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Shep wrote:As much as I like cover... it isn't just the strength 10 lance, which is pretty fantastic, I like the ap3 small blast as well, but easily looked and more important to me is another source of shadow in the warp.

With just 1 hive tyrant, the fex list is just too vulnerable to JOTWW without them.

The venomthrope would be a lot cooler in the non-MC list I put up, but weakening that lists anti-tank for more survivability could be devastating.

Well, I guess my first question would be: will the venthropes cover buble effect MC? If it does, I think that could be huge. How do you currently create cover for MC? By building a shield wall with guard, warriors, or other MC. But to do so, they need to be B2B to inhibbit LOS, and quite often adjacent to the MC. This makes your wall vulnerable to blast templates (unlike vehicles where a blast can only really hurt one target at a time due to the center hole deal). Quite possibly with a venomthrope, you can have cover without risking a vulnerable shield wall.

I guess we disagree on the Zoes being "anti-tank". Stastistically they are not (even with lance), but maybe Tzech favors you . The plasma cannon and the shadow in the warp is something to consider.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MilkmanAl wrote:Shadow in the Warp that causes perils tests -as the new version is rumored to - is quite a lot more useful than it used to be. It pushes even LD 10 psykers to failing their powers on an average roll and increases the chance of taking a wound from 1/18 to around 1/7. That's a nice improvement, especially if you're up against Rune Priest spam.

.

Oh, that is something different

Khornatedemon wrote:
Can anyone confirm or deny that boneswords ignore armor saves? I've seen it mentioned in some rumors but not others and depending on cost could make warriors much more killy than they are.

from what i've heard boneswords are now force weapons and if you take 2 something else happens as well. ALso for those who have'nt heard, apparantly canifexes can now be taken in broods of 3!!! Robin Cruddace really knows how to make codexes not broken at all. (there was so much sarcasm intended in that last sentence i cried for about 10 minutes)

from what i've heard boneswords are now force weapons and if you take 2 something else happens as well. ALso for those who have'nt heard, apparantly canifexes can now be taken in broods of 3!!! Robin Cruddace really knows how to make codexes not broken at all. (there was so much sarcasm intended in that last sentence i cried for about 10 minutes)

From what i know they do function as force weapons, and a pair will give additional effects, but thats all i know from what ive seen about

True, 3 fex's in a brood seem overkill, but dont be a gakker all your life
Base cost of 170 points each now, not immune to ID.
Less upgrades to help it survive (goodbye 2+ save)
Its actually balanced them fine, if anything, made them worse.

Oh, and to add to that, you cant take them as elite anymore

from what i've heard bone swords are now force weapons. And for those who don't know carnifexes can now be taken in broods of 3!!! Robin Cruddace really knows how to make codexes not broken at all. (There was so much sarcasm intended in that last sentnce that i cried for about 10 minutes.)




Sorry just saw the above post. i havnt got the hang of how to use quote on dakka yet

I'm not following you on the brokenness of 3 MC's for 600 points thing...Also, from what I understand, boneswords require your enemy to fail a leadership test, not for you to pass one. That's significantly less impressive than force weapons.

Rumored 12" range on shadow in the warp makes it situational. Though it seems to be standard ability for all synapse creatures, which is nice both in the increased coverage and that it doesn't take up (a now more valuable) psychic power slot. I like it also, since that gives our Tyrant (and any multiwounders in range) a chance to stop a force weapon attempt. Key now that EW is gone.

Sorry just saw the above post. i havnt got the hang of how to use quote on dakka yet

No probs mate, easy way of doing it is click on the "post reply" button on the bottom left.
Copy and paste the text into the box, highlight it and click on the quote box above the text box.

Its just a case of adding in the tags, which that does for you.

Give it time and you wont even need to use that, you just learn the tags.




Milkman: I say its even more impressive.
Use death to drop thier LD, then use the sword on characters while having a reduced LD.
I actually like this more, as you can scare the gak out of expensive models then ID them with ease.

Hey, im saying the 3 fex's per HS aint broken
I think it adds to the list.

Oh, interesting point. Still, you'd have to get the force sword guy down to LD3 or 4 to equate with LD 10 or 9, respectively, using a force weapon. The close combat penalties definitely make boneswords better than I was thinking, though.

Nope, that would mean having to work
2 boneswords make them take that test on 3D6.
Average roll there would be 10 (AV. on 2 dice = 7, 3 = 10)

So, against a LD 10 model your allready there with average rolls.
If you add into that deaths rules you can then make them fail on average.
Also, not all characters are LD10

So, all in all, i think a flyrant with a pair of lash whips (make enemy strike at I1) and twin boneswords will make a great character hunter.
Failing that, you use him to hunt down MC's or anything tough.

