Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've used kannons and lobvas since 3rd ed. They're excellent for fire support, and they just got more durable

I used 'em in a mixed list, but thanks to being allowed extra heavy slots at 2k, they no longer compete with the other heavies, so I think they'll come usefull in just about any list.

They also hands down outshine kans now.
Lobbas are also a great addition to any"slow" lists.
Having trouble with jump inf? Lobba.

//Calle

Unfortunately, me and the boyz that i play with rarely ever play at higher than 1850 a side, and no-one is really that excited about double force org charts. Allies, sure, but otherwise, no.

matphat wrote:Even better than 5th.

I can not agree with this part. Our rules improved/changed but so has most armies.

Currently we are knocking on the door of the 5th edition codices. Which was the case before.

Still, don't forget that lobbas are some of the heaviest mortars in the game...

And how many races actually have access to artillery? Us and Eldar??

//Calle

Was battlewagon bash nerfed like Kan wall was? Or is it still competitive?

Yay and nay. Bringing multiple wagons is still good, infact, as trukks got trashed, they became our premier transport. The deffrolla took a hit though, as most vehickes can avoid it easier.

And as meks can repair hullpoints, units like lootas, burnas and just about anything tagging along the kff mek, makes for hard transports to take down.

//Calle

i realize now i made a few mistakes, the boss pole, and the mob rule, but i was down i think one guy so i didn't get the mob rule actually. it was a devastating loss to the ultramarines which i hate that day excuse my rage .

right now i'm just using the models i have, we play games at 1500 at my local gw store, i have 3 squads of 30 boys, 20 nobz, 2 warbosses, 8 lootas, and a squad of burna boyz, 6 deff koptas.. can i actually make anything from this list work ? any help would be welcomed, actually on a side note i have to imp tanks that could become transport, or looted wagons .. ?

I got my first two games in with my Wagon list that I posted earlier, which is:

KFF - 85
Mega Armor 'Boss, Attack Squig, Cybork - 125

6 Lootas - 90
6 Lootas - 90
6 Lootas - 90

10 Grots with Runtherd - 40
18 Shootas with 1 Big Shoota; Nob PK BP - 159
19 Shootas with 1 Big Shoota; Nob PK BP - 165
19 Shootas with 1 Big Shoota; Nob PK BP - 165
20 Shootas with 1 Big Shoota; Nob PK BP - 171

Dakkajet with extra Supa Shoota and Fighta Ace - 130
Dakkajet with extra Supa Shoota and Fighta Ace - 130

Battlewagon with Deff Rolla, RPJ, Grot Riggers, Armor Plates, Big Shoota and Boarding Plank - 140
Battlewagon with Deff Rolla, RPJ, Grot Riggers, Armor Plates, Big Shoota and Boarding Plank - 140
Battlewagon with Deff Rolla, RPJ, Grot Riggers, Armor Plates, Big Shoota and Boarding Plank - 140
Battlewagon with Deff Rolla, RPJ, Grot Riggers, Armor Plates, Big Shoota and Boarding Plank - 140

2000 points

I played against a list with 6 Flyers (3 Vendettas and 3 Stormtalons) and a BA list with 2 Stormravens, 2 DC Dreads, Mephy, 30 ASM, a Priest, and 10 DC. The 6 Flyer list is something other people would call broken, but when you look at what else is in the list (3 Tac Squads with a PA Libby and 3 squads of Veterans with a CCS), all of a sudden the list doesn't look scary.

I won both games. Lootas are awesome anti Flyer like we've known already. Wagons are actually more durable compared to 5th due to 4 hull points and the fact that the same weapons that killed them in 5th still do so in 6th, meaning no change. The KFF Wagon took all 9 Lascannon hits from the Vendetta squadron and only lost 2 hull points, thanks to cover from ruins.

If I ran all Sluggas, I would've lost against the BA player since it took me all 7 turns to table him. I had 9 Boyz, all of my Lootas and both Dakkajets at the end of the game. Our PK Nobs really do need 'eavy Armor now, so I suggest you give them that.

The BA player suggested I look into giving the KFF a PK due to Look out Sir. Any thoughts regarding that? My initial reaction was not to do so since he's a support HQ, but he does have a valid point.

Alright, it looks like Battlewagon bash is what I'll be building up towards now. Just wanted to make sure that it was still a strong build. I guess you certainly could give the KFF mek a PK, but I wouldn't do that simply because they really shouldn't be in combat. You might as well just give all your nobz heavy armor for an equivalent point cost.

