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I'm planning on adding a Sisters allied detachment in my Guard, just because I like the idea of adding some additional variety to my list.

Right now I'm looking at...

Cannoness w/ Power Axe and Combi-Melta
12-15 Sisters of Battle with Meltagun and Heavy Flamer
Exorcist with Storm Bolter

Pretty standard stuff, I'm sure. Thanks to the changes to Rage, I've also toyed with the idea of using a squad of Repentia or a Squadron of Penitent Engines. The Repentia seem fragile, but as a Guard player I could potentially use some of my Chimeras as mobile bunkers and have the Repentia walk in behind them. Or the Repentia could camp out near my tank depot and charge in against any enemy Melta squads that head in that direction. Or possibly they're just bad, and I should avoid them.

Unless I'm missing something I don't think the Canoness can get a power axe, but a sword instead.

n0t_u wrote:Unless I'm missing something I don't think the Canoness can get a power axe, but a sword instead.

FAQ/Errata says "Change all references to "Power Sword" to "Power Weapon"

(which is odd because this FAQ/Errata entry is NOT magenta)

Amerikon wrote:

pretre wrote:Also, I have to say that sixth is finally bringing variety to sisters lists again. I used to have everything good at 1850 and I was done. Now I can pick and choose. The top sob lists may actually be different now.

Are you talking about allies? Otherwise I don't get it. I think 6th made most of our assault elements worse. So in that case it's restricted our choices (for pure SoB) that much further.

Yes and No. Here let me start up the theory-crafting. I need a 1750 list for a 6th Ed tournament on August 18th. I'm currently debating two to four lists. My problem is I can't fit even close to everything I want in them.

Pure Sisters
Celestine
Jacobus
2xRhino girls (HF/Melta and Melta/MM) in Rhinos (Searchlights)
1x 10 girls (M/MM)
2xDominion (2xFlamer, Combi, TL-MM, Dozer/Search)
Seraphim (8) w/2xHF, MB
Exorcistx3
Aegis with Quad
1749
Now I would love to add my Conclave back into that to hold the Aegis and such, but that would lose me a scorer. It is also week to fliers.

Allies
Saint Celestine
Uriah Jacobus
Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Meltagun, Multimelta, Bolt Pistol / Chainsword - Rhino
Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Meltagun, Multimelta, Bolt Pistol / Chainsword - Rhino
Dominion Squad (5) w/ 2x Flamer, Combi-melta / Chainsword - Immo (TL-MM, Dozer)
Dominion Squad (5) w/ 2x Flamer, Combi-melta / Bolt Pistol - Immo (TL-MM, Dozer)
Exorcist
Exorcist
Aegis with Icarus
Primaris Psyker
PBS (7 Psykers and 1 Overseer)
PCS w/ 2 x Plasmagun
Infantry Squad w/ Meltagun, Autocannon
Infantry Squad w/ Autocannon
Vendetta

Strong on fliers, good cheap resilent scoring behind the Aegis with Jacobus and the Blob. No Seraphim though and I'd love to make the blob power. Ugh. I could drop a Dom squad for Seras, but then I lose my initial punch. I want a second exo, but I can't get the points.

Before, I could get everything I wanted at 1850 (3 doms, 3 exos, a couple girls in rhinos, celestine and conclave). Adding anything else was suboptimal. Now, I think I could go up to 2-3k on pure pretty easy just by taking 4 troops and unlocking the secondary slots. We always had a problem with filling out the FOC too soon and now I can fix that. Not to mention that I can get anti-air, anti-deathstar, psychic from guard and cheap, resilent scoring.

TLDR: Basically, 6th fixed the problem of Sisters only being a sub-2000 army because of full FOC problems and poor elite/troop choices. Now we can go up to 3-4k easy with our two FOC and Allies and not lose efficiency or killy-ness.


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SkaerKrow wrote:I'm planning on adding a Sisters allied detachment in my Guard, just because I like the idea of adding some additional variety to my list.

Right now I'm looking at...

