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Well for startters your math is wrong. 8 hours sleep a day * 7 days = 56 hours, so thats a total of 30 hours left.

That aside, after such long days (and after sitting at s desk for most of those), i'd usually rather be a little bit active by playing rather than sitting down again.

Shaman wrote:Why don't you use your holy rage to cleanse their army from the table. You could even say stuff like this as you win..

"Begone unpainted scum."

"The Emperor protects those who are painted!"

"The heretic must be cleansed, but the unpainted heretic is an abomination!"

And so on..

I like your thinking

I personnaly play with to army's:a fully painted space marine army,which i am repainting to my "new" standards,and a 40-50% paintedtyranid army
and thats because of too many gaunts.
my best friends armies are mostly painted and to a good (even IMO high) standard,and those who aren't painted
are being worked at. My brother paints his armies quite bad,but I forgive him,because of his Tourette.

At the store,there are some players,who 1.dont paint their army 2.paint their army verry bad,and dont want to improve them 3. just annoy me
So,when some person want to play a game,and if that person is in one of the three catogories above,it most likely an no-no,or they will have to have a very good reasson
except: 1. they are new to the hobby (we all have to start somewhere) 2. they are working on their painting skills 3. i like them/friends

phew,that was a lot to type (for me)

General Opinion: people who (work on) painting = good,not=bad

liam0404 wrote:Well for startters your math is wrong. 8 hours sleep a day * 7 days = 56 hours, so thats a total of 30 hours left.

That aside, after such long days (and after sitting at s desk for most of those), i'd usually rather be a little bit active by playing rather than sitting down again.

Very True. There is only so much time to go around in the day, and you just have to have your priorities. I like painting (I'm not in love with it, but I like it) and have spent a fair bit of $ getting the supplies to paint/base my models properly. However, only a small fraction of my army is painted and making progress is slow. The fact of the matter is my free time is limited and other things just have a higher priority. It doesn't mean a dislike painting or wouldn't like to have a fully painted/based/assembled army, just that I'd like to have a fully painted/based/assembled army less than I'd like to do other things.

liam0404 wrote:@The OP

Sorry to be so brazen about this, but you are a complete prat if that is your attitude.

NOTHING pisses me off more when I walk into my local GW to play a game, when some of the people go "oh have you not painted that unit yet?"

Now i'm sorry that I work 12 hours a day, and that the ONLY opportunity I get to play warhammer is when I manage to get away from work early once a week. There are so many students in my shop, and they have all the time in the world to paint ot their hearts content. I sometimes struggle to find time to assemble, let alone paint.

Did you read any of my posts? Im a U.S. Marine and also work 10 to 11 hour days, besides weekends and even then sometimes I have to go into work. And Im required to go to formations and physical and combat training on my "free time". This plus an active social life leads to not alot of freetime. Its taken me 6 months to paint 1750 pts worth of models... not to the highest quality either, just to what I consider table top quality.

liam0404 wrote:Oh, and please don't label all us ebayers with the same brush - the only army i bought from Ebay was my necron army - if you want to call me a bandwagoner for that as well, well then youre a double idiot for that as well.

Im not besmurching ebay shoppers, I buy lots off ebay, honestly much cheaper than the criminal prices GW charges. But when I see some one buy a terrible looking army off ebay then do nothing to improve it for a year, it says something to the person obiously not putting any effort into their hobby. And at what point did I call anyone a bandwagoner just because you buy on ebay? alot of bandwagoners buy off ebay but not everyone who buys off ebay is a bandwagoner.

liam0404 wrote:If you wan't to come and paint all my models for me be my guest - I love painting (despite the fact that im not very good at it), and getting into the shop to play with my friends is more important to me than worrying about fielding a 100% painted list.

Once again ur lack of ability to read my previous posts clearly is showing. Im not looking for 100% painted lists just people trying to take an active part in the hobby outside of gaming. Really if you thing about it whats the point of buying GW minis at all if they are going to look like crap anyway and you dont give a gak about painting and modeling... just field paper clips and army men for all I care. But the reality is people do care they want to field models that represent there army.

liam0404 wrote:If anyone is the terrible hobbyist, its you.

lol you seem passionate about this to the point of insecurity. Im going to repeat all this again since you obiously didnt read my posts or you miss understood. I understand people dont have freetime to paint or model all the time. I understand people budget requires them to shop on ebay. I know some people cant paint well so just dont even bother trying. I know not everyone is like me...

What I dont understand is why some people dont try to put a little more into their hobby. Just one model a week or something if you dont have time. If your a bad painter, practice. What the excuse for not at least trying. I dont resent none painted/poorly painted armies. Id just like to see more effort esspecially when I somehow find the time to do so. Esspecially for those guys who roll into the tournament with there crappy SW they bought off ebay a year ago and roll tournaments with 6 TW cav and 3 squads of LFs. Its BS and I wont play these people outside of tournament.

