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I'll agree with you, ive been chastizing the locals here that dont paint their armies, making pointed barbs about unpainted units or whole armies. I get alot of crap like 'im just playtesting this unit.' (right for the last 6 months?) or some other half arsed answer. and its a bit of a sore spot with me as well.
But, its not just my hobby, and gaming is a shared experiance, there isnt much i can do to force a player to at least paint a unit in even one colour let alone the standard 3. Its as much their hobby as anyone elses, yours, mine , and the 9 year old whom couldnt paint to save his life, but at least hes got a painted army.

My advice is dont worry about it, your the one that ends up with a great looking army, or if your that flustered over it organize paint sessions at the local what ever. (club, GWstore, etc) and get involved.

I don't know how it is in your area, but i live in South Africa, and at every tournament you can't compete unless your army is painted.
The criteria they use is:
-atleast 3 colours on every model
-atleast some sand or something on the base

That strongly encourages people to paint their armies.

I have other addicitions to take up my time, but I do make an effort. My Necrons are all painted, and no it isn't a simple drybrush metal over black.

Anung Un Rama wrote:What is the internet version of a firm handshake of approval?

This.

Kilkrazy wrote:Most people who don't paint their figures are basically n00bs who will probably drop out of wargaming as fast as they bought into it.

Nearly anyone who is serious about tabletop games will come to paint their figures because that is the point of playing tabletop games.

I think proprietary rulesets changed that. Before when you painted models you did so
because you'd use them for different rules sets or keep the option of using them for
some future rules set that hasn't been released. Historical figures gave you even more
options when you painted a figure; you could expect that if there wasn't a rules set for
your time period yet, there would be one in the future.

With the company specific rulesets/models I think you're buying into something different. You're
buying into a game world, and as such, you have other considerations that become "the point"
of playing tabletop games for you.

I dislike the argument that you should send people to pre-painted game systems if they
want to play tabletop games but don't want to paint. Those game systems aren't the
ones that they're interested in and often those game worlds aren't the ones they're
interested in. People want to play 40k, or Warmachine, or whatever. At that point I think
paint becomes a personal choice and standard.

I do agree with Waaagh Gonads, though. Paint is part of the hobby buy-in. If someone
spends hours, days, weeks on their army they're more likely to continue playing the
game.

ok what about people like me who enjoy the game,but have no cash to buy paints?Right now most of my spare cash is just going expanding my currant force.Should i wait a few months to play simply because my army is not painted

malfred wrote:I don't need you to paint to enjoy the game.

I do need myself to paint to enjoy the game.

My thoughts exactly.

I only buy when I don't have anything else to paint. It keeps me motivated and saves me money. My personal standards are very high and while I prefer to see painted armies across the table, I'm willing to cut people slack if they're starting. I certainly don't demand people paint their stuff before I play them.

while i would never refuse to play against an unpainted army, i definitely prefer to play against a painted one. lets face it... half of this game is simply eye candy and seeing one pretty little army of toy soldiers standing next to another one while we use probability and small cubes to determine the outcome of the "battle". if someone is new, i encourage them to paint their army. if that fails for a few months, i reserve the right to make jokes at the expense of their great grey horde.

This is directed to all of us “Poor Gamers”.
I have had this issue for years.
However you can go to “Wally-Mart” and for $5.00 come away with one can of Spay Paint and 8 tubes of paint that hold 3x the paint of most of your standard paints.

As far as time management, that can be tricky, but if you can come up with 1-4 hours a week you might be surprised what you can do.

Come to Phoenix Games, look me up and I will slap my unpainted army on the table against you any day and then when the tournaments hit I can point about 5-12 armies on any given weekend that I have either painted a Unit from, or painted the whole thing. I make a lot of money painting for other people, which unfortunately during my time without work leaves me very little if any to paint my own armies.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Anung Un Rama wrote:What is the internet version of a firm handshake of approval?

This.

I was waiting for you to post something along those lines. Can always count on KK

The way I see it the average player has limited time and/or money to dedicate to the hobby. They can either use that time to paint great figs, or they can use that time to improve their game. Or both, if they have lots of time. My gaming group is evidence of this... the players with better paintjobs tend to care less about the gaming aspect, so they get the snot beat out of them when the ranks of gray and black tourney soldiers show up. It's all about priorities I guess. I don't care if I win, as long as the other player is going "oooooh pretty" as I carry my figs to the casualty table.

A note on time management, here are a few things you can do.
Break you units into 3 categories [As a 30 year D&D Gamer I think in these terms]
-Player Characters [Independent Characters/Vehicles]
-Non-Player Characters [Squad Leader/Bikes and Calvary]
-Minions or Meat Shields [Basic Infantry Guys]

Get a few things together
-A good light source
-TV tray
-Your Paints
-1 PC
-A couple of NPCs
-One Squad of Minions
-A goal like: “I will complete this Squad this Week”

I then turn on Adult Swim for Family Guy x2 and Robot Chick x2 [Pick your own show]
I normally watch them anyways, so now I am multi tasking.
Just pain for 1-2 hours
While the Minions are Drying you work on you PC and then while he is drying you work on NPCs.
In 52 weeks you should have your Army compleate.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also if you primer/base army color before you take them off the trees, half you job is done

MisterMoon wrote:I'm going to get on my soap box here for a bit.

