Why don't people paint anymore?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Cane**

Polonius ftw, agreed on what you said. The attitudes you described are borderline TFG or at least huge steps going down that direction especially when it comes to the attitude of people refusing to play against plastic grey armies and feeling holier than thou. Seems a bit hypocritical to have such a mindset since most of us probably learned through playing with plastic grey mini's as well.

Seems very counter productive to have an elitist attitude for our niche hobby and seems to take the fun and the hobby of playing toy soldiers a bit too seriously when one feels justified in looking down on others and refusing to game with a fellow hobbyist.

On the flipside if you're not showing any painting effort in a given period of time it can look "bad" but who knows what could be holding that person back especially in this economy. Situations like those I don't try to assume since life is too damn busy and filled with unexpected and unwanted drama.

In a social setting of wargamers one should follow the golden rule and even Dakka's number one rule of being polite - refusing to game with a fellow toy soldier general because his army is unpainted seems to go against the very spirit of the game and imo douchey/TFG. Why try to put down or make others mad in the niche that we both 'escape' to?

**MisterMoon**

Redbeard wrote:
Loki_TBC wrote:
In response to REDBEARD's comment:

Is it "elitist" to refuse to play against someone who cannot afford to purchase authentic GW miniatures, but who can field an army of appropriately-sized cardboard markers (See poorhammer)? It does not impact gameplay at all - if all you care about is the gameplay, why is this an issue?

With true line of sight being introduced in 40K, the use of non-GW figs would affect the game, so yes, I would have a problem with it. On the other hand, in WHFB - be my guest!

What part of 'appropriately-sized' would prevent true line of sight from still working. It's really not that hard to measure a rhino and a marine and cut your cardboard appropriately.

In addition, I have sold quite a few miniatures. The ones I have painted have always sold for more than I paid for them, while the ones that I did not paint have sold for less. It's really a matter of how well the miniatures are painted, not simply whether they are or not that makes the difference. Poorly painted minis lose value for the reasons you describe. Well-painted minis gain value.

This is a good point as I'd love to find someone sell me some minis painted or not. If they are painted I'll just simple green/brake fluid them. My only concern with buying minis once they are put together is how well they were prepped ie. mold lines, basing... etc so if a mini is painted I couldn't care less.
On a more speculative note- this is pure rationalization. I can't prove it but I know it when I see it. You don't want to paint a mini because of resale? I'm raising the BS flag on that.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Yes thats my point , it was for people that insist " i cant enjoy playing if the other guy's army isnt painted"

Hence you have see some people quoted me into their sigs from a year ago " what? does the lack of painting not bring the realism you imagine your little plastic soldier to be?" or something like that.

**carmachu**

MisterMoon wrote:
I grade my painting as just slightly above average. However, that average is hard to judge as so few folks paint anymore. I live in northeast Atlanta. We have a Games Workshop store and a very large private shop. The guys who work at the Games Workshop have virtually nothing painted in their own private possession- even their former black shirt had army caseS (with an S) of unpainted minis. The private store is a slightly different story as the store owners have vast collections that are beautifully painted, but many GOOD gamers show up half painted- or not painted at all. I got into the hobby with the idea that everyone painted their armies, and would be ashamed to bring unpainted minis to a gaming table. At this point I have no idea where I got into this assumption. However, it'd seem to me that if you spend 50 bucks on a model kit you'd want to do more than just glue it together, more importantly if you invest all the money and time into this hobby you'd want to do it right and paint; and if you didn't know how, you'd want to learn. I know several folks will think I'm elitist or call me names like paint nazi et al. but I seriously did get into this hobby for the visual stimulation from seeing a fully modeled miniaturization of a futuristic or fantasy battlefield.

I've heard all the excuses. I say save your money and get a RTSG on the PC or XBOX. I get told that they enjoy the game and the social element. I say quite seriously that what you do with your money is your business but if you aren't going to do it right, save that money and just a piece of paper and write ORKS on it, instead of buying the fifty dollar kit of orks. One analogy I use which I think is pretty strong. If I staple some HO tracks to a plain piece of wood and put a train on it I'm technically into model trains. However, I'm no where near they guy who's got the entire city scape built up. Now I understand that you must START with some HO tracks stapled to plain wood, but it seems many gamers are happy stopping right there and never fully appreciating the hobby.

To sum it up- if both armies aren't painted then to me the visual element is lost and I'm 12 years old again playing Risk. I don't get the stimulating simulation feel that I get from seeing two painted armies, even half decently painted.

Wow, how elitest of you. Who crowned you king and dicate what the hobby is? Who are you to dictate what is good fun/bad fun?

