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I have 6 painted armies, I'm working on two more. 95% of all of these have been completed in the last 2-3 years. I won't even play with an army until it's painted.

Though I should mention I don't care if someone else doesn't paint their stuff, though I will say that you won't get better if you don't do it. So for people who use the excuse "I don't paint because I suck." I'd like to respond with: "You suck at painting because you don't paint."

Saldiven wrote:

R3con wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Most people who don't paint their figures are basically n00bs who will probably drop out of wargaming as fast as they bought into it.

Nearly anyone who is serious about tabletop games will come to paint their figures because that is the point of playing tabletop games.

Eh i consider myself serioius i've played since 2nd ed....but working 50+ hours a week and having kids my painting time for my new armies is just about nil...

I have to schedual games 2 weeks out to get to play.

I'm lucky if I find the time to paint 2-3 figures a month...much less a whole army.

Um, KK, I've been playing 40K since about 1988-89. I can't remember which year Rogue Trader came out, but I still have the first print book on my bookshelf at home that I bought when I was in high school.

Painting is the reason YOU play table top games. It is not THE point of playing table top games. In the 30 years that I have been gaming, I feel it is safe to bet that I have played more table top games than you've ever heard of, and I stopped enjoying painting about the time I got my first girlfriend.

See, that kind of commentary is the obnoxious elitism that I hate from some people whenever these threads about army painting come up.

You don't want to play me because you (not you, specifically, KK) don't like the degree to which my army is painted? Well, that's just fine. Based on some of the comments that I have seen on this and other threads from the painting proponent crowd, I'd probably not enjoy the game anyway.

Did you mean to quote me, because I was in complete agreement with you......simmer down lol.

Platuan4th wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:What really irks me are collectors, though, who hoard 20+ year old blisters of models, never to open them and certainly never to play with any of their prized collectibles. W

I see this same problem in the toy collecting community and still have a problem with it. Why would you buy something and not enjoy it to the fullest?

As Toyfaire says, there's no point in collecting toys if you can't take them out of the package and play with them(and if that bothers you, buy 2 copies).

Comic book collectors do it too, which is sad. A lot of them collect mint copies of issues eternally bound in cellophane and probably locked in a dark room to stop the covers from fading, too. And these are people who claim to love comic books...

I think its because some people think its a bother to paint them.
I'm 13,brand new to painting and I've just finished my first battleforce and I'm quite proud.Everything I paint I show to my parents,but still some people just don't like painting

malfred wrote:I don't need you to paint to enjoy the game.

I do need myself to paint to enjoy the game.

QFT.

I paint all my stuff. If it wasn't for the painting, I wouldn't be in the hobby.

However, having said that, I just put together 2000 points of Space Wolves and still have 35 odd models to paint. I'm probably not going to get them all painted before I play my first game with the army. However, I will probably have it all painted before my 6th.

If you take 2-3 years with GWs current strategy half of it will be OOP by the time you come to play.

Kilkrazy wrote:Most people who don't paint their figures are basically n00bs who will probably drop out of wargaming as fast as they bought into it.

Nearly anyone who is serious about tabletop games will come to paint their figures because that is the point of playing tabletop games.

I have to disagree with you. How you come to the conclusion that painting is the point of playing tabletop games is beyond me. One could say that painting is the point of building a diorama or entering a painfully converted/painted model into a painting contest, but I think more people play out of a love of the game than an overall love of the hobby.

I paint my minis and take pride in doing so. It's always nice to have somebody come up to me at my flgs and compliment me on my figures. I also enjoy seeing and playing against other painted armies. It does make the game experience more dynamic. But I have no problem getting in a good game against an unpainted army. It's better than not getting in a game at all.

Painting is an important part of the GW hobby but not everyone who loves and plays 40k really want to be a part of the whole hobby. I don't mess with greenstuff at all because I don't have the patience for sculpting. The only conversions I do are basic kit bashes. So I can understand how some people may be so frustrated with painting that they choose to play a grey army instead. Honestly sometimes an all grey army looks better than some of the paintjobs you see.