First things first. I'm relatively new to the hobby, but I've been aware of it for a while, and have had several friends who play who've been playing a long time. We have all came to the same conclusion, folks don't paint anymore.

I blame video games and Mtv.

Instant gratification and dwindling attention spans FTL...

Because after all, it's morally offensive to use unpainted toy soldiers.

I have a 5,000 point CSM force. Of that, 3,500 is unpainted or in various stages of painting. I admit that I was younger and stupid then, and continuously bought new units without finishing the previous ones. This built up and up until I realised the huge amount of work I'd have to do to get the army tabletop-ready.

My excuse is that I had most of this stuff from CSM 3rd Codex era, and took a long break from the hobby to focus on my education (I was in University and the workload really didn't allow for me to spend my time painting).

When I did finally graduate and got back into the hobby (about six months ago at most), I found that the CSM Codex had been updated (to 4th). Upon reading it, I hated that the character of the Chaos Legions had been all but removed and they played like a more generic force. That really annoyed me, and I stopped collecting CSM. Unfortunately, the byproduct of this is that I still have 3,500pts of CSM that aren't even basecoated.

The good news is that my newest army (Blood Angels) I really enjoy painting, and I want them to look the best force I've ever painted up.

As for why other people don't paint- I guess some people will have similar stories to mine, but other people are simply more interested in the gaming side and might really detest painting. I used to rush my painting to get models on the table when I first started, but now I'm spending a week or more of casual painting on one unit and finding it fun.

Once many years ago one of the LFGS had a "Painting Day" insted of a "Game Day". That helped alot.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Because after all, it's morally offensive to use unpainted toy soldiers.

Not really. But it isn't as visually stimulating. Depends on what you look to get out of your games.

Heck by your argument you should have no issue with my using appropriately sized/based cardboard cutouts...

romulus571 wrote:The way I see it the average player has limited time and/or money to dedicate to the hobby. They can either use that time to paint great figs, or they can use that time to improve their game. Or both, if they have lots of time. My gaming group is evidence of this... the players with better paintjobs tend to care less about the gaming aspect, so they get the snot beat out of them when the ranks of gray and black tourney soldiers show up. It's all about priorities I guess. I don't care if I win, as long as the other player is going "oooooh pretty" as I carry my figs to the casualty table.

My sentaments exactly.

During tournaments, my game store usualy offers a "Best Appearance" prize in addition to the general "I beat you up" prize. Its ususaly the same thing too. So if I win best apearance, I'm just as big of a winner even if I lost every single match!

I'm definitely more of a painter than a gamer. I don't have an army but it's something I'm slowly working on. I've written my army list and it is something I'm happy with. I want to get better at painting before i start spending money on my army. I have practiced so far on 3-4 models. I'm converting some HQ's at the moment and once I've finished painting them I'm going to buy my army one unit at a time and paint them till i finish then get the next unit.

I've thought about it a lot and know that if i spend £200-300 on an army in one go I won't finish it all and end up starting something else. I figured if i can see my efforts progressing I'm going to want to carry it through and eventually play with it. If I buy 1500-2000pts worth of stuff and assemble it in one go It would be incredibly daunting to paint it all.

Plus it will be easier on my wallet.



As I haven't played I can't say how I would react to playing someone with a half finished/unfinished painted army. I think I would be disappointed but ultimately it would make me feel better about my own army. If i knew the person was a good painter (or really liked painting) but hadn't gotten round to it yet then I wouldn't mind.



Slappy

I love painting, and love seeing full painted armies.

My problem is that a few years ago and even recently up to a year ago, I took an addictive binge and bought so much stuff that the best I could do was undercoat everything.

I do Love seeing consistency and completeness in painted armies, but I really havent had the time until now, due to being at university for 5 years!

Ive now got to finish 4.2k Dark eldar, 2.2k Orks, 2.1k Tau, and 1.8k Crimson fists. Even tho I want to complete my armies to 4.5, and the rest 2.5.

Anpu42 wrote:Once many years ago one of the LFGS had a "Painting Day" insted of a "Game Day". That helped alot.

That would absolutely be perfect. Being able to see how its done in person would be a huge benefit to a lot of people.

I think that many people just want to play the game and cant be bothered to paint. Ive seen a lot of necron armies because of this, a simple spray of metallic spray paint and you have a decent looking army in no time.

I'd love to have my orkz completely converted and painted, but I just don't have the time or drive, university and all.