So in your post you called me a prat, and idiot, and a terrible hobbyist. Ive been noting but rational, polite, and practical on this thread so far and you post this emotionally driven rant. Please take time to read my other posts and try to post like a mature adult.

What part of mellow are you people not getting?

last warning then the banhammer starts people.

That weiner dog on the right looks evil..

But yes. I prefer playing against painted armies. And given the choice Ill pick a painted army to fight against over a non painted force. Its not snobbery. I just find it far more enjoyable to see a painted up army. I like to talk about conversions, posing, basing and paint jobs of models during games. As this can sometimes give me ideas I wouldn't normally come up with for my own projects. Plus gives them a compliment. Anyone who takes the time to get an army to basic tabletop quality has my respect. ( By that I mean 3 colours minimum and bases done. )

My God, the hounds of Frazzled!

On the subject though, always good to see you agitating the masses Doug, though I have to say I side with you, though in a less vehement manner.

I view those of us who paint (irregardless of quality) as a form of 'Old Guard' if you will, almost like the last vestiges of some of the traitor legions, those who hold to the traditions and titles that have been there from the beginning.

On the other hand these "Terrible Hobbyists" who refuse to paint their armies or field hordes of "counts as" models represent those portions of the legion that no longer give a damn about old traditions, and rank, and pride. They only care about power and victory if you will, seeing everything else as useless sideline fluff.

Suffice to say I usually just look on with sadness at this trend, I try to stamp it out by encouraging people to paint, I'll even go out of my way to help people paint their minis just to show them there's more than just "winning the game".

Remember there was a time not so long ago when a certain someone's Eldar army was in the exact same spot, It takes positive reinforcement and the hand of a mentor and this cancer can be cured. However there will always be those who refuse and there's nothing you can do about it, you just have to accept the fact that they are lost to us and mourn their loss to the community.

(this metaphor was brought to you by Soul Hunter, excellent read lol)

Frazzled wrote:What part of mellow are you people not getting?

last warning then the banhammer starts people.

Got my chi back

1000 pardons me lord


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Heinrich wrote:
Remember there was a time not so long ago when a certain someone's Eldar army was in the exact same spot, It takes positive reinforcement and the hand of a mentor and this cancer can be cured. However there will always be those who refuse and there's nothing you can do about it, you just have to accept the fact that they are lost to us and mourn their loss to the community.

(this metaphor was brought to you by Soul Hunter, excellent read lol)

Yes I can say without a doubt that if not for you my eldar would look awful and id have never gotten the lessons I needed to complete my flesh tearers...now if I could just teach U how to win...lol

Look refusing to play people because they are painted is what is wrong with 40k. The sense of eliteism divides the community that enjoy 40k.

There should be no reason to turn anyone from 40k unless they are TFG, or an all out cheater. Unlike the elitists I will play anyone wiling to play, I will teach them if they don't know how to play, if they are into painting I will help them, but will not turn anyone away without a real good reason.

The more poeple into our hobby the stronger it becomes. The elitists are a big reason why 40k is not a bigger hobby. People are willing to spend $37.25 to buy a 10 pack of marines, but not put up with someone looking down thier noses at them because they'd rather get to playing, than paint their models.

UsdiThunder wrote:Look refusing to play people because they are painted is what is wrong with 40k. The sense of eliteism divides the community that enjoy 40k.

There should be no reason to turn anyone from 40k unless they are TFG, or an all out cheater. Unlike the elitists I will play anyone wiling to play, I will teach them if they don't know how to play, if they are into painting I will help them, but will not turn anyone away without a real good reason.

The more poeple into our hobby the stronger it becomes. The elitists are a big reason why 40k is not a bigger hobby. People are willing to spend $37.25 to buy a 10 pack of marines, but not put up with someone looking down thier noses at them because they'd rather get to playing, than paint their models.

This right here, is the most sensible and 100% correct thing said in this thread.

UsdiThunder wrote:
There should be no reason to turn anyone from 40k unless they are TFG, or an all out cheater. Unlike the elitists I will play anyone wiling to play, I will teach them if they don't know how to play, if they are into painting I will help them, but will not turn anyone away without a real good reason.

The more poeple into our hobby the stronger it becomes. The elitists are a big reason why 40k is not a bigger hobby. People are willing to spend $37.25 to buy a 10 pack of marines, but not put up with someone looking down thier noses at them because they'd rather get to playing, than paint their models.

See im not turning them away. I feel the same in helping new players and guiding them down the 40k path. But if 6 month later and they are still grey untouched models Ill prolly start to show less interest and veer more toward a player with a painted army. But if even a few of their minis are getting done ill glady play.

But in refusing to play them, is turning them away.

