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I have just been reading the new Tyranid codex and I am very disappointed with the Carnifex there are hardly any upgrades for him anymore anyone else had a chance to flick thourgh?
what are your thoughts?

Yeah exept for the warrior troop choices and the brrodlord being an upgrade I think the new codex isnt that great.

The Carnifex lost the options you wouldn't take anyway. It got skimmed down to just specializing, and got stronger for it. Initiative 4, re-roll all to hit Carnifexs are a lot scarier than anything you could build for 170 points in the old codex.

Darkhound is right, all those options that no one ever took have been taken out and it is now the heavy specialized hitter it should be. I don't see this as a down side, but as a plus, allowing you to make your Carnifex focus on its goal, also, its the only Str 9 MC in the whole army you can take. (Besides Old One Eye, who is also a Carnifex, so it's the same point.) It's still useful, just not as spammable as before.

I knew this was going to happen. Not that I have any inside information, I don't, but just reading what happened to DA, BA, Eldar, Choas and SM codex. They all got streamlined. I believe samething happened to IG and SW as well.

So it's no surprise that it has happened. If I am not mistaken though we have lots more customability than the other codicies have though. So you can say Tyrainds are the most custom army to play with. I could be wrong though.

another thing is most upgrades do completely different things like the adrenal glands just give the model some special rules and the it really

Really? We needed a second thread about how people don't like that the Carnifex isn't greatly under costed anymore? Twin Scytals, Bio Plasma, Adrenals, and a Spore Pod, and he'll wreck face.

+1 to what Aduro said.

I still find it amazing that a Carnifex is WS3... why is he equal to a Guardsman in WS? Why not WS4? What part of the game breaks if Mr. Fex is WS4?

H.B.M.C. wrote:I still find it amazing that a Carnifex is WS3... why is he equal to a Guardsman in WS? Why not WS4? What part of the game breaks if Mr. Fex is WS4?

The Spess Mehreen players. ( which counts for too much! )

I don't picture a Fex as a skillful elite fighter, just a really strong one who thrashes and smashes about.

There is something i have been thinking about for the longest time regarding giant creatures.

For each sweep their giant weapon / scyths do , its not rare that it hits multiple target per sweep /attack.

Dealing with low number of opponent yes it makes sense since the 1 or 2 individuals can dodge around , but i think when MC is facing number of 5+ they should have the wounds they caused multiply.

Aduro wrote:I don't picture a Fex as a skillful elite fighter, just a really strong one who thrashes and smashes about.

You're right. They're not Elite HTH fighters, which is why they're not WS5 like the Elite HTH fighters in the game (Librarians, Chaplains, Exarchs, etc.) or WS6 the really Elite HTH fighters in the game (Marine Captains, 'Chaos' Lords, etc.). Additionally Weapon Skill is an abstraction of both how skilled you are in combat, and how difficult to hit you are. I'd say a Carnifex thrashing about would make it very difficult to get a handle on (like trying to fight a swinging truck-sized circular saw that wants to kill you). They, along with Defilers, should be WS4. It makes no sense otherwise.

WS 3 for Carnifexes seems logical to me. They are animalistic monsters that are not really much better than any ordinary trained fighter. Further, they are huge and fairly slow, which makes them vulnerable to close-range shots. Nothing would break if Carnifexes were WS 4, but it would contribute to "stat inflation."

Fetterkey wrote:WS 3 for Carnifexes seems logical to me. They are animalistic monsters that are not really much better than any ordinary trained fighter. Further, they are huge and fairly slow, which makes them vulnerable to close-range shots. Nothing would break if Carnifexes were WS 4, but it would contribute to "stat inflation."

I think elephants for example would do a good job harming an experienced human fighter

despite them been animaliztic and slow.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Aduro wrote:I don't picture a Fex as a skillful elite fighter, just a really strong one who thrashes and smashes about.

