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As the title says, what is the hardest army to play?
At least for a beginner.

I'd say its either Eldar/Dark Eldar (widely thought of as needing a lot of skill and knowlage of the game to play) or something like Tau/Necrons (that are just very outdated and in real need of an update).

Aye, purely from a stats perspective, I'd say DEldar, just because EVERYTHING is T3.

Cerebrium wrote:Aye, purely from a stats perspective, I'd say DEldar, just because EVERYTHING is T3.

.....apart from Wracks, Grotesques, some beasts, Talos, Cronus ect

OK, rephrase, the majority has T3.

As an Eldar player, I'd say them. You really need to understand how to play with them. They're great when utilised effectively but if not you get stomped. (or maybe I'm just a bad player, haha)

They just have really odd strengths and you need to learn how to play to them.

Eldar or possibly tau as the amount of rapid assault forces makes their stand and shoot style difficult

A lot of you are saying eldar, which is very much the case when looking at it form a glance.

However both eldar forces have units that can preform well in all combat scenarios.

In contrast, tau can only do one thing, shoot. If anything touches their lines in melee then they are as good as dead. Combine this with all the cover saves we get in 5th ed it just spells doom for the tau forces.

Can't they remove cover saves? Yup, but it takes around 200 points for the cheapest way to generate enough markerlights to ignore a 4+ cover for one target on the table, and this unit can't move for the rest of the game and stay effective.

Don't get me wrong, both eldar armies are tough to play, but it's even more so with tau.

For a beginner... Eldar or any list that requires too much synergy.

Surely, with guidance, anyone can push plastic around a tabletop and roll dice.

Chaos Daemons are hard. ITs very crushing for a beginner to have their 20 strong blood letter squad mishap first turn and die without touching the table top.

Like jurai said, Coverhammer 40k has killed off Tau effectiveness. We've been demoted to flinging wet noodles at stuff and running away from them as they come into melee range. Kroot are okay, but they're a real one-use only unit; once they've hit combat as your roadblock or whatever you want to use them for, they'll take too many casualties to be used again if they survive the combat.

Crisis suits are still powerful, and broadsides/hammerheads are still feared because of the railgun (broadsides less so due to outflanking meaning that a scouting unit can out flank and charge them to hold them up. A cheap unit like CSM Termicide can also Deep Strike in and shoot them to death), but there's not much else.

Eldar have some good melee; Scorpions are compatent, Banshees are sub-par but have PWs (it's their S3 that lets them down, you might charge a space marine unit and hit first and on 4s, but when you're wounding them on 5s it removes a lot of the threat you originally posed), and they both have good armour saves.

With Tau, you can't let stuff reach you in combat. FWs have a 4+ save, but that means sod all if you only get 1 WS2 I2 S3 attack each back like FWs do; it doesn't matter if they don't take huge casualties since they lack the power to reliably retaliate. Crisis Suits can hold a bit due to T4 and S5, but they're still bad at CC.

Today's Tau armies are quite linear, a full FoC chart usually looks like this:

HQ:
Shas'el
Shas'el

Elites:
Crisis Suits
Crisis Suits
Crisis Suits/Stealth Suits

Troops:
<Any mix of FWs and Kroot>

Fast Attack:
Pathfinders
Pathfinders/Piranha Squadron
Piranha Squadron

Heavy Support:
Broadsides/Railhead
Broadsides/Railhead
Broadsides/Railhead

That goes for games anywhere from 500pts+ and it's rare that you'll find effective deviations.

With Eldar, Farseers, Autarches and the Avatar or Eldrad can all be effective HQs. Elites are usually fragons, but can also include harlies or scorpions, maybe even banshees or wraithguard. Troops are like Tau in that it's uaully two barebones units of guardians or dire avengers because their troops selection is, well, dire. Rarely you'll have a spiritseer leading wraithguard as troops.

Eldar Fast Attack is worse than Tau in that barely any of it is of any real use. Vypers are fragile, Warp Spiders are sub-par, Shining Spears i've never actually seen in an eldar army and Swooping Hawks are pretty much the epitome of uselessness, hindered largely by their weapon choice of a single lasgun each. Heavy Support can range from Wraithlords to falcons to Fire Prisms and sometimes even dark reapers or war walkers. The only HS slot i've never seen taken is the weapons platform.

Comparitively, Eldar are a lot more customisable army-wise than Tau, only really lacking in fast attack and troops, whereas Tau have certain units from each slot that should be taken, and certain units that should not.

I have to say Eldar. I cant help it. I learned my army against SWs and IG. God its hard learning against such brokenness. Yeah there are more outdated codices out there but I feel like even when Eldar get a new codex they wont be easy to play. When you make mistakes with Eldar you can count on losing entire units in a single turn. Maybe even more than one unit. Couple that with an overcosted codex and the need to be able to use multiple units in unison and they're a very challenging , but satisfying army to learn.

I would disagree about Chao Daemon, I have a friend that started with them and he has never had a problem with them, if anything they are easier then most as you don't have to worry about AP anything or instant death or even leadership checks. Sure your going to have to read the Deep Strike section of the BRB, but next to that they are fairly simple.

I would agree with Eldar/Dark Eldar, but I would also say any older Army due to the simple fact that their codexes conflict with the current rule book.

