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odorofdeath wrote:Ahh, shucks. I'm just trying to help. Thanks.

140 seems perfect; definitely a viable alternative to Trygons, but not overpowering. By the way, I assume the 10 point increase on Trygons was for their ability to assault out of tunneling?

Right. Originally, I was going to suggest more for Subterranean Assault, but since only 1 unit can come out at a time, +10pts seems reasonable.

Great stuff so far guys, really coming together well I think!
Reviewing V1.2 a few things that caught my eye:

fixed Spore Mine Army List entry

Insert Fullstop!

“They're in the Walls!”: Genestealers are master
infiltrators, able to scale walls, crawl through air
ducts and leap through trees to reach their prey.
Genestealers have the Move Through Cover
universal special rule, and count as being armed
with assault grenades.

Are we being too generous here with Stealers? They are still only 16 points and were a formidable hth unit as they stood. I fully agree that they need some sort of frag grenade option bit is MTC pushing it too far? Just a thought

When a Pyrovore is killed, roll a D6. On a 4+, the
strike has caused the beast to explode. All models
within D3” of the slain Pyrovore suffer a Strength
4 AP- hit. Vehicles suffer a glancing hit on a 5+.

Im torn on this one. I can definetly see JY2s argument that its a tack on, them being able to glance vehicles. Something that maybe isnt required nor wanted.
However, breaking the rule down they still need a 4+ to hit said vehicle (a 50% chance only) and the radius could be a very measily 1" with a poor roll.
On balance, I'd leave it as is. It wont be game changing imho but still gives the Pyrovore a modicum of versatility albeit limited siuationally.
Im really liking the chained fire rule btw!

TRYGON
See Tyranids Codex, page 50, with amendment –
units may assault the turn they arrive from the
Trygon's tunnel.

Have we agreed to only one unit being allowd to assault after using the tunnel but multiples being allowed to use it in general?

Alien Cunning: Whilst the Swarmlord is alive, you may add +1 to any of your reserves rolls.

Has this been covered under the FAQ i.e if he is off the board himself it still confers?

Under the Mutations section I'd list all the mutations and their points cost. From a user friendly POV there is nothing worse then page hopping to find points/details. List them here in one central place and in the army list entries if then needed.

Crushing claws vs Sything tales
Both of these biomrphs cost 20 points on the Carnifex but why would you ever take STs over CCs?
Perhaps amend STs to 10 points?

-Inhuman Strength
(+1S) . . . . . . .15 points
-Reinforced Chitin
(+1S) . . . . . . .15 points

Change to +1T.

Still a little concerned over the cost of inhuman str and enhanced reflexes vs Adrenal glands. IS+ER cost 30 points but for 10 you can get AGs? Granted as mentioned before AGs are more situational but is te extra 20 points worth it? Hmmm, probably but worth highlighting I feel for some debate.

Has the Swarmlords points gone up to much? Hes now the most expensive charcter in the game? Rig can you mathhammer out some fights, him vs the Ctan, Draigo, Vect, Ghaz etc, the real hth guys currently and see if hes coming out ok? I accept fully his points represent him as a force multiplier rather then a solo hth monster but with a 3+ save hes still vulnerable to fire, 5 wounds with no regen and no inv and EW relying on a psychic test. Just some food for thought.

Tyrant Guard
Armoured shell . . . . . . . . . . .20 points per model

I'd reduce this to 15 a model allowing 3 for under 200 points. As it stands 3 at 20 points puts them over the 200 mark which with a full army list can lead to points problems later on.

Can we clarify what the 25 point difference between the Trv and Horagon is?
They seem identical to me bar STs on the Horm which the Terv can get for 5 himself. Did I miss something? Is it because one spawns terms ad the other horms?

PYROVORE BROOD 50pts per model
WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
3 3 4 4 2 1 1 6 4+

Amend his BS to 0? He will never have a need for it?

Termagunts
-Enhanced Senses
(+1BS) . . 3 points each
-Enhanced Reflexes

I feel this is too strong. Paying 3 points for a BS upgrade on models that can be spammed is too powerful.
Sure they are 8 points but you now have marine/eldar-esque accuracy on creatures that can still be buffed and are cheapish.
I'd lave them at BS3 with the other mutation options only.

Carnifexs BS got reduced? And he has no option for ESs? I'd at least give him the option so the dakkafex build become viable again, at BS2 hes somewhat lacking I feel.

