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xXSir MontyXx wrote:Ya maybe if the necrons decided to cuddle with the Tau after they had their way with them

That piece fluff reminds me of Mars Attacks film.

I think I may have seen that, cant remember. How are they alike?

xXSir MontyXx wrote:I think I may have seen that, cant remember. How are they alike?

That movie is essentially parody of the Independece day(not officially).
Aliens look like classical Marsians with advanced tech who want to conquer the Earth and their weakness are loud sounds,the film is from 1996 and it's funny.

That movie is essentially parody of the Independece day(not officially).
Aliens look like classical Marsians with advanced tech who want to conquer the Earth and their weakness are loud sounds,the film is from 1996 and it's funny.

OH YEAH i remember that movie! I knew I had seen it! Really though the question is.... did the Necrons cuddle after forced intercourse with the Tau? I dont think they did, they are cold unfeeling machines. But the Tau seem to LOVE technology, maybe it wasnt forced! So many plot holes in the Tau fluff

That movie would be even more awesome if SMs start suddenly launching drop pods and boarding actions against the aliens,way too awesome.

Hopefully next time they will invite the Swarmlord to their homeworld for peace talks, ofcourse the Swarmlord will have its best 4 billion bodyguard to make sure it doesnt come to any harm

IvanTih wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:Ya maybe if the necrons decided to cuddle with the Tau after they had their way with them

That piece fluff reminds me of Mars Attacks film.

Back back back, back back!

Back back back, back back!

Sry was that to far? My bad, still learning the ropes

Sry wont happen again, except the other one I have on this thread after that one, I apologize for that to.

Ivan - you dont rate IA books as canon, but include in canon FFG books? Really?

Just because they HAVE them doesnt mean they UNDERSTAND them. There is a difference between running a production line and understanding how it works. Most people can operate a computer, can possibly even build one from basic components - but ask them to understand microcode, or how an FPU works, or how you deal with binary vs decimal numbver representations, and you would have a series of blank looks.

IoM have "better" plasma? By "better" do you mean 1/6 chance of harming the operator (top canon, gets hot!) or with prolonged use can explode, shredding a carapace armoured scout? (Sons of Dorn) You say they are only "rarely" used on higher settings, but canon disagrees with you...

The IoM is, on the whole, regressing technology wise. Old ships that they CANNOT replace are destroyed. Inferior replacements for key battle lines are made (ref: macharius as an inferior baneblade, some "inferior" russ knock offs on non mainline forgeworlds, and so on) and they are gradually losing knowledge.

Yes, they make advances. Incremental ones.

Im not sure the IoM could regress much further to be honest, alot of their old stuff is better yes. However they do make GOOD things still, not as good no, but they cant lose knowledge of what they are currently making.

When you compare the weapons roles Tau beat the imperium in almost every category. While the imperium is slowly making very small changes, the Tau are possibly the fastest technologicaly advancing race (thats the point of them, not a real threat now but they will be if they keep growing).

A lot of the most powerful equipment the IoM has is being destroyed without the ability to replace it. As Nosferatu said they can make very basic copies (the same way I could assemble a computer from parts without understanding how they work) but they aren't as good. Thats why old SM chapters value their relic equipment. It's not just emotional, the older armour and weapons are better.

Unfoprtunately I have forgeotten the source (I believe it was a WD) but there was a paragraph about forge worlds. Lots of items are only made on one forgeworld. If that forge world is lost the information is gone.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Ivan - you dont rate IA books as canon, but include in canon FFG books? Really?

Just because they HAVE them doesnt mean they UNDERSTAND them. There is a difference between running a production line and understanding how it works. Most people can operate a computer, can possibly even build one from basic components - but ask them to understand microcode, or how an FPU works, or how you deal with binary vs decimal numbver representations, and you would have a series of blank looks.

IoM have "better" plasma? By "better" do you mean 1/6 chance of harming the operator (top canon, gets hot!) or with prolonged use can explode, shredding a carapace armoured scout? (Sons of Dorn) You say they are only "rarely" used on higher settings, but canon disagrees with you...

