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GW has been sabotaging itself, that isn't new.

I understand the frusteration if you were loving the battle brothers situtation, but from a fluff perspective doesn't the Tyranid invasion force just eat the Genestealer cult along with everything else on the planet ?

 adamsouza wrote:
I understand the frusteration if you were loving the battle brothers situtation, but from a fluff perspective doesn't the Tyranid invasion force just eat the Genestealer cult along with everything else on the planet ?

The question is not whether they eat the Cult, but when. Everything ends up consumed, even the Tyranids that landed on the planet. It's just whether or not the Cult assists the Nids.

 adamsouza wrote:
I understand the frusteration if you were loving the battle brothers situtation, but from a fluff perspective doesn't the Tyranid invasion force just eat the Genestealer cult along with everything else on the planet ?

After a world is conquered, Tyranids will consume themselves and splinter fleets are known to attack each other to ascertain dominance, yet they are still considered Battle Brothers with themselves. The question is not whether the cult will be consumed, but whether the cult will do everything in its power to ensure that the hive fleet conquers the planet. The answer is that they will.

Compare that to Space Wolves interactions with various factions in the imperium (including Dark Angels, Grey Knights, and Sisters of Battle) to whom the Space Wolves are openly hostile towards, and yet are still Battle Brothers rather than Allies of Convenience.

The Swarmlord: (by jy2)

The Swarmlord is arguably the single most deadly close-combat unit in the Tyranid codex. However, not only is he a close-combat stud, but he is a force-multiplier unit (FMU) as well. He serves to make the Tyranid army better with his buffs. So what makes the Swarmlord stand out?

1. He buffs the Tyranid army with an 18" Synapse that could extend to 24" with the Dominion psychic power. That is more than any other unit in the codex.

2. He is the best psyker in the army currently. He makes for a good psychic battery and has a better chance to get certain psychic powers than any other unit in the codex.

3. His Alien Cunning allows the army to modify Reserve rolls. Swarmlord is worth considering if you are planning to run a null-deployment or reserve-heavy Tyranid army.

4. His Swarm Leader ability allows him to buff another Tyranid unit with either Furious Charge, Monster Hunter or Preferred Enemy.

5. He is very dangerous in Assault, with attacks that cause Instant Death. He is also more resilient in CC than any other Tyranid unit due mainly to 2 factors. First is that he is the only Tyranid unit with a 4++ Invulnerable save in CC. Second is his high Weapon Skill (WS9). That means WS4 MEQ's with power fists/thunderhammers/etc. are hitting him on 5's instead of 4's. It would be better for most non-elite Assault units to steer clear of the Swarmlord.


As good as the Swarmlord is in Assault, however, he does have certain limitations that prevent him from being an All-star in the army like the flyrant is. So what are Swarmlord's weaknesses?

1. He is slow. It is almost necessary to get him a delivery system like the Tyrannocyte drop pod if you really want to get him into assault.

2. Lack of any non-psychic shooting whatsoever means that he can only rely on Assault for offense. In this age of flyers and deathstars, you cannot always rely on Assault alone. Against certain armies, he is basically a cheerleader instead of the main event.

3. Resiliency. While Swarmlord is more resilient than a standard Tyrant, a Toughness 6 unit with 5 Wounds and only a 3+ save is actually not very resilient at all. He won't survive the shooting of the more shooty armies, especially if he has to huff it across the table to reach them. Giving him Tyrant Guard bodyguards or a Tyrannocyte can greatly increase his resiliency. However, they also significantly increase his cost as well.

4. No more Biomancy powers. Swarmlord used to be much feared back when he could take Biomancy psychic powers. Those powers could potentially offset his lack of resiliency or increase his combat potential. As good as the Tyranid powers are, however, they are used more to help the army rather than to help the psyker himself. What Swarmlord really needs are psychic powers that can be used to help himself.

