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pretre wrote:Heavy Bolters plus 2 of the mounted heavy bolters on the Bastion (only 2 can hit any enemy at any time unless they surround you). So 6 HB that rend from the Rets.

Coteaz had 3 Lascannons, one with Skyfire. Divination gives him rerolls to hit at the least. In the case of one game, he got ignore cover. "Oh, your flyer jinks? About that..."

lol nice. I rarely have gotten that one so far, I keep getting something useless that I trade in for default power like scryner's gaze when I don't use any reserves. Might be useful to keep if I go the double deep strike of immortals list lol. I keep forgetting retributors are rending. Didn't even think that their turrets would be rending too.

Spidey0804 wrote:Tabled the guy in the bottom of the 5th. I used a V formation Celestine/ Series screening the PE's flanked but the Repentia squad on either side of the PE's. Were were playing the Big Gus missions which make my Rets and PEs scoring . Final score was out of 5 objectives I had 4. I also had max points on first blood warlord slayer (as Celestine beat the snot out of Shrike over 3 Rnds of Combat--- her having a 2+ save that doesn't disappear to PWs anymore makes her and even nastier beast than before, and getting a scoring unit in your enemies deployment zone.. My Rets were able to glance his fliers right out of the sky. And 20 sisters unloading on anything just with bolter fire was more than impressive. He fielded 10 termies which were eaten up by Repentia and the PEs. Celestine had the Warlord trait of everyone with 12 inches of her has Move through cover (which also allows me to ignore Dangerous Terrain test as my jumpers move through ruins with there packs..)

Like I said this was beast.

I would pay money to see a batrep with pictures. As the Foot Sisters evangelist, I think you owe us one Spidey!


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pretre wrote:The good GK ally build that I saw was a guy locally.

He ran Coteaz + 2 Monkeys + Ablative Warriors. Gave Coteaz Divination and put them on top of a Bastion with Icarus.

Put rets inside the bastion.

Nasty nasty.

Definitely mean, you'd just better hope that no one takes that building down. Neither of those units will survive the 4D6 hits they'll take when it gets popped.

I plan on running a 2k foot list this weekend for my additional 250 pnts Im going to throw in a beast of a foot Dominion squad that has either 4 flamers or 4 meltas that is all decked out. LOL!

Follow my logic on this one with the way Nova is running this year at least from what i saw in their primmer they are using the missions that make heavy scorers and fast scorers. So most of the time I should have 4 to 5 scoring units on ones that are KP the list only has 10 KP at 1750 and 11 at 2000... And most of those units I can make fearless I fi position them right,

BTW 17 bolters firing at something makes stuff, even marines fall over. And those big squads dont just sit in the back field they are marching right beside the V formation of Str 6, Str 10 power weapons that are all AP 2...

You know 3 PEs have the chance of... be it a very slim one of having 54 attacks on a charge. A 8 man Repentia squad has 33 attacks on the charge.

The army was a total blast to run I just need to practice moving that many models fast. LOL

Quick post, more to come later:
Did two games last Saturday @ 1999 + 1, Feast of Blades rules and scenarios. First game was against a mixed BA list, scenario 3. I managed a Minor Victory (would have been Major but my dice sucked). Second game was against mixed DE, scenario 1. I tabled him top of 5 for a Massacre earning all but 2 of the additional points. Will try to post more come tomorrow.

So if you Rend with your Rets on a vehicle the shot is counted as AP2.. Does that mean we get a +1 on the damage chart?

Doesn't look like it, since only on a To Wound roll of 6 do you get the AP2 effect, against vehicles (separate paragraph) you only got an extra D3 on an armour penetration roll of 6.

Evil Lamp 6 wrote:Quick post, more to come later:
Did two games last Saturday @ 1999 + 1, Feast of Blades rules and scenarios. First game was against a mixed BA list, scenario 3. I managed a Minor Victory (would have been Major but my dice sucked). Second game was against mixed DE, scenario 1. I tabled him top of 5 for a Massacre earning all but 2 of the additional points. Will try to post more come tomorrow.

