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PhantomViper wrote:

Herzlos wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 Rayvon wrote:

Steve steveson wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Obviously now, in light of them re-opening in the same place, they had to pay their suppliers if they hoped to continue the business under a different name

Interestingly it seems to not have worked. It looks like suppliers are refusing to deal with EotS. They have no GW, very very limited FoW and PP. It looks very much like they can't get any stock. I suspect that even if they have paid there suppliers they have been cut off, not even put on CWO, or they have no cash to buy and stock.

EotS do stock GW actually, a friend of mine bought some from there at the weekend, they even show up on the GW site store finder.

He is talking about the online site, not the physical store.

From what I gather, EotS is not an online retailer, and gets a better deal from GW direct than it would as an online retailer (which has to use a distributor)*. I'm assuming another site (maunsfield?) will take over the online sales.

*According to Maelstrom staff in August. I wouldn't be surprised if GW aren't stocking them on as liberal credit terms now though.

There you go: http://www.eye-of-the-storm.co.uk/

For someone that isn't an online retailer, their site sure as Hades looks like one...

Like I said, my information is a few months and a disappearing company old.

As it stands now, it seems that the website and the physical store have different stock. The website has Warmachine, Hordes, FoW and Inifniti, whereas the physical shop also carries GW. The reason for that, based on my old information, is that GW provides a better discount for physical stores than online retailers, so for EotS to get that better deal they can't sell it online. I'm assuming that it's too lucrative a deal to give up on, so there will be a separate online entity at some point, with a separate account.

For the record; I was a big fan of Maelstrom, and defended them initially until the lack of communication and firesales happened (I did buy a lot from the firesales though), but the way they've dealt with things has been pretty poor and I'm unlikely to use any new online venture of theirs in future. I may, if I'm in the area, use the physical store and buy stuff I can take possession of immediately.

I know of several friends who all collected comics together. One of them bought a comic book store, and the others invested a few thousand each in it. Drinking and trips to see a long distance girlfriend added to some problems and the business went bankrupt. The guy running store went to his father, a lawyer. They declared bankruptcy.

Strangely, he actually tried to explain to his friends that HE didn't owe them money, the business did, and it was wiped clean, and that was that. He couldn't understand why they were angry with him.

While some people may claim EOTS is different from maelstrom, and legally it might be, it doesn't mean everyone will believe it.

A year or two after the bankruptcy, a couple of the 'old friends' beat the crap out of the guy that owed them money, and never talked to him again.

I'm curious to see who goes back to doing business with EOTS/Maelstrom.

The real differance (important one?) is that EotS has a differant registered address (in Leeds) to MG.

All of the similarities can be considered aesthetic similaries between a now defunct company and the new one that has taken over the patch.

Doesnt change he fact that the same schister is sitting behind both.

The only reason I can think of going to EotS is their gaming area but since TTN is now just down the road to me there is zero reason to bother with EotS.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

I think you should check my previous posts on the subject of Maelstroms shady practices and the delight that is Rob (the next Alan Sugar) Lane. I have posted fact and my assumptions. If that makes me a Maelstrom supporter in your eyes then so be it.

I said that you seemed to be supporting EotS, and your latest post sound like you are saying that since EotS is a different company than Maelstrom, then they should deserve a clean slate. Unless there was a /sarcasm sign somewhere that I missed...

It was the Alan Sugar thing......

I don't intended to spend with any of Rob lanes companies due to the clusterfeth that has seen numerous buyers out of pocket, even before the final final final final final (ad infinitum) sale at Maelstrom.

Sorry about misunderstanding your post then...

I cannot beleive there are people still trying to defend this guy anyway heres my recent post on warseer in response to somone trying to blame his creditors and everyone other than the owner
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?218037-Maelstrom-Games-overview&p=6502003&viewfull=1#post6502003

 filbert wrote:
Not sure how you can discern between the two and more to the point, I'm not sure wargamers should be making a distinction between the two especially when it comes to their hard-earned cash. Once bitten, twice shy and all that....

