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Advice welcome from the 40k community.

My wife has been harping on me the last few weeks, repeatedly with the mantra "No one likes to lose all the time." IE, she thinks I win too much, and that if no one ever beats me, no one will want to play with me anymore. Personally, I relish the thought of losing; it would mean learning of a hole in my tactics, or a new situation to contemplate.

If she's right, my choices are either a.) To stop entering tournaments so that someone else can win, or b.) Intentionally throw games...(periodically) to give people morale boosters.


I think she's f****ing nuts. On the flip side, she generally has good advice so I want other opinions. I wouldn't like losing people to play against, but I find it hard to sympathize with the mindset that losing is a reason to stop playing instead of a reason to try harder.

Advice please!

I'm going to answer this as a serious question, and not treat it as a masturbatory exercise in need of derision.

First, you should have enough of a social interaction with your opponents to know whether this is an issue or not. If you don't have a problem getting games, what's the issue?

That said, if your opponents are complaining or you're having difficulty getting games...

How about helping your opponents get better?

Or traveling to play new opponents and in bigger events?

Or deliberately using weaker lists, so you can still play your best but give your opponent a better shot?

Never, ever, ever throw a game. You can play in a non-competitive environment, giving your opponent advice and telling him what you're planning as you do it, but even then you should never make a move that you actually know is not a good option, just to increase your chance of losing. If you can easily beat everyone you play against, you just need to seek new opponents. I know that's easier said than done, but you certainly shouldn't make yourself worse at playing so others can look good by comparison.

/popcorn

Dashofpepper wrote:Advice welcome from the 40k community.

My wife has been harping on me the last few weeks, repeatedly with the mantra "No one likes to lose all the time." IE, she thinks I win too much, and that if no one ever beats me, no one will want to play with me anymore. Personally, I relish the thought of losing; it would mean learning of a hole in my tactics, or a new situation to contemplate.

If she's right, my choices are either a.) To stop entering tournaments so that someone else can win, or b.) Intentionally throw games...(periodically) to give people morale boosters.


I think she's f****ing nuts. On the flip side, she generally has good advice so I want other opinions. I wouldn't like losing people to play against, but I find it hard to sympathize with the mindset that losing is a reason to stop playing instead of a reason to try harder.

Advice please!

Ok my advice should be taken with extreme caution. That out of the way I say to hell with that. Winning is not the only thing it is everything. I am piecing together an Ork army based off everything you have posted Dash. The only thing different I am going to do is add a wierdboy or some other random model that is effected by a dice roll for friendly games. Orks are crazy like that. For tournaments thats winner takes all nothing friendly about it. I would rather be the guy people forfiet to than the guy who loses on purpose.

I had this problem with my gaming group too. I had to bring my AoBR Orks from a purely painting project to a full army. It was an indirect attempt to throw games and boost their morale. Was it worth it? Hell yes. You see, I am not very good with my Orks. With my Chaos Marines, I would shut down my opponents' feints and ploys; my opponents didn't get to stretch their legs tactically. They got to beat on my boyz a bit, and it let them build confidence with their armies. It also taught me a new dimension of play, and while I'm still not great with my Orks it did encourage me to paint them faster.

The morale of the story is that maybe you should give them a chance to grow. One can't learn from a defeat they don't understand. You may even learn something new in the bargain.

Intentionally making bad battlefield decisions like charging CC troops with your heavy weapons squads is a terrible idea. I might make an exception when it comes to deployment, though; there is a fair amount of silliness in deployment rules which can sometimes have entire armies not showing up until the third turn of the game, which is logically ridiculous but tactically sound given (artificial) game length constraints. To tone that down, you could just put everything on the table at first.

Intentionally bringing a weaker list is reasonable, especially if other people are working with a weaker codex (LR spam is irritating to everybody, but to 'Nids and daemons, it's just a giant middle finger). If you mention to people that you like your old list and would be happy to play it in general, but for now you want to try out this new list or tactic even if it probably doesn't work as well... then they'll be able to ask for your harder one if they want, and you'll get the satisfaction of knowing you're beating people by playing intelligently with an arm tied behind your back.

LOL, my advice is stop playing in your small pond. Go out and play with the rest. No point winning against the noobs all the time

Prove it to us in the Ard Boyz. Well, you had food poisioning and bad opponent this year (that was what YOU CLAIMED), try again next year.

Mannahnin wrote:I'm going to answer this as a serious question, and not treat it as a masturbatory exercise in need of derision.

First, you should have enough of a social interaction with your opponents to know whether this is an issue or not. If you don't have a problem getting games, what's the issue?

That said, if your opponents are complaining or you're having difficulty getting games...

How about helping your opponents get better?

Or traveling to play new opponents and in bigger events?

Or deliberately using weaker lists, so you can still play your best but give your opponent a better shot?

Absolutely agree, if this is an issue for you, try weaker lists.
If its just irritation from your wife, talk to your hobby mates and see what they say. most will tell you if they like playing against your lists or not, and by extention you.