Very nice!

And that's correct, rending is only ap2 vs models with wounds.

Just a check in if anyone has tested Power Lances on the DCA

Lances have almost no advantage over sword/mace.

I feel like lances should have given +1 init on the charge. They don't really fill a role for anything, and the other options make them obsolete.
Swords = good all rounders but not specialized
Axes= good 2+ killers, but slow
Mauls= good tank/MC killer, but poor AP
Lances= Shouldve been bonus init (user str and ap3?) on the charge, and user str ap4 afterwards.

I must say, that while I sold off my sisters army, I play against it on a weekly basis. So far the only additions to it have been 2 rhinos, but they haven't been fielded lately. With my tyranids, i get tabled on a regular basis, with my eldar, it's about a 50/50 ratio.

The standard list is:

Uriah
6DCA, 3 crusaders Rhino

5 10man BSS squads flamer, HB static 2 layer gunline, or in rhinos for mobility/ mobile cover

2 5man dom squads 2 flamer Immolators

10 seraphim 2 dual hand flamers

5man ret squad either 4 hvy flamers in an immolator, or 4 MM on foot

2 exorcist

facing a line of 40 bolters backed with heavy bolters and flamers to discourage the charges, has so far been nasty.
My only recourse lately has been mobility of my eldar and longer range.

Overall, they're still a competitive army, you just have to use differing tactics.

"almost no" is not the same as "no"

On the charge, the Lance is better by +1str at ap3, which could result in +1 to wound, which is unobjectional given they are one handed as well

After the first round of combat you are free to switch to your other weapon as the main profile.

If you have something like rage then the lance is worth it, as you should be aiming to assault the enemy.
Unfortunately sisters have no way to guarantee the assault. UNlike GK DCA in a raven or raider.

DCA may as well have lance and sword, though this just amounts to a safer version of furious charge.

Personally I think it is safer to assume you will not have the assault and take sword with axe, this means you will be ready for termies, you do not have much to deal with termies otherwise.

I prefer sword/axe and sword/maul.

I have shelved my for the time being as I'm running 2 squads of Repentia and 3 PEs. So far every time I have take the Foot list out I have tabled my opponent by turn 5.

pretre wrote:I prefer sword/axe and sword/maul.

I tried to think it out a little, and I really can't think of how the Maul is better or worse than the Lance. I guess the maul can hurt AV12 (but who has rear AV12?) and the Lance can put AP3 on a Wraithlord at initiative. In every other circumstance its washed out a bit b/c given the volume of attacks from a conclave S4 vs S5 is pretty minor. (I put 27 wounds on your Tac Squad instead of 21!!).

Because of that, it seems like a full sword/axe squad or a mixed sword/axe, sword/lance would be at least as good as a mixed sword/axe, sword/maul squad. What am I missing? When do you use the maul?

Amerikon wrote:

pretre wrote:I prefer sword/axe and sword/maul.

I tried to think it out a little, and I really can't think of how the Maul is better or worse than the Lance. I guess the maul can hurt AV12 (but who has rear AV12?) and the Lance can put AP3 on a Wraithlord at initiative. In every other circumstance its washed out a bit b/c given the volume of attacks from a conclave S4 vs S5 is pretty minor. (I put 27 wounds on your Tac Squad instead of 21!!).

Because of that, it seems like a full sword/axe squad or a mixed sword/axe, sword/lance would be at least as good as a mixed sword/axe, sword/maul squad. What am I missing? When do you use the maul?

Maul is for Dreadnoughts, high toughness units with a good invul but poor armor (avatar, greater daemons) and 4+ save units. Axe is for termies.


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Maul also works Necron vehicles, heavy lemans.

pretre wrote:

Amerikon wrote:

pretre wrote:I prefer sword/axe and sword/maul.