So yea, i love boneswords
And from what i know, they are available to warriors too (not sure on double though)

So nids will now become ID specialists

winterman wrote:Rumored 12" range on shadow in the warp makes it situational. Though it seems to be standard ability for all synapse creatures, which is nice both in the increased coverage and that it doesn't take up (a now more valuable) psychic power slot. I like it also, since that gives our Tyrant (and any multiwounders in range) a chance to stop a force weapon attempt. Key now that EW is gone.

.

If it is standard on all synapse, wouldn't that mean Zoes wouldn't get Shadow in the Warp? Or do Zoes come with synapse?

Wow, I can see a bright future in Ork and Tau hunting for the bugs. I missed that 3D6 part, and that is awesome. However, I think you'd probably be better off getting your Warriors rending claws if they were going to be combat specialists.

Depends really mate.
If your going against another nid army i'd be tempted to kit out a unit of warriors with swords and wings and send them hunting.
Also, bikernobz will get stung like feth by this, so its a win-win situation.

Im just glad they brought them back, rather than nerfed them with a fething psychic power lol.

Hmmm...the rumor page at Warseer is back up. It says that the GW has officialy announced that if the Trygon lands on a unit it counts as assaulting said unit. Maybe we might see lictors afterall?

wyomingfox wrote:Well, I guess my first question would be: will the venthropes cover buble effect MC? If it does, I think that could be huge. How do you currently create cover for MC? By building a shield wall with guard, warriors, or other MC. But to do so, they need to be B2B to inhibbit LOS, and quite often adjacent to the MC. This makes your wall vulnerable to blast templates (unlike vehicles where a blast can only really hurt one target at a time due to the center hole deal). Quite possibly with a venomthrope, you can have cover without risking a vulnerable shield wall.

I guess we disagree on the Zoes being "anti-tank". Stastistically they are not (even with lance), but maybe Tzech favors you . The plasma cannon and the shadow in the warp is something to consider.

.

The whole package is what i like about the zoeys. If you are so close to a librarian/rune priest that he is hooding your powers, then you have shadow in the warp on him most likely. I know the odds of making a 'one shot, one kill' with a warp lance, but i'm not necessarily looking for that. I'll take a crew stunned to set up a fex charge, I'll sure as hell take an immobilized. I've got three models shooting at it, and if an opportunity presents itself I'll take the lance shot. In my first list, I wouldn't consider them my primary 'anti-land raider'. That would be the three carnifex. I would consider it a land raider option, and I would certainly enjoy the one-two combo of hive guard pop rhino, zoeys lob 3 warp blasts inside wreck.

I am absolutely certain that I'd take 3 zoeys over 7, 8 and 9 hive guard. Thats just too focused. As for venomthrope. I'm doing my best to remember that this guy isn't a KFF mek. He isn't an IC, he is solo, and he is T4. He may or may not have warp field, a single vendetta scouts around a carnifex screen and launches 3 lascannons into him and he's dead. Not that this invalidates his point cost, but rather that this elite slot is VERY competitive. A KFF field without the protection of a battlewagon or 30 fearless boys. I like the idea of the model, but he is a little 'techy' for me right now. With nids the first order of business is to shut down gunships and transports, have some good CC to remove enemy models off the table, and then add utility, Zoanthrope utility (anti-tank, anti-marine, anti-psyker) is too attractive to me. Especially if I already have 6 hive guard and 4 heavy venom cannons (theoreticallt of course).

Now, an equivalent points second tyrant with venom cannon and lash whip/bonesword could take my eye off the zoeys. He's got everything but the anti-land raider.

wyomingfox wrote:If it is standard on all synapse, wouldn't that mean Zoes wouldn't get Shadow in the Warp? Or do Zoes come with synapse?

warpshadow's rumor summary has them with it. That's all I'm operating under. The discussion changes if they have something else or none of the above, likewise the discussion changes if warp lance and warp blast are not psychic powers or they pass automatically.

Hmmm, good eye on the venomthrope Shep. I didn't see the toughness 4. That would make him pretty easy to pop, cover save or no cover.

Guess we will have to wait for Schep Himself to get another glance at the codex again in regards to Zoes and if they have Shadow in the Warp.

I am not sure I would recommend maxing 3 hive guard units, then again, maybe you shouldn't max the elites at all. Your elite slots are in just as much competition with troops, heavies, HQ, and fast attack as they are with themselves, when it comes to points that is. So in that sense, I am waiting to see how Trygons, Harpies, Ravenors, Warriors, ect pan out.

Going back to warriors...they make a nice deterrant for others joining assaults. Think about it, we all know 5th edition is about multiple combats. Would 5 cc termies join the fight if there were a few dual wielded boneswords in there with a load of hormagaunts? Would Ghaz trundle over to help his boys out? I think not. Puts cc back in our favour in a big way.

wyomingfox wrote:Guess we will have to wait for Shep Himself to get another glance at the codex again.

