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I'm going to get on my soap box here for a bit.

First things first. I'm relatively new to the hobby, but I've been aware of it for a while, and have had several friends who play who've been playing a long time. We have all came to the same conclusion, folks don't paint anymore.

I grade my painting as just slightly above average. However, that average is hard to judge as so few folks paint anymore. I live in northeast Atlanta. We have a Games Workshop store and a very large private shop. The guys who work at the Games Workshop have virtually nothing painted in their own private possession- even their former black shirt had army caseS (with an S) of unpainted minis. The private store is a slightly different story as the store owners have vast collections that are beautifully painted, but many GOOD gamers show up half painted- or not painted at all. I got into the hobby with the idea that everyone painted their armies, and would be ashamed to bring unpainted minis to a gaming table. At this point I have no idea where I got into this assumption. However, it'd seem to me that if you spend 50 bucks on a model kit you'd want to do more than just glue it together, more importantly if you invest all the money and time into this hobby you'd want to do it right and paint; and if you didn't know how, you'd want to learn. I know several folks will think I'm elitist or call me names like paint nazi et al. but I seriously did get into this hobby for the visual stimulation from seeing a fully modeled miniaturization of a futuristic or fantasy battlefield.

I've heard all the excuses. I say save your money and get a RTSG on the PC or XBOX. I get told that they enjoy the game and the social element. I say quite seriously that what you do with your money is your business but if you aren't going to do it right, save that money and just a piece of paper and write ORKS on it, instead of buying the fifty dollar kit of orks. One analogy I use which I think is pretty strong. If I staple some HO tracks to a plain piece of wood and put a train on it I'm technically into model trains. However, I'm no where near they guy who's got the entire city scape built up. Now I understand that you must START with some HO tracks stapled to plain wood, but it seems many gamers are happy stopping right there and never fully appreciating the hobby.

To sum it up- if both armies aren't painted then to me the visual element is lost and I'm 12 years old again playing Risk. I don't get the stimulating simulation feel that I get from seeing two painted armies, even half decently painted.

I understand what your saying, When thier painted you really feel like emercing your self into the hobby and unleashing your inner nerd! Heck when I played with my brothers friends Black templars I was reading thier oaths aload and yelling for the Emporer, the fact of the matter is it really gets you into it to have them painted and when you've painted them yourself you get a swelling sense of pride everytime you look at them and I really understand what your saying!

Although I agree with you to some extents, youve got to realize that this hobby has alot of different elements in it that draw people to it for some reason or another. And not everyone will share the same opinion on that element.
Sure your into this the the dynamic of it all, and thats fine. I think I like fluff and customizing the most. I play fluffy armies, and read the backgrounds to get more into what Im doing. Others are more into the tournament aspect. They want to build the hardiest build and just beat the pants out of everyone. Painters like to spend WAY more time on how pretty their armies look, and really dont care if a certain squad is ACTUALLY codex correct. Then others are there to get out of the house, and hang with some friends shooting the breeze and blow the occasional vehicle up.
Are any of those people wrong? Not at all. They all enjoy different parts of the same game. And just because you want everything painted to play, doesnt mean that they all agree with on that.

I get the same feeling, although i will play with my army if some parts are unpainted. I just prefer to play after I've finished the whole thing. and what irritates me most is when i go to all the effort to paint, convert, and base 4000 points of Orks, and the average army is completely unpainted or at best merely basecoated.

children of filth wrote:I get the same feeling, although i will play with my army if some parts are unpainted. I just prefer to play after I've finished the whole thing. and what irritates me most is when i go to all the effort to paint, convert, and base 4000 points of Orks, and the average army is completely unpainted or at best merely basecoated.

Lol I do agree there. Ive got just over 2000pts of Orks, still ALOT of Orks, and I dont think the excuse "well theres so much to paint" is a valid excuse when Ive got 3 times the minis to paint, and they mostly are painted

For the people that insist on others to hastily paint their army for the sake of visual appeal for your gaming experience i suggest you visit the swap shop.

There you'll see the heart breaking stories of people painting their army , some even had them commission painted.

