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The last time i played WH40K last week i got curbstomped by a pair of basilisks who tore my my 1.5k SM army apart before i could even get close to close combat and let alone use my Vindi.

Turn one:

Lander Raider x2 move forward.
Vindicator moves forward.
Two rhinos full of Tactical Marines move forward.

Turn one team 2:

Basilisk destroys a vindicator and a rhino.

Turn two team 1:

Despressedly moves forward towards objectives.

Turn two team 2:

Beats down the rest of my army. :(P)

A few Q's to help with clarification as we plod down that merry road towards a vague solution.
How big was the playing area/table?
How much terrain did you use?
What was in the land raiders?
Where were the 'lisks in relation to your forces?
Were they far enough away to use indirect fire?

@reply to Exhumed

The size was roughly 60"x80"

It was on the carpet, no real measurements.
I rushed towards terrain, and there was alot of terrain, some large buildings, but mostly Macragge crashsite terrain.
The first Land Raider, had the Chronus upgrade but was full of a tactical squad being used by my partner, and the second had 5 stormshield thunderhammer Termies with Cassius as chaperone.
The lisks were hidden from LOS by multiple other tanks crowding around the 'lisks holding position in the far right, where my army was deployed in the close right. It was a 2v2 match but the 'lisks focused on me.
The range was fairly close, around 48" maximum after my turn was complete.

It sounds like some lucky rolling on his part. I've never seen Basilisks take down vehicles massively effectively without a fairly large dose of luck. They are a terror thought, that's true enough.

Basilisks have amazing firepower, but they crumple to any shooting at all. You can actually wreck them with bolters due to side armor 10 and open-topped. Perhaps a drop pod or two with some melta-sternguard in them?

That's what put me off basilisks. Your opponent will usually have something deep striking/outflanking/infiltrating around them. And at that point, there will be little I can do unless I dedicate some bodyguards.

If they don't have LoS against you, their ballistic skill doesn't matter and I believe it still scatters even if a hit is rolled.

Of course if he rolls really low, you're still going to get hit if its a big vehicle, but double 1s is pretty lucky.

If you let your basilisks sit without protection from deepstrikers then you're playing IG wrong.

Basilisks are nasty pieces of equipment that I personally use to tear apart marines and mob armies. The best thing you can do is keep out of line of sight and hope that he scatters a ways away. Unfortunately they're barrage ordnance weapons so now they get the added bonus of either adding a crew shaken result on top of the results or allowing him to use 2 D6 and picking the higher one for the damage result.

The best bet if he has surrounded his basilisks with units is to use a fast attack skimmer or something. It flies over terrain and if it moves flat out it gets a nice save and as noted even a bolter can take down a basilisk if it gets close enough.

Note; its better to use something counting as a skimmer as you can prevent him from counting intervening models as cover. If you use bikes then they're at the same level and a squad of guardsmen can allow the basilisk to count as obscured.


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daedalus-templarius wrote:If they don't have LoS against you, their ballistic skill doesn't matter and I believe it still scatters even if a hit is rolled.

Of course if he rolls really low, you're still going to get hit if its a big vehicle, but double 1s is pretty lucky.

That's the master of ordnance. If a basilisk has no LoS ballistic skill isn't reduced, but if it rolls a hit it hits. With the Master of Ordnance if it hits it scatters 2D6 and if it misses it scatters 3D6, if he has LoS then he can reduce his BS.

daedalus-templarius wrote:If they don't have LoS against you, their ballistic skill doesn't matter and I believe it still scatters even if a hit is rolled.

No, hits are still hits. Only drawback to indirect is losing BS.


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Skinkslayer wrote:

The size was roughly 60"x80"
...

The range was fairly close, around 48" maximum after my turn was complete.

Ah well now, apart from a lack of DS/infil/flank/scout to put hurt on them, your mech rushdown was severely hampered by an overly large board for what sounds like a fairly modest game size. Try measuring out a 48 x 72 field next time

halonachos wrote:Unfortunately they're barrage ordnance weapons so now they get the added bonus of either adding a crew shaken result on top of the results or allowing him to use 2 D6 and picking the higher one for the damage result.

What do you mean by "adding a crew shaken result"? I have never heard of this, unless it is from an old edition.

lindsay40k wrote:

daedalus-templarius wrote:If they don't have LoS against you, their ballistic skill doesn't matter and I believe it still scatters even if a hit is rolled.

No, hits are still hits. Only drawback to indirect is losing BS.

Close. If the basilisk fires indirectly *and* has no LoS, then the scatter is not reduced by the basilisk's BS.

If the basilisk fires directly or *indirectly and has LoS,* then the scatter is reduced by its BS.

But yes, a hit is a hit either way for a basilisk.

Just get within 36 inches and move forward, they have a minimum range, which means if you're close enough they cannot fire at you. Drop pod, assault troops, anything you can do to get close.

Tip for your guard opponent though, tell him to use medusas instead, no minimum range plus, a strength 10 AP 2 large blast .

Commisar Von Humps wrote:Just get within 36 inches and move forward, they have a minimum range, which means if you're close enough they cannot fire at you.

The minimum range applies to indirect fire *only.* A basilisk has no minimum range on direct shots.

Dropping your assault troops 6" in front of a basilisk is just asking to get the earthshaker template put right on top of them.

