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I used a small vase as a drop pod. Got no LOS through it though so it backfired a ton, not doing that again!

Now I want to start a Marine army painted up like the UPS. "What can Brown do for the Emperor?"

Grey Templar wrote:Now I want to start a Marine army painted up like the UPS. "What can Brown do for the Emperor?"

UPS marines vs the FED EX xenos (stand in eldar fire prism)! showdown!

Meanwhile, the Postal Service is struggling with a codex full of over-priced postal stamps and premade boxes.

Grey Templar wrote:Meanwhile, the Postal Service is struggling with a codex full of over-priced postal stamps and premade boxes.

ROFL

Grey Templar wrote:Meanwhile, the Postal Service is struggling with a codex full of over-priced postal stamps and premade boxes.

You can't hurt them though, they've got mail armour.








That joke never gets old.

Grey Templar wrote:Ok, this hobby is an expensive one. Complaining that "I can't afford to buy stuff" is not a good way to deal with the situation. Save up your money.

Agreed, Ive built my army over time. Sure not all my vehicles are GW but they are at the very least as close to the size and WYSIWYG to the rules. Still, you dont have to dump enough money to buy a 4k point army in a month.

UltraTacSgt wrote:
40k can in no way be compared to a real sport because in real sports it is talent and athleticism that the individual brings to the game, and that talent and athleticism is what makes the difference. In 40k tactics are what makes the difference and tactics are what the individual brings to the table; problem is some tactics are pricey.

In many real sports at a very competitive gear makes a big difference. The winner in many sports can be determined by sub second differences and having the better low drag suit, or better shoes or bike, engine, tyres or whatever can be the difference between gold and silver. Sure you have to be up there and able to compete at that level to start with, but once there more money and more high tech gear can be pretty important.

Razgriz22 wrote:I have a tournament Tommorow. I am an eldar player and slightly worried about running into a stupid flyer list. But when I think about it.... My mobility will win me the fight. If I see they will be trying to have 3-6 flyers come in turn 2, I'll just turbo boost/ go all out with my entire army to their side of the board. Then why they come in they will basicly overshoot me and everything they shoot at anyway will have a 4+ cover save. Fortuned items will have a rerollable 4

They will have 1 shot at your tanks. You can then glide 12" to their rear arc and take shots with 7 STR 6 shots (assuming you have TL scatter lasers and an underslung cannon)

You should hit with 1.83 shots per turn, so you if you focus fire, you should be able to do some damage to his army.

Remember, play to the mission.

Kill the ground troops regardless of how many fliers they have objective wise so long as your smart the best anyone will get on you is a draw?

New edition comes out, fliers are awesome.. Everyone spends £££ padding their lists out with fliers.

1 year down the line.. new codexes come out, everyone has access to 2pt Flakk missles.. Everyone shelves their expensive flying targets, cause they are too easy to kill..

End result.. GW made a fortune selling useless models

Hetelic wrote:New edition comes out, fliers are awesome.. Everyone spends £££ padding their lists out with fliers.

1 year down the line.. new codexes come out, everyone has access to 2pt Flakk missles.. Everyone shelves their expensive flying targets, cause they are too easy to kill..

End result.. GW made a fortune selling useless models

Quoted for sad, but accurate, truth.

They can measure the count down to the next codex in number of flyer sales. Once they have sold enough out pops the codex and probably an FAQ giving everyone flak missiles, with missile launchers still not readily available in any GW set.

I fear the quoted sad truth above :(

I just want the new CSM codex to make Daemon Princes with wings FMC. Give my oblits skyfire (wishing my balls off right now) then I'll be okey dokey.

As far as I'm aware, they'll be getting rid of Daemon Princes altogether, as they want all daemons to be one codex and all marines in another. Instead it'll be more that if you want a daemon prince then just have allied attachments instead.

Bottom line of this thread is - "My army can cope with flyers, so the fact that yours can't means you are an idiot".

