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Now when I first started playing 40k I bought an army off ebay, threw it on the table and played my heart out. The models looked terrible, no effort put into modeling or painting, some of them just old ugly eldar models from 2nd ed. Long story short the army wasnt "mine" it was someone elses shoddy work.

I would be very dissapointed but I was new. Now I buy my models one at a time from a dealer, put them together with care and creativity, then diligently and lovingly paint every model. I wont even field the model till its painted to table top quality. My armies are "MINE" now. I bought them, put them together and painted them. I was a terrible painter but really it took practice and patience to get good enough were I was proud to field my work.

Now to the point of the thread. I get disgusted now when I go to my flgs and see veteran players walking into the shop with with a flavor of the month army they bought off ebay just to pwn people into the dust on the battlefield. BUT the models look terrible, there was no effort put into it, what are they getting out of all of it? Or they still have the same y looking army they have had the last 2 years and have done nothing to fix it. Im to the point were I only play players who have put the effort to at least make there models tabel top quality as I have, now I dont mind a primered model here or there awaiting work because thats a sign of progress.

Does anyone agree with me? Am I just being pompus? Or are people just lazy hobbyists with no real respect for the game? idk In my mind this game is just more than just winning on the table top, the hobby as a whole is my needs to be considered.

The hobby vs. game conversation comes up a lot, really. Everybody has different parts of the game they enjoy. I seldom field an unpainted model, and I absolutely love the painting and modeling aspect of the hobby. Meanwhile I know folks who can't paint to save their lives, so they just don't (or pay folks like me to paint em up )

Even then, some people play for fun, and others only want to win - namely the guys who you mention in your post fielding identical powergamey armies. Not everybody cares about the appearance of their models, which I think is kind of missing the point since the models are way cooler than the rules. I think you really need to be into painting, modeling, and gaming to get the most out of the game, but that's just me.

Also, the word is "hobbyist" - "Hobbist" is one letter off from Frodo and his buddies.

Dude, it's a game. Some people see it only as a game and therefore they play the game to win the game. Don't be a nazi about it, not everyone has the time/skill/determination to paint and convert everything like you do.

If you're really that ticked, be elitist and only play with people like you. Don't be surprised if you don't get a lot of games in with that attitude

I die inside when I see X amount of money being spent on nice models and not even trying to spray paint them. I completely understand that some people cannot paint (shaky hands or whatnot), but its the people who can but simply don't want to makes me sad.

I guess its just me. I never play anything that is unpainted, unfinshed, or just something shoddy in my eyes.

Mukkin'About wrote:Dude, it's a game. Some people see it only as a game and therefore they play the game to win the game. Don't be a nazi about it, not everyone has the time/skill/determination to paint and convert everything like you do.

If you're really that ticked, be elitist and only play with people like you. Don't be surprised if you don't get a lot of games in with that attitude

See your just one of those people who just like the gaming side of things. For me and people like me its not just a game, its a hobby. I set aside time to model and paint my pieces. With your logic why not just field green army men toys and call it good right? Its just a game.

I will only choose to play people like me who at least put SOME effort into there armies and I still find plenty of people to play with as I think most people involved in this hobby feel like I do and want to play visually decent models. I know most people cant paint an im ok with that. Just at least try to throw on the primer and a few colors, promise you'll get better at it the more you do so.

The only time ill willingly paint these shoddy "ebay armies" Ill call them is when I have to in tournaments otherwise I know at least there are plenty of decent hobbyists out there I can have a great beer and pretzels game with with fully/75% painted models the way the game was ment to be played .

I have inherited a trait from my mother, a trait that has cursed me with extremely shakey hands. This situation becomes worse if i get nervous. I tried to paint some of my models once and they looked like they'd been dipped in paint. Now i just dont bother in case i completely ruin more of my expensive models.

It doesnt help when apparently my only choice is to ruin my models or fork out more money for someone else to paint them, or not get to play at all because of elitists who won't play against my army because im unable to paint them.

I too suffer from a condition known as "Essential Tremors" that causes my body to shake slightly for no reason, also got it genetically from my mother.

Found a funny solution to this problem, I drink alcohol when I paint. lol the alcohol calms my overactive nerves and my painting actually gets better the more inebrated I am. lol obiously to a point though. Not saying you should do this but makes for a fun night when you have nothing better to do so you sit around and paint and drink with some of our buddies.

But really no matter how bad ur condition it just takes practice, and even a simple paint scheme will do just as long as ur trying thats what matters . What armies do you play btw? I find painting eldar to be a hopeless chore for me so I just went with ulthewe and did the models black and bone white with a bit of red here and there and actaully when they are all together look great! check my album for examples. Just have to find what works for you

I look at the hobby as a chance to hang out friends or make new ones, painted toys or none make no difference. For me its the human experience that counts most. I don't mean to come off as being on a soapbox, if I do I apologize.

