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One thing, I do think letting any child riding public transit is just weird. Those place are full of weird creepy people that worry me.
http://geekdad.com/2015/01/kids-play-arrested/?utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=facebook_page&utm_medium=GeekDad&utm_content=New%20Trend%3F%20Let%20Your%20Kids%20Play%20Alone,%20Get%20Arrested

We’ve talked about “the world’s worst mom,” Lenore Skenazy, on GeekDad before. She’s the mother who came under fire for allowing her son to ride the subway, by himself, in New York City. She fought back, pioneering the idea of free range kids. She published a book and has a new show that just came out this past week on the Discovery Life channel. But where Skenazy triumphed against those who called her a bad mom, others have been vanquished. More and more we hear about parents who give their children a little freedom, only to be reprimanded by the police or state agencies.



Consider a Mississippi mother who allowed her son to walk home from soccer practice, only to have police respond to several 911 calls about a child walking alone. Or in England, a dad who let his daughter walk the final 45 yards to a school bus stop, only to be threatened with the possibility of protective services. Recently, a South Carolina mom was arrested for letting her daughter play alone at the park and a Florida mom was charged with felony neglect for letting her son go to the park alone.

But the story that really caught my attention happened just outside Washington, DC, in Silver Spring, Maryland. A couple allowed their 10- and 6-year-old kids to walk home from the playground together. Concerned neighbors called the police and the kids were picked up and brought home in a police cruiser. The police demanded the dad retrieve his ID from upstairs and was told “shots would be fired” if he brought back anything but his ID, then went on to give a lecture about the dangers of the world. Next, Child Protective Services shows up with an emergency safety plan for his kids, that he was forced to agree to and sign or face worse circumstances, as CPS threatened to take his kids away. A couple days later a CPS social worker showed up at the kids’ school and interviewed them without notifying the parents and then showed up unannounced at their house. At this point, the parents are waiting to find out if they will be charged with parental neglect–or worse.

All for allowing an activity meant to give independence and build confidence, not hurt, endanger, or create a lifetime of fear.

Certainly, all of these cases are rooted in genuine (if not misplaced) concern for children’s well-being, but at what point did we stray so far from common sense? The story about the mother who watches her son walk to school, turn the corner, and is never seen again is a real one and, for a small number of families, a mortifying and life-changing event. But why do so many people feel this will happen to them? Internet posts and the 24-hour news cycle have created the illusion that pedophiles and kidnappers lurk just around every corner.

It’s natural to be a little nervous as a parent. You want to protect your child, so you drop them off at the school house doors, walk them in, and repeat the process in reverse in the afternoon. At home, they can play outside — but only in a fenced-in backyard and only when a parent is supervising! Is all of this realistic? No. The reality is that there is not a pervert who has been hiding just outside your fence, waiting for hours on the off chance you look away for 30 seconds so he can come in and snatch your kids. Is it possible? Yeah, I guess so. But is it probable? Absolutely not.

The free range kid movement says no to possibility and yes to probability. Just as it is important to stand up for free range kids and their parents, it’s equally important to say no when the police and social workers respond with such zeal. Allowing parents to be bullied for letting kids run around unsupervised (an activity that might have caused most of our parents to end up in jail when we were kids, running around without restriction) is unacceptable. Have things really changed that much?

Let’s take a moment to consider just a couple of statistics. The crime rate for serious crimes, the ones that really scare parents — kidnapping, rape, and murder, are at the lowest rate since 1963. That’s more than half a century ago. In fact, violent crime is half of what it was just 20 years ago. Yet, parents live in constant fear that something horrible is about to happen to their kids. It’s the boogeyman, writ very large.

In an age of Amber alerts and a constant culture of fear propaganda, helicopter parents cause us to imagine these stats are opposite. We’ve imagined and created dangers and fears where they simply don’t exist. Our kids suffer because of it. We should be parenting from a position of trust, not hard-wiring them for a life of fear.

That’s not to say that all kids in all areas should have free rein at all times. A large part of parenting is about recognizing risks and allowing your child’s participation based on your evaluations. Kids walking and playing alone shouldn’t be reason to call in the SWAT team. Relax. Trust your kids. Let them walk home alone.

