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DarkHound wrote:
As for the second part, I wouldn't know. It will vary from person to person though.

That's the point...You use the option because you have the model. Them getting rid of one of the most common (If not THE most common) configuration of the Carnifex is a serious issue. It would be like taking away the ability of Dev squads to take Missile Launchers. It doesn't matter that another MC (That, oh by the way, has a new model) fills a similar role.

The Carnifex is only I4 under very specific, contrived, circumstances. Same as if you had said (Last edition) that Dark Angels Tactical Marines are I:10 (And neglect to mention that it's only when they were assulting into cover because they came standard with frags). Your initial post made it seem like 'fexes are I4 all the time.

I quit playing 40k awhile ago. Most new codex releases, I think to myself...'It might be cool to try this...' and have some small inkling of playing again. The new Tyranid codex didn't do that.

It seems like they'd work well as a hybrid unit (if you don't pod it).

Toss a gun on it, walk it forward absorbing firepower and then smash something up close.

skyth wrote:It doesn't matter that another MC (That, oh by the way, DOESN'T HAVE a new model) fills the same role better.

The Carnifex is only I4 under very specific, contrived, circumstances. Same as if you had said (Last edition) that Dark Angels Tactical Marines are I:10 (And neglect to mention that it's only when they were assulting into cover because they came standard with frags). Your initial post made it seem like 'fexes are I4 all the time.

Fixed your post.

The situations, while they may be contrived, are not very specific. I'm sorry if my initial post was misleading, but my point still stands. You aren't going to get the charge on a Carnifex until you purchase a significant advantage else where. Any opponent worth his salt won't let you get past those Gaunts without a fight (that you'll lose since they Counter Attack into Furious Charge, thank you Tervigon). The only way I can think of getting to the Carnifex with anything meaningful is to Tank Shock a Landraider through the Gaunts and somehow clear enough space to deploy the Terminators.

DarkHound wrote:

skyth wrote:That is not Initative 4...It's Initiative 4 on the charge only. Big difference.

No it isn't. Anything that is getting the charge on the Carnifex is designed for killing them, and it won't have mattered .

This argument works both ways...The I4 doesn't matter because anything the Carnifex charges won't beat it either way.

Oh, and the very fact that a new unit is out that will require a new model (Regardless of whether there is actually one out now) negates the whole premise that having Carnifexes with now illegal weapon configs are options that 'wouldn't be used'.

WS3 isn't that good, but he does get to re-roll all his misses. I'll take re-rolls over better WS any day.

A question. For people who don't like the Carni's in 5th edtion codex.

Can you please put what you have for 4th edtion and piont cost and what it's equivilent and point cost in 5th edtion. I just don't get why people are upset.

im gonna have to create a why I like the new Carnifex's thread to combat the negativity theyre getting

I gotta say I'm very satisfied with the accuracy of my prediction concerning broods of Carnifices in the new Codex. Very glad I modeled them all identically with basic equipment (Scything Talons, Barbed Strangler, Adrenal Gland). One brood of Carnifices ready to storm up the middle of the board!

The Carnifex lost the options you wouldn't take anyway.

I know I never gave it 2+ armour...really guys you got to believe me...honest

Can you please put what you have for 4th edtion and piont cost and what it's equivilent and point cost in 5th edtion. I just don't get why people are upset.

2 had 2 sets of scything talons, 2+ save and 5 wounds higher weapons skill and initiative, the third swtiched out the talons for a venom cannon and higher ballistic skill. I don't recall the exact price but I am pretty sure it was around 160 which is this one's base price and the venom cannon being close to 200

It's not that I don't like the 5th ed carnifex, its that the trygon is so much better for 40 points more

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Aduro wrote:I don't picture a Fex as a skillful elite fighter, just a really strong one who thrashes and smashes about.

You're right. They're not Elite HTH fighters, which is why they're not WS5 like the Elite HTH fighters in the game (Librarians, Chaplains, Exarchs, etc.) or WS6 the really Elite HTH fighters in the game (Marine Captains, 'Chaos' Lords, etc.). Additionally Weapon Skill is an abstraction of both how skilled you are in combat, and how difficult to hit you are. I'd say a Carnifex thrashing about would make it very difficult to get a handle on (like trying to fight a swinging truck-sized circular saw that wants to kill you). They, along with Defilers, should be WS4. It makes no sense otherwise.