At the end of the day, all the effort , time , $ spent on it fetches them below 20% off retail value , due to the buyer want to strip the paint off.

I have a less than half painted army. I've been building the army faster than I can paint them, and I'm a slow painter. I'm not very good, but I'm pretty meticulous. I work on painting them a little bit at a time due to having a life outside of Warhammer. I'd love to have them all painted, and hope one day to, but 30 SoB, 45 GK, 100+ guardsmen, and vehicles for all the above to ride around in don't exactly paint themselves.

I have had paint issues in the past, some of them silly. Once not long after the 2nd edition Space Wolf Codex came out I fielded a mostly painted SW army. The base was Primer Grey, and one of my opponents refused to play my Space Wolves because they were not “Space Wolf Grey”. I have used Primer Grey sense 1st Edition/RT days.
I don’t have problems playing against a primed or unpainted army, as long next week a few more have been painted.
Currently my SW army is now going though a repaint now all thanks to Dakka. A test bed figure I just did for how to paint a MotW figure turned out so well, that I am now repainting the whole army.

Painting is an issue with some people but if you work hard and reward yourself it works and ur army is painted in no time.

I don't need you to paint to enjoy the game.

I do need myself to paint to enjoy the game.

I feel the same way. I mean, me personally I refuse to field any piece that's not painted. Now that might be a bit extreme, but to me its not worth fielding if its not finished.

I'm a bit of perfectionist, but I've come to terms with it and it's my choice to do that. Now, I won't stop someone else from playing with a non-painted piece. But it is far better to battle someone with a fully painted army, it's just an amazing sight to behold, even if the point value is only 500. It just brings up to a whole new level, you feel more like a General issuing orders, then just a nerd at a table playing with plastic army men rolling dice.

I know most don't think of themselves like that, I'm just adding dramatization to make my point.

Cheers

malfred wrote:I don't need you to paint to enjoy the game.

I do need myself to paint to enjoy the game.

We need more people that thinks this way -_-

I need awesome paintjobs from others to inspire me.

I belong to a fairly small club, and all the players know each other pretty well. As such, I simply enjoy seeing my regular opponents with a few new models painted each time we meet. Its visually stimulating. Not having them painted is a non-issue for me, and I'd rather see well painted models that rushed jobs just so the army can be fielded.

I don't find painting as fun as modeling the figs or playing the game. Personally, I think I'm fairly good at painting when I try, I just get bored of trying to get a whole army all colored up and consider it a chore. Check my gallery and you'll find a vast selection of heavily converted stuff that's all pretty much bare. It's what I find fun and like spending my money on.

I think painting is very fun. It's awesome to see your stuff go through that transformation. That and I feel like I make progress in skill from model to model. Assembly is kind of a drag for me, however. What a pity that playing with an unassembled army is impossible.

Can I still get up on a soapbox and lecture everybody else about how playing WHFB/40k isn't about the hobby? "I'm no less into it because I refuse to put my little men together! How dare you question my preferences!" Whoops, here come the flames, gotta run!

what you're saying is very true, and i have the same problem because im playing way too many computergames insteadd of painting...

I paint, so do the people I play with and against.

Some people are just lazy or lax.

There are games with pre-painted models for these people. Push them in that direction. Better yet, arrange for someone else to play the game for them as well.

I understand completely. I continued to play my crappy chaos space marines for months while I was painting up my Orks. Now I'll suffer through the different flavor of suckitude delivered by the Orks until I get enough Tyranids finished for a game. By then, I'll be ready to start on a bunch of Skaven, and will probably be ranting about how much the Bugs let me down. Oh well, that's the life of a gamer I guess.

like awesomepaintjob says - paint your stuff.

I am one of the laziest painters out there; I have loads to do and I'm not doing it. I know it's bad, and I agree it's awesome to look at a fully (or almost fully) painted force.

I'll get there one day.

GWOZ stores used to require you to have 3 colours minimum to use models instore, they changed that rule a couple of years ago, I assume in anticipation of Apocalypse.
Now more than 50% of armies are >75% unpainted.

