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As an Eldar player how would you suggest I kill Mephiston 30 assault marines with Feel No Pain and a Land Raider?

Lance the raider
Lance mephiston
doom, fire prism, banshee, and yriel the marines.
AF

So lance spam is an effective tactic in this case?

in my opinion yes. I would guess you need about 6 lances on the table to be reasonably certain of stopping the land raider in your 1st volley. if mephiston gets out of cover you can lance him if he stays in cover great he'll be sitting the battle out. the main thing with the marines is to cut through their feel no pain. the priest is an independent character so pick him out in close combat. if he's ever away from a squad lance him. Use your mobility to choose when and where you fight. I think eldar are one of the better forces for fighting blood angels really.
AF

Around which points limit do you think this would be easiest?

Nice man...Copy my thread too. Is that really necessary? you know how to do all 3 of those...

(I know these guys in real life, dw guys)

Yeah, but to be fair i really really don't trust my own judgement.

Because your transports are so expensive I would tend to think that higher point limits would favor you. this lets you take advantage of one of the eldar's main assets - their unbelievably good transports.

Thanks for the tips AF. If you have any alternative tips or anyone else has thoughts feel free to let me know.

Well you should TRY and Lance the Raider, but its almost impossible to pack in enough of the overpriced things to actually guarantee a kill (without totally breaking the rest of your army this is). Realistically you would also need some Fire Dragons if you want to be sure if killing it, they won't kill it on the other side of the table and give you some breathing room, but they are the next best thing.

Mephiston shouldn't really be an issue for Eldar, with Runes of Warding (you do have this right, best psychic defense in the game for 15pts?) he will be failing powers and wounding himself with Perils enough to take himself out of the game because he is too slow (at which point I would just Scatter Laser him at range or just dump a squad of Fire Dragons in his face).

Eldar vs Mech Blood Angels is a completely different story to Eldar vs Jump Pack Blood Angels. The first matchup Eldar have no trouble as they are faster and put out similar amounts of firepower (Mech Blood Angels play very similar to Mech Eldar actually, just without skimmers). Against mass Jump Pack BA Eldar will have some major issues however, we basically can't kill enough of them to make a difference due to FNP. Fire Dragons are too expensive to be used as anti infantry (and not that effective either), Banshees are not a competitive choice and neither are Starcannons, Bright Lances won't kill enough, Prisms won't hit enough (focused will kill what it hits but maybe get 1-2 per shot, dispersed hits more but they get FNP even if you combine) and you can't get enough shots from Scatters, Shuriken Cannons, Bladestorm and Flamer Squads to kill the rest.

Eldar start to function as an army above 1750pts, less than that and we are crippled by our expensive transports (and expensive options in general) and weak troops.

sure thing Matt.

You may not kill Meph, but a fortuned seer council could tie him up for a long time with half decent rolling

Seer Council Eh? How large a seer council? One farseer with the full 10 warlock bodyguard and fortune is 325 points. Would it need any more/ less?

Well, you are running 2 units of fire dragons in wave serpents right? If not 3 ...

1 kills meph 1 kills land raider and 1 is there in case one of the other 2 die.

A Foot Council is a sub par unit at the best of time, its an absolutely terrible choice to deal with Mephiston, to start with they are more points (a counter to him should be equal or less not more unless it would walk through him) and they won't be able to kill let alone stall/slow him down. Mephiston can counter Fortune just as easily as Runes of Warding counters his powers, except that Mephiston is still a beast without his powers. He will rip the Farseer apart in the first round of combat (goes first with a high enough strength to ID) at which point he gets his powers again and you lose Fortune and he is free to deal with the unit as he feels like it (not enough attacks when not charging to worry him + he goes first and kills a couple before they attack anyway). A Council falls over completely when it loses Fortune, Mephiston at least can still beat things to death (he just won't do it as quickly).

Seriously all you need is Runes of Warding and he becomes very easy to manage, just take a normal army, don't give him any easy targets and you should be fine. If he becomes a problem dump a Fire Dragon unit into him at point blank range and kill him in a single turn.

So just take a farseer with runes of warding as well as everything i'd normally take?

Yeah pretty much, assuming everything you normally take resembles a decent Eldar list that is (which I'm not exactly confident in considering a Farseer with Runes of Warding is just about the first thing I put in every Eldar list). Eldar, being a 4th edition Codex, have far less flexibility than Blood Angels, who are an above average 5th edition Codex (with all the 5th edition Codices being orders of magnitude more flexible than 4th ed ones) which means an Eldar list can't carry any dead weight against the newer codices and expect to win. Essentially I wouldn't expect an untuned Eldar list to do very well at all against any BA list, but untuned BA list could still beat Eldar.

Nothing in the Eldar list will beat Mephiston in a straight up fight so don't try, Runes of Warding means he is moving much more slowly so you have more time to deal with him + hurting himself as a bonus. When he can't kill more than one unit at a time and is moving 6" per turn then he stops being scary. Most of the time I'm going to be shooting down the Blood Angel vehicles and meltagun units before they get close enough to me to do damage, even to the point of ignoring Mephiston completely. As I mentioned if he becomes a threat I can't ignore then he gets a squad of Fire Dragons dropped off next to him and they toast him in a single turn (with a couple of Serpents to help out if needed).

Haywire grenades and I think eldritch storm can affect vehicles regardless of AV. 2 FirePrisms linked shot will help too. Wraithguard maybe?

Its a bit of an odd suggestion but a Night Spinner is quite handy against units with FNP. Its rending therefore 1/6 of the time it ignores armour and FNP, it slows down the target, and the dangerous terain test also ignores FNP if you fail it. I find it works wonders against footslogging nob squads, could possibly help here, I dont know

Your other option would be to play a game that is too few points for him to get all these big units.

