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Shouldn't you have been able to just stop flamers on the sang? So far I haven't been super rolled by psyker but we will see.

Well that's the problem with Sang Guard. 2+/FNP against your bolters and flamers, and then against the gobs of S8 AP1 goodness they're taking 4+ cover. Celestine's downgrade to AP3 was also pretty frustrating. I don't think she caused a single wound all game.

I've never had a problem with psykers in the past, mainly because their powers just were never that impactful. I guess I'm just alarmed with the combination of the potency of the new powers with my complete and utter lack of defense against them.

Well step one is to position Celestine next to the priest / novitiate and start burning. Once he's down, it's gravy. But yeah, nasty. All the melta you should BR packing should help. Even with a 4+ they die and you prob outnumber 3-4 to one. I guess I'll see if I run up against it.

Anyone thought of a counter charge block or spearhead or enforced flank of two BA assault units in landraiders. It sounds weird but sort of exciting. I very much like the thought of a serious tarpit and midfield firing raiders, less concerned with nutty rushes than finding clever positioning in this list.

well I've had some good success with sisters. I took 5th at the conflict GT with them and 3rd at the colonial GT...

I won't be dropping the codex anytime soon but allies have allowed me to make up for some weakness in the dex...

Now... this is a play test list built to match my style on the table... Let me know if you spot the various tactics/tricks/funny things this list can do.... or if there are any 6th top tier lists i should get some games against to learn how to play around them.

HQ
St Celestine
Blood angels Librarian with shield and fear

Elite
Furioso Librarian with drop pod, blood lance, and fear the darkness

Troops
10 sisters, 2 meltas, vet with combi flamer, rhino with dozers
10 sisters, 2 meltas, vet with combi flamer, rhino with dozers
5 scouts with sniper Rifles, camo cloaks, missile
5 assault marines in las/twin plas razor, flamer

Fast
5 dominions, 2 meltas, combi melta, Rhino with dozers
5 dominions, 2 meltas, combi melta, Rhino with dozers
5 dominions, 2 meltas, combi melta, Rhino with dozers

Heavy
exorcist
exorcist
exorcist

Fort
Aegis defense line with quad gun

Now i know my troops section is weak... but it hasn't been much of an issue for me in the past.

What's the thoughts on a Condemnor Boltgun? I know a single shot anti-psyker weapon isn't exactly appealing, (and forcing perils of the warp is most humorous when Commisars are involved,) but the fact that every superior in our army list is capable of having them and it being our only defense against psykers.... well aside from shooting them harder.... it has to have some merit possibly?

Or do the sisters not care about the effects of psykers?

Still too expensive, everyone gets a save from it. If they fail then the perils part comes in. If it were more than one use, maybe.

Not to mention you can just LoS on a non psyker.

Seems like the Sisters, if anyone, would have some dedicated anti-psyker units or wargear. It's one of their main duties to hunt down rogue psykers and unsanctioned witches for goodness sake.

Faith is our shield.

pretre wrote:Faith is our shield.

Of course, but what is our weapon? We abhor the witch, suffer not the witch to live, but don't exactly have anything to take on the witch, aside from things we use on non-witches, heretics and the like.

Again it seems those who wrote the dex don't like/know/or care about their fluff!
Ltd anti psycher options
3 spec characters only one a sister
Compare acts of faith to GK psychic powers and tell me they are compariable!
20 pts for heavy flamers? WTF!!!
Repressors have "assault ramps" but aren't assault vehicles?
No option to assault out of a vehicle.
only aegis defence line for anti-flyer well lots in that boat I guess.
I know allies can fill gaps but I like playing the army I came with.

Allies the best sales booster GW ever conceived.

I took the Sisters to a tournament yesterday; it wasn't worth the trouble of a real battle report so I'll just post a little run-down here.

My list included:
Celestine
5 Celestians, flamers, combi-flamer; melta-lator
3x10 Battle Sisters, heavy flamer, melta gun, 2 with combi-meltas
2x5 Dominions, flamers, combi-flamer; melta-lator
9 Seraphim, 2 hand flamers
3 Exorcists
All of the Superiors had melta-bombs.

First game was against Venom-spam Dark Eldar with Eldar allies. He went first - that was pretty much it - game over. Celestine decided not to come back for turn five; I guess she didn't want to be alone. The other SoB player in the tournament played the same guy round two. It was worse; SoB guy conceded turn two.