I tried to think it out a little, and I really can't think of how the Maul is better or worse than the Lance. I guess the maul can hurt AV12 (but who has rear AV12?) and the Lance can put AP3 on a Wraithlord at initiative. In every other circumstance its washed out a bit b/c given the volume of attacks from a conclave S4 vs S5 is pretty minor. (I put 27 wounds on your Tac Squad instead of 21!!).

Because of that, it seems like a full sword/axe squad or a mixed sword/axe, sword/lance would be at least as good as a mixed sword/axe, sword/maul squad. What am I missing? When do you use the maul?

Maul is for Dreadnoughts, high toughness units with a good invul but poor armor (avatar, greater daemons) and 4+ save units. Axe is for termies.


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Maul also works Necron vehicles, heavy lemans.

Dreadnoughts. Good point.

On the other things (Daemons and whatnot) I don't think it makes much difference. You might get an extra unsaved wound on the Avatar, but at the same time lances will significantly outperform mauls against big Tyranids. I can't think of any 4+ Sv infantry that isn't already getting shredded by cultists w/o the maul, either. Still, it's probably worth it to have 4 or 5 mauls since that'll give you a 50/50 shot of glancing a Dread to death on the charge, which is pretty wacky I have to say.

The Swords at S4 AP3 will kill anything with a 3+ but wraithlords on the charge anyways. The mauls are there for the one thing I always had to avoid before, Dreads, and the Axes take care of 2+. My crusaders carry axes (except one I can't convert, damn him). Which helps out on the AP2 end, as well.


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Wraithguard

Swords: 40/9 hit, 40/56 wound/kill.
Mauls: 40/9 hit, 40/18 wound, 40/56 kill.
Axe: 40/9 hit, 40/27 wound/kill.

Amusing. I'm still doing a bunch of thoughtmath on different units, but I defnitely like the variety. I just finished converting my DCA/Crusaders to the new weapons... YAY.

Amerikon wrote:

Inquisitor_Dunn wrote:Big units of Sisters got better (if fearless....)

But what do they do other than take up space? Not to mention a Fearless 20 woman BSS is over 350 points.

With so many missions being objectives now, taking up space and cutting the board off can be a good thing. IE the immovable object stategy.

Gotta remember that fearless from an IC goes unit wide now. Very fun. Had a guard player battle brother with some marines and slam an HQ into the unit makig the blob unbreakable...

It wasnt pretty.

A few things I have noted with my old assaulty list:

- It doesn't work. Transports are unreliable and ultimately just slow assault units down, as far as I can see. Had to change it up in a big way - no rhino at all, for a start.

-Penitent Engines work better, but keep in squads of three to play with Hull points. Long range shooting is more important, so as much as I love them I dropped from using 3 units of 2 to the one unit of three. Still rip it up.

-Celestine heading a flying V of Seraphim is the new Repentia Rhino. I've been using her to guide in two units of Repentia since with fleet they can keep up, and if I am hitting something with really nasty overwatch Celestine and co. can assault, then my half naked Repentia can scream in without dropping to overwatch.

Conclaves are ultimately too slow for this, unfortunately.

-As much as I love the idea of a rending quad gun, I like being able to throw fire down the board from multiple units better. So I use one Exorcist, One Retributer squad, and one basic SoB squad in a quad gun Bastion for long range support. Rets and Quad can both take aim at flyers (Immo too if needed too).

-Inspired by Spidey, I switched to Kyrinov and I am loving it. I use min. sized SoB squads still and keep them away from combat, but people find it seriously demoralizing to throw a ton of fire into my army, kill a bunch of girls, and realize they are all fearless and still happy as can be on their objective. They guard objectives and provide midfield fire support.

-I'm only running one Immolator at the moment - between low AV, hull points, the nerf to melta glances, and the Doms being stuck if the vehicle blows or moves more than 6", they have not been doing nearly as much. I might bring another one back in, but for now it's become a specialty/distraction unit in my army. Might just have had a run of bad luck with them?

