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Maybe it's my philosophy background, but I'm used to being able to tell someone "Your ideas sucks, and here's why", have them reply in kind, and then go get a beer and continue the discussion once the conference particulars are done for the day. I'm used to casual rudeness so long as it's concerned with building better ideas. Being rude because someone thinks it's funny or because you want to take someone down a peg, to insult someone, that's obviously not okay.

okay

your thought sucks

trouble is, I am not used to casual rudeness.
Not everybody has a philosophy degree in their back pocket.

We all bring personal baggage to the forum which requires some form of mediation.
ie rules of etiquette.
Calling someones idea stoopid will be seen by many as insulting. It winds people up.
on the other hand, I disagree with your idea beacause... is more concillatory and opens up dialogue.

The problem with the situation you describe above is that Dakka is not a closed group of philosophers at a symposium.
The forum is open and when you attack someone's ideas, even if that person responds calmly and there is no bloodshed, a third party may feel agrieved because it also attacks his ideas. So it escalates as more and more parties pour into defend or counyer attack.

It sets a tone of aggression which can easily feed the flames, so a mild disagreement becomes a conflagration.
Set a more amicable tone and it tends to keep things calm.

fullheadofhair wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
Thats just stupid, asininely stupid, like the kind federal government level bailout stupid.

Employs Frazzled rule:
If you said thse statements to me in person would I buy you a drink or call you out? Thinks for a sec. Yea I might call you out on it.
Remember everything's local, what might be an insult in yuour locale might put you in the morgue in another.

I was taught be polite, because the bastard you just insulted may be armed and not from this country.

Anyone else see it or is it just me?

Awesome - and all in one thread.

See....this sort of logic, but throw religion into the mix.

Instant lock....well, after certain people [MOD] have their say.

Seen it.

Free forum to say what you want indeed.....

I dont think dakka is going down hill as much as my tastes in websites and information has changed as I got older. I'll check in for rumors but try an avoid arguements and drama that seem to be abound in places I might not have 5-10 years ago.

Frazzled wrote:

Wait, you've never dealt with me as a mod or in the OT. How the hell else have you dealt with me then?
Come on, you know want to say it. I'm the Worst Mod Evah! In fact I should be reported. The irony of reporting a mod when you yourself are espousing a more laissez faire view of modding would be paritcularly sweet. Do it. You know you want to. Frazzled outcast un clean! Do it...

Never said I wanted less moderation. Care to show me where I posted that? I would actually prefer a bit more, even if I end up get an extra few warnings. However, I do want less moderation from you specifically as you are definitely the "the Worst MOD Evah". Why - because you have caused many threads to spiral down hill yourself with your downright rudeness, and not just in the OT. How many times have you supposedly suspended yourself now - 4? I remember seeing 3 in your sig but then there was a thread that crashed dramatically following a dose of Frazzled quality posting that may have resulted in another. As a MOD that is pathetic and a prime example of why you shouldn't be one. Tone comes from the top as they say.

kirsanth wrote:Even posts with more spite than tact, like JohnHwangDD's recent forays into responding to my posts have been, this is not an issue. Say what you mean, mean what you say. Even if that means saying something like, "That is the stupidest fecking comment I've ever seen on Dakka. Only a total feckwit slow descended from inbred fecktards would have written something like that", I approve of posting it if you think it's true.

Actually, I don't think that it's true at all, aside from posting it to make a point about how "stupid idea" = "stupid person". It's really more of an example of the basic chain connecting the two points you started with.

If you think I've actually been deliberately, personally spiteful, that actually wasn't the intent, and I apologize for that.

Deadshane1 wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
Thats just stupid, asininely stupid, like the kind federal government level bailout stupid.

Employs Frazzled rule:
If you said thse statements to me in person would I buy you a drink or call you out? Thinks for a sec. Yea I might call you out on it.
Remember everything's local, what might be an insult in yuour locale might put you in the morgue in another.

I was taught be polite, because the bastard you just insulted may be armed and not from this country.

Anyone else see it or is it just me?

Awesome - and all in one thread.

See....this sort of logic, but throw religion into the mix.

Instant lock....well, after certain people [MOD] have their say.

Seen it.

Free forum to say what you want indeed.....

Wait I don't see anyone locking this. I thought you were for human emotion Deady. Where's the Beef?

JohnHwangDD wrote:If you think I've actually been deliberately, personally spiteful, that actually wasn't the intent, and I apologize for that.

See? Need more of this apologizing and getting back on course to attempting to discover if DakkaDakka is really going down hill.

fullheadofhair wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Wait, you've never dealt with me as a mod or in the OT. How the hell else have you dealt with me then?
Come on, you know want to say it. I'm the Worst Mod Evah! In fact I should be reported. The irony of reporting a mod when you yourself are espousing a more laissez faire view of modding would be paritcularly sweet. Do it. You know you want to. Frazzled outcast un clean! Do it...

