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At my local store we have a decent number of players prolly close to 15 regulars but most can't afford to go shell out big $$$ to add multiple flyers to their lists I have 3 storm ravens an three vendettas an if I were to run all six I would shred most of their armies.I won't run all 6 because I don't wanna be tfg, but I could. Air power is just to damn strong.

I hate threads like these so much.

Flyers aren't broken. If you're killing your local competition it's because none of them are capable enough at list building. That's not saying they're not good, but if you're running a 6 flyer list, there are certainly ways of bringing them down.

All six is a lot of points to put into your fliers, which are not on the table during turn 1, and not too helpful in capture/control scenarios if there is any cover. Likewise, if they try to drop off troops, then they'll be blown up right away.

Fliers have not broken the game. Now maybe let's hopefully end this thread quickly before it becomes yet another sky-is-falling rant.

Fortifications, Nuff said.
Also don whine, we are a month in. No new codex releases. We will see more models with skyfire from now on.

For Now I have to agree with that statement, not many teams are well equipped to deal with the air menace that is 6th edition. However, i'm hoping with new codex/faqs/white dwarf updates they start adding some more units with skyfire that should balance the game out a bit.
In the meantime (for fun), me and the guys I play with are deciding to set up some turrets that will be scattered places on the board that have skyfire which should make some things interesting for the flyer units. Just an idea we had!

Run em

My DE and Orks could both use the target practice..

Actually it's not so much that flyers in general have broken the game as those two specific flyers are cheaper and more potent than they have a right to be, especially since only the IG are allowed to squadron flyers for some reason?

Run non-IOM flyers and they aren't gamebreaking at all... you know, the ones that aren't OP/UC as crap and with extra bells and whistles

I have had. so many destroy my fliers,
I had necrons mass fire it to death.
I have had a reddemer template it.
I have had Kantor punch it to death.
Point being, on a 4x6 fliers will either be forced to go into hover or off the bored(something no one wants)

On top of what everybody else has said, the OP statement doesn't even make sense with an internally-cohesive look at the rules themselves.

Most missions are won by holding objectives. Can fliers hold objectives? No. Can fliers contest objectives? No. Can fliers deliver scoring units to objectives? Only a few of them can, and they have to hover to do it (which means instant death), and can only deliver flimsy troops choices (like guardsmen or guardians) that are basically burned up in a huge fireball if you get a lucky shot against their flier.

Expand scope a bit and you see something that's not showing up until turn 2 or 3, and has serious mobility restrictions (must move at least 18", may only turn 90 degrees, etc.). Fliers really are only good against a couple of things. If you're really having such problems against them, then don't take those few things fliers are explicitly good against.

hotsauceman1 wrote:I have had. so many destroy my fliers,
I have had a reddemer template it.
I have had Kantor punch it to death.

Your model that can't be hit by template weapons or assaulted was destroyed by a template weapon and in an assault?


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Ailaros wrote:On top of what everybody else has said, the OP statement doesn't even make sense with an internally-cohesive look at the rules themselves.

Most missions are won by holding objectives. Can fliers hold objectives? No. Can fliers contest objectives? No. Can fliers deliver scoring units to objectives? Only a few of them can, and they have to hover to do it (which means instant death), and can only deliver flimsy troops choices (like guardsmen or guardians) that are basically burned up in a huge fireball if you get a lucky shot against their flier.

Expand scope a bit and you see something that's not showing up until turn 2 or 3, and has serious mobility restrictions (must move at least 18", may only turn 90 degrees, etc.). Fliers really are only good against a couple of things. If you're really having such problems against them, then don't take those few things fliers are explicitly good against.

Hey! Go take your logic elsewhere! Can't you see the sky is falling here

It can if it hovers

Hover mode flyers can be assaulted just fine

Valks can use grav chute insertion to deliver troops without entering hover mode granted it is really unreliable

Flyers don't break a thing.


It gives my Hydras something to shoot at.



Get some of these (AA Guns). be it fortifications, or dedicated AA weapons (or just spray a ton of rounds into the sky) and its all good.

Ascalam wrote:It can if it hovers

Hover mode flyers can be assaulted just fine

I'm glad you could make the next step in logic-

"why the did you hover your flyer in front of pedro kantor?"