Still not sure about the Warrior changes so will hopefully come back later on that!
Great work though guys

Just as a little FAQ:

Ratius wrote:

TRYGON
See Tyranids Codex, page 50, with amendment –
units may assault the turn they arrive from the
Trygon's tunnel.

Have we agreed to only one unit being allowd to assault after using the tunnel but multiples being allowed to use it in general?

In the rules for Subterranean Assault it says only 1 unit may come from the tunnel per turn, but now they can assault when they do so.

Ratius wrote:

Alien Cunning: Whilst the Swarmlord is alive, you may add +1 to any of your reserves rolls.

Has this been covered under the FAQ i.e if he is off the board himself it still confers?

As far as I'm concerned, he's still alive if he's off the board, and the reserves bonus is optional (you don't have to add the +1 if you don't want to).

Ratius wrote:Under the Mutations section I'd list all the mutations and their points cost. From a user friendly POV there is nothing worse then page hopping to find points/details. List them here in one central place and in the army list entries if then needed.

This is something I tried to do in v1.2 with the whole expanded Mutations section, but it was actually more confusing than the way it is now. I'd have to make a bunch of different charts because certain Tyranids can't take certain biomorphs, and the price of biomorphs varies wildly. In the end, I found it easier just to put them all together on the Army List entry.

Ratius wrote:Still a little concerned over the cost of inhuman str and enhanced reflexes vs Adrenal glands. IS+ER cost 30 points but for 10 you can get AGs? Granted as mentioned before AGs are more situational but is te extra 20 points worth it? Hmmm, probably but worth highlighting I feel for some debate.

Yes, but the thing is that you can take IS+ER and AG as well. And I guess it's up to the user to determine whether the extra 20 points is worth risking.

Ratius wrote:Can we clarify what the 25 point difference between the Trv and Horagon is?
They seem identical to me bar STs on the Horm which the Terv can get for 5 himself. Did I miss something? Is it because one spawns terms ad the other horms?

Yes, Hormagaunts are better than Termagaunts in general. They also can't use the Hormagon's AG/TS and don't get counter-attack, but they are also meant to charge forward instead.

Ratius wrote:

Termagunts
-Enhanced Senses
(+1BS) . . 3 points each
-Enhanced Reflexes

I feel this is too strong. Paying 3 points for a BS upgrade on models that can be spammed is too powerful.
Sure they are 8 points but you now have marine/eldar-esque accuracy on creatures that can still be buffed and are cheapish.
I'd lave them at BS3 with the other mutation options only.

Hmm I suppose, people could buy that an Devourers and have really potent shooting... then again, would they really be worth taking at 11pts per model? I'm just trying to give people flexibility I guess, but I can see the concern. I might make it a 4pt upgrade even.

Ratius wrote:Carnifexs BS got reduced? And he has no option for ESs? I'd at least give him the option so the dakkafex build become viable again, at BS2 hes somewhat lacking I feel.

Yeah sorry, that was a mistake.

Also, in the next update I'm going to add a units/weapon summary chart for quick and easy perusal!

Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Ratius wrote:

Termagunts
-Enhanced Senses
(+1BS) . . 3 points each
-Enhanced Reflexes

I feel this is too strong. Paying 3 points for a BS upgrade on models that can be spammed is too powerful.
Sure they are 8 points but you now have marine/eldar-esque accuracy on creatures that can still be buffed and are cheapish.
I'd lave them at BS3 with the other mutation options only.

Hmm I suppose, people could buy that an Devourers and have really potent shooting... then again, would they really be worth taking at 11pts per model? I'm just trying to give people flexibility I guess, but I can see the concern. I might make it a 4pt upgrade even.

People are perfectly willing to pay 10 points per model for BS3 devourers. 11 or 12 for BS4 devs? Bargain.

Yeah, I can already see the problems with the Termagaunts; maybe 14 or 15 is better. High enough that you'd really have to think about it, but still quite powerful.

And on the Hormagon: I feel it should get either a small price drop (5-10pts) or some sort of ability, because, as it is, I can't see a reason to take it over a Tervigon, especially when Horms and Terms are so similar in combat.

About the whole layout of the thing: I like the mutations and biomorphs listed in the army list fine. It's a bit annoying because I keep forgetting what Acid Blood does, but otherwise I think it keeps the armory section down to a reasonable size.

Yeah same here, but I never take Acid Blood so it isn't an issue


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I think I'll raise the cost of +1BS on Gaunts to 5 or 6 points then.

I've been thinking, for the Raveners, since everyone gives them Rending Claws anyway, why not just make them standard, and leave the price as-is? That plus the option for Toxin Sacs,m Adrenal Glands, etc., could work.

