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Not a massive douche... just a regular one that was put in control of an army of superhumans. And his only representation in the Heresy series is the book where he decided that hearing voices coming from a sword and a painting is totally ok.

Durza wrote:Not a massive douche... just a regular one that was put in control of an army of superhumans. And his only representation in the Heresy series is the book where he decided that hearing voices coming from a sword and a painting is totally ok.

Only he was a douche before he ever picked up the Laer sword, honestly.

Ferrus, he rejected the whole Heresy outright, no consideration, not sparing a seconds thought and had no compunction telling the man in the universe he most admired to GTFO. A true believer in Loyalty, Loyalty to the bitter end. He was utterly fearless, smashing into 3 Legions on his own and when Betrayed rather than surrender or retreat like the other 2 Legions committed fully to Assaulting the Heretics. He was killed, but he embodied everything of "Hector" from the Illiyad.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Durza wrote:Not a massive douche... just a regular one that was put in control of an army of superhumans. And his only representation in the Heresy series is the book where he decided that hearing voices coming from a sword and a painting is totally ok.

Only he was a douche before he ever picked up the Laer sword, honestly.

Yeah, but at least then he was a likeable douche. 'Oh, you're crafting a weapon and have been training as a blacksmith for years? Well then, I'd better make a better one!'

mwnciboo wrote:Ferrus, he rejected the whole Heresy outright, no consideration, not sparing a seconds thought and had no compunction telling the man in the universe he most admired to GTFO. A true believer in Loyalty, Loyalty to the bitter end. He was utterly fearless, smashing into 3 Legions on his own and when Betrayed rather than surrender or retreat like the other 2 Legions committed fully to Assaulting the Heretics. He was killed, but he embodied everything of "Hector" from the Illiyad.

Belied strongly by stubbornness. Ferrus is a manly man, his fists are made of metal and can make metal explode just by touching it. He's the possibly the strongest Priamrch physically, but he's stubborn. He's not a thinker, or philosopher, the very question of betrayal was ludicrous. It's his greatest strength, and his greatest weakness. Like a boulder rolling down a hill, you can think your way past and move, or stay and try to stop it.

Horus as he had the greatest legion and was closest to the Emperor ^.^ also he can kick two feths of crap out of the other primarchs, apart from Sanguinius and Angron and maybe Leman Russ or Magnus, they would have had a close fight. HOOOOOORUS!

The inclusion of Russ being a case of personal opinion, of course.

iproxtaco wrote:The inclusion of Russ being a case of personal opinion, of course.

Maybe... Did my name give it away?
No its just because Magnus was kickass and Russ beat him, must be on par

Id vote for Count Prettyboy (Fulgrim)

Wait Iproxtaco I just read your post on General Discussion, I now understand about the whole Prospero thing
Horus still my favourite, he would not have struggled to kill russ

Although Russ may or may not have killed two Primarches. Which may or may not tie him for most all time Primarch kills with Fulgrim. The Primarches are mostly all equal with their own specialties. They all get beat by extenuating circumstances pretty much.

The Son Of Russ wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:The inclusion of Russ being a case of personal opinion, of course.

Maybe... Did my name give it away?
No its just because Magnus was kickass and Russ beat him, must be on par

Hur, that tongue in my cheek. In all seriousness, there's gap between how good the Primarchs are. We have a statement from Corax saying only Horus and perhaps Sanguinus could best Angron, we know the Lion is equal to Russ, that Ferrus and Fulgrim are also equal, that Curze could beat the Lion and Dorn and that Vulkan and Ferrus are the most physically strong Primarchs. And we know Lorgar is a powerful psyker that at hadn't really harnessed his potential at any point that could rate him next to the others. If you were to put them all in a big battle royale, the top five left at the end would likely be Horus, Angron, Sanguinus, Magnus and porbably either Curze or the two physically strongest.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrainDeleted wrote:Although Russ may or may not have killed two Primarches. Which may or may not tie him for most all time Primarch kills with Fulgrim. The Primarches are mostly all equal with their own specialties. They all get beat by extenuating circumstances pretty much.

He bested one that wasn't paying full attention due to luck, and there's absolutely no evidence to suggest he killed another.

I think that in general battles between Primarchs can't be thought of in A>B>C terms, and context should be considered.

For instance, Curze did beat the Lion, when the fight became a brawl. Using his sword against Curze's lightning claws though, the Lion wasn't just beating Curze, he was completely dominating him.

Also consider that when Curze took out Dorn, not only was Dorn taken down by a sneak attack IIRC, but Dorn wasn't armed or armoured, wearing robes and gak.