In my humble opinion, and I don't mean to step on anyone's feelings here, but I honestly don't get people who play Warhammer or 40k who aren't into painting/modelling. If the game didn't have such a strong hobby element, I don't think it would be worth playing, as there are way better strategy/battle computer or board games out there.

The Warhammer hobby to me is all about the models, and GW shows this to be their focus as well, releasing great models and only so-so codeci for games with rather outdated engines.

I am simply mystified by people who play the game without painting (or getting someone else to) their figs. The figs are what makes the games so freakin' expensive, so if I wasn't into them, I would probably just go play Total War.

I'll answer that. In order are my favorite aspects of the hobby:

1) Discussing the game/fluff.
2) Gaming
3) Building/Painting Terrain
4) Collecting/Building the models

Then we go waaaaaay down to #5...


5) Painting

See, there is a lot I can get satisfaction from in this hobby without painting any of my miniatures. What I don't get are people who claim to tell me that I'm doing it wrong.

I do paint my armies, but progress is extremely slow for several reasons:

1) Numbers. I do Orcs & Skaven for Fantasy, Mordor Orcs for LotR / WotR, and Space Marines, Chaos Marines, and Orks for 40K. There are a lot of models to be painted (my Orc army for WHFB for instance, which isn't even fully assembled, has over 250 infantry models, plus another 35+ cavalry models). I own easily over 500 GW models. Now, while I can say at least a good 100+ models painted, there's always more to be done.

2) Time. Due to college, I am out of the house (and thus, unable to touch my models) for about 9 hours / day. After this, at least two of my classes homework (due to software) can only be done at home, thus that eats further into GW hobby time. Add in meals at home, house work, etcetera, I have about 6 hours free each day. For most people, that would be plenty enough to finish even 400+ models in under a year. However, number three...

3) Paint times. I am not the best painter, but I can paint at least somewhat decently. The catch? As my skills progress, so does my desire to keep all my models up to the rising standard. Right now, I can paint pretty decent Black Orcs (highlighted, no color bleed, etc). At a rate of about one for every hour, not jumping between models and going straight to another paint color after the first is "done" / starting to dry. Thus, even with no distractions and non-stop work, I'll maybe be able to get a rank done a day, if I don't shoot myself because of #4.

4) Tedium. Orcs have a lot of flesh that needs to be painted. Or armor, in the case of Black Orcs. Painting one model's skin is fun. Painting two is tolerable. Painting 250+ green skinned models? Torture, especially when half of them are at least three colors / coats.

Oh yeah, and #5 is the main reason I'm not painting right now:

5) Bugger stole my detail brush at GW a short while ago, haven't been able to find a substitute yet. With only a standard / large bristled brush, I can't get much work done besides simple things like weapons, undercoats, etc.

So, to sum it up for me: Numbers, time to paint, time to finish models, tedium of attempts at speed-painting, thief taking my tools.

EDIT: 500 models, forgot to include my Skaven's numbers somehow.

Yeah, I don't see why someone has to paint their 40k/FB army to enjoy the hobby when it's not the only reason for playing 40k.

Some of the Warmachine/Horde sculpts blow GW out of the water and in theory it's cheaper to play (as 300-500 seems the norm for game size so can play for less than $100US) but the background for the world and for the factions doesn't suck me in as much as 40k does.

The game is fun, I have tried it before I'll give it that (and in some ways it's more fun than 40k) but I play 40k for the background for the system as a whole and for the armies themselves.

When it comes to background no miniature gaming company in the world comes even close to GW.

I'm slow at painting. I am making progress but I might paint a squad every month if I push myself, 99% of my nid army is unpainted, has been that way for 3 years. I enjoy painting but there are other things I enjoy more and even though I get teased about it I'm not disallowed from playing 40k by my friends just because my dudes are only primed.

hmm nevermind

nathonicus wrote:In my humble opinion, and I don't mean to step on anyone's feelings here, but I honestly don't get people who play Warhammer or 40k who aren't into painting/modelling. If the game didn't have such a strong hobby element, I don't think it would be worth playing, as there are way better strategy/battle computer or board games out there.

