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As much as I like some of the introduced features, someone needed to tell the writer to go back and write it again with half the word count.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:


No offense, but I highly doubt you know people playing 5th Edition.

"Guys, guys, we've got to discuss this in a CIVIL manner!"
"No offense but you're a liar."

 Da Boss wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:


No offense, but I highly doubt you know people playing 5th Edition.

"Guys, guys, we've got to discuss this in a CIVIL manner!"
"No offense but you're a liar."

What an interesting way to not convey the scenario correctly. That was two different people I was talking to. And on top of that, you added your own little spin. Calling into question an exaggeration isn't the same as saying someone is a liar. Come on, bud, do better than this sort of post.

How exactly is it different? Perhaps you should be doing better yourself.

Guys, beers at the bar and on the house. Lets all move on...

I'm interested to see what they have for Liber Questoris, and I hope its a reasonable price considering the split from Liber Mechanicum. Ideally I like the 2-to-1 ratio for Armigers and Knights, but I can understand those who are interested in larger games that would prefer the game without them. I have 4 Armigers and whether they grow to 6 and a Knight, it depends on whether they offer the Dominus in 30K. I'm confident that will happen in 3rd edition as 2nd was rearranging the kits so that 30K has it's own packaged alternative, and they probably couldn't quite stretch that to the Dominus. It would also be a low effort to make it appear they've introduced a new Knight to purchase alongside the Liber Questoris book.

If not I might consider a box of 20 marines and the melee weapons kit, and host games of KT:AOD. I don't have much interest in marines these days but in skirmish they can be a welcome diversion. I have a Tome Keeper's Kill Team which was an enjoyable project and it's appealing to move on to different things. With such a box there's two team's worth for Legion-vs-Legion action.

Mechanicum book has my interest. In 2nd Ed, they’re a wee bit wonky.

Thallaxi are incredible, point for point probably the most efficient Troops unit. But the Ursarax, their CC variant, less so.

Aye, time to chill out, remember to be polite when discussing our little toys.

Vehicle rules

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/bz3yebcn/rules-in-the-age-of-darkness-how-vehicles-work/

So, Dreads aren’t vehicles, just Really big Infantry.

Melta is gonna be nasty now, as it’s a reliable way to pop tanks in a single shot. Whereas even Lascannons (based on stationary infantry) are only doing D2 per penetrating hit.

Heck, I expect Combi-meltas to be a common weapon for unit leaders where available.

May have read it wrong, but it seems a bit disjointed that penetrating hits don't also cause a status effect at the same time. I'd be guessing here, but getting autocannoned to death seems to cause a more realistic (!) degredation of performance instead of just being lascannoned to pieces

Unlike in previous editions however, Glancing Hits don’t automatically strike off a Hull Point.

If a Model that already has a specific Status would have that Status applied to them again by a result from the Vehicle Damage Table, then they instead lose a singles Hull Point

Penetrating Hits simply deal the weapon’s Damage value straight to the Hull Points, and a vehicle is destroyed when this total reaches zero.

So, while they can get random status effects, it's not quite as easy getting your rhino glanced to death. It might get pinned or whatever, but 3 glances from a heavy weapon squad is no longer going to kill it. I also didn't see Weapon Destroyed on that glancing hit list. So you'll have a temporary status effect when you get glanced, but won't permanently lose a weapon.

And penetrating hits just strip hull points, but no longer stun or immobilize the target.

Titans, on the other hand, operate very differently, and there is an entire chapter of the Liber Questoris book dedicated to them.

Titans look resilient as hell. Hull points per area and apparently not auto-dead when that area hits zero. Need to see the rules on them, but an entire chapter? Space Jesus help us...

