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I know this sounds crazy but I was thinking of ways to make them usable as an army choice - I just want to ask of way to make imperial guard usable in close combat little tricks and tips that help out or if someone uses a cc imp army please do tell your experiences.

I know imps are not the best choice for cc but at the same time they could be made usable for example - using 70% of the gaming table as jungle and using imps jungle guys lots of flamers, close combat weapons and traps - this doesn't make them great at cc but it helps them survive so all I have to do is ask for a jungle terrain map and I could win some fights


any ideas?

I would not bank on terrain being favorable in most environments. If the list requires it, you probably need to tweak it.

Ailaros runs a great guard CC list with Priests, Commissars, Sergeants, and has loads of Battle Reports and detailed information for that kind of stuff. Sound the Ailaros Horn!

This probably is better in the Tactics section, I would go to the Battle Reports section and look up the 'Blood Conquers' set of battle reports about what is essentially a CC guard army.

The only thing i could suggest is make a blob as large as you can ( i dont play guard so i think its 40ish or something, youl ahve to correct me) and outfit it with as many commisars/ lord commisars you can toss in, add as many power weapons and assault based weaponry as you can

Don't forget Melta weaponry to help with vehicles - particularly LR and the like.

TheRedArmy wrote:Don't forget Melta weaponry to help with vehicles - particularly LR and the like.

Meltas are assault weapons man but yeah i should of clarified it more lol

I think this belongs in Tactics! MODs!

On to the OP's question. Personally I think if you make some really large 50 man blobs, give all the sergeants Power Weapons, and put a Commisar and Priest in it you could definitely have a nasty CC Guard army.

I've had my TH/SS Termies wiped out by this actually. So I know it works!

This list can be brutally powerful. Large blob squads (30-50 men; 40 is often optimal) equipped with a commissar with power weapon & power weapons on all the sergeants, meltaguns, and a few meltabombs just in case of walker. Half the blobs get autocannons, half lascannons. Straken is ideal for your HQ, giving Counterassault and Furious Charge in a wide radius. Al Rahem is a popular choice to give you a threat capable of outflanking onto the enemy side of the table.

It's a challenging army to play- you have to know how to use it, but is very strong in objective missions and almost borkenly unfair in KP missions.

Oh, BTW, moving thread to Tactics...

you can get lots of cheap ogres from wfb ogre kingdoms and just proxy model some kind of gun on them. nobody can argue with 3 slots full of ogryns.

That guard can't field a good CC army is a lie. A now several year old lie.

Guard armies can take huge units of stubborn troops with high, rerollable leadership and lots of hidden power weapons. I've ground down many a player with my power blobs.

And that's before you start considering other little goodies like rough riders or ogryn. The best part is that it's not just guard players who chronically underestimate guard close combat ability, it's likely your opponents will too (at least, until you start crushing them).

Add in some long-range support from Basilisks, Manticores, Heavy Weapons team, and others and you can really lay down some firepower on the way to crushing the enemy under the millions of boots of the Imperial Guard.

Ailaros wrote:That guard can't field a good CC army is a lie. A now several year old lie.

Guard armies can take huge units of stubborn troops with high, rerollable leadership and lots of hidden power weapons. I've ground down many a player with my power blobs.

And that's before you start considering other little goodies like rough riders or ogryn. The best part is that it's not just guard players who chronically underestimate guard close combat ability, it's likely your opponents will too (at least, until you start crushing them).

reading your battle reports as we type...good stuff - I like the name power blobs


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was thinking wouldn't it make sense using Krieg army list - as it offers a +1 to WS and make rough riders better and gives option of rough rider HQ and what are your opinions of tarantula turret - they are cheap and give a nice Heavy option without sacrificing my blob power.

yevix wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:
I was thinking wouldn't it make sense using Krieg army list - as it offers a +1 to WS and make rough riders better and gives option of rough rider HQ and what are your opinions of tarantula turret - they are cheap and give a nice Heavy option without sacrificing my blob power.

