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If they did exist and were capable of travelling large distances I doubt they would even be interested in this planet anyway. Even then this planet might not even support the other types of life that could have evolved on other planets, giving them another reason not to come here.
They probably do exist because it would kind of be unlikely for only one planet to ever evolve life.
There's a really staggeringly huge number of planets out there, so there's probably life on a few of them.
The problem is that it seems quite unlikely we'll ever get there, or that any other race would have developed the tech to leave their planet and come here. Suns are really, really far apart.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
sebster wrote:There's a really staggeringly huge number of planets out there, so there's probably life on a few of them.
The problem is that it seems quite unlikely we'll ever get there, or that any other race would have developed the tech to leave their planet and come here. Suns are really, really far apart.
That's very true, so IF THERES INTELLIGENT LIFE OUT THERE, we'd either be stone-age or future science to them, not on their level...
I believe that it's almost impossible for aliens to NOT exist, given the enormous amount of stars in the universe, and by that, the incredible amount of planets that must be orbiting said stars. As of now, we estimate the number of stars in the Milky Way alone to be in the number of 200-400 billion - if there were planets capable of supporting life around even 5% of those stars, that would mean that there would be 20,000,000 planets that could sustain life. And that's only in the Milky Way - the Andromeda Galaxy has up to 1 trillion stars, for example. With these kinds of numbers, there's very little chance that we are the only planet with life in the universe.
However, it's a sight more complicated when talking about aliens that would have the ability to visit our planet - it would take many thousands of years at least to even create a spaceship capable of traveling to another planet, let alone another solar system (we ourselves have only barely touched the Moon, which is much, much closer than Mars, the next closest semi-habitable planet); as it stands, it would take them many years to even reach Earth, and many more to return. While nowhere near impossible, it is a lot harder to accept than the simple existence of alien life - it took our planet over a billion years to even create life (if indeed it was created on-planet and not via impacts with comets and the like), and an additional 3.8 billion years to come up with a species that could venture into space, however limited in a fashion. Add in the hurdles in overcoming stellar and interstellar hazards (such as radiation), the power requirements in order to reach a sufficient enough speed to travel at a reasonable pace to another solar system (considering that traveling at the speed of light, the nearest neighboring solar system would take 4 years to get to, the power requirements would be astoundingly high), and the simple fact of why they would want to visit the Earth in particular anyway, and you have a much more difficult line of reasoning to face when discussing advanced alien life.
It is still possible, however. I personally believe that there's plenty of life out there in the stars, and that on average it'll range from very simple, early life-forms to ones that are only slightly more advanced then ourselves at this time.
/end soapbox speech
In case you couldn't tell, this topic interests me greatly.
Ouze on GW: "I'd like to be like, hey baby, you're a freak but you just got too much crazy going on, and I don't hook up with bunny boilers. But then Necrons are going to come out, and I'm going to be like damn girl, and then next thing you know, it's angry sex time again.
It's complicated."
Da Goldtoof Marauders - 2000 pts, The Sacred Host of Kai'Xili (Lizardmen) - 500 pts
So yeah, it's highly unlikely that were the only intelligent species in the universe and it's more than ARROGANT when we think of our planet as the only life supporting planet in the universe. like discovader pointed out there is an nearly endless number of planets ou there and we've only visited 4 of them iirc(mars, jupiter, venus and pluto, correct me if im wrong)
DiscoVader wrote:However, it's a sight more complicated when talking about aliens that would have the ability to visit our planet - it would take many thousands of years at least to even create a spaceship capable of traveling to another planet, let alone another solar system (we ourselves have only barely touched the Moon, which is much, much closer than Mars, the next closest semi-habitable planet); as it stands, it would take them many years to even reach Earth, and many more to return. While nowhere near impossible, it is a lot harder to accept than the simple existence of alien life - it took our planet over a billion years to even create life (if indeed it was created on-planet and not via impacts with comets and the like), and an additional 3.8 billion years to come up with a species that could venture into space, however limited in a fashion. Add in the hurdles in overcoming stellar and interstellar hazards (such as radiation), the power requirements in order to reach a sufficient enough speed to travel at a reasonable pace to another solar system (considering that traveling at the speed of light, the nearest neighboring solar system would take 4 years to get to, the power requirements would be astoundingly high), and the simple fact of why they would want to visit the Earth in particular anyway, and you have a much more difficult line of reasoning to face when discussing advanced alien life.
that's all true...so they either don't visit us because:
1)they don't ahve the technology needed for such a trip
2)They have visited us but were uninteresting
or my favorite option
3)Leading countries of this planet have had contact with Extra Terrestrial life forms since the end of WW2..there is a website on that specific topic, i'll post it here if i can find it...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/11 07:29:38
sebster wrote:There's a really staggeringly huge number of planets out there, so there's probably life on a few of them.