There are some armies for whom facing up against a storm raven means you can gaurentee that your enemy's elite melee unit is going to charge you wherever the hell it likes, with no uncertainty whatsoever. You could argue that they pay a premium for this but to a lot of players it's frustrating.

The less said about necron, however, the better.

My UPS box land raider laughs at your expensive modeling shopping spree

The introduction of availble flak missiles will only cause problems for people that play extremist armies. If you feel the need to spam insane amounts of flying to abuse it you have it coming. I personally won't really care about flak missiles when they arrive because they will be nothing different from people spamming anti-vehicle in 5th - It won't phase me I don't rely on fliers I just use a couple.

I feel sorry mostly for those that can't function with a balanced army and who's first impression with the introduction for fliers is to go out and by extreme quantities of them.

Yea flyers are just like anything else in this game. A balanced list will have some way of dealing with them. If someone wants to go extreme then learn its weaknesses and do the best you can. Same for any extreme in this game.

Fliers are a big advantage right now. So is skyfire. Allies and fortifications are the equalizer but there is no low-clost option to take it on.

I would agree though that take a chill pill. We are one month in and now only guard (hydras) defense lines (1 target) and another flyer can compete. I personnally cringe at the thought of a valkrie/vendetta flying list but it still has weaknesses. (For one auto loss if there is nothing on the board so no flyer-only list is viable.)

The only race I feel got piled on was the tyranids - no flyers of worth, no defense lines and no IG allies. The fact that they have a relatively fresh codex means no major fix is probably in the works.

DAaddict wrote:Fliers are a big advantage right now. So is skyfire. Allies and fortifications are the equalizer but there is no low-clost option to take it on.

I would agree though that take a chill pill. We are one month in and now only guard (hydras) defense lines (1 target) and another flyer can compete. I personnally cringe at the thought of a valkrie/vendetta flying list but it still has weaknesses. (For one auto loss if there is nothing on the board so no flyer-only list is viable.)

The only race I feel got piled on was the tyranids - no flyers of worth, no defense lines and no IG allies. The fact that they have a relatively fresh codex means no major fix is probably in the works.

They can take defense lines. There is no rule that says they can't.

To say "flyers have broken this game" is just plain silly.

There are options for dealing with flyers. For orks, Lootas are good at that. Everyone can also take quad gun aegis, everyone except tyranids can take friends with either flyers or some anti flyer thing. Many armies have TL weapons. They are great against flyers.

Stop crying and play some game. Flyers are usually easy to take down (for example, Vendetta has good armour, but no cover or invul like DE or Eldar Forgeworld flyers, which on the other hand have silly armor).

I played a game few days ago without any flyer or AA support on my side. 1000 points IG. Enemy has a flyer. It is not a problem to shot that thing down if you are not unlucky (like me). ACs with TL can do wonders (I have got AC HWT + BiD order). You can use rifledread (SM, GK), you can use you own flyers (IG, DE, Necrons, Eldar forgeworld), you can use TL plazma and rocket pod (Tau), you can use anything Guided (Eldar), you can use fire volleys (orks)....etc.

Wake up, people, THERE ARE PLENTY OF OPTIONS!

Hey guys! I am Mike, or lordybarbo. I'm new, so please be gentle.

I believe that flyers are not broken; they are the future of the game. Even in modern/post modern warfare, forces without airpower, or AAA, are punished for their lack of vision.

This may have already come up, but I need some help clarifying something.

I just played a tournament (18 person; 9 tables), and I was playing my third game for 1st place. I ended up playing another necron army. I had 6 night scythes with 10 warriors each, a basic lord, a monolith, three spyders, and a doomsday ark. His composition does not really matter, but the following issues do:

1) They said that I could not move off the table with my flyers. I explained that I could zoom 18 to 36", making me a zooming flyer, and that if I moved flat out in the shooting phase, I, as a zooming flyer, could voluntarily move off the field and go to ongoing reserves. They allowed me to do it, but they (my necron opponent and the tourney staff) said it was illegal.