I find that a couple of beers makes my hands steadier too!

I prefer playing against good-looking armies, to the point where if I can politely avoid playing against a stranger with a bunch of gray plastic i will do so. With a friend I'll let them proxy and play unpainted to their heart's content.

Double standard, I know.

I play as Eldar. Originally was painting them as Saim- Hann, which is essentially Ulthwe but red instead of black, but now i'm planning on eventually painting them as a custom craftworld with blue instead of black

Also, sure, maybe i'd be like you and drinking makes me a better painter, but that would eventually get very expensive, and i'm under 18

Why don't you use your holy rage to cleanse their army from the table. You could even say stuff like this as you win..

"Begone unpainted scum."

"The Emperor protects those who are painted!"

"The heretic must be cleansed, but the unpainted heretic is an abomination!"

And so on..

I personally love to paint my army. I won't buy used models pretty much just because I love building and painting them.

That said, I can't get my army painted to a ridiculous amount of detail (even though I'd absolutely love to) because I constantly shake. Not just my hands, my whole body. Why? Asthma. The medicine I'm on to keep me breathing causes my body to shake. If someone were to refuse to play my army because it isn't painted to the level of detail theirs is, I would be sad, as I am unable to get it to a standard even I want.

There are some people who are too busy to paint their armies. The BEST painter I know, former employee of my local GW(better painter then the manager, and the other employee who's been working there for 8 years) plays an unprimed Chaos Marine army, even though his painting skills make everyone in the store jealous. but he is usually too busy with work, family, and everything else in life to be able to sit down and finish painting all his stuff.

Laughing God wrote:I too suffer from a condition known as "Essential Tremors" that causes my body to shake slightly for no reason, also got it genetically from my mother.

Found a funny solution to this problem, I drink alcohol when I paint. lol the alcohol calms my overactive nerves and my painting actually gets better the more inebrated I am. lol obiously to a point though. Not saying you should do this but makes for a fun night when you have nothing better to do so you sit around and paint and drink with some of our buddies.

But really no matter how bad ur condition it just takes practice, and even a simple paint scheme will do just as long as ur trying thats what matters . What armies do you play btw? I find painting eldar to be a hopeless chore for me so I just went with ulthewe and did the models black and bone white with a bit of red here and there and actaully when they are all together look great! check my album for examples. Just have to find what works for you

Just looked at your album. I am in awe of your supposedly 'shakey' work. I wish i could paint like that.

yes, you're being pompous. Not everybody can paint, and, more crucually, not everybody has the time. Once you start balancing job, wife, and kids, it's not like there's a whole lot of time left to model (or so I hear).

That said, I agree with part of your hypothesis. I definitely notice that people seem to care MUCH less about models that they bought shoddily painted from someone else, and are MUCH more likely to pay special care and attention to models that they bought, built, and painted themselves.

Not having the time or ability to paint an army is one thing and I get that. Sometimes reality just doesn't work out that way for some people.

What really frosts my flakes is seeing people go out of the way to play Grey Plastic Marines so they can jump to whatever new 'overpowered' codex comes out. I will loathe someone like this to the ends of the earth, which by the way is roughly spherical so it has no ends.

My Marines are my best painted army all bought off of ebay, slowly stripped reoutfitted and primered. Its onothing thats gonna win an award but ... However I love to play and generaly hate to model and paint. \

Just remember painting is the hobby, playing is the game.

You're going to punish someone because they don't enjoy the hobby?

If that's actually a punishment, It may be a case of you hate getting your butt kicked by a shoddily painted army

Shaman wrote:Why don't you use your holy rage to cleanse their army from the table. You could even say stuff like this as you win..

"Begone unpainted scum."

"The Emperor protects those who are painted!"

"The heretic must be cleansed, but the unpainted heretic is an abomination!"

And so on..

This.

Laughing God wrote: My armies are "MINE" now. I bought them, put them together and painted them. I was a terrible painter but really it took practice and patience to get good enough were I was proud to field my work.

I'm so proud of you Doug, all grown up and berating the masses, you've come so far since that day long ago when I told you to take your ungodly Eldar outside the chest and primer them black.

Well. I would agree. I do like playing a painted army, or even a partially painted army. However now that I live an hour away from a store I don't get much chance to actually play, that and now that I have a job and various other things that must be done...I don't paint as much as I would like.
I do put effort into it though. I am trying to get my army completely painted before I go to a gaming store next.
With that said I still need to figure out an original/good paint scheme for my plague marines that still fit in with my army colors.(off topic yes,just felt like throwing it out there)
I really hate the fact that I don't have my army TTS yet.

