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well you say spider.............i see a tervigon

Lord of Deeds wrote:
The spider looks great, and to be honest, I like all the new O&G models. Not sure I like the paint job on the boars though.

As for the book, a little bit more mixed. I really do hope they plan on offering a soft cover version for practical reasons. As for the price, since GW is advertising a hard back full color army book which is what PP offers as well, we seem to have an opportunity to do an apples to apples comparison on value. PP forces of Kador hardcover book is $0.31 per page US compared to $0.36 per page US for the GW O&G hardcover book for about a 16% difference in price. Assuming that a lot of the content of the O&G book will be recycled (Art, flavor text, etc.) then it would seem that the book has a GW brand price premium built in since on it's face it is a poor value vis-a-vis the PP product offerings. But then we already knew that, right?

By coincidence just got today my Hordes rulebook and as a professional designer/illustrator that I'am I must say the illustrations/design levels of PP are worlds apart from the GW ones... really its a big big diference in quality.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Strikes of yet another short-term cash grab, probably started with some bean-counter going:

"Hey Jeff, our customers only ever buy one Codex book right? Well... let's make 'em more expensive then. I mean, if we're only going to sell one to each customer, might as well make as money money as we can."

When I read your first post my brain nearly shut down at seeing you post something not incredibly cynical. Glad you mulled it over and maintained the status quo.

Kanluwen wrote:33 more pages than the current Orcs & Goblin book, with the entire book being done in full color.
There's going to be a price bump if even just one case from those two parts had come to pass, not a price drop.

You can of course try and justify the new price in hardcover. But the fact is folks are saying $30 was their limit. Giving them things like "hardcover" or more recycled art or heavy metal pictures to bump the page count isnt what they want.....wont justify the new price to some. Or many.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

gr1m_dan wrote:After all the bashing GW has received I am utterly shocked at how well priced the army book is!!!

I hope my Tau codex gets hardback now :-D

It's a 33% price hike with no additional pages. Less than I thought but still rude.

But its "full-colour"... surely that counts for something.

It means we can enjoy the art recycled from 1993 in full color?

It means the fluff page where this one time some Orcs had a waagh and it was was awesome will now have a color border around it?


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Savage orcs are also $30 for 10, while most sets are usually $25 for 10. 20% hike.

I'd just like to reiterate this post. It rings true for me as well.

If we saw the 33% price rise mean that the army book or codex was merged into an additional fluff tome, so for example the new Empire book when it comes out is the combined weight and content of a previous style army book along with 'Uniforms and Heraldry', then it's taking that sting out somewhat.

But to go up by 33% with no additional pages AT ALL?!? c'mon, that's daylight fething robbery in it's self.

To those angrily defending and touting 'you don't have to play the game and you can leave at any stage', consider someone who's invested in an army for years and years and what they stand to lose if they now abandon the GW hobby and look to reinvest in a new wargame. They are a mite trapped and in their case, I'd give serious consideration to obtaining a download instead, illegal or not.

carmachu wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:33 more pages than the current Orcs & Goblin book, with the entire book being done in full color.
There's going to be a price bump if even just one case from those two parts had come to pass, not a price drop.

You can of course try and justify the new price in hardcover. But the fact is folks are saying $30 was their limit. Giving them things like "hardcover" or more recycled art or heavy metal pictures to bump the page count isnt what they want.....wont justify the new price to some. Or many.

Considering we don't know those 33 pages are recycled art or heavy metal pictures to bump the page count...

I'll kindly say wait until the Black Boxes this week.

Seriously considering picking one of the spiders up for a Kroot Conversion...

I've been considering building a 40K pre-heresy army, and the Spider may have sealed the deal. Using the spider in a diaroma for the battle on the planet Murder.

If not that I'm definitely going to use the spider as a base for Chaos Defilers as I dislike those models immensely.

epy346 wrote:The posts and blurbs seem indicate all-new or mostly new art. I haven't seen any recycled stuff just yet from the pictures, but we'll see how it goes.

Your right. What was I thinking to suggest or suspect that GW might recycle stuff as they have in 100% of their previously published material given that all of the promotional images show never before published content.