The IoM is, on the whole, regressing technology wise. Old ships that they CANNOT replace are destroyed. Inferior replacements for key battle lines are made (ref: macharius as an inferior baneblade, some "inferior" russ knock offs on non mainline forgeworlds, and so on) and they are gradually losing knowledge.

Yes, they make advances. Incremental ones.

I rate them as cannon,but I don't use them because they contradict everything else(idiotic events like SM acting out of character in Taros and IA8 when ships in orbit are totally ignored).
Yet Imperium has millions of commercial ships as per 3rd edition rulebook and using 1 in 10 war ships are argument we get minimum 200,000 warp capable warships(and that probably doesn't include SM and Adeptus Mechanicus fleets).
Common aproach to 40k that everything is cannon,that means that 610 gigaton torpedo from Space Hulk 1st editon is cannon.
Besides Kill Team says that Pulse Rifles aren't fully energy weapons.
Using the heresy numer of 16'000 odd fleets.

Low end. Using 50 ships per fleet. = 800'000 Ships
Med end. Using 75 ships per fleet. = 1'200'000 Ships
High End. Using 150 ships per fleet. = 2'400'000 Ships

Im sure the Imperial forces would do what they did on Tyran, the first invasion of 'nids. Shoot a blackbox into the crust with valuable tech blueprints, and know-how. They arent dumb.

Or send it out via astropath, with their distrss signal.

I wonder if eldar have the same gripe about the imperium when they were on the great crusade.

I wonder if eldar have the same gripe about the imperium when they were on the great crusade.

Haha probably, but it took the Imperium alot longer to get to where it is. However the Imperium was PRETTY BRUTAL. I just dislike the Tau and their Naivity of the galaxy. As I said before, I hope they invite the Swarmlord to their main sector of space for peacetalks, with his billions of body guards.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:
Exactly! As i said, they seem very naive of the way the galaxy works. "hey those green fellas over there seem like some good guys, im sure they will help our cause."

That also happens in Tyranid codex where they throw party for Necrons when they destroy Tyranid ships,then the Necrons proceed to kill every Tau on the planet(can't remember the name right now) and also happens when they give Tau from each cast to this guy as a part of cultural exchange,after that DE kill every Tau and their allies on the planet and after that their bodies are used to form sigils which could be interpret as ALLYOURBASEBELONGTOUS! answer from Vect.

Are you saying he doesnt look trust worthy, cuz I think quite the opposite

So does anyone want to provide an official source where it says that the Tau have trouble producing their tech in large numbers or are you guys just going to keep saying it without proof

So do you want to provide proof that its not? I will gladly say im wrong if I am, but you cannot tell me that common sense doesnt dictate the a flak vest is harder to mass produce than watever it is Tau wear, and that a plasma rifle is less expensive than a LASGUN

about the production. You could say that IoM has Economies of scale on there side. that is, as more is produced, the cheeper it is do produce more. they dont have production anyware on the same scale. Tau i think went for the, lets serply or small number of troops with good guns as aposed to lets supply our large numbr of troops with no so good weapons.

about the production. You could say that IoM has Economies of scale on there side. that is, as more is produced, the cheeper it is do produce more. they dont have production anyware on the same scale. Tau i think went for the, lets serply or small number of troops with good guns as aposed to lets supply our large numbr of troops with no so good weapons.

Yes exactly my point, the Tau equips each person better than the average IG, only because they have the ability to. The IoM cannot. It basically this. A couple million Tau, equipped with excellent weapons. Or a couple billion IG with crappy armor and average guns. Its a numbers game really. If you have billions of rounds coming at you from down range, it doesnt matter how good your armour or weapons are. You will drownd in the las fire.

Its good that the Tau can do this though, good for them. As far as winning a full scale war with another race except MAYBE Eldar, I will always have to side with the opponent of the Tau for pure logic.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Remember: AI = tech heresy of the highest order!

As I said: incremental upgrades.

Nothing NEW, totally new, has been created.

BTW: just because they had cloaks before Tau doesnt mean they still can cloak - in fact they cant. Nemesis showed just how much has been lost - even around the Great Crusade.

This is why most of the AdMechs drive is in rediscovering STCs - they simply dont understand the technology as well as they would like.