Yes, you are being pompous.

This hobby of ours is one of many facets.
There is no reason to belittle those that prioritize a different aspect of the hobby than you.

I have one of the few fully painted armies in the area. If I were to be elitist I would get no games. Instead I'll play as it's just a game and to each his own. But, maybe while doing it my army will inspire them to work on their army a bit more.

This is quite a mixed bag. I'll side with LG on some points, given the care I give my miniatures I would like them to be up against painted stuff too. I'll agree with other posters that some people have a lot to do already, but that shouldn't mean that unpainted armies are to reign.

Repeatedly playing the same unpainted/just primed army just gives off a lot of bad signs for me.

Off-topic to the painters with, erm, more difficulties, I would like to see and talk about your work, if you don't mind posting some (in case you already have, could you point me to it, by p.m. or right here? Thanks!)

Click their name and check if they have images in the gallery then.

More difficulties such as myself? I can go take a photo of my terrible guardians if you want, in comparison to my warp spider that i paid to be painted and my dry brushed wraithlord?

Because I am blessed with steady hands and I have a rather healthy budding art career as a painter, I do appreciate playing against a well painted army. However as there are a lot of younger or inexperienced gamers with no idea how to use paint effectively I do encourage at least three colours, as an army really should have a funky uniform. I appreciate any effort in the painting and modeling department as long as it isn't a lazy attempt. I will point out that I am purely a fluff gamer, I play dark eldar, and I do win a fair bit, but not because of unfair tactics or POWER LISTS, so I guess I am part of the hobbyist aspect of the hobby as apposed to the competitive aspect.

I have painted my brothers army for him, as he was unsure of his skill with a brush and wanted them to look their best. I don't mind doing the odd freebie if it means that I get a new opponent enjoying the game as much as I do. Hope my five cents helps here


Great thread topic and debate!

Destrado wrote:This is quite a mixed bag. I'll side with LG on some points, given the care I give my miniatures I would like them to be up against painted stuff too. I'll agree with other posters that some people have a lot to do already, but that shouldn't mean that unpainted armies are to reign.

Repeatedly playing the same unpainted/just primed army just gives off a lot of bad signs for me.

Off-topic to the painters with, erm, more difficulties, I would like to see and talk about your work, if you don't mind posting some (in case you already have, could you point me to it, by p.m. or right here? Thanks!)

All the ones I have uploaded are either painted, or mostly. My Pred in my gallery is mostly painted, has been for a while, and the lord with wings is soon to be stripped and someone is painting it for me.

EDIT: With having one extra day off this weekend from work and nothing planned, I will be painting more of my models...might even get to my raptors that never see the light of day...

I think the problem people have is they don't like painting a model unless it's to the standard in the codices. People have a problem with fielding an army they painted when it's not absolutely jaw droppingly beautiful, so they just don't paint them at all.

These people need tor realize that a fully painted army, even to an average or below average standard, as long as it is consistent, looks fine on the tabletop, and really helps with the enjoyment of the game.

Destrado wrote:This is quite a mixed bag. I'll side with LG on some points, given the care I give my miniatures I would like them to be up against painted stuff too. I'll agree with other posters that some people have a lot to do already, but that shouldn't mean that unpainted armies are to reign.

Repeatedly playing the same unpainted/just primed army just gives off a lot of bad signs for me.

Off-topic to the painters with, erm, more difficulties, I would like to see and talk about your work, if you don't mind posting some (in case you already have, could you point me to it, by p.m. or right here? Thanks!)

My guardian, warp spider, and wraithlord ( In pieces) are now in my gallery.

My battlebuddy and I were rather disappointed at the state of the minis at 'Ard Boyz this year. When they lifted the "at least primed" rule, over half the armies were just slapped together minis. One guy that Jim played had "salamanders" and "ultramarines", well, kind of. I say this because it looked like a five year old with a bucket of Testors painted these things. He colored them to differentiate the squads.

That being said, Jim was getting complements left and right about the quality of his paint jobs. He only fields 4 incomplete models, terminators he needs to finish painting and putting on the crux shields.

Craftmanship seems to be a waning part of this hobby. Too many times I've seen kids who purchase the shiny new army before they're done even basecoating the old army; half the time its hard to tell what certain units are from a distance...

Personally I prefer playing against painted armies. It adds to a game and makes me respect someone more when they have taken the time to model, paint and base their units to at least a basic standard. I myself wouldn't field an unpainted army though. If you prefer playing painted armies OP then that's your choice. Everyone here gets something different from this hobby. Just dont be high and mighty to people at your local store. I get that some people are busy with other things but I've seen some armies that haven't had primer put to them in over two years!