2) My opponent said that he could take his necron chariot (command barge) and sweeping attack my flyers. I told him you can not assault a flyer. He said I am not assaulting it; just using a sweep attack to hit it with close combat attacks. SO, the tourney official allowed him to hit my flyer with close combat attacks from the chariot. He said he flew over my flyer. I did not agree, and said I will compromise. You can hit me on a 6 like everyone else. He said I hit you on a 4+. I just started picking up my models.

3) I am not sure I agree with this, but one other necron player there (who agreed with my interpretations above) said that jink should improve. I asked him why, and he said that if a skimmer moves flat out, the save should be 4+. Does the jink save for a flyer improve with movement?

4) This next point of contention is more of a pet peeve of politeness. As you can imagine, the game store was really full and space was a premium. I, as a seasoned player, knew I would be moving table to table, and had set up my boxes so I could move the men on top of them, making them easy to access and move. As you can imagine, the two boxes were covered with infantry and vehicles. This butthole knew they were on the ground; he needed to look at my side of the table, moved like a freak, kicked my box, then stomped on two of my guys. He only said he was sorry; he did not offer to fix them or pay for them. SO not only did he not know the rules and was butt hurt he could not deal with my flyers, he also smashed two of my men for insult to injury. It was tied 4-4 in the 4th game turn, and if I could have kept zooming and been patient I could have got a draw or narrow victory.

WOW, after that, what do you guys think about that? I need some help, please!

Lothar wrote:
Wake up, people, THERE ARE PLENTY OF OPTIONS!

Find me a way that mono-Tzeentch can deal with av12 flyers without fortifications.

Testify wrote:Bottom line of this thread is - "My army can cope with flyers, so the fact that yours can't means you are an idiot".

There are some armies for whom facing up against a storm raven means you can gaurentee that your enemy's elite melee unit is going to charge you wherever the hell it likes, with no uncertainty whatsoever. You could argue that they pay a premium for this but to a lot of players it's frustrating.

The less said about necron, however, the better.

Well, every army has their ups and downs, or should do, so yes, that is the bottom line, and I don't see anything wrong in that.

Assault armies can deny flyer the shooting, or reduce the amount of shooting, by moving into their uncomfortable zone.
Horde armies can even spread out to crash a flyer by denying them the compulsory 18" move, or push them to move beyond that.
Gunline armies will struggle, but IG can bring their own flyers or skyfire, and rumour has it that tau is looking to get some flyers soon(what other gunline armies are there?). And even if they can't move into enemy's zone to deny shooting or something. That's the price they paid, they can possibly wipe the enemy's ground units from afar, while the flyer is in reserve and win the game that way.

Zooming flyers suffer from arc-of-fire and lack of maneuverability, with the exception of necron flyers, most would either have to hover next turn so they could get another turn of shooting, turning them into an instant target(have you tried shooting down a skimmer? Or assaulting one? Apparently it's very much like every other vehicle!).

So expanded bottom line: Some armies can't handle flyers as good as the other, but flyers aren't as terrifying as people made them out to be.

lordybarbo wrote:

1) They said that I could not move off the table with my flyers. I explained that I could zoom 18 to 36", making me a zooming flyer, and that if I moved flat out in the shooting phase, I, as a zooming flyer, could voluntarily move off the field and go to ongoing reserves. They allowed me to do it, but they (my necron opponent and the tourney staff) said it was illegal.

Did those guys even read the BRB?

2) My opponent said that he could take his necron chariot (command barge) and sweeping attack my flyers. I told him you can not assault a flyer. He said I am not assaulting it; just using a sweep attack to hit it with close combat attacks. SO, the tourney official allowed him to hit my flyer with close combat attacks from the chariot. He said he flew over my flyer. I did not agree, and said I will compromise. You can hit me on a 6 like everyone else. He said I hit you on a 4+. I just started picking up my models.

