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I don't like the cover...it's not in their normal art style, it grates, It's got clear sky's instead of dark foreboding ones full of mycetic spores, it's not epic enough, and IMHO that 'fex is looking a bit anaemic

Speaking as a one-time former nid player and a guy who has been hunting down battleforces in anticipation for a new dex in january, I have to say... I love no retreat wounds on gaunts.

Its so perfectly cinematic, close combat heroes wade into a sea of gaunts and pile the bodies to the sky, and just when they think they finished the threat, a new unit pours on from the table edge.

In practice, non-horma units are there to provide anti-infantry fire support, charge screen, and cover save for units behind them, like tyrant guard and (cough) warriors. The dual purpose of fulfilling the cover save and charge screen role, and then re-entering play later in the game in order to take back field objectives is very powerful, and unique to the nids.

Now, I will freely admit that under the current codex, gaunts are neither cheap enough, nor are they killy enough versus infantry models to warrant taking no retreat wounds. With a double dose of cost decrease and (hopefully) fire power increase, I don't think I imagine anyone will have a hard time swallowing the no retreat rule. In fact I expect many of you to cheer your opponent on as he rips through your numbers, the quicker he can cut them down, the quicker you can get your fresh unit into position on the objective.

Now, as for hormagaunts. This is the unit that has more problems with no retreat. The trick with balancing hormagaunts is that they need to be able to win combats against non-CC specialists by a considerable margin. That means they need a massive points cost reduction. If a WS5 I5 STR4 gaunt is 10 points, then we've got a unit that matches up very favorably on the charge versus 200 points of tactical squad. Even a grey hunter unit will be rolling 20 armor saves before they swing. Thats actually a nice sweet spot, plenty of wounds to not worry about no retreat, and a decent possibility that you'll get stuck in CC for another half-turn. The 6 point hormagaunt would make a grey hunter unit take 16 wounds simultaneously as it takes 10 wounds back (without a mark of wulfen upgrade). So that is obviously not a good option. Here is to hoping that the basic cost of hormas is 6, but the strength, WS and I options are there, and cheap.

Zid wrote:

Scrapping DE would be a pretty lame thing to do, and I agree, the outrage alone will lose GW a lot of money. If they've already invested so much time and resources, and as an earlier poster mentioned finished half the line of models, it makes more sense to actually release them than scrap em. I mean, Nids' are about as played as DE, and I think DE would get played more if they had a new codex and models!

QFT.
Trust me,the number of people that say "well i always liked DE,but the models put me off" then GW wonders why they don't sell well...

I love no retreat wounds on gaunts.

Its so perfectly cinematic, close combat heroes wade into a sea of gaunts and pile the bodies to the sky, and just when they think they finished the threat, a new unit pours on from the table edge.

I'm with ya there. It's a pretty cool touch, but since cheapest WoN Gaunts can get is 8 points, it's crippling. With a reduction to 4 points, you could let those fools die ad nauseam. That would be the Tyranid swarm I used to know and love.

Don't judge a book by its cover. I just hope the codex is not as badly executed as the cover because it sucks serious a...

Greets
Schepp himself

Like I said earlier in one of these threads, I think the fun of fighting Tyranids is causing damage to them. The gaunts just need something to justify them being so easy to kill.

Can I get this straight: Space Wolves are around the corner, and Blood Angels, Nids, Necrons and DE are coming later too?

Honestly GW is goin so overbored on MEQ (especially SM).
The Hobby would be such a richer experiance were there variety, instead of many versoins of the same simplistic set-up.
Blood Angels are not needed at all, the main SM codex is brand new not to mention all the randoms like DA, Templars and shortly SW etc. Even Chaos is like just another version of SM now.

?

Just my $0.02

jp400 wrote:I also collect and shoot firearms as another hobby of mine. Sure it has some cost attached to it, but unlike 40k I never have to worry about a new TM comming out invalidating my current build (AC, LATD, Squats ect) Or worrying that the gun I bought will still be legal and viable when a new edition comes out (CSM, IG) Plus I can (and do) cast my own bullets, and reload them so that damn near halfs the cost (At a min) of ammo.

Are you a Democrat in denial, or a Republican survivalist?

Everybody else knows that Obama's going to try to take away our guns!

Railguns wrote:Like I said earlier in one of these threads, I think the fun of fighting Tyranids is causing damage to them. The gaunts just need something to justify them being so easy to kill.

Something I thought about was having Tyranids in Synapse having a rule like the Dark Eldar Talos' Claws, where extra hits give a bonus to armour penetration, so a big swarm of Termagants, for example, could peel a Rhino like a grape if enough of them get there. Something to reflect their swarming nature would at least be cool.