No one in the area has said anything to met yet; there's been some forum discussion elsewhere about me to the tune of "given his background, I kind of expect him to win," although one of the guys around here noted that if he doesn't win a 40k tournament soon, he's going to take a hiatus from 40k because he doesn't like paying out for events and never winning.

Big fish, little pond syndrome; won't deny it; I have sat down with a couple of the folks around here to try tweaking their army lists and tactics, but I'm pretty new to the area I'm in, and to be honest, I'm paranoid about alienating my gaming group (which I really, really like). In terms of most things I honestly don't give a rats' tail what people think, but I find myself second-guessing myself because I don't want to alienate the gamers here.


*EDIT* And I play Tau and Orks, not LR spam. >< And this is *not* a masturbatory thread; I'm being serious - I've made some nice friends and don't want to lose them....but have trouble wrapping my head around the idea of throwing a game.

I think the "weaker" list idea has merit. I think I need to consider bringing the gretchin out of hiding.

Weaker lists is definitely the way to go. Stretch your creative muscles and make some heavily themes but tactically pointless armies - they'll still be a lot of fun to play, since it'll be such an original list, and you can still 'play hard' and don't have to throw the game.

Plus, lots of fun to model, convert and paint.

Orks - Grot-only Army, Stompy Waler-only Army, Sneaky BloodAxe Army, Flying Army with only Deffkoptas and Stormboyz.

Tau - Kroot Carnivore List, Gue'vesa Human Auxillaries (no Battlesuits)

Or

Destroyed SM Chapter - All Scouts
Thousand Sons Cult Army
Ecclesiarchy (WH but no Sisters)

etc etc

Start a new army! Leave your comfort zone and play something new that you will learn as you go. (and paint as you go)

Kinda what ArbitorIan sayeth.. take something "sub par" and see what happens.

No one wins a 100% of their games and if you say you do your a liar. I know many great tourny players and they loose every once and awile (no one is perfect). just like you claim to win 3000 to 4000$ over the last year. even if you won 20 rtts(and thats one every two weeks) you could only possably win 2000$ for best overall. I have also seen threads where people you have played say they are glad not to have to play you again and elude to you being known as a TFG around your area. most new ork players say of course he wins but with no proof, just a lot of self hype. Make it to the Vegas GT and prove it (unless you get ill in the first round again).
hopfully I will see you there and we will get a game in and see who is right.

Definately leave the pond and find some sharks to swim with and you will gain a new perspective.

unless you get ill in the first round again

Silly, immature comments like this, dont belong in any thread.

Obvious Troll is Obvious.

Now feth off

But seriously, just look through the army list forum and your see that Dash literaly wrote the book on running Ork Mech.

You're having trouble losing, and you're playing Tau? Jeez. I don't know what else I can say right there.

You could try playing Necrons

I've never exactly had this same problem, but I have had to tone it down a little for when I'm teaching new players how to play. Let these games be opportunities for you to spend points on crap you'd never in the right mind buy. Example: Ethereals and Piranhas for Tau, Posessed Marines and Spawn for Chaos. You should still have enough of your "regular" army to play with, along with some liability unit that you'd never normally try out.

I'm just saying put up or shut up. when he wins a big tourny then that would validate his book, until then this is a big hoby with lots of different view points. If I lived on the other coast I would drive to a RTT in Dashes area and I think it would be a great challange (just not an instant win for him). Two differnt Mech Ork lists would be an interesting battle IMO.

Lord-Loss wrote:

unless you get ill in the first round again

Silly, immature comments like this, dont belong in any thread.

Obvious Troll is Obvious.

Now feth off

But seriously, just look through the army list forum and your see that Dash literaly wrote the book on running Ork Mech.

You honestly haven't added anything to this discussion.

Anyway, I agree with the weaker army list idea. My personal pick for a weaker list is an Eldar Pathfinder list with Vypers. To make this look especially cool, you can paint them all arctic camoflauge.

Also, If you have the time and the drve, you could set up a weekly or monthly tactics workshop (an hour each session, focus on a different aspect of a different army each time) to help other gamers in your community. Who knows, someone might put it all together and surpass you in skill, giving you a new challenge.

Just my $.02

How about letting our opponent picking your list?

Should be fun

I wouldn't say use a WEAKER list, but a different kind of list. Try using stuff you wouldn't normally use and see how they work.

Throwing a game shouldn't even be an option. Your opponent doesn't learn anything and actually makes them weaker. They don't learn anything.

Using stuff you normally wouldn't use would help your game out cause you get to test out new tactics. I tried using sniper drone teams a while ago cause I never use them. I used them and a whole bunch of kroot (another thing I hardly ever use). At the end of that game I was pretty much wiped out, but at least I got to test them out. And no, I wasn't trying to throw that game. I was actually trying to win and losing baaaadly.

You learn and your opponent learns. Throwing games is a bad idea in my book.

Well obviously it sounds like your are incredibly skilled at playing and you have an almost flawless play style. I wanted to comment, and i have no advice for you. How about using more experimental play styles. I know you have around 8000 points of Tau. You could field more experimental versions or start a new force that you don't collect. I don't know what other forces you collect.