I mean it's a hardback book and full color! So it must be all new content and there won't be a single page that is nothing but a colored border with b&w illustrations, because by gosh GW said it was full color!

That said, final judgement should be properly defferred until the book is available to actually review. Let's just say my expectations are rather guarded. That said I have a lot of interest in this release given what it portends for WFB 8th Ed and GW's design focus going forward for not only WFB but all their core games.

carmachu wrote:You can of course try and justify the new price in hardcover. But the fact is folks are saying $30 was their limit. Giving them things like "hardcover" or more recycled art or heavy metal pictures to bump the page count isnt what they want.....wont justify the new price to some. Or many.

The worlds not fair. If $30 truly is a persons limit, they should probably have questioned to themselves getting into a hobby where they were putting themselve on the brink of impoverishment to play. Whether a person decides to continue their hobby is their personal choice. The product by all rational: material, effort, and design is worth $37... it only stands to be seen if it truly is worth that to the individual. This like all of Games Workshop products is a luxury item, that we all can go on living without. So those who think its worth it will have, and those who don't won't. This is how the world works.

aka_mythos wrote:This like all of Games Workshop products is a luxury item, that we all can go on living without. So those who think its worth it will have, and those who don't won't. This is how the world works.

This is the ultimate truth, much as it may upset some to hear it.

SweetLou wrote:well you say spider.............i see a tervigon

I see a tervigon myself as well ;D

aka_mythos wrote:

carmachu wrote:You can of course try and justify the new price in hardcover. But the fact is folks are saying $30 was their limit. Giving them things like "hardcover" or more recycled art or heavy metal pictures to bump the page count isnt what they want.....wont justify the new price to some. Or many.

The worlds not fair. If $30 truly is a persons limit, they should probably have questioned to themselves getting into a hobby where they were putting themselve on the brink of impoverishment to play. Whether a person decides to continue their hobby is their personal choice. The product by all rational: material, effort, and design is worth $37... it only stands to be seen if it truly is worth that to the individual. This like all of Games Workshop products is a luxury item, that we all can go on living without. So those who think its worth it will have, and those who don't won't. This is how the world works.

What the heck is it with this board that no-one can argue with a sense of logic? Just because some-one has a limit doesn't mean they're at the brink of poverty and should have questioned about getting into the hobby. This is the dumbest thing I have heard said and makes zero sense. $30 is my limit for an army book because outside of the army list and points I find such a poorly written book not to be worth it. Just because I have a limit doesn't mean I am on the brink of impoverisement it just means I consider it to be poor value. I am just in the process of purchasing $300- $500 OOP Confrontation devourer and wolfen metal miniatures and usually purchase what I need/ want hobby wise without too much worry because I am well paid and have no debt out side of a mortgage.

Even though I can afford to pay more than $30 for an army book I won't - I may just buy the two I will need (DE and OK) or just complete the gradual withdrawal away from GW games - no longer play 40k and the only reason I have an 8ed book is because someone gave it too me - that book is a massive white elephant and certainly not worth it as a RULE book to play a game.

Putting in more pictures and badly written stories in to what is supposed to be a rule supplement book doesn't add value IMHO so I am not prepared to pay for it.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

aka_mythos wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

gr1m_dan wrote:After all the bashing GW has received I am utterly shocked at how well priced the army book is!!!

I hope my Tau codex gets hardback now :-D

It's a 33% price hike with no additional pages. Less than I thought but still rude.

But its "full-colour"... surely that counts for something.

It means we can enjoy the art recycled from 1993 in full color?

It means the fluff page where this one time some Orcs had a waagh and it was was awesome will now have a color border around it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Savage orcs are also $30 for 10, while most sets are usually $25 for 10. 20% hike.

I'd just like to reiterate this post. It rings true for me as well.

If we saw the 33% price rise mean that the army book or codex was merged into an additional fluff tome, so for example the new Empire book when it comes out is the combined weight and content of a previous style army book along with 'Uniforms and Heraldry', then it's taking that sting out somewhat.

But to go up by 33% with no additional pages AT ALL?!? c'mon, that's daylight fething robbery in it's self.