The Warhammer hobby to me is all about the models, and GW shows this to be their focus as well, releasing great models and only so-so codeci for games with rather outdated engines.

I am simply mystified by people who play the game without painting (or getting someone else to) their figs. The figs are what makes the games so freakin' expensive, so if I wasn't into them, I would probably just go play Total War.

It is only (and others of the same ilk) that say there is a strong hobby element to the game. For other's there isn't. What is it that is difficult about respecting other people's opinions that you (and others) seem to have some much difficulting in doing?

Did you read the rest of the thread?

Some people like to paint. Some people like to play. Some people like to play and paint. Seriously, what is so f'ing difficult to understanding that? What makes that so "mystified" to you? It's that difficult to understand? Really?

fullheadofhair wrote:

nathonicus wrote:In my humble opinion, and I don't mean to step on anyone's feelings here, but I honestly don't get people who play Warhammer or 40k who aren't into painting/modelling. If the game didn't have such a strong hobby element, I don't think it would be worth playing, as there are way better strategy/battle computer or board games out there.

The Warhammer hobby to me is all about the models, and GW shows this to be their focus as well, releasing great models and only so-so codeci for games with rather outdated engines.

I am simply mystified by people who play the game without painting (or getting someone else to) their figs. The figs are what makes the games so freakin' expensive, so if I wasn't into them, I would probably just go play Total War.

It is only (and others of the same ilk) that say there is a strong hobby element to the game. For other's there isn't. What is it that is difficult about respecting other people's opinions that you (and others) seem to have some much difficulting in doing?

Did you read the rest of the thread?

Some people like to paint. Some people like to play. Some people like to play and paint. Seriously, what is so f'ing difficult to understanding that? What makes that so "mystified" to you? It's that difficult to understand? Really?

I agree, i really want to see a reply from nathonicus himself .

Minsc wrote: The catch? As my skills progress, so does my desire to keep all my models up to the rising standard.

I feel your pain. I really do. A large number of my nids have been painted 2-3 times over the years as I have progressed in skill. To me, "grey" figures look better than my "learning curve" painted figures. I just can't stand to look at them. So far, the following need to be repainted:

5 Ravenors

6 DS Warriors

3 CC Warriors

3 Zoes

15 Hormies

3 BC Bikes

10 BC

10 GH

WP

2 WG

augustus5 wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Most people who don't paint their figures are basically n00bs who will probably drop out of wargaming as fast as they bought into it.

Nearly anyone who is serious about tabletop games will come to paint their figures because that is the point of playing tabletop games.

I have to disagree with you. How you come to the conclusion that painting is the point of playing tabletop games is beyond me. One could say that painting is the point of building a diorama or entering a painfully converted/painted model into a painting contest, but I think more people play out of a love of the game than an overall love of the hobby.

.

I don't think painting is the point of the hobby. Playing games with nice looking figures is the point of the hobby.

I don't care how they get painted. Paint them yourself, or buy them pre-painted, or buy secondhand models which are already painted, or send your models away for painting.

It's aesthetics.

Anyway, good for you, painting your figures.

There's a very simple answer to this question.

People are lazy. I know I wouldn't get didily squat painted myself if I didn't have an upcoming RTT looming over my head. But also, at one time I liked painting/building models with my family, I got into this hoby partly for the game, but partly to bring that back.

carmachu wrote:

ph34r wrote:
Sorry, but you are the only one ASSuming here. I didn't say that all people who don't paint their armies are lazy. You ASSumed that I meant that. You are wrong. I am aware of people who don't paint their armies. I won't try to stop them or berate them for doing what they do, but I won't want to play them.