The thing that really sticks out in Krieg is that you can take power fists in your blobs.

Obviously, Kreig rules would work better. In fact, they work so well that your opponent is unlikely to allow you to use them. IA still needs opponent permission.

I'm up in the air on priests. They are dirt cheap compared to BA chaplains, but ow so squishy. I'm ready to call it no on eviscorators, for the same number of points I could buy 3 of the power weapon guys melta bombs. It seems all the portable chainfist is good for is getting the independent character picked off.

Probably going to try a power blob in 2 weeks when the escalation league goes up to 750 with 1 commissar and a bare bones priest.

I read a bunch of the battle reports. I don't think I understand the tactic here. How is this more effective than a green tide ork army? Is it the special weapons in the squads?

Firstly, you have hidden power weapons, lots of them. A boy mob is going to have, at most, one hidden klaw. Secondly, slugga boyz don't have the option to shoot instead of charge at close range (at least, not credibly), which can be useful in certain circumstances (let's NOT charge the 10x wych squad). Thirdly, a infantry blob is way more durable. Boyz may put down the hurt on the charge, but going last, even against guardsmen means that even guardsmen can outlast them.

As for priests, with proper movement, a priest should never get into base combat with an enemy model when you don't want him to be. I have only very rarely had priest picked off because I have only very rarely allowed my priest to ever actually get in the fight. The can't get targeted if they're not in base to base, and they're not in base to base if they started 18" away from the nearest enemy model when the charge began. Seems like kind of a waste to spend all those points for a priest just to not spend an extra 15 to make him death incarnate against vehicles.

How do you really keep the priests out? After the closest model moves, I thought ICs had to move before the rest of the unit. Even in that thought, you would want the priest to touch at least one guy wouldnt you? As long as you can make sure only that one guy could swing back at you, your opponent might just say screw it and throw the attacks at the whole blob (assuming the priest and another dude are touching him, etc.)

Even that one guy could conceivably kill him, considering he only has 1 wound and a 4++ Sv. Why risk it? Not to mention in a large combat, the consolidate moves could get him further engaged.

Whether moving before or after the unit, if you keep him far enough, he won't get in base-to-base.

Wow I was really hoping this wouldn't be about blobs. Is there no other way to do cc guard? We've got penal legion, ogryn, straken, priests, all fitting inside transports. Then there's riders.

Anyone with any experience on/of this?

Almarine wrote:Wow I was really hoping this wouldn't be about blobs. Is there no other way to do cc guard? We've got penal legion, ogryn, straken, priests, all fitting inside transports. Then there's riders.

Anyone with any experience on/of this?

that's exactly what I want too find out I like the idea of blobs (its like a small band of warriors 1-2 leaders and the rest is just free wounds and backup) but with Ogryns and rough riders and some tasty IA lists surely there is a way to make some other builds.

At the moment i am looking on how too use ogryns in chimeras - in cc situations

yevix wrote:At the moment i am looking on how too use ogryns in chimeras - in cc situations

Well, the best thing about ogryn is their toughness, they can really soak fire whilst shielding other guardsmen. They're more of an anvil than a hammer unit. So all they really need a chimera for is mobility, and even then I guess mostly if the rest of your force is faster than them. Myself I'd run them with a LC and camo cloak.

Then again a chimera is only 55pts, and useful for a bunch of other things.

I'm actually fairly smitten with the DKoK's Engineers as an assault unit, especially following a Hades Breaching Drill. Between their Shotguns and Gas Grenades, they aren't bad at finishing off squads weakened by the drill or destroying backfield units.

Nenya97 wrote:How do you really keep the priests out? After the closest model moves, I thought ICs had to move before the rest of the unit.

This is true, but he can only move 6". When you have 30+ guys, it's remarkably easy to keep at least one of them > 6" away. You don't want him to be in CC with infantry, but you DO want the eviscerator there for can opener detail.