Never said I wanted less moderation. Care to show me where I posted that? I would actually prefer a bit more, even if I end up get an extra few warnings. However, I do want less moderation from you specifically as you are definitely the "the Worst MOD Evah". Why - because you have caused many threads to spiral down hill yourself with your downright rudeness, and not just in the OT. How many times have you supposedly suspended yourself now - 4? I remember seeing 3 in your sig but then there was a thread that crashed dramatically following a dose of Frazzled quality posting that may have resulted in another. As a MOD that is pathetic and a prime example of why you shouldn't be one. Tone comes from the top as they say.

You forgot the exclamation point. Thats just stupid. Now I am not saying you're stupid, just that idea that someone would post that without the exclamation point is just mindrippingly dumb. Good thing this thread is not being Modded and politeness enforced or else I'd have a whole slew of fektards reporting me.

Kilkrazy:

There's nothing wrong with being polite. Nonetheless, there's nothing wrong with being unintentionally rude either. After all, if I'm being perfectly polite by the standards of my culture, why should I be censured if I'm not being polite by the standards of your culture? I suppose I could put the effort into catering to your sensibilities, but that would beg the question about why you aren't doing the same for me.

Nurglitch wrote:Kilkrazy:

There's nothing wrong with being polite. Nonetheless, there's nothing wrong with being unintentionally rude either. After all, if I'm being perfectly polite by the standards of my culture, why should I be censured if I'm not being polite by the standards of your culture? I suppose I could put the effort into catering to your sensibilities, but that would beg the question about why you aren't doing the same for me.

Well you can go two ways there Nurgly. You can go for bare miinimum, lowest common denominator, or you can go for a more high class joint. High class tends to get higher margins wouldn't you say?

Frazzled wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Wait, you've never dealt with me as a mod or in the OT. How the hell else have you dealt with me then?
Come on, you know want to say it. I'm the Worst Mod Evah! In fact I should be reported. The irony of reporting a mod when you yourself are espousing a more laissez faire view of modding would be paritcularly sweet. Do it. You know you want to. Frazzled outcast un clean! Do it...

Never said I wanted less moderation. Care to show me where I posted that? I would actually prefer a bit more, even if I end up get an extra few warnings. However, I do want less moderation from you specifically as you are definitely the "the Worst MOD Evah". Why - because you have caused many threads to spiral down hill yourself with your downright rudeness, and not just in the OT. How many times have you supposedly suspended yourself now - 4? I remember seeing 3 in your sig but then there was a thread that crashed dramatically following a dose of Frazzled quality posting that may have resulted in another. As a MOD that is pathetic and a prime example of why you shouldn't be one. Tone comes from the top as they say.

You forgot the exclamation point. Thats just stupid. Now I am not saying you're stupid, just that idea that someone would post that without the exclamation point is just mindrippingly dumb. Good thing this thread is not being Modded and politeness enforced or else I'd have a whole slew of fektards reporting me.

Frazzled, you are not helping the downhill DakkaDakka debate by the fact a Moderator is getting into an arguing match (whether you are treating this seriously or not) with another person in a thread dedicated to figuring out why DakkaDakka is going down hill.

WarOne wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Wait, you've never dealt with me as a mod or in the OT. How the hell else have you dealt with me then?
Come on, you know want to say it. I'm the Worst Mod Evah! In fact I should be reported. The irony of reporting a mod when you yourself are espousing a more laissez faire view of modding would be paritcularly sweet. Do it. You know you want to. Frazzled outcast un clean! Do it...

Never said I wanted less moderation. Care to show me where I posted that? I would actually prefer a bit more, even if I end up get an extra few warnings. However, I do want less moderation from you specifically as you are definitely the "the Worst MOD Evah". Why - because you have caused many threads to spiral down hill yourself with your downright rudeness, and not just in the OT. How many times have you supposedly suspended yourself now - 4? I remember seeing 3 in your sig but then there was a thread that crashed dramatically following a dose of Frazzled quality posting that may have resulted in another. As a MOD that is pathetic and a prime example of why you shouldn't be one. Tone comes from the top as they say.

You forgot the exclamation point. Thats just stupid. Now I am not saying you're stupid, just that idea that someone would post that without the exclamation point is just mindrippingly dumb. Good thing this thread is not being Modded and politeness enforced or else I'd have a whole slew of fektards reporting me.

Frazzled, you are not helping the downhill DakkaDakka debate by the fact a Moderator is getting into an arguing match (whether you are treating this seriously or not) with another person in a thread dedicated to figuring out why DakkaDakka is going down hill.