Jag_Calle wrote:Still, don't forget that lobbas are some of the heaviest mortars in the game...

And how many races actually have access to artillery? Us and Eldar??

//Calle

I think the SM have the Thunderfire as Artillery.

It'd be wierd if the IG didn't have any, but at present i'm not sure they do.

IG have Howitzers, not Artillery. (Well, technically, it's the same thing, but in Game Terms Artillery is towed, not self-propelled).

loota boy wrote:So, Big gunz are sweet now, and i'm in the process of building 9 of them (3 down!) because it's so easy, and so fun to make them all look different. But what kind of list do they work best with? Green tide? Bikers? Just a ton of lootas and shoota boyz? If anyone has any example lists they can post where they used them, i'd be grateful.

I don't think Big Gunz work well with Green Tide (though the anti-tank is nice, if you're using kannons) or Bikes (you can't keep up!).

Big Gunz go great with shooty Orks (that includes orks + allies if you please).


In fact, once I finish my Wazdakka + Warbikes + Speedcrons force, I'm going to do Shoota Boyz (at least 40, probably 60) + Big Mek(s) + Necron Warriors + Big Gunz to pull out (hopefully) a highly efficient firestorm.

Jag_Calle wrote:Yay and nay. Bringing multiple wagons is still good, infact, as trukks got trashed, they became our premier transport. The deffrolla took a hit though, as most vehickes can avoid it easier.

And as meks can repair hullpoints, units like lootas, burnas and just about anything tagging along the kff mek, makes for hard transports to take down.

//Calle

Uh, how can most vehicles avoid it easier? If anything, it's harder to dodge now.

Everyone should also keep in mind that glances can no longer wreck or immobilize our battlewagons, so they are a bit harder to stop.

Vehicles can flat out in the shooting phase to stay out of reach of the deffrolla. This is because you can only ram in the movement, not in the flat out/shooting phase.

And what am I missing that BWs don't wreck when they lose their hull points?

*edited for grammer

he was talking about glancing still being a roll on the damage chart.

*grammar

While that may be so the bigger boon is that LRs and Monos can be glanced to death IMHO

mrwhoop wrote:Vehicles can flat out in the shooting phase to stay out of reach of the deffrolla. This is because you can only ram in the movement, not in the flat out/shooting phase.

And what am I missing that BWs don't wreck when they lose their hull points?

*edited for grammer

Before single glance had a pretty high chance to stop your battlewagon. Now you are guaranteed that the first three glances do nothing - even more if you have mek tools.

As for turbo-boosting - sure, let them do that. Boosting vehicles are not shooting. Assuming they actually have room to dodge the battlewagon, of course, let alone multiple battlewagons. And it's not like battlewagons can't simply follow them, forcing them to turbo-boost again next turn.

s for turbo-boosting - sure, let them do that. Boosting vehicles are not shooting. Assuming they actually have room to dodge the battlewagon, of course, let alone multiple battlewagons. And it's not like battlewagons can't simply follow them, forcing them to turbo-boost again next turn.

They wouldn't need to do it a second turn. With pre-measuring they just need to stay a fraction of an inch outside of 12in. to not be rammed in our movement. Granted if you have multiple BWs giving chase that may be giving up any cover/exposing the side armor. Also there's the 'all or nothing' of the tank shock. No more eyeballing the distance and calling it short to avoid PFs/MBs.

*edited for da spelling

Rams always forced you to move the full distance. Regular tank shocks are still a declared distance. None of these changed from 5th.

Plus, you can still aim your tankshock to avoid such models. Only models actually in the path of the tank-shock may DoG. If the sergeant has a melta bomb, just run over the other guys.

As for "no need to do it a second turn".
If a vehicle moves in any other direction other than a straight line away from the battlewagon, is has moved less than the battlewagon. If that line is blocked by own units, terrain, or the table edge (quite likely), they must turbo-bosst again in order to not be rammed. You can even force that movement by blocking a clear path. Or you pay 5 points for RPJ or a grabbin' klaw.

Again, this is no different than trying to dodge deff rollas in 5th. You can only go backwards at full speed for so long.

Hmm, gonna have to sit with my book again as I thought shocks were full tilt now...

Had a 1.7k game last night against bugs.

Hive Tyrant with HVC, talons and nid powers. One Hive Guard.

3 Zoanthropes.

Carnifex with two sets of talons.

Two units of about 15 'stealers.

Two units of about 20 horms.