It's kind of funny though because a Machine Spirit is just an AI.

The Imperium has the serious stagnation of technology because of superstition and ridiculous dogma like "bolters have to be blessed" and "the machine starts up because the priests perform the "ritual" and the need to hardwire lobotomized zombies in place of a computer. Yeah yeah at least they finally accepted that the world was flat and revolved around the sun and such despite the silly superstitions what held scientists back (took a bit though). The Tau only have one dogma and that is whatever is good for the Tau. Imagine the leaps and bounds in 2 centuries here on real Earth, compared to the thousands of years beforehand, just because the stranglehold of dogma loosended its hold a bit. Too bad we couldn't keep that up for thousands of years at the exponential rate that gave birth to the industrial revolution and so on, maybe then the IG would be carrying hald-held-computer-guided-super-powered-ammo-efficient etc etc guns. Instead, they get lasguns, which are at least ammo efficient, if you perform the ritual of maintenance on it first and burn a candle in the emprah's name. (or a campfire, whatever).

IvanTih wrote:@xxSir
Excuse me,IOM has better plasma weaponry,better broadsides on ships(besides Tau suck in BFG) and they also have railguns.The biggest Tau fanboy is Andy Hoare who wrote fluff for Deathwatch RPG and those pile of shi* Rogue Trader novels(Tau wan* isn't his only sin,he also makes combat ranges extremly short and which are hundreds of kilometres while every other source tells us tens of thousand kilometres or more,he also ignores the fact that Imperium has railguns).

No, the Tau have better Broadsides!

xXSir MontyXx wrote:

Back back back, back back!

Sry was that to far? My bad, still learning the ropes

Sry wont happen again, except the other one I have on this thread after that one, I apologize for that to.

I think he was just saying the sounds the aliens in the film made, but it is kind of off topic.


Really the main thing that helped out the Tau was that warpstorm. They were discovered in their crappy primitive state and it was pretty much the main reason why the planet wasn't cleansed then and there. If it hadn't happened it would just be some IoM planet right now, probably dead after a nid attack. Also it mentioned the Warpstorms consumed the ships on the way there and surrounded the planet rather than engulf it. With travel impossible and the Ethereals they basically had 6000 years of peace and nothing to interrupt their progress.

As it has been mentioned their story is pretty bad.

o ok I assumed since he was a moderator..........

how does quoting a random forum poster equate to an official citation? Although I'll admit that there are elements of plot armor to the Tau race's survival, I refuse to believe it's any more mary sue-ish than space marines, blood angels, or a host of the memorable events in the 40k world. We've seen that they have trouble stopping concentrated Imperial assaults (damocles gulf, the aftermath of Hive Fleet Gorgon, Taros) and that for the most part, they are ignored as a secondary threat in light of the tyranid encroachments along the eastern fringe. Their technology is locally superior in direct ground combat, yet they lack massed artillery and some of the more advanced space ship tech. So far, the major engagements we've heard about Damocles Gulf/Taros et al have been wars of manuever and precision which is where the Tau excel.

Tau warfare (at least as it applies to the various Imperium invasions) can be compared to the responses to the various hive fleets by the Imperium, except on a micro scale. They fall back, fight delaying actions, destroy small pockets of enemy forces and generally cede ground until sufficient strength has been accrued to launch an assault on the weakened foe or make a stand at a particularly important place. Massed numbers and overall more powerful tech doesn't mean squat if you can't bring those numbers or tech to bear. Again, local superiority wins the day over general killy-ness. It has been stated time and again that the IoM does not lightly bombard planets as they are a precious and finite resource so generally speaking, that option is out except in the most dire circumstances.

As for punching a hole and liquefying characteristics of tau railgun technology. I suggest that you look up Armor Piercing Fin Stabilized Discarding Sabot rounds for modern battle tanks as well as "spall" damage. The kinetic energy of a super dense material traveling at hypersonic speeds impacting a sheet of armor at rest is quite substantial. Should the penetrator be surrounded by a ballistic sheeth, you can have several various effects happen. The sheeth will liquify or simply convert to heat energy while the penetrator continues, penetrates the armor and perhaps continues out the other side.