There is that

Not something i would do, but then none of my flyers get to hover

Jihallah wrote:"why the did you hover your flyer in front of pedro kantor?"

Fell victim to the old "Up high!" trick.



Gets them every time...

Crimson-King2120 wrote:Valks can use grav chute insertion to deliver troops without entering hover mode granted it is really unreliable

Right, it can drop off 10 flimsy guardsmen (that better not scatter into terrain), which will be easily destroyed in the next turn of shooting/assaulting.

Jihallah wrote:Hey! Go take your logic elsewhere! Can't you see the sky is falling here

Actually, it's not pieces of the sky that's falling, it's fliers! Fliers everywhere!

Get them off me, get them off me!!!

<sigh> Fliers have not broken the game

As it stands some fliers are undercosted (Vendetta, Night/Doom Scythes) and some are underpowered (Razorwings don't get Vector Dancer? Really????)

As always with GW it is not a fault of the core rules, it is a fault of the Codices. Hopefully as 6th edition Codices drop fliers will be rebalanced with changes to points cost, abilities and ground based AA that will make them fit into the game better (to be replaced of course by the next piece of cheese that the design team has overlooked in their 'playtesting process' to stinkily fester in the corner of the gaming halls ).

"This new thing noone is bothering to prepare for has broken my perfect game! Why would GW CHANGE things in their new edition?! Heresy!"

Nah; just like glance-wrecking, Allies, precision strikes, and challenges, flyers are just another new element to the game. You can adapt to the changes, just ask Ailaros and his retired PW Sergeants, or you can stagnate in 5th. If you steamroll someone using flyers, it's not your fault for cheese; it's their fault for using a 5th edition-ready list. Point them the direction of some Broadsides or an Aegis and shake his hand post-game.

Meanwhile I run aircav and am undefeated in 6th...maybe the above is just what I tell myself when players run sobbing, mumbling "cheese"...

No, certainly not. Some battle reports have already shown that too many flyers can cost you the game, since then the army will lack flesh - troops for holding objectives.

In the future, we will see more air-defense. Then flyers may become one-hit wonders.

Squadroned flyers also plumet out of the sky for Nids. I've wiped out an entire valk squadron in one turn. The Tk power Obscurum Mechanicum let's you hit every vehicle in a squadron with a haywire attack that glaces on a 2+. Just need a list with at least 6 psykers to get it 3-4 times.

Good thing most Nid lists have at least 6 as a minimum. Our max is something like 17 per FoC.

Eldar and wolves suck play against though. But they don't have flyers.

Stoffer wrote:I hate threads like these so much.

Flyers aren't broken. If you're killing your local competition it's because none of them are capable enough at list building. That's not saying they're not good, but if you're running a 6 flyer list, there are certainly ways of bringing them down.

This response is gonna be long. Build me a list that can beat three vendettas an three storm ravens with no flyers an a fortification.

valace2 wrote:

Stoffer wrote:I hate threads like these so much.

Flyers aren't broken. If you're killing your local competition it's because none of them are capable enough at list building. That's not saying they're not good, but if you're running a 6 flyer list, there are certainly ways of bringing them down.

This response is gonna be long. Build me a list that can beat three vendettas an three storm ravens with no flyers an a fortification.

IG list with 9 Hydras and a Fortification with a quadgun. Does this sound silly? So is your challenge.

valace2 wrote:

Stoffer wrote:I hate threads like these so much.

Flyers aren't broken. If you're killing your local competition it's because none of them are capable enough at list building. That's not saying they're not good, but if you're running a 6 flyer list, there are certainly ways of bringing them down.

This response is gonna be long. Build me a list that can beat three vendettas an three storm ravens with no flyers an a fortification.

How many points, and are fortifications allowed or not?
Anyway, as many Anni barges and tesla carbines that I can fit into a list.

azazel the cat wrote:All six is a lot of points to put into your fliers, which are not on the table during turn 1, and not too helpful in capture/control scenarios if there is any cover. Likewise, if they try to drop off troops, then they'll be blown up right away.
Fliers have not broken the game. Now maybe let's hopefully end this thread quickly before it becomes yet another sky-is-falling rant.