You can blame the fearmongering media and their "Let's not shut up about child kidnappings!" phase they went through during the early-mid 2000s. This mortified a lot of parents and made them think that their precious dumpling is going to be kidnapped if they stray a meter from their gaze. They apply this attitude to other kids because apparently they know better than other parents. Honestly, I think it's a load of crap. If you want to worry yourself silly about low probability incidents happening why not worry about car accidents? I mean, a lot of people die from them and they probably kill more kids than child abductors do. I say we ban cars! For the children!

Except they won't. Being an overprotective parent only really inconveniences your child while worrying about more real dangers actually inconveniences yourself.

The problem I have with this article is that it is taking the most outstanding, i.e. newsworthy stories and conflating them to be what the culture is. Frankly, there are thousands of kids walking home alone every day with no problems. The issue is that news agencies love absurd stories, so the ones with the overblown response are the ones that get covered. Since those are the ones getting covered, that's what we are led to believe is the norm, when it more than likely is not the case.

Sadly we live in an age of 'Cotton Wool Kids'. Those children so sheltered from the outside world that they grow up with many psychological problems. There is not a paedophile behind every bush and not every adult is going to kidnap, rape and torture your child if they walk more than 200 yards alone. There are parents near my house who drive their children 300 fething yards to the front of the local primary school, then pick them up in the afternoon

I was trusted to walk the 2 miles to my secondary school and back again (whisper this) alone, or with my mates. It was a blast, and a major part of my childhood. I was given freedom, and I like to think that I'm a better, more well adjusted adult for that. It's natural to be protective of your kids, but please don't take it too far.

gak happens:

http://www.nbc-2.com/story/28128058/mom-watches-home-burn-where-girl-was-murdered#.VOTIcmK9KSM

I think there comes a point where parents need to be aware of things that can happen to their kids and act appropriatly.
That being said, the government doesn't need to get over the top involved, either.

That Silver spring story is in my area.

It is unsafe, and in MD you need to be 12 years or older to 'supervise' other children and you cannot be 'alone with no supervision' if you are under 8.

The issue is not snatch and grab, the issue is 'other' unsupervised kids. Are these free-range parent's kids probably well-behaved? Sure... Know what other kids are doing? the ones with actual negligent parents? They are walking the street, shoplifting, running drugs, committing crimes with pellet guns. And guess what? They are young and 'alone' which sends off spidey senses.

So how do you determine which kids are 'ok' to be out alone, and which ones are not? Well the issue is 'obviously the white ones are ok' which is the attitude of the entitled wealthy and racist in this part of MD. (who don't want their kids in that part of the county with those types of kids)

In this school district where they kids are, they have had 3 gun incidents alone this year with kids their ages having guns and a substitute teacher who was molesting kids at like 40 of the local schools. This area, where I live and the socio-economic and gang issues in this area, it is not appropriate for kids of those ages to be unsupervised, both for their safety and for our safety as there are actual kids committing real crimes in this area due to being unsupervised. We have no way to know which kids are little angels and which ones are poorly-raised monsters.

If she doesn't like it, then she can move out of the state. 8 and under needs an adult, 12 and under needs a teenager. Times changed, laws changed.

I think the important thing is to make your kid aware of the dangers of the world. Have a good sit down and explain to them why you shouldn't just trust any old person.

While I think letting your kid ride a subway or a bus alone is a very very bad idea, and one I think should probably be reported in certain areas like NY, letting your kid walk home alone or with friends is no big deal. And riding a bus or subway with friends(more than 1) is probably ok.

We certainly live in an age of overzealous CPS. They need to get smacked around the head with how aggressive they tend to act.

Are the subways so bad in New York that children can't use them? I see children going through the London tube regularly and travelling quite far.

 Grey Templar wrote:
While I think letting your kid ride a subway or a bus alone is a very very bad idea, and one I think should probably be reported in certain areas like NY, letting your kid walk home alone or with friends is no big deal. And riding a bus or subway with friends(more than 1) is probably ok.

We certainly live in an age of overzealous CPS. They need to get smacked around the head with how aggressive they tend to act.

Then again, I refer to my cousin who worked children's cases for 30 years and saw what can happen to them. His health was affected severely by the abuses he witnessed and the battles he waged in the courts to remove children from dangerous or abusive homes. He saw a lot of kids die or become messed up for life in situations where the state didn't act.