To those angrily defending and touting 'you don't have to play the game and you can leave at any stage', consider someone who's invested in an army for years and years and what they stand to lose if they now abandon the GW hobby and look to reinvest in a new wargame. They are a mite trapped and in their case, I'd give serious consideration to obtaining a download instead, illegal or not.

+1 To MGS.

I think the cost of the Savage Orcs is a little high.

Love the Giant Spider model. I'd like to look at the codex and determine if building an all goblin army will not be as disappointing on the table as it has been in the past.

The $40 army book is a complete rip off. They expect us to pay an additional $10 for a hardback book with no additional content. Like MGS said, I'd gladly pay additional money for an army book that was filled with a lot more content, be it hard or soft cover, but why do I want a hardcover army book that is basically the same as the softcover books? Give me a softcover option or I'll be downloading this book.

I had a thorough read of the book today. I came away impressed with the rules and the book itself. Very pretty with new pictures. As an O&G player I would have bought it eventually, but I pre-ordered it and Ive never pre-ordered a GW book before.

I'm going to reiterate a point I've made repeatedly.

The book is, quite possibly, not the same as the softcover book.

More likely, the book will also include examples of various Orc Waaghs! like the Heraldry books that we've seen.


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Niccolo wrote:I had a thorough read of the book today. I came away impressed with the rules and the book itself. Very pretty with new pictures. As an O&G player I would have bought it eventually, but I pre-ordered it and Ive never pre-ordered a GW book before.

Spill the beans on how it's laidout so we can get the whining about "NO NEW CONTENT! HIGHWAY ROBBERY! PIRATE IT! " out of the way please!

I love that spider model!!

Strap on some dakka, armour plates and spikes and we got a Snakebite Battlewagon.... might be stretching it, but that could be fun!!

Man, you guys, calm down, it is just a game. Is nothing sacred? I mean, really! We get a 112 page hardcover, full cover army book from GW for $37(which is cheap, the paper they print on and the color ink they use is PRICEY) and we get people throwing hissy fits like a bunch of 12 year old Justin Bieber fangirls! Really? Have you no balls?

If only people got this passionate about things that really matter, like animal abuse and environmental degradation, the world would be a better place.

_Tim?

Edit: Oh, yeah, and there is thing called "discount retailers" and eBay, where you can get any GW product for 20% off all the time.

I want to make a savage orc and goblin army now!

The thing that gets me about the 8ed book and probably all books that will come out now is that they fill it up with lots of pretty pictures when all I want is the rules so I can play the game. I would be willing to pay the same price if they toss the pictures, fluff and 'eavy metal crap and just give me condensed, easy to read rules.

Meh.

Kanluwen wrote: so we can get the whining about "NO NEW CONTENT! HIGHWAY ROBBERY! PIRATE IT! " out of the way please!

Not all the whining is "no new content" but for people like me a few extra pictures of painted models or additional stories of dubious value don't make it worth it - but as usual that point will bypass you.

Looking forward to seeing some of these in person. Not tempted to start an army, though... the savage boar boyz also look like they're about to fall off!

The price, I've thought about it... and I do agree that I wish there was some great new artwork, if they're going to include art in full-color. I do have the hordes book and trollbloods book and the artwork is the best part about it.

I do love full color, though, so I'm going to reserve judgement on what I think about the price-to-value of the book until I see it

Oh, and for all those who are whining about how the Savage orcs are $30 for 10, it is a fairly good price, considering the fact that you really don't need that many models to have a big pricey unit. Savage orcs are 8 points each, an that is without upgrades. And ther are always eBay sellers that sell the models without the boxes but still on the sprue for around 30-35% off. Just sayin'.

_Tim?

Tim... you think 8 points each is pricey

That's why I can't stomach horde armies. A box of ironguts (4) is $40 and gives me 200 points of chaos ogres with GWs and armor. A box of bulls (6) is $40 gives me over 250 points of chaos ogres, the exact value depending on what gear they have.