Unit of about 20 terms.

Unit of 20 Gargoyles.

I had:

2 x Megaboss, Squig, BP, CB

3 x 6 Meganobs in wagon with 4BS, Ram, Riggers and RPJ.

12 Lootas in a wagon with 4 BS, Ram, Riggers and RPJ.

Game was the fifth one (For the Emperor?). We only had time for four turns though.

He went first and deployed across the board, with one unit of stealers on one flank and the other in reserve. Big bugs went in the centre with the horms and the terms on his objective by some rocks just to the side of the carnifex. The gargoyles sat on the other flank.
My objective went pretty much opposite and with the small number of units I had I was able to quite easily pull a refused flank. The warboss wagons went on the far side away from the stealers opposite the terms and gargoyles, the lootas to the side of that and the elite choice meganobs about in the centre of the board.

First turn saw him run forwards and not do much else. I then proceeded to lay down the dakka. 19 gargoyles dropped to the troops meganobs and their wagons in the first turn. The other meganobs dropped some horms and the lootas took a wound or two off the zoanthropes.

More running from him and a hull point + shaken to the meganob unit's wagon opposite the tyrant. The stealers arrived.... on the same side as the other unit, about 3 feet from the nearest ork unit.

I then moved up the troops units up his flank, one heading for the terms and their objective, the other between some rocks to support them and help out with the now dangerously close zoanthropes. The shaken wagon pulled back away from the approaching horms.
More dakka saw a wound on the tyrant, another wounded zoanthrope and more dead horms.

The loota wagon was charged and torn apart by a small group of horms. Another hull point was taken off the nearby wagon by the tyrant.
The zoanthropes missed all their lance shots against the wagon near my objective.

The wagon heading for the terms dumped it's cargo. A few bugs dropped to dakka before massed power klaws tore the rest of the unit apart.
The lootas shot down the last of the horms that blew up their wagon.
The zoanthropes took some more wounds from dakka from the other troops unit sitting in front of my objective.

The carnifex charged the lootas, who managed to pull off an unlikely round of overwatch, taking three wounds off the big gribbly. Three lootas died before the other nine managed to stab it enough times for it to loose it's last wound.
The other unit of horms charged the elite meganob wagon, killing it.
The tyrant cast the WS/BS1 spell on the meganob unit on the objective.

The last embarked unit got out of the wagon to grab my objective. The Lootas dropped some stealers and the elite unit meganob unit dealt with the horms that killed their wagon.
The unit on his objective took the zoanthropes to a single model on one wound and then multi-charged it and the tyrant. The zoanthrope died horribly and the warboss beat the tyrant in a duel.

We had to call it there. Moping up would have been fairly straight forward. The tyrant would drop soon enough (one wound left) allowing me to pull them back onto the objective (I still had mine anyway). I still had 17 meganobs, 9 lootas and two wagons to deal with around 25 stealers arriving piecemeal.

Both had Line Breaker.
He got First Blood (the loota wagon, I couldn't be bothered killing off the single remaining gargoyle when there were other things to do).
I had two objectives.

7-2 to the Deffwing (probably would have finished 8-1 depending on the number of turns).

Oh, just remembered that he had three winged warriors, but they got blown apart pretty quickly buy the judicious application of dakka.
I also forgot that the lootas in the wagon assaulted by the horms could have overwatched when it was assaulted, which might have saved it.

matphat,

You missed a con. Apparently the ork FAQ changed Ghazghkull's prophet of waaagh so it no longer grants fearless to all units.

Instead of just replacing the first sentence of the 3rd paragraph, they replaced the entire paragraph removing the part about gaining fearless.

I have an interesting question:

Which is better Flash Gitz or Nobz with TL Shootas?

10 Nobz with Painboy and Waargh Banner is 335
10 Gitz each with Blasta upgrade and with Painboy is 325

Flash Gitz have strength 5, 24" range, a random AP and ignore cover.

Nobz have strength 4, 18" range, AP 6, and are Twin Linked.

The Nobz can use any 6's to Sniper out enemy melta guns and powerfists, and get to do lots of Look Out Splat rolls

They also can count as Troops, and get a Battlewagon as Dedicated.

To me it seems that the lower range and strength are worthy sacrifices for the gains, but am interested to hear your opinions.