- Kyrinov's conclave is an anemic, small counter assault sized thing vs the beasts I would throw down the field before. Without fleet and with Rhino's being useless, I just have no way to threaten with them outside of my own deployment, so I use the points elsewhere.

- Long range ordinance shooting scares me. It scares my troops, my AV11, my characters - it is scary. A wall of AV14 Leman Russ is likewise scary. Doubled up IG heavy support is a terrible, terrible thing.

I have not been tabling opponents with any regularity, but I have certainly been putting them on the defensive, and eating large swaths of army.

Honestly, I feel pretty cheesy using Celestine that way. I know it's what everyone is doing with their 2+ save characters, but it still feels pretty dirty, and I'm not sure if it is the kind of thing I should pull in a friendly game or no.

What's the consensus forming in other folks part of the woods? Is using a 2+ save to guard multiple units dirty pool, or just the way 6th is played?

It is the way 6th is played. It took me 3 turns to chew through a unit of BT with 20 gauss flayers and 10 gauss blasters all double tapping b/c of some wierd grand spirit champion or something like that. The new wound allocation cna be cheesed way to easy and alot of people are doing it.

Hollowman wrote:
A few things I have noted with my old assaulty list:

- It doesn't work. Transports are unreliable and ultimately just slow assault units down, as far as I can see. Had to change it up in a big way - no rhino at all, for a start.

-Penitent Engines work better, but keep in squads of three to play with Hull points. Long range shooting is more important, so as much as I love them I dropped from using 3 units of 2 to the one unit of three. Still rip it up.

-Celestine heading a flying V of Seraphim is the new Repentia Rhino. I've been using her to guide in two units of Repentia since with fleet they can keep up, and if I am hitting something with really nasty overwatch Celestine and co. can assault, then my half naked Repentia can scream in without dropping to overwatch.

Conclaves are ultimately too slow for this, unfortunately.

-As much as I love the idea of a rending quad gun, I like being able to throw fire down the board from multiple units better. So I use one Exorcist, One Retributer squad, and one basic SoB squad in a quad gun Bastion for long range support. Rets and Quad can both take aim at flyers (Immo too if needed too).

-Inspired by Spidey, I switched to Kyrinov and I am loving it. I use min. sized SoB squads still and keep them away from combat, but people find it seriously demoralizing to throw a ton of fire into my army, kill a bunch of girls, and realize they are all fearless and still happy as can be on their objective. They guard objectives and provide midfield fire support.

-I'm only running one Immolator at the moment - between low AV, hull points, the nerf to melta glances, and the Doms being stuck if the vehicle blows or moves more than 6", they have not been doing nearly as much. I might bring another one back in, but for now it's become a specialty/distraction unit in my army. Might just have had a run of bad luck with them?

- Kyrinov's conclave is an anemic, small counter assault sized thing vs the beasts I would throw down the field before. Without fleet and with Rhino's being useless, I just have no way to threaten with them outside of my own deployment, so I use the points elsewhere.

- Long range ordinance shooting scares me. It scares my troops, my AV11, my characters - it is scary. A wall of AV14 Leman Russ is likewise scary. Doubled up IG heavy support is a terrible, terrible thing.

I have not been tabling opponents with any regularity, but I have certainly been putting them on the defensive, and eating large swaths of army.

Honestly, I feel pretty cheesy using Celestine that way. I know it's what everyone is doing with their 2+ save characters, but it still feels pretty dirty, and I'm not sure if it is the kind of thing I should pull in a friendly game or no.

What's the consensus forming in other folks part of the woods? Is using a 2+ save to guard multiple units dirty pool, or just the way 6th is played?

Sounds all but identical to what Im running currently and no I dont feel cheesy about the 2+ thing seeing we only have 1 model that can do it. LOL Most of the time I have found that a 10 man Seraphim squad will wipe anything that it shoots at or only leave it with 1 or 2 models ( I run hand flamers X2 with mine). And I have them ingnore anything thing with a 2+ in it thats what the Repentia and PEs are for.

