News about changes to GW's product release marketing - New Info added 21/5/2011!

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**agnosto**

Cerebrium wrote:Nope, that's advertising.

GW don't believe in advertising.

They don't think it's real.

3

From Kirby himself:

Tom Kirby:
GW and Advertising
I have been a long-term shareholder in GAW and was excited about the prospects for the stock this year due to The Lord of the Rings. I live in the USA and I saw very very little advertising around Christmas to take advantage of the massive potential of the movie.
What do you plan to do this year?
Malcolm A P Barnes, Maine, USA

Tom says “As we operate in a niche market we find media advertising is not cost-effective compared to the marketing power of word of mouth. The Lord of the Rings sold up to expectation last year and we expect the same this year. I have to say do not expect sales of Lord of the Rings to enhance sales anymore than any other product we might release”

Why are you not advertising the game (The Lord of the Rings, The Two Towers) in the Movie theaters, video rental shops etc the way other people do?
Malcolm A P Barnes, Maine, USA

Tom says “We aren’t like ‘other’ companies. We operate in a niche market where media advertising is hardly ever cost-effective. The quality of the product and its availability to the right hobby buying enthusiasts is what drives our success.”

Funny. http://investor.games-workshop.com/information_for_investors/talk_to_tom/archive/default.aspx

**filbert**

The mind truly boggles...

**iproxtaco**

That man is has a genius unseen on this planet yet.

I say we all just die and coalesce in The Warp and form our own Hobby Emperor to save the little man from the Miniature Industry Depot that is Tom Kirby.

**SilverMK2**

And now the "free" advertising of the films stimulating interest in anything LOTR has vanished, the LOTR game is bombing even more than it was with the free indirect interest generation.

If they'd pushed the game when the films came out and you know... actually made people aware that it existed, they would have a much larger fan base to then help carry the game once the initial excitement died down.

Now it seems they have a handful of LOTR players and lots of people with armies sitting gathering dust with no real impetus to keep the game going simply because not enough people were drawn into the game in the initial phases because virtually no one outside of the "GW memo catchment area" was aware the game existed.

**Puscifer**

What a croc is all I'll say about this.

**Kanluwen**

SilverMK2 wrote:And now the "free" advertising of the films stimulating interest in anything LOTR has vanished, the LOTR game is bombing even more than it was with the free indirect interest generation.

If they'd pushed the game when the films came out and you know... actually made people aware that it existed, they would have a much larger fan base to then help carry the game once the initial excitement died down.

Now it seems they have a handful of LOTR players and lots of people with armies sitting gathering dust with no real impetus to keep the game going simply because not enough people were drawn into the game in the initial phases because virtually no one outside of the "GW memo catchment area" was aware the game existed.

They did 'push' the game a bit more than they do with 40k/FB. The LOTR game was everywhere. Barnes and Noble, Borders, K-Marts, Wal-Marts, et al. Pretty much anywhere that stocked toys or books had them.

Hell, a Blockbuster even carried the starter sets, the paint sets, and the two plastic sets for Good & Evil.

I do kind of/sort of agree with the idea that advertising isn't really going to help drive sales up in regards to their stuff. They did advertise at one point, and I'm fairly certain nothing really came out of it other than bad TV ads which can be found on Youtube.

**SilverMK2**

I didn't see anything like that here in the UK, other than in the games section of hobbycraft and in LGS/GW stores.

**Kanluwen**

That I think goes again towards the layouts of GW as a company in the country.

Here in the US, you have entire states without GW shops. There's plenty of space with no LGSes either.

**filbert**

I think WHSmith may have carried LOTR briefly but I certainly don't remember much else. You would only know that if you had stumbled in off the street and seen it.

**Kroothawk**

Tom says “As we operate in a niche market we find media advertising is not cost-effective compared to the marketing power of word of mouth."

Yeah, and Heroquest advertising never brought any new customers to 40k (insert Jedi hand wave).

Forthcoming annual report

:

Tom says: "... and we don't believe in the marketing power of word of mouth either. Just to make sure, we do everything to keep our new products hidden, sue the mouths and alienate our customers with ridiculous price hikes. That guarantees that we stay small and never get out of this niche."

**redeyed**

I think with regards to LOTR they are waiting for "The Hobbit" film to come out and do their advertising for them again.

They hope when it comes out people will buy the new "The Hobbit" mini's and that LOTR sales with increase lots to.

but..with their current pricing Im not sure even that will be enough to shift the stuff beyond a couple of plastic boxsets.

