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Made in us
Smokin' Skorcha Driver




Dallas, TX

matphat wrote:

I might go with a little more subtle change first. Before dumping a ton of points on a Biker Boss, just to address AV14, try massing a number of Rokkits and give them a go.
With the new hull point rules, Rokkits are better than ever.
My personal fav is Rokkit Buggies. Cheap, Fast, and Twin Linked.
Koptas and BWs are great platforms as well.


I tried this and I just couldn't put enough hull point damage out to kill it before it could drop off his cargo. Also i have to kill landraiders quickly before my opponents assault unit jumps out and shreds my front lines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jidmah wrote:

So what? Just leave the stupid box where it is and dodge it. If it's Godhammer (I believe that's what the regular one is called?), it will never kill enough orks to make it worth its points anyways. The redeemer can really hurt you if you aren't careful - however, if spread out correctly, not even those flamestorm cannons are that dangerous anymore. Keep in mind, that the sponsons my not templates covering their own hull. The most dangerous one is actually the crusader, as its weapons can kill droves of boyz and its increased transport size means more deadly cargo. Make sure to block it with your vehicles to force it to either ram or go around them. If you manage to kill everything but the landraider, you should win about any mission anyways. Land Raiders can't even contest your objectives anymore.

If you want to kill it however, possible options beside the warboss would be deff rollas, DCCW on kanz or deff dreads, tank bustaz or maybe blitza bommers.


The list I've been running has had so much dakka I need marines to be out in the fresh air so I can kill them. Problem is that we don't have reliable range options to deal with AV 14 (this makes tank bustaz, and the Blita Bommer not reliable). Also since all vehicles can move an additional 6" (flat out), and move 12" and still shoot everything, I've seen deffrolla's get kited (which would also make Kanz, and Dreadz to slow). When it comes to killing AV14, Orks just punch it. And I think trading a 140 point Warboss for a 220-260 point landraider is a good trade off. The Warboss would have an average 19" threat range ( might even be further if you Waaagh!), can have 6 attacks that hit on 3's, and start doing hull damage on 4's. My math may be wrong but in this edition that translates to a 66% chance of immobilizing it, and 43% chance of blowing it up.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/07/31 13:19:10


 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






mrfantastical wrote:The list I've been running has had so much dakka I need marines to be out in the fresh air so I can kill them. Problem is that we don't have reliable range options to deal with AV 14 (this makes tank bustaz, and the Blita Bommer not reliable). Also since all vehicles can move an additional 6" (flat out), and move 12" and still shoot everything, I've seen deffrolla's get kited (which would also make Kanz, and Dreadz to slow). When it comes to killing AV14, Orks just punch it. And I think trading a 140 point Warboss for a 220-260 point landraider is a good trade off. The Warboss would have an average 19" threat range ( might even be further if you Waaagh!), can have 6 attacks that hit on 3's, and start doing hull damage on 4's. My math may be wrong but in this edition that translates to a 66% chance of immobilizing it, and 43% chance of blowing it up.


Woah, hold it, you've got like dozen rules wrong there. Vehicles moving flat out may not shoot anything (except PotMS), non-fast vehicles moving 12" may only snap-fire (so no flamestorm cannons). In addition, the Waagh! only affects infantry, so the warboss on a bike is unaffected. You do not get to roll on the damage table for glances, so the chance to immobilize it is never higher than any other result. Also keep in mind that the PK is AP2 so the chance to explode it is higher than any other damage result. Marines inside a landraider can neither contest nor capture objectives and obviously not shoot either.
As for your math, each attack has a 22% chance to penetrate and a 33% chance to take a hull point off - the result is a 37% chance to blow the landraider up right away(assuming six attacks), as well as half that chance to immobilize it. The chance to cause it to lose four or more hull points at once is a little higher than 10%, not counting multiple immobilizes. So while the warboss is the best tool to handle the landraider, he is not guaranteed to do so at all. Tank bustaz are almost guaranteed to take off a hull point each round of shooting, and the landraider is pretty much dead if they ever catch it in combat - tank hammers, PK and tankbusta bombs will see to that. Bitza bommers are only usefull in multiples, as they are missing any useful AP. On the other hand, they will almost never miss a landraider. If the landraider is giving you as much trouble as you're claiming, you should look into that.