Oh, man. I can't wait to bring multiple vehicles, characters and titan in a single game.
Tracking each individual mini combat, having like 15 spare tokens for status effects and then a separate spreadsheet for titan limb hps
What's better than spending 6-8 hours on a single 3k game anyway.

 zedmeister wrote:
May have read it wrong, but it seems a bit disjointed that penetrating hits don't also cause a status effect at the same time. I'd be guessing here, but getting autocannoned to death seems to cause a more realistic (!) degredation of performance instead of just being lascannoned to pieces

Glancing is a bit dicey now. Sure, if I get oddly lucky, glance a Predator six times, and all the chart rolls are 1’s and 2’s? It’s glanced to death.

But, if even one of the chart rolls is 3-6? It survives. Barely, and in poor shape, but still there.

I…kinda like that. Means Glancing is an option, but you still ideally want Penetration.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Warhammer Community wrote:We’ll leave you here for now, but there’s still a lot more to see – including a new system for Flyer Combat Assignments that makes Aircraft more engaging and interactive. There’s actually a whole system for infantry assaults against Titans, in which valiant troops climb all over the enormous war machines and desperately probe for weaknesses while the crew fight them off! You can even dispatch jump-pack equipped Space Marines to attack the head in close combat…

OK, that sounds kind of fun!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
May have read it wrong, but it seems a bit disjointed that penetrating hits don't also cause a status effect at the same time. I'd be guessing here, but getting autocannoned to death seems to cause a more realistic (!) degredation of performance instead of just being lascannoned to pieces

Glancing is a bit dicey now. Sure, if I get oddly lucky, glance a Predator six times, and all the chart rolls are 1’s and 2’s? It’s glanced to death.

But, if even one of the chart rolls is 3-6? It survives. Barely, and in poor shape, but still there.

I…kinda like that. Means Glancing is an option, but you still ideally want Penetration.

Yeah, I get that. For me, I'd like it so that penetrating also causes a status effect in addition to the hull point loss. Gives a more realistic feeling of a vehicle being shot to pieces. It's taking a lot of fire, it's surpressed, weapons are sparking, etc. Whereas, just loosing hull points purely through penetrating hits means it can perform top notch till it explodes.

 CragHack wrote:

What's better than spending 6-8 hours on a single 3k game anyway.

Some of us take that long already...

I only ever saw titans in Titan v Titan games. Most of the events I play in don't allow them, so I'm not too worried. However, I already didn't enjoy playing Titan v Titan. I don't think whatever these new rules are will change that.

True. Wonder how that might inform vehicle selection.

Certainly, as I’m not terribly fond my tanks degrading, I think I’d be much more careful about facing. 10 Bolt Pistols up the rear armour is now super unlikely to kill me. But it might just prevent my tank being Killy enough to do its job.

That vehicle damage table is crap, the old one actually says what the result means, but now you roll for a "Tactical Status" which corresponds to a "Status Effect" (a different thing), the rules for which are somewhere else. It's such a clear retrograde step.


When we were talking about it being somebody's first rulebook i didn't realise we were talking about the author.

Sooooo. Let me get this straight. Lascannons now permanently bad unless i mass them out the wazoo, any tank running lascannons to hunt other tanks is now esentially worthless.
Melta just one shots or halfs a pred now reliably otoh and afaik is easier too mass, has more than enough delivery systems and all the pred got as an exchange was... let me check, 2 hull points.

This is..... dumb.....

If anyone's wondering, experts say the Sicaran Arcus in the banner is still the resin model

Vehicle rules are the best bit we've seen so far, the Glancing chart is slick and efficiently co-opts the existing status effects into representing permanent physical damage. I would be proud to have this in my homebrew.

Pens not getting a roll on the chart does cause a bit of immersion break and, combined with the changes to weapon profiles, will lead to some strange outcomes. We've learned, for example, that Armourbane turns glances into pens. This means a lascannon will never glance, so a single lsacannon can only ever plink 1-2 HP off a vehicle (that start at 5 HP for a Rhino) with no hope of suppressing it in the slightest, which is very different to what we're used to, when you could reasonably expect the vehicle to at least not shoot for a turn.

Titan rules, vaguely described as they are, sound sensible for a centrepiece model you will only ever have 1 of and close to what I'd do if I were making Titan rules (the stats on that Reaver look frighteningly generous tho)

Also, from the email.