5. Lack of grenades for an Assault unit. The lack of assault grenades means that he is vulnerable to certain assault units standing in terrain. His one advantage is his high Initiative, but if he is striking at the same time as Powerfists and Thunderhammers, then he really doesn't have that advantage. Worse yet, he might even die before he can even strike against certain units, especially units with Force weapons.


The Swarmlord is still a very dangerous unit and an excellent force-multiplier for the army. In that regards, he can still add value to the Tyranid army depending on the build. However, his weaknesses are harsh, especially in an edition that is more about shooting and mobility, both of which the Swarmlord lacks. It is especially because of those weaknesses why you won't see him in the most competitive Tyranid armies.


Grades: B (on foot), B+ (in Tyrannocyte spore)




Automatically Appended Next Post:

TheSnowmanInHell wrote:
Thought it was the cult FAQ not the nid FAQ.

Yes, you are correct. It is the Genestealer Cult draft FAQ, not the Tyranids one.

Great review Jy2!

Thanks!

 adamsouza wrote:
I understand the frusteration if you were loving the battle brothers situtation, but from a fluff perspective doesn't the Tyranid invasion force just eat the Genestealer cult along with everything else on the planet ?

Happy Endings? 'Nuff said....

So Saturday I'm playing in my first tournament (And indeed, my second game since November) with a list Ive never tried, and only using it because Im bored. Im totally out of touch with Warhammer so Ive got no clue. I DO know this would have been suboptimal 7 months ago, so I doubt the situation has gotten better for bugs.

4 Flyrants, malanthrope, neural node with mucolids. So Flyrants do what they always do, and the neural node moves up (probably always centered) hugging cover, relying on 2+ cover saves and 3+ invuls (5+ for the maleceptor since we cant have nice things) to be a somewhat dense target to handle in addition to the flying Tyrants.

Using the Neurothropes (Who dont have to roll to hit any more) to fuel warp charge batteries, Im not sure if I should default to using 4 or 5 dice to manifest Warp Lance when I am rerolling 1's, any thoughts on that?

 jy2 wrote:
The Swarmlord: (by jy2)
3. His Alien Cunning allows the army to modify Reserve rolls. Swarmlord is worth considering if you are planning to run a null-deployment or reserve-heavy Tyranid army.

Tyranids can have a null deployment list without auto lose? What am I missing. Sorry if its been covered but this thread is an ungodly size for a new comer to it.

Slagmar wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
The Swarmlord: (by jy2)
3. His Alien Cunning allows the army to modify Reserve rolls. Swarmlord is worth considering if you are planning to run a null-deployment or reserve-heavy Tyranid army.

Tyranids can have a null deployment list without auto lose? What am I missing. Sorry if its been covered but this thread is an ungodly size for a new comer to it.

No. There is no Tyranid reserve unit that can come in turn 1.

What he is referring to is a reserve-heavy Tyranid force.

As someone mentioned on the FB page:

From the Chaos Renegade rules:

Allies with other factions in exactly the same way as the CSM faction, as described in W40k: The Rules.

Meaning BB



From the WD GSC rules:

Ally in exactly the same way as Tyranids, as described in the allies section of WH40k: The Rules

Meaning AoC

The FAQ regarding how the Genestealer cult allies might be a mistake, baring a full codex with detailed ally information. Taken to its logical conclusion, if an army that shares its ally matrix with another faction is only a convenient ally with the faction it shares its place on the matrix with, by extension all Imperial armies would be allies of convenience with each other as they all share the same spot on the ally matrix while each is also its own faction. Similarly, supplement armies that state they follow the same ally rules as their parent codex would only be allies of convenience with their parent codex.

 adamsouza wrote:
I understand the frusteration if you were loving the battle brothers situtation, but from a fluff perspective doesn't the Tyranid invasion force just eat the Genestealer cult along with everything else on the planet ?

The Warzone Valdore book has a section in the back of the book detailing the phases of Tyranid invasion and includes the role of the Hybrid forces.

