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Janthkin wrote:

Death By Monkeys wrote:Here's my concern: how long did it take Ork players to look at their new list and pare away all the extraneous stuff to give us 3 powerlists (Nob Bikers, Foot-Slogging Horde, Battlewagon/Trukk Spam)? Not long. Sure, GW's giving us some monster list of tanks that we'll be able to use and all these other cool goodies. How long will it take before we see all the chaff stripped away and we're down to a few powerbuilds? Not long, I figure.

If the IG get three powerbuilds with as much diversity in tactics & unit selection as the three ork archetypes you highlight, I will be THRILLED. While "Nob bikers" is a fairly narrow build, both of the other archetypes you mention have quite a bit of room for diversity of selection and playstyle.

Guard will always equal guns; it's already narrower in overall scope than the ork codex. It is nice to see this much diversity of firepower, as it increases the probability that there will be several completely different competitive builds.

Most armies boil down to 2 or three viable tournament builds at max. Thats nothing new.

There are always us players who build lists because they're cool, fun, fluffy, or they just want to take 3 friggin' ICBMS in one firefight (I LOVE YOU DEATHSTRIKE!!!)

There's always going to be the one or two 'powerlists', but there's not always going to be the guarantee of getting options to do basically whatever you want with your army. Guard look to be getting pretty much limitless variation.

And now it seems that even the fluffy lists will be somewhat competitive. Or at least you won't be crippling your army by taking certain choices (like insanely overpriced Chimeras or Commissars, or nearly useless Ogryn).

But seriously. ICBMs. /GLEE!

Thanks Kid Kyoto for getting a pic of the PDF on Dakka!

Wow, looks like something the Orks will be deathly afraid of, points costs pending of course.

And yeah, once the book is out expect it to all be peeled away and have the power lists be obvious pretty quick. It didn't take us very long to figure out "Shoota's + Lootas" when the first Ork leak came out in text form over on the-waaagh.

One thing I was surprised is that it appears Ratlings will have regular sniper rifles after all. I was expecting something else when I saw the guns the models were holding (which look pretty distinctive and not at all like previous Imperial Sniper Rifles).

Death By Monkeys wrote:I was kind of scornful of Agamemnon2's pessimistic attitude at some of the earlier rumors, but now I'm afraid I've got it. Yeah, I mocked the possibility of 22 tanks and I mocked the Spanish rumors. Because it just seemed way too OTT.

It's ironic because I've had to eat record amounts of crow this rumor season. The Spanish list looks to be word-for-word accurate, including penal legionnaires and a million new tank types. Now, I'm still not ecstatic here (Ogryns losing two points of Ld is huge, for example), but I'm feeling pretty darn good about things (especially if the new Codex lets me put a Commissar into an Ogryn squad).

I'm most amazed by how many UNMADE models are in this book. I mean, how long has it been since half the models that have entries had no models at all? Seriously. 3rd edition?

I'm really excited about this. I haven't been excited about a codex in a long, long time so the thought of all the goodies that my Renegade IG will get to use is making me all warm and fuzzy inside.

And now I'm looking at the Death Korps models and wondering if it will be affordable to make a Mech DK force. Fewer line infantry to buy and I'd get to use all the new, fun tanks!

Uh oh, I've caught IG fever!!

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I didn't see points costs? Were they there? Hard to say whats hot or not without them

ShumaGorath wrote:Most armies boil down to 2 or three viable tournament builds at max. Thats nothing new.

True - and frankly, prior to this Guard had no viable tournament builds. Or at least none worth a damn.

Scottywan82 wrote:I'm most amazed by how many UNMADE models are in this book. I mean, how long has it been since half the models that have entries had no models at all? Seriously. 3rd edition?

I think that may be another problem I'm having with all this. I'm currently just a fledgling IG player, coming into the list at the end of its 3E Codex lifespan. Consequently, I don't have the Guard collection that a lot of other folks do, so I'm picky about how I build and arm my models. Frankly, even if I did have a big selection, with some of these new choices, I wouldn't have a choice but to either:

a) Buy a new model and convert it to be something like a Deathstrike or a Devil Dog, or
b) Tear up one of my older models to convert it to be something that's unreleased.