**ProtoClone**

Hmmm, don't know what to make of it.

On one hand this all seems very out there and crazy...but as amazingly bad of a move as this seems, it seems like it could happen. The fact we are actually discussing this topic and have not stepped back to see if more info pops up proving/disproving it all says we believe GW to be capable of this kind of action.

I agree that we should be email/mailing/calling GWHQ. We would do this not to express our disgust but to demand them to answer these rumors.

Contact GW, and express your interest in their answers to these rumors. Demand their birth certificate!

**Grimtuff**

bthom37 wrote:
Corey85 wrote:Not that anyone really cares about this, but a small part of me loves it when things fail. Its a weird personality thing, but I get a certain amount of pleasure watching the mighty fall, and strong things crumble.

I really want GW to stick around and continue to put out great stuff, but part of me would love to see them suffer the consequences of crapping on its customers.

Schadenfreude - look it up

Hubris- Get GW to look it up.

**MagickalMemories**

H.B.M.C. wrote:Why isn’t there an “I told you so!” Orkmoticon?

If there ever is, I vote that the code for it be :HBMC:

This is getting freaking ridiculous, GW!

**tarnish**

Im trying hard to be excited but i cant really get the bile to flow over this one. Seriously? you cant live without knowing everything months in advance? ill manage.

**BrassScorpion**

GW have decided that starting soon, nobody and that means absolutely nobody, other than the guys who deal with the products etc, will know what is in the pipework or being released until 1 WEEK before it's actual release date.

Many people plan out their gaming army purchases ahead of time being that it can get fairly expensive. If people don't know what's coming down the line a few weeks ahead of time they won't put money aside for it and in many instances I would imagine that by the time the announcement is made by GW some customers may have already spent their "toy" income for the month on something else. Those "Incoming" emails were pretty good advertising to a targeted, devoted customer base and they were cheap advertising since they were done via email. I cannot imagine why anyone would think it would help their sales to stop that practice.

**ashikenshin**

well, you don't HAVE to buy it the second it comes out. If you plan to buy a land raider now you still have to wait a couple of months before you have the money. Unless you always have to have the latest from gw then this would mean nothing to you.

**Cerebrium**

BrassScorpion wrote:
GW have decided that starting soon, nobody and that means absolutely nobody, other than the guys who deal with the products etc, will know what is in the pipework or being released until 1 WEEK before it's actual release date.
Many people plan out their gaming army purchases ahead of time being that it can get fairly expensive. If people don't know what's coming down the line a few weeks ahead of time they won't put money aside for it and in many instances I would imagine that by the time the announcement is made by GW some customers may have already spent their "toy" income for the month on something else. Those "Incoming" emails were pretty good advertising to a targeted, devoted customer base and they were cheap advertising since they were done via email. I cannot imagine why anyone would think it would help their sales to stop that practice.

Nail/head. This is my problem with it. I would understand a little if it actually cost a lot to do. It's one email. Doesn't even need pictures or anything, just a quick notice, "Hey, x is coming out soon!".

I honestly do not know what they expect to gain from this.

**LavuranGuard**

Big P wrote:
Just correcting that... My hobby is fine with, or without GW.

Oh, and cheaper... Gotta love Historicals!

Piers, good to see you here, I should be able to now buy AV in Osprey format with the money I might have spent on GW.

PS I'm SirTainly over at The Guild

**Death By Monkeys**

BrassScorpion wrote:
GW have decided that starting soon, nobody and that means absolutely nobody, other than the guys who deal with the products etc, will know what is in the pipework or being released until 1 WEEK before it's actual release date.
Many people plan out their gaming army purchases ahead of time being that it can get fairly expensive. If people don't know what's coming down the line a few weeks ahead of time they won't put money aside for it and in many instances I would imagine that by the time the announcement is made by GW some customers may have already spent their "toy" income for the month on something else. Those "Incoming" emails were pretty good advertising to a targeted, devoted customer base and they were cheap advertising since they were done via email. I cannot imagine why anyone would think it would help their sales to stop that practice.

I'm not going to advocate for GW's proposed marketing approach - far from it. I think it's crappy. I will, however, admit that I've got a bad habit of putting off building and army today because I'm excited about what I see (or think I see) coming out in 3 months. So, I procrastinate on building an army today (and that means procrastinating on buying more models) until X shiny new army comes out. But by then, rumors for Y shiny new army have caught my attention, and since I have the attention of a cocker spaniel with ADD, I don't buy any models from X. I just keep lusting after what's shiny and new and continue to putter around with my existing Marines and IG.