Refusing to play them is a rejection. If you are up front about it you have rejected them because they are lazy, if you are passive aggressive about they have no clue about why you won't play them and come off as an elitist snob.

Real Reasons to refuse to play a player

1. TFG (It can't be helped, you run across these guys no matter the hobby)
2. Known cheaters (We don't need these people in our hobby)
3. Known thieves (We don't need to encourage these scumbags to steal from the store, or other players)

edited for spelling

liam0404 wrote:Well for startters your math is wrong. 8 hours sleep a day * 7 days = 56 hours, so thats a total of 30 hours left.

Meh, I attempted that a bit too early in the morning.

The point stands. If you wanted to paint, you'd find time.

UsdiThunder wrote:Look refusing to play people because they are painted is what is wrong with 40k. The sense of eliteism divides the community that enjoy 40k.

There should be no reason to turn anyone from 40k unless they are TFG, or an all out cheater. Unlike the elitists I will play anyone wiling to play, I will teach them if they don't know how to play, if they are into painting I will help them, but will not turn anyone away without a real good reason.

The more poeple into our hobby the stronger it becomes. The elitists are a big reason why 40k is not a bigger hobby. People are willing to spend $37.25 to buy a 10 pack of marines, but not put up with someone looking down thier noses at them because they'd rather get to playing, than paint their models.

How is it elitism to prefer one thing over another. Part of my enjoyment of the hobby is pitting one painted army against another on a scenic table, creating an enjoyable visual experience. I'm not saying people shouldn't join the hobby, I just wish that painting was a bigger priority for some people.

That said, if someone is showing progress in their painting I don't have a problem with it. If they continually field the same heap of gray plastic for months going into years then it becomes more of an issue for me. Also, if someone is just getting into the hobby they obviously get more slack about this than a veteran.

Laughing God wrote:now if I could just teach U how to win...lol

Et tu brutus?

Mukkin'About wrote:Dude, it's a game. Some people see it only as a game and therefore they play the game to win the game. Don't be a nazi about it, not everyone has the time/skill/determination to paint and convert everything like you do.

If you're really that ticked, be elitist and only play with people like you. Don't be surprised if you don't get a lot of games in with that attitude

I have to agree with this, some people get into models just to collect and build, some just to paint and for others only to game etc. So don't get too bent out of shape over it and enjoy the hobby.

It is a point of pride for me that I almost always field a fully painted army, except during January, when I was refitting, repainting, and expanding my Tyranids, all at the same time.

That being said, I will not refuse to play you if you do not paint things. I might mock you if you never poaint things, but never refuse to play.

Ok, I'm going to try and stay within the Mod guidelines here. Not trying to offend anyone but this entire thread is full of it.

First off, it is a hobby. A HOBBY. Not some professional association or secret cult with guidelines. My job requires me to be physically and mentally fit, therefore yes I need to take the time (some of it my own) to maintain it. What I do with my extra hour is my own effing business and no one here should be lecturing anyone here about how they spend THEIR own time, whether its x-box, TV, WoW or whatever other stuff some people find useless. Stick it in your hat.

As far as the OP goes, get off his case. He preferes to play painted armies. Fine, that's his business. He stated why and so be it. It's is how HE wants to play HIS hobby.

If anybody told me how I should play or when to conduct MY hobby I'd tell him to eff off. Helpful tips and constructive criticism is one thing, and I appreciate that. I started this game with a book that let you cut out paper images of models and use them on the table. My first models were crap and now they are better than crap. But I don't presume to tell people how they should do things based on how I do things.

"Hey dude, you army looks nice, but you are a crappy tactician. Maybe you should read more Sun Tzu. I won't play you until you get better because I'm getting nothing from this" Sheesh.

If somebody does not want to play me because my models look bad in his view he's probably someone I don't want to play anyway so we both win. He wants to play Eavy Metal quality armies and I don't want to play guys like that. But at least I can respect his choice in what is a HOBBY.

Now, give me your lunch money.

PS. Just a note, when you title a thread Terrible Hobbyists, expect some reaction. I'm a terrible writer, but I enjoy writing. That does not make me a terribel Hobbyist because of it. Same with this.

UsdiThunder wrote:But in refusing to play them, is turning them away.

Refusing to play them is a rejection. If you are up front about it you have rejected them because they are lazy, if you are passive aggressive about they have no clue about why you won't play them and come off as an elitist snob.

Real Reasons to refuse to play a player

1. TFG (It can't be helped, you run across these guys no matter the hobby)
2. Known cheaters (We don't need these people in our hobby)
3. Known thieves (We don't need to encourage these scumbags to steal from the store, or other players)

edited for spelling

1. TFG (It can't be helped, you run across these guys no matter the hobby)
2. Known cheaters (We don't need these people in our hobby)
3. Known thieves (We don't need to encourage these scumbags to steal from the store, or other players)
4. I just don't ing want to play you.

