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Hate to be a party pooper, but I don't know about the flyrant/gargoyle scoring idea. It just seems like another band-aid job. "Oh, I love gargoyles. If only they were scoring....I know! I'll let the flyrant make them a scoring unit." It just feels to me like you're trying to make the unnatural natural. To me, they just don't fit. What is it about the flyrant that let's him make gargoyles scoring? Why not let him make shrikes scoring? Or how about a monstrous creature scoring since the tyrant itself is a monstrous creature? To me, it's hard to justify why this relationship should be. It's like saying "Hey, assault terminators are awesome. How about we make 1 of them scoring if you take a terminator librarian with storm shields and Nullzone. Awesome!" Besides the fact that they have similar wargear (or biomorph in the case of the tyrant-gargoyle), it just doesn't connect.

I recommend that if you want to have scoring gargoyles, you make up a special character. Characters are always exceptions to the norm, as their fluff can be used to justify why such and such a unit is this way in relation to the character. Here's some examples of what I think would make sense:

- The Parasite of Mortrex lets 1 unit of sky-slasher or ripper swarms to count as a scoring unit. This could be easily justifiable.

- A winged Tyranid Prime lets you take 1 unit of shrikes as a troop choice. Again, this could be justifiable.

I was thinking sort of like the Space Marine Bike Captains. Although the Parasite suggestion makes sense as well.

Admittedly it was just a thought. I see how it seems sloppy so I don't mind not having it implemented

But I don't see how its a "band aid" job when SM get to do the same thing with a biker boss. Same with Orks, BA, SW, etc. So there is a precedent.

Are you more worried that its bad design or its a bad idea?

As to a SC, I hadn't thought of that. Personally I rather like having vanilla Has unlocking FOCUS swaps as opposed to characters, but that's a fine idea. I've never even looked at the parasite, honestly. The Prime thing is also cool, that might be doable as well.

The Prime one is probably more fair overall... Gargoyles are cheap, in part because they aren't Troops.

True dat. No biggie.

Any other nagging problems people are having?

Not really, I'm pretty pleased with the Fandex, all it really needs now is some playtesting to ensure that it is balanced.

I think you should leave it with Tervigons and Hormagons. Most other armies have only 1 or 2 things like that. SM have Biker Captains/Bikes, Loganwing Wolf Guard, Nipplewing, Deff Dread/Meks, GK being the exception with 3 (Draigowing, Purewing, my name for Purifier Crowe Spam, and Coteaz Henchman.)

My final suggestion would be to drop the Hormagon's price by 10 points. Without the ability to pass on TS/AG to them, coupled with Hormagaunts' one-dimensional-ness, I really can't see myself ever taking them, as Termagaunts are better in CC with the Tervigon's boosts, and they can shoot.

Ok done, and v1.4 is now up!

Excellent job people.

*pats back*

Woo party time.

*Cue confetti*

So... like... when do we get a real new codex? :p

I'm going to try and get my buddies to let me use this one a few times

Yeah, I hope that Tyranids get a 6th Ed Codex, they seem to get a new one every edition (like Space Marines), so it wouldn't be a stretch.

TBH I was expecting them to do this with the codex soon as I knew plastic gargoyles were coming out.

Well, a winged tyrant allows it to keep up with the other winged creatures in the army; shrikes and gargoyles. This creates a sense of unity in the force, the idea they're part of one force and a larger brood built for a specific objective. Fluff wise that might be flying over defences without compromising synapse ie Forgeworld book. Or launching a planetary invasion, the first strike isoften described as having gargoyles in the vanguard and would have to have some synapse leaders ingrained in order for the army to function and act in strategic cohesion. Flying tyrants deploying with shrikes in the army thus make a lot of sense and the winged tyrants make gargoyles troops is a good way of representing this type of army.

Another good example to space marine captains is that the Dark Eldar get wracks as troops instead of elites if they include a regular haemonculus. This represents the player shifting the focus of their army to a coven army. A regular HQ without a special character drasticly alters the FOC.

It also fits with the old 4th edition army types that you could do (and still can to some extent in 5th for fun) have balanced, little guys (broodlord n gaunts), medium guys (warriors and ravenors) and nidzilla. Obviously a balanced army is more tactical but most codexs are clear that you have the otpion of taking thematic armies. A winged army is one such type and fits with the whole insect theme as they become a horde of locusts. To go back to dark eldar, I know that to take an all wych army without ravagers or warriors would probably make the army unbalanced but I still have the option of doing this for thematic reasons.