Barring the name change, the websites are identical.

Yes right, absolutely not! The website looks identical. The name means the same thing. It would be hilarious if it wasn't for the fact that people have lost money over this.

We owe it as a wargaming community, and for the people who have lost money out of this/suppliers who have been unpaid, to give a rather large 2-finger salute to that store and warn people wherever possible not to use this company.

Sadly a lot of more casual purchasers and web buyers might well be unaware of how they go on, but still there is nothing to stop us sticking to purchasing principles.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

The site is geared to support EOTS physical store with the convenience of a shopping cart. It isnt an online retailer in the strictest sense

Which was also the way in which the old Maelstrom site operated, so pray tell, what is the difference between this site and the old one?

I really fail to understand how some people seem to continue to defending a company that purposefully deceived and robbed fellow wargamers!

EOTS is not Maelstrom, they are not the same company. Look up the registration on companies house. EOTS are not selling GW product through their online shop, only through the physical store, if at all.

EOTS are not an "on-line retailer" they have a physical presence too. (pedantic ork face)

As for defending Maelstrom and the business superstar/messiah that is Rob Lane, who is doing that exactly?

You miss the point. EotS WAS the physical venue for Maelstrom Games. It was the "physical presence" for Maelstrom before the companies split.

Questions that I would really like answers to in amongst this issue.

1. Why did Maelstrom continue to take money for pre orders they knew they could not fulfill due to being in too much debt to suppliers?
2. Why did Maelstrom not refund pre-orders once it was clear that they were not going to get stock to fulfil them?
3. Why did Maelstrom spend 8 months blaming a non existent warehouse delays for issues?
4. Why were Maelstrom able to send desperate sale emails everyday for 3 months but were unable to respond to any customer queries regarding missing money or goods?
5. If as suggested by Maelstroms own books they had effectively had £500000 of free stock based on trade prices and had been taking pre-order funds from customers for goods they never delivered along with the funds from the recent sales but the company was broke where is the money?
6. As Maelstrom were struggling so badly how did they afford to start production of their own line of miniatures and game while also undertaking renovation and extension of their bricks and mortar store?
7. The timing of the spin off of Mercie Miniatures and Maelstrom Store erm I mean the Eye of the Storm or Maunsfield Gaming as a believe it is this week worked out well for them was that intentional?
8. What is it called when someone takes payment for goods they do not have and are unable to get but does not return the funds or allows a 3rd party such as Paypal to pick up the bill?

Also anyone who has lost money or goods if you follow the link and fill out the form the Citizens Advice Bureau will look at the complaint and if warranted pass it to Maelstroms local trading standards I have already done this they confirmed while they could not directly help they would pass it on.
https://ssl.datamotion.com/form.aspx?co=3438&frm=citacomplainform&to=flare.fromforms

This most likely would not get your money back but as the company as far as I can tell has not been officially wound up yet it may result in a full investigation I would suggest even non uk residents fill this in, also if you were one of the people who tried to request a refund but received no reply or refund then make sure you mention that as under uk law you legally have 14days from recept in which you can cancel an order nevermind before delivery.

The above post is awesome.

I wish I could exalt it several times...

 Compel wrote:
The above post is awesome.

I wish I could exalt it several times...

I exalted it for you.

Today, finally, I felt I was left with no choice but to contact my bank, who have now credited my account the GBP56 I'd paid. It's a shame that it's come to this. I used to just adore Maelstrom.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

The site is geared to support EOTS physical store with the convenience of a shopping cart. It isnt an online retailer in the strictest sense

Which was also the way in which the old Maelstrom site operated, so pray tell, what is the difference between this site and the old one?

I really fail to understand how some people seem to continue to defending a company that purposefully deceived and robbed fellow wargamers!

EOTS is not Maelstrom, they are not the same company. Look up the registration on companies house. EOTS are not selling GW product through their online shop, only through the physical store, if at all.

EOTS are not an "on-line retailer" they have a physical presence too. (pedantic ork face)

As for defending Maelstrom and the business superstar/messiah that is Rob Lane, who is doing that exactly?