So people paint, some people like to play. Some people like to model. Some like to do everything.

Different people approach the game from different angles. I would rathe rplay a good person and opponent with an unpainted army then TFG or an A-hole with a golden demon level one every time.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kilkrazy wrote:

Nearly anyone who is serious about tabletop games will come to paint their figures because that is the point of playing tabletop games.

Really? And here I thought the point of table top games was to, you know, actually play the game. Otherwise if you want to paint there are a ton of other models you can paint.....

**MisterMoon**

Polonius wrote:This is a great thread, it's like a Christmas Special on television: the characters change, but the plot, the lessons, and the symbols all stay constant. Let's see what we have:

First, shut up and paint your damn army. If you don't' have time because of work, than hire a kid to throw some paint on it. If you want to paint it beautifully (and honestly, how many of those armies are finished? 5%? Fewer?), put a basecoast down, and add highlights and layers later.

Secondly, get off your high horse about painting. Yes, painted armies are good, and we should do all we can to encourage them, but the proliferation of unpainted armies is a result of many factors, including expansion of the gamer base, increased army sizes, dramatically increased model detail, and relaxation of standards. For fun, open up a white dwarf from 1992, and one from today. Compare the armies in the battle reports, and consider how much more time it would take to replicate the results from the current army. Between number of models, increased detail, and far higher standards I'm guessing it takes triple the time.

Third, realize that people have fun in different ways, and if you have unpainted stuff, you should work to paint it to enable others to have fun. If you see an unpainted army, maybe you should play a game so others can have fun. By loosening sphincters and putting some time into the hobby, we can all have a lot more fun.

But for me it's not a high horse- it's what I enjoy... I enjoy playing, but with a painted army against someone else who loves to play, but with a painted army. I want the full experience. How hard is it to have a 1200-1500 pts painted, if you want to add something else to that army, just paint it first. Foundation, wash, trim... This ain't hard...

props for the "chestnut about time to paint" funny.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

carmachu wrote:

Wow, how elitest of you. Who crowned you king and dicate what the hobby is? Who are you to dictate what is good fun/bad fun?

So people paint, some people like to play. Some people like to model. Some like to do everything.

Different people approach the game from different angles. I would rathe rplay a good person and opponent with an unpainted army then TFG or an A-hole with a golden demon level one every time.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kilkrazy wrote:

Nearly anyone who is serious about tabletop games will come to paint their figures because that is the point of playing tabletop games.

Really? And here I thought the point of table top games was to, you know, actually play the game. Otherwise if you want to paint there are a ton of other models you can paint.....

OK let me expand my logic.... again....

I like to play, but with painted armies, against folks who like to play, but with painted armies. I don't play with nor associate with A-holes or those who power-game with TFG's. In other words having a fully painted army won't automatically qualify you to be someone I play against, but having a fully unpainted army would certainly eliminate you in most circumstances.

**fullheadofhair**

This stupid subject crops up with depressing regularity and each time we get awesome dislays on intolerance on both sides.

1st off - people pay their money to GW or FLGS for a box of toy soldiers. There is no EULA that says they need to be painted. If you don't like to see an unpainted army go play someone else who shares you view as to what the hobby comprises of.

Will people complaining about a lack of painting stop using words like "ashamed" and "lazy" etc - who the heck do you think you are to be able to dictate what the toy soldiers hobby is? Do you think you are so important that you opinion counts in any shape or form - that is a tad arrogant.

To the OP - "However, it'd seem to me that if you spend 50 bucks on a model kit you'd want to do more than just glue it together, more importantly if you invest all the money and time into this hobby you'd want to do it right and paint; and if you didn't know how, you'd want to learn."

&

"if you invest all the money and time into this hobby you'd want to do it right and paint"

Those comments are so breath takingly arrogant and so full of poor assumptions it isn't even funny. The key words are "it'd seem to me" - yes it may seem to you but it doesn't to others - you opinion on how others should enjoy the fruits of their hard earned cash carries zero weight.

Also, how dare you tell people "you'd want to do it right" - incredibly smug.

Sheesh - there are enough people outside the hobby who give us crap for even playing with toy soldiers - we don't need people within the hobby looking down on others with a holier than thou attitude.

And frankly, seeing the way many people paint I wish they actually didn't paint their miniatures because they suck at painting and the paint jobs look aweful to the point where grey unprimered models look better. Ha, see I can be elitist and smug too.

**fullheadofhair**

MisterMoon wrote:
OK let me expand my logic.... again....

