Why don't people paint anymore?

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**LunaHound**

ph34r wrote:If someone is trying to get their army painted and can't because of situations out of their control, sure I'll play you. But if you just don't want to paint your army, I'm not going to play against you. I'm not doing anything bad by not playing someone.

I don't "look down on people". If you want to play 40k without painted models, sure, whatever. It doesn't effect me for the most part so I don't care.

See, you and yours are still doing it. Your ASSUMING that the reason the armies are unpainted is we're lazy.

You forget in your zeal, that to YOU a large part of the game is painting, that for many others? A large part of the game is....to play the game.

Sorry, but you are the only one ASSuming here. I didn't say that all people who don't paint their armies are lazy. You ASSumed that I meant that. You are wrong. I am aware of people who don't paint their armies. I won't try to stop them or berate them for doing what they do, but I won't want to play them.

In other words , are you saying you just dont have enough sympathy? -_-

**ph34r**

I should not feel the need to do something that I would rather not to fulfill the wishes of another because I feel sorry for their inability to paint their army, something that requires time (that one would spend playing the game with me) and money (that one spends on 40k in vastly greater quantities anyway). If you have really bad arthritis or something and really cannot paint then I would play against you, because it's totally out of your control at that point.

**malfred**

ph34r wrote:I should not feel the need to do something that I would rather not to fulfill the wishes of another...

*snip*

See? You do empathize with people who don't enjoy painting.

**Iron_Chaos_Brute**

A latercomer to the thread...

I personally hate painting...I find it boring, repetetive, and generally

. And I'm pretty average at it if I spend the time.

I paint because:
a) Tournaments have painting judging, and I like it when people take pictures of my army.
b) If it's a casual game, most people like to look across the table and see painted stuff. The game's about having fun, and if I have to spend a day miserable and painting away, it's worth it to let everyone else have fun.

**ph34r**

malfred wrote:
ph34r wrote:I should not feel the need to do something that I would rather not to fulfill the wishes of another...

*snip*

See? You do empathize with people who don't enjoy painting.

I don't in any way expect people to paint their armies just so that they can play me. If I expected people to paint their armies then you would have a valid point. I merely would leave those who disagree with me painting wise alone and not bother them with my views. I can't say the same for a hypothetical person who refuses to paint their army badgering me to play them.

EDIT: To put my stance even more simply, I don't expect other people to do things that they do not enjoy, and I won't do things that I do not enjoy. If you want to paint your army and play me, that's fine by me, but I won't think less of you if you don't. "Not being able to play against me" is not me forcing someone to do something that they dislike.

**AgeOfEgos**

malfred wrote:I think people with unpainted armies hide their fully painted omfglolwhut armies in another
case. What happens next is up to their opponent. If the opponent has a fit and refuses
to play the unpainted army player, the unpainter just smiles knowingly in response. If the
opponent is friendly, the unpainter swaps out his kit and *surprise* his army was painted
all along!

It's like one of those M. Night Shm.... movies.

THE GUY WITH THE UNPAINTED MOVIE WAS GHOST TOO??!

**Howlingmoon**

LunaHound wrote:
Howlingmoon wrote:
Warhammer: Go Big or Go Home.

On Topic: I paint far far more than I play.

In fact, let's see. Since I got back in at the beginning of the summer. I have spent 6+ hours a day 2+ days a week at the local GW painting/modeling. Games played? 3

Yes but as i said before, thats YOU . Other people are NOT YOU , as some of them just want to do the gaming aspect. (note, see the legoburner's thread on other aspects )
Are you denying our existence? that some how the poll are rigged and all the none painter votes are made by none humans?
Go big or Go home? what does that mean? I have every army and unit im interested in , probably enough to rival HBMC , does this mean im finally
at the standard to have an opinion?

basically it means "do not buy anything that you do not plan on keeping or using. ever."

Why? because you're not going to be able to sell it. You might be able to give it away. But a lot of people will expect you to pay them to take it.

See also: Every post I've made about the general anti-socialness of the hobby community.

**Kilkrazy**

carmachu wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kilkrazy wrote:

Nearly anyone who is serious about tabletop games will come to paint their figures because that is the point of playing tabletop games.

Really? And here I thought the point of table top games was to, you know, actually play the game. Otherwise if you want to paint there are a ton of other models you can paint.....

The point of figure games is to play with nice looking figures and scenery.

Before I started miniature wargaming, I played with hex based map wargames. It's still tabletop wargaming, and it doesn't use figures. The counters aren't very attractive, but they work well. You get a good game.

The point of playing with figures is to have nice looking counters. You actually sacrifice some degree of playability because the unit's variables are not displayed on it like they are on a counter.