Also, a scoring unit that risks hurting itself by holding objectives in cover? Thats quite a considerable weakness of the army and any winged build would chiefly be one built for a rapid assault and to destroy the opponent.

I totally agree, but I think the idea has been pretty much voted down. As much as I like gargoyles, i think FA is where they ultimately belong.

In regards to playtesting, today I played my first game against the new necron codex with a reserve hammer style list and won. My opponent was a little uneasy about the Trygons being able to assault out of DS, as I destroyed a monolith and severely crippled another in 1 turn. Otherwise everything felt pretty good... although I think devilgaunts are 1-2 points overcosted.

Otherwise, it was a great game and im going to continue trying this reserve style list.

One last thing

Ok, ill be honest here: I don't like hormagons and think they honestly kind of stink. Maybe someone uses them more and can chime in, but I think the hormagon should be the same price as the tervigon and should pass on its AG/TS to its babies... as it is now, I have no incentive to use them. Thoughts?

Finally, I think mycetic spores should be allowed to carry 2 carnifexes at once to incentivize me into taking them.... since trygons assault out of DS theyre extremely hard to pass up. Eh? Too op? Cause I love me some carnifex

One last thing... rippers have an option called "tunnel swarm" but I can't seem to find any mention of it in the wargear area... what does it do?

Eh, you played it wrong with the Trygon. The trygon can't assault on the turn it comes in. It's the gribblies that uses its trygon hole to come in from that can assault.

Congrats on a fine job, Andilus. All that is needed is some play-testing and feedback data.

Tunnel Swarm lets the ripper deepstrike. Otherwise, it can't do that.

Tunnel swarms is in the 5th Ed Rulebook.

And I think I'm not going to do the Gargoyles as Troops thing because part of the reason they're so nicely discounted is because they aren't scoring units. If they were then they'd probably be another point at least.

We'll see about the Hormagon. I want to get some play-testing in before I consider making another version of the Codex.

And jy2 is right, the Trygon can't assault when it comes in, but the 1 unit coming out of the tunnel per turn can.

Oh.. derp. Damn. So why is it so pricey? Because other stuff can assault from the hole? Huh....

Love the amount of passion and work you put into this, but to me I was instantly turned off by the return of customizable stat-lines.

While I know there is a very 'nid' feeling about adjusting characteristics, the big issue with that mechanic always was that your opponent had to constantly try to remember which units had what stats, and it was especially bad because whatever fluff representations they used to describe these upgrades, people rarely actually put them on their models.

So the net result was a situation where it was very frustrating for Tyranid opponents to try to keep track of how X unit stacks up against Y unit, even though they're both Tyranid Warriors, for example.

Say what you will about the power level of the published codex, simplicity is a really important goal to aim for and often one that is sadly abandoned when worked on at a 'fan' level of production.

That's true, but honestly most of the mutations are garbage and not worth it. Enhanced senses is the only one I've considered using, and only on 3 units.

In the end, I think they could easily be removed without anyone crying, but they simply aren't as useful as before. In my experience anyway.

Anyone else have any opinions on mutations? As I said, I feel they're mostly overcosted and thus mostly unused, but maybe thats a good thing.

Silly old real life getting in the way.

Really great work guys, most certainly nearly there I think.

Comments on 1.4

Harpy may move up 24” and drop Spore Mines on
any enemy unit within that it passes over.

Change to:
Harpy may move up 24” and drop Spore Mines on
any enemy unit within range that it passes over.

The Harpy may not shoot after this special move,
but counts as moving Flat-Out as if it were a
Skimmer.

Reading this to me it sort of implies a 3+ save for moving flat out. Is that intended? If not then take it out, I think its superfluous. Not being able to shoot is ample clarification.

The Swarmlord has a
synapse and Shadow in the Warp range of 18

For clarity change to
The Swarmlord is a Synapse Creature with a Sitw range of 18". "Synapse" by itself could be confusing.

Old one eye

He not roll to regenerate more
wounds this turn.

Change to:
He cannot roll to regenerate more
wounds this turn.

Impaler Cannon: The impaler cannon fires large
solid spines which are designed to penetrate the
armour on a battle tank

This one was mine but I'd change it again to:
Impaler Cannon: The impaler cannon fires large
solid spines which are designed to penetrate the
armour of a battle tank

Regenration:

In the next
Tyranid Movement phase roll a D6 – on a 6, it
stands back up with 1 wound remaining.

Can you revive and regen in the same turn? I assume not. If so put in a line similar to OOOs re: cant revive and regen in same turn.

Spore Cysts

After this, roll a D6 – on a 1, the model
which spawned the Mine takes a wound with no
armour saves allowed.

