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Anvildude wrote: plus Choppa and Slugga, meaning they have an extra attack.

In my Codex they only have Choppa, no slugga, so no extra attack.

matphat wrote:Just to mirror a lot of other comments on allies, I too was really skeptical about ever taking any, as it made my feel "dirty" too.
Then, like a lot of the others here have mentioned, I realised that Orks have the very best of fluff reasons to take any frakin allies they want. Looting other armies, and really modeling them up well to appear to be looted is just the biggest gold mine ever for orks. I have about 100 ideas already for how it would work.
My first project is already sprung to life in my head. Now I just need to get the Tau it requires to do so.

Heck there was even that story in the ork codex of the ork commander that raided a few tau armories

in the current codex there is a story of a speed freak mob raiding tau, and perhaps towards the end a few tau surrendered and the orks thought hey...these tanks are fast! :O we'll take em! and hence the team was formed....tau being abused by gretchin inside hammerheads

valminder wrote:

Anvildude wrote: plus Choppa and Slugga, meaning they have an extra attack.

In my Codex they only have Choppa, no slugga, so no extra attack.

They have pistols, which gives us an extra attack in assaults. Pg. 100 of the Ork codex tells you the wargear, which is Slugga and Choppa. Also, why the hell are Orks allies with Imperial Guard? You'd think Armageddon would have taught them a thing or two...

virx67 wrote:

valminder wrote:

Anvildude wrote: plus Choppa and Slugga, meaning they have an extra attack.

In my Codex they only have Choppa, no slugga, so no extra attack.

They have pistols, which gives us an extra attack in assaults. Pg. 100 of the Ork codex tells you the wargear, which is Slugga and Choppa. Also, why the hell are Orks allies with Imperial Guard? You'd think Armageddon would have taught them a thing or two...

It'll be fun taking ghazzy with Yarrick as an ally.

I think the worst ally fluff-wise for Orks are Necrons. In both previous codices for Orks and Necrons it's mentioned that the Orks were genetically engineered specifically to fight the Necrons by the Old Ones. The Necrons were able to defeat the technologically advandnced but few-in-number Old Ones and their Eldar allies. But the Orks were created as being so alien and numerous to the Necron way of thinking, they were what turned the tide against the Necrons. Then they got out of hand in turn and spread across the galaxy like a virus escaping the lab.

Anywho, that was before the most recent Necron Codex so I guess it doesn't matter anyways.

virx67 wrote:

valminder wrote:

Anvildude wrote: plus Choppa and Slugga, meaning they have an extra attack.

In my Codex they only have Choppa, no slugga, so no extra attack.

They have pistols, which gives us an extra attack in assaults. Pg. 100 of the Ork codex tells you the wargear, which is Slugga and Choppa. Also, why the hell are Orks allies with Imperial Guard? You'd think Armageddon would have taught them a thing or two...

The IOM is notoriously slow to learn

Also Bloodaxe Orks have been hiring out as Mercs to the IOM since forever


Some of the combos are a bit out of whack, if seen from a certain angle. DE and Mono-Slaanesh, for example.

One i noticed IIRC is that DE and BA are absolute nono's. Probably because they'd get in arguments over who was prettier..

DE and SW can work together though, despite the DE fiddling with their acolytes in dark rooms..

Just take an ethereal, and kill him with impact tests at start of game - Key to crushing tau (ethereal death affects all tau on board, not kroot so take 10 of those, you're looking at 120 point screw tau.)

Hmm.. just came up with an idea on how to get some mileage out of my now fairly pointless Koptas, with the added bonus that it might help my kommandos see play;

Warkoptas (IA8 and IAapocalypse 2nd ed), and they so nicely said on their Facebook (forgeworld that is) that it's Fast attack, 1-3, or [b]dedicated transport for kommandos[/b]...

Take kopta, slash it up, add a trukk passenger compartment, add a second engine and rotor, some wings with dakkaguns and et voila.

Do you think taking a warkopta as a dedicated transport for 10 kommandos might give 'em the extra "umph" the lack?
Or are you still better off calling the kommandos slugga boys and either tossing 'em in a trukk, or more prefferebly a BW?