I just finished one Hellhound conversion and I'm halfway through my second. Now I'm seeing that I'm either going to need to wait for the new Hellhound/Devil Dog/Bane Wolf kit to come out and buy it, buy another Chimera Chassis and convert yet another Hellhound analog, or...hmmm...I suppose I could magnetize the fuel tank on the back and just build another turret...beh.

No one ever said that playing guard was easy on your wallet or your modeling and painting schedule, huh.

Scottywan82 wrote:I'm most amazed by how many UNMADE models are in this book. I mean, how long has it been since half the models that have entries had no models at all? Seriously. 3rd edition?

That's certainly true, but the converter in me is already chomping at the bit. I already own a Griffon, Hydra and two Medusas, all converted from various plastic bits, and it's only a matter of time before inspiration strikes me to build a Colossus, Manticore or Deathstrike.

Scottywan82 wrote:I'm most amazed by how many UNMADE models are in this book. I mean, how long has it been since half the models that have entries had no models at all? Seriously. 3rd edition?

This might be the final nail in the "Every Entry in the Codex Gets A Model" coffin...

I hope not! They say the next 18 months wil be BIG for IG. They will need to be. There will have to be one wave per month at this rate. Either that or the first wave is a LOT bigger than anyone realizes. But I think JJ already killed that at the open day...

The hellhound/devildog/banewolf are all included in the updated chimera.

Can someone help me out with this question:

Will we somehow be able to field Stormtoopers as 'troops'?

I've got a lot of them, and I'd love to be able to do so, preferably with Valkyries...

I assume the "Fusil à pompe" is a shotgun. Which is a crying shame, because it still has the same bad stats. At least Marines got a S4 shotgun. With AP3 hellguns, stormtroopers won't even consider this option. And here I was hoping they finally put Arbites in the book *sigh*

Wasn't there also a lot of buzz about Inquisitors in this book?

we can see some of what Mkoll was talking about here.. in his defense, he was basing his rumors off of a much earlier version. Probably some early playtest codex or something.

I like the sheer variety of everything but at the same time it's almost a little crazy. I do hope when they release the new tank kits the will be easily magnetizable so that all it will take is a simple barrel swap to get the tank you want. I dunno why they just invented the punisher tank though, instead of just using vulcan megabolters. And why have a nova cannon on a tank? isn't that kind of a giant space ship kind of weapon?

Scottywan82 wrote:I hope not! They say the next 18 months wil be BIG for IG. They will need to be. There will have to be one wave per month at this rate. Either that or the first wave is a LOT bigger than anyone realizes. But I think JJ already killed that at the open day...

The really nice thing is that IG use STCs, based on a whopping total of 3 vehicles: the Russ chasis, the Chimera chasis, and the Sentinel chasis. We've gotten very strong indications of a "recut" of both the Russ and Chimera (which are second-edition plastics, remember!), and fitting most of the new vehicles onto those, plus an accessory sprue or two, is sufficient.

It'll probably be sold as standard Russ box, heavy Russ box, Chimera & Hellhound variant box, and artillery box.

Alpharius wrote:Can someone help me out with this question:

Will we somehow be able to field Stormtoopers as 'troops'?

I've got a lot of them, and I'd love to be able to do so, preferably with Valkyries...

The rumor is yes, either by commander upgrade or by special character. Seeing as Lukas Bastionne is apparently a squad sgt special character, it appears to be through upgrading your commander.

Janthkin wrote:
The really nice thing is that IG use STCs, based on a whopping total of 3 vehicles: the Russ chasis, the Chimera chasis, and the Sentinel chasis. We've gotten very strong indications of a "recut" of both the Russ and Chimera (which are second-edition plastics, remember!), and fitting most of the new vehicles onto those, plus an accessory sprue or two, is sufficient.

It'll probably be sold as standard Russ box, heavy Russ box, Chimera & Hellhound variant box, and artillery box.

IG vehicles are not to the best of my knowledge STCs.

The confirmed rumor is that the Russ' in the initial Leman Russ are Battle Tank, Demolisher, Vanquisher, Exterminator.
Chimera and hellhound variants are together.


Alot is up in the air for the rest:
Leman Russ Kit 2 - Punisher, Executioner, Eradicator... possibly done as direct order sprues.
Basilisk/Griffon/Medusa/Colossus
Hydra/Manticore
Deathstrike

Scottywan82 wrote:I'm most amazed by how many UNMADE models are in this book. I mean, how long has it been since half the models that have entries had no models at all? Seriously. 3rd edition?