Again, can cover saves be taken here if in area terrain etc?

Toxic Miasma: Some Tyranids have exhaust
vents on their back, which billow with poisonous
fumes which choke nearby enemies.

Change to:
Toxic Miasma: Some Tyranids have exhaust
vents on their back, which billow with poisonous
fumes choking nearby enemies.

Tusks:

It isn't uncommon for the larger Tyranid
creatures' maws to sprout large tusks which they
impale their victims with when they charge.

Change to:
It isn't uncommon for the larger Tyranid
creatures' maws to sprout large tusks, which they
impale their victims with as they charge.

Under the army list entries some of the Options have " : " after them, others dont, for consistency go with one or the other. I'd leave them out

Would we consider giving Hive Guard a mycetic spore option for mobility?

I still have real problems with the Tyranid Warrior options and choices.
For 55 points you can get a T5, 3+, 5++ model with syanpse, hitting meqs on 3s wounding on 4s with rerolls and a not too shabby shooting attack. In addition to being a scoring unit with 3Ws each. Thats before you even start upgrading their weapon options or taking into account having psychic powers cast on them. I think simply it is too strong. As I said we must take them in the context of other codex troop choices and what they can field. They are not supposed to be matched up vs elites or bodyguard units etc.
I would leave them with the +1 T option only.

Great work though guys overall!

Ratius wrote:Reading this to me it sort of implies a 3+ save for moving flat out. Is that intended? If not then take it out, I think its superfluous. Not being able to shoot is ample clarification.

Yes, they get the 3+ cover save, makes them a little less fragile.

Ratius wrote:Spore Cysts

After this, roll a D6 – on a 1, the model
which spawned the Mine takes a wound with no
armour saves allowed.

Again, can cover saves be taken here if in area terrain etc?

Come to think of it, I removed the option to take Spore Cysts, so that section's now redundant. I'll remove it.

Ratius wrote:Would we consider giving Hive Guard a mycetic spore option for mobility?

They probably don't need it, the longer range on the gun should compensate.

Ratius wrote:I still have real problems with the Tyranid Warrior options and choices.
For 55 points you can get a T5, 3+, 5++ model with syanpse, hitting meqs on 3s wounding on 4s with rerolls and a not too shabby shooting attack. In addition to being a scoring unit with 3Ws each. Thats before you even start upgrading their weapon options or taking into account having psychic powers cast on them. I think simply it is too strong. As I said we must take them in the context of other codex troop choices and what they can field. They are not supposed to be matched up vs elites or bodyguard units etc.
I would leave them with the +1 T option only.

Great work though guys overall!

If I come out with a v1.5 after play-testing, I might drop the mutations section if it proves to be too imbalanced. We'll see.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Ratius wrote:Reading this to me it sort of implies a 3+ save for moving flat out. Is that intended? If not then take it out, I think its superfluous. Not being able to shoot is ample clarification.

Yes, they get the 3+ cover save, makes them a little less fragile.

4+

Deadshot wrote:

Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Ratius wrote:Reading this to me it sort of implies a 3+ save for moving flat out. Is that intended? If not then take it out, I think its superfluous. Not being able to shoot is ample clarification.

Yes, they get the 3+ cover save, makes them a little less fragile.

4+

Sorry yes, 4+, I get Flat-out and turbo-boosters mixed up (good thing I don't run Land Speeders in my armies haha).

A lot of people seem to do so.

So whats the story now AG?
Should we just playtest as much as we can and work on a 1.5 if things need changes?
Played any games yourself? How did they go?

I suspect with the new necrons, a lot of things have been put "on hold" as attentions have been deflected. I myself have been guilty of this.

Ratius wrote:So whats the story now AG?
Should we just playtest as much as we can and work on a 1.5 if things need changes?
Played any games yourself? How did they go?

I haven't yet, unfortunately... most of my gaming-friends are off to school until mid-December, so I'm hoping to playtest by then. I'm holding off on v1.5 until we get some testing in.

jy2 wrote:I suspect with the new necrons, a lot of things have been put "on hold" as attentions have been deflected. I myself have been guilty of this.

Yeah no worries, I hope to get a game in soon. I also want to fight some Necrons, but none have shown up at the local GW when I've been there sadly. I'm also gearing up for a tournament with my Space Wolves so that's been occupying my attention at the moment as well. However, I will use the fandex within a month's time!

Honestly, I think the codex is pretty good. I've played about 4 games with the fandex and it seems pretty good at this point.

odorofdeath wrote:Honestly, I think the codex is pretty good. I've played about 4 games with the fandex and it seems pretty good at this point.