**MajorTom11**

MagickalMemories wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:Why isn’t there an “I told you so!” Orkmoticon?

If there ever is, I vote that the code for it be :HBMC:

This is getting freaking ridiculous, GW!

+1

**Kroothawk**

tarnish wrote:Im trying hard to be excited but i cant really get the bile to flow over this one. Seriously? you cant live without knowing everything months in advance? ill manage.

GW says they compensate media advertising through the "marketing power of word of mouth". Then they do everything to destroy even that. Doesn't make sense.

**yournamehere**

Maybe they took Bill's advice went home and never came back...

A man can dream...

**tarnish**

Kroothawk wrote:
tarnish wrote:Im trying hard to be excited but i cant really get the bile to flow over this one. Seriously? you cant live without knowing everything months in advance? ill manage.

GW says they compensate media advertising through the "marketing power of word of mouth". Then they do everything to destroy even that. Doesn't make sense.

Yes i see that but mabye that word of mouth is more effective when the news really are news when the new product comes out. im sure they have seen a rise in sales when they kept things secret and therefore concluded that they need to go covert on the market to sell even more. I know its not a flawless plan but to that end i kinda get it.

**Surtur**

BrassScorpion wrote:
we all know full well that GW doesn't DO advertising.
I constantly see what appears to be criticism of GW for "not advertising". Do people realize that advertising costs money? And that the cost of that advertising is passed along to consumers?

Have you ever purchased anything that was a no-name product and found that it was just as good or nearly as good as something just like it with a name brand that had a significantly higher cost? Ever wonder why your name brand sneakers are criminally over-priced? Part of that reason is advertising, a big part of it. How much does Nike spend on network TV, major newspapers, magazines, the Internet, etc. to advertise? More than all the people on this forum will see put together in a lifetime.

So if you think GW product is expensive now, keep wishing for them to do traditional advertising on TV, in magazines, etc. and be happy you did when the cost gets passed along to you.

GW still sells more toys than most of their direct competition, you know, the other companies that advertise while GW "doesn't advertise". Gee, maybe they are doing something correctly, like I don't know, advertising maybe?

Which takes me to my next point of course. Another angle on this topic would be that GW DOES ADVERTISE. Their computer game licensing, adverts for free miniatures in gaming magazines like PC Gamer that accompany video game ads, years ago they took out ads in the City Paper, are all cases of GW ADVERTISING. Product reviews for both their tabletop games and licensed products also provide advertising. So do their licensed products like boardgames, RPG books, etc. Just because they are not paying millions of dollars on network TV doesn't mean they don't advertise. Advertising takes many forms. So do unfounded accusations and criticisms. Criticism is fine, if it's constructive and backed up by facts. Facts are good. Uninformed complaints are bad.

Consider this: GW stores are pure advertisement. Their advertisement takes a different route than TV and costs far more than a single commercial would.

**Kurgash**

When does this go into effect?

**Osbad**

GW's business plan:

1. Develop a business that is good at producing high volume, low cost product.
2. Kill any retailer that is able to deliver high volume sales, and install a pricing strategy that chokes off your growth.
3. Stop telling anyone about what you produce.
4. ????
5. Profit.

Clever, clever people. Wish I'd thought of that!

**Kilkrazy**

BrassScorpion wrote:If people don't think there's cross-marketing between GW and their licensed products that is both intentional and incidental that I would say is fallacious. Highly fallacious. Sure, no one has ever bought a GW product for the first time after reading a Black Library book or playing a licensed video game, boardgame or RPG. And of course, vice versa. Highly plausible. Yeah.

That's it for me. Unsubscribe. As previously stated, you can't argue with "true believers".

The thing against your theory is that sales volume has been falling for GW since the end of the LoTR boom, despite all the licenced video, RPG and board games.

This shows that the spin off products are not sucking droves of new players into the core ranges.

**Myrthe**

Surtur wrote:
Consider this: GW stores are pure advertisement. Their advertisement takes a different route than TV and costs far more than a single commercial would.

But then why does GW almost indiscriminately shut down stores and render not only states, but entire regions, barren of them ?

**H.B.M.C.**

Osbad wrote:GW's business plan:

1. Develop a business that is good at producing high volume, low cost product.
2. Kill any retailer that is able to deliver high volume sales, and install a pricing strategy that chokes off your growth.
3. Stop telling anyone about what you produce.
4. ????
5. Profit.

Clever, clever people. Wish I'd thought of that!

*bows before Osbad*

You said it before I could. Well done sir.