Really we have a cultural split here. Some of us don't see the point in painting, and others do. Effectively (I've said this before) we have two very similar hobbies. One is playing miniature wargames with painted figures, and one is playing miniature wargames without painted figures. If people don't see the point of playing with painted figures, that's fine, but it's difficult to mix oil and water.

I'm not putting a moral spin on this, it's just that I want to play with painted figures. Why should I feel obliged to play with unpainted figures?

**Polonius**

wyomingfox wrote:
Polonius wrote:First, shut up and paint your damn army. If you don't' have time because of work, than hire a kid to throw some paint on it. If you want to paint it beautifully (and honestly, how many of those armies are finished? 5%? Fewer?), put a basecoast down, and add highlights and layers later.

Ummm...yeah, except if they don't value "painted" miniatures, they are not going to spend the money or the time to paint the miniatures. So their appropriate answer to you will be a resounding "No, I don't want to". Again, I think that most people get into this hobby, and just about any other hobby, for their personal satisfaction...not yours or anyone elses.

Moreover, what concern is it to anyone else how I paint my miniatures that I bought with my money? If I or someone else wants to paint my/their army piecemeal and to a "display" standard, then that is my/their perogative. If you don't want to play against an unpainted army, then that is your perogative.

Well, I've gone to the mat more than once for people that don't like to paint, so don't think I'm the bad guy here. The truth is that with a painted army your playing options go up. In some areas not t hat dramatically, but there still are tournaments and the like that require painted minis.

And While I think that everybody that seems to think playing against an unpainted army will give them herpes needs to get over themselves, painting is a traditional part of the hobby. Clubs, stores, tournaments, and players aren't totally out of line to ask that people paint their stuff. Painted armies are better for recruiting new players and retaining old ones.

If you're happy with the idea of those that dislike unpainted stuff not playing against you, than enjoy the status quo with my compliments. I just think it'd be better for the hobby if we had a little less balkanization.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
My point is, I think the hobby would be better if we began thinking "we all enjoy different aspects of the hobby, but we're still in the same hobby" rather than KillKrazy's "two hobby" analysis. Where I live, if I refused to play unpainted armies I'd never get a game. I can't afford to enjoy my own hobby if I actually, you know, want to play the game.

**mattyrm**

I think painting is really satisfying. I didnt when i sucked, but i got much better with practice and now i absolutely love it. I take alot of satisfaction from a well painted mini.

I think patience is the key, and alot of perseverence.

**chromedog**

LunaHound wrote:In other words , are you saying you just dont have enough sympathy? -_-

malfred wrote:See? You do empathize with people who don't enjoy painting.

Empathy is understanding what someone is feeling (and sharing in it).
Sympathy is giving a crap either way.

**Agamemnon2**

I've no problem with people who don't paint their minis. What really irks me are collectors, though, who hoard 20+ year old blisters of models, never to open them and certainly never to play with any of their prized collectibles. Which is why relish the opportunity to buy some of their precious models, slap on some paint and line them up for war.

**BrookM**

To me painting is boring and often frustrating to get it just right. I know I can get a whole lot better with practice but I've hardly got the time or the space right now for that sadly. However, I am always pretty effing pleased when I finally get a mini done. Sure, it's not up to the standards of whatever passes as the acceptable grade these days, but I'm happy and couldn't care less. So there.

**chromedog**

Agamemnon2 wrote:I've no problem with people who don't paint their minis. What really irks me are collectors, though, who hoard 20+ year old blisters of models, never to open them and certainly never to play with any of their prized collectibles. Which is why relish the opportunity to buy some of their precious models, slap on some paint and line them up for war.

these people are like the ones who hoard fine wines away, never to drink them.
They not only deprive themselves of the joys of it, but also deprive others who would more than certainly derive more enjoyment from quaffing said plonk.

They may as well just buy them to melt them down.

**Duce**

Each to their own, but i have a principle where i refuse to use a unit which is not painted, and I'm not the best painter, at the moment i do the basic colours and some details and worry about highlighting afte rthe army is complete.

**CT GAMER**

Polonius wrote:This is a great thread, it's like a Christmas Special on television: the characters change, but the plot, the lessons, and the symbols all stay constant. Let's see what we have:

1) The smug feeling of superiority some posters have over they're ability to apply paint to toys.

2) Pathetic excuses for not having anything close to a painted army, including the classic chestnut "I'm a perfectionist and I paint really slowly." But somehow having a black primered army doesn't bother them, only having an army with base colors laid down would bother them. One person asserted that they couldn't afford paints. Really? Any veteran hobbyist could sell/give you a starter paint set, or tell you were to get stuff cheap. For a basic paint job it's about a $20 buy in (can of primer, 4 paints, a scoop of dirt for basing, elmers glue, and 2 brushes).