You can keep implying I'm a donkey's behind,

Merely poking fun at you after you were so kind to CAPITALIZE your "assuming" to make your point.

carmachu wrote: but no matter what you say now, your words prior give lie to that you didnt say it.

I said what I said, it is as plain as day. If you want to test your army while you paint it, sure. If you are not going to paint your army, no. If there are complicated circumstances, then I will not pile all reasons into one yes or no.
Some people have legitimate/logical reasons to not paint their armies. Some people really are just lazy.

R3con wrote:
Did you mean to quote me, because I was in complete agreement with you......simmer down lol.

Oh, so sorry. I was agreeing with you, but I couldn't find KK's original post to quote.

Many apologies if it seemed as if I was mistakenly directing aggression your way

LunaHound wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:

nathonicus wrote:
I am simply mystified by people who play the game without painting (or getting someone else to) their figs. The figs are what makes the games so freakin' expensive, so if I wasn't into them, I would probably just go play Total War.

Some people like to paint. Some people like to play. Some people like to play and paint. Seriously, what is so f'ing difficult to understanding that? What makes that so "mystified" to you? It's that difficult to understand? Really?

I agree, i really want to see a reply from nathonicus himself .

I am guessing it is because he can't divource his reasons for joining the hobbie from the hobbie itself.

nathonicus wrote:In my humble opinion, and I don't mean to step on anyone's feelings here, but I honestly don't get people who play Warhammer or 40k who aren't into painting/modelling. If the game didn't have such a strong hobby element, I don't think it would be worth playing, as there are way better strategy/battle computer or board games out there.

The Warhammer hobby to me is all about the models, and GW shows this to be their focus as well, releasing great models and only so-so codeci for games with rather outdated engines.

I am simply mystified by people who play the game without painting (or getting someone else to) their figs. The figs are what makes the games so freakin' expensive, so if I wasn't into them, I would probably just go play Total War.

Ah, but there are also other tabletop wargaming companies out there with comparably good models and way better rules.

Why do you play GW games instead of one of them?

Personally, I play any of the games to have a dynamic and entertaining social experience with slightly competitive overtones. Painting, to me, is an evil that prevents me from having 6-10 armies instead of 2.

fullheadofhair wrote:

MisterMoon wrote:
OK let me expand my logic.... again....

I like to play, but with painted armies, against folks who like to play, but with painted armies. I don't play with nor associate with A-holes or those who power-game with TFG's. In other words having a fully painted army won't automatically qualify you to be someone I play against, but having a fully unpainted army would certainly eliminate you in most circumstances.

That attitude has just added you to my list of people I hope to never have to play against.

Really? It sounds like he goes to great lengths to make the gaming experience a pleasant one for himself and his opponent. Is it that you "hope to never play him" because you don't like pleasant gaming experiences or is it that you are one of those power-gamers that so many people find playing against distasteful? ?

ChaosDave wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:

MisterMoon wrote:
OK let me expand my logic.... again....

I like to play, but with painted armies, against folks who like to play, but with painted armies. I don't play with nor associate with A-holes or those who power-game with TFG's. In other words having a fully painted army won't automatically qualify you to be someone I play against, but having a fully unpainted army would certainly eliminate you in most circumstances.

That attitude has just added you to my list of people I hope to never have to play against.

Really? It sounds like he goes to great lengths to make the gaming experience a pleasant one for himself and his opponent. Is it that you "hope to never play him" because you don't like pleasant gaming experiences or is it that you are one of those power-gamers that so many people find playing against distasteful? ?

Neither actually. I build one list, it rarely changes and has all models in it I like. I will suffer a crap unit because it looks to cool not to have. I don't like to play against people who choose not to play others solely on the basis of unpainted models because chances are they are going to be pedantic holes I don't want to waste my very limited gaming time with. I would rather play with the person who is more relaxed irregardless of how many models he has painted.

As far as I'm concerned, the rules for 40k and FB are too poorly written to just play them. The game is just an addition to the hobby aspect.

