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TrollPie wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

rob-or-ross wrote:Yes a single UV photon has more energy than a single IR photon but the power of a laser is about how many photons there are.
Given red and green lasers of the same energy the green will have fewer, higher energy photons.
The point it projects will look brighter since the human eye is more sensitive to the colour green.

Actually, you wouldn't see the colours by virtue of the beam is moving at the speed of light, unless it was both a lance and within our spectrum, in which case it would ACTUALLY BE a flashlight.

You wouldn't see the beam because unless you're really unlucky the laser doesn't reach your eye. Real lasers would be like laser pointers, with a single bright spot where the light originates and another spot where it hits. Unless there's smoke or something inbetween to scatter the beam you wouldn't see it. No need to bring the speed of the thing in to it.

Edit: Didn't see rob or ross's post.

Yeah, I was just having trouble phrasing it. English isn't my native language :$

Hey, don't worry about it.
Your English is better than a lot of posts I've seen from people who claim it as a first language.


COIL lasers are interesting but the technology doesn't lend itself well to a portable weapon.
It contains a chemical reaction producing Oxygen in a special state that has to be pumped through the lasing chamber a extremely high flow rates.
The frequency of light it produces is useful for attacking metal but the system wouldn't fit in a self contained weapon.

Who knows what kind of solid state laser systems they'll have in the future?

rob-or-ross wrote:Hey, don't worry about it.
Your English is better than a lot of posts I've seen from people who claim it as a first language.


COIL lasers are interesting but the technology doesn't lend itself well to a portable weapon.
It contains a chemical reaction producing Oxygen in a special state that has to be pumped through the lasing chamber a extremely high flow rates.
The frequency of light it produces is useful for attacking metal but the system wouldn't fit in a self contained weapon.

Who knows what kind of solid state laser systems they'll have in the future?

I was just thinking with the COIL that with their mastery of lasers in the IoM, they could have down sized? Because their lasers seem to be of mid-level effectiveness against flesh, but quite good against non-necron metals in the fluff, and COIL lasers would fit this description.

Whether or not a lasweapon cauterizes or not depends on alot of factors: the manner in which the energy is delievered (how it is concentrated or not concentrated, speed/duration of the delivery of the energy, the nature of the target, the quantity of energy, etc.) Las weapons in fluff don't always cauterize - in fact sometimes they don't even cause burning - they will let a target bleed out. Other times they are heat ray weapons (EG they inflict burns). Some may only drill a hole through a target. Others may slice and dice. Some may behave like a flamethrower (like in legion - variable aperture.) Some will cause explosive effects at the target area in some manner or another (or explosive vaporization if you prefer, or steam explosion, or whatnot.) Some may actually combine those qualities (the Inquisitor RPG described lasweapons as burning aND exploding...)

It also depends alot on what you think a las weapon is too. Some examples aren't even lasers (depends on the author and the source.)

Alright, hehe i've got a good Lasgun question:
Seeing as we know the 2 main forms of Las-weaponry power levels, the Lascannon and the Lasgun, how do the other 3 forms of Las weaponary play into the spectrum?
-the Multilaser
-the Hellgun/ Hellpistol
-the Hotshot Lasgun/ Laspistol

I am particularly interested in how the Hotshot and the Multilaser work as they fall outside of the basic pattern of more power= more penetration. Anyone got any ideas?

The multi-laser is a multi-barreled weapon powered by large, disposable power cells. It's generally a vehicle-mounted weapon. As with most other lasweapons, size matters... at least, in so far as the power cell is concerned. Bigger power cells mean more power to the shot. The Multilaser is, basically, the mini-gun or Vulcan cannon of the laser-weapon world. It is weaker than a lascannon, but offers a much higher rate of fire, and is significantly more powerful than a standard lasgun.

The Hellgun and Hellpistol are extremely advanced, high-quality laser weapons carried almost exclusively by Imperial Stormtrooper regiments. They are powered by backpack-mounted power supplies, which offer greater range, damage and penetration capabilities to the weapons. They are, compared to the standard lasgun, hell on wheels. They are being very slowly phased into the rest of the IG Munitorum supply chain. Eventually, hellguns will be the standard weapon of the IG.