Typical nanny state bs. Oh no...don't blame criminals for committing crimes...it makes a lot more sense to blame the (potential) victims.

The cops in that story need to be arrested for terroristic threats and possibly brandishing, depending on what the laws are in Maryland.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Typical nanny state bs. Oh no...don't blame criminals for committing crimes...it makes a lot more sense to blame the (potential) victims.

The cops in that story need to be arrested for terroristic threats and possibly brandishing, depending on what the laws are in Maryland.

Then again, we are only getting one side of the story.

The "Mommy Wars" have finally reached these virtuous internet shores!?!

We are all DOOMED!

All I can say for those that are not behaved
Including the parents

Relapse wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
While I think letting your kid ride a subway or a bus alone is a very very bad idea, and one I think should probably be reported in certain areas like NY, letting your kid walk home alone or with friends is no big deal. And riding a bus or subway with friends(more than 1) is probably ok.

We certainly live in an age of overzealous CPS. They need to get smacked around the head with how aggressive they tend to act.

Then again, I refer to my cousin who worked children's cases for 30 years and saw what can happen to them. His health was affected severely by the abuses he witnessed and the battles he waged in the courts to remove children from dangerous or abusive homes. He saw a lot of kids die or become messed up for life in situations where the state didn't act.

I'd much prefer an agency to act somewhat zealously in their job when it comes to ensuring the safety and health of children than the alternative.

Except their acting over zealously and taking kids away that shouldn't be taken away causes just as much harm as if the situation had actually been abusive.

nkelsch wrote:
That Silver spring story is in my area.

It is unsafe, and in MD you need to be 12 years or older to 'supervise' other children and you cannot be 'alone with no supervision' if you are under 8.

The issue is not snatch and grab, the issue is 'other' unsupervised kids. Are these free-range parent's kids probably well-behaved? Sure... Know what other kids are doing? the ones with actual negligent parents? They are walking the street, shoplifting, running drugs, committing crimes with pellet guns. And guess what? They are young and 'alone' which sends off spidey senses.

So how do you determine which kids are 'ok' to be out alone, and which ones are not? Well the issue is 'obviously the white ones are ok' which is the attitude of the entitled wealthy and racist in this part of MD. (who don't want their kids in that part of the county with those types of kids)

In this school district where they kids are, they have had 3 gun incidents alone this year with kids their ages having guns and a substitute teacher who was molesting kids at like 40 of the local schools. This area, where I live and the socio-economic and gang issues in this area, it is not appropriate for kids of those ages to be unsupervised, both for their safety and for our safety as there are actual kids committing real crimes in this area due to being unsupervised. We have no way to know which kids are little angels and which ones are poorly-raised monsters.

If she doesn't like it, then she can move out of the state. 8 and under needs an adult, 12 and under needs a teenager. Times changed, laws changed.

Just to back you up, in my wife's home town, kids were expected to walk to school all by themselves starting in Kindergarten. We are talkiing 30 to 40 years ago, when children were raised 'right'. Just about every woman I know of in her generation, from her town, was sexually assaulted at some point before school or after school. Parents may not realize how much their neighborhoods have changed since they themselves were children, or alternatively, how much they haven't.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Except their acting over zealously and taking kids away that shouldn't be taken away causes just as much harm as if the situation had actually been abusive.

I have neither the experience or teaching to respond to that but I find it hard to accept there is no possible way a parent can attempt to regain custody of their children if they are separated by the state.

They can, but at a minimum it would be several days even in the case of a blatantly wrong removal. You have to get a judge involved. And young kids who are suddenly removed from their homes will suffer psychological trauma from the experience.

 Grey Templar wrote:
They can, but at a minimum it would be several days even in the case of a blatantly wrong removal. You have to get a judge involved. And young kids who are suddenly removed from their homes will suffer psychological trauma from the experience.

Well that would be a rather poor experience which is why such services should always proceed carefully with investigations and when they act it should be with careful consideration.
However, a child spending a few days away from home when they (Social Services) act too harshly or even incorrectly does not equate years and years of abuse when they do not act or cannot act.
I would prefer they do not act over zealously at all but like I said I much prefer that to the alternative. This is the lesser of two evils.
Not to say Social Services don't have their own issues with looking after kids.

All I have to say is that children don't get any smarter if you treat them like morons.