Probly far behind but I live in ATL too and while I do see tons of unpainted armies here at Gigabites Cafe and the Last tourney at Tower Games I went to were almost all painted were a couple unpainted. In general play most people with alot of unpainted stuff because they don't use it for tourny play but if I walk up right now to gigabites which I am about to I know I can get a game with a fully painted army

fullheadofhair wrote:

ChaosDave wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:

MisterMoon wrote:
OK let me expand my logic.... again....

I like to play, but with painted armies, against folks who like to play, but with painted armies. I don't play with nor associate with A-holes or those who power-game with TFG's. In other words having a fully painted army won't automatically qualify you to be someone I play against, but having a fully unpainted army would certainly eliminate you in most circumstances.

That attitude has just added you to my list of people I hope to never have to play against.

Really? It sounds like he goes to great lengths to make the gaming experience a pleasant one for himself and his opponent. Is it that you "hope to never play him" because you don't like pleasant gaming experiences or is it that you are one of those power-gamers that so many people find playing against distasteful? ?

Neither actually. I build one list, it rarely changes and has all models in it I like. I will suffer a crap unit because it looks to cool not to have. I don't like to play against people who choose not to play others solely on the basis of unpainted models because chances are they are going to be pedantic holes I don't want to waste my very limited gaming time with. I would rather play with the person who is more relaxed irregardless of how many models he has painted.

Interesting... You both have essentially the same argument for not playing certain people. He wants the best gaming experience for his limited time just like you, only he chooses to play against people who obviously take the hobby seriously enough to paint their figures. You on the other hand won't play against people who want to maximize their gaming experience from a visual stand point. Very similar outlooks from the hobby side vs the gaming side. As far as I can see you both are exactly the same, 2 sides of the same coin.

I have to be in the mood to paint if im bored i wont paint. Painting is a hobby for me so when i have time and feel like enjoying it iwil paint for a few days and knock out a few squads to half a army.... but once it feels like a chore or a job..... i stop painting.. my two cents

LunaHound wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:

nathonicus wrote:In my humble opinion, and I don't mean to step on anyone's feelings here, but I honestly don't get people who play Warhammer or 40k who aren't into painting/modelling. If the game didn't have such a strong hobby element, I don't think it would be worth playing, as there are way better strategy/battle computer or board games out there.

The Warhammer hobby to me is all about the models, and GW shows this to be their focus as well, releasing great models and only so-so codeci for games with rather outdated engines.

I am simply mystified by people who play the game without painting (or getting someone else to) their figs. The figs are what makes the games so freakin' expensive, so if I wasn't into them, I would probably just go play Total War.

It is only (and others of the same ilk) that say there is a strong hobby element to the game. For other's there isn't. What is it that is difficult about respecting other people's opinions that you (and others) seem to have some much difficulting in doing?

Did you read the rest of the thread?

Some people like to paint. Some people like to play. Some people like to play and paint. Seriously, what is so f'ing difficult to understanding that? What makes that so "mystified" to you? It's that difficult to understand? Really?

I agree, i really want to see a reply from nathonicus himself .

Hey, I said "mystified" 'cuz I just don't get it! I didn't say that any other point of view is wrong, or bad, and I certainly DO respect other peoples' opinions.

I thought I had prefaced my statement enough to make people realize I wasn't flaming anyone or criticizing someone, but let me just make it clear: "I'M NOT JUDGING ANYONE!"

Are people who care little or nothing about the Hobby aspect of the game wrong or aberrant in some way? No, certainly not, and I've had fun games against people who literally dumped their army out of a cardboard box before the battle.


I guess what I am trying to get across by saying I'm "mystified" is that if I didn't care about the appearance of the figures, I would rather play an RPG, PC RTS game, or just about anything else. If I'm not indulging in the spectacle of the miniature model hobby, I don't get the appeal of the game. ( I DO understand the appeal of the backstory - it's awesome, but I can indulge my fascination with that in the forums, reading the books, or playing an awesome game like Chaos in the Old World or Space Hulk.)