The Hotshot variant of the lasgun is less a modification of the weapon and more a modification of its powercell, though this can vary depending on the source you are reading. In some sources, a "hotshot" powercell can be used in a standard lasgun and provides more damage and armor penetration at a much lower number of potential shots. Some sources state that a hotshot cell contains enough charge for a single, high-power, long-range shot for penetrating high-armor targets.

Other sources state that the hotshot lasgun is a sniper-variant of the lasgun, offering all the things a sniper weapon does: greater range, higher penetration, significant damage at a reduced rate of fire and lower ammo supply.

Okay, where are you getting the info on the hellguns being phased into being standard ig use. Please forgive my skepticism. But one, the lasgun is easier to manufacture, and maintain. 2. Doubtful GW would change the iconic lasgun. But if you got sources then i'd love the idea of having ap5 lasguns.
Feth your armor saves geq.

The Stormtrooper class description and Hellgun/Hellpistol weapon descriptions in Dark Heresy: Ascension.

Psienesis wrote:The Stormtrooper class description and Hellgun/Hellpistol weapon descriptions in Dark Heresy: Ascension.

Where? What page? Just skimmed it and must of missed it.

I thought Stormtroopers had Hot-shots?

Nope, hell-guns. Just like the Kasrkin. They might have had hotshots back in the days of yore, but modern fluff puts hellguns in their hands.


Can't quote a page reference on the Ascension bit, I don't have the book on hand at the moment.

I thought the Kasrkin were STs?

TheAngrySquig wrote:I thought the Kasrkin were STs?

Kasrkrins are similar to ST, but still different.

Oh yall are talking about the guys in the not WD Witch Hunters dex.

I would just keep classifications simple, insofar as fluff goes. A laspistol is a single handed las weapon. Lasguns (or rifles) are two handed lasweapons. Hellpistols and hellguns follow the same definition, just add "more advanced". Lascarbine is "compact two hand lasweapon.) Multilasers are (rapid fire antipersonnel/antivehicle las weapon) Lascannon are "anti-armour" las weapons.

That's probably as precise as you will get. Variations in power pack, in design configuration (EG long-las, carbines, etc.), rates of fire, range, weight, and charge settings all make classifying lasweapons a tad messy (does a lasgun on maximum power classify as a full power round like 7.62mm NATO or does it qualify as an intermediate round like 5.56mm NATO, for example)

TheAngrySquig wrote:I thought Stormtroopers had Hot-shots?

They do - the two terms get used interchangeably. The 5E Codex flat-out uses both in the same wargear textbox. I suppose one could be the official term whereas the other is a nickname? Otherwise it's a mistake or a retcon, but I choose to go with the nickname.
It was never issued large scale to the Guard because the internal cooling mechanisms required to keep the weapon working are far more complex and maintenance-intensive than the sturdy lasgun, but for the more elite (and better-supported) Storm Troopers they're good.

As for the different ST types, there's:
- the one Imperial Guard Storm Trooper regiment, 10.000 guys tops, get deployed in company to battalion size all over the Imperium, high attrition rate but gets a steady supply of new recruits from the Schola
- Inquisition Storm Troopers, unknown number, same training and equipment as the IG STs, reserved for use by the Inquisition (act as Kill Teams, bodyguards or as warden on the Black Ships)
- Grenadiers, basically Storm Troopers light, much more numerous and are firmly integrated into their homeworld's regiments
- Kasrkin, officially Cadian Grenadiers, unknown number (but seems to be a lot more than the "real" ST regiment according to the 13th Black Crusade Force Composition Chart), similar to ISTs their training and equipment is said to be on par with IG ST

Of course, all of the above is only insofar GW is concerned (2E and 5E Guard Codices).

For reference, the Inquisitorial Stormtroopers are the top X% of the stormtrooper regiments.

I see, so the guard train them and the =I= pick up the best and train them harder?

TheAngrySquig wrote:I see, so the guard train them and the =I= pick up the best and train them harder?

That's the idea

On a related note, does Deathwatch give any additional training or does it just take already expert xeno killers?

Lynata wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:I thought Stormtroopers had Hot-shots?