I think Kammandos are still useful. In a footslogging list there are limited ways to contest OBJ's. One thing that really hurts these list is that a unit can only contest/claim a single OBJ. Five out of six games played will be OBJ based. The old tactic of combining Snikrot's units with an IC still works. Yes, youre exposed for a turn. If you put pressure on from both sides and tank with Snikrot's units, I think you have a valid way to contest hard-to-reach OBJ's

mondry wrote:I've been thinking about trying kannons, does anyone have any ideas about what I could use to proxy them in? I want to use 3 squads of 3, so 9 total but that's way too expensive to buy without testing to see if I even like them! With the buff to toughness and being less dependent on battlewagons taking up the heavy support slots I feel like there may be a place for them in some lists. Anyone making good use of them in 6th?

Yea they are easy as all get out to build. Heres the only shot I have of one.

See, ink pen tubes and wheels from something. You can make them even more basic and leave the wheels off if you wanted to, just prop the front up with some sprue.

Here are some I put together from extra trukk bits and some tubing.

Jidmah wrote:

Beer4TheBeerGod wrote:There was also the Mob Up! rule which let you combine retreating boyz with units behind them to make larger and larger squads.

I'm not sold that Orks HAVE to be shooty. Slugga boyz seem to do really well in battlewagons, and that extra attack gives you the flexibility to do things like multi-charge weaker units.

Actually, it doesn't. When multi-charging you lose both your bonus attack and one point of strength. Unless you're charging gretchin or ratlings, you basically allowed your opponent to charge you without overwatch fire.

Yes you lose the bonus attack and point of strength. That's the price you pay for getting engaged with multiple units. But there are many situations where that's a good thing, particularly if you know you'll be able to annihilate one unit and want to stay engaged through the enemy's turn. And since slugga boyz have an extra attack you will do much better when it comes to the 2nd or 3rd round of combat. Let's look at the math: A shoota boy getting charged will get off 2 shots, which averages to 0.33 hits. That slugga boy getting an extra attack will average to 0.5 hits assuming equal WS. Taking into account the difference in strength the two are pretty much the same in terms of wounds caused. On the other hand you've prevented your opponent from getting their charge bonus at the expense of taking overwatch.

The point here is that slugga boyz are better for diving into assaults and tying up as many enemy units as possible. In the case of slugga boyz that's the approach I prefer. For footsloggers who have a better chance of not being in charge range I prefer giving them shootas. They're more flexible. But if I'm going to take a horde of angry orks and plow them into the enemy I want as many attacks as possible.

I could be wrong, but Im pretty sure your doing your figuring wrong there. Shoota boyz get 2 18 inch shots, sluggas only get 1@ 12inches. So while charging a unit, a 30boyz mob with no upgrades gets 60 shots before charging, and since they are within charge range, every boy will get his shots. Then you take out the few that will eat it from over watch. Sluggas will only get 30 shots. So sluggas would get roughly 10 hits, while the shootas will get roughly 20. So sluggas would average roughly 5 wounds and maybe 1 or 2 would fail assuming your assaulting a SM squad. Where as the shootas would get double that, so 3 or 4?, now we are talking about some hurting on SpaceMarines, and this is before assaults.

NOW you can start doing your assault numbers. Your examp[le didnt really make sense, as you were talking about shootas shooting, and then jumping right to sluggas assaulting. Besides, shootas STILL get 3 attacks each. So lets say during over watch you loose 5 boyz.

Sluggas - 25
Shootas - 25

attacks each

Sluggas - 100 attacks
Shootas - 75 attacks.

hits and wounds (against space marines)
Sluggas - roughly 50 hits and roughly 25 wounds
Shootas - roughly 38 hits and roughly 19 wounds

Then take saves. So yea the sluggas would seem to be a little better on charge, but the shootas are much better in shooting, meaning there is fewer attacks AND over watch shots hitting your boyz before charging in. Not to mention its widely agreed on that shootas are more versatile then sluggas mainly because they can sit on objectives and piss out bullets, or tie up tough units just as easy as the other. For my money, unless taking trukk boyz, Id still go shootas hands down.


*I cant spell

PipeAlley wrote:I think the worst ally fluff-wise for Orks are Necrons. In both previous codices for Orks and Necrons it's mentioned that the Orks were genetically engineered specifically to fight the Necrons by the Old Ones. The Necrons were able to defeat the technologically advandnced but few-in-number Old Ones and their Eldar allies. But the Orks were created as being so alien and numerous to the Necron way of thinking, they were what turned the tide against the Necrons. Then they got out of hand in turn and spread across the galaxy like a virus escaping the lab.