I like to play, but with painted armies, against folks who like to play, but with painted armies. I don't play with nor associate with A-holes or those who power-game with TFG's. In other words having a fully painted army won't automatically qualify you to be someone I play against, but having a fully unpainted army would certainly eliminate you in most circumstances.

That attitude has just added you to my list of people I hope to never have to play against.

**carmachu**

MisterMoon wrote:

OK let me expand my logic.... again....

I like to play, but with painted armies, against folks who like to play, but with painted armies. I don't play with nor associate with A-holes or those who power-game with TFG's. In other words having a fully painted army won't automatically qualify you to be someone I play against, but having a fully unpainted army would certainly eliminate you in most circumstances.

Irrelevant when you say:

"I say save your money and get a RTSG on the PC or XBOX"

When you say that, along with the few otehr things, you come off as complete snob. Like your way or the highway. Its great you do, but its not the only way. Many people enjoy the gaming, fluff, painting or whatever.

Your analyzing WHY people dont paint completely misses the mark. Yeah some are lazy, but then again, some dont care. Its not important to THEIR enjoyment of the game.

OI have fully, partially, and unpainted armies. I have played against, fully, partiall, unpainted, and hell half assembled armies. The state of the army has nothing to do with the enjoyment.

**fullheadofhair**

deleted for wrong button used!!!

Automatically Appended Next Post:

carmachu wrote:
When you say that, along with the few otehr things, you come off as complete snob. Like your way or the highway. Its great you do, but its not the only way. Many people enjoy the gaming, fluff, painting or whatever.

Your analyzing WHY people dont paint completely misses the mark. Yeah some are lazy, but then again, some dont care. Its not important to THEIR enjoyment of the game.

OI have fully, partially, and unpainted armies. I have played against, fully, partiall, unpainted, and hell half assembled armies. The state of the army has nothing to do with the enjoyment.

I agree with the points you are raising. For me, gaming is about through down some dice with friends and enjoying a break from the stresses of job and life. Yes, I enjoying painting and painted armies look cool on a table. Judging other people who don't use painted armies just isn't cool - we don't know why their army in't painted or what the reasons he/she is in the hobby for. If he/ she is a good player, fun can take abuse and dish it out and down a beer or two whilst playing I don't give two hoots as to what his army looks like.

**carmachu**

fullheadofhair wrote:

I agree with the points you are raising. For me, gaming is about through down some dice with friends and enjoying a break from the stresses of job and life. Yes, I enjoying painting and painted armies look cool on a table. Judging other people who don't use painted armies just isn't cool - we don't know why their army in't painted or what the reasons he/she is in the hobby for. If he/ she is a good player, fun can take abuse and dish it out and down a beer or two whilst playing I don't give two hoots as to what his army looks like.

I dont mind THta some folks want to play against painted armies. What I mind and resent is the fact that many of those that do, as demonstrated in this and other threads on painting, think THEIR way is the right and ONLY way in the gaming hobby world. And if you dont do it THEIR way, your having bad/wrong fun or should go buy an EBOX or as Paul Sawyer once said, go take up golf or some other sport.

Its not. People come into the game and hobby from a variety of reasons and vectors. There's ultimately no real wrong way as long as everyone is having fun.

But let people have their fun and stop trampling on other people's methods. I come from a time when basing was optional. OPTIONAL. And it was a beer and pretzels game instead of "THE GW HOBBY!!!!"

**Ozymandias**

I've been gaming for over 15 years and I have only one completely painted army (and some of the models go back 15 years).

I really resent the notion that because I don't have a fully painted army that I'm somehow a noob or TFG or don't appreciate the hobby fully. This thread is like all the Fluff gamers telling the competitive gamers that they don't play the game right. Get off your high horse, get over yourself, and just play the fething game.

**Polonius**

MisterMoon wrote:
But for me it's not a high horse- it's what I enjoy... I enjoy playing, but with a painted army against someone else who loves to play, but with a painted army. I want the full experience. How hard is it to have a 1200-1500 pts painted, if you want to add something else to that army, just paint it first. Foundation, wash, trim... This ain't hard...

You're kind of missing my point. You're saying you don't want to play unpainted armies, you start a thread complaining about them, and then spend four pages trying to convince us you're not on a high horse.

It's really ok for you to be, I just think that you are, not unlike people that don't paint, missing out on some aspects of the hobby.

It's not that hard to paint 1500pts of an army. Likewise, it's not that hard to play a game against an unpainted army. There are two sides to this, and I think that a certain mutual understanding could go a long way.

**Che-Vito**

I love to paint, and I love to play.

What does this mean?