Further to this argument, Orks are WS4 based on the fact they use size and brute strength rather than actual skill to overcome their opponent(s). If a Fex isn't about size and brute strength, I don't know what is

Why is anyone suprised at this? Gw makes money on people buying the kits. Therefore new codex = new kits = new kits are best buy in the codex.

IE, Trygons. They need people to buy these to make back their investment in its development. Thus, the best HS selection are Trygons. Why would you take anything else? GW wants people to buy as many trygons as possible.

They've probably already made their investment money back in the carnifex molds, too. They aren't too worried about people buying them. Thus, they have a reduction in usefulness in the new codex.

LoLcAtMaN wrote: Carnifex I am disappoint

Should be

Carnifex, I am disappointed.

Flashman wrote:Further to this argument, Orks are WS4 based on the fact they use size and brute strength rather than actual skill to overcome their opponent(s). If a Fex isn't about size and brute strength, I don't know what is

Orks should be WS3, though. That would break the army as it currently stands, so they're WS4 for balance reasons.

Alpharius wrote:

DarkHound wrote:The Carnifex lost the options you wouldn't take anyway. It got skimmed down to just specializing, and got stronger for it. Initiative 4, re-roll all to hit Carnifexs are a lot scarier than anything you could build for 170 points in the old codex.

Fexor wrote:Darkhound is right, all those options that no one ever took have been taken out and it is now the heavy specialized hitter it should be. I don't see this as a down side, but as a plus, allowing you to make your Carnifex focus on its goal, also, its the only Str 9 MC in the whole army you can take. (Besides Old One Eye, who is also a Carnifex, so it's the same point.) It's still useful, just not as spammable as before.

Looks like GW/Jervis speak is working!

This is along the lines of what we heard when the last Chaos Marine Codex came out.

It was nice to have options... And do more rather than less...

LunaHound wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:I still find it amazing that a Carnifex is WS3... why is he equal to a Guardsman in WS? Why not WS4? What part of the game breaks if Mr. Fex is WS4?

The Spess Mehreen players. ( which counts for too much! )

Grrrr....

Well to be honest, if you rely on one thing to do everything it's boring and repatitive. If you can't actually look at the codex as a return to what Nid's were supposed to be like then I can't help that. If you felt that the Carnifex was the end all be all, then read the fluff again and you'll realize its not. It's the heavy hitter compliment to the swarm, and its been like that since I've started playing, the Carnifex was always fluffed up to be the heavy swinger for the Nid's not it's main battle-everything. Yes with the Elite choice in the 4th edition codex's it was shown to be a bit more used then just a heavy hitter but once again, read the fluff that went with that entry. It was a "spear head" not the Spear itself. In essence it was meant to bash through the enemy lines and allow the smaller Nid's the ability to chew up the remaining enemys that were left behind after the initial Carnifex push.

What this codex represents is the ability to actually think about your list make up and not just a 1 - 2 instant win button. Now making your selection and choices actually matter, as well, every option is actually viable, not a bunch of garbage you're never going to use. I'll take this codex over the previous any day, because now I have REAL options, in selection AND armorment. Does that mean I lose some individuality in customization yeah it does, but being able to take what I want and know it's not going to be a waste of time playing/painting and not a waste of money buying is a huge upgrade in my book.

I feel most of the complaints are from those that just don't want to or can't adapt to change, which I mean is the whole basis behind the Tyranids strategy isn't it? Adapt and overcome to consume the universe, until there is no living life form left that isn't Tyranid. Take a lesson from the Army you play and adapt, look at the codex and the army on a grander scale and not just the one's and two's that have changed for balance reasons.

*steps down*

Peace~

ps. First rule of war gaming, have fun, no ones forcing you to play Tyranids, or any army for that matter.

I'm just pretty psyched that my pair of old screamer-killers are points effective again.
(and hit at I4, which they never did before)

~ B ~

I'm totally with you up until your PS. I definitely have some sympathy for those whose flashy, converted 'fexes are now useless. You can't tell them to like-it-or-leave when they've already constructed a huge army in 4th.