3) Thinly veiled contempt towards people that don't paint, as if they were some lesser form of creature unfit to discuss or play games with the like of a painter.

4) The shockingly ridiculous willful ignorance that leads to statements like "if you don't want to paint, why not just use cardboard," as if a three dimensional figure with a gun and base is somehow no more representative than chits.

5) The equally confounding willfull ignorance of those that seem to think that nobody could ever enjoy 40k without painting, and that removing any one aspect of the hobby makes a persons interest in the hobby beyond all belief.

6) The bewildering posts that seem to assert that "the new generation" raised on "TV and video games" demand instant gratification. That would be true if GW was launched in 1948, but since it's been around roughly the same time as console gaming and cable TV, that reasoning seems a bit thin. Even the internet has been ubiquitous for a decade now.

7) and finally, just because it's fun, the classic example of a Mod reminding us that "Mods can have opinions." Which of course, as most readers of the OT can vouch for, really means, "Mods can have and post opinions that would get any other user scolded."

Don't forget 8) The preachers who feel the need to try t sum up every opinion in the thread from their high horses..

**carmachu**

ph34r wrote:
Sorry, but you are the only one ASSuming here. I didn't say that all people who don't paint their armies are lazy. You ASSumed that I meant that. You are wrong. I am aware of people who don't paint their armies. I won't try to stop them or berate them for doing what they do, but I won't want to play them.

You can keep implying I'm a donkey's behind, but no matter what you say now, your words prior give lie to that you didnt say it.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:
b) If it's a casual game, most people like to look across the table and see painted stuff. The game's about having fun, and if I have to spend a day miserable and painting away, it's worth it to let everyone else have fun.

Slight misconception. Having fun playing doesnt necessarily equate to a painted army. Its like the frosting or cherry on top, but doesntmake the whole game fun. Most of that comes from the player and his attitude, not the paint job.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kilkrazy wrote:

The point of figure games is to play with nice looking figures and scenery.

see, I look at that as a bonus, not a requirement. I've probably played the same games as you with hex maps and counters. Then with unpainted figures as they came available.....

Its always been about the fun. anything else was a bonus.

I'm not putting a moral spin on this, it's just that I want to play with painted figures. Why should I feel obliged to play with unpainted figures?

Your not. Dont belive I said you should.

However as I said to the orignal poster, what you are obligated to do is not tell folks that dont share your POV on the hobby how they should approach the game, nor that their having wrong/bad fun, and if we dont agree with your POV to go buy an XOBX and get out.

**Chaoslord**

wyomingfox wrote:Well the idea of having a painted army is more for the owner's personal enjoyment not his opponent's.

+1

Regarding if I have issues with other people's unpainted armies, I generally don't mind, altough I encourage them to paint their armies (even if it just comes down to basecoating & dipping).

But in the end, if they don't, I'll get over it.

**Saldiven**

Here's a good reason why I don't paint much:

I freaking hate it. I just plain don't like painting. I used to, but that was before I discovered things like girls and competitive athletics. Now, I'd rather spend the time I used to spend on painting by doing things like going to the gym, playing volleyball, or going out dancing with girls.

Now, I am in no way denigrating those who enjoy painting. I'm just saying that I don't.

Consequently, while I myself have two (barely) painted armies, I have no problem playing against people who don't paint their armies. The visual experience, for me, is the absolute last thing I'm looking for in a game. A well painted army does not make the game more challenging, my opponent a better player, the scenario more interesting, or the other player a nicer guy.

**R3con**

Kilkrazy wrote:Most people who don't paint their figures are basically n00bs who will probably drop out of wargaming as fast as they bought into it.

Nearly anyone who is serious about tabletop games will come to paint their figures because that is the point of playing tabletop games.

Eh i consider myself serioius i've played since 2nd ed....but working 50+ hours a week and having kids my painting time for my new armies is just about nil...

I have to schedual games 2 weeks out to get to play.

I'm lucky if I find the time to paint 2-3 figures a month...much less a whole army.

**Saldiven**

R3con wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:Most people who don't paint their figures are basically n00bs who will probably drop out of wargaming as fast as they bought into it.

Nearly anyone who is serious about tabletop games will come to paint their figures because that is the point of playing tabletop games.

Eh i consider myself serioius i've played since 2nd ed....but working 50+ hours a week and having kids my painting time for my new armies is just about nil...

I have to schedual games 2 weeks out to get to play.

I'm lucky if I find the time to paint 2-3 figures a month...much less a whole army.