The problem is that it seems quite unlikely we'll ever get there, or that any other race would have developed the tech to leave their planet and come here. Suns are really, really far apart.
That's very true, so IF THERES INTELLIGENT LIFE OUT THERE, we'd either be stone-age or future science to them, not on their level...
why? the aliens could evolve and advance at the same time as us, hell ther could be an alien having this same discussion millions of lightyears way, while on a board about hammer of war.
H.B.M.C. wrote:
"Balance, playtesting - a casual gamer craves not these things!" - Yoda, a casual gamer.
Three things matter in marksmanship -
location, location, location
MagickalMemories wrote:How about making another fist?
One can be, "Da Fist uv Mork" and the second can be, "Da Uvver Fist uv Mork."
Make a third, and it can be, "Da Uvver Uvver Fist uv Mork"
Eric
sebster wrote:There's a really staggeringly huge number of planets out there, so there's probably life on a few of them.
The problem is that it seems quite unlikely we'll ever get there, or that any other race would have developed the tech to leave their planet and come here. Suns are really, really far apart.
That's very true, so IF THERES INTELLIGENT LIFE OUT THERE, we'd either be stone-age or future science to them, not on their level...
why? the aliens could evolve and advance at the same time as us, hell ther could be an alien having this same discussion millions of lightyears way, while on a board about hammer of war.
You're right the chances are 344,353,758,238,642,657,327,168,250,356,729 to 1 but you're right man!
i wonder what company produces this hammer of war, im sure their rules are flawless and they care about their customers
H.B.M.C. wrote:
"Balance, playtesting - a casual gamer craves not these things!" - Yoda, a casual gamer.
Three things matter in marksmanship -
location, location, location
MagickalMemories wrote:How about making another fist?
One can be, "Da Fist uv Mork" and the second can be, "Da Uvver Fist uv Mork."
Make a third, and it can be, "Da Uvver Uvver Fist uv Mork"
Eric
Ok well take it to the next step and say there is a race or many races of aliens that are advanced enough to have not only solved the problem of faster than light travel but have also conquered dimensionality. Would they be advanced enough to observe us without making contact or letting themselves be known. I would like to believe that many UFO cases are evidence to the existence of alien life. Not evidence enough to be certain of anything, but I’d really really like there to be little green men piloting those things.
youbedead wrote:why? the aliens could evolve and advance at the same time as us, hell ther could be an alien having this same discussion millions of lightyears way, while on a board about hammer of war.
I think it's more likely that the alien is complaining about how Workshop of Games is always releasing new stuff for Marines of Space, and hasn't done anything for Elves of Darkness since Clinton of Bill was in office.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
I will go ahead and be the anti-hero for this thread. Me thinks, that with life existing on this planet being more of an anomaly than Fateweaver and Shuma agreeing on the merits of French Canada, I am a bit of a skeptic when it comes to life existing on other planets. The chances that life developed, lets not bring God into this as I don't think that it would remain civil, on this hunk of rock is something like 1 in 10 to the 32nd power. That number was created by my friend's father, and yes he is literally a rocket scientist and thinks of these types of statistics for fun. But just to prove that I am no negative nancy, I will keep an open mind that starburst did in fact find some sort of ET life.
DR:80+S(GT)G++M++B-I++Pwmhd05#+D+++A+++/sWD-R++T(Ot)DM+ How is it they live in such harmony - the billions of stars - when most men can barely go a minute without declaring war in their minds about someone they know.
- St. Thomas Aquinas
Warhammer 40K:
Alpha Legion - 15,000 pts For the Emperor!
WAAAGH! Skullhooka - 14,000 pts
Biel Tan Strikeforce - 11,000 pts
"The Eldar get no attention because the average male does not like confetti blasters, shimmer shields or sparkle lasers."
-Illeix
JEB_Stuart wrote:The chances that life developed, lets not bring God into this as I don't think that it would remain civil, on this hunk of rock is something like 1 in 10 to the 32nd power.
This hunk of rock as in a planet with oxygen, water, and a benign climate? Or this hunk of rock as in a random amalgamation of debris left over from the formation of the sun?
Ultimately, we don't know how common life is for three reasons: the the speed of light isn't high enough, we have no confirmed evidence of extraterrestrial life, and there is no clear point from which probability can be calculated.
All we know is that life exists, and that it can form under the conditions present on Earth. The best possible estimate we can generate is derived from the probability that any given planet might foster an environment comparable to our own. Now, the math isn't really all that hard, but it is incredibly tedious, and even more contentious; factoring in variables ranging from solar intensity, to planetary position in terms of AU, while also controlling for (perhaps unjustly) the possibility of complex life forming under conditions of reasonable variance. There's also the bit about unforeseen events, such as planetary impacts.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/11/11 11:16:38
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
I think the possibility of life existing somewhere else in the universe is quite high. We are unlikely ever to find it for a few reasons:
The vast distances involved: Seeing as our methods of detection are limited by the speed of light, the chances of spotting something within the lifespan of the human race is going to be vanishingly small.