I run 2 Ret squads though no Vehicles other than the PEs.

I agree.
Pentient Engines are really nice right now.

Spidey0804 wrote:

Sounds all but identical to what Im running currently and no I dont feel cheesy about the 2+ thing seeing we only have 1 model that can do it. LOL Most of the time I have found that a 10 man Seraphim squad will wipe anything that it shoots at or only leave it with 1 or 2 models ( I run hand flamers X2 with mine). And I have them ingnore anything thing with a 2+ in it thats what the Repentia and PEs are for.

I run 2 Ret squads though no Vehicles other than the PEs.

It's pretty close, and I definitely took inspiration from you In a few places - specifically Kyrinov, and your mention of the V formation. I'd dropped my rhinos and was using seraphim to screen, but in a less organized "put them in front and hope the enemy doesn't shoot anything behind them" way. The V guarding my reps works well, though I run my PE a good bit behind (or entirely separate) depending on who I'm fighting. I don't like being too bunched up for templates. But really, the main changes from my 5th list were dropping PE, rhino, and conclaves to add more long range shooting.

The Exorcist, Quad Bastion and Immolator all help split up AT fire, which is still nice for my PE, and each fills a role just different enough that I want to keep them around - the great thing about my Ret squad is that they can provide support for any of the other long range/AT roles if need be.

Fun Misstep Facts: For a moment there, I thought it would be worth it to dust off my arco's! With more attacks, higher strength, and DCA becoming ap3, Arco would be the best at AT assault, killing TEQ (weight of attacks/more wounds), and against hordes as always! Then I realized DCA could take any mix of weapons and use the best each round, and I sighed and put my Arco back on the shelf. Poor guys.

Spidey0804 wrote:

Sounds all but identical to what Im running currently and no I dont feel cheesy about the 2+ thing seeing we only have 1 model that can do it. LOL Most of the time I have found that a 10 man Seraphim squad will wipe anything that it shoots at or only leave it with 1 or 2 models ( I run hand flamers X2 with mine). And I have them ingnore anything thing with a 2+ in it thats what the Repentia and PEs are for.

I run 2 Ret squads though no Vehicles other than the PEs.

Spidey, with no other vehicles how do you keeps your PEs alive? Even with hull point trickery I still find them to go down very, very quickly with no other targets for any autocannon or (worse) lascannons I face. Cover, even 4+ from an Aegis line, only goes so far. Now, while they are being shot at the rest of my army is able to be plenty killy, but I feel like if the PEs are doing nothing but soaking fire from the rest of my army... why use them instead of 2 exorcists, which can at least shoot back as they are shot at? I am curious how you use your PEs, and how you keep them alive.

Hollowman, please feel free to chime in as well!

I've had some moderate success with PEs in a 2 Exorcist, 4 rhino (2 BSS, 2 Dominions) list - but am very curious how they manage to make it across the table in a foot list when they are the only viable target for your opponent's AT.

quiestdeus wrote:
Hollowman, please feel free to chime in as well!

I've had some moderate success with PEs in a 2 Exorcist, 4 rhino (2 BSS, 2 Dominions) list - but am very curious how they manage to make it across the table in a foot list when they are the only viable target for your opponent's AT.

Well, I do use vehicles, both now and back in my old PE heavy list, so I don't have many tricks for keeping them alive in a foot list. it does sound harder.

Anyways, when running PE as I see it my opponent has three options…

Option 1 - throw a lot of good AT into PE, probably leaving Celestine, two AP1 tanks and a heavy quad gun sitting pretty. I'm even happier if they drop blast templates on my PE, which would otherwise kill a bunch of my girls. Not good for my PE, but often not a bad tradeoff when it comes down to it.

Option 2 - ignore my PE, allowing them to march up the board and prepare to flamer/crump something. I'm fine with that.

Option 3 - Try to suppress multiple units including PE, which generally leaves all of them combat ready at the end of the turn (especially with suppression being harder now). Almost always works out in my favor.