Also Feugan may be good against the LR, he can short range melta then assault 2d6 + 5s, all with tank hunters.

Mattieau wrote:As an Eldar player how would you suggest I kill Mephiston 30 assault marines with Feel No Pain and a Land Raider?

That's a pretty decent force, I guess at the 2000 pt level.

Take Fire Dragons to kill a Land Raider.
Assault Marines with FNP is another story. I'd send a Seer Council to tie them up. Banshees eventually work too if the enemy unit is doomed.
You could shut down Mephiston's psychic abilities by runes of warding. At least, it makes it harder for him to cast.

Wraithguard could do the trick, all you need is one 6 to wound to insta kill him.

Mind war mephiston to death! works every time.

Using the arrows in a standard Mechdar quiver (you are playing Mechdar, right? Probably, if you like winning...) means figuring out how to deal with this force using 2x mounted Dragons, 2x Prisms, a few BLs, and one or two good CC units (either Banshees or a Seer Council), plus some Troops units because you had to

First off, prioritize your targets for the Dragons, who are you surest killers. The Raider and Mephiston would be good to start with. Use BLS on either target if they miraculously survive a round of Dragon-shooting. Once those are dealt with, turn the BLs on whatever assault squad you are focussing on.

The Prism cannons will chip away at the Assault Marines. Take single shots at the high power setting, unless he's dumb enough to bunch them up.

Once you've got a nice chunk of 10 or less marines left, or have isolated one of the squads to avoid a countercharge, take them on with Banshees or a Seer Council. I prefer Banshees if I'm playing against Marines. If you're using Banshees, always Doom the marines in priority to any other psychic power usage.

If you go with a Council, you're probably using Fortune... if you spend points on stones, go for Mind War as your second power rather than Doom. Then you can MW against the Priest. That'll up your killing power by 50%. If you live through the combat and Mephiston's still standing, MW him too... but that's unlikely.

Forget shuriken fire. It'll only be good for mopping up single survivors from other hits, and iffy even then. Keep your troops on the verges, either out of range and safe to score later, or contributing shots but avoiding combat as much as possible.

Oh, and if you're using Eldrad as your HQ: if you can save a power use to Mind War with, kill those Sanguinary Priests. Then you can use the bigger combo-shot template from the Prisms to take out half an assault squad every turn.

As for Wraithguard, that's a _terrible_ idea. They're points-inefficient and rarely get to use their snazzy guns before being crumpled by powerfists. I have 20 of them, and have tried to make them work with frequency and eventual great anguish. Even against FNP troops they're iffy, as their slow foot-slogging makes them unlikely to choose their opponents.

Savnock wrote:Oh, and if you're using Eldrad as your HQ: if you can save a power use to Mind War with, kill those Sanguinary Priests. Then you can use the bigger combo-shot template from the Prisms to take out half an assault squad every turn.

All excellent advice, but just one clarification. If you are linking shots from the Fire Prism and firing dispersed, its S6 AP2 and Twin-Linked, which ignores FNP anyway, so you don't need to have Eldrad do anything, other than maybe "Doom" the unit to make sure.

Lets look at it this way:mephiston 250pt,30 DC 600pt,land raider 250pt.

1100pt of stuff, beat it with 780:3x fire dragon units in wave serpents(10 man)

Watch him getting pissed off by losing his land raider in the first turn and slowly turn his marines into molten body fluid


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lets look at it this way:mephiston 250pt,30 DC 600pt,land raider 250pt.

1100pt of stuff, beat it with 780:3x fire dragon units in wave serpents(10 man)

Watch him getting pissed off by losing his land raider in the first turn and slowly turn his marines into molten body fluid

whitedragon wrote:

Savnock wrote:Oh, and if you're using Eldrad as your HQ: if you can save a power use to Mind War with, kill those Sanguinary Priests. Then you can use the bigger combo-shot template from the Prisms to take out half an assault squad every turn.

Hey whitedragon, it is actually only S6 AP3 when you're linking two. Check the rules- I make the same mistaken assumption sometimes too. I play against Plague Marines every so often and am painfully reminded of this every time.

It's much nicer to know that a Mind War can get rid of the FNP with the BA troops. Man do I hate Plague Marines.

Savnock wrote:

whitedragon wrote:

Savnock wrote:Oh, and if you're using Eldrad as your HQ: if you can save a power use to Mind War with, kill those Sanguinary Priests. Then you can use the bigger combo-shot template from the Prisms to take out half an assault squad every turn.

Hey whitedragon, it is actually only S6 AP3 when you're linking two. Check the rules- I make the same mistaken assumption sometimes too. I play against Plague Marines every so often and am painfully reminded of this every time.

It's much nicer to know that a Mind War can get rid of the FNP with the BA troops. Man do I hate Plague Marines.

Hmm....there's a Space Wolf player that is going to be a little upset with me I think....

I'll toss in my support for the banshees... as long as you're taking Doom. You need the combo, or else they flounder.. but I have personal experience using this set up against Jump-Angels, and whether they dive into assault marines with a priest, or Deathcompany, my results have been consistent- a massacre, leaving only one or two (on a few occasions, zero..) marines left alive to swing back.. as long as the unit has been successfully doomed... otherwise you're only going to drop 4 or 5, and the survivors are going to break the banshees' girly little necks.

wow, seriously, this guy is the ultimate space marine close combat fighter of doom WHO DOESN'T COME WITH AN INVUL SAVE.

All he is is high toughness with a lot of wounds. Take him down the same way you take down a Trygon (note, mephiston is less durable, and costs twice the points. Juicy).