I'll go against the grain and say - this applies only to a complete novice that has never played any form of tabletop before - and say guard. everything is t3 except for some special characters and ogryns (the dollar cost of which puts them in the "never use" basket anyway), combined with the sheer number of choices in the codex can just bewilder people. It's so easy to go "man thats cool" and have a whole heap of ineffectual units that compliment your weakness on the table. And, on paper, some absolutely useless things just look awesome...

Mind you, the learning curve is much smoother than some other races - like eldar.

I disagree with Dark Eldar being hard to play, they are a new codex dripping with cheese. A friend of mine has had good success with them despite being the least experienced member of our gaming group.

I'd recommend to anyone starting to pick your first army on what you think is cool, not what is easy to play. Pick the army that appeals to you the most, looks, background and style.

Then learn the rules they arn't too hard :-)

Cerebrium wrote:Aye, purely from a stats perspective, I'd say DEldar, just because EVERYTHING is T3.

Yeah, no.

Try an army that doesn't have a rockin' competitive 5th edition codex.

Necrons maybe.

I would say necrons are hard to play especially for beginners cause they are a little confusing and also tau because like other people said once they get in combat you lose immediately. not to go OT but one of the most annoying armies to fight against in my opinion is IG because i know someone who plays them and it is basically a firing line with 100 some odd shots

This should really be two separate questions: "what army/armies are hardest to play as a matter of design (intentionally requiring more skill and awareness to use, but very good when used correctly)?" and "what army/armies are hardest to play as a result of being poorly written, or having been written for effectively a different game (requiring a good deal of skill and awareness just to get to "normal" effectiveness)?"

What on earth does your toughness characteristic have to do with being hard to play? Guardsmen have the the same T as Guardians and Fire Warriors. Necron Warriors have the same T as Grey Hunters. An army's economics and set of capabilities have far more influence on its ease of use than any single characteristic.

Tyrandis, because you have to learn how to get your army to the enemy without getting shot to death on the way.

From a personal experience perspective, I'd say that Chaos Daemons had by far the most difficult unit list to wrap my head around. It's the only book I've ever read and though "I have no idea what the heck to do with these guys".

Hardest on your wallet? Sisters of Battle.

Hardest to play, Dark Eldar. I have been collecting for years, but I am still a newer player. That army is very hard to play.

@Avatar720
I can't help but disagree. Not that I think Tau have more options or are better than Eldar, but that they're harder. I think it's pretty easy to hold back and shoot. Eldar have to seize control of the battle and maneuver a lot with many units that have to be used in a single specific way. Every phase is vitally important.

I'm not saying that Tau don't have it rough, because they do. But I don't think it's that hard to look at the table and know what each unit needs to do each turn or where it needs to be.

From what i have been told/read, DE and Eldar are difficult to play well.

I'm guessing this is due to the fact that both armies are made up of untis which are made for specific tactics, where as marines (for example) are jack-of-all trades.

Hard to play with for a newbie? Definately Eldar. They are EXTREMELY unforgiving. Tau are harder to win with, but you essentially only need to learn the shooting and moving phase (and then only how to move in reverse, usually) to start out with that army.

I think it's pretty easy to hold back and shoot.

The concept is. It's when you realise that pulse rifles can't move and fire more than 12" and that 4+ cover saves are about as rare as a fat kid who hates cake that it becomes hard.

Anything that can outlfank/deepstrike/jump pack/fleet or otherwise get to your half of the board quicker than by turn 3-4 is going to give you hassle; even Dawn of War deployment is hard if your opponent goes first.

I lost to a necron player who set up his army on the line that seperates the table halves, I stole the initiative (-.-) and had to bring my models on, meaning nothing but the hammerheads, devilfish and crisis suits could shoot at 40 necron warriors and a necron lord hidden behind a wall. His turn 1 consisted of 40 necron warriors marching up into rapid fire range (or just marching up and weathering the attacks) and blasting me apart.

I was boxed in from turn 1 through no fault of my own.

Any army that can be rendered useless before their first turn is going to struggle, especially if they rely on the distance between them and their enemy.

I would have to go with Eldar and Tyranids. both require alo of Synergy within your army, and with both armies any mistake you make could cost you most (If not all of) an entire unit.

Admittedly, Eldar are harder to play than Tyranids because Tyranids have Numbers and some MC's to soak up fire, but many of the MC's are very expensive pointwise and get torn apart by Krak Missle Spam.

I'm going to have to agree with Eldar, for a few reasons:

1) Units are somewhat overcosted compared to many armies, so you have less to work with.

2) Maneuverability is their main strength, and mastering that takes a lot of player skill.

3) They require extreme synergy to work well, and new players have a hard time identifying this.

4) The codex is full of cool looking models (both in terms of rules and aesthetics) that are simply terrible in-game, so new players field absolutely worthless armies.

I'd have to agree with the Eldar.

It's a finesse rather than a blunt instrument, like Orks. You need to be on top of your game to win at tourneys.

With eldar, some simple steps can be followed and you will achieve success.

Doom and guide on a farseer. Makes anything in the army at least 100% more effective. Banshees just got scary.

Knowing what aspect warriors to take and what ones will conflict with your setup. There is no reason to take fire dragons if you have tons of anti tank elsewhere.

Focus, don't spread yourself thin. One fire prism is far less effective than two would be.

Your play can easily adapt to the opponent. Fighting orks? Bunker up in the back and gun them down, using your mobility to isolate and destroy mobs. Fighting guard? Spread out and push forward with your melee, focusing down the dangerous vehicles first.