Each round PE are alive, they get to pick one.

As for how I try to keep my PE alive, I basically have two tricks. The first is forcibly reminding my opponent he has other things to shoot at. This means good strategy, backed by good luck… picking the best target for my Immo to melt, my exorcist to blow, my quad gun to target. Picking the right unit to push Celestine and her three assault units towards with alarming speed. Working out what other threats will get under my opponents skin the most. If one or two of those really come through, or just unnerve my opponent, it is surprisingly easy to get him/her to ignore the walkers that have not done anything yet in favor of other targets.

My second trick is just disruption. I have some pretty good tricks in the list to wreck the enemy’s plans. If the PE are ignored, or survive a round or two, I can often disrupt their AT or change its focus enough to allow PE to move forward relatively unmolested. I can bring down flyers pretty well, I can drive Celestine and co. right down the middle, splitting reps and seraphim off to hold up or break units that would otherwise be targeting PE. Exorcists and Immo’s are not really reliable, but between them I can often distract, kill or suppress their best AT armor. Basically this is just my first trick with a steel glove – I force them to choose who to shoot while simultaneously knocking out as much shooting as I can and ramping up the threat level presented by all my other units.

The weaknesses of the PE often help me, honestly. A good player knows they can’t do anything until in assault range, so they shoot elsewhere for one or two rounds hoping to kill something that is already effective. But my assault units are fast enough, and my ranged AT good enough (though admittedly not great) that by the time it makes sense to shoot at PE, it has become much, much harder to shoot them; and there are multiple other targets that would be really nice to shoot at as well.

All that said, I expect my PE to die. They are not there to hold objectives in the last round. My assault elements are there to cripple and push back my enemy, allowing my fearless SoB squads to enter the last rounds largely unmolested and facing an enemy that is now hopefully much smaller, a good distance away and unable to bring enough to bear to win the game. if my PE are alive at the end, great, but I didn't bring them expecting to see them at the afterparty.

^ QFT that is exactly what you need to do... Screening your assault element with the fast moving Seraphims is really key to this. If the screen disappears to early it leaves all your element exposed. People fear Celestine for some reason LOL seeing her at the tip of a V puts a lot of players on their heels right out the gate.

You need to keep you BSS squads close to each other so the fearless bubble hits both of them as they are advancing shooting 17 bolters each turn from each squad.

I am really starting to look at Priests now for my bigger sister squads just so I can have extra ICs to feed into challenges if I need to. This list only works with concentrated fire support from all elements that allows your assault element to advance mid-field and they switch to a counter assault Roles.

PEs will act as your fire magnets for a round or 2. With the way Nova sets up the terrain I can ussally deny line of fire to them which is really what you want to do. After you get them to mid feild you have the solid 24 to 30' threat bubble that no one in there right mind would step into.

While people freak out over them, 3 units will have just hit them in next round hand to hand. A unit of Seraphim, and 2 units of Repentia just mauling anything they get there hands on. 2 Repentia can take out a 5 man Terminator squad, or make it completely combat ineffective. Let alone if you hit a squad at full strength 1 Repentia squad can take out 2 terminator squads 9 times out of 10.

Timing your assaults are the really the key to mastering the foot list.


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Keeping you Mistress at the front of the squad help differ shots coming into the squad.

I played a game against a Sanguinary Guard list last night. Basically Dante, Mephiston, 3 units of Sang Guard, and a Vindicator. With basically 20 models at 1500 pts, I should've been able to roll them, but Mephiston just wrecked me.

He was able to give the Sang Guard "Invisibility" for a 4+ cover save in the open. It was really tough. With 4+ for the guys in the open and then using that unit or terrain to give cover to the others, there were entire shooting phases where I failed to cause any casualties! He may have been a little above average with the cover saves, but our complete lack of psychic defense is the root of the problem more than hot dice.

Has anyone else been rolled by psykers in the new edition? Other than "try to kill them first" (which, trust me, I really tried to do) what can we do to stop them?