So I'm still saying, simply ignore the landraider. If it's trying to dodge your deff rolla (which can move 18/19" per turn, too), it's not going to do any useful shooting. If he's trying to unload marines onto objectives during his last turn. Simply grab two and hope for turn six. Bring your warboss along and hope to catch it, but don't suicide him. Unless you bring a second warboss he is going to be your Warlord and thus worth a VP. Keep him with the main bulk of your army jump the landraider if it gets too close. Keep in mind that 6th no longer limits his movement, so he can do that 19" charge right out of a unit of boyz (though you're better off assuming a 17" charge). It's not that hard to outplay land raiders (especially if you manage to kill the rest of the army), no need to kill them.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






Boulder, CO

Or short of ignoring it, take some Tau allies, take three broadsides with rail guns, and you are all set.
   
Made in gb
Waaagh! Warbiker





You can always bait the contents of the Land Raider too. Orks excel at sacrificial units.

A Land Raider and it's contents is a big point sink, unlike a wagon, they are too expensive to really work with multiple redundancy without crippling the rest of the army.

Focus on the rest of the opponent's army and force the contents of his shiny metal box to respond to what you're laying down rather than allow them to dictate your course of action.

Deffwing Nutta.

Codex: Bad Moons 
   
Made in us
Liche Priest Hierophant






An option with the Battlewagon is to take a Close Combat Wagon- as was said, you can move just as fast as the Land Raider (and have less fear from Dangerous Terrain, too!) can ignore most of the weapons it has on the BW's front armour, and can do melee damage. Plus, you can move faster. If you're chasing them, and they're moving fast enough that they can only use PotMS, they're down a lot of their strength and out of the way. Whereas, if you take a Battlewagon with Boarding Plank, Wrekkin' Ball, Grabbin' Klaw (which keeps it from runnin!) and Deffrolla, you're doing quite a bit of damage even if you can't shoot.

GENERATION 8: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.

If yer an Ork, why dont ya WAAAGH!!

M.A.V.- if you liked ChromeHounds, drop by the site and give it a go. Or check out my M.A.V. Oneshots videos on YouTube! 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Canada

Jidmah wrote: In addition, the Waagh! only affects infantry, so the warboss on a bike is unaffected.


Wait what? I don't see anything in the FAQ that says a Warboss or Nobz on bikes lose their Waaagh ability.

It was a moot point in 5th because bikes can't run, but as far as I can tell a Biker Boss and Biker Nobz can Waaagh and re-roll one or both charge dice.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/31 17:43:11


 
   
Made in us
Smokin' Skorcha Driver




Dallas, TX

Jidmah wrote:
mrfantastical wrote:The list I've been running has had so much dakka I need marines to be out in the fresh air so I can kill them. Problem is that we don't have reliable range options to deal with AV 14 (this makes tank bustaz, and the Blita Bommer not reliable). Also since all vehicles can move an additional 6" (flat out), and move 12" and still shoot everything, I've seen deffrolla's get kited (which would also make Kanz, and Dreadz to slow). When it comes to killing AV14, Orks just punch it. And I think trading a 140 point Warboss for a 220-260 point landraider is a good trade off. The Warboss would have an average 19" threat range ( might even be further if you Waaagh!), can have 6 attacks that hit on 3's, and start doing hull damage on 4's. My math may be wrong but in this edition that translates to a 66% chance of immobilizing it, and 43% chance of blowing it up.


Woah, hold it, you've got like dozen rules wrong there. Vehicles moving flat out may not shoot anything (except PotMS), non-fast vehicles moving 12" may only snap-fire (so no flamestorm cannons). In addition, the Waagh! only affects infantry, so the warboss on a bike is unaffected. You do not get to roll on the damage table for glances, so the chance to immobilize it is never higher than any other result. Also keep in mind that the PK is AP2 so the chance to explode it is higher than any other damage result. Marines inside a landraider can neither contest nor capture objectives and obviously not shoot either.
As for your math, each attack has a 22% chance to penetrate and a 33% chance to take a hull point off - the result is a 37% chance to blow the landraider up right away(assuming six attacks), as well as half that chance to immobilize it. The chance to cause it to lose four or more hull points at once is a little higher than 10%, not counting multiple immobilizes. So while the warboss is the best tool to handle the landraider, he is not guaranteed to do so at all. Tank bustaz are almost guaranteed to take off a hull point each round of shooting, and the landraider is pretty much dead if they ever catch it in combat - tank hammers, PK and tankbusta bombs will see to that. Bitza bommers are only usefull in multiples, as they are missing any useful AP. On the other hand, they will almost never miss a landraider. If the landraider is giving you as much trouble as you're claiming, you should look into that.