Yeah I was wondering about this... I've had some thoughts.

This may be indictive of GW Studio's closer relationship with Forge World. Could GW be relying on Forge World to supply most of these tanks? As it stands, that's the only way to get some of the models, and alot of the new stuff definitely seems very "Forge World-esque". (Deathstrike, most obvious amongst these).

Though I thought they were trying to move away from FW being the only outlet for certain models. Or maybe GW has accepted that Forge World is basically "Imperial Guard+", and good Guardsmen will always turn to them for their more sophisticated tread-head needs.



Oh and just an aside, has Colonel Straken always had a 3+ save? I'm not familiar with his rules. Holy crap!

Anung Un Rama wrote:I assume the "Fusil à pompe" is a shotgun. Which is a crying shame, because it still has the same bad stats. At least Marines got a S4 shotgun. With AP3 hellguns, stormtroopers won't even consider this option. And here I was hoping they finally put Arbites in the book *sigh*

Wasn't there also a lot of buzz about Inquisitors in this book?

Translates to (rifle to pump) Pump Rifle. You are correct.

Also, when will we be seeing these mythical recuts? 6 months? 12 months? It's a long time out.

I can't imagine the Deathstrike being a FW piece without costing an arm and a leg... it'd be a solid chunk of resin.

Wave 2 is rumored to be 6 months after the release of the codex, so around November.

AlexCage wrote:

Scottywan82 wrote:I'm most amazed by how many UNMADE models are in this book. I mean, how long has it been since half the models that have entries had no models at all? Seriously. 3rd edition?

Yeah I was wondering about this... I've had some thoughts.

This may be indictive of GW Studio's closer relationship with Forge World. Could GW be relying on Forge World to supply most of these tanks? As it stands, that's the only way to get some of the models, and alot of the new stuff definitely seems very "Forge World-esque". (Deathstrike, most obvious amongst these).

Though I thought they were trying to move away from FW being the only outlet for certain models. Or maybe GW has accepted that Forge World is basically "Imperial Guard+", and good Guardsmen will always turn to them for their more sophisticated tread-head needs.



Oh and just an aside, has Colonel Straken always had a 3+ save? I'm not familiar with his rules. Holy crap!

Forge World is still pretty much out of the grasp of the average gamer, so I doubt GW would look to them to fill the gap in the long run. They might create resin versions, but sooner or later GW will create their own plastic kits (hopefully).

Straken has such a high save due to his bionic chest. Something to do with wrestling a Miral Landshark and losing.

edit.

aka_mythos wrote:I can't imagine the Deathstrike being a FW piece without costing an arm and a leg... it'd be a solid chunk of resin.

I'm pretty sure I can scratch build a giant missile. Is this thing sitting on top of a Chimera chassis?

I agree that is the better way to go then FW, in this instance.

http://www.ifelix.net/gamingblog/wp-content/005_2a.jpg

Well as someone who had decided to return to the Guard with the new Codex over a year ago, all I can do at the moment is sit here with a smile on my face.

And my mate said he hated playing my old Guard army with his Orks.

aka_mythos wrote:I can't imagine the Deathstrike being a FW piece without costing an arm and a leg... it'd be a solid chunk of resin..

No they will make the missile hollow and in 7 different pieces, none of which will fit together

So if this is true, and it matches up with the other rumors that everyone else thought was way too Fanboy sounding....

Does that mean that we're probably looking at 40 point IG squads?

And the other rumors being probably true?

It will put a huge smile on my face to think that Orks & IG will be the Power Gaming armies of 40k 5th Edition.

How Far We've Come....

Here's a good model that will be 6x cheaper than a FW deathstrike at $185

http://www.missionmodels.com/product.php?productid=16655&cat=355&page=1

Scuds to the rescue!

I was skeptical of the Spanish rumors, but I'm happy to be wrong.

It's just bittersweet that I still won't be able to use my Salamanders (and I don't want to hear the "A-word").

Now then, they just need to reveal the new Orders System in detail...

Edit: And I'm thrilled the Valkyrie is 12/12/10, instead of 12/10/10... I shuddered at the thought of all those Valkyries brought down by bolter fire. And AV12 Sentinels FTW.