Second game was against a really pleasant young man learning to play with a deeply, uncompetitive Necron army. It still came down to the last turn to get a pretty convincing win. Wraiths are kinda tough to get rid of.

Third game was versus IG with a magic, five-shot Manticore. The mission was like Big Guns with Vanguard deployment, and he destroyed an objective-holding Exorcist with the fifth volley from the Manticore. I didn't remember until later that Manticores don't get five shots, only four. An appropriately sucky way to end a suck fest.

I didn't stay for round four; it's 130-odd miles from home.

well, I for one would like to have seen more of what happened. I know we have the luxury of laughing at TEQ armies, but Now I'm interested in what exactly happened in those games.

pzbw7z wrote:First game was against Venom-spam Dark Eldar with Eldar allies. He went first - that was pretty much it - game over. Celestine decided not to come back for turn five; I guess she didn't want to be alone. The other SoB player in the tournament played the same guy round two. It was worse; SoB guy conceded turn two

This was my experience as well. I faced a Venom Spam army in the last 5E tournament I played in and it was ROUGH. Even with good cover, he was able to take out all of my ranged shooting on turn one. After that it was just watching my Rhinos get popped and then Vect and his wytches just cleaned up whatever spilled out. It had been a very long time since I had been routed like that.

Amerikon wrote:

pzbw7z wrote:First game was against Venom-spam Dark Eldar with Eldar allies. He went first - that was pretty much it - game over. Celestine decided not to come back for turn five; I guess she didn't want to be alone. The other SoB player in the tournament played the same guy round two. It was worse; SoB guy conceded turn two

This was my experience as well. I faced a Venom Spam army in the last 5E tournament I played in and it was ROUGH. Even with good cover, he was able to take out all of my ranged shooting on turn one. After that it was just watching my Rhinos get popped and then Vect and his wytches just cleaned up whatever spilled out. It had been a very long time since I had been routed like that.

If you haven't experienced it with the Eldar allies. . . well, it's just not the same!

A squadron of War Walkers and a squadron of Vypers makes it just SO much more fun! Picking up Celestine and an entire squad of Seraphim in one shooting phase. . . priceless!

Tagboard Wizard wrote:

pretre wrote:Faith is our shield.

Of course, but what is our weapon? We abhor the witch, suffer not the witch to live, but don't exactly have anything to take on the witch, aside from things we use on non-witches, heretics and the like.

Psykers die the same as everyone else burning and screaming.

As for venom spam, I haven't played against it with my sob, but I guess we can't be good against everyone.

Venom Spam vs infantry armies is about as fun as running Nid-Zilla vs Brotherhood Banner GK's. The fight is decided long before the actual game. I feel for you my friend (one of the reasons I started DE ). On the topic of wraiths, you have not seen their true power until you have faced a full unit of them with Whip Coils with a destroyer lord. 2+ armor, with those sneaky mss to go with it means you are either accepting a challenge you are sure to lose no matter what, or you decline and the lord gets to run rampant through your I-1 unit. Not to mention how rough wraiths are themselves.

For those who dont know the BHB vs Nid-Zilla, it is facing down a monstorus creature based list with auto pass force weapons. Those big 300 point bugs get shreded by 220 points of gk without a chance to stand up and fight.

Anyone think our units should at least have psyk-out grenades? I also feel like giving out Sister Superiors condemers automatically wouldn't be to far either.

I got tabled Thursday night by a 1750 Nid list that had 2 flyinh hives 3 Teragons doom and 3 Zoees. Yes I think this edition is going to be dubbed the Flying Psykers edition.

I think it is a little early to call it. I'd like to hear more of a battle report before I just say 'Oh, he played X list...? That's why you lost.'

I'll add to the litany of woes. I got (nearly) tabled by a Daemon "Flying Circus" list.

Admittedly I was playing a silly all foot army (with a Canoness!) but my big takeaway was that if your opponent passes his Grounding tests, there's just not much you can do. At that point, he's more or less free to dictate the game.

The commonly heard "Well if you can hit them three times they'll probably fail a test" line is valid, but it's still a 3+ roll. How many times have you passed 5 or 6 armor saves? It's not that uncommon. I took the tactic of trying to shoot Fateweaver with my BSSs to get him to land so that I could then hit him with the big guns. Well, when he doesn't land, what do you do? My Exorcists have to either waste shots against the flyers or go after the lower priority targets.