According to fluff (3rd edition tau codex), railguns "set the air on fire" which to me sounds like incredible friction from the round passing through the air (perhaps even peeling away the sheeth which could be the range limitation). the incredible speed of the round will create shockwaves in front of it and perhaps even a vacuum behind it as it penetrates armor. Extreme, ultra-rapid pressure changes can substantially harm human.

ShadowAngel159 wrote:Honorable? The Tau? I don't think that "Join us or die" is very honorable.

Here's a standard expansion of the Tau Empire:

Tau: Hello, new world! Would you like to join our empire for the Greater Good? We'll treat you as second-rate citizens, use your military as cannon fodder for our superior military and guns, and force you to help us make better technology by taking yours! All for the Greater Good! Would you like to join us?
Planet: No. Go away now.
Tau: Fine... then we'll do this the hard way.
**Tau invasion fleet comes in and takes over. Native population becomes second-rate citizens. Laws for population control take place. Majority of people become labor force. Military becomes cannon fodder for Tau Fire Caste. Any and all useful technology is taken away and used by the Tau for future conquests. All for the "Greater Good."**

Now, I don't know about you, but I don't find socialism (or communism, whatever you want to call it) very honorable. Because that is what the Tau are: Socialists. In Space. They say "Everyone is equal." Here is how it really is: "Everyone is equal. The Tau are just more equal. And the Ethereals are even more equal." Also, their policy for expansion is "Join us or die" pretty much.

Yes, I will admit that the Tau are unified unlike the Imperium, and maybe even a little more advanced than the Imperium (please don't kill me, Imperial fanboys. I'm on your side [sorta]). But NO race in all of 40k is truly honorable. None. Not even the Tau and their so-called "Greater Good." If you say no to what they want from you, they will pick up their rifle and shoot you in between the eyes, just like every other race in all of Warhammer 40,000. All for the "Greater Good."

Citations? Tau codex, Dawn of War (yes I use that as a citation. I consider that game to be fluff) tau ending, various books with the Tau in them (I do not remember specific names so please do not ask me for them), a lot of the Tau Empire fluff.

Grey Templar wrote:have you read about how the T'au actually organize their Empire internally. they are incredibly favorable to T'au over other allies.

when a planet is conquored they immediatly Sterilize all disenting individuals so only those who are loyal to the T'au empire can reproduce.

Non-T'au are treated as 2nd class citizens. they have to work much harder then a T'au in a similer job would have to. they explain it by saying "You must prove your loyalty to the Greater Good"

the T'au use non-t'au soldiers as cannon fodder. Humans, Vespids, and Kroot are all viewed as expendable troops.

the T'au also compress the 4 castes. neither can cross breed with the other and are stuck with doing the jobs in their particular sphere.

I am really sick of all the people who have absolutely no clue about the Tau but intentionally make up stuff that is in direct contradiction to official texts and present it as facts. But hate and racism are no substitute for competence. Instead of proving all the nonsense in the above posts wrong, I just quote the original designer notes:

Original designer notes wrote:In contrast to other races, we wanted the Tau to be altruistic and idealistic, believing heartily in unification as the way forward. This meant that they would happily incorporate other races into their empire without subjugating them, instead enticing them in with the benefits of mutual protection, trade and technology.(emphasis by me)

sorry, but the stuff i said is in the fluff.

naturally the T'au codex won't say anything bad about them.


those things are in many different sources. BL books like Courage and Honor(Fire Caste members are hyper agressive and can only be controlled by Etherials. likely a result of selective breeding overseen by the Etherials) and the role playing games(which offer a more intimate view of the fluff)





in the end the T'au are no better then any other race even if they are willing to ally(in fact, those attempts have gotten them into trouble before. they tried to have peace settlements with orks, the result was the War of Dakka)

someday they will try to buddy up to a race and it won't result in a bloody nose and damaged ego. they really should expand the Farsight enclaves and make them more important. they could be really interesting.

Kroothawk wrote:

ShadowAngel159 wrote:Honorable? The Tau? I don't think that "Join us or die" is very honorable.