Trickstick wrote:

halonachos wrote:Unfortunately they're barrage ordnance weapons so now they get the added bonus of either adding a crew shaken result on top of the results or allowing him to use 2 D6 and picking the higher one for the damage result.

What do you mean by "adding a crew shaken result"? I have never heard of this, unless it is from an old edition.

Same here. i know that ordnance gives you 2D6 and you choose the higher. But an added Crew Shaken? I'm assumign this is due to the Barrage part of the gun.......so do you get to choose which oen you get? Do you get both?

Commisar Von Humps wrote:Just get within 36 inches and move forward, they have a minimum range, which means if you're close enough they cannot fire at you. Drop pod, assault troops, anything you can do to get close.

Errr...you are aware that the Basilisk is not prohibited form firing directly? The Colossus and the Griffon can not fire directly.

The three key things here:

Skinkslayer wrote:The size was roughly 60"x80"

You played on a board that was nearly 50% too large on the axis that mattered here. This SERIOUSLY plays to the advantage of a guard player with artillery.

htj wrote:It sounds like some lucky rolling on his part.

Basilisks have what it takes to take down a land raider, but one-shotting it straight away on turn 1 is pretty rare....

Skinkslayer wrote:Lander Raider x2 move forward.
Vindicator moves forward.
Two rhinos full of Tactical Marines move forward.

Your list is terrible.

With a list like this, a little bit of bad luck (or any other X factor, like, say, too large of a board) is going to punish you a very long way. Replace your awful land raiders with things in drop pods and tell us if things go the same way next time.

Exactle, the Bassie only has a minimum range if you choose to fire Indirectly.

Also, can i just ask. Those kills all seem to be amazingly accurate. I dont want to seem condescending at all, so i apologise if this comes accross as such.......but did ALL those hits land with the dot over the target? Just to remind that if the dot is off target then the hit is only half strength.

+1 to what Ailaros said.

The Basilisk can be nasty, but also fragile. It crumples to shooting, and even more to assault. It's very vulnerable to deep striker, outflankers...anything that can get around the main IG force in front of it. I'm forced to sit around and baby sit my Bassies with bubble wrap blobs if I want them to live.

That being said, I agree with Ailaros on this. You have a bad list overall, and you were playing on too big a board. Yes, the Guard player got lucky, with his shooting it seems, but it also seems like your armry was far too concentrated in a few vehicles. Invest in drop pods or something, and have those TH/SS termies deep striking down. To be honest, this seems like arty IG's dream come true...Space Marines advancing across open terrain for a few turns without any risk of closing.

We played a apoc offense vs defense mission the other day (poor choice), and our IG player just LOVED it.

Sat in the back with tanks, arty, etc, and just pounded away as we approached. I don't know what I was thinking doing that kind of a mission. Needless to say the constant manticore barrages and medusa fire left both of my LRs with broken tracks and down a few weapons in the middle of the field with my paladins trying to hoof it through the middle of the board to the objective (fortress of redemption).

It was an arty IG's dream come true, that is certain. Won't be doing that mission again.

Thanks guys, i thought about drop pods, but the Basilisks where surrounded by Chimeras and a Medusa and a Leman Russ too, the field was a fair size for a 2v2 match though. It wasnt my original list, because i usually have more manpower. And more close combat units like teminators teleporting in.


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And praxiss, i had the rhino and vindi a bit close together, and the two shots Immobed one and wrecked the other.

The drop pods wouldn't care, I think. Don't drop pods have a rule where they can move around to find a safe place to come in basically?

The board is way too large, first off. Secondly, your opponent is extremely lucky, that normally won't happen. Get up close and personal with Drop Pod MM Dreadnoughts and wreck them ASAP. Or Sternguard.

DarkHound wrote:+1 to what Ailaros said.

Trickstick wrote:

halonachos wrote:Unfortunately they're barrage ordnance weapons so now they get the added bonus of either adding a crew shaken result on top of the results or allowing him to use 2 D6 and picking the higher one for the damage result.

What do you mean by "adding a crew shaken result"? I have never heard of this, unless it is from an old edition.

I'm not sure if its the current rule or not(packing up to move and my books are in a box somewhere) and I can't readily check. There used to be a rule for ordnance weapons IIRC that allowed them to cause a crew shaken result due to the impact of the explosive. I know that the 2D6 one applies and if the other rule exists you would get both. I know that if you use a barrage weapon and it gets a direct hit on the vehicle you go off of the side armor and and if its ordnance you get to roll 2D6 and choose the highest.

Yeah, the rules changed, all you get from ordnance now, you get 2d6 pick the highest, and barrage hits side armor because they're landing on top.

ChrisWWII wrote:Yeah, the rules changed, all you get from ordnance now, you get 2d6 pick the highest, and barrage hits side armor because they're landing on top.

Even though I hit my friend's Landraider I make sure that he recognizes the difference between the armor I'm hitting.

Friend: Okay, armor value 14
Me: Uh-uh, side armor 14

Ok, well i dont have many MM, ill have to use my half finished LS squadron. Unpainted and unmanned, oh boy! Progress has never been so much fun. But im trying to build an Imperial Guard army, so im not really fussed about the SM anymore. Not my cup of tea.

Are you aware that only the hole in the very center of the template counts for penetrating vehicles with artillery? If the hole is not over the vehicle, it's only a str 4 hit. I can't imagine a situation where the vindicator and the rhino would BOTH be under the hole.

Two Basilisks, two seperate shells, and a lot of good rolling on the IG players part.