Just making a point WO old boy. It can go down hill pretty fast. But there should be no issue, I'm just telling it like it is. That seems to be what is being asked for.

Anybody else got a fekking problem with that, or are you to espousing stupid views?
(the above not directed at anyone espousing the above lassiez faire freedom to say what they want sort of thing, it really is liberating).

Why do people whine? I don't read half the topics here becasue they don't interest me. The ones that do interest me, I participate in. What's the problem again? The only 'problem' I see is condescending 'elder' members being rude to kids or foreigners about grammar or spellung mistakes that they know full well they can understand but just want to be snitty about it, or getting off topic flaming people for not knowing all the rules or whatever. If we all knew all the rules we wouldn't have to ask these questions with hopes for clarification or advice. Complaining that 'dakka isn't what it was' makes about as much sense as me complaining that 40k was so much better when it was Rogue Trader, back when we didn't have to play with kids. The older we get, the older the definition of 'kid' becomes too. To me it is anyone who has never used overwatch rules, or never had a figure made out of lead, but it isn't necessary to belittle people for being 'new'.

Frazzled wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Wait, you've never dealt with me as a mod or in the OT. How the hell else have you dealt with me then?
Come on, you know want to say it. I'm the Worst Mod Evah! In fact I should be reported. The irony of reporting a mod when you yourself are espousing a more laissez faire view of modding would be paritcularly sweet. Do it. You know you want to. Frazzled outcast un clean! Do it...

Never said I wanted less moderation. Care to show me where I posted that? I would actually prefer a bit more, even if I end up get an extra few warnings. However, I do want less moderation from you specifically as you are definitely the "the Worst MOD Evah". Why - because you have caused many threads to spiral down hill yourself with your downright rudeness, and not just in the OT. How many times have you supposedly suspended yourself now - 4? I remember seeing 3 in your sig but then there was a thread that crashed dramatically following a dose of Frazzled quality posting that may have resulted in another. As a MOD that is pathetic and a prime example of why you shouldn't be one. Tone comes from the top as they say.

You forgot the exclamation point. Thats just stupid. Now I am not saying you're stupid, just that idea that someone would post that without the exclamation point is just mindrippingly dumb. Good thing this thread is not being Modded and politeness enforced or else I'd have a whole slew of fektards reporting me.

Speaking of politeness - so is it 3 or 4 times then - curious as it has been taken off your sig line.

Reecius wrote:Those are some good suggestions, dude. I think loosening up on the moderation will help a lot. We need a little drama to engage people! If it's all smiles and politeness it's boring as hell.

If drama and confrontation are what we're missing, we just need to get Stelek and Mauleed back posting regularly....

fullheadofhair wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

fullheadofhair wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Wait, you've never dealt with me as a mod or in the OT. How the hell else have you dealt with me then?
Come on, you know want to say it. I'm the Worst Mod Evah! In fact I should be reported. The irony of reporting a mod when you yourself are espousing a more laissez faire view of modding would be paritcularly sweet. Do it. You know you want to. Frazzled outcast un clean! Do it...

Never said I wanted less moderation. Care to show me where I posted that? I would actually prefer a bit more, even if I end up get an extra few warnings. However, I do want less moderation from you specifically as you are definitely the "the Worst MOD Evah". Why - because you have caused many threads to spiral down hill yourself with your downright rudeness, and not just in the OT. How many times have you supposedly suspended yourself now - 4? I remember seeing 3 in your sig but then there was a thread that crashed dramatically following a dose of Frazzled quality posting that may have resulted in another. As a MOD that is pathetic and a prime example of why you shouldn't be one. Tone comes from the top as they say.

You forgot the exclamation point. Thats just stupid. Now I am not saying you're stupid, just that idea that someone would post that without the exclamation point is just mindrippingly dumb. Good thing this thread is not being Modded and politeness enforced or else I'd have a whole slew of fektards reporting me.

Speaking of politeness - so is it 3 or 4 times then - curious as it has been taken off your sig line.

3 actually, taken off for lack of space. I like the lawsuit one better

Keep talking your stupid ideas people. Its started up conversations behind the scenes on some of them. Any more lameass stupid ideas?

To restate:
-Need a 40K Discussions: watercooler, or modify Background to Background and Watercooler discussions. Move more mundane posts to this directory.

-Better title management or deal with titles when appropriate.

-Mayhaps some sort of like/dislike button (help me on the purpose again)

-Better search function.

-A Tactics Mod or guru (be careful what you wish for on that one.)

-Take Frazzled out, but watch out as he takes half of Dakka with him!

-Public notification that a post has already been reported or looked at.

What else?