So I'm still saying, simply ignore the landraider. If it's trying to dodge your deff rolla (which can move 18/19" per turn, too), it's not going to do any useful shooting. If he's trying to unload marines onto objectives during his last turn. Simply grab two and hope for turn six. Bring your warboss along and hope to catch it, but don't suicide him. Unless you bring a second warboss he is going to be your Warlord and thus worth a VP. Keep him with the main bulk of your army jump the landraider if it gets too close. Keep in mind that 6th no longer limits his movement, so he can do that 19" charge right out of a unit of boyz (though you're better off assuming a 17" charge). It's not that hard to outplay land raiders (especially if you manage to kill the rest of the army), no need to kill them.


This is what I get for typing too fast and not proof reading. I didn't mean that, vehicles could move 12" , shoot, and then go flat out. What I meant was the ability to move 12" and shoot, OR the ability to go flat out has really hurt deffrollas. I've seen games where a LR moved 12" and then POTMS a multimelta into side armor to blow up a Battlewagon. It's just harder to corral vehicles now in order to get the deff rolls to hit. I'm still not a fan of Tank bustaz. Their range is too short, and they can still be kited. And technically the Warboss, and Nobz that have bikes still have Waaagh!, however you're right that it only affects infantry models so the Waaagh rule is useless on them.

I don't know about the meta in your area, but in the games I've played, 2 different opponents have screened their armies behind Landraiders. So it's not something you can ignore, it's something I have to deal with quick. And the suicide Warboss would be a second Warboss, that would stay with my Bikerz until its time to go kill a landraider.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/31 23:12:43


 
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

Ok a couple of questions about battlewagons that I can't quite figure out.

1, does red paintjob work for regular movement and the flat out? I.E. 13" movement phase, 7" flatout, or does it only affect the movement phase?

2. Can a battlewagon ram after moving flatout? I've been trying to find out but the rulebook is confusing me on it. I can't find anything that confirms or denies it. If you could, with RPJ, you could have a 20" ramming range, whcih would be amazing for orks

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in ca
Nasty Nob






MrMoustaffa wrote:Ok a couple of questions about battlewagons that I can't quite figure out.

2. Can a battlewagon ram after moving flatout? I've been trying to find out but the rulebook is confusing me on it. I can't find anything that confirms or denies it. If you could, with RPJ, you could have a 20" ramming range, whcih would be amazing for orks


No, page 85, bottom right under 'Tank shock restrictions'

ERJAK wrote:


The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.

 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





Oregon, USA

RPJ is only in the movement phase, if i remember the wording on the rule right (could be wrong, happy to be so )

The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts
GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
 
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight






Tokyo, Japan

thought you couldn't POTMS if you flat out now?

+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.


 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






The BloodAngel FAQ clarifies that PotMS still works while moving flat-out.

mrfantastical, tank bustaz cannot and could never be kited. It's kompletely up to them where they move, they are just restricted in picking their targets for shooting and assault.
As for the multi-melta to the side: It still has a 33.3% chance to miss, a 33.3% chance to get caught by the KFF and a 44.4% chance to do no more than take of a hull point, for a grand total of 24.7% to actually stop a battlewagon from driving straigth into it, assuming you did bring armor plates. And even if that happens, there should at least be one other battlewagon around to ram the landraider instead. Unless he is shooting from out of melta range, of course, in which case he is simply trying to get lucky.

More Dakka: The Waagh! rule itself has always given fleet to ork infantry models only, so no bikes, jump infantry or anything else.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight






Tokyo, Japan

Jidmah wrote:The BloodAngel FAQ clarifies that PotMS still works while moving flat-out.

mrfantastical, tank bustaz cannot and could never be kited. It's kompletely up to them where they move, they are just restricted in picking their targets for shooting and assault.
As for the multi-melta to the side: It still has a 33.3% chance to miss, a 33.3% chance to get caught by the KFF and a 44.4% chance to do no more than take of a hull point, for a grand total of 24.7% to actually stop a battlewagon from driving straigth into it, assuming you did bring armor plates. And even if that happens, there should at least be one other battlewagon around to ram the landraider instead. Unless he is shooting from out of melta range, of course, in which case he is simply trying to get lucky.