You're right. They're not Elite HTH fighters, which is why they're not WS5 like the Elite HTH fighters in the game (Librarians, Chaplains, Exarchs, etc.) or WS6 the really Elite HTH fighters in the game (Marine Captains, 'Chaos' Lords, etc.). Additionally Weapon Skill is an abstraction of both how skilled you are in combat, and how difficult to hit you are. I'd say a Carnifex thrashing about would make it very difficult to get a handle on (like trying to fight a swinging truck-sized circular saw that wants to kill you). They, along with Defilers, should be WS4. It makes no sense otherwise.

Can I just say HBMC, that's the greatest description I've ever seen?

Hehehe. Fighting a truck-sized circular saw.

DarkHound wrote:The Carnifex lost the options you wouldn't take anyway. It got skimmed down to just specializing, and got stronger for it. Initiative 4, re-roll all to hit Carnifexs are a lot scarier than anything you could build for 170 points in the old codex.

Fexor wrote:Darkhound is right, all those options that no one ever took have been taken out and it is now the heavy specialized hitter it should be. I don't see this as a down side, but as a plus, allowing you to make your Carnifex focus on its goal, also, its the only Str 9 MC in the whole army you can take. (Besides Old One Eye, who is also a Carnifex, so it's the same point.) It's still useful, just not as spammable as before.

Looks like GW/Jervis speak is working!

This is along the lines of what we heard when the last Chaos Marine Codex came out.

It was nice to have options... And do more rather than less...

LunaHound wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:I still find it amazing that a Carnifex is WS3... why is he equal to a Guardsman in WS? Why not WS4? What part of the game breaks if Mr. Fex is WS4?

The Spess Mehreen players. ( which counts for too much! )

Grrrr....

The Chaos Marines codex is bad not just because it lacks options for the units. It lacks options as an entire codex. It has one way to play it (Mech), and it will always consist of a core of Troops and Heavy Support. The Elites and Fast Attack in general don't have anything the army needs, so you shouldn't take them. On top of this, the individual units lack options.

The Tyranid codex differs in that it has vastly variable deployment types and nearly all of its units add something unique and coherent to the army. The individual units lack options to force them to be specialized and unique, reinforcing that you need to vary your army. It makes playing against Tyranids a new challenge from player to player. This is good codex design, plain and simple.

DarkHound wrote:The Chaos Marines codex is bad not just because it lacks options for the units. It lacks options as an entire codex. It has one way to play it (Mech), and it will always consist of a core of Troops and Heavy Support. The Elites and Fast Attack in general don't have anything the army needs, so you shouldn't take them. On top of this, the individual units lack options.

The Tyranid codex differs in that it has vastly variable deployment types and nearly all of its units add something unique and coherent to the army. The individual units lack options to force them to be specialized and unique, reinforcing that you need to vary your army. It makes playing against Tyranids a new challenge from player to player. This is good codex design, plain and simple.

I'll buy the codex next week.
It appears that the designers did a better job than with the CSM codex.
That's great for the Nids players, while the CSM players can hope for a better codex next time.

How can one be disappointed with a fex? Cause you can give him a pod? Cause he can be in groups of 3? Cause he can have str9/10 ap 4/2 shooting attacks? Cause the army can possibly have 9? He still the ability to get regen, crushing claws, etc Truly I don't see how people can whine about the new dex. There are some fantastic combos and powers etc in this book.

wuestenfux wrote:I'll buy the codex next week.
It appears that the designers did a better job than with the CSM codex.
That's great for the Nids players, while the CSM players can hope for a better codex next time.

When you do, look at the Warrior Alpha (or Tyranid Prime, whatever) and compare him to the Chaos Lord. Just one more nail in that poor bastard's coffin.

Alpharius wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:I still find it amazing that a Carnifex is WS3... why is he equal to a Guardsman in WS? Why not WS4? What part of the game breaks if Mr. Fex is WS4?