Guitardian wrote:Why do people whine? I don't read half the topics here becasue they don't interest me. The ones that do interest me, I participate in. What's the problem again? The only 'problem' I see is condescending 'elder' members being rude to kids or foreigners about grammar or spellung mistakes that they know full well they can understand but just want to be snitty about it, or getting off topic flaming people for not knowing all the rules or whatever. If we all knew all the rules we wouldn't have to ask these questions with hopes for clarification or advice. Complaining that 'dakka isn't what it was' makes about as much sense as me complaining that 40k was so much better when it was Rogue Trader, back when we didn't have to play with kids. The older we get, the older the definition of 'kid' becomes too. To me it is anyone who has never used overwatch rules, or never had a figure made out of lead, but it isn't necessary to belittle people for being 'new'.

See, now if there was a "like" button I'd press it right here.

neil101 wrote:only being in dakka a few days , but i find it both relaxed mature , reasonable , educational friendly and inspiring , which are qualities you will rarely find on any forum let alone one to do with competetive battles

To be fair, Neil, you came to Dakka with a lot of quality content. It's hard not to be reasonable and friendly to a contributor!

Frazzled wrote:-Mayhaps some sort of like/dislike button (help me on the purpose again)

-A Tactics Mod or guru (be careful what you wish for on that one.)

The Like/Dislike button is to encourage popularity contests, but without auto-hide, it's not really useful. I still think it becomes a game.

I nominate DoP and Gwar! as joint Tactics Mods. Tactics are only valid if *both* agree.

WarOne wrote:

Frazzled, you are not helping the downhill DakkaDakka debate by the fact a Moderator is getting into an arguing match (whether you are treating this seriously or not) with another person in a thread dedicated to figuring out why DakkaDakka is going down hill.

Is it going down hill ?

Thought that was to be decided

Just stole one of LB's posts from the other thread as i feel it helps towards the like/dislike idea.

Actually it is not really a problem. First off, there would not be a dislike button, only like. The score could be weighted based on a number of things like user's rank (mod/admin/dcm), user's friend to ignore ratio, number of posts, time since registered on dakka, total number of moderator actions taken against the user, etc. It would be quite easy to filter out the pettiness and give massive boosts to the opinions of our best members. The only thing holding it back is my spare development time.

JohnHwangDD:

Why in Noden's name would you nominate Gwar for any kind of moderator position?

So for the first time, the amount of people I have ignored will matter?

Excellent.

Also, I totally unashamedly put myself forward as "40k Background Dictator".

I'll rule with an iron fist, and get rid of all the trash clogging up 40k Background that should be in 40k Discussion or Off-Topic.

@John: You have my other nominations: Thor665 and Ailaros. I bet you can't find one Dakka user who has a grudge against either of them. Convincing them that this would be worth their time is another matter. DoP has already volunteered (I thought) so why not see if that enthusiasm can be put to work? Frankly, Gwar! has done a lot on Dakka and his enthusiasm could also be put to work.

-----

What purpose would a thread-already-reported button serve?

What purpose would a reputation system serve?

These seem like not-so-good ideas to me.

I really don't think adding more moderators is the answer.

Particularly... well... what's a good word... divisive figures. That would only lead to serious problems. Go to Alexa and look at where some of the more strictly moderated 40k Fansites are listed compared to Dakka.

Chibi Bodge-Battle:

There's a very practical reason why philosophers (and anyone else discussing ideas) adopt the attitude of having a thicker skin: because it's the only way to have a constructive discussion between people that disagree on fundamentals. There's no point in going down to the level of the ordinary schmuck, because then it's just a bunch of people spouting ideas and nodding/wagging heads. You either bring yourself up to the level of having a constructive discussion, or you don't have one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Manchu:

I wouldn't call it a grudge, but I don't think Ailaros is competent to perform any kind of moderation task, his lack of tactical acumen notwithstanding. Similarly Gwar is the worst kind of self-aggrandizing troll on Dakka: having the opinion that GW can get its own rules wrong should pretty much disqualify anyone from having a valid opinion on rules, and indeed the game.

Kanluwen wrote:So for the first time, the amount of people I have ignored will matter?

Excellent.

Also, I totally unashamedly put myself forward as "40k Background Dictator".

I'll rule with an iron fist, and get rid of all the trash clogging up 40k Background that should be in 40k Discussion or Off-Topic.

Mashing the Alert button is a good start towards that end And you get non of the backlash

What's that saying about those who want power being uniquely unqualified to exercise it?

grey_death wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:So for the first time, the amount of people I have ignored will matter?

Excellent.

Also, I totally unashamedly put myself forward as "40k Background Dictator".

I'll rule with an iron fist, and get rid of all the trash clogging up 40k Background that should be in 40k Discussion or Off-Topic.

Mashing the Alert button is a good start towards that end And you get non of the backlash

Oh I most certainly do mash the Alert button.

Funny I've not seen formal debates where insulting or insulting the points of the other debater were permitted. But what do I know.