It means, that I will buy the models, assemble them, and AT LEAST basecoat them before bringing them to the table. I will individually paint the squad leaders, vehicles, and elites first, and then move on to the Troops.

I'm not going to put off playing until my army is full painted to my standard, but I will continue to work on painting it until it is completed.

**Shadowbrand**

Well, one model from my whole new IG army is painted but...

I'm waiting on getting some primer then im gonna do up all 1k points I got then I gotta strip some models I'm waiting to receive.

**Dronze**

I'm lukewarm on painting and I love to play this game. Is a large portion of my army painted? No... is the exceedingly small portion of my stuff that is painted done well? some of it...

I play the game for the fluff and for the game itself. I play to play, and could care less about the painting. Will I do the painting eventually? When I find the time and the motivation to do so. While I can appreciate people who paint, and it never ceases to amaze me what some people can do with some paint, it's just not that important to me, and I can't seem to comprehend why people are so uppity about it and what other people get out of this hobby...

**wyomingfox**

Polonius wrote:First, shut up and paint your damn army. If you don't' have time because of work, than hire a kid to throw some paint on it. If you want to paint it beautifully (and honestly, how many of those armies are finished? 5%? Fewer?), put a basecoast down, and add highlights and layers later.

Ummm...yeah, except if they don't value "painted" miniatures, they are not going to spend the money or the time to paint the miniatures. So their appropriate answer to you will be a resounding "No, I don't want to". Again, I think that most people get into this hobby, and just about any other hobby, for their personal satisfaction...not yours or anyone elses.

Moreover, what concern is it to anyone else how I paint my miniatures that I bought with my money? If I or someone else wants to paint my/their army piecemeal and to a "display" standard, then that is my/their perogative. If you don't want to play against an unpainted army, then that is your perogative.

**LunaHound**

wyomingfox wrote:
Polonius wrote:First, shut up and paint your damn army. If you don't' have time because of work, than hire a kid to throw some paint on it. If you want to paint it beautifully (and honestly, how many of those armies are finished? 5%? Fewer?), put a basecoast down, and add highlights and layers later.

Ummm...yeah, except if they don't value "painted" miniatures, they are not going to spend the money or the time to paint the miniatures. So their appropriate answer to you will be a resounding "No, I don't want to". Again, I think that most people get into this hobby, and just about any other hobby, for their personal satisfaction...not yours or anyone elses.

Moreover, what concern is it to anyone else how I paint my miniatures that I bought with my money? If I or someone else wants to paint my/their army piecemeal and to a "display" standard, then that is my/their perogative. If you don't want to play against an unpainted army, then that is your perogative.

I fully agree fox.

I feel obligated to copy paste this in every page of this thread:

-There are players that got into warhammer for Hobby Aspect.

-There are players that got into warhammer for Gaming Aspect.

- A hastily painted army (unless you are a pro) will no doubt diminish the value of the army , not to mention time + paint invested .

**wyomingfox**

malfred wrote:the most important reason I apply the make-up to my models is also the most selfish. I do so
for my own pleasure.

Thanks Malfred and Luna; also, I don't see the problem with this attitude. Engaging in hobbies are suppose to provide one with pleasure! Otherwise, hell, you might as well work 24/7.

fullheadofhair wrote:Sheesh - there are enough people outside the hobby who give us crap for even playing with toy soldiers - we don't need people within the hobby looking down on others with a holier than thou attitude.

This is so True

. I had 2 girls on Eharmony suddenly break off communication after I showed them pictures of my painted models

**Fateweaver**

Lunahound is a very good painter. She has skills.

Just thought I'd toss that out there.

**wyomingfox**

Frazzled wrote:Polonius…banned. Wyomingfox…banned…

Wait

Polonius opens his mouth and I get banned.

Oh well, at least I will have more time to compost manure with this pair of dentures that I stole off Frazzled's countertop this morning.

**Aduro**

You know, if this thread goes on much longer, I'm going to have to copy/paste the OP but substitute "painted" for "converted". I mean really, why would you spend your money on something, and then just put it together the same way everyone else did. If all you want is standard pose figs, you might as well just go play D&D minis or some other game where it all comes pre-assembled.

**LunaHound**

Aduro wrote:You know, if this thread goes on much longer, I'm going to have to copy/paste the OP but substitute "painted" for "converted". I mean really, why would you spend your money on something, and then just put it together the same way everyone else did. If all you want is standard pose figs, you might as well just go play D&D minis or some other game where it all comes pre-assembled.

You win o_o

**Howlingmoon**

LunaHound wrote:
For the people that insist on others to hastily paint their army for the sake of visual appeal for your gaming experience i suggest you visit the swap shop.