Anywho, that was before the most recent Necron Codex so I guess it doesn't matter anyways.

The structure of the allies matrix has really made any sort of logical application of allies (from a fluff/assumed common sense angle) a moot point.

It is so wide open that it is left to players to make logical and fluffy allies when they design their armies, and we know how that usually goes...

KingCracker wrote:I could be wrong, but Im pretty sure your doing your figuring wrong there. Shoota boyz get 2 18 inch shots, sluggas only get 1@ 12inches. So while charging a unit, a 30boyz mob with no upgrades gets 60 shots before charging, and since they are within charge range, every boy will get his shots. Then you take out the few that will eat it from over watch. Sluggas will only get 30 shots. So sluggas would get roughly 10 hits, while the shootas will get roughly 20. So sluggas would average roughly 5 wounds and maybe 1 or 2 would fail assuming your assaulting a SM squad. Where as the shootas would get double that, so 3 or 4?, now we are talking about some hurting on SpaceMarines, and this is before assaults.

NOW you can start doing your assault numbers. Your example didnt really make sense, as you were talking about shootas shooting, and then jumping right to sluggas assaulting. Besides, shootas STILL get 3 attacks each. So lets say during over watch you loose 5 boyz.

...

Then take saves. So yea the sluggas would seem to be a little better on charge, but the shootas are much better in shooting, meaning there is fewer attacks AND over watch shots hitting your boyz before charging in. Not to mention its widely agreed on that shootas are more versatile then sluggas mainly because they can sit on objectives and piss out bullets, or tie up tough units just as easy as the other. For my money, unless taking trukk boyz, Id still go shootas hands down.

My number crunching was in response to the allegation that "multi-charging basically lets the enemy charge you for free without overwatch." So I was specifically comparing the situation of a mob of shoota boyz being charged and getting overwatch versus a mob of slugga boyz getting charged and getting an extra attack in. That is the kind of situation that I would most likely expect to encounter after a mob of battlewagon boyz charged in, annihilated a unit, and is targeted for a reprisal from the opponent. I agree that shootas are more flexible and, when shooting is taken into account, are capable of doing more damage. However given the capricious and unpredictable nature of random charge I would not want to risk losing the charge in pursuit of a few casualties. Especially since those casualties would apply towards my active turn, and if I can help it at all I would want combat to last through to my opponent's turn.

So let's be clear about my position. If your boyz are on foot, then they should have shootas and be in maximum sized squads. If your boyz are mounted, and your goal is to get them into assault, then they should have sluggas.

Ahh that does make a bit more sense. Though Id change your argument to accepting shootas in BW as well. 20 Shoota boyz is still better then sluggas hands down.

Sorry if this has already been discussed, but I posted this in the other Ork tactics thread, and noticed that it was this thread that was active instead

Original post:

I know that slugga boys took a big hit this edition, but I'm hell bent on getting them to work anyway!

I have a chance though: I play in a private club, so we make our own rule amendments to avoid internet spam lists (also no allies) in our gaming environment. This forces the players to make use of less common units, which makes for more diverse and interesting games where people have to exploit the weaknesses of the opponents army while not letting him exploit his own weaknesses.

I was slowly building an Ork army in the end of 5th and some of the first units I assembled and painted was a trukk, 10 slugga boys and a PK Nob. The Trukk + boys unit was intended as a delivery system for an Ork Warboss, and I just wanted to ask you if this is still a somewhat viable way to run sluggas and a Warboss in 6th edition.

The idea was that the Boys take some bolter rounds to the face after disembarking, and the Warboss give them some much needed LD and close combat punch in return. On the trukk I have a ram, RPJ and a boarding plank so the warboss can get some hits in on a vehicle if he gets the chance without needing to disembark.

I planned to run another Trukk with slugga boys in the 1000pts list, a shooty battlewagon with shoota boys (and a big mek perhaps) with some rokkit deffcoptas and rokkit buggies as fast attack. Later on I plan to add another BW made for assault carrying a Nob squad, a Boomwagon and a Bommer of some sort.
The idea behind the army is to weaken parts of the enemy army with shooting and then make a focused assault on the weakened units while shooting the intact units left on the board.
The only other army I have is a hybrid IG list, so I started the Ork army because I wanted a faster, more close combat oriented army, but still with some shooting, although on faster platforms. What do you guys think? I really just want to get something semi useful out of the models that I have already bought and painted, as I don't have many Orks or a lot of time to paint in.