Tomorrow maybe. What were the most important questions, though?

Greets
Schepp himself

Oops, thinking about it Ghaz probably has EW, so bad example there...but you get the picture.

Schepp himself wrote:

wyomingfox wrote:Guess we will have to wait for Shep Himself to get another glance at the codex again.

Tomorrow maybe. What were the most important questions, though?

Greets
Schepp himself

You set yourself up there . It would be nice to know if the Trygon has fleet? If twin scytails grant rerolls against vehicles? Do Zoes get Shadow in the Warp and what is thier point costs?

JD21290 wrote:

from what i've heard boneswords are now force weapons and if you take 2 something else happens as well. ALso for those who have'nt heard, apparantly canifexes can now be taken in broods of 3!!! Robin Cruddace really knows how to make codexes not broken at all. (there was so much sarcasm intended in that last sentence i cried for about 10 minutes)

From what i know they do function as force weapons, and a pair will give additional effects, but thats all i know from what ive seen about

True, 3 fex's in a brood seem overkill, but dont be a gakker all your life
Base cost of 170 points each now, not immune to ID.
Less upgrades to help it survive (goodbye 2+ save)
Its actually balanced them fine, if anything, made them worse.

Oh, and to add to that, you cant take them as elite anymore

outside of grey knight grand master force weapons, there isn't much that is likely to ID your fex before your fex kills the bearer.

Force weapons.

kirsanth wrote:Force weapons.

crap, ninja'ed by less than 10 seconds!

Schepp himself wrote:

wyomingfox wrote:Guess we will have to wait for Shep Himself to get another glance at the codex again.

Tomorrow maybe. What were the most important questions, though?

Greets
Schepp himself

Points costs, points costs, and more points costs!

Thank you, by the way, from all of us who may be building figs for January tourneys.

warboss wrote:outside of grey knight grand master force weapons, there isn't much that is likely to ID your fex before your fex kills the bearer.

For those, EW does not help. It is the rest of the force weapons that cause ID.

It should be noted that boneswords are rumoured to be like Direswords, not force weapons. That is, for your wounded target to ID, he has to fail a leadership test rather than you passing one. It isn't as good as it sounds unless you take the pair to force the test on 3d6.

Platuan4th wrote:

Oldgrue wrote:Wher are my strangleweb rules? I have a brood of 32 of the buggers and want my 32 flame templates!!

Or at least confirmation that 'gaunts can't get them in 32 strong blocks....

Rumours point to 1 per every 10 Gaunts.

Great. Now I gotta go buy another 100 gaunts. *grumblegrumblegrumble*

It's probably one test PER unsaved wound. Lots of characters have 3+ wounds so if you cause 2 unsaved wounds that equates to 2 more chances to fail Ld. Also, some ability the Tyrant can access lowers Ld by 1.

If true 9 or lower on 2d6 multiple times has good odds of doing something.

I'm planning to run with Crushing claws, bone sword and lash whip on my Tyrant. Lower I to 1 so I can either strike first with bonesword or get +d3 attacks and strike simultaneous.

Here's what I MIGHT do if I where Schep...

I MIGHT take pics with a camera phone in focus of all relevant necessary pages...

I MIGHT put all those pics in a pdf file...

I MIGHT upload that pdf file onto the interwebz

and I MIGHT provide a hidden link for all my dakka friends on my genestealer icon to that pdf file for download...

Please note, I am NOT telling anyone to do this, I'm just saying that I MIGHT do this if I was in a position to relay information....

I might... that's all....

just....


maybe



(P.S. I haven't done this, clicking my nid icon is futile)

Omega_Warlord wrote:Here's what I MIGHT do if I where Schep...

I MIGHT take pics with a camera phone in focus of all relevant necessary pages...

I MIGHT put all those pics in a pdf file...

I MIGHT upload that pdf file onto the interwebz

and I MIGHT provide a hidden link for all my dakka friends on my genestealer icon to that pdf file for download...

Please note, I am NOT telling anyone to do this, I'm just saying that I MIGHT do this if I was in a position to relay information....

I might... that's all....

just....


maybe



(P.S. I haven't done this, clicking my nid icon is futile)

And we just might wear out our mouse-clicking fingers trying to get our next fix of rumor-crack. Thanks for the false hope, buddy.

Omega_Warlord wrote:Here's what I MIGHT do if I where Schep...

I MIGHT take pics with a camera phone in focus of all relevant necessary pages...

I MIGHT put all those pics in a pdf file...

I MIGHT upload that pdf file onto the interwebz

and I MIGHT provide a hidden link for all my dakka friends on my genestealer icon to that pdf file for download...

Please note, I am NOT telling anyone to do this, I'm just saying that I MIGHT do this if I was in a position to relay information....

I might... that's all....

just....


maybe



(P.S. I haven't done this, clicking my nid icon is futile)

+1