Excerpts from the relevant sections.

Discovery:
As the infiltrator beasts prosper upon the target world, so their numbers multiply. Genestealers impregnate their prey-creatures with alien taint on a genetic level, forcing their victims to spawn horrific offspring that are nonetheless nurtured as beloved children away from the sight of mortal authorities. As such hidden communities flourish, so does their collective psychic spoor grow stronger, presumably attracting the notice of the ever-hungry Hive Mind as it draws close. A flourishing hybrid community of this kind is a sure indication of rich feeding grounds. In some cases, those in the thrall of the Genestealers may seek to infiltrate the world's ruling classes, aiming to prepare it for the hive fleet's arrival by weakening defenses or moral resolve.

Attack:
[...] It is during these primary invasions that any infested local communities make their move, acting entirely under the control of the Hive Mind and seeking to disrupt what little resistance the defenders are able to mount from within.

Consumption:
As the Tyranid digestion pools swell, the hive ships cluster closer and closer to the planet's surface.[...] At this point, any infested natives the vanguard organisms have cultivated upon the world add their biomass to the harvest. The minds of these creatures are, by this point, entirely subsumed to the Hive Mind's gestalt will, and they march blank-faced into the depths of the digestion pools, along with all the other Tyranids to be rendered down into nutrients.

Emphasis added by me. I suspect the reason for the removal of battle brother status (assuming it wasn't a mistake) will probably have to do with the final book rather than the current formation. Alternatively, maybe the rumored 8th edition changes how Allies of Convenience work so the ally level feels more appropriate. Just making it so allies of Convenience were viewed as friendly models would be enough, hard to infiltrate both the cult and Genestealers from the Tyranid codex when they can't be within 18'' of each other...

 Frozocrone wrote:
On a Tyranid note, I am very happy about not buying this even when they pushed hard for it when I was in store.

The Overkill game by itself is actually quite fun and surprisingly strategic, I'd say it is worth it even without the rules for 40k. I've been bringing it to our local game shop to play and we've almost finished the campaign (currently on mission 8 out of 9). It is very easy to learn the basics but it has quite a bit of depth in how you deploy your forces and when to use certain "gambits" over deploying the units. The Deathwatch in turn have to choose their approach carefully as they usually have an objective that needs to be fulfilled and they have to insure they are able to attack each turn or they will find themselves buried under a swarm of angry cultists. It is also hard to make one squad to rule them all, as the Deathwatch player can't bring the same models in the consecutive round, so if they over-specialize for one mission it will generally hurt them in the next one.

I recently scratch built a few Tyrannocytes and Sporocysts, and wanted an army list that would let me take them out for a test spin.



Tyranid (1000pts)- Tyranids: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment)

HQ
Hive Tyrant 1 - Electroshock Grubs, Powers of the Hive Mind, Psyker (Mastery Level 2), Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms x2, Wings
Hive Tyrant 2 - Electroshock Grubs, Powers of the Hive Mind, Psyker (Mastery Level 2), Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms x2, Wings
Troops
Ripper Swarm Brood 1- 3x Ripper Swarm, Deep Strike
Ripper Swarm Brood 2- 3x Ripper Swarm, Deep Strike
Ripper Swarm Brood 3- 3x Ripper Swarm, Deep Strike
Ripper Swarm Brood 4- 3x Ripper Swarm, Deep Strike
Ripper Swarm Brood 5- 3x Ripper Swarm, Deep Strike
Ripper Swarm Brood 6- 3x Ripper Swarm, Deep Strike
Heavy Support
Sporocyst 1- 5x Deathspitters
Sporocyst 2- 5x Deathspitters
Tyrannocyte - 5x Venom Cannon

Flyrants do their thing.
Rippers grab or contest objectives.
Tyrannocyte and Sporocyst scream "SHOOT AT ME" as loud as possible while pooping out as many Mucolids and Spore Mines as possible.

