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They're the least-responsive company I've ever seen...reminds me of the famous Henry Ford quote when he was told that his customers wanted the option of different colors on the Model T:

"They can have any color they want, as long as it's black."

I applaud your efforts, and I will join in your boycott, but the truth is that GW will most likely just chalk up any dip in sales to the effects of the global recession.

Deadshane1 wrote:21500+ registered users on dakka

Only half of those users spend 100 dollars less over two months because of this thread. (thats a drop in the bucket for many of us really, many of us spend MUCH more than this PER MONTH)

Yeah, I'm sure 10.750 Dakka users are going to join this....

Kilkrazy wrote:

Nurgleboy77 wrote:

Fateweaver wrote:I remember the "don't buy gas on Tuesday boycott". Yeah, that had a huge impact on gas prices. I mean when that happened gas suddenly fell to 10 cents per gallon....errr wait. It didn't. It just ended up in people buying gas that day because they realized to wait another day would have meant sitting alongside the road somewhere.

Hmm.

I don't think I'll boycott GW. I'm too addicted to their miniatures and nobody in my group is interested in another system and I usually order through Neal so if I don't buy GW products than Neal loses my money, therefore Neal loses money.

Naw, I don't think I'll be in.

Right there with ya, FW.

This is pretty silly. Sounds to me liek GW is protecting itself by trying to stop other companies making models of their IP. As The Iak said, they're just asking them to stop infringing not "shutting them down".

I don't seek to persuade you either way. As a moderator I am not going to argue for or against a boycott.

However I would like to correct the misconception about what GW are doing which has made people angry.

GW have no legal right to stop Impact Miniatures making Special Player figures for Blood Bowl. GW do not own IP to protect in the Special Characters.
GW do not produce the figures for several of the Special Players already in the rules, and these are the ones that Impact are covering.
Rather than make figures themselves, GW has threatened to delete all Special Players from the 6th edition rules, which are ready to be released.

I am sure you will understand why this makes fans of the game angry.

I'd honestly suggest that fans of Blood Bowl be more angry with themselves for continuing to be a punching bag.

Dead game. Give it up.

Pro-tip: If it's not 40K, WFB or LotR, GW won't be supporting it in 6 months. And Blood Bowls 6 Months were up over 10 years ago.

Yeah, good luck with that. I don't think a few forumgoers can make a big dent in sales. Except maybe HBMC... but then Maelstrom would go bankrupt too.
I haven't bought anything from GW since the Stompa, so whatever.

warpcrafter wrote:I'm in. I just ordered 80 Warzone troops from Prince August. You can't beat getting your bulk troops for $0.50 each. They also need to be told that they're being boycotted. I'm gonna send a letter to them and tell them what this is being done. I want a better Chaos Codex!!!

Uh... can you let me know if you find a glue that bonds these ?

If you look at the GW finanical report they had a 5% increase from profits on discontinued product. Returning stuff to the FLGS will not do anything. Also, returning it to GW themselves will do nothing since that is considered a tax write off as a cost of doing business.

TBD wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:21500+ registered users on dakka

Only half of those users spend 100 dollars less over two months because of this thread. (thats a drop in the bucket for many of us really, many of us spend MUCH more than this PER MONTH)

Yeah, I'm sure 10.750 Dakka users are going to join this....

Presuming they did...

Per the spending poll, the typical Dakka user spends a grand total of $600 on wargaming per year. That's about $50 per month. If you factor GW as the bulk of the spend, count them as $40 GW spend per month. So the $100 for two months isn't a bad estimate, considering higher holiday spend, but it's probably on the high side overall

The 50% uptake, for 10,000 users is well off. It discounts inactive users and lurker types. Try a 5% update, for 1000 users and it's probably more realistic. So the potential "boycott" (delay, really) is $100,000 USD. I'm not sure this would be noticable during the holiday sales period.


Of course, the median Dakka user spends $100 to $500 total per year, so it's more like $250 to $300, instead of $600. That means we're talking $20 to $25 per month, and perhaps $50 for the holiday season, for a grand total of perhaps $50k. Drop in the bucket, folks.

