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I was listening to a podcast this morning and they played a message from a listener describing a sort of shift in the makeup of GW stores' employees: GW is moving more towards hiring based on sales ability rather than hobby knowledge. Good sales people that are green to the hobby are being hired and only educated in the hobby enough to sell it. Rather than having staff available that can support the hobby in the long run they are looking for means to better gather up new customers. Existing customers are so 'addicted' to the hobby that there is no need to support them... they'll flock to the goods like crackheads.

Is this something going on with your GW store or a GW store near you? What do you think?

I have barely been in GW stores lately (or at all) but, it sounds to me like something that is done with interests/products in general... you get to a point to where you have a product that is going to be financially supported by the masses and so you shift from supporting the quality of product to supporting your growth those that will buy it... and instead of generalising the product to make it more appealing to other masses (some they would argue they have anyway), you can opt to use sales savvy to push the existing product.

I live in Sacramento, CA and I think there's a GW store in San Fransisco but I've never been able to find it when I go there

I'm in Emeryville, CA... I used to be in Vallejo, CA... the GWs I've been to are the one in Alamo, CA and in Concord, CA at the Sunvalley mall when they had a GW store.

In the Alamo store I experienced some employees who seemed very much into the hobby with a hint of sales-iness to them. I don't remember my experience with the Concord, CA store.

How are they in Sac?

Good at sales or good at GW's silly pushy 80s version of sales? If it's the former then it could actually be a good thing.

George Spiggott wrote:Good at sales or good at GW's slowed pushy 80s version of sales? If it's the former then it could actually be a good thing.

Either way I'm kind of wondering what would happen to the hobby. Will we see a degradation with growing over population but lack of support for existing clientele?

George Spiggott wrote:Good at sales or good at GW's silly pushy 80s version of sales? If it's the former then it could actually be a good thing.

Truth.

If this is the way forwards I can imagine store manager turn over will be quite high and in turn store managers will be more ruthless.

Why talk to the gamers when you can seal the deal by talking directly to the wallets and the parents that are attached.

Isn't there a trend towards lack of support from GW as evidenced by their pulling out of tournaments (i.e. Gamesdays)?

I visit the GW here occasionally and aside from the manager and a few employees I see regularly, they've seemed to keep attrition to a minimum along with not being pushy. Now it's been since December the last time I went. Who knows what its like now after all the big holidays have passed.

If I don't encounter pushy sales staff and I already know everything I need to know about 'the hobby' I really don't see the problem.

I can't see this being a major issue. most people apply for jobs in a GW store because they are already interested in the hobby, unless GW want to raise there wages for staff members considerably then they wont attract the types of sales people they hope for, as they will be lured by companies who offer large bonus and comission schemes backed up with incentives for hitting and exceeding targets.

Also, to effectively sell a product well you need to have a very good knowledge of it. Nothing would harm GW sales more than an employee who was unable to explain a game or answer a customers questions, especialy when it is a premium product and often bought as a gift for others by people who arent all that knowledgable themselves.

Whilst I find the current way that some staff try to talk you into buying stuff you don't need annoying, I accept that GW are a business and are just trying to maximise there sales. I just wish that when you make it clear that you don't need help or that you know what you want to buy, you would be left alone. I hate to be treated like an idiot.

It's the pushiness that sets me off. GW Hobby Centers market themselves currently as a place to not only buy your models but to play with them too (at least that appears so when they have some table space with terrain you can use and posted Beginners and Veteran's times to use them). Moving more towards sales, which I completely understand is necessary for business, is fine as long as it doesn't also mean less time for gamer rapport, gaming, painting, etc.,.... everything that makes the hobby fun.

It's like a mental set that many restaurants use, buy our food and get the hell out.

well, GW long time ago became Mcdonalds equivalent of wargaming so no surprise here..

Week or two ago at the San Jose GW went in and asked about terrain. I've usually been impressed with the staff there, who are fairly knowledgeable and will back off the sales approach when I mention I've been playing for 10+ years. This time however there was a new redshirt who had no clue what terrain sets were available (in stock or otherwise) and didn't let up on the sales pitch. I'm not sure if she's new (yes, it was a she) or if it's some new program, or what.

From my own experience of retail, as someone has mentioned, you have to either care/know about the product to make the sales work.

GW stores are only going to attract people who know the product or know the product and have sales experience. It isn't a store just any schmuck off the streets can walk int to and be set loose on the floor to sell things in a few days times.

I am reminded of a story I heard about TSR hiring sales people to sell their stuff at gaming conventions, back in the 80's or 90's, when the sales people had never played the game a day in their life. This failed horribly because the sales people didn't know how to answer questions and so didn't best represent the product they were hired to sell.

The best course of action for GW to take would be to train their managers on how to sell the product with as little hobby talk as possible. Say a lot without saying a lot and let them realize you know what you are talking about. Nothing is a turn off more in sales then when the sales person just doesn't know what they are selling.

As a former member of the GW crew in the East bay, let me say that their is a drastic shift in the attitude of the management, or at least when the old regional was booted out to the east coast, the new manager drastically changed things. I was not a good fit for the region, I found it hard to stay motivated when their was no incentive to sell. As for the shift away form hobbing, Our region no longer provide paint at the painting station, they gave the customers a flimsy excuse, but I know that it was so they could boost their daily sales, and to discourage certain older customers to move on to other stores. Also GW 149 for life, aka stoneridge.

p.s. their is no more GW san. fran. its all in the bay area now. check out union city their is an awesome manger named Greg.

feth you Scott

I have the privilege to remain,
Occius

I've never had products pushed on me, in fact last summer one of my local GW employees gave me a free thing of green stuff so I could try it out!