Cannoness w/ Power Axe and Combi-Melta
12-15 Sisters of Battle with Meltagun and Heavy Flamer
Exorcist with Storm Bolter

Pretty standard stuff, I'm sure. Thanks to the changes to Rage, I've also toyed with the idea of using a squad of Repentia or a Squadron of Penitent Engines. The Repentia seem fragile, but as a Guard player I could potentially use some of my Chimeras as mobile bunkers and have the Repentia walk in behind them. Or the Repentia could camp out near my tank depot and charge in against any enemy Melta squads that head in that direction. Or possibly they're just bad, and I should avoid them.

If you're going to add something to your guard, either take Kyrinov (6" fearless bubble) or Jacobus (FNP for a blob). Canoness is more expensive and worse. I would avoid repentia and PEs. As well, I don't know that an Exo does anything that your army doesn't already do in guard.


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Jancoran wrote:

Amerikon wrote:

Jancoran wrote:Amerikon, how is Celestine protecting the unit from small arms fire...

She can soak up shots because she has a 2+ SV and 3W. You put her out in front so all incoming shots get allocated to her first. Then you roll your saves on Celestine. You can do it one at a time so if you get a little nervous about her dying (maybe she's failed a couple of saves) you can try to "Look Out Sir!" and give the wound to a Seraphim. That works on a 2+ as well b/c she's an IC. You can also use LOS! to move high S or low AP shots onto your Seras as well. And, since she's still St C, even if she dies she might come back!

That works exactly the same way in HtH as well. As long as Celestine is in base contact with the enemy unit and alive, you can allocate their Power Weapon attacks onto her. That way she gets to use her 2+ to save the Seras. 6th Edition wound allocation is a bit ridiculous. Although I guess it is fairly "cinematic" to have your BAMF out front wading through fire.

This is not entirely accurate. I thought it was probably what you meant but I wanted to make sure. I thought maybe there was a different reason or something.

I'd take a really close look at the way multiple save types are handled and the look out sir rule. This isn't the thread for that, but the order of operations is not the same when there are multiple saves, its reversed which is important information. It is also slightly different in close combat as one model takes saves til it dies in that scenario. Anyways, onward and upward.

For Mixed Save units, allocation is before saves. So he takes a couple saves, fails 2 and then LOS the rest of the allocated wounds (before saves) to Seraphim. That works.

Jancoran wrote:

Amerikon wrote:

Jancoran wrote:Amerikon, how is Celestine protecting the unit from small arms fire...

She can soak up shots because she has a 2+ SV and 3W. You put her out in front so all incoming shots get allocated to her first. Then you roll your saves on Celestine. You can do it one at a time so if you get a little nervous about her dying (maybe she's failed a couple of saves) you can try to "Look Out Sir!" and give the wound to a Seraphim. That works on a 2+ as well b/c she's an IC. You can also use LOS! to move high S or low AP shots onto your Seras as well. And, since she's still St C, even if she dies she might come back!

That works exactly the same way in HtH as well. As long as Celestine is in base contact with the enemy unit and alive, you can allocate their Power Weapon attacks onto her. That way she gets to use her 2+ to save the Seras. 6th Edition wound allocation is a bit ridiculous. Although I guess it is fairly "cinematic" to have your BAMF out front wading through fire.

This is not entirely accurate. I thought it was probably what you meant but I wanted to make sure. I thought maybe there was a different reason or something.

I'd take a really close look at the way multiple save types are handled and the look out sir rule. This isn't the thread for that, but the order of operations is not the same when there are multiple saves, its reversed which is important information. It is also slightly different in close combat as one model takes saves til it dies in that scenario. Anyways, onward and upward.

I can see why you'd think what I said was wrong, but I'm doing it right in that example. I'm not saying that you can take saves on Celestine until she fails one and then you can try to LOS! it to a squad member. What I said was you take saves on Celestine until you start to worry about whether she's going to die then you LOS! the wounds to the ladies in the squad. The squad member would have to take the save b/c in mixed units LOS! is done before taking the armor save.