After 2 rounds of 9 TL lascannon shots, 3 TL multi melta shots an 9 shots from an assault cannon/ or plasma cannon or more TL lascannon shots how exactly are they supposed to kill all your flyers.

what else are you going to bring besides all those fliers. Thats the weak point of a list like that. a balanced list with enough weight of fire to throw your way will eventually roll those 6s and don't forget skyfire nexus as an objective...sucks to be bringing 6 fliers only to be one rounded by something holding an objective .

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

valace2 wrote:

Stoffer wrote:I hate threads like these so much.

Flyers aren't broken. If you're killing your local competition it's because none of them are capable enough at list building. That's not saying they're not good, but if you're running a 6 flyer list, there are certainly ways of bringing them down.

This response is gonna be long. Build me a list that can beat three vendettas an three storm ravens with no flyers an a fortification.

IG list with 9 Hydras and a Fortification with a quadgun. Does this sound silly? So is your challenge.

Should have been been more specific if you have the money to buy 9 hydras why in the hell would you not just have your own flyers, same!with spamming necrons.

Look at my op, I specifically mentioned the store where I game its not the world series of warhammer 40k, there are many like it out there. Going to wait until I am at a PC. I can't respond adequately on this damn phone.

valace2 wrote:

Stoffer wrote:I hate threads like these so much.

Flyers aren't broken. If you're killing your local competition it's because none of them are capable enough at list building. That's not saying they're not good, but if you're running a 6 flyer list, there are certainly ways of bringing them down.

This response is gonna be long. Build me a list that can beat three vendettas an three storm ravens with no flyers an a fortification.

Why would I not use flyers or fortifications?

As people have pointed out, 6 flyers is an awful list to actually win missions. Like with everyone else who think they "broke the game" I'd suggest you take your list to a GT and see how it does.


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valace2 wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

valace2 wrote:

Stoffer wrote:I hate threads like these so much.

Flyers aren't broken. If you're killing your local competition it's because none of them are capable enough at list building. That's not saying they're not good, but if you're running a 6 flyer list, there are certainly ways of bringing them down.

This response is gonna be long. Build me a list that can beat three vendettas an three storm ravens with no flyers an a fortification.

IG list with 9 Hydras and a Fortification with a quadgun. Does this sound silly? So is your challenge.

Should have been been more specific if you have the money to buy 9 hydras why in the hell would you not just have your own flyers, same!with spamming necrons.

Look at my op, I specifically mentioned the store where I game its not the world series of warhammer 40k, there are many like it out there. Going to wait until I am at a PC. I can't respond adequately on this damn phone.

If the issue is that the people you play with can't afford anti air models, isn't the issue more money than flyers being broken?!?!

6 vendettas at 2,000 points is 780 points. I'd like to know how people think deamons/nids/chaos can cope with that
Flyers are broken, but most people in friendly games won't use more than one or two. Don't play against dicks.

hotsauceman1 wrote:Fortifications, Nuff said.
Also don whine, we are a month in. No new codex releases. We will see more models with skyfire from now on.

Agreed, a couple quad guns would make quick work of those, same with a bunch of lootas and mass shooting

I'm having a tough time with flyers myself.
Played a game last night agaisnt my mate, Im using Nids, he was using Necrons.

Turn 2 sees 2 Night Sythes show up, zooming around the board.
I was pretty busy dealing with Telsa platforms and various other stuff, tried to shoot one and didnt scratch it.

Turn 4 they fly off the board
Turn 5 they zoom back onto the board and drop off troops with telport onto objectives.

I was pretty out of units at this point and nothing I could of really done leading up to the drop of troops on objectives.

Yes, I hate flyers.. a lot.

KingCracker wrote:

hotsauceman1 wrote:Fortifications, Nuff said.
Also don whine, we are a month in. No new codex releases. We will see more models with skyfire from now on.

Agreed, a couple quad guns would make quick work of those, same with a bunch of lootas and mass shooting

I love it when people say things like this.

1)you can have one quad gun at <2000 points, the overwealming majority of games

2)S7 vs AV12, even assuming they all hit, has a 50% of a penetrating hit, at AP4. So on average you'll get one or two hull points

3)One quad gun vs 3 AV12s. Go figure.