EotS is owned and operated by the same people as Maelstrom, in the same building, with the same phone number. Yeah, they're a completely different company... Oh yeah, they are an online retailer because they sell something online. There are many online retailers that also have a brick and mortar presence. That does not mean that they are not an online retailer.

What people seem to be overlooking or unaware of is that by UK law, EOTS is a completely different entity to Maelstrom or any other company.

It is perfectly legal for an individual to hold directorships of multiple companies, and it's perfectly legal for separate companies to operate out of the same premises.

Sure, if there's been any irregularity in the interactions between those companies then liquidators are likely to take a long look at them, but if the rules have been adhered to then there's nothing to be done.

Their goodwill has all but disappeared and any supplier that extends them credit deserves anything they get, but one must not confuse what is morally or ethically wrong with that which is illegal. It's quite possible that MG have done nothing wrong in the eyes of the law and that for those who have just lost their money it's tough luck.

I, for one, won't ever order from them again, and as I suspect I'm in the majority here, that will be the biggest issue any new company faces and likely means a fairly bleak future for the group.

 azreal13 wrote:
What people seem to be overlooking or unaware of is that by UK law, EOTS is a completely different entity to Maelstrom or any other company.

That's been discussed at length. It won't change the way people who were burnt by them perceive them.

 mikhaila wrote:

I'm curious to see who goes back to doing business with EOTS/Maelstrom.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the suppliers do. Ones who didn't lose money to Maelstrom (if there are any?) They'd likely be on cash-up-front terms though, rather than 30, 60 or 90-day credit.

 azreal13 wrote:
What people seem to be overlooking or unaware of is that by UK law, EOTS is a completely different entity to Maelstrom or any other company.

Only if the assets were transferred at fair market value. EotS only took over former Maelstrom assets in the last month.

I wonder if the 80% off was to cover transferring of assets cheap. If they sold to the public at 80% off, would it be unreasonable to sell everything else to EotS at 80% of retail for everything that's left?

In a recession/depression market value is whatever you can capitalise to generate cash to cover debts.

I suspect that any stock transfer will have been done for peanuts and used to cover staff wages before they left to work for EotS.

 helium42 wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 Mr. Burning wrote:

The site is geared to support EOTS physical store with the convenience of a shopping cart. It isnt an online retailer in the strictest sense

Which was also the way in which the old Maelstrom site operated, so pray tell, what is the difference between this site and the old one?

I really fail to understand how some people seem to continue to defending a company that purposefully deceived and robbed fellow wargamers!

EOTS is not Maelstrom, they are not the same company. Look up the registration on companies house. EOTS are not selling GW product through their online shop, only through the physical store, if at all.

EOTS are not an "on-line retailer" they have a physical presence too. (pedantic ork face)

As for defending Maelstrom and the business superstar/messiah that is Rob Lane, who is doing that exactly?

EotS is owned and operated by the same people as Maelstrom, in the same building, with the same phone number. Yeah, they're a completely different company... Oh yeah, they are an online retailer because they sell something online. There are many online retailers that also have a brick and mortar presence. That does not mean that they are not an online retailer.

According to companies house they are a separate company, that is fact.

That they are owned by the same person is fact.

In business terms they are separate. I'm not going to get irate at this. I have seen companies fold and open up again with virtually the same details.This happens all the time.

What is a problem for me as a consumer is the way in which the whole affair was handled by the owners. Poor Customer service is a big turn off for me, no matter how big a discount is being offered.

I don't trust EOTS to be any different in that regard.

So they won't be getting any of my hard earned in the near future.









Automatically Appended Next Post:

 scipio.au wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:

I'm curious to see who goes back to doing business with EOTS/Maelstrom.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the suppliers do. Ones who didn't lose money to Maelstrom (if there are any?) They'd likely be on cash-up-front terms though, rather than 30, 60 or 90-day credit.

Most suppliers will probably come back. Doesn't matter what issues were had before, they will be in the back of a suppliers mind for sure, but they deal with the company, New company, new rules.