I don't really consider Dakka as the community, though it is a large one. I mean, TMP averages over 5000 hits per hour, with 23,000 registered users.

And again, organization would certainly be the key. Obviously a company of this size could disregard various isolated attempts at achieving change. But consider the possibility if they are faced with just 3000 or so people that are disgruntled. Numbers of that kind cannot just be written off, and to do so would be the height of arrogance and foolishness.

3,000 users x $50? Oohhh... $150k. I think GW could care less.

tbh, this isnt ever gunna happen. not to that extent anyway, remember, new kids are finding warhammer and getting their parents to spend serious amounts on it anyway..

I should boycott McDonalds, you know because it isn't fair that I can't bring my Burger King into their store.

How dare they protect their business model?

Ow, crap. I just knee-jerked so hard I tore an ACL.

If 25 people who were otherwise going to spend join this and actually stick to it that would probably be a lot.

Now what would be a cool idea: those people who really care so much about this could travel to Nottinghamshire and go on a hungerstrike in front of GW headquarters, yelling slogans every morning when Jervis and the lads arrive for work?

Put it on Youtube to give it some exposure.

Fateweaver wrote:I should boycott McDonalds, you know because it isn't fair that I can't bring my Burger King into their store.

How dare they protect their business model?

Ow, crap. I just knee-jerked so hard I tore an ACL.

I had plans for my new SW as well as IG and blood bowl as well of all things.

I'm in Shane.

@ the Mods

Can we put all the C&D under one title? This is like the 5th C&D post.

Cheers

The money really isn't an issue, though $150k for them is roughly .15% of last years revenue, which is nothing to laugh at.

In point of fact, my initial post states the futility of boycotting them for two months, as they would then experience an up-swing in sales at the end, compensating for any prior losses.

That said, if you object to their business practices in any way, shape, or form, why would you not try and change them? Why continue to be overcharged and marginalized by a company that exists at your sufferance? No retailer in their right mind would out-and-out ignore a large block of their consistent customers. Not only would you lose revenue from their future purchases, but you create a force that will try to dissuade others from purchasing.

Arklite wrote:And again, organization would certainly be the key. Obviously a company of this size could disregard various isolated attempts at achieving change. But consider the possibility if they are faced with just 3000 or so people that are disgruntled. Numbers of that kind cannot just be written off, and to do so would be the height of arrogance and foolishness.

3000 people, to a company the size of GW, are a drop in a bucket. Particularly since, if they're established enough gamers to be upset about GW cracking down on IP infringement on Blood Bowl sites, chances are they're not GW's target market in the first place.

GW are well aware that large numbers of veterans are unhappy with the way they do business. They're well aware that large numbers of veterans sooner or later have enough and leave.

They don't care. Because veterans aren't where they consider the bulk of the money to come from. Sure, some veterans spend regularly and in reasonable amounts. But the majority don't.

GW are far more interested in the new guy who wanders in and lays down a wad of cash on a starter set and an army, who spends up big for the first 6 months or so and then wanders off, quite possibly never to return because he loses interest. To be replaced by the next new guy.

That's their target market, and that (at least according to whatever they pass off as market research) is where the bulk of their sales come from.

And that target market isn't going to be the least bit affected by an internet-organised boycott.

Fateweaver wrote:Ow, crap. I just knee-jerked so hard I tore an ACL.

Ha!

Thanks, I needed a laugh in this.

I'm planning on tripling my purchases over the next two months, but whatever...

I do want to post in support of Mean Green Stompa's idea. Buy from their competitors. Take the next two months to learn and promote a new game. Maybe you'll find a game you like better, maybe not, but stronger competition vs. GW will have better long-term consequences than simply a limited boycott. AT-43 and WarMachine are two games that have forced GW to work just a little harder, so increasing their sales will have a stronger measurable impact than a 1% dip in GW sales that can be blamed on the economy.

Losing sales will not have an impact on GW. Losing market share to their competitors? That's when publicly-traded companies fire their CEOs and review their practices from the top down.

I should boycott McDonalds, you know because it isn't fair that I can't bring my Burger King into their store.

How dare they protect their business model?

