup hyperdrive would be a sensible thing and probably saved countless lives.
That was my understanding of the whole "hyperdrive is broken, but we can still get to places" thing, having read various SW technical manuals over the years - including the excellent Haynes manuals.
This only ran into a massive snag when you end up in a situation where you absolutely can't use a hyperdrive.
One workaround is that in the SW universe, some distances between some planets are very small; much as I hate referring to The Forgotten Chapters, in the Force Awakens the planets that get Starkillered to death appear to be very close to each other.
Well, The Child eating a sentient creature's offspring being played for laughs certainly is horrifying
Glad I’m not the only one who thinks that!
Spoiler:
I’m starting to get a real creepy vibe from the child; an uneducated force sensitive is a very dangerous individual and I think they’re going to explore that.
I just want to say that seeing/hearing the old school T65’s just gave me chills, so awesome! I also really appreciate the Dr Who style random nightmare fuel they’re dropping in a few episodes.
Also, with the failed hyperdrive thing, I wonder if it can be used a bit like Tau FTL in 40k; you can use the drive to distort space and go faster than light, but without punching all the way through into true hyperdrive. Fast enough to travel a few light years, but not to get across the galaxy.
. For the first minute it was believable at least 