In assaults when allocating wounds, you can pretty much spread them around to anyone in base contact. It's actually different from the shooting rules which use the "take saves til it dies" mechanic. In either case, Celestine can be used to tank wounds for any unit she's joined to.

Hmm. Thinking about this one.

Saint Celestine
Uriah Jacobus
Battle Conclave (6 DCA, 4 Crusaders)
Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Meltagun, Heavy Flamer, Bolt Pistol / Chainsword - Rhino
Battle Sister Squad (10) w/ Meltagun, Multimelta, Bolt Pistol / Chainsword - Rhino
Dominion Squad (5) w/ 2x Flamer, Combi-flamer / Chainsword - Immo (TL-MM, Dozer)
Dominion Squad (5) w/ 2x Flamer, Combi-flamer / Chainsword - Immo (TL-MM, Dozer)
Seraphim (8) w/ 2x Hand Flamer, Meltabombs
Exorcist
Exorcist
Exorcist
Aegis with Quad-Gun

Place Aegis 6-8" out of Deployment zone with Uriah + Conclave on the line. Turn 1, Uriah and Crew take over the gun and dare someone to charge them, holding the center of the board.
Dominions on either side of him for scout move. Scout 12" forward. Nuke the crap out of something turn 1.
Seraphim w/ Celestine behind Uriah or DS reserve. Drop in and eliminate targets with flame.
Sisters sit behind Aegis or go forward for Objectives.
Exos do their thing.

It is soft for scoring, but everything is pretty else is pretty nasty.

Well, it seems like a good idea, but you're investing a lot of points into a quad gun camping squad (even if it's a big deterrent to charging it). But they could also just shoot the gun away, since it's a separate target isn't it?

Although I guess you do place a big hurdle in the center of the field that they daren't really come close to with anything less than terminators.

Shandara wrote:Well, it seems like a good idea, but you're investing a lot of points into a quad gun camping squad (even if it's a big deterrent to charging it). But they could also just shoot the gun away, since it's a separate target isn't it?

Although I guess you do place a big hurdle in the center of the field that they daren't really come close to with anything less than terminators.

Even terminators won't want to go there without some softening first since it will be a mix of axe/sword, maul/sword on that squad.

The idea here is as well that since the Gun is center to the board, anyone who comes within 4d6 of that point (average 14") is going to get a nasty surprise when they jump out and take an active role in things. The Aegis replaces the old Rhino delivery system and gives them alternative use other than jump out of rhino, weather a turn of shooting and then maybe assault if there's anyone near you. It also potentially puts a bullet magnet front and center which may allow Celestine or the Doms to get more work done.

pretre wrote:

Shandara wrote:Well, it seems like a good idea, but you're investing a lot of points into a quad gun camping squad (even if it's a big deterrent to charging it). But they could also just shoot the gun away, since it's a separate target isn't it?

Although I guess you do place a big hurdle in the center of the field that they daren't really come close to with anything less than terminators.

Even terminators won't want to go there without some softening first since it will be a mix of axe/sword, maul/sword on that squad.

Just so I get this right, if you have a sword and an axe, you still get the +1A for two weapons, but you can choose to get I6 AP3 hits from your sword or I1 AP2 hits with your axe? That's just super nasty.

Yes. Basically, you can kit out your squad to handle anything.

My loadout right now for the proposed list above is:
2 DCA with Axe/Sword
4 DCA with Maul/Sword
3 Crusaders with Axe
1 Crusader with Sword (Stupid model I can't figure out an easy/good way to convert)

Crusaders get axes because they always swing last anyways. Majority of mauls to take down walkers. Should be enough Axes to drop Termies there anyways.

Oh and Axes make Crusaders S4 and DCA S5. Mauls make DCA S6!! although only AP4.

Played a couple team games yesterday. Only had 1000 points to work with but I wanted to run 20 man units lead by some characters to see some wound shenanigans.

I had a 20 battle sisters with 2xmelta. Sarg with power ax/plasma pistol. Saint Celestine, Jacobus, and 2x preists. One with an eviserator and one plain for challenges I cannot win.

only units I had problems with were 2+ save ones. Termies bogged them down and a relic blade chaptain in 2+ was a pain in challenges.