More Dakka: The Waagh! rule itself has always given fleet to ork infantry models only, so no bikes, jump infantry or anything else.


wow nice, thanks for that. So I guess just the land raider can't use POTMS but the storm raven can? man, double standard. Shows what I know from just reading GK codex FAQ. That thing has so many ommissions and doesn't come close to what the BA one does.

+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.


 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Rather than reading too much into that, I'd just assume that PotMS always allows you to shoot one weapon, even when turbo-boosting. When that particular question was written, Landraiders could not move Flat-Out yet.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/01 08:38:12


7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight






Tokyo, Japan

Jidmah wrote:Rather than reading too much into that, I'd just assume that PotMS always allows you to shoot one weapon, even when turbo-boosting. When that particular question was written, Landraiders could not move Flat-Out yet.


I just read the main rule book lines on PotMS and it seems to prohibit it, so only the BA storm ravens seem to have updated rules apparently. The GK one doesn't have that entry at all and the shadow skies entry is still stuck at only working if you flatout.

+ Thought of the day + Not even in death does duty end.


 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Meh, another testament to GW not caring about rules at all then.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in se
Sneaky Kommando




Gothenburgish

Hmm.. Bern thinking about my orks today, and I got a thought , that I wanted to share with you:

With the kff no longer giving the killakans, and more usefully, the unit behind them a 4+ coversave, wouldn't we be better off taking another big gun unit to toss behind our ADL, rather than buying killakans?
Whilst for example Lobbas can't throw out as many blastplates as the grotzooka, the increased range should compensate that... And i think that a lobba unit, with all the extra grots, behind the ADL's coversave, and the big guns toughness, is a whole lot more survivable, compared to the 3 AV10 walkers with a 5++.. the boys the kans used to cover for, will still have their 5++ from the kff...

I already have a ADL with a quad gun in my list, so I won't cosider the points for it into this, as it assumes that you have an ADL, and intend to field it anyways.

What's your thoughts on this?

 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Kanz are AV11, but otherwise pretty much agree with you.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Liche Priest Hierophant






Though what's the difference in 'Difficulty to Krump' between AV11 and T7?

Also, Tankbustas, even if they could be Kited before, now have Glory Hogs! reduced so it only specifies they need to attack vehicles when possible- if something's out of range, they can run as normal now.

GENERATION 8: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.

If yer an Ork, why dont ya WAAAGH!!

M.A.V.- if you liked ChromeHounds, drop by the site and give it a go. Or check out my M.A.V. Oneshots videos on YouTube! 
   
Made in se
Sneaky Kommando




Gothenburgish

Anvildude wrote:Though what's the difference in 'Difficulty to Krump' between AV11 and T7?


Just T7 and AV11? Not much.
With the big gunz behind an ADL and with maxed extra crew?
A Better coversave, the "15 unsaved wounds" required to knock them out...

//Calle

 
   
Made in us
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






Boulder, CO

Jag_Calle wrote:Hmm.. Bern thinking about my orks today, and I got a thought , that I wanted to share with you:

With the kff no longer giving the killakans, and more usefully, the unit behind them a 4+ coversave, wouldn't we be better off taking another big gun unit to toss behind our ADL, rather than buying killakans?
Whilst for example Lobbas can't throw out as many blastplates as the grotzooka, the increased range should compensate that... And i think that a lobba unit, with all the extra grots, behind the ADL's coversave, and the big guns toughness, is a whole lot more survivable, compared to the 3 AV10 walkers with a 5++.. the boys the kans used to cover for, will still have their 5++ from the kff...

I already have a ADL with a quad gun in my list, so I won't cosider the points for it into this, as it assumes that you have an ADL, and intend to field it anyways.

What's your thoughts on this?


Sadly, there isn't really any argument against your statement. I say "sadly" because I only got in 5 games with my fully painted Dredbash before 6th came out. Now I have 11 walkers that are more or less shelved for an entire edition. I say more or less because I'm still going to run them damnit. Even if I do lose every game a run them in. I'll do it with massive amount of style at least.
   
Made in se
Sneaky Kommando




Gothenburgish

I know the feeling Matphat.

I got 45 lovingly scratchbuilt kommandos, 6 koptas, 3 buggies, 1 dread all converted and in the process of getting painted.