Plastic missile Sicarius confirmed? Apparently not.

My 6-man meltagun squad in a Dreadclaw is making a comeback. They didn't do squat in 2nd edition. They'll be nuking Spartans in 3rd edition.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Pens not getting a roll on the chart does cause a bit of immersion break and,

I think that's my biggest issue with it. Penitrating hits should do...something.

This means a lascannon will never glance, so a single lsacannon can only ever plink 1-2 HP off a vehicle (that start at 5 HP for a Rhino) with no hope of suppressing it in the slightest

My lascannons usually come in 5 or 10-man squads, so they'll getter done.

Ignore this one

We're getting close to the much sought after vehicle-monster parity from the wrong side now, with vehicles likely to reach their last hull point without having ever suffered any degree of suppression!

Kinda. Ish.

Autocannon and their ilk now occupy an interesting new niche of being suppressors of vehicles, with a fairly reasonable chance of plinking something to death.

So far as we know right now, we’re also no longer looking to AP2 or AP1 for efficient tank blatting, which I’m not against.

Melta may also not be quite as filthy as first thought, as sure it can kick out a lot of damage, and all glances penetrate within a certain range. But, they get no help in first getting past armour, as there’s no Bonus D6 to Armour Pen.

So, that squad of 5 in a Dreadclaw are taking their chances against AV14, and possibly pushing their luck some against AV13.

And having such a short range where they’re truly effective means if they don’t squish it? Maybe it’s them that’ll get the squishing instead.

Of course, Multi-meltas likely get a pretty big natural buff now there’s a bonus for staying still, rather than a penalty for being on the move. So swings and roundabouts.

A lot will also depend on where certain squads fall in the FoC.

But…I might just be swinging by Chaos Cards on my meander to the pub tonight to get another 20 MkVI for the Heavy Weapons I have on sprue.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:


I never thought that Paralegal Degree would pay off! Now I can use my skills to play a game.

One of my lawyer friends is an ITC event rules guy and is our store's go to for rules questions, so it has its uses in our spheres.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Also, from the email.

Plastic missile Sicarius confirmed? Apparently not.

For some reason I can't imagine them using a FW resin model in these pictures anymore...but yah...never say never!

 kronk wrote:

 CragHack wrote:

What's better than spending 6-8 hours on a single 3k game anyway.

Some of us take that long already...

I only ever saw titans in Titan v Titan games. Most of the events I play in don't allow them, so I'm not too worried. However, I already didn't enjoy playing Titan v Titan. I don't think whatever these new rules are will change that.

I've used my Warhound in both our big end of campaign games as well as a few normal 3K games and honestly? It never does enough outside of those big games where there's other big stuff to justify not bringing just 750 points of more normal stuff.

Vehicle rules are definitely the better of everything previewed so far. Don't think meltas are going to be quite as problematic as suggested, given they seem to be losing the bonus to armour penetration - lone combi-meltas probably less useful than a squad full of them for example and haven't done the maths, but don't the changes mean that a lascannon dev squads are actually probably more reliably going to nuke a tank a turn (you only need to get 3 from a squad to hit and minimum glance to take out a pred for example)?

The effort on titan rules is interesting given how few people actually have them... I know it's as illusive and unlikely as a plastic thunderhawk, but it would make sense to put that much into titan rules if a plastic warhound was coming, wouldn't it...?

A full 10 man lascannon squad just barely ekes out 3 pens (4+, due to armourbane), doing 6 damage.

A 5 man melta squad gets 1 pen on average, doing 6 damage.

Assuming the delivery method/meltas themselves don't make the 5 man squad more expensive than the 10 man squad, the meltas are more efficient (but vulnerable to invulnerable saves messing up the one damaging hit)

Piousservant wrote:
Don't think meltas are going to be quite as problematic as suggested, given they seem to be losing the bonus to armour penetration

The weapons article says they still get Armourbane in addition to the doubled damage at Melta range.