Epic moment was a redeemer firing both flamestorm cannons and doing 22 str 6 ap 3 wounds. Saint Celestine was in the front, closest to the tank, and proceeded to make all 22 of her 2+ saves. It was really demoalising for the marine player. I think alot of the group soured on 6th right there.

lmao. That redeemer thing was hilarious.

He could have just moved 2 inches to the right and made it so she wasn't closest. He's on a mobile platform.

That's not 6th's fault. That's his fault.

pretre wrote:Yes. Basically, you can kit out your squad to handle anything.

My loadout right now for the proposed list above is:
2 DCA with Axe/Sword
4 DCA with Maul/Sword
3 Crusaders with Axe
1 Crusader with Sword (Stupid model I can't figure out an easy/good way to convert)

Crusaders get axes because they always swing last anyways. Majority of mauls to take down walkers. Should be enough Axes to drop Termies there anyways.

Oh and Axes make Crusaders S4 and DCA S5. Mauls make DCA S6!! although only AP4.

How exciting! Now we get to have "How many axes/mauls in my Conclave?" discussions instead of just debating whether 2,3, or 4 Crusaders is optimal!

Next test is DCA lead by Saint Celestine!

Also, what bits are you using for the mauls and axes?

Yeah his movement was the cause of the redeemers fail.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Amerikon wrote:Also, what bits are you using for the mauls and axes?

My crusaders are Sister Sigmar from Morhiem range. Add a shield and keep the hammers if you want. easy to add an ax too.

Reaper has weapon packs with axes in them too. Fantasy lines are the place to look for cool axes!

Amerikon wrote:How exciting! Now we get to have "How many axes/mauls in my Conclave?" discussions instead of just debating whether 2,3, or 4 Crusaders is optimal!

lol exactly.

Inquisitor_Dunn wrote:Next test is DCA lead by Saint Celestine!

I have had her join DCA before before charges, but now that she can soak hits... Yikes.

Amerikon wrote:Also, what bits are you using for the mauls and axes?

Flagellants. I bought a bunch for PBS in my Guard army and they are a wealth of bits. I'm using Flails for Mauls and Scythes for Axes. For my Crusaders, I'm using all the old Axes of Retribution I had from 3rd edition (which were Chaos Warrior axes, gussied up, IIRC).

Inquisitor_Dunn wrote:Yeah his movement was the cause of the redeemers fail.

I hate when people blame their own failings on the system.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
One of my favorite GW kits:

I used the fantasy chaos warrior bitz I had laying around from a different project.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat440112a&rootCatGameStyle=

Amerikon wrote:

pretre wrote:Also, I have to say that sixth is finally bringing variety to sisters lists again. I used to have everything good at 1850 and I was done. Now I can pick and choose. The top sob lists may actually be different now.

Are you talking about allies? Otherwise I don't get it. I think 6th made most of our assault elements worse. So in that case it's restricted our choices (for pure SoB) that much further.

The new rules probably hurt the Battle Conclave, but Repentia and Penitent Engines seem to be improved. I wouldn't call either "good", but they seem to suck less than before.

I think PE got worse overall. You can shuffle HP, but they still die to 3 glances, whereas before they ignored most of them.

Battle Conclaves at least have the variety of PW now.

They all took a hit though, as did most assault units.

pretre wrote:I think PE got worse overall. You can shuffle HP, but they still die to 3 glances, whereas before they ignored most of them.

Battle Conclaves at least have the variety of PW now.

They all took a hit though, as did most assault units.

They are open top. In 5th edition when they took a glance they had a 50% of dying if they were in a squad.

-2 for glance +1 for OT was only 5 and 6 to kill.

Big units of Sisters got better (if fearless....). Even my Ret squads are being filled out to 10. Quad flamer units are flat out fun. I use them to screen my units from assault if possible.

Inquisitor_Dunn wrote:Big units of Sisters got better (if fearless....)