What do you think ?

Are you not going to drop in anything along with your Tyrannocyte? A Carnifex with 2x Brainleech Devourers would be proper scary. Your Tyrannocyte doesn't take up a FOC slot if you need the extra Heavy Support.

I just ran out of points at the 1000 point mark. Plus I don't actually have a Carnifex with twin linke devourers. My collection of models is mostly 3rd/4th edition.

Picked up 2 of the new Carnifex models, but they were equipped with Venom Cannons. I plan on converting them to Twin Linked Devourers, just been fiddlling with the Trannocytes/Sporocycts instead.

 Strat_N8 wrote:
The FAQ regarding how the Genestealer cult allies might be a mistake, baring a full codex with detailed ally information. Taken to its logical conclusion, if an army that shares its ally matrix with another faction is only a convenient ally with the faction it shares its place on the matrix with, by extension all Imperial armies would be allies of convenience with each other as they all share the same spot on the ally matrix while each is also its own faction. Similarly, supplement armies that state they follow the same ally rules as their parent codex would only be allies of convenience with their parent codex.



Emphasis added by me. I suspect the reason for the removal of battle brother status (assuming it wasn't a mistake) will probably have to do with the final book rather than the current formation. Alternatively, maybe the rumored 8th edition changes how Allies of Convenience work so the ally level feels more appropriate. Just making it so allies of Convenience were viewed as friendly models would be enough, hard to infiltrate both the cult and Genestealers from the Tyranid codex when they can't be within 18'' of each other...

These are some really good points that has me hopeful that maybe, just maybe, we will get our BB back and I can have an ally force with my nids that lets me blend more genestealers into things.

Just played a game this past weekend, running the following:

HQ Hive tyrant, wings, x2 TL devourers, electroshock grubs
HQ Hive tyrant, wings, x2 TL devourers, electroshock grubs
HQ Hive tyrant, wings, x2 TL devourers, electroshock grubs

Troops mucolid spore
Troops mucolid spore
Troops mucolid spore

Elite Malanthrope

Sky Tyrant
HQ Hive Tyrant, wings, reaper of obliterax, old adversary, scything talons, adrenal glands
Fast Attack x10 gargoyles
Fast Attack x10 gargoyles

Ghosar Quintus Broodkin
HQ Patriarch Ghosar
HQ Magus Orthan Trysst
HQ Primus Vorgan Trysst
Troops The Favored Disciples
Troops The Faithful Throng
Elites The Purestrain Princelings
Elites The Brothers Aberrant

TOTAL: 1845

Game was against a standard eldar list, scat bikes, swordknight, aspect spiders, etc. Only thing out of the ordinary was a unit of 15 guardians with a farseer.

Game went incredibly well, though I cannot be sure if it was merely because I went first or not. He won the roll for first turn, took first, deployed fairly standardly (ITC mission 6, crusade, so DoW deployment), I deployed my flyrants on the best piece of terrain close to his line, giving all my flyrants and my skyrant shrouded. Here is where I did something different. As I was deploying second, and he had no infiltrators, i was able to throw out the entire GSC in one go. I decided instead of throwing big ol Ghosar into the fray, to instead have him dominate a flank as to maintain fearless and adamantium will for the cult. I stuck the throng on a back objective, and tried to play the rest as aggressively as possible as other than the WK, he had no real answer for CC.

And then I SEIZED!!! this was huge for the obvious reasons, but also because this allowed ghosar to hit one of the scat squads in CC before they could start harassing my backline. Kind of gone off the rails already but Ill give a quick sumary of thoughts per unit.

-Skyrant: killed the wraithknight, and spider unit man can he really do a ton of damage in CC, nice to play a melee-rant again.

-flyrant:, you know the jam, they are awesome.