The staff at GW Oxford Street and GW Bluewater are a mixed bunch. They all clearly know and enjoy the hobby. Some of them are quite pushy at sales, while others are enjoyable to chat with. Some are just nerdy geeks and really to be avoided.

The staff at GW Covent Garden always seem cool to chat to, and not pushy, though I have not been there as often.

I agree the Oxford Street staff are a bit mixed. I am of an age where I could be going in for myself or for a son or cousin, so I suppose if it's a staff member who doesn't know me they might be more forthcoming in their sales technique.

I reckon the strategy is basically right. Vets already have enough knowledge not to have to be sold too in the shop.

If they had a commission schedule when I was a redshirt, I'd still be there. Things got better as a blackshirt, because you made all the redshirts do all the push selling dog and pony show to hit your numbers. Any higher-ups in GW retail say there are no daily numbers is a liar.

It's the wave of things to come. Sell, sell, sell, sell. But hey, it's capitalism at it's finest; just wish GW would figure out a way for both the sales and the hobby to coexist.

djphranq wrote:GW is moving more towards hiring based on sales ability rather than hobby knowledge.

Wow, imagine that: a store focusing on selling product!

I can vouch for this change. I failed my probationary period at my local GW due to my inability to draw in enough customers. *evils* so even though I was a good hobbyist, and didn't mind the daycare nature of GW . . . nope, not selling enough =/

Oshova

The way my cell manager put it, you wanted to have 3 different guys there besides yourself. One guy that was a walking encyclopedia of game knowledge (your part-timer) and two guys that "had no problem getting laid" i.e., salesmen. Since that was over 6 years ago, I'd say it's been like that for a while.

cell manager??? GW is broken up into cells now? Hmm i understand now why they are trying to "infiltrate" new markets

Kirasu wrote:cell manager??? GW is broken up into cells now? Hmm i understand now why they are trying to "infiltrate" new markets

Oh no, what have they done. Before they know it, GW will have splinter cells organizations cropping up and attempting to take down the company from the inside out!

Well, GW retail shops are exactly that, places to buy things. As a retail store, they will be focused on sales. If someone up in corporate decides that laid back gamer type employees are bad, that means their sales probably didn't do that well the last year or so. Probably looking to earn more money by hiring the aggressive type to drive sales (that could me someone dedicated to the hobby, but could also be a sales first type).

Kirasu wrote:cell manager??? GW is broken up into cells now? Hmm i understand now why they are trying to "infiltrate" new markets

This was back pre-2004. A cell manager was simply an "area manager" overseeing 5+ stores and dealing with the independents in the area.

Well, funnily enough I was just rejected from a casual position because i had stacks of sales/marketing experience but hadn't been back in the hobby long enough after hiatus from 2nd edition yrs ago.

But yeah, the guys are a mixed bunch. One is very reserved and quiet, the other is your everyday, friendly salesman with a passion for his hobby, and one literally pays out the kids who don't follow his painting advice (which is a crackup).

The only other store in town is run by a bunch of kids. Literally my first day walking into the city store had me raising eyebrows at the 'manager' screaming 'f&*k you helpdesk!!' from behind the counter because obviously the HD couldn't fix his I.T issue. Pretty pathetic and haven't walked back in since.

I do feel GW only care about themselves even though it is their business (the pricing is ridiculous if store employees automatically get 50% anything there - i've never heard of anywhere else doing that much of a store discount) and makes me wonder how much they mark up their stock and will continue to in the future.

Yeah, and you also get that 50% discount if you have a store with a table in it. So they're kinda giving it away . . . but then not a lot of people have something to compare GW to on a high street, so they can mark up and still get high sales. It's mean, but it works.

Oshova

snowman40k wrote:
I do feel GW only care about themselves even though it is their business (the pricing is ridiculous if store employees automatically get 50% anything there - i've never heard of anywhere else doing that much of a store discount) and makes me wonder how much they mark up their stock and will continue to in the future.

It used to be more.....

Well I did notice they changed their hiring policies when one of the local GWs hired a staff member who was fired from one of the Indies for stealing models then giving them to another employee as a gift and then trying to pin the blame on a third employee.

I didn't say anything because I thought it would be funnier that way.

I'm out in the bay in California, and I've noticed a real shift in my shop's employees. I watched the people who helped me get into the hobby quit, one by one, only to be replaced by... salesmen. At my last outing my buddy was badgered for literally two minutes about buying some plastic glue at the check-out counter, despite his insistence that he has a spare bottle on top of the one he's using, not to mention our bottles just incase.

As an aside, do you know if the only stock the store has is on the shelf? Everything I needed to get seemed to be out. I asked the dude if he could check the back, but he waved it off. 'No, we must just be out.'

DarkHound wrote:
As an aside, do you know if the only stock the store has is on the shelf? Everything I needed to get seemed to be out. I asked the dude if he could check the back, but he waved it off. 'No, we must just be out.'

Every store I've been into in the UK has a stockroom.