A box of savage orcs (10) is $30 and gives me 80 points... but it's certainly not the worst points-to-cost unit out there! Just not cheap... and people are certainly entitled to say as much. However, I thought the box of river trolls (3) were a bit expensive to make units out of at $45 a box... and they still give me 135 points.

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:Man, you guys, calm down, it is just a game. Is nothing sacred? I mean, really! We get a 112 page hardcover, full cover army book from GW for $37(which is cheap, the paper they print on and the color ink they use is PRICEY) and we get people throwing hissy fits like a bunch of 12 year old Justin Bieber fangirls! Really? Have you no balls?

If only people got this passionate about things that really matter, like animal abuse and environmental degradation, the world would be a better place.

_Tim?

Edit: Oh, yeah, and there is thing called "discount retailers" and eBay, where you can get any GW product for 20% off all the time.

I don't want a 112 page hardback book - it is a rule supplement book - and if they choose to use pricey ink etc that is their problem. As a customer I don't want it. As I, and several others have pointed out, and people like you & Kan seem to ignore and just go "whine whine be greateful etc" this is not a product we want and are willing to pay extra for. Even with new content etc the perceived increase in value is not present for us. So don't tar us all with the whining brush - you maybe happy with paying more for a pretty book but some of us only view them as supplemental rule books cluttered with stories and pictures as it is.

So, instead of buy each book as it comes out many of us will only buy the ones we use.

agnosto wrote:The thing that gets me about the 8ed book and probably all books that will come out now is that they fill it up with lots of pretty pictures when all I want is the rules so I can play the game. I would be willing to pay the same price if they toss the pictures, fluff and 'eavy metal crap and just give me condensed, easy to read rules.

Meh.

Dude, it would be cheaper to have less pictures and fluff, but then you end up with a much more boring game. Have you ever heard of Kings of War? It is a great game with a good system as far as I have heard, but has the worlds worst looking rules. Just plain 'ol text with some icon here and there. Completely dull and un-inspiring, which was why I never started the game, even though it is touted by it's fans as one of the best fantasy rules systems out there. It is just bad marketing all around.

Did I also mention my old soft cover army book is on its last legs, even after being taped and glue from day 1?

@Fullheadofhair: I am mostly just annoyed that you and others seem to take it all totally for granted. It is annoying as those of us who get excited about it have to deal with party-poopers.

_Tim?

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:Did I also mention my old soft cover army book is on its last legs, even after being taped and glue from day 1?

This is why I sometimes have mine spiral bound... an easy fix! I don't like hardcover simply because I already have so many books / accessories to carry. The small paperback rulebook for fantasy was a lifesaver, even though I enjoyed reading the hardback for awhile, it eventually got traded for practicality...

Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:
Dude, it would be cheaper to have less pictures and fluff, but then you end up with a much more boring game. Have you ever heard of Kings of War? It is a great game with a good system as far as I have heard, but has the worlds worst looking rules. Just plain 'ol text with some icon here and there. Completely dull and un-inspiring, which was why I never started the game, even though it is touted by it's fans as one of the best fantasy rules systems out there. It is just bad marketing all around.

Did I also mention my old soft cover army book is on its last legs, even after being taped and glue from day 1?

_Tim?

I have never read the fluff or looked at the pics more than once. I only lug the book around because I tend to forget rules and need to look them up. Give me the option of a 20-30 page rulebook with just what I need when I go play and I'd be a happy man. Fluff and stories and pretty pictures are all well and good for the hobbyists out there but I'm just not one of them.

You could just borrow the rulebook from a friend, and handcopy the rules that you need into Microsoft word, then just print it out, then you don't have to pay for it. Or you could try breaking and entering, grabbing the army book, madly scribbling the rules down in a notebook by the light of a flashlight, putting the book back, the leaving. Still don't have to pay, and it looks nice and bland enough to satisfy the gamer in you.

_Tim?

FINALLY!!!! some new Savage Orcs

I can see alot of Tyranid players using that Spider for conversions


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You think that's gonna be GWs new thing? Giant monsters as chariot/howdah creatures? granted there aren't many armies that could have them outside O&G and Lizardmen. Maybe Beastmen, be cool if TK got something like this.