I'm strugling to get the 45 kommandos to work as sluggaboys for my no nearly useless trukks, I've shelved 3 of the koptas (those with saw's), the buggies, snikrot, 3 kommandos from each unit and my lovely dread...

When we got this codex 2 editions ago, I had to shelf most of my deffskull list (lootas with SM guns, flashgits in eldar gear, tankbustas with tankparts as armour, bazookas.. Looted demolisher, tau piranha with rokkits and ork crew...
Ditched most of that infantry into breakfluid and re-modded into kommandos...

/Calle


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Though, I gotta say that 9 grotzookas would still scare the bejeesud out of me the turn they open up...

They might not be optimal, but a walker heavy list will still be tough to face... And alot depends on what else you bring, and your playstyle.

I've allways gone gorkamorka myself, and despise lootas (the way they are in this 'dex, grumble) and won't use 'em. Large shootaboy mob, 3 kans, a dread, 3 lobbas, 3 kannons as the anvill, 45 kommandos, 2 trukksquads, 3 buggies and 6 koptas as the hammer...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/01 16:22:52


 
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

Jag_Calle wrote:I know the feeling Matphat.

I got 45 lovingly scratchbuilt kommandos, 6 koptas, 3 buggies, 1 dread all converted and in the process of getting painted.

I'm strugling to get the 45 kommandos to work as sluggaboys for my no nearly useless trukks, I've shelved 3 of the koptas (those with saw's), the buggies, snikrot, 3 kommandos from each unit and my lovely dread...

When we got this codex 2 editions ago, I had to shelf most of my deffskull list (lootas with SM guns, flashgits in eldar gear, tankbustas with tankparts as armour, bazookas.. Looted demolisher, tau piranha with rokkits and ork crew...
Ditched most of that infantry into breakfluid and re-modded into kommandos...

/Calle


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Though, I gotta say that 9 grotzookas would still scare the bejeesud out of me the turn they open up...

They might not be optimal, but a walker heavy list will still be tough to face... And alot depends on what else you bring, and your playstyle.

I've allways gone gorkamorka myself, and despise lootas (the way they are in this 'dex, grumble) and won't use 'em. Large shootaboy mob, 3 kans, a dread, 3 lobbas, 3 kannons as the anvill, 45 kommandos, 2 trukksquads, 3 buggies and 6 koptas as the hammer...


Why do you dislike the lootas as they are now? They're pretty good. Were they changed from the last 'dex a great deal or something or do they feel cheap to you? (new ork player here)

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in se
Sneaky Kommando




Gothenburgish

I know they're dead good in this dex, and especially in this edition, but these new fanfled lootas aren't lootas to me...

They changed drasticly. In our old codex, you basicly choose a unit from a list, and got their weapons and upgrade weapons.

Then you could also loot 0-1 vehicles, and the only thing that was changed was that it got ork bs... And if it was less than 50pts, you could loot up to 3, with only spending one heavy slot...

//Calle

 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Jag_Calle wrote:Hmm.. Bern thinking about my orks today, and I got a thought , that I wanted to share with you:

With the kff no longer giving the killakans, and more usefully, the unit behind them a 4+ coversave, wouldn't we be better off taking another big gun unit to toss behind our ADL, rather than buying killakans?
Whilst for example Lobbas can't throw out as many blastplates as the grotzooka, the increased range should compensate that... And i think that a lobba unit, with all the extra grots, behind the ADL's coversave, and the big guns toughness, is a whole lot more survivable, compared to the 3 AV10 walkers with a 5++.. the boys the kans used to cover for, will still have their 5++ from the kff...

I already have a ADL with a quad gun in my list, so I won't cosider the points for it into this, as it assumes that you have an ADL, and intend to field it anyways.

What's your thoughts on this?


Not to mention the lobbas let you snipe characters and special weapons.

I think the KFF is nice but certainly isn't mandatory like it was before. Killa kanz are largely dead to me thanks to hull points, the fact that walkers in assault are a lot weaker, and the decreased effectiveness of the obscured status. I think putting an artillery unit behind the ADL is a great way to man the turret and also provide some excellent firepower. I've been looking at the Zzap guns because of the prevalence of 2+ armor that I expect to see since Terminators got a huge boost.
   
