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Yeah it's pretty fun, especially if you wanted to play an RPG as a Space Marine enjoying all the best aspects of being a Fluff Marine. There's nothing "Only Human" about you... you are, truly, one of the God-Emperor's Angels of Death.

How does it compare to Dark Heresy, me and my FLGG are thinking of starting something like that up

The mechanics are identical, for the most part, with the added system of "Squad Cohesion" which allows members of the kill-team to function either as stand-alone Marines or to grant bonuses and effects to themselves and other team-mates as long as they are in Squad Mode, which requires them to be either within a certain range of each other, performing certain actions, and so forth. This is expressed as a pool of points that can be lost or regained by different methods.

The gear is much more powerful than that carried by Dark Heresy retinues, and the enemies much, much nastier. I won't put my DH group up against most of the things in DW without having an NPC Kill-Team on hand, or allowing the Retinue to gather several cannon-fodder allies.

Otherwise? It's like Dark Heresy on steroids, at least in the gun battles. Space Marines are not detectives in the way that an Inquisitor and her retinue is.

They actually went overboard and had to release a FAQ weakening the Deathwatch weapons to more fluff-consistent levels.

The original marine weapons are closer to movie marines, while the faq'd weapons are essentially very high quality non-astartes weapons (slightly more damage and pen and more relaible usually, IIRC).

Do you still get to pick career paths and if so are they like DH or are they Tactical, Assault, Devastator and whatnot?

TheAngrySquig wrote:Is Deathwatch the game any good?

Really depends on what you're looking for.

When Dark Heresy is "Cthulhu 40k", Deathwatch is basically "Exalted". It's the same basic mechanics as DH and RT, the characters just get a ton of special rules making them stronger/tougher and their enemies weaker to provide a more "epic" experience with a way higher kill count. The term Movie Marines is quite accurate, I think, even with the errata'd weapons.

I wouldn't recommend crossovers at all (normal humans pale much, much more next to Marines than in GW's books, so I tend to think it makes for a very poor representation of the characters affected by this artificially magnified power gap), but if you keep the games apart they all have something going for them. Deathwatch is essentially "300" with boltguns and chainswords. Your four Marines on one side and a thousand 'nids on the other. Come to think of it, the feeling might be comparable to the new Space Marine videogame as well.

And yeah, the "careers" are what you know from the tabletop - your character can basically specialize in becoming an Assault Marine etc.

The rules have some ups and downs (the "incompatibility" issue being my personal main gripe), but I'd suggest to just give it a try. You should still be able to download that introductory adventure from FFG's website, maybe just run a test game with your mates?

I think we'll probably check it out. We're on a bit of a 40k, break, and we're thinking of starting Fantasy and maybe an RPG for a little.

You pick a career path, in a sense, in that you choose what sort of Marine you are, and you pick your Home Chapter, although only certain Chapters are, thus far, represented in the game. All of the most popular ones, and then one kind of odd-ball Chapter, imo.

You're not picking a DH class, since you're a Space Marine, not a regular scrub human, your life's goals have already been pretty well selected for you. You're never old enough to be anything listed in DH before being selected to become a Space Marine, so that's all out.

Still, it's pretty awesome. I must have missed the DW errata announcement, so I will need to brush up on that before my next game and break the bad news to the players. As I am the GM, and a cruel, heartless bastard who sups upon tears as if they were fine wine besides, then this will not be a problem.

Are the Space Sharks represented because they're one of my favorite chapters. Also Astral Claws, cause I have a German Shepherd

Not that I recall, off hand. I believe the default Chapters are Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Ultramarines, Iron Hands, Crimson Fists and Space Wolves.... could be wrong, though, I don't have my DW book on hand.

EDIT: I think the Black Templars also get a mention.

The default chapters are:

Black Templars
Blood Angels
Dark Angels
Space Wolves
Storm Wardens (new chapter, a sort of Scottish Highlander theme. Blue armor, silver shoulders, hands, and legs below the knees)
Ultramarines

Other chapters are added in supplements. But these are the ones in the core rulebook. There is (or is going to be? I haven't kept up with deathwatch) one which allows you to create a custom chapter IIRC.

Excellent, I haven't heard of the Stormwardens before

I believe they are new to the DW game, but otherwise are a fairly standard Codex chapter.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Storm_Wardens

Melissia wrote:The default chapters are:

Black Templars
Blood Angels
Dark Angels
Space Wolves
Storm Wardens (new chapter, a sort of Scottish Highlander theme. Blue armor, silver shoulders, hands, and legs below the knees)
Ultramarines

Other chapters are added in supplements. But these are the ones in the core rulebook. There is (or is going to be? I haven't kept up with deathwatch) one which allows you to create a custom chapter IIRC.

I believe the "Rites of Battle" supplement has rules for creating your own chapter.

I haven't played Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, or Deathwatch, but have a lot of the books on them for when I get around to organising a campaign for one of the three. Whenever that will be.

Psienesis wrote:I must have missed the DW errata announcement, so I will need to brush up on that before my next game and break the bad news to the players.