Ow, crap. I just knee-jerked so hard I tore an ACL.

And I'm boycotting Burger King for the same reason!

I've played Blood Bowl for about 10 years and I've never heard/visited of any of these sites getting C+D's and I get by just fine, so I can't really sympathize with the issue. My local GW store always has someone down to play Specialist Games or my club is running a tourney/campaign at said GW store. BFG/Mordheim/BB are all actually fairly popular in my area. Saying GW doesn't support Specialists games is way off the mark, you'd know that if you are lucky enough to have a GW store or better yet a Battle Bunker, in your area.

I suspect most people posting are just jumping on the GW bash train simply because its the flavor of the month complaint and there is no forthcoming Codex/Army Book to lament over. Upcoming rumors of overpowered/underpowered Tyranid/Beastmen books will squash this little ragefest.

I just took the call for a Boycott over to the BOLS Lounge. Gonna check back later to see if there's any reaction. It won't generate much effect, I'm sure, since that forum never really took off.

How many boycotts have there been this year? Only remember the Space Hulk one.

Good luck to ya'll, GW's got me addicted to their plastic and pewter crack. Unfortunately for the OP and Co. this will likely only further cement GW HQ's negative view on the forum community.

ignoring the detractors and those that KNOW they can't stop their addiction, i'm with ya on this one.

I was fence stitting until this: http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2009/11/17/31483


If they're going to tell me that I HAVE to buy their minis or else?

Christ, I get better terms on loans from my Godfather.

Sorry. I didn't feel like reading 5 pages about a pointless thread, so I'm just going to reply to the OP. That's where all the nonsense started anyway.

Deadshane1 wrote:GW just sent another C&D to Fumbbl.com.

I fail to see where this is a problem. See next reply.

Deadshane1 wrote:MANY people are upset somehow by GW's heavy hand. We should all understand that they have to protect their IP, but in this case fumbbl has been around for some 10+ years.

Heavy hand? Seriously? GW created a brilliant game and they want to protect their IP, so let's boycott their "heavy-handed" ways.

You yourself said that, while you play the board game, you play at fumbbl.com, too. Why should GW allow this java-based BB client to exist when it is causing them to lose money? This is the most stupid arguement ever. GW just released a BB game for the PC through Cyanide. It's called "Blood Bowl" in case you haven't heard of it. Did you purchase a copy of the new BB game?

No?

I thought not. Why should you purchase it when you can play it for free at fumbbl.com, right? Who cares if it has gak graphics. The game still plays like the board game, but it's FREE! The fact that it has been around for 10+ years doesn't mean gak. Until about a year ago, fumbbl.com wasn't conflicting with anything GW had going on. In fact, fumbbl.com and GW were a symbiotic relationship, both feeding one anothers' existence. Now that GW has a BB game out, fumbbl.com is eating into their possible profit margins. As such, they are now a problem that GW has EVERY RIGHT to ask to shut down.

Look at it this way, you (fumbble.com) and your best friend (GW) have been bros for 10-12 years. You went to school together, drank massive amounts of beer, partied your asses off. Now, he suddenly starts seriously dating some chick (Cyanide) and they move in together and have a kid on the way (new BB pc game). That dynamic between you and the dude has changed forever. The dude (assuming he's a real man) will cut you out completely to focus his attentions on the newly created child that he is forever blood-bonded to.

Deadshane1 wrote:They specifically state that you MUST own the game to play there.

lol... This OBVIOUSLY qualifies them as exempt to the GW IP copyrights.
A) I'm sure that everyone who plays at fumbbl.com has a copy of the board game.
B) I'm sure that fumbbl.com verifies that every single registered player has a copy of the board game before allowing them to d/l the program and play.

The fact that you even uttered this comment as a qualifier for why GW is wrong for shutting down fumbbl.com is ludicrous.
It's like trying to sell your WoW account on ebay. While the account is in your name (financially responsible) all content, items, money, characters, etc. are still property of Blizzard Entertainment. To get around this, people on ebay tried to say, "All content is property of Blizzard. You are paying me for the TIME I spent getting the characters where they are."