Most people who don't paint their figures are basically n00bs who will probably drop out of wargaming as fast as they bought into it.

Nearly anyone who is serious about tabletop games will come to paint their figures because that is the point of playing tabletop games.

Oh quiet you. Ive been painting my army almost non stop for the last 2 days and I have 3 days left to paint for the tourney.

What is the internet version of a firm handshake of approval?

MisterMoon wrote: However, that average is hard to judge as so few folks paint anymore.

Not really. Post some pics here and we can rate them in the Gallery.

I got into the hobby with the idea that everyone painted their armies, and would be ashamed to bring unpainted minis to a gaming table. At this point I have no idea where I got into this assumption.

Me neither. I mean the miniatures support a rule set with which you can use to play. So If I buy my figures to use with the ruleset then why should I need to paint them. You can buy the miniatures to hobby with or create gorgeous pieces of art but if you buy them to play a game, why do they need to be painted?

However, it'd seem to me that if you spend 50 bucks on a model kit you'd want to do more than just glue it together, more importantly if you invest all the money and time into this hobby you'd want to do it right and paint; and if you didn't know how, you'd want to learn.

Or if I spend $50 bucks I can choose to do with my figures as a I please. I'm sure there are gamers that don't understand why someone would paint a figure to a high standard to sit on a shelf. There are several folks who only paint, should the gamer chastise them to Learn the rules. Certainly they'd want to get their money's worth and play the game too. Does your chastisement go both ways? Or is it only directed at those who don't paint.

I've heard all the excuses. I say save your money and get a RTSG on the PC or XBOX. I get told that they enjoy the game and the social element.

I don't own a system or have a computer to run those type of games. Plus I hate them. I seriously love the social element and friends I've made gaming. To me that is the core to the hobby. To say I should stay in my house in front of a monitor b/c I want to play with a grey horde is ridiculous.

I say quite seriously that what you do with your money is your business

Great... we agree.

but if you aren't going to do it right, save that money and just a piece of paper and write ORKS on it, instead of buying the fifty dollar kit of orks.

Please show me the part about what is "doing it right"

One analogy I use which I think is pretty strong. e If I staple some HO tracks to a plain piece of wood and put a train on it I'm technically into model trains. However, I'm no where near they guy who's got thentire city scape built up. Now I understand that you must START with some HO tracks stapled to plain wood, but it seems many gamers are happy stopping right there and never fully appreciating the hobby.

This is a bad analogy. In model trains their is nothing that stands alone like a set of rules in GW. You also have a dynamic range of price involved from size to quality of set up. Both time and Money are large and varying factors for the train enthusiast. For a 40K set up (rules/figs) the cost is relatively the same for a 2000 pt army investment. What varies is the time afforded to painting/modeling which are not necessary to enjoy the GAME.

To sum it up- if both armies aren't painted then to me the visual element is lost and I'm 12 years old again playing Risk. I don't get the stimulating simulation feel that I get from seeing two painted armies, even half decently painted.

To bad for you. You are really missing 1/2 the point of the "Hobby". For me that is sharing an experience across the table with the gentlemen or lady. Painting... pssssh. Doesn't impact my ability to enjoy the challenge and have a few laughs with another person. To use your analogy... if you need the visual stimulation, there are plenty of great computer games or Xbox releases that have 1000% better visuals then you average painted Warhammer army on the table.

Cheers,
John

I like to paint. I suck, but I enjoy it. Every mini gets a little less train-wrecky.

I can understand why some don't however. With family, a job, and other concerns time for a hobby can be limited. Maybe all the time they've got is in the mini's. Maybe assembling them and converting a few is literally all the time they've got to devote to the hobby outside of sitting at a table? Personally I've got an hour,maybe two of free time a day to do as I please. Reading, writing, computer games, the internet, and gaming all in an hour or maybe two per day and that's usually the hour or two at the end when you're feeling tired and worn out. Time can be a major issue for some people.

I've been paintging up my CSM (very slowly) for about a year. I've still not even painted half of them. I am going to get them all painted up before I play against anyone in a store or shop... I've only ever played them against my brother, who has a mostly painted Blood Angel army (though he is currently repainting a lot of them).