The Spess Mehreen players. ( which counts for too much! )

Hurrrr!

Fixed


I just think they need to break up the SM codex releases though by having larger gaps between them.

Anyway, getting back on topic, the new fex seems alright, they're way faster than the old ones so they're have an even better chance against the stuff that used to kill them. Doesn't really help against the Power Fists or Power Klaws. But, they now hit at the same time as the Nobz with Big Choppas will. The design of the codex might also change up the meta game a bit and hopefully drag it back from the apparent full mech environment to one more diverse and not "as many metal boxes as I can fit into the point limitations". But, that will have to wait for a fair bit, I'll most likely still not care about the meta game as well as it never actually seems to reflect the actual games I see or read about.

how can i put this the new carnifex can take A DAMN PLASMA CANNON WHICH DOES NOT OVER HEAT!!

stop complaining sheesh

and regarding ws being able to reroll all failed to hit rolls makes up for that still has a decent amount a of attacks strikes before power fist/klaws the bane of the 4th ed nids on the charge

and you can wac them in a squad of three so whats not to like ???

sure it competes with tervigon in the hs slot but you stick him in a pod bam right where you want him

have swarmlord nearby and give the squad of fexes furious charge? i can see that being under powered too

your right carnies are weak and fall to guardsmen like flies

unless you open your minds to the possibilitys....

DarkHound wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:I'll buy the codex next week.
It appears that the designers did a better job than with the CSM codex.
That's great for the Nids players, while the CSM players can hope for a better codex next time.

When you do, look at the Warrior Alpha (or Tyranid Prime, whatever) and compare him to the Chaos Lord. Just one more nail in that poor bastard's coffin.

What's wrong with those Alpha Warriors and Tyranid Primes?

Yea, I'm pretty miffed about the Carnifex too, no more head options. I liked 'acid maw' and 'tusked', but they are no more.

wuestenfux wrote:What's wrong with those Alpha Warriors and Tyranid Primes?

Oh nothing. They're perfect. I was talking about the Chaos Lord.

DarkHound wrote:The Carnifex lost the options you wouldn't take anyway. It got skimmed down to just specializing, and got stronger for it. Initiative 4, re-roll all to hit Carnifexs are a lot scarier than anything you could build for 170 points in the old codex.

It lost one of the most common configurations that was used (Sniperfex)...And It does not have Initiative 4...

skyth wrote:It lost one of the most common configurations that was used (Sniperfex)...And It does not have Initiative 4...

Base 1, +1 from Furious Charge, +2 from Living Battering Ram. You need to fear this monster.

You may have lost the Sniperfex, but what is it compared to the Tyrranofex? Any options you've lost have been put into a more specialized package elsewhere. Shock-trooper? Mawloc. Godfex? Swarmlord, or even the Trygon Alpha. Not only is this smart, is if fluffy. The Tyranids figured out what builds work, and distilled them into a more perfect form.

That is not Initative 4...It's Initiative 4 on the charge only. Big difference.

So no one would object to using a sniperfex as a Tyrranofex?

skyth wrote:That is not Initative 4...It's Initiative 4 on the charge only. Big difference.

So no one would object to using a sniperfex as a Tyrranofex?

No it isn't. Anything that is getting the charge on the Carnifex is designed for killing them, and it won't have mattered (Assault Terminators out of a Landraider). If you are letting them get charged, it is either a calculated loss or you are on your backfoot anyway. In the new Codex, you are going to have a swarm of Gaunts surrounding your MCs like the Tyranids are supposed to have. You use that screen of units to protect them from an Assault, using the Carnifex for a counter-charge. The Carnifexi are not shock troopers, they don't go it alone; they add meat to your line and punish dedicated assault units that aren't equiped to kill them (Khorne Berserkers, Nobs, Grey Hunters, Dreadnoughts, Striking Scorpions, Wyches, etc.).

As for the second part, I wouldn't know. It will vary from person to person though.