One more thing: I've been wondering how to represent different stage of a Tyranid invasion, and if it would be possible without being to imbalanced. I.e., stage one is Genestealer and Lictor infiltration (doable), then gak tons of Gargoyles and Gaunts (doable, though could be be better; maybe a way to swap Heavy slots for Troops/Fast Attack?), and then the heavies come out (same, but swapping Fast Attack or Elites for Heavy, this would be handled tastefully to prevent Nidzilla abuse a la 4th Edition), and the last stage is lots of Rippers, which suck and I don't think anyone cares to take more than 9 broods of them.

Thoughts? Is this even workable?

odorofdeath wrote:And on the Hormagon: I feel it should get either a small price drop (5-10pts) or some sort of ability, because, as it is, I can't see a reason to take it over a Tervigon, especially when Horms and Terms are so similar in combat.

I agree. Without it being able to transfer any of the abilities to the hormagants, it shouldn't be +25pts more than the tervigon. I'd drop it by 10pts to 175pts. I think that is a more appropriate price for it.

Also, while Onslaught is alright on the Tervigon, it doesn't really seem to fit for the Hormagon. After all, the hormagon is more of an assault-based force-multiplier than a shooty-based one. I'd recommend changing it to this, which I feel is more "fitting":

Furious Assault . . . . . +15pts
The hormagon may drive a tyranid unit mad with the need to feed.

The hormagon may give 1 friendly tyranid unit within 12" the Furious Charge USR.

Note - this way, the hormagon can still buff his hormagants with a power that may be more suited for its nature.

odorofdeath wrote:Yeah, I can already see the problems with the Termagaunts; maybe 14 or 15 is better. High enough that you'd really have to think about it, but still quite powerful.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:And I think I'll raise the cost of +1BS on Gaunts to 5 or 6 points then.

Don't do it. Now you're getting into MEQ territory here...without their stats!

Consider the 14pt BS4 devgaunt. 3 shots, 12" at BS4.

Now consider a 15pt grey hunter. BS4, 2 rapid-fire shots up to 24", and a sh*tload of better stats than the termagant, including WS4, S4, T4, 3+ save, grenades and counter-attack.

12pts is the most I'd charge for them. Remember, an optimal configuration is 20devgaunts in a spore. That's 250-270pts, and if you want synapse with that, that's another +25pts or so. Then next turn, they die (or gets reduced to where they can be ignored for the most part). Honestly, I'm even ok with 11pt BS4 devgaunts. The original devgaunt was overpriced anyways. But as some people are complaining about them currently, charge +4pts for BS4.

18", not 12. And I wasn't complaining, just noting that if people don't really hesitate right now at 10 points, they won't at 11 for +1 BS.

And Grey Hunters are too cheap (imo)

rigeld2 wrote:18", not 12. And I wasn't complaining, just noting that if people don't really hesitate right now at 10 points, they won't at 11 for +1 BS.

My bad.

While some people would pay a premium for them, I hesitate to buy devgaunts at 10pts per. Then again, it is because I feel that they not efficient enough for the price. I think 12pt BS4 devgaunts are reasonable. Anymore and they are overcosted IMO.

And Grey Hunters are too cheap (imo)

Even if I was to compare them to a 16pt tact squad, the tact squad would outclass them in every way. With the exception of counter-attack, everything I said above applies to the tact squad versus a 14pt BS4 devgaunt.

jy2 wrote:Even if I was to compare them to a 16pt tact squad, the tact squad would outclass them in every way. With the exception of counter-attack, everything I said above applies to the tact squad versus a 14pt BS4 devgaunt.

... I was thinking they were 18. I bow to your analysis.

why is the hive tyrant WS 8?

I like the return of the customofex though

Ratius wrote:Crushing claws vs Sything tales
Both of these biomrphs cost 20 points on the Carnifex but why would you ever take STs over CCs?
Perhaps amend STs to 10 points?

I did not see that claws on carnies got reduced to +20pts. Since the OP has taken out the strike at I1, I think it definitely needs to stay at +25pts. IMO, the mace tail needs to be cheaper than the scythe tail which needs to be cheaper than crusher claws. I would go like this:

Mace Tail +15pts
Scythe Tail +20pts
Crushing Claws +25pts

Ratius wrote:Has the Swarmlords points gone up to much? Hes now the most expensive charcter in the game? Rig can you mathhammer out some fights, him vs the Ctan, Draigo, Vect, Ghaz etc, the real hth guys currently and see if hes coming out ok? I accept fully his points represent him as a force multiplier rather then a solo hth monster but with a 3+ save hes still vulnerable to fire, 5 wounds with no regen and no inv and EW relying on a psychic test. Just some food for thought.