-ghosar: Is a monster unit in CC, decent psyker, great for harassing flanks. I do think I made the right choice keeping him on a flank, as his buffs to the rest of the cult were too important for objectives and what not

-magus: Didn't do a whole lot this game, I wasn't entirely sure where to place him, as I wanted him close to the enemy for shriek, but wanted him protected as he is so flimsy.

-primus: absolute beatstick in CC, but not resilient enough to take hits for very long. Depending on powers (such as invis) I might stick both him and the magus with the favored disciples to give them more protection, and to further protect the magus but keep him on the frontline. I think, in the future, I would stick him with the aberrant as a small nasty little CC unit, and keep the magus with the favored.

-favored: unfortunately, they got blasted off the board before making combat...sad day

-throng: great back-midfield objective holders, with ghosar alive, 16 shrouded/ stealth fearless bodies are very hard to dislodge.

-aberrant: MAN can these guys take punishment, and dish it out too. all the low ap really makes them kick the butts of most things in CC

-princelings, more just extra wounds for ghosar, but a good number of extra attacks.

Overall they are very fun, and I cant emphasize enough that if they get first turn, they can cause SERIOUS damage. I have also found them to be a great accent to flyrants, as the threat saturation of the GSC takes a lot of the heat off the flyrants.

 gameandwatch wrote:
Just played a gNice ame this past weekend, running the following:

Nice write up, thanks! I get more and more inclined to buy the Ghosar formation as a ground compliment to Flyrants.

I assume you didn't use the horrible FAQ draft for your game?

Speak of formation.. Have anyone done a formations review?

 N.I.B. wrote:

 gameandwatch wrote:
Just played a gNice ame this past weekend, running the following:

Nice write up, thanks! I get more and more inclined to buy the Ghosar formation as a ground compliment to Flyrants.

I assume you didn't use the horrible FAQ draft for your game?

Ok so, we didn't, we went off the White Dwarf bit, but ironically, it actually rarely came up... May have just been matter of circumstance, but that doesn't mean the FAQ ruling isn't dumb and un-fluffy

Solidcrash wrote:
Speak of formation.. Have anyone done a formations review?

Not yet. A few of our more competitive folks moved on to other armies/forums and such, so reviews slowed down a lot.

I think I was pegged for a Meiotic Spore review that I still haven't gotten around to writing, but I haven't played in a long while either. I'm hoping to get back into the swing of things soon.

Ah cool. I haven't try out any formation other than death storm formations.. Hope someone can review in this topic

I am try out my new list and get it warm up for local tournament in October.. Rather than filling up in this topic, use this link to reply about my list.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/692664.page#8690846

Solidcrash wrote:
Speak of formation.. Have anyone done a formations review?

This is the only one that I know of reviewing all of them
1d4chan Tyranids 7E Dataslate Formations

 adamsouza wrote:

Solidcrash wrote:
Speak of formation.. Have anyone done a formations review?

This is the only one that I know of reviewing all of them
1d4chan Tyranids 7E Dataslate Formations

Cheer thanks! It's worth to read. Heh
Hypertoxic node- is it good idea to add wing on tyrant?

In general the most competitive formations we have are probably skyblight, skytyrant, sporefield, and living artillery. A few are passable - endless swarm, manufactorum genes, deathleaper's assassin brood, children of cryptus spring to mind. The rest are either not very good or require sinking too many points into to be worth it. Hypertoxic looks like it could be reasonable (ie second category) actually, I've just never seen or heard of it in use.

My experience with the Neuralnode last weekend was...extremely positive. Spiritleech is awesome even with average rolls. The formation packs quite a punch and the resiliency of the 3+invul and cover saves from an accompanying malanthrope gives it some hope.

I think that 4 flyrants and the node are what Ill be running competitively for a while, its a lot of fun.

Yeah I can see it's so popular. Skyblight and skytyrant, I don't have small flying creature and I don't like the old model of living artillery...

Nice to hear Neuralnode is now solid. Pretty much shelved my Nids as I can't bring myself to field so many Flyrants.