They do - the two terms get used interchangeably. The 5E Codex flat-out uses both in the same wargear textbox. I suppose one could be the official term whereas the other is a nickname? Otherwise it's a mistake or a retcon, but I choose to go with the nickname.
It was never issued large scale to the Guard because the internal cooling mechanisms required to keep the weapon working are far more complex and maintenance-intensive than the sturdy lasgun, but for the more elite (and better-supported) Storm Troopers they're good.

Well it depends on the source. In Gaunt's Ghosts it seems that the hot shot is a lasgun loaded with special ammunition, and in some it seems to be a specialised lasgun variant, whereas the Hell Gun seems to be a weapon in and of itself.

Idk though, as with everything else, there is conflict between sources.

Plus I am no IG expert but I personally believe they are different.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TheAngrySquig wrote:On a related note, does Deathwatch give any additional training or does it just take already expert xeno killers?

Just takes the experts. That is why there are so many Crimson Fists (Ork Fighters) and Scythes of the Emperor (Tyranid Bio-Ship boarding specialists) among them.

And so few Squats?

The Squats are a) extinct and b) Not Space Marines. They wouldn't get to join the Deathwatch even if they were still alive.

TheAngrySquig wrote:I see, so the guard train them and the =I= pick up the best and train them harder?

Mhm, the Schola Progenium itself is an Ecclesiarchal institution. Studio material makes no mention of how deeply the Departmento Munitorum is involved with it, but I suppose it is likely that progena get drilled by Guard/ST veterans.

According to the 3E Witch Hunter Codex, however, the ISTs are not recruited out of the Imperial Guard's Storm Trooper regiment but rather from a common source - the Schola. If one would follow the wording exactly, the separation seems to come even before their actual "career" training begins, essentially making it a nigh-identical parallel program. However, sometimes the ranks of the ISTs are also joined by "outsiders" approved by the Inquisition due to a history of service in their bloodline:

"Recruited from the Schola Progenium and certain families with a tradition of service to the Inquisition, these Storm Troopers are equipped and trained in a similar fashion to the elite Storm Troopers of the Imperial Guard. Storm Troopers undertake rigorous purity and incorruptability tests before they are permitted to bear the Inquisitorial mark, making them preferable for use in Witch Hunter forces where the number of Adepta Sororitas available may be insufficient."

TheAngrySquig wrote:On a related note, does Deathwatch give any additional training or does it just take already expert xeno killers?

I'd suspect it is a bit of both. Deathwatch Marines are volunteers (and I think most Chapters would only send Battle Brothers they deem suitable out of Chapter-honour), yet they also receive additional training upon arrival.

"Deathwatch members are volunteers from Space Marine Chapters that rigidly adhere to the Codex Astartes. Because teams are made up of battle brothers from several Chapters, it is essential they follow a similar doctrine. On the Eastern Fringe of the Imperium, the Inquisitorial Fortress at Talasa Prime has recruited, trained, and equipped Kill Teams from the Ultramarines, Scythes of the Emperor, and Lamenters Chapters for service against the Tyranids."
- from the CA Deathwatch Kill-Team rules

im2randomghgh wrote:Idk though, as with everything else, there is conflict between sources.

Very much so - all of the above is only insofar GW is concerned.

I'm not trying to claim stuff about canonicity anymore, I'll simply post the stuff that studio material has established. Everyone can decide for himself if he wants to roll with that or if he prefers some outsourced/licensed product.

but I suppose it is likely that progena get drilled by Guard/ST veterans.

These men are called Drill Abbots, and I gather, from what FFG and BL fluff exists about them, that these men are IG veterans who later joined the Frateris Militia or another Ecclesiarchal body, or were selected straight out of the IG, as drill sergeants for the youth of the Schola Progena.

Their class lead-in text in FFG's Blood of Martyrs is hilarious.

So they are just like grimdark versions of R. Lee Ermy

Actually the Deathwatch DOES do specialized training. On top of taking only veterans.

So Veterans with special training and special equipment... LIKE A BOSS

Essentially, yeah. The Deathwatch rpg mentions that the recruits even at base xp level are veterans.

Is Deathwatch the game any good?