Only Fateweaver and the older Necron C'tans cost more. The newly updated Swarmlord is a beast. He is worth every single point of his new, increased cost. He's now got 18" Shadows, 5++ permanent Inv save and the ability to give one unit, including his own deathstar unit, Eternal Warrior. With EW, he's just become probably the single most deadly cc-unit in the game. But what's more dangerous than that is that he is an awesome force-multiplier - giving 18" synapse and anti-psyker defense, modifying reserves and giving special abilities to units as well as drawing a lot of fire.

I actually play-tested the new Swarmlord. He was able to single-handedly wipe out an entire unit of paladins (after I shot them up first, that is)! And that's with charging him in without a tyrant guard, who had already died.

Now imagine giving him 3 T6 2W tyrant guards with 2+ saves! This unit won't die anytime soon, now with cover, EW and FNP.

Ratius wrote:

Tyrant Guard
Armoured shell . . . . . . . . . . .20 points per model

I'd reduce this to 15 a model allowing 3 for under 200 points. As it stands 3 at 20 points puts them over the 200 mark which with a full army list can lead to points problems later on.

I wouldn't. T6 2W bodyguards with 2+ and cover is really, really strong and worth every point. I'd leave them (armoured shell) at that price (20pts). Honestly, I wouldn't even give the guards an option to get 2+ saves, but if the OP wants to do it, 20pts is fair.

Not to be a negative nancy on the bug parade, however, being an outside looking in;

Giving Eternal Warrior as a psychic power to negate Grey Knights special bits makes it a real drag for those armies without Force Weapons. It's hard enough to kill Warriors as Tau with no ranged Str 8 weapons and them getting a +4 Cover from Gaunts, but to give them rounds of Eternal Warrior too?

Besides Grey Knights, 'Nid players would just abuse Hive Will to make their Warriors have EW through the entire game, because, lets face it, T6 Monstrous Creatures need not fear Instant Death outside of a force weapon.

It would be a great psychic power against Grey Knights, but all the other armies would struggle against T4 W3 Eternal Warrior Warriors...

StormForged wrote: It's hard enough to kill Warriors as Tau with no ranged Str 8 weapons and them getting a +4 Cover from Gaunts, but to give them rounds of Eternal Warrior too?

Those Str10 guns have an easy enough time IDing my Warriors. Even with a cover save (which markerlights remove) I was losing models. The only reason any stayed alive was because I hid them out of LOS.

@StormForged:

It's not just the grey knights. There's just too many weapons out there that can ID warriors. Besides force weapons, the current trend is S8-spam....missile launchers, meltaguns, psyfleman dreads, lance weaponry, leman russ blasts, power fists, even other hive guards. The tyranid warrior unit is not a cheap unit. They can cost up to 50pts each for a decently equipped model. The current problem is that many tyranid players are discouraged from using warriors just because they are expensive and too easily killed by most armies (with the exception of Tau).

Also, Hive Will doesn't come cheap. In an army with warriors, you would normally want to take Tyranid Primes. However, to get Hive Will, you need to take a Tyrant as well (not that he is a bad unit). Thus, now you've probably spent at least 300-400pts on your HQ. In addition, you need to spend a good chunk of points on your tyranid warriors (if it's important enough for you to cast Hive Will on them, then most likely its an expensive squad). You just won't have much left for support units.

BTW, not sure if you're aware, but last edition nids (4th edition) all had Eternal Warrior while in Synapse. Yes, I'm talking about the whole army. So just giving 1 unit EW when most codices already have EW units is not really that bad at all.

Agreed, and if you're worried about Hive Will then just kill the Tyrant, or nullify his psychic power, or just use AP3/4+ weapons to kill the Warriors. The Tyrant might fail his psychic test too and suffer perils. It's not a sure thing of course, but it helps a lot.

Also, I knew the Swarmlord was a beast, but he's a 1-man (monster?) deathstar? Wow, cool, brings Nidzilla back to the fore I guess.

In my battle (report will be coming out probably this weekend), he charged a unit of paladins (weakened somewhat by shooting, I think they had 7 or 8 guys left from a squad of 10). The squad had no banner, 1 warding stave, 1 hammer and a mix of swords and halberds. No IC's attached.