Ailaros wrote:

As for priests, with proper movement, a priest should never get into base combat with an enemy model when you don't want him to be. I have only very rarely had priest picked off because I have only very rarely allowed my priest to ever actually get in the fight. The can't get targeted if they're not in base to base, and they're not in base to base if they started 18" away from the nearest enemy model when the charge began. Seems like kind of a waste to spend all those points for a priest just to not spend an extra 15 to make him death incarnate against vehicles.

Yea I'm sold on the idea that I can keep a priest out of CC. If I can do it with 10 man BA squads it should be even easier in a 30 man blob. My big issue with the chainfists is that math hammer.

For 15 points I could get 2 chainfist attacks at S6, 3 on the charge.
For the same 15 points I could get 3 melta bomb attacks with 3 melta bomb sergeants at S8

They hit vehicles on the same #
The priest hits walkers on a 4+ with reroll compared to the 6+ for the sergeants, but the walker can just pick off the priest on initiative before he swings.

An added bonus with the melta bombs is I would be far more willing to DoG a sergeant against a tank shock than a priest, and 3 models is much more difficult for a tank to avoid.

Last but not least is a philosophical question: Why is it in 40k or WHFB that the cheaper a horde army becomes the cheaper the players become? It's so easy not to sweat 15-25 points in my blood angels or dwarf armies to the point that I buy stuff for looks, but when it comes to cheap horde armies like IG or Goblins I start to sweat every last point.

schadenfreude wrote:
Yea I'm sold on the idea that I can keep a priest out of CC. If I can do it with 10 man BA squads it should be even easier in a 30 man blob. My big issue with the chainfists is that math hammer.

You should take both, 3 melta bombs AND the priest, that way you have 6 attacks on the charge. Also, no matter how terrible your luck at leaderships, the priest will be the last thing summarily executed in the squad due to LD 7, while you start to lose meltabombs with the first failed leadership.

A banner on the ccs would make its points back after stopping 1 execution.

DarkHound wrote:I'm actually fairly smitten with the DKoK's Engineers as an assault unit, especially following a Hades Breaching Drill. Between their Shotguns and Gas Grenades, they aren't bad at finishing off squads weakened by the drill or destroying backfield units.

Not sold on gas grenades, 20 points for D6 hits with D6 strength hits is not very impressive. But I do love the engineers with a demolition charge. Hades large template, followed by a demo charge and up to 38 S3 attacks before the opponent gets to swing back. This can easily crack rhinos or even raiders, and annihilate the entire squad inside.

Keeping a priest out of CC is easy.

In the case of a power blob, the damage being done is primarily from the power weapons. As such, you can "waste" a few bayonet stabs to keep the priests further away.

I mean, if you have your 21 troops in a conga line, when you initiate an assault, you still get all your power weapons in range, while simultaneously seeing your priest 63" away from the nearest enemy model. This means it would take 11 turns for the priest to finally make it up into close combat. It should be resolved by then.

This example may be extreme, but I've definitely had priests WAY in the back of squads before. They don't make it into close combat unless I want them to be there. It just takes a little planning in the movement phase.

Agreed. I played a power blob-style list over the weekend against my buddies' Space Wolves and walked away victorious!

More to the point, one of priests did get sucked in to combat unfortunately, but it was my first time with th elist and horde armies in general so my whole model placement was a pretty shaky.

I took Creed, 1 30 man blob to walk up the field, a blob with Al'Rahem to go crazy on the board edges, 2 Devildogs, 2 Manties, and several Melta SWS's. I was not too impressed with the Devil Dogs or Creed too much, but so far in every game that I have used Manticores they have done exceedingly well for me. Al'rahem actually took out a Rune Priest 1-on-1 with only 2 wounds left!

So yeah, Guard are most definitely quite capable in combat. Sorry for the rant...lol. I really am enjoying this army xD