People do this while selling antiques and stuff all the time, too. You take an old furniture item to an antique shop and tell them some long story about how your wife's mother's mother's mother had it made when they finshed their long trek from Delaware to Oregon during the manifest destiny land-grab in the 1800's.
The dealer doesn't give a rat's ass if your great-great uncle Chuck built the damned item himself. It isn't worth any more money if the dealer finds out that great-great uncle Chuck gnawed the trees down to make this furniture with his own teeth.
It's worth money depending on how old it is, what condition it's in and, most importantly, if the dealer feels he can resell it at a profit. That's it.


Stating that players MUST own the game before playing there (I just can't help laughing at the idiocy of this statement... lmao) doesn't mean dick.



Go buy Cyanide's Blood Bowl for PC and let fumbbl.com go the way of the dinosaurs. It sucks, it's ugly, and it's outdated. Quit being a cheapass and spend $50 on a VASTLY superior pc Blood Bowl.


Now then, if you want to start another mindless mob and picket GW for their nonsensical and unreasonable price hikes, count me in.





Ghidorah

Most of the people claiming this is irrelevant and no one will gain anything from it... dont seem to understand something subtle but that makes ALL the diference...

-Competiton will gain these "few" pennies and as such will have more money power to invest in better things for us...because there all our pennies makes the diference
- I will personally gain from this since I will dig further into other games/projects/companies... and who knows how many of us will find something so much better that we will never look back again?

What I'm saying is that a boicott is not only measured by what GW accountans see on the balance sheet. Theres much more to this.

Ghidorah wrote:
Go buy Cyanide's Blood Bowl for PC and let fumbbl.com go the way of the dinosaurs. It sucks, it's ugly, and it's outdated. Quit being a cheapass and spend $50 on a VASTLY superior pc Blood Bowl.
Now then, if you want to start another mindless mob and picket GW for their nonsensical and unreasonable price hikes, count me in.

I second the unreasonable price hike bit, but Ghiddy, baby, have you PLAYED Cyanide's Bug Bowl??? Ugly, outdated, yes, but I can't say I've ever seen it CTD.

Ghidorah wrote:Sorry. I didn't feel like reading 5 pages about a pointless thread, so I'm just going to reply to the OP. That's where all the nonsense started anyway.

Deadshane1 wrote:GW just sent another C&D to Fumbbl.com.

I fail to see where this is a problem. See next reply.

Deadshane1 wrote:MANY people are upset somehow by GW's heavy hand. We should all understand that they have to protect their IP, but in this case fumbbl has been around for some 10+ years.

Heavy hand? Seriously? GW created a brilliant game and they want to protect their IP, so let's boycott their "heavy-handed" ways.

You yourself said that, while you play the board game, you play at fumbbl.com, too. Why should GW allow this java-based BB client to exist when it is causing them to lose money? This is the most stupid arguement ever. GW just released a BB game for the PC through Cyanide. It's called "Blood Bowl" in case you haven't heard of it. Did you purchase a copy of the new BB game?

No?

I thought not. Why should you purchase it when you can play it for free at fumbbl.com, right? Who cares if it has gak graphics. The game still plays like the board game, but it's FREE! The fact that it has been around for 10+ years doesn't mean gak. Until about a year ago, fumbbl.com wasn't conflicting with anything GW had going on. In fact, fumbbl.com and GW were a symbiotic relationship, both feeding one anothers' existence. Now that GW has a BB game out, fumbbl.com is eating into their possible profit margins. As such, they are now a problem that GW has EVERY RIGHT to ask to shut down.

Look at it this way, you (fumbble.com) and your best friend (GW) have been bros for 10-12 years. You went to school together, drank massive amounts of beer, partied your asses off. Now, he suddenly starts seriously dating some chick (Cyanide) and they move in together and have a kid on the way (new BB pc game). That dynamic between you and the dude has changed forever. The dude (assuming he's a real man) will cut you out completely to focus his attentions on the newly created child that he is forever blood-bonded to.