Swarmy paroxsyzes the unit reducing them to WS1. He then gives himself Preferred Enemy and Eternal Warrior (BTW, I believe librarian was already killed off).

Despite Shadows, paladins get off Hammerhand for S5. Swarmy actually had to charge through terrain so was striking at I1, but because knights were hitting on 5's and wounding on 5's and because Swarmy has a 4++, I think he only takes 1W.

He then strikes back, re-rolling to hit and wounding on 2's, and causes 3 wounds. Stave successfully saves, but because the target is forced to re-roll successful Invulns, 2 paladins die. They pass leadership.

Next assault phase, Swarmy is striking simul with halberds. I believe this time, paladins fail to cast hammerhand and so are hitting on 4's and wounding on 6's. Swarmy no longer has Preferred Enemy but no matter, he takes 1 more wound but kills another 2 paladins, including the warding stave, I believe. Swarmy is down to 1 wound. Paladins still pass Morale despite -2/-3 penalty.

Last assault phase, 3 paladins left. halberds wound twice on 6's and kills Swarmy. However, before he dies, he hits and wounds all 3 of them. With the forced re-roll, he kills off the squad as well.

So Swarmy, without a tyrant guard and with only 3W left, takes about 500pts of paladins. That's impressive. That's a monster.


BTW, my list had Swarmy, 1 tervigon and 8 dakkafexes at 2.5K (plus some shooty support units including the new pyrovores). Fought againsts Draigo, librarian, 20 paladins, 1 vendread and 2 flying dreadknights.

sooooo, why does the hive tyrant have WS 8?

there are some good things in the dex i like, just that one kind of made me go???

I believe that's what it came with originally - WS8. I don't think that's changed but don't have the codex with me currently.

Ratius wrote:

“They're in the Walls!”: Genestealers are master
infiltrators, able to scale walls, crawl through air
ducts and leap through trees to reach their prey.
Genestealers have the Move Through Cover
universal special rule, and count as being armed
with assault grenades.

Are we being too generous here with Stealers? They are still only 16 points and were a formidable hth unit as they stood. I fully agree that they need some sort of frag grenade option bit is MTC pushing it too far? Just a thought

Genestealers already come with MTC in the normal codex, so all he is gaining is Frag Grenades, at +2pts. They definatly should have MTC.

Yup, Tyrants have WS8 in the Codex, I didn't change that. In fact, for most units their stats are pretty much identical to the Codex, the only real changes were for overhauled creatures and ones with mutations for the most part. And seemingly redundant sections (like cover saves against close combat abilities) are right from the Codex so that's not my fault.

And I just folded MTC and Frag Grenades into "They're in the Walls!" for simplicity's sake, but I think in the next version of the Dex I'm going to just make it an optional Frag Grenade equivalent and give them back MTC as a basic ability.

Also, sounds like the improvements made to the Swarmlord didn't affect the outcome of that fight too much (EW gave him a bit more security and Warp Shield might have prevented earlier shooting wounds... obviously I don't know though). He's always been an extremely expensive investment, but can pull his weight and then some.

After looking at jy2's reasoning, I gotta agree with him about the Termies.

Sorry to bug you all, but I'm just wondering if anyone has given any thought to the Raveners being given the option to take biomorphs? I feel like they just need a little "oomph" to be truly effective CC units.

Finally, has anyone given any thought to the "invasion" FOC swapping?

odorofdeath wrote:After looking at jy2's reasoning, I gotta agree with him about the Termies.

Sorry to bug you all, but I'm just wondering if anyone has given any thought to the Raveners being given the option to take biomorphs? I feel like they just need a little "oomph" to be truly effective CC units.

Finally, has anyone given any thought to the "invasion" FOC swapping?

Yeah, they should have a couple more options. Any suggestions?

And I'm not sure how the invasion FOC swapping would work. I think it would be simpler just to let the players fiddle with that, or build a list around a certain "time-frame" of the Tyranid invasion.

My recommendations for ravener biomorphs (quoted from p.4):

jy2 wrote:
Raveners: Good. Consider giving them mutations as well and an option for some type of assault grenades (frag spines or whatever you would like to call it). My recommendations:

Frag Spines (or similar) . . . . . +5pts each
Enhanced Reflexes . . . . . +8pts each
Inhuman Strength . . . . . +8pts each
Reinforced Carapace . . . . . +10pts each

I was thinking more like:

Adrenal Glands - +6pts each
Toxin Sacs - +6pts each

This would put Ravs with Rending, Scy Tals, and Toxin at a hefty 41 points a model. Personally, I think Ravs are alredy overcosted, but I think something like this is a step in the right direction.