Each to own. If someone doesn't want to play someone else thats their business.

Crantor wrote:Ok, I'm going to try and stay within the Mod guidelines here. Not trying to offend anyone but this entire thread is full of it.

First off, it is a hobby. A HOBBY. Not some professional association or secret cult with guidelines. My job requires me to be physically and mentally fit, therefore yes I need to take the time (some of it my own) to maintain it. What I do with my extra hour is my own effing business and no one here should be lecturing anyone here about how they spend THEIR own time, whether its x-box, TV, WoW or whatever other stuff some people find useless. Stick it in your hat.

Who's lecturing?

Just saying don't say you don't have time, just be honest and say that painting isn't a priority.

Crantor wrote:I'm a terrible writer, but I enjoy writing. That does not make me a terribel Hobbyist because of it. Same with this.

The places that I play (Local GW store included) used to have a '3 color minimum' rule. IE the majority of your minis to even be feilded, needed to be painted at least 3 colors. So you couldn't slap down a primed mini and call it done.

I think that that is a reasonable stadard to expect. Basc coat and throw a couple of dots in the eyese and paint a shoulderpad a different color. Thats about all I expect. Some effort please.

Monster Rain wrote:

Crantor wrote:Just saying don't say you don't have time, just be honest and say that painting isn't a priority.

Is it so inconcievable that someone might not have time? And you would question his honesty and insist that painting isn't a priority for him?

Is there a guideline for that time? Yeah, I painted every night one week in septembre. Octobre and Novembre were busy so I didn't have time to paint. True story. I guess that means painting isn't a priority. I guess work, family, social events, my son's birthday, making love to myself and eating chips took up most of my time (not all in that order and certainly to concurrently).

If a guy says he didn't have time then so be it. It happens. Everyone manages time differently.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Heinrich wrote:

Crantor wrote:I'm a terrible writer, but I enjoy writing. That does not make me a terribel Hobbyist because of it. Same with this.

Yes...yes...exactly...nothing to see here...move along.

Keep your hobby away from my game.

Keep your gaming away from my hobby

These threads always end the same way. You're talking about standards and the rules for standards are very simple.

People who have higher standards than I have are elitists, snobs, popinjays and they're ruining the hobby.

People who have lower standards than I have are lazy, dirtbags, ne'er do wells and they're ruining the hobby.

These rules parallel with how people think about other people's driving. People who drive faster than I do are maniacs who endanger everyone else on the road. People who drive slower than I do are incompetent morons who endanger everyone else on the road.

Arschbombe wrote:These threads always end the same way. You're talking about standards and the rules for standards are very simple.

People who have higher standards than I have are elitists, snobs, popinjays and they're ruining the hobby.

People who have lower standards than I have are lazy, dirtbags, ne'er do wells and they're ruining the hobby.

These rules parallel with how people think about other people's driving. People who drive faster than I do are maniacs who endanger everyone else on the road. People who drive slower than I do are incompetent morons who endanger everyone else on the road.

surrounded by morons!

Let's face it. You are always going to have this kind of division whether it is 40k, or another activity. All I am saying is that as a person who enjoys this hobby and game I can do one of two things

1. Only play those I think deserve to have a game with me, only if they meet my requirements.

2. Be truly open and play everyone except the 3 exceptions I mentioned.

The first excludes people, the second includes, and I'd rather be one of the ones including people. I've seen it for years.

You get the mentality of exclusion going then you wonder why there aren't as many players anymore. I've seen it happen with MTG, DnD, Battletech, Pokemon, Yugioh, Heroclix, etc...

edited for grammar

Monster Rain wrote:Just saying don't say you don't have time, just be honest and say that painting isn't a priority.

This is my pet peeve also. If folks with unpainted armies come right out and say "I don't like painting" or "I'd rather be playing xbox/spending time with kids/whatever" I'd respect them more than the "I don't have time" crowd since, for the vast majority of them, that's simply not true.

UsdiThunder wrote:Let's face it. You are always going to have this kind of division whether it is 40k, or another activity. All I am saying is that as a person who enjoys this hobby and game I can do one of two things

1. Only play those I think deserve to have a game with me, only if they meet my requirements.

2. Be truly open and play everyone except the 3 exceptions I mentioned.

The first excludes people, the second includes, and I'd rather be one of the ones including people. I've seen it for years.

You get the mentality of exclusion going then you wonder why there aren't as many players anymore. I've seen it happen with MTG, DnD, Battletech, Pokemon, Yugioh, Heroclix, etc...

edited for grammar

Good post that summarizes it.

As long as you respect both 1 and 2, then so be it. The OP has his way of enjoying the game. I have no problem with it. It's not the same way I like to play. Just as good.

To be fair though I think more players leave the game due to prices, rule changes or lack of gaming opportunities or even life changes..