But what do they do other than take up space? Not to mention a Fearless 20 woman BSS is over 350 points.

After much soul searching I think I finally found my sisters + GK alliance build

I'm going to put St. Celestine and Justicar Thawn somehow in a list. Probably not super optimal but maybe a 10 man terminator unit + thawn deep strike along with St. celestine + jump pack seraphim.

That'll be the heart of the build but was wondering what would you sisters players recommend as a complement units for the rest of the detatchment?

The good GK ally build that I saw was a guy locally.

He ran Coteaz + 2 Monkeys + Ablative Warriors. Gave Coteaz Divination and put them on top of a Bastion with Icarus.

Put rets inside the bastion.

Nasty nasty.

pretre wrote:The good GK ally build that I saw was a guy locally.

He ran Coteaz + 2 Monkeys + Ablative Warriors. Gave Coteaz Divination and put them on top of a Bastion with Icarus.

Put rets inside the bastion.

Nasty nasty.

so what were the retributors using? HB ? MM? That does sound like one heck of a pill box

Heavy Bolters plus 2 of the mounted heavy bolters on the Bastion (only 2 can hit any enemy at any time unless they surround you). So 6 HB that rend from the Rets.

Coteaz had 3 Lascannons, one with Skyfire. Divination gives him rerolls to hit at the least. In the case of one game, he got ignore cover. "Oh, your flyer jinks? About that..."

Speaking of 20 man Fearless BSS squads I just played my first hardcore foot test last night... and can I say it was insane!!! Im getting ready for the final part of a Nova Invitational Qualifier Tourney that is coming up in a week and I am really hard pressed not to scrap my orginal list and feild this one.. BTW I was playing a against SMs last night with 2 flyer becuase I wanted to see what they could do.

Here's the list I ran

1750 Pts -Sisters of Battle -Foot List

HQ: Arch-Confessor Kyrinov

HQ: Saint Celestine

Fast Attack: Seraphim Squad (10)
Seraphim Squad 9 Two Hand Flamers (x2)
Seraphim Superior;Eviscerator (x1) Plasma Pistol;

Name # Grp WS BS S T Wo I A Ld Save Cost
Troops: Battle Sister Squad (20)
Battle Sister Squad 19; Meltagun (x1); Multi-Melta (x1)
Sister Superior Melta Bombs; Power Axe (x1); Plasma Pistol (x1);

Troops: Battle Sister Squad (20)
Battle Sister Squad 19; Meltagun (x1); Multi-Melta (x1)
Sister Superior Melta Bombs; Power Axe (x1);


Heavy Support: Retributor Squad (5)
Retributor Squad 4 Heavy Bolter (x3); Multi-melta (x1);
Retributor Superior Melta Bombs;Storm Bolter (x1);

Heavy Support: Retributor Squad (5)
Retributor Squad 4 Heavy Bolter (x3); Multi-melta (x1);
Retributor Superior Melta Bombs;Storm Bolter (x1);

Heavy Support: Penitent Engine (3)

Elite: Repentia Squad (8)

Elite: Repentia Squad (8)


Total Cost: 1748

Model Count: 81

Tabled the guy in the bottom of the 5th. I used a V formation Celestine/ Series screening the PE's flanked but the Repentia squad on either side of the PE's. Were were playing the Big Gus missions which make my Rets and PEs scoring . Final score was out of 5 objectives I had 4. I also had max points on first blood warlord slayer (as Celestine beat the snot out of Shrike over 3 Rnds of Combat--- her having a 2+ save that doesn't disappear to PWs anymore makes her and even nastier beast than before, and getting a scoring unit in your enemies deployment zone.. My Rets were able to glance his fliers right out of the sky. And 20 sisters unloading on anything just with bolter fire was more than impressive. He fielded 10 termies which were eaten up by Repentia and the PEs. Celestine had the Warlord trait of everyone with 12 inches of her has Move through cover (which also allows me to ignore Dangerous Terrain test as my jumpers move through ruins with there packs..)

Like I said this was beast.

That's a lot of extra wargear on there. good to hear it worked out though.