I agree that this isn't the best way to field Nobz but I already field 10 Nobz with Big Choppaz and am considering an entire 'Nobz as Troopz' list with 2 warboss... either that or giving the TL Shootas to the Big Choppa Boyz for some expensive Nob experimentation (they would certainly deter a lot of opposing assault units - well except those with good armour or decent AV)

While Dakkajets seem great, I am left feeling that the Blitza Bomma might work better as the need for Anti Tank is high amongst pure greenskin lists... I guess it depends on the rest of the list!

Artillery, especially Lobbaz are really really deadly now!

I base these observations on a recent game I had:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/468295.page#4624858



PS.. do Looted Wagons only move 12" when they roll a 1, or do they have to move flatout in the shooting phase as well?

PPS.. Power Klaws: Since furious charge effects the users strength, and then the weapon multiplies the users strength are they now strength 10 on the charge?

(sorry if the Klaw thing has already been covered, I have managed to read up to page 17 but my internet has been really rubbish this past couple of weeks and I haven't been able to get any further .. well, other than to post this reply today!).

Looted Wagons are only required to move as fast as possible in that movement phase.
The +1 modifier from Furious Charge is added AFTER the base user's strength has been doubled.

Can you tell me where this is in the rules?

I am happy with either result, I'm just trying to find the definitive answer!

Pg. 2 4th Paragraph in the BRB under "Multiple Modifiers"

As for the looted wagon Dont Press Dat! is done at the beginning of the movement phase and in the Ork FAQ nothing was ever mentioned about it having to move flat out during the shooting phase as well.

MechanicusOmnisWrex wrote:I have an interesting question:

Which is better Flash Gitz or Nobz with TL Shootas?

10 Nobz with Painboy and Waargh Banner is 335
10 Gitz each with Blasta upgrade and with Painboy is 325

Flash Gitz have strength 5, 24" range, a random AP and ignore cover.

Nobz have strength 4, 18" range, AP 6, and are Twin Linked.

The Nobz can use any 6's to Sniper out enemy melta guns and powerfists, and get to do lots of Look Out Splat rolls

They also can count as Troops, and get a Battlewagon as Dedicated.

To me it seems that the lower range and strength are worthy sacrifices for the gains, but am interested to hear your opinions.

I agree that this isn't the best way to field Nobz but I already field 10 Nobz with Big Choppaz and am considering an entire 'Nobz as Troopz' list with 2 warboss... either that or giving the TL Shootas to the Big Choppa Boyz for some expensive Nob experimentation (they would certainly deter a lot of opposing assault units - well except those with good armour or decent AV)

While Dakkajets seem great, I am left feeling that the Blitza Bomma might work better as the need for Anti Tank is high amongst pure greenskin lists... I guess it depends on the rest of the list!

Artillery, especially Lobbaz are really really deadly now!

I base these observations on a recent game I had:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/468295.page#4624858



PS.. do Looted Wagons only move 12" when they roll a 1, or do they have to move flatout in the shooting phase as well?

PPS.. Power Klaws: Since furious charge effects the users strength, and then the weapon multiplies the users strength are they now strength 10 on the charge?

(sorry if the Klaw thing has already been covered, I have managed to read up to page 17 but my internet has been really rubbish this past couple of weeks and I haven't been able to get any further .. well, other than to post this reply today!).

I think you might be looking at them a bit wrong. When it comes to Nobz, why would you just go with TL shootas? Thats some pretty MEH weapons for Nobz, when you can kit them out, and take PKs and do all the fun that comes with a unit of characters. If you want shooty nobz, stick em on bikes.

FlashGits arnt meant to be taken stock, because they are eh, stock. But you can make them pretty lethal in shooting. I mean, assault2 str6 24inch range with a good chance of getting ap3 or better, AND ignores cover saves now? Yes please. They are pricey still, but the Gitz are meant for some potent shooting, whiles Nobz are meant for wrecking face of pretty much anything in combat.

Gitz aren't that shabby in CC either.

It's not really where you want them to be, but they have Nob statlines

It's shocked some folk who've assaulted them to stop them from firing, only to have the assaulting unit pummeled to a man by snazzgun butts, and then for the Gitz to start up shooting again..

sirlynchmob wrote:matphat,

You missed a con. Apparently the ork FAQ changed Ghazghkull's prophet of waaagh so it no longer grants fearless to all units.

Instead of just replacing the first sentence of the 3rd paragraph, they replaced the entire paragraph removing the part about gaining fearless.

I'll add that once I confirm it. Are you sure that's not in addition as opposed to replacing it?

Alas the FAQ states to replace the third paragraph. The line in the codex regarding the army gaining fearless is part of the third paragraph.