Restricted trading is a given but eventually, it will get back to a state of normality.

Anyone know how to contact Maelstrom now? They got my last order wrong, and now they're not answering the phone and their site is down. Can we go through EotS

 Million wrote:
Anyone know how to contact Maelstrom now? They got my last order wrong, and now they're not answering the phone and their site is down. Can we go through EotS

You could give EOTS a try but I suspect that they will play the whole separate company card, which they have a right to do.

But, like I said you never know unless you try.

Also try via http://maunsfeldgaming.wordpress.com/ with links to: http://www.maunsfeld-gaming.co.uk/

 Million wrote:
Anyone know how to contact Maelstrom now? They got my last order wrong, and now they're not answering the phone and their site is down. Can we go through EotS

Contact details for them are:
maelstromgames@googlemail.com
contact@maelstromgames.co.uk

But they have them set to an auto response which look exactly like this:

Hi

I'm very sorry for the delay you have are having with us, due to the discount voucher we are offering we are experiencing a large amount of orders and emails, we are working through this as quick as we can and will respond to every email we receive.

Thanks for your continued support

Cheers

Maelstrom Games


Even if they got part of your order correct you can still claim back the money from your Credit card company, bank (and i think Paypal) for the bits you are missing. Email them once or twice first though, there non responses will help your argument as they are essentially not responding,

Hopefully gamers and suppliers will remember his dishonesty in the future. Hopefully he will refund / provide the missing goods to all of his slighted former customers once he has things up and running at his new/old digs.

redknight27 wrote:
Hopefully he will refund / provide the missing goods to all of his slighted former customers once he has things up and running at his new/old digs.

It would take a Christmas miracle.

Maybe i could change my name to Jed, grow a mustache, and then i won't have to pay my overdraft...

I had 2 (identical) minis still unshipped (and the purportedly shipped stuff hasn't arrived) and today got notice that they've split the remaining order in half and shipped 1 of the 2 minis... Actually trying to fulfill orders or delaying tactic?

Oh man! Wish i'd found this thread earlier I've been growing more and more annoyed with maelstrom games about my unfulfilled order.

It's actually helped to know others have experienced the same pain.

I'm raising a dispute with Paypal, I doubt it'll do any good but it's better than nothing.

SeanDrake wrote:
Questions that I would really like answers to in amongst this issue.

1. Why did Maelstrom continue to take money for pre orders they knew they could not fulfill due to being in too much debt to suppliers?
2. Why did Maelstrom not refund pre-orders once it was clear that they were not going to get stock to fulfil them?
3. Why did Maelstrom spend 8 months blaming a non existent warehouse delays for issues?
4. Why were Maelstrom able to send desperate sale emails everyday for 3 months but were unable to respond to any customer queries regarding missing money or goods?
5. If as suggested by Maelstroms own books they had effectively had £500000 of free stock based on trade prices and had been taking pre-order funds from customers for goods they never delivered along with the funds from the recent sales but the company was broke where is the money?
6. As Maelstrom were struggling so badly how did they afford to start production of their own line of miniatures and game while also undertaking renovation and extension of their bricks and mortar store?
7. The timing of the spin off of Mercie Miniatures and Maelstrom Store erm I mean the Eye of the Storm or Maunsfield Gaming as a believe it is this week worked out well for them was that intentional?
8. What is it called when someone takes payment for goods they do not have and are unable to get but does not return the funds or allows a 3rd party such as Paypal to pick up the bill?

Also anyone who has lost money or goods if you follow the link and fill out the form the Citizens Advice Bureau will look at the complaint and if warranted pass it to Maelstroms local trading standards I have already done this they confirmed while they could not directly help they would pass it on.
https://ssl.datamotion.com/form.aspx?co=3438&frm=citacomplainform&to=flare.fromforms

This most likely would not get your money back but as the company as far as I can tell has not been officially wound up yet it may result in a full investigation I would suggest even non uk residents fill this in, also if you were one of the people who tried to request a refund but received no reply or refund then make sure you mention that as under uk law you legally have 14days from recept in which you can cancel an order nevermind before delivery.