What we're actually searching for: We are currently looking for things that follow our definition of life - Carbon based and communicating via various electromagnetic methods. Is it not possible, indeed likely, that life elsewhere in the universe has evolved by a wildly different set of parameters? Maybe a consciousness spread over a nebula cloud that communicates by manipulating local gravity fields?
Dunno if this sounds too far-fetched to everyone else, but it makes a kinda sense to me
P.s. Yes, i am a physicist.
1500pts
Gwar! wrote:Debate it all you want, I just report what the rules actually say. It's up to others to tie their panties in a Knot. I stopped caring long ago.
JEB_Stuart wrote:The chances that life developed, lets not bring God into this as I don't think that it would remain civil, on this hunk of rock is something like 1 in 10 to the 32nd power.
This hunk of rock as in a planet with oxygen, water, and a benign climate? Or this hunk of rock as in a random amalgamation of debris left over from the formation of the sun?
Ultimately, we don't know how common life is for three reasons: the the speed of light isn't high enough, we have no confirmed evidence of extraterrestrial life, and there is no clear point from which probability can be calculated.
All we know is that life exists, and that it can form under the conditions present on Earth. The best possible estimate we can generate is derived from the probability that any given planet might foster an environment comparable to our own. Now, the math isn't really all that hard, but it is incredibly tedious, and even more contentious; factoring in variables ranging from solar intensity, to planetary position in terms of AU, while also controlling for (perhaps unjustly) the possibility of complex life forming under conditions of reasonable variance. There's also the bit about unforeseen events, such as planetary impacts.
Yes, what Dogma said (although he said it much more coherently than I could have)
Except for one point: Doesn't Bode's Law account for solar intensity and planetary position? It has been a while and it was not my main area of study so I'm certainly not up on it but I thought that was a fairly solid hypothesis (if based only on our observations of our own Solar System).
[EDIT] Strike that! I just looked up Titius-Bodes law and I am CLEARLY thinking about something else. I am wrong. I remember it having to do with a zone of development or something because Venus is too hot and Mars is too cold but Earth is just right, yadda yadda yadda or something along those lines.
Never mind my half-assed attempt at Astronomy (I did say it has been a while).
And yes, I believe in alien life just not sure whether they could actually visit us or not.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2009/11/11 14:11:30
I went to see the 4th kind on sunday thinking hmm...maybe this docu-movie will help me decide what i think about all this. I now think that, alaska is scary and i'm still undecided.
quote=Horst]well no sane woman will let you crap on her chest, or suck off a donkey for you, and sometimes you just need to watch gak like that done by professionals.
<<< my hero
KingCracker wrote:
On a funny note tho, a family friend calls women like that rib poppers. Ya just slide it in until they start popping, then you know your there
JEB_Stuart wrote:I will go ahead and be the anti-hero for this thread. Me thinks, that with life existing on this planet being more of an anomaly than Fateweaver and Shuma agreeing on the merits of French Canada, I am a bit of a skeptic when it comes to life existing on other planets. The chances that life developed, lets not bring God into this as I don't think that it would remain civil, on this hunk of rock is something like 1 in 10 to the 32nd power. That number was created by my friend's father, and yes he is literally a rocket scientist and thinks of these types of statistics for fun. But just to prove that I am no negative nancy, I will keep an open mind that starburst did in fact find some sort of ET life.
That commercial makes me question Intelligent Life on this planet. Let alone others.
I think this is a fascinating subject. The planet Earth is an amazing place, ideally suited for life as we know it. I can't say for certain that God hasn't placed life on other planets, and in fact we really can't know the answer to this, at our present state of knowledge. The Bible is certainly silent on the issue.
As to the "life on mars" thing. They never claimed to actually find life, but claimed that they "MAY" have found signatures or that it "MIGHT" be signs of life or that it is "POSSIBLE" biological activity. It's amaziing how MAY,MIGHT, and POSSIBLE gets turned into "they found life on Mars".
GG
ps. hey look I was able to post before a thread got locked..yoohoo
Personally, I dunno how life existing elsewhere in the universe is even relevant to us, given that we'll likely never meet or communicate with it.
If you ask me, whatever space program money we spend should be 100% devoted to asteroid detection and defense. I mean, we know the mess asteroids and such have created in the past. Why not focus on the survival of our species rather than stuff like microbes or plate tectonics on Mars? Who cares if there's water on the Moon? We're not prepared to move a real population there right now, so it's not info we need right now.
NASA and co. might spend money more stupidly than any other government agency...and yes, that is saying something.
Alpha Legion - 15,000 pts For the Emperor!
WAAAGH! Skullhooka - 14,000 pts
Biel Tan Strikeforce - 11,000 pts
1500pts