Huh, well, if the old stats work for you, keep 'em?
It's not like you'd have any kind of obligation there - it's just that a lot of people complained about stuff dying too fast and the heavy bolter making any other weapon useless. If your group would prefer to keep the weapons as they are and you as a GM didn't have a problem with them either, no reason to change things. Publicly, the new weapon stats aren't even a real errata but "optional rules" supposedly intended to "minimize dice rolls" (there's some diplomacy for ya). That said, the newer books such as Black Crusade all use these "optional" weapon stats...

Here's the link for you, btw: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/deathwatch/news/faq/Deathwatch%20Living%20Errata%20v1-1.pdf

Yse, that's because a lot of people are under the delusion that movie marines = fluffy marines.

And table Guardsman = fluff Guardsman.

Fluff Guardsman are hardcore, legit, soldiers, but many people don't go to deep into fluff and end up with ideas like "Guard are squishy on the table so they must be squishy in the fluff"

A novel is fluff. A video game is fluff. A movie is fluff. Fluff is anything that is not "hard canon" or "by the rulebook". 40K, having no real "hard canon" blurs the lines rather a bit, though.

So does Deathwatch feel more like "I'm an Astartes and I'm here to mess up your day with bolt shells." and DH feel like "I'm a person and I am going to ruin your day but could still get hit."

Yes, sort of. Depends on the sort of game you are running, though.

In DW, you are Space Marines, carrying Astartes class boltguns, for when you absolutely, positively have to kill every motherfething xeno in the room, accept no substitute. The game is primarily combat-oriented and, though SM are tough, the enemies they fight in DW are in teeming hordes that basically just inflict damage every round, no hit rolls needed. The game, though, is fairly linear... get mission, deploy to target planet, execute mission, experience plot-twist or divergent plot-path, kill xenos*, complete objective. Rinse, repeat.

*= The "Kill xenos" step may appear throughout the game.

In Dark Heresy, because you're part of an Inquisitorial retinue, there's a lot more storyline to the game (IMO). Just because your boss has the power of the Rosette doesn't mean she wants to go kicking in doors and cracking skulls and preaching fire and brimstone and the Wrath of the God-Emperor from her armored Battle-Pulpit. Many Inquisitors prefer much more subtle method, offering all sorts of chances for undercover work, sneaking around to gather clues, stakeouts, shadowing/tracking suspects and otherwise playing like a police or detective drama... with big shoot outs and Inquisitorial authority getting flexed in a major way at the exciting climax.

So if you want to be Rambo go DW, but if you want to be James Bond go DH?

Pretty much, yes.

Nice, I think we'll probably do DH

My group has a lot of fun with DH. It offers them a much greater opportunity for "character interest" stories than DW or even RT might offer.

In my group's particular case, they have the main mission, which is my primary concern as the GM, and then three side-stories going on between the characters.

The first is their poor Vindicare Assassin, who has come to require Full Cybernetic Resurrection. Now that she's got the MIU and all the brain-ware, they keep plugging her in to various Xeno-machines and what-not, which has a very bad effect on her sanity. The Interrogator is convinced that the "dark figure" drifting about in her shattered psyche is actually a daemon, and so is going to attempt to exorcise her. There is a daemon present, though just not in their Assassin, but on the periphery, waiting for something like this to happen because...

.... the Adept of the party has acquired Psychic Talents due to his study of esoteric and forbidden lore. Problem is... he's not yet sanctioned. The Inquisitor keeps him in a warded and sealed chamber on their ship, as circumstances dictate that they cannot delay to find a Black Ship, and his knowledge is too precious to splatter on the wall with a bolt-round. He has been in "email" conversation with the Assassin, who's brain is on ice while they build her a new cyborg body. Unfortunately for the Adept, this person he's becoming net-friends with over the ship's wireless is actually that daemon I mentioned earlier (they forgot to ward the cables and power lines coming into the Adept's room), who is building in the Adept the idea that the Interrogator is going to exorcise the Assassin, who will then have what's left of her soul thrust out of her body and need a place to reside... she tells the Adept that, since there's so very little of her left, she'll be able to co-habitate in his brain....
... meanwhile, one of the Tech-Priests in the party, has gone absolutely nuts, finding the Assassin to be a perfect specimen of one who has received the bountiful blessings of the Omnissiah (a 95% augmetic body reconstruction) and so is thinking of somehow absconding with her to his as-yet-unlocated secret Tech-Fortress.

As the GM, the only part I play is that of the Daemon, which was already present, but none of the players have detected yet.

So do you guys use 40k or Inquisitor size models?

When we need to use minis, which is not terribly often, we use a mix of 40K minis, Reaper minis, Steampunk minis, Battletech minis (they have great tank figs) and whatever else comes to hand.

Heck, I once represented a stalk-tank using a stuffed octopus doll that belonged to my girlfriend.

We don't use minis as our games are over online chat rooms. Generally, we go with trust on dice rolls, with GM coming down hard on any obvious roll fudging by injuring your character next time something happens (which is all the time), and not always physically injuring them...

Oh, we all live about 1,000 feet apart from each other

TheAngrySquig wrote:So do you guys use 40k or Inquisitor size models?

You could always play inquisitor too, since you get to RPG with a squad instead of an individual, and you get to just start your character over if it gets stale. Plus you get kroot.