Made in us
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Anoka County, MN

Lobbas with 1 grot (with telescope) as a spotter with the rest of the guns and grots out of view seems like a pleasant notion. With the new rules, opponent's direct line-of-site fire can only kill the one visible model AND in the following Ork turn, a replacement spotter moving into position does not prevent the Lobbas from firing. I'll try it this week.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jag_Calle wrote:I know they're dead good in this dex, and especially in this edition, but these new fanfled lootas aren't lootas to me...

They changed drasticly. In our old codex, you basicly choose a unit from a list, and got their weapons and upgrade weapons.

Then you could also loot 0-1 vehicles, and the only thing that was changed was that it got ork bs... And if it was less than 50pts, you could loot up to 3, with only spending one heavy slot...

//Calle


Don't forget that Choppas used to limit armor saves to 4+ AND Burnas used to roll 2D6 for AP against vehicles in assault!!!

3-4th edition Orks used to be mainly Choppy, 5th edition gave us 50/50 Shooty/Choppy, and now in 6th, Orks have way more inclination to be 90% Shooty!!! What a weird world in which to live.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/01 19:35:06


Fighting crime in a future time! 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




There was also the Mob Up! rule which let you combine retreating boyz with units behind them to make larger and larger squads.

I'm not sold that Orks HAVE to be shooty. Slugga boyz seem to do really well in battlewagons, and that extra attack gives you the flexibility to do things like multi-charge weaker units.
   
Made in us
Purged Thrall






Beer4TheBeerGod wrote:There was also the Mob Up! rule which let you combine retreating boyz with units behind them to make larger and larger squads.

I'm not sold that Orks HAVE to be shooty. Slugga boyz seem to do really well in battlewagons, and that extra attack gives you the flexibility to do things like multi-charge weaker units.


Shooty is good, but I won't be running them due to the fact that I bought 120 AoBR boyz two or three months before 6th edition rumors came out. But, I feel like throwing a Lash prince and Chaos Space marines will be funny as allies. Lashing units into Slugga mobs will be hilarious. Or maybe having Shrike infiltrate some Hammernators up close to the enemies and DS some dreadnaughts in there. Plus Aegis defense lines will also help boost the survivabiltiy of orks in general. Besides the initiative change on charging didn't really hurt that much, as we were going last almost always.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/08/01 20:54:41


 
   
Made in se
Sneaky Kommando




Gothenburgish

Not trying to turn this thread into nostalgia week, but darn how I miss the mob-up rule... It was so full of character.

On a more current note, as I think we've hashed through most of our stuff now.
How have you guys been utilising the "you get a second FOC at 2k, if you have 1 HQ, 2 troop bit?
Whilst I haven't made use of it myself yet, I gotta say that I feel less chained by the FOC now, weirdboys, and the SAG mek got more viable now, as it's not that hard, nor pointswise expensive for us to get 4 Troops.
Oh, and having the possibility of getting 18 kans and 4 Dreads in a 2k list, should make dreadstomp lists relatively viable, that's roughly 1400 pts with the bigmekks. (dreads as troops should fill the troop criteria). Even stompier, 4 bigmekks, 10 dreads...

Allies; I've considered getting some IG allies, but the whole allies idea makes me feel a bit... Dirty... Dunno why, as it's easily fluffed for me as I play blood axe, but still...*shudders* each time I've toyed with the idea of bringing my old looted demolisher out of retirement, it just feels like a waste having to pay nearly 200pts of guatdsmen just to be able to pay the 200 for the demolisher, and I feel I can spend those 400 pts on something better. Though it would be fun to use snikrot as a count as marbo.. My CSM will probably start out as allies to my orks, moving on to using my orks as allies for them. All as I build the Csm up.

From a non fluff perspective, what do you guys feel are the niches for our most likely allies to fill for us, what stiff would you get?

Me?
IG, for their master of ordnance, marbo, and some real tanks
CSM, Defiler, some plaguemarines. Objective holders/takers, and the defiler for the reaper autocannon and the battlecannon..
DE, Archaon, Incubi. To kill enemy HQs. Though mainly cause I love the models.

//Calle

 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Canada

Once you get out of the real Ork list and into Allies it just doesn't feel right.

I'm totally down with buying some fortifications, and am looking forward to making the Orky version of the Aegis+Quad gun (Orkgis?) and the Bastion.

I played my first game a few weeks ago and found Nobz with a Warboss to by the big bullies of the game with LoS, Nob Bikers by extension are even better, just keep the WB up front and soak up EVERY shooting attack in the game until you zip into combat.

 
   
 
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