As to the FOC swapping, admittedly I didn't flesh it out much; it was more just an idea that stuck in my head afer remembering the Iron Warriors and Night Lords in the old Chaos dex

Well if a couple of us are willing to brainstorm some ideas to make it work, then we can try I suppose.

I must second the notion that there should be some way of producing hormagants. If you did not want to go with the most logical route and just give the Tervigon a upgrade option equivalent to the point difference of a term and horm (i.e. 20% more) so 30-35 points for the upgrade to make it a Tervigon in all respects (including possible upgrades) except it spawns Horms. This is just the easiest route in terms of the least amount of play-testing needed.

There is also of course the possibility of using something to the effect of Without Number in the previous codex, with the exception that the respawned Hormagants come in via Outflank. Unfortunately in the current KP system not being able to actually amass bugs beyond what you started with just leads to ensuring your opponents victory, and as such I feel a Horvigon is the only logical solution.

Anyways just my thoughts, cheers.

Well if a couple of us are willing to brainstorm some ideas to make it work, then we can try I suppose.

I'm just going to post some initial ideas I had, and if you want you guys can feel free to chime in.

Instead of "waves" or "stages" of a Tyranid invasion, how about the ability to make certain types of swarms, i.e., Amored Company for IG. Examples:

Infiltration Swarm - Lictor Broods and Genestealer Broods are 1+. Lictors and Raveners can be taken as Troops or Elites for the cost of an additional slot.

Siege-Crusher Swarm - Carnifex Broods are 1+. Carnifexes, Trygons, Mawlocs, and Tyrannofexes may be taken as Fast Attack or Elites for the cost of an additional slot.

the Horde - Ripper Broods are 2+. Ripper Broods, Sky-Slasher Broods, Terma- and HormaGaunts, Gargoyles, and Tervigons, and Hormagons may be taken as Heavy Support at the cost of an additional slot.

Honestly, I'm just spitballing here. Criticisms and suggestions would be welcomed.

EDIT: Andilus, the Word version of the 'dex includes the following for Raveners:

28pts base, AG/TS are +4pts, Rending Claws are +5. So a Rav with Scything Talons, Rending Claws, and Toxin Sacs is 37pts, which I feel is perfect. Still pricey, but I wouldn't be afraid to jump them on some Marines now.

As for Carnifexes: I'm loving them at 140pts base. Can we agree on that as the new standard base cost for them?

odorofdeath wrote:

Well if a couple of us are willing to brainstorm some ideas to make it work, then we can try I suppose.

I'm just going to post some initial ideas I had, and if you want you guys can feel free to chime in.

Instead of "waves" or "stages" of a Tyranid invasion, how about the ability to make certain types of swarms, i.e., Amored Company for IG. Examples:

Infiltration Swarm - Lictor Broods and Genestealer Broods are 1+. Lictors and Raveners can be taken as Troops or Elites for the cost of an additional slot.

Siege-Crusher Swarm - Carnifex Broods are 1+. Carnifexes, Trygons, Mawlocs, and Tyrannofexes may be taken as Fast Attack or Elites for the cost of an additional slot.

the Horde - Ripper Broods are 2+. Ripper Broods, Sky-Slasher Broods, Terma- and HormaGaunts, Gargoyles, and Tervigons, and Hormagons may be taken as Heavy Support at the cost of an additional slot.

Honestly, I'm just spitballing here. Criticisms and suggestions would be welcomed.

Maybe we can add it as a scenario special ruleset or something, included in the Dex. Like, if you and your opponent agree then you may use a tiered Tyranid invasion scenario. Based on the stage of the invasion, certain units will be more common than others.

That said, it still seems more like the type of thing I'd leave to individuals to work out for campaigns, scenarios, etc.

odorofdeath wrote:EDIT: Andilus, the Word version of the 'dex includes the following for Raveners:

28pts base, AG/TS are +4pts, Rending Claws are +5. So a Rav with Scything Talons, Rending Claws, and Toxin Sacs is 37pts, which I feel is perfect. Still pricey, but I wouldn't be afraid to jump them on some Marines now.

Yup, well you got a preview of a couple of the changes I made for v1.3 Still changing it up based on suggestions though.

odorofdeath wrote:As for Carnifexes: I'm loving them at 140pts base. Can we agree on that as the new standard base cost for them?

Agreed, it's much more fair.