I'm not sure if your post was meant as rhetorical or not, but I have a sneaking suspicion that most people already know the answers to the questions here, at least if they are being honest with themselves:

1. Because they were continuing to take in money to pay for stock and orders that they had no cash for. Essentially, they were using new orders to pay for existing orders they hadn't shipped. At that point, things were akin to a Ponzi scheme of some sort. They pretty much admitted in one of their sales emails that they needed new orders to pay for the older ones.
2. Because they didn't have the cash or credit to do so - what we have seen over the last few months has been the death throes of a business, despite claims to the contrary by others in this thread, this has been pretty much obvious to most people reading between the lines.
3. What else are they going to do? They still needed new orders to clear out as much of their stock as possible so they were hardly going to come out and admit they were going bust.
4. Because it take 5 mins to send a bulk mailer. Again, this is all about clearing out as much of their stock as possible, and making off with what ever they could liquidate from the business before it folded, and zero to do with customer satisfaction.
5. Most likely, as much money as possible has been creamed off or creatively shifted to other companies to prevent it being tied in with Maelstrom when it went bust.
6. I don't think they were struggling at that point; I feel that they have over-reached themselves and the creation of their own miniature line and associated costs etc has precipitated their cash flow problems.
7. Of course it was intentional. The sole aim of the last few months has been to generate and clear out as much cash and stock from the company as possible before the hammer falls; that way, it can't be tied up in the administrative/bankruptcy process.Spinning off the business is a way of doing this, and legal it would seem, much to people's chagrin. You see it quite often in the UK - private businesses fold all the time yet short of a court judgement, failed owners are free to start up new companies doing exactly the same thing all over again.
8. It's pretty much fraud although I suspect you would have a hard time defining it legally and prosecuting for it.

All of this horrible mess should serve as a salutatory lesson to all. Maelstrom have been in trouble for a while and you could tell by the increasing % of sales and deals being offered. It was clear to me, someone with zero business experience, that they were trying to clear their shelves off as much stock as possible before shutting down. Unfortunately, people's greed and naivety comes to the fore with cases like this. You should always, always take as many precautions to protect yourself when dealing with a web store (or when making any sort of transaction really).

I claimed my 40 euro at my local bank a week ago, send a form to Visa and today I got them back on my account!
Useless to say, Maelstrom and their clones are dead for me and my friends around the world!

 Million wrote:
Anyone know how to contact Maelstrom now? They got my last order wrong, and now they're not answering the phone and their site is down. Can we go through EotS

I sent an email to EoTS yesterday about an order I placed during the 70% off sale that was in the packing stage when the maelstrom site went offline. I got a reply this morning from Maelstrom indicating that my order had been split and part of it shipped. Unfortunately they didnt bother to tell me WHAT had shipped... Anyways, I'd email both EoTS and Maelstrom.

FWIW, my order was just Banebeast/Darklands stuff, so given that they supply it, they actually can get it to ship.

Gutted. MG have basically had my gamming budget now for the last few years and I've spent $1000's with them and never had a problem. I've not physically lost any money with them, but I'd built up around $200's worth of store credit with them which I've now lost if they don't re-open. Guess as I've not physically lost anything I shouldn't complain.

I've looked at the EOTS store and unless MS forefill all their orders with people (and this forum will tell me that), I won't be spending a penny with them. I've already sent an order for supplies through Wayland Games who I've not used before. I know if it was me and I'd lost a large order, regardless of the consequences I'd be driving down to Nottingham and 'taking' my order from the physical EOTS store.

It would be interesting to find out exactly what's caused MS demise. I think it would be a mix of a few things, GW's new trading policies will be a factor, but by how much I don't know.

Luckily, I've Sedition Wars on a KS pre order from Studio Mc Vey, followed by a KS Bombshell Babes, and a KS Relic knights arrived early next year. Due to GW pricing me out of their hobby, I spend as little as possible with them now and never direct through them.