Deadshane1 wrote:They specifically state that you MUST own the game to play there.

lol... This OBVIOUSLY qualifies them as exempt to the GW IP copyrights.
A) I'm sure that everyone who plays at fumbbl.com has a copy of the board game.
B) I'm sure that fumbbl.com verifies that every single registered player has a copy of the board game before allowing them to d/l the program and play.

The fact that you even uttered this comment as a qualifier for why GW is wrong for shutting down fumbbl.com is ludicrous.
It's like trying to sell your WoW account on ebay. While the account is in your name (financially responsible) all content, items, money, characters, etc. are still property of Blizzard Entertainment. To get around this, people on ebay tried to say, "All content is property of Blizzard. You are paying me for the TIME I spent getting the characters where they are."

People do this while selling antiques and stuff all the time, too. You take an old furniture item to an antique shop and tell them some long story about how your wife's mother's mother's mother had it made when they finshed their long trek from Delaware to Oregon during the manifest destiny land-grab in the 1800's.
The dealer doesn't give a rat's ass if your great-great uncle Chuck built the damned item himself. It isn't worth any more money if the dealer finds out that great-great uncle Chuck gnawed the trees down to make this furniture with his own teeth.
It's worth money depending on how old it is, what condition it's in and, most importantly, if the dealer feels he can resell it at a profit. That's it.


Stating that players MUST own the game before playing there (I just can't help laughing at the idiocy of this statement... lmao) doesn't mean dick.



Go buy Cyanide's Blood Bowl for PC and let fumbbl.com go the way of the dinosaurs. It sucks, it's ugly, and it's outdated. Quit being a cheapass and spend $50 on a VASTLY superior pc Blood Bowl.


Now then, if you want to start another mindless mob and picket GW for their nonsensical and unreasonable price hikes, count me in.





Ghidorah

I agree with this. Most of you have no idea what it takes to run a company, yet you feel you can be Monday morning quarterbacks. How many of you have degrees in business or have actually ran one that does as much business as GW? Honestly if you just complain and offer little no solution other than "WHINE WHINE WHINE make stuff cheaper WHINE WHINE WHINE" do you think anyone will take you seriously? I for one think GW has gotten much better as a company, their models are only becoming more amazing and more involved. The rules for their games are getting better too. I can't wait to spend money on my new Skaven army.

Oh and one more thing. This is a hobby. If you don't like the prices or don't like the company then quit. No one is forcing you to play this HOBBY (read not essential). If you want to be all gung ho about the cost of something, try the price of food or gas. Care about something that actually makes a difference.

This thread makes me laugh so much.

I know...enough people in the world shoud boycott Coca-cola to make them suffer a 1% loss for 2 months and maybe prices of Coca cola and Dr. Pepper will go down.

Yeah, stick it to the Coca-Cola overlords!!!

BaronIveagh wrote:...but Ghiddy, baby, have you PLAYED Cyanide's Bug Bowl???

Yessir. I own it and I am currently playing four campaigns simultaneously. Dwarfs, Lizzys, Chaos, and Wood Elves. I have an online campaign set up and ready to go, but haven't found enough people playing the pc version to join up yet. I want it to be made up of people we know as much as possible.

It has a few bugs, yes, but nothing that degrades the game. Some graphical glitches here and there, but ALLLLLL software is buggy on release. Heck, even GW's (and most other company's) tabletop rules are "buggy" upon release. That's why we have erratas and faqs. They are the equivalent of patches in pc games.

Other than the minor Cyanide BB bugs (which they do patch and fix), it is a fantastic game. The graphics are beautiful, most of the sound effects are exactly what I imagine them to be, and it's a FAITHFUL reproduction of the BB LRB.


As an aside, you said, "Ghiddy, baby" to me... Not sure how that makes me feel...



Ghidorah

Fateweaver wrote:This thread makes me laugh so much.

I know...enough people in the world shoud boycott Coca-cola to make them suffer a 1% loss for 2 months and maybe prices of Coca cola and Dr. Pepper will go down.

Yeah, stick it to the Coca-Cola overlords!!!

Here is an idea, don't like the thread? Don't post in it. Nobody is putting a gun to your head and makeing you read it.

Also after a quick search it looks like BOLS already took the topic down.