Some people just don't have the time or ability to paint for the long hours it takes to get an army finished.

Though as I aluded to above, I will have a fully painted army before I take them to play in public, even if it takes me another year to do. Personally I don't mind playing against painted or unpainted armies, though it is much nicer when they are painted. I don't particularly like playing with unpainted models, but I will against my brother, because we generally just play until we have killed everything on the table and use whatever models we want rather than following the FOC, so I use unpainted stuff for that.

Anpu42 wrote:I have had paint issues in the past, some of them silly. Once not long after the 2nd edition Space Wolf Codex came out I fielded a mostly painted SW army. The base was Primer Grey, and one of my opponents refused to play my Space Wolves because they were not “Space Wolf Grey”. I have used Primer Grey sense 1st Edition/RT days.

Well they sound like a dick. Lets not conflate the people who only want to field pained armies with GW purist nazis. Yes there are some who think you can only use GW paint and clippers to make your models but that's not in the spirit of the hobby. I believe in only fielding painted armies or genuine works in progress. A genuine 'work in progress' is something that doesn't remain untouched after a year.

I believe in fielding painted armies because that's what I've grown up with as a basic expectation from wargames shows and clubs. It's my observation that stubbornly fielding an unpainted army is mostly unique to GW players, I don't know why but there you are.

I don't understand the "but my painting is awful" reason for not painting. Even the Golden Demon winners produced rubbish the first time they picked up a brush.

I, too, am in the NE Atlanta area. Do I have a painted, fieldable army? Yes, for the most part (right now the arms are off the chaos marines, but a spot of glue fixes that fast. I am also going back and re-painting them a bit, and re-basing them with resin bases).

I enjoy painting. I hate actually playing the game - I find the rules since 2nd edition to be rather lackluster (I was about to start typing why, but that's not the point of this thread). Therefore, I just don't play the game much (if at all). I somewhat enjoy watching a game, I very much enjoy seeing a well-painted army, but the rules just make me a sad panda.

My point? Different people are in the hobby for different reasons. Some are like me, and some model their wargaming after Conan - crush their enemey, see their models driven before them... you can take it from there.

KingCracker wrote:Although I agree with you to some extents, youve got to realize that this hobby has alot of different elements in it that draw people to it for some reason or another. And not everyone will share the same opinion on that element.
Sure your into this the the dynamic of it all, and thats fine. I think I like fluff and customizing the most. I play fluffy armies, and read the backgrounds to get more into what Im doing. Others are more into the tournament aspect. They want to build the hardiest build and just beat the pants out of everyone. Painters like to spend WAY more time on how pretty their armies look, and really dont care if a certain squad is ACTUALLY codex correct. Then others are there to get out of the house, and hang with some friends shooting the breeze and blow the occasional vehicle up.
Are any of those people wrong? Not at all. They all enjoy different parts of the same game. And just because you want everything painted to play, doesnt mean that they all agree with on that.

daedalus wrote:I have a less than half painted army. I've been building the army faster than I can paint them, and I'm a slow painter. I'm not very good, but I'm pretty meticulous. I work on painting them a little bit at a time due to having a life outside of Warhammer. I'd love to have them all painted, and hope one day to, but 30 SoB, 45 GK, 100+ guardsmen, and vehicles for all the above to ride around in don't exactly paint themselves.

Combine these two, and you have my oppinion and situation, except replace SoB with about 50 Chaos models and 100+ Guardsmen with almost 2000 points worth of Blood Angels

Aduro wrote:I don't find painting as fun as modeling the figs or playing the game. Personally, I think I'm fairly good at painting when I try, I just get bored of trying to get a whole army all colored up and consider it a chore. Check my gallery and you'll find a vast selection of heavily converted stuff that's all pretty much bare. It's what I find fun and like spending my money on.

I much prefer the Converting and the Gaming to the painting.

Howard A Treesong wrote:
I don't understand the "but my painting is awful" reason for not painting. Even the Golden Demon winners produced rubbish the first time they picked up a brush.

Have you seen Roleplayer's Blog?