What is this american cultural thing that children are not allowed to use public transport alone?

 purplefood wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
They can, but at a minimum it would be several days even in the case of a blatantly wrong removal. You have to get a judge involved. And young kids who are suddenly removed from their homes will suffer psychological trauma from the experience.

Well that would be a rather poor experience which is why such services should always proceed carefully with investigations and when they act it should be with careful consideration.
However, a child spending a few days away from home when they (Social Services) act too harshly or even incorrectly does not equate years and years of abuse when they do not act or cannot act.
I would prefer they do not act over zealously at all but like I said I much prefer that to the alternative. This is the lesser of two evils.
Not to say Social Services don't have their own issues with looking after kids.

No, its not equivalent to years and years of abuse. But it can definitely lead to some psychological scarring. Now they're going to be afraid that people will come and take them away from home. Its a scary situation, and utterly inexcusable. Yet it happens disturbingly often, and the social workers who make these mistakes never ever get punished for what is in-fact kidnapping.

 Sienisoturi wrote:
What is this american cultural thing that children are not allowed to use public transport alone?

Does the train in the coal mine count? In the coalmine before eight, before its too late.

 Sienisoturi wrote:
What is this american cultural thing that children are not allowed to use public transport alone?

Its more certain areas are known to have rather seedy people ride the public transportation.

This this is why you don't do this in large cities.

http://www.city-data.com/

Oh hey there's 10,000 sex offenders in our city.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 purplefood wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
They can, but at a minimum it would be several days even in the case of a blatantly wrong removal. You have to get a judge involved. And young kids who are suddenly removed from their homes will suffer psychological trauma from the experience.

Well that would be a rather poor experience which is why such services should always proceed carefully with investigations and when they act it should be with careful consideration.
However, a child spending a few days away from home when they (Social Services) act too harshly or even incorrectly does not equate years and years of abuse when they do not act or cannot act.
I would prefer they do not act over zealously at all but like I said I much prefer that to the alternative. This is the lesser of two evils.
Not to say Social Services don't have their own issues with looking after kids.

No, its not equivalent to years and years of abuse. But it can definitely lead to some psychological scarring. Now they're going to be afraid that people will come and take them away from home. Its a scary situation, and utterly inexcusable. Yet it happens disturbingly often, and the social workers who make these mistakes never ever get punished for what is in-fact kidnapping.

Hence why I said they should proceed carefully and with consideration... careful consideration in fact!
When they mess up there should be an investigation, an examination regarding procedures and appropriate disciplinary action (Frankly fire the stupid arseholes who didn't think before they leapt) should be taken and procedure adjusted accordingly. This should happen after successful cases as well IMO.

you missed one of the more funnier ones, well it should be funny, but it's sad because it's true:

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/nanny-state-wild-dad-arrested-faces-prison-son-skipped-church-play/

some fun facts from the article:
there is roughly a 1 in a million chance of your child being abducted in a ‘stereotypical’ manner.

Your child is more likely to be killed in an equestrian accident. (Odds in one year for people who ride horses: 1 in 297,000.) Or better yet, pull him off the football team. (Yearly odds of dying for youth football players: 1 in 78,260.) And if you really want to protect them, sell your car. (Lifetime odds of dying as a passenger: 1 in 228. Odds of dying this year alone: 1 in 17,625.)

Or, to put another spin on it, your child is 700 times more likely to get into Harvard than to be the victim of such an abduction.

But being to protective can go way to far like alecia, A texan who can't prove she's a texan, oh no the inhumanity.
http://news.yahoo.com/alecia-pennington-cant-prove-shes-american-even-exists-150312826.html


Parenting should be left to the parents, they should know what their kids are capable of.

Jesus, that link is horrible.
Could you get more biased?

Consider a Mississippi mother who allowed her son to walk home from soccer practice, only to have police respond to several 911 calls about a child walking alone.

Is it that weird in the US? Children can't even walk alone on the streets anymore? Wow, the more I learn about the US on Dakka, the more that place freaks me out. It won't be long before I start getting nightmares about moving there...
Please, all Americans, come over to (mainland) Europe. We can teach you how to be normal people...
I used the public transport today. There were lots of kids of all ages using it to get to school. All of them were alone or with a few friends. That is normal.

And yes. This has gone way too far. This is sick.