Cease

I was sick and tired of winning all the time too. Then I started playing people who were old enough to drive.

just kidding!!! I joke!!

Enter ard boyz and you will get your loss pretty quickly.

Out of curiousity, what is your "pond", ie where are you located?

Thanks folks; some good ideas in here. I'm going to assemble a couple of..."unique" army lists to play with.

My "pond" right now consists of North Carolina, and most everything in it; it was previously north Florida. I did enter 'Ard Boyz. I played in two preliminary rounds and took first at both. At semi-finals, the guys who got 1st place was my 3rd round opponent in one of preliminary rounds; I massacred him. The guy who got second place was my second round opponent and I got a major victory against him. I left 'Ard Boyz semi-finals during the first round, on turn2, before any casualties happened. My opponent and I were greviously arguing about the game and the rules, and when he started moving his models around on the table during my turn because "If I was going to cheat, he was too" the game got pointless, I packed up and told him if he wanted it that badly, he was welcome to it. The game hadn't properly kicked off yet (except for me getting ready to Waaaugh! and charge, and his farseer jetbike council failing their fortune roll and reroll). Combined with being sick, wasn't worth the effort.

I regret having left; I won't get a chance to test my mettle again like that for another year, and 'Ard Boyz 2008 is when I started 40k.

As for the bigger pond...I'm working on it. I'm *really* trying to find out about bigger events, and find something close enough that I can drive to it and play; but that's not the point here; in those tournaments, I *will* bring a monkey-stomping army. For folks around here, I'd like not to have people not want to play against me.

And for once, I'm not going to take the bait and respond to the troll.

And I played in another tournament today; mechanized Orks prevail again.

Didn't read all the semi-legit, sometimes-spew above, but:

As a new player, I fought my second battle today with someone who has a VERY experienced army and REALLY knows his stuff. I lost, horribly (AGAIN), but he made sure to take time explaining what he was doing, and constantly prompted me to try remembering rules. Even though my Marines got their power-armored asses HANDED TO THEM by a mob of Dark Eldar Wytches, I got some good experience and learned quite a bit.

If you're playing against very new players, sometimes explaining a strategy or a rule can help your opponent understand more about the game. Winning is awesome, but if you always wipe the floor with everyone by Turn 3, it can start to get old.

If you're playing against semi-experienced players, maybe it's time to start a different army or try a different strategy for your current army. My local group occasionally borrows armies for a single battle, which has proven hilarious when both sides did this and knew very little about what they were playing. The commentary was to say the least hilarious.

Those examples are if you're talking casual, fun play. If you're talking about tournament play, it gets a little muddier. If you're only playing local tournaments, maybe sit out a tournament or two. Don't actually throw a game. Maybe try one of those new armies/strategies. If you're going to more regional and higher tournaments, that might be the time to whip out the army you know like the back of your hand and can play while passed out drunk.

Begin snark: Or maybe such a well-reasoned reply doesn't really belong in this thread considering the previous replies, in which case pick from these:

a) You're a jerk, let the noobs win.
b) Stop QQing and mow them down.

End snark.

As far as tourny play goes, I say dont change, keep handing people their asses on a platter with a smile. You join a tournament to win thats the way of it.
NOW playing outside of a tournament in friendly games and such, you need to throw the ideology out the window. Because in friendly games your not so much there to WIN EVERYTHING RAWR FCKING RAWR! but to enjoy the game with friends in a friendly setting. So for that Id say DO NOT use your tournament army unless you either A. are asked to or B. Feel the need to completely pop someones bubble. So outside of tournaments, play lists that are completely different then your hulk smash list. Dont think math hammer logically, "well this has X amount chance to do this, crap. Take units for fun, take them for a fluff aspect. Yes those dont always work out well, but itll be a different experience and make the game fun.
If you cant bring yourself to do that, and need to always bring the baddest list ever devised, then you are being a total jerk. And people dont like jerks

From what I have heard you really hate to lose so I find it hard to believe you would actually relish the opportunity to lose. Of course maybe I am just a jaded sceptic.

G

Grimgob wrote:No one wins a 100% of their games and if you say you do your a liar.

Rollocks, it all depends where you are playing. I was in Cornwall until five years ago, with a great gaming group (mostly RPG fans tbh) but a couple played Warhammer/40K with me. Inside that group of four players I didn't lose in nearly seven years, and we played less and less because of it. Mainly because although they liked a bit of wargamming they didn't get into the armies as much as I did, and where happy to admit they wheren't the most tactically minded.

In the end I was playing wierd lists to give them more of a chance, so although I was winning the games they where much closer.

Moved up to Suffolk, and although I now only have two oppoenents, one is about my skill level and we trade wins nearly every other battle, its almost 50-50 in his favour at the moment, and I'm enjoying my games much more because of it.

Going to my first Tournie in Jan and I am seriously expecting to get hammered in every round, just because I have no idea how good I actually am, my new mate up here challenges me much more than my previous gaming group, but we may still be pants until we check out the tournie scene.

But aye, back to the point, I don't doubt folks when they say they are undefeated, however I would ask them to examine the 'pond' they play in before making broad statements on how awesome they are.