Um, KK, I've been playing 40K since about 1988-89. I can't remember which year Rogue Trader came out, but I still have the first print book on my bookshelf at home that I bought when I was in high school.

Painting is the reason YOU play table top games. It is not THE point of playing table top games. In the 30 years that I have been gaming, I feel it is safe to bet that I have played more table top games than you've ever heard of, and I stopped enjoying painting about the time I got my first girlfriend.

See, that kind of commentary is the obnoxious elitism that I hate from some people whenever these threads about army painting come up.

You don't want to play me because you (not you, specifically, KK) don't like the degree to which my army is painted? Well, that's just fine. Based on some of the comments that I have seen on this and other threads from the painting proponent crowd, I'd probably not enjoy the game anyway.

**jgemrich**

chromedog wrote:
Agamemnon2 wrote:I've no problem with people who don't paint their minis. What really irks me are collectors, though, who hoard 20+ year old blisters of models, never to open them and certainly never to play with any of their prized collectibles. Which is why relish the opportunity to buy some of their precious models, slap on some paint and line them up for war.

these people are like the ones who hoard fine wines away, never to drink them.
They not only deprive themselves of the joys of it, but also deprive others who would more than certainly derive more enjoyment from quaffing said plonk.

They may as well just buy them to melt them down.

Huh??? Melt down my Zoats, Fimir and Ambull? My Legiond of the Damned Chaos or Gob Lobber? I still have these as pieces of a collection. Some are in the blister. Someday they'll see some paint.

**Kilkrazy**

No, painting is not the reason I play tabletop figure games.

I actually don't like painting very much, and I'm not much good at it.

I like the results of painting. I like fighting battles which look nice. That's how I get some of my fun out of wargaming.

I have no objection to secondhand or pro-painted figures and I have both in my collection, as well as stuff I did myself. I'm also fine with pre-painted figures.

**porkuslime**

I used to stink at painting.. (eyes lousy, hand co-ordination not too good)..

Then 2 things happened..

my spouse saw the pile of unpainted miniatures I had.. and kinda blew a gasket when she realized that I was buying minis without taking the time to paint em.. and the family budget got an emergency overhaul to eliminate modeling money until painting happened.. lol

And.. I got moved to a Saturday work schedule and I realized that I could paint at work! No Kids! No honey-do lists! (and about 2 hours of work in a space of 8 hours of time).. so, I asked if I could paint on the job.. the manager sayeth OK.. so.. off I went..

6 months later I saw Malfreds 520 challenge and got busy.. and after 18 months of Saturday painting I am ALL caught up.. 4 painted armies, 1 in progress, and now looking for the next project. I think if I every completely finish and never need to paint another fig.. I will implode. I have a painting habit now.

Maybe that is what is needed for those who have bare models and WANT paint on them.. a concious decision to make the time to paint.. and stick with it.

**Howard A Treesong**

jgemrich wrote:Huh??? Melt down my Zoats, Fimir and Ambull? My Legiond of the Damned Chaos or Gob Lobber? I still have these as pieces of a collection. Some are in the blister. Someday they'll see some paint.

I've wanted an Ambull and space zoats for years, every since that age old WD article; "Ambulling around".

**Platuan4th**

Agamemnon2 wrote:What really irks me are collectors, though, who hoard 20+ year old blisters of models, never to open them and certainly never to play with any of their prized collectibles. W

I see this same problem in the toy collecting community and still have a problem with it. Why would you buy something and not enjoy it to the fullest?

As Toyfaire says, there's no point in collecting toys if you can't take them out of the package and play with them(and if that bothers you, buy 2 copies).

**Redbeard**

Saldiven wrote:
... I just plain don't like painting. I used to, but that was before I discovered things like girls... Now, I'd rather spend the time I used to spend on painting by doing things like ... going out dancing with girls.

Women are sin. You must resist your baser urges for the sake of your miniatures.

porkuslime wrote:...
my spouse saw the pile of unpainted miniatures I had.. and kinda blew a gasket when she realized that I was buying minis without taking the time to paint em.. and the family budget got an emergency overhaul to eliminate modeling money until painting happened.. lol

Except your wife, sir. She is a woman of good moral standards, and you should count yourself lucky to have her.

**combatmedic**

I dont paint because:

A: I dont have time
B: I dont really have the space for it
C: I suck at painting
D: I have more fun playing than painting
E: I just really dont care.

Id like to finish my DA army, or maybe even start my Ork army, or perhaps paint more than just my Empire tank, but again I direct you to A-E.

**Kilkrazy**

It's very important never to paint all your figures.

Medical Facte! Wargamers only die once they finish painting all their naked lead.

**Bookwrack**

What about styrene?