If you're in a private club, and you're still building the army, I'd like to take this chance to advise you to model and try out Wrekkin' Balls and Grabbin' Klaws on at least some of your vehicles- They have interesting utility against Flyers (rules are debatable, but pure As Written, they should work awesomely, if only at extremely short range) and if you're in an environment that encourages "odd" builds, they add cheap versatility and use to your list- the Grabbin' Klaw, especially, could be great on the assault Wagon, and mounting your Trukks with Wrekkin' Balls gives you a bunch of cheap Str 9 shots.

Orks suck in 6th, their shooting is terrible as always, and in assault they blow... lootas are still amazing, but they are so easy to pin.. and orks at I2 are a joke, i had 10 nobz with a boss get a charge on Calgar and honour guard, i lost combat by one wound, we take the initiative test for his sweeping advance, and since orks I2 i lost horribly.. i instantly lost 9 nobz and a unscathed warboss... Initiative 2 is a joke, assault phase in general is bad in 6th..

I'm pretty sure that you use the highest I in the unit, including IC's, so you should have done the test on your Warbosses initiative.

Beer4TheBeerGod wrote:Yes you lose the bonus attack and point of strength. That's the price you pay for getting engaged with multiple units. But there are many situations where that's a good thing, particularly if you know you'll be able to annihilate one unit and want to stay engaged through the enemy's turn. And since slugga boyz have an extra attack you will do much better when it comes to the 2nd or 3rd round of combat.

Wait, what? First of all, losing that point of strength and the attack is a steep price. Assuming 20 slugga boyz, you kill three instead of six marines if multi-charging or 13 instead of 23 guardsmen. Not to mention the second unit shooting overwatch and striking you in close combat, twice, as well. Unless you are in danger of takeing multiple direct hits from a manticore, multi-charges are both suicide and a waste of offensive power. If you can pull them off in the first place - it's not as easy as in 5th anymore. And, if anything, extra attacks do not help staying stuck in combat.

Let's look at the math: A shoota boy getting charged will get off 2 shots, which averages to 0.33 hits. That slugga boy getting an extra attack will average to 0.5 hits assuming equal WS. Taking into account the difference in strength the two are pretty much the same in terms of wounds caused. On the other hand you've prevented your opponent from getting their charge bonus at the expense of taking overwatch.

You're missing one essential thing: Shoota boyz get to shoot before the enemy strikes, slugga boyz get their extra attack after they strike. A unit of 9 tactical marines(one shot dead by sluggas) will kill about four boyz (close combat+overwatch), making you lose 16 attacks, before you even strike. If the mob was 20 strong, average total amount of dead marines is 6.5.
The same mob as shoota boyz, kills two marines by shooting, lose only three boyz by overwatch and melee, for a total of 6.5 dead marines as well. The difference? Shoota boyz have one more ork left, and they could have shot the marines during the turn before they charged, since they have 18" range.
Now, assuming two units of boring marines (no fancy stuff like veterans or terminators), bolters only:
20 Sluggas: Shoot 1 marine dead, lose 3 to overwatch, lose 4 to close combat, kill 2 marines in melee. They lose combat next turn and will most likely get run down.
20 Shootas: Shoot 2 marines dead, lose 3 to overwatch, lose 4 to close combat, kill 2 marines in melee. They lose combat next turn and will most likely get run down as well.
So Sluggas in battlewagons still shouldn't multi-assault. Neither should 30 sluggas that lost more than 7 members while running across the board. Or units which can't get all their boyz in combat. So unless all the stars align, even weak units like tactical marines will beat you when you multi-assault them. Even mobs of 30 with a PK will take less casualties if they charge and annihilate the first unit of marines and then receive the charge and shooting of the second unit. In which case shoota boyz are better again, due to being able to twice as much overwatch.

The point here is that slugga boyz are better for diving into assaults and tying up as many enemy units as possible. In the case of slugga boyz that's the approach I prefer. For footsloggers who have a better chance of not being in charge range I prefer giving them shootas. They're more flexible. But if I'm going to take a horde of angry orks and plow them into the enemy I want as many attacks as possible.