I go out of my way to paint the standout units to the best of my ability, and they usually look great, but I just don't have the time or money to get everything as perfect as I'd like.

I'm loathe to field unpainted units in anything other than a house game. I love the hobby as a whole, though painting and converting are probably 90% total and playing the game is only 10%.

I had much greater enjoyment when I put the final brushstrokes on my completely converted exodite dragon lord than I did when I used him in my club game. Not everyone feels the same way I do and I'm cool with that.

However, I always ask the gray army of doom players if they'd like some help painting their armies - three color standard is pretty simple, very cheap, and looks great at arm's length. I get to pass on any tricks or tips to make the job easier and they get painted units.

I think the reason people have lots of unpainted stuff is as follows;

1) some people just wanna game. Some people don't have the time, or patience, to sit there and paint armys.

2) Outpacing. Some people, like myself, buy so much stuff that they can't possibly paint it all in a timely manner.

3) Patience. Peoples patience in our day and age is very, very short. We have internet and fast food mentalitys, I want it done, and I want it done NOW!

I believe that warhammer hobbying isn't for everyone. Then again on the converse, for every unpainted, unprimed army I've seen plenty of awesomely painted/converted armys. It just depends on the person

Hmm I can solve this Prob. Powergaming destroyed Painting, like so many elements of the hobby.

1.why bother painting an army if you just got it because the interweb said it's the most powerful. you don't care about the fluff, your army or having fun, so why care about painting.

example 'Ard boyz and other tournies ecourage you to
brink the most OP list you can, paining not required.

2.When the next codex comes out and nerfs the one before it, it's easy to sell unpainted minis

example check any trade section in any 40k fourum. Most people want unpainted minis. Point is, they are worth more unpainted. It's not like Power gamers spend time paints when fine tuning a list to win is the only goal.

3.No attachment to thier armies. Remember when everybody had an iron warriors list then Black templars, then eldar falchons spam, then tau castle, then Lash oblit plague, then nob bikers, and now Mech-vet IG.....

Nobody cares about fluff, or bothering to give a damn about thier army. "Yeah this is my slannesh daemon prince with a lash, and this is his twin brother, they don't have names or a back story, or a goal, or paint, I just heard I could win with them..."

In closing blaming new people is a straw-man tactic.Unpainted armies are easy to get and trade second hand and when all you care about is winning, why bother painting.

sexiest_hero wrote:Hmm I can solve this Prob. Powergaming destroyed Painting, like so many elements of the hobby.

1.why bother painting an army if you just got it because the interweb said it's the most powerful. you don't care about the fluff, your army or having fun, so why care about painting.

example 'Ard boyz and other tournies ecourage you to
brink the most OP list you can, paining not required.

2.When the next codex comes out and nerfs the one before it, it's easy to sell unpainted minis

example check any trade section in any 40k fourum. Most people want unpainted minis. Point is, they are worth more unpainted. It's not like Power gamers spend time paints when fine tuning a list to win is the only goal.

3.No attachment to thier armies. Remember when everybody had an iron warriors list then Black templars, then eldar falchons spam, then tau castle, then Lash oblit plague, then nob bikers, and now Mech-vet IG.....

Nobody cares about fluff, or bothering to give a damn about thier army. "Yeah this is my slannesh daemon prince with a lash, and this is his twin brother, they don't have names or a back story, or a goal, or paint, I just heard I could win with them..."

In closing blaming new people is a straw-man tactic.Unpainted armies are easy to get and trade second hand and when all you care about is winning, why bother painting.

Sad but true to some degree...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again now:
With the availability of inexpensive third world painting services (a number of folks in my local historical gaming group have used "Fernando" in Sri Lanka and are happy with the result), there is simply no legitimate excuse not to have painted models.

TR

sexiest_hero wrote:Hmm I can solve this Prob. Powergaming destroyed Painting, like so many elements of the hobby.

1.why bother painting an army if you just got it because the interweb said it's the most powerful. you don't care about the fluff, your army or having fun, so why care about painting.

example 'Ard boyz and other tournies ecourage you to
brink the most OP list you can, paining not required.

2.When the next codex comes out and nerfs the one before it, it's easy to sell unpainted minis

example check any trade section in any 40k fourum. Most people want unpainted minis. Point is, they are worth more unpainted. It's not like Power gamers spend time paints when fine tuning a list to win is the only goal.

3.No attachment to thier armies. Remember when everybody had an iron warriors list then Black templars, then eldar falchons spam, then tau castle, then Lash oblit plague, then nob bikers, and now Mech-vet IG.....

Nobody cares about fluff, or bothering to give a damn about thier army. "Yeah this is my slannesh daemon prince with a lash, and this is his twin brother, they don't have names or a back story, or a goal, or paint, I just heard I could win with them..."

In closing blaming new people is a straw-man tactic.Unpainted armies are easy to get and trade second hand and when all you care about is winning, why bother painting.

Somewhat forceful but I'd say there was some truth in this.