KingCracker wrote:
Still waiting to see a picture like that but with some DE on it lol

I'd love to see a cover illustration where nids were eating Dark Eldar.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So... anyone in touch with Bugswarm?

adielubbe wrote:Even Chaos is like just another version of SM now.

I think everyone recognizes, though, that this was a BAD change. Nobody wanted this at all. Trust me, I'd like to be able to field characterful daemons, maybe even spawn, and definitely cultists, but GW's made two of those evaporate and the spawn currently SUCK.


As far as cost of the hobby is concerned, it's hit and miss. GW's raised prices, but on the other hand they've also released great plastic kits. No longer do you need to spend $50 or more for 5 marauder horsemen or chaos knights. For just 22, or 27, or something like that you get more easily converted, much more impressive-looking models! Things like skeletons, sure, used to come 16 to a box for $30 and are now 22 for 10. But they look a lot cooler and have a lot more extra bits that are actually usable. I call that paying for quality.

And in the end, after working at a Hobbytown USA, I like to compare the cost of my hobby with almost any other hobby. I could be into trains [hundreds of dollars per layout, thousands of dollars in equipment, $600 train sets], or guns [hundreds to thousands for a gun depending], or R/C racing [oh god the cost of the cars, plus equipment, plus parts, replacement parts, upgraded parts, fuel....].

Plastic men is a very cheap hobby, all things considered, and when modelling and painting is included, provides way way more hours of entertainment than most others. The only cheaper hobby I've found is online gaming [$15 a month for as much time as you want? sure!], and that's just.... meh, sit at a computer all day no thanks!

Spellbound wrote:

adielubbe wrote:Even Chaos is like just another version of SM now.

I think everyone recognizes, though, that this was a BAD change. Nobody wanted this at all.

Untrue. Many of us didn't like Codex: Evil Pigeonholes.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Spellbound wrote:

adielubbe wrote:Even Chaos is like just another version of SM now.

I think everyone recognizes, though, that this was a BAD change. Nobody wanted this at all.

Untrue. Many of us didn't like Codex: Evil Pigeonholes.

You mean the new one, right? The current one, with like 2 competitive builds, and only ONE good HQ choice?

The old one had LOTS of options with LOTS of character and MANY viable builds. The new one is a piece of crap.

The NEW chaos codex, though, which some call Codex: Space Wolves, has brought back the character, variety, viability, and proper feel of the chaos space marines. It's a shame there's no daemons, but hey the POS one didn't really have any either apart from crappy princes and GDs.

Spellbound wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Spellbound wrote:

adielubbe wrote:Even Chaos is like just another version of SM now.

I think everyone recognizes, though, that this was a BAD change. Nobody wanted this at all.

Untrue. Many of us didn't like Codex: Evil Pigeonholes.

You mean the new one, right?

Don't be ridiculous.

Here we go again...

I agree with John and I hope Spellbound is not being that obtuse about what JHDD is talking about? Or can he?

I foresee a lock pretty soon if this "unmentionable" codex pissing contest kicks off again.

Spellbound wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Spellbound wrote:

adielubbe wrote:Even Chaos is like just another version of SM now.

I think everyone recognizes, though, that this was a BAD change. Nobody wanted this at all.

Untrue. Many of us didn't like Codex: Evil Pigeonholes.

You mean the new one, right? The current one, with like 2 competitive builds, and only ONE good HQ choice?

The old one had LOTS of options with LOTS of character and MANY viable builds. The new one is a piece of crap.

The NEW chaos codex, though, which some call Codex: Space Wolves, has brought back the character, variety, viability, and proper feel of the chaos space marines. It's a shame there's no daemons, but hey the POS one didn't really have any either apart from crappy princes and GDs.

OMG, i have got to do this now, i will make a Chaos army and use SW rules!!!!

Thunderwolves being marines riding http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1120033&prodId=prod1170209

A greater Deamon conversion being the character dread

Blood claws! http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1020024&prodId=prod1095443

There is alot of great ways to make this awesome to have a Chaos looking army with SW rules!!!

Back on topic, I don't mind the cover. Yes, it's a bit sunny, but do skies always have to darken when the bad guys attack?

See Starship Troopers for an example of a scary attack by bugs in broad daylight.

Ahem, I mean scary for those involved. I wasn't scared

It's apparent the reason GW changed the old CSM codex was that it was clearly overpowered, so they 'split' it into two armies so to say: new CSM and Daemons..

Yet I'm saying this change evidently just led to another SM (MEQ) army, on top of the extreme amount currently standing.

I simply hope they get creative with the new Tyranids, DE and Necrons. Because if those Xenos get a cutting edge, the game will drastically improve, 'cus as I see it atm, It's MEQ vs. basically Orks (sometimes Gaurd)... ?