Overall I was able to wipe out all of his troops but all I had at the end of the game was 3 women in combat with a couple of Bloodcrushers desperately trying to hold an objective. I think that my mech'd up list would do better against them, but again, if you can't put the flyers on the ground, you're left flailing against them or just ignoring them and going after the softer targets. Neither of those seem to be winning options.


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Oh, those three ladies holding the objective were freaking rockstars in that game. Their "mysterious objective" was a Skyfire Nexus, so they were the only unit that could hit anything. (Although with bolters and a single multi-melta they didn't do much.) But they did manage to wipe out a unit of 7 Bloodletters in overwatch and then with a turn of shooting and another clutch overwatch performance they killed 3 (of 5) Bloodcrushers. They were pretty amazing.

Okay, before this turns into a 'Woe is me' fest...

Keep in mind that we are playing a new version of the game and a lot of these stories of woe include some pretty out there outliers.

Yes, you will play games where you get screwed by the dice.
Yes, you will get bad match-ups.
Yes, you will play players who tromp you soundly.

That's part of a competitive wargame.

@Amerikon: So 'wacky' list... Did you take an Icarus or Quad? I think an Aegis or Bastion is pretty much required at this point. And almost getting tabled when playing a silly list against a normal list is kind of what happens.

pretre wrote:Okay, before this turns into a 'Woe is me' fest...

Let's be clear, I wasn't trying to be all doom and gloom, just reporting an experience. I think it's a legitimate concern and a better response might be a discussion of ways to deal with FMCs. Is our only option "shoot at them and hope they fall down"? If so then it's quite likely that we'll all play games where we're at the mercy of a few 3+ rolls. (I guess that's not really a new development, but it feels more prevalent in the new edition.)

pretre wrote:@Amerikon: So 'wacky' list... Did you take an Icarus or Quad? I think an Aegis or Bastion is pretty much required at this point. And almost getting tabled when playing a silly list against a normal list is kind of what happens.

I use an Aegis in my tournament list and it would certainly have helped in this game, but again my concern is less that I was rolled but more that the "shoot it until it falls" technique was a complete failure. That makes me wonder, should I have tried to ignore the flyers and gone after them only when my units had no other legitimate targets? This is effectively what happened minus the whole "shooting other targets" part. If you can't take down the Flyers, maybe that's a good plan.

It's not really relevant but here's what I took:

Yeah, I think that (short of key units) shooting at everything else is probably the way to go. You know, give them the monolith treatment.

Wow. That is a silly list.

HEAVY
Exorcist
Exorcist
5x Retributors, 4x Heavy Bolters

This plus the Ageis is going to be my heavy selection for Nova this year

If you're going Rets, I might go bastion instead of Aegis. 2 Extra rending HBs is pretty nasty.

You can put the quad on the roof still if you want.

pretre wrote:If you're going Rets, I might go bastion instead of Aegis. 2 Extra rending HBs is pretty nasty.

You can put the quad on the roof still if you want.

So how does this work? I haven't really looked much at the rules for the Bastion.

Can the Rets shoot their HBs as well as the ones on the Bastion or do you have to buy extra bodies to (wo)man them?

If you put the Quad Gun up top, do the Rets have to be on the battlement to shoot it, or can they be inside of the Bastion? Similarly, can they fire the Quad Gun as well as their weapons or would you need another body still?

A couple things. You need extra bodies for the emplaced HBs, which are fired from inside. Depending on how you setup the bastion, you have between 0 and 3 fire points per side.

The bottom has one fire point on each side (except the side with the door).

The top has two sides with two fire points and two sides with none.

All four sides have emplaced heavy bolters.

The way I set mine up is to have the two two FP top sides adjacent to each other and above bottoms with one FP on them. This (if positioned correctly) allows 6 fire points and 2 HB to be fired at most targets.

The quad gun on the top is fired by a separate unit, so in this case, I would slap the rets inside and a sisters squad (Or allied unit) on top.


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Oh and the Heavy Bolters are instead of your normal guns. So you would need two bodies without HB to fire them.

What's your experience in-game with the Bastion?

It seems like it could be strong, but then at the same time a MM Land Speeder, a podding anything, lance weapons, etc could potentially one-shot (or even 3 or 4 shot) a whole lot of stuff. (I'm ballparking close to 400pts for the Rets, the BSS, and the Bastion + Gun.)

I haven't had a chance to run one yet. A friend of mine has been running it with Rets and Coteaz and has had a lot of luck with it.

Buildings, in general, are a big gamble, but have a lot of benefts.


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Keep in mind that glances are largely useless against them, as well.