In any case, didn't mean to upset anyone. The hobby is certainly large enough for people of all walks.








Automatically Appended Next Post:

Saldiven wrote:

nathonicus wrote:In my humble opinion, and I don't mean to step on anyone's feelings here, but I honestly don't get people who play Warhammer or 40k who aren't into painting/modelling. If the game didn't have such a strong hobby element, I don't think it would be worth playing, as there are way better strategy/battle computer or board games out there.

The Warhammer hobby to me is all about the models, and GW shows this to be their focus as well, releasing great models and only so-so codeci for games with rather outdated engines.

I am simply mystified by people who play the game without painting (or getting someone else to) their figs. The figs are what makes the games so freakin' expensive, so if I wasn't into them, I would probably just go play Total War.

Ah, but there are also other tabletop wargaming companies out there with comparably good models and way better rules.

Why do you play GW games instead of one of them?

Personally, I play any of the games to have a dynamic and entertaining social experience with slightly competitive overtones. Painting, to me, is an evil that prevents me from having 6-10 armies instead of 2.

I see what you're saying, but for those elements I would rather play a board game. It's less setup, money, maintenance, and probably will have better rules. Plus I can buy a new one for the cost of a box set or two. I play GW games instead of something else, because I started with them back when I got into it 12 years ago, and I haven't found another company with minis I like more than GW's on a consistent basis.

I guess here's what I don't get: why pay all the money to play 40k if you like the gaming experience chiefly? There are way cheaper/less time-intensive ways to get a game on in a cool alternate world. (See Battlelore, Tannhauser, AT43, etc). I guess that is my main question. Why not pick up the latest Black Library novel for your fluff fix and then hit board game night for the competitive play fix and spend about 10% the cost of 40k?

(And just because the internet is tone neutral, let me state I'm not trying to be a dick - this is the point that I really am honestly asking about! )

Oh, and in closing, no-one should ever tell another nerd that they are "doing it wrong" or to get out of the hobby - that stuff is for non-nerds! (Unless of course, you're being mean. And then you are doing it wrong. Being a nerd is all about the love!)

MisterMoon wrote:Why don't people paint anymore?

It's my experience that it has always been this way. At least for the last 15 years. The overwhelming majority of people play unpainted/partially painted armies. As we all know, it's very easy to get overwhelmed in this hobby. It is commonplace to buy minis often enough to outweigh your speed at paining. Soon, you find yourself in a sea a grey plastic and boxes of unbuilt kits.

Sadly, though, sooo many people just want to play the game and don't want to paint, can't paint, don't have time to paint, whatever.

It's always been this way.



Ghidorah

ChaosDave wrote:

Interesting... You both have essentially the same argument for not playing certain people. He wants the best gaming experience for his limited time just like you, only he chooses to play against people who obviously take the hobby seriously enough to paint their figures. You on the other hand won't play against people who want to maximize their gaming experience from a visual stand point. Very similar outlooks from the hobby side vs the gaming side. As far as I can see you both are exactly the same, 2 sides of the same coin.

Nope wrong again.

I won't play against people smug enough to think theirs is the only approach to the hobby.

By smug, I mean comments like "people who obviously take the hobby seriously enough to paint their figures". It is people who make smug comments like that and sit in judgement of less mortals by dictating how they should enjoy the hobby that I don't wish to play against.

Seriously, why do people who make comments like "people who obviously take the hobby seriously enough to paint their figures" think their opinion actually counts for anything on how others decide to take part in a fun hobby.

Sure, people are certainly entitled to say that they will only play against painted armies because that is their choice. Not that many people objects to that line of thinking, but usually it is accompanied by comments like playing with "people who obviously take the hobby seriously enough to paint their figures". When they say that they are stepping over the line and being smug and holier than thou.

I believe that people who use phrase like "people who obviously take the hobby seriously enough to paint their figures" in judgement of others are going to be a pain in the ass to play against so I choose not to play them.