If those for mentioned bulk up, its game-on
I hope

Someone needs to change the title of this thread, although I'm not sure you could justify "Why Codex Chaos Space Marines are rubbish" being in the News and Rumours section.

I do not know what to make of this little green Nids. I mean if they are a new unit tyranids would be the first 40k army with two diffrent swarm bases (unless there is something way back in history I do not know about). My speculations would go more that they are a new type of upgrade like Toxin Sacks or Adrinaline Glands. One of them is obviously attached to the Carnifexes joint. TBH the pose of the FEX is lame but those are one of the meanest Nids I have ever seen. I am pretty glad that I do not have to wait until Feburary and it will be nice to follow the codex rumours from November till December .

Flashman wrote:Someone needs to change the title of this thread, although I'm not sure you could justify "Why Codex Chaos Space Marines are rubbish" being in the News and Rumours section.

This isn't news.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Symbio Joe wrote:TBH the pose of the FEX is lame but those are one of the meanest Nids I have ever seen.

Nids ? mean ? get out of there,they love cuddles

The guy is complaining about the bright sky because supposedly when Tyranids attack the skies darken specifically because of all of the different types of spores that are released over the target planet. If not dark, at least blood red or some other dark color.
We've had the Chaos codex discussion well over the necessary number of times. it had a general list, like the current codex, and several sublists w/ changes and different units if you wanted legion specific/god specific lists, like Pete Haines correctly surmised(although he did treat Iron Warriors like his special baby). There was no pidgeon-holing unless you chose to be, and the new codex stripped out much of what people liked about Chaos. End of meaningful discussion, there.

The adrenal glands and toxin sacs are always mentioned as being symbiotes, but never have been mentioned as being capable of independant movement. It wouldn't make sense to me to have them attack with a swarm on the ground when everything is going to be so much faster than them that they'll never catch up and latch on to something useful. This must be some sort of "staging" scene.

Railguns wrote:
The adrenal glands and toxin sacs are always mentioned as being symbiotes, but never have been mentioned as being capable of independant movement. It wouldn't make sense to me to have them attack with a swarm on the ground when everything is going to be so much faster than them that they'll never catch up and latch on to something useful. This must be some sort of "staging" scene.

Imagine glands/sacs slugging off of downed nids and upgrading passing units or trying to attack on their own.
not doable really ingame but would be fun fluff

The Chaos Space Marine codex is off-topic in this thread. If you'd like to discuss it further, please do so with your gaming group; we've had quite enough of it here.

Symbio Joe wrote:I mean if they are a new unit tyranids would be the first 40k army with two diffrent swarm bases (unless there is something way back in history I do not know about).

IIRC, in 2nd Ed, Orks had Squig Swarms and Snotling Swarms.

Symbio Joe wrote:I do not know what to make of this little green Nids. I mean if they are a new unit tyranids would be the first 40k army with two diffrent swarm bases (unless there is something way back in history I do not know about).

Lifted from 2nd edition "Codex Imperialis"

"...The tyranids are not therefore one creature, but a whole variety of unbelievable monstrosities varying in size from the huge organic spacecraft of the hive fleets to tiny functionary creatures such as the beetle-sized Scatophagoids that digest and recycle waste material in the living respiratory vents of the Tyranid spacecarft."

Scatophagoids aren't big enough to forma swarm, and their function is not combat. It is more likely that they are just a drawing, never to make the codex as a combatant unit. If they appeared in the codex at all, it could be as an upgrade to a monstrous creature. If an MC was hosting scatophagoids, then their bodies would be clear of waste material, giving them maybe +4 charisma?

If they are Scatophagoids, then the artist clearly just lifted the adrenal gland design and made an insect out of it. We can't be sure. However GW artists have historically taken great liberties with Tyranid art anyway, apparently just to make sure that the only players who know exactly what a Tyranid model is, and is armed with are Tyranid players themselves.

Farmer wrote:
Yeah,what from i gather Nids might actually play like a CC army now

Boy wouldn't that be nice...but if they leave the Tyranids with the ability to take a large amount of shooty-units, then perhaps my Tau should be given the ability to be heavily CC oriented in the next Tau Codex...

I don't like the cover. Artistically it has no flow. The carnifex is too centered and drastically takes over the image. The previous codex had a good line of sight down the left side, starting with the carnies head, then the tank, then curving down along the gaunts. On this cover you just look at the carnifex, then you have to almost consciously take in anything else. The composition is just plain awful.

That wouldn't be so bad if the carnifex itself wasn't stubby and mishapen.




As for the contents of the codex itself, it's written by cruddace. Meaning we'll likely get flame template bio plasma back, that stupid web gun, and the harpoon thingy. Hopefully we'll get some forge world overlap too, I want a malenthrope and that giant spore mine in the main book.

Also it'll be inarguably overpowered. Just like the last codex he wrote.