A rock is also better for cracking tanks than a banana. They still aren't good. Multi-assaults are terrible for all kinds boyz, if your only argument is them being better in multi-assaults, then that's absolutely not worth it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bonde wrote:I'm pretty sure that you use the highest I in the unit, including IC's, so you should have done the test on your Warbosses initiative.

That's correct.

Frecklesonfire wrote:Orks suck in 6th, their shooting is terrible as always, and in assault they blow... lootas are still amazing, but they are so easy to pin.. and orks at I2 are a joke, i had 10 nobz with a boss get a charge on Calgar and honour guard, i lost combat by one wound, we take the initiative test for his sweeping advance, and since orks I2 i lost horribly.. i instantly lost 9 nobz and a unscathed warboss... Initiative 2 is a joke, assault phase in general is bad in 6th..

Nobz have 3 ini and warboss has 4 ini.

Frecklesonfire wrote:Orks suck in 6th, their shooting is terrible as always, and in assault they blow... lootas are still amazing, but they are so easy to pin.. and orks at I2 are a joke, i had 10 nobz with a boss get a charge on Calgar and honour guard, i lost combat by one wound, we take the initiative test for his sweeping advance, and since orks I2 i lost horribly.. i instantly lost 9 nobz and a unscathed warboss... Initiative 2 is a joke, assault phase in general is bad in 6th..

So you used the wrong stats, and had a bad roll AND tried assaulting a Calgar lead unit with Nobz and are whining about losing them? Riiiiiiiiiight. Im going to say stop using the wrong stats, the wrong rules and assault something like Calgar with Nobz and you should be in good shape. Orks are awesome in 6th, so far, they are near the top, with a rather old codex. Trust me, they do not suck. Next time, either ignore Calgar and crew, or throw 2 boyz units at them, dont waste your nobz on something that WILL ID them with every one of his attacks, or punch holes in any Warboss you toss at him.

Also, pro tip, stop putting bosses in with Nobz.

You lost combat by one wound, that still gives you a Ld8 test plus a re-roll (assuming you haven't been daft enough to leave home without a boss pole). That's generally referred to as unlucky.

Obrac wrote:

Frecklesonfire wrote:Orks suck in 6th, their shooting is terrible as always, and in assault they blow... lootas are still amazing, but they are so easy to pin.. and orks at I2 are a joke, i had 10 nobz with a boss get a charge on Calgar and honour guard, i lost combat by one wound, we take the initiative test for his sweeping advance, and since orks I2 i lost horribly.. i instantly lost 9 nobz and a unscathed warboss... Initiative 2 is a joke, assault phase in general is bad in 6th..

Nobz have 3 ini and warboss has 4 ini.

And you remembered to take that test on LD 10 (modified), right? Nobs and Warbosses have Mob Rule, and you take a Break test before running...

One thing...how did 9 nobz and a warboss deal 1 wound?......You said you lost the combat by one, so calgar mandem must have killed one nob to get 2 wounds on score, you either kitted them out horribly or had insanely bad dice rolls, not to mention using wrong stats, as well as the above mob rule point

Frecklesonfire wrote:Orks suck in 6th, their shooting is terrible as always, and in assault they blow... lootas are still amazing, but they are so easy to pin.. and orks at I2 are a joke, i had 10 nobz with a boss get a charge on Calgar and honour guard, i lost combat by one wound, we take the initiative test for his sweeping advance, and since orks I2 i lost horribly.. i instantly lost 9 nobz and a unscathed warboss... Initiative 2 is a joke, assault phase in general is bad in 6th..

Everyone else who's responded has the right idea. All that said, you are wrong. Orks are rocking in 6th. Even better than 5th.
All of my games have been amazingly fun and very successful. Orks really are shinning now.

Yeah my orks have yet to lose a 6th game that I can recall.had a couple draws but that's it. Been finding orks doing good this Ed. Deffrollas kinda dead but eh. Still great just hard to get to use em. I take 2 wagons and lucky if one rolls 1 thing

Edited for mobile mistakes.

So, Big gunz are sweet now, and i'm in the process of building 9 of them (3 down!) because it's so easy, and so fun to make them all look different. But what kind of list do they work best with? Green tide? Bikers? Just a ton of lootas and shoota boyz? If anyone has any example lists they can post where they used them, i'd be grateful.