Your opponent was fully correct and you behaved in a very poor manner. Instead of looking in the BRB / codex you just forfeit the game with the least amount of sportsmanship you could present. *slow clap*

3) I am not sure I agree with this, but one other necron player there (who agreed with my interpretations above) said that jink should improve. I asked him why, and he said that if a skimmer moves flat out, the save should be 4+. Does the jink save for a flyer improve with movement?

Correct. 5+ save if moved any distance, 4+ when having moved flat-out.

4) This next point of contention is more of a pet peeve of politeness. As you can imagine, the game store was really full and space was a premium. I, as a seasoned player, knew I would be moving table to table, and had set up my boxes so I could move the men on top of them, making them easy to access and move. As you can imagine, the two boxes were covered with infantry and vehicles. This butthole knew they were on the ground; he needed to look at my side of the table, moved like a freak, kicked my box, then stomped on two of my guys. He only said he was sorry; he did not offer to fix them or pay for them. SO not only did he not know the rules and was butt hurt he could not deal with my flyers, he also smashed two of my men for insult to injury. It was tied 4-4 in the 4th game turn, and if I could have kept zooming and been patient I could have got a draw or narrow victory.

I don't get your problem...first of all, we only know your version of the story. Maybe it was an accident. We don't know. Secondly: if you destroy sth. you have to pay for it. It's that simple. Ask him to get you new miniatures in a given period of time. If he refuses, sue him. It doesn't matter what someone breaks, but if someone destroys someone else's property, he has to pay up.

Furthermore, inform the guys at the store about his behavior in case they weren't aware of it.

To be fair, after reading your post, I don't think you are as innocent as you may think you are...your behavior wasn't correct either and overall, it's only 1 side of the coin we yet have.

WOW, after that, what do you guys think about that? I need some help, please!

1) Hmm...yes. I showed them in the BRB where it was at.

2) I will not say that I did not act as well as I should have, but after he smashed my men, I was already a little foul. PLUS, I am not sure I agree with the sweeping attacks rule. It needs to be FAQd against flyers. I just think its a common sense ruling that a chariot can't use an axe against a F16. Welcome to 40k right?

3) Ok, I see. It makes sense. I was not looking at it right...

4) It was an accident, but everyone in the store knew where my models were and had avoided them all day. Not sure how it could have been my fault. He did not mean to do it, but he should have been a person about it and offered restitution. I should have asked him to replace them, you are right. I am not going to sue him over 10 USD of necron warriors, and the store already knows. Sure, I was upset about my opponent smashing my guys, them trying to say I could not leave the field and go into ongoing reserves, and then they made a ruling that a flyer could be hit with a sweep attack...I was upset, but I am not sure how I was not innocent and not the wronged/damaged party...

Thanks for your help and swift reply!

Testify wrote:

Lothar wrote:
Wake up, people, THERE ARE PLENTY OF OPTIONS!

Find me a way that mono-Tzeentch can deal with av12 flyers without fortifications.

The same way that an all-Grot army deals with a Land Raider. They don't. You have options, you just choose to not use them.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
The same way that an all-Grot army deals with a Land Raider. They don't. You have options, you just choose to not use them.

They can deal with literally everything else - horde, AV14, transport spam, 'cron dickage. But not flyers. See my point?

An all-grot army isn't exactly feasible against non-Land Raiders, nor do Grots have HQ, Troops, Fast Attack, Heavy and 2 special charectors devoted to them.

Your codex has options which help against a newly-available type of unit. If, for theme purposes, you choose not to use those options, that's your choice.

Testify wrote:Bottom line of this thread is - "My army can cope with flyers, so the fact that yours can't means you are an idiot".

Bottom line of this quote is - Testify is being unnecessarily hostile and aggressive, which may not be a productive strategy if you wish to elicit helpful responses.