Here's a standard expansion of the Tau Empire:

Tau: Hello, new world! Would you like to join our empire for the Greater Good? We'll treat you as second-rate citizens, use your military as cannon fodder for our superior military and guns, and force you to help us make better technology by taking yours! All for the Greater Good! Would you like to join us?
Planet: No. Go away now.
Tau: Fine... then we'll do this the hard way.
**Tau invasion fleet comes in and takes over. Native population becomes second-rate citizens. Laws for population control take place. Majority of people become labor force. Military becomes cannon fodder for Tau Fire Caste. Any and all useful technology is taken away and used by the Tau for future conquests. All for the "Greater Good."**

Now, I don't know about you, but I don't find socialism (or communism, whatever you want to call it) very honorable. Because that is what the Tau are: Socialists. In Space. They say "Everyone is equal." Here is how it really is: "Everyone is equal. The Tau are just more equal. And the Ethereals are even more equal." Also, their policy for expansion is "Join us or die" pretty much.

Yes, I will admit that the Tau are unified unlike the Imperium, and maybe even a little more advanced than the Imperium (please don't kill me, Imperial fanboys. I'm on your side [sorta]). But NO race in all of 40k is truly honorable. None. Not even the Tau and their so-called "Greater Good." If you say no to what they want from you, they will pick up their rifle and shoot you in between the eyes, just like every other race in all of Warhammer 40,000. All for the "Greater Good."

Citations? Tau codex, Dawn of War (yes I use that as a citation. I consider that game to be fluff) tau ending, various books with the Tau in them (I do not remember specific names so please do not ask me for them), a lot of the Tau Empire fluff.

Grey Templar wrote:have you read about how the T'au actually organize their Empire internally. they are incredibly favorable to T'au over other allies.

when a planet is conquored they immediatly Sterilize all disenting individuals so only those who are loyal to the T'au empire can reproduce.

Non-T'au are treated as 2nd class citizens. they have to work much harder then a T'au in a similer job would have to. they explain it by saying "You must prove your loyalty to the Greater Good"

the T'au use non-t'au soldiers as cannon fodder. Humans, Vespids, and Kroot are all viewed as expendable troops.

the T'au also compress the 4 castes. neither can cross breed with the other and are stuck with doing the jobs in their particular sphere.

I am really sick of all the people who have absolutely no clue about the Tau but intentionally make up stuff that is in direct contradiction to official texts and present it as facts. But hate and racism are no substitute for competence. Instead of proving all the nonsense in the above posts wrong, I just quote the original designer notes:

Original designer notes wrote:In contrast to other races, we wanted the Tau to be altruistic and idealistic, believing heartily in unification as the way forward. This meant that they would happily incorporate other races into their empire without subjugating them, instead enticing them in with the benefits of mutual protection, trade and technology.(emphasis by me)

about the same thing i said, just without the formality

Blaha Blahaha!!!!!!!
You can tell what you want... Tau are just an unhappy add-on to the 40K universe...
Oooooh..... better weapons??? How many shots do you have in that pulse rifle??? 500??? impressive!
We are 10.000 only in the smallest ship dude!!! muhahahah
FORR THE EMPEROR!!!!

... And.... what are you doing here??? uuuuuhuuuu.... what a nice ordered world.... So bad it's full of xenos... let us make you a present; it's called Cyclonic Torpedo... Wanna see how does it work?

... a race designed to be the bunch of fooll geeks in the galaxy can't be taken seriously!
Space otakus eheh

punkow wrote:Blaha Blahaha!!!!!!!
You can tell what you want... Tau are just an unhappy add-on to the 40K universe...
Oooooh..... better weapons??? How many shots do you have in that pulse rifle??? 500??? impressive!
We are 10.000 only in the smallest ship dude!!! muhahahah
FORR THE EMPEROR!!!!

... And.... what are you doing here??? uuuuuhuuuu.... what a nice ordered world.... So bad it's full of xenos... let us make you a present; it's called Cyclonic Torpedo... Wanna see how does it work?

... a race designed to be the bunch of fooll geeks in the galaxy can't be taken seriously!
Space otakus eheh

Are you ok

That and the release of the first T'au codex matched perfectly with the first GW in Japan and happened in the middle of the Gundam craze.

did it really?

:(
I was hoping there was no correlation...