There you'll see the heart breaking stories of people painting their army , some even had them commission painted.

At the end of the day, all the effort , time , $ spent on it fetches them below 20% off retail value , due to the buyer want to strip the paint off.

Warhammer: Go Big or Go Home.

On Topic: I paint far far more than I play.

In fact, let's see. Since I got back in at the beginning of the summer. I have spent 6+ hours a day 2+ days a week at the local GW painting/modeling. Games played? 3

**LunaHound**

Howlingmoon wrote:
Warhammer: Go Big or Go Home.

On Topic: I paint far far more than I play.

In fact, let's see. Since I got back in at the beginning of the summer. I have spent 6+ hours a day 2+ days a week at the local GW painting/modeling. Games played? 3

Yes but as i said before, thats YOU . Other people are NOT YOU , as some of them just want to do the gaming aspect. (note, see the legoburner's thread on other aspects )
Are you denying our existence? that some how the poll are rigged and all the none painter votes are made by none humans?
Go big or Go home? what does that mean? I have every army and unit im interested in , probably enough to rival HBMC , does this mean im finally
at the standard to have an opinion?

**wyomingfox**

[Sarcasm]Are they painted?[/Sarcasm]

**ph34r**

If I don't want to play against your unpainted army I don't have to. Don't get all self-righteous that people refuse to play against unpainted armies, a large part of the game for many people people (people that aren't you) is painting.

If you just got your army together and want to test it out while you paint it? Sure.

If you are just too lazy to paint your army? Nope.

**wyomingfox**

That hasn't been my point. Heck I am a painter, and so is Luna, and several others. If you don't want to play against an unpainted army that is fine. I mean it is not like they can't easily find someone else to play with. Just don't expect others to quite the hobby because they refuse to paint their armies and don't expect them to respond well when you call them n00bs, lazy, ect.

Personally, I have 2000 points of Tau painted by a commissioned artist, I also have about 2000 points of Tyranids and 1000 points of SW that I myself painted over the past decade. Though admittily I still have over 10,000 points worth of stuff unpainted and accordingly, often game with a large number unpainted.

**carmachu**

ph34r wrote:If I don't want to play against your unpainted army I don't have to. Don't get all self-righteous that people refuse to play against unpainted armies, a large part of the game for many people people (people that aren't you) is painting.

If you just got your army together and want to test it out while you paint it? Sure.

If you are just too lazy to paint your army? Nope.

See, you and yours are still doing it. Your ASSUMING that the reason the armies are unpainted is we're lazy.

You forget in your zeal, that to YOU a large part of the game is painting, that for many others? A large part of the game is....to play the game.

**malfred**

I think people with unpainted armies hide their fully painted omfglolwhut armies in another
case. What happens next is up to their opponent. If the opponent has a fit and refuses
to play the unpainted army player, the unpainter just smiles knowingly in response. If the
opponent is friendly, the unpainter swaps out his kit and *surprise* his army was painted
all along!

It's like one of those M. Night Shm.... movies.

**fullheadofhair**

ph34r wrote:If I don't want to play against your unpainted army I don't have to. Don't get all self-righteous that people refuse to play against unpainted armies, a large part of the game for many people people (people that aren't you) is painting.

If you just got your army together and want to test it out while you paint it? Sure.

If you are just too lazy to paint your army? Nope.

You missing the point. If you don't want to play someone who hasn't painted an army that is your choice - I disagree with it myself, but it is your choice.

what I object to is people telling others what they should be doing to enjoy their hobby - i.e if you don't play with a fully painted army you are not a true member of the GW gaming community. It is the people who look down on others who don't agree with your definition of "the hobby" that are self-righteous and a trifle smug with a "I am a better hobbyist than you" attitude.

**ph34r**

If someone is trying to get their army painted and can't because of situations out of their control, sure I'll play you. But if you just don't want to paint your army, I'm not going to play against you. I'm not doing anything bad by not playing someone.

I don't "look down on people". If you want to play 40k without painted models, sure, whatever. It doesn't effect me for the most part so I don't care.

See, you and yours are still doing it. Your ASSUMING that the reason the armies are unpainted is we're lazy.

You forget in your zeal, that to YOU a large part of the game is painting, that for many others? A large part of the game is....to play the game.

Sorry, but you are the only one ASSuming here. I didn't say that all people who don't paint their armies are lazy. You ASSumed that I meant that. You are wrong. I am aware of people who don't paint their armies. I won't try to stop them or berate them for doing what they do, but I won't want to play them.