Similarly, Russ and the Lion were shown to basically be equals, when fighting bare-handed. So we can confidently say that Curze would be better than both in a brawl. But with weapons? As we saw with the Lion, no, and with Russ we can't really say.

Though, we can roughly rank them. For instance, Angron, Sanguinius, and Horus seem to be considered the best in martial combat, if Corax's word means anything. Whereas Magnus the Red, while also being physically strong and a capable fighter, bolsters that with immense psychic power and finesse.

But Ive gone off-topic. Yeah, Ferrus Manus is a manly man who is a man, not exactly stupid, but stubborn and completely headstrong. He also shared another trait with Fulgrim, perfectionism. But while Fulgrim was a sissy girl and couldn't handle criticism, Ferrus Manus viewed criticism as vital, if you point out the flaws, then you can work to improve upon them.

Just another note on why Ferrus is a boss.

That's kind of what I meant, but didn't put it across very well. Rough rankings can be given if there was some huge hypothetical battle between them all, but generalized against one another they all appear roughly equal aside from Horus, who was just good at everything. Some people say he was average at everything, but he's the best Primarch, not the average Primarch. He was extremely good in a fight, a highly capable commander, an unparalleled politician. Each Primarch had that one thing they were excellent at, and average at most other things, Horus was good at them all, he is the best Primarch hands down. But I digress, this is about personal preference more than anything else.

iproxtaco wrote:That's kind of what I meant, but didn't put it across very well. Rough rankings can be given if there was some huge hypothetical battle between them all, but generalized against one another they all appear roughly equal aside from Horus, who was just good at everything. Some people say he was average at everything, but he's the best Primarch, not the average Primarch. He was extremely good in a fight, a highly capable commander, an unparalleled politician. Each Primarch had that one thing they were excellent at, and average at most other things, Horus was good at them all, he is the best Primarch hands down. But I digress, this is about personal preference more than anything else.

Horus didn't appear to be much of an active psyker. Or an active psyker at all, really.

Though yes, overall Horus was the most capable Primarch.

Dorn all the way

iproxtaco wrote:He bested one that wasn't paying full attention due to luck, and there's absolutely no evidence to suggest he killed another.

Ignoring the suggestions that Russ and the Wolves were the ones responsible for disposing of the two missing Primarches, yes, there's no evidence to suggest that at all. Besides, I didn't say he did do it or that he's the best Primarch. I was just putting it out there as food for thought.

Void__Dragon wrote:Yeah, Ferrus Manus is a manly man who is a man, not exactly stupid, but stubborn and completely headstrong. He also shared another trait with Fulgrim, perfectionism. But while Fulgrim was a sissy girl and couldn't handle criticism, Ferrus Manus viewed criticism as vital, if you point out the flaws, then you can work to improve upon them.

Really good way to put it, also a good insight into why the two of them were best buds pre-heresy...In a sort of weird way. He's totally one of my favorite out of them! It's one of the reasons I hate Fulgrim so much other than him killing Ferrus, they're like two sides of a coin.

Void__Dragon wrote:Horus didn't appear to be much of an active psyker. Or an active psyker at all, really.

Though yes, overall Horus was the most capable Primarch.

Until he was infused with the powers of Chaos. He was then an extremely capable psyker almost on par with the Emp himself. Didn't he kill a Custode/Space Marine/Ollanius Pius in the most painful way possible with but a glance during their fight and that's when the Big E realized he was beyond redemption?

Horus had pretty low loyalty and will power qualities. Also, there's nothing suggesting that he was a great creator like some of the other Primarches. I think he was the most capable Primarch in terms of Strategy and Tactics while we have nothing to go on other than Corax's word when it comes to raw power in a fight. It's probably safe to assume his great mind for tactics would have made him a formidable duelist when combined with the standard Primarch awesomeness so Corax's word can probably be trusted...But he wasn't better than every Primarch in everyway. I think Horus represents what the Emperor wanted from his Primarches the most though since he spent the most time with the Emp and was molded mostly by the Emp himself and not by the population of the planet he was scattered to like the others.

BrainDeleted wrote:Ignoring the suggestions that Russ and the Wolves were the ones responsible for disposing of the two missing Primarches, yes, there's no evidence to suggest that at all. Besides, I didn't say he did do it or that he's the best Primarch. I was just putting it out there as food for thought.

We need context. We have no idea how the two missing Primarchs died, if they did die, and we need to know about the specifics concerning them as well. For all we know both of these Primarchs were like pre-Chaos Lorgar. Which is to say a massive pussy.

Really good way to put it, also a good insight into why the two of them were best buds pre-heresy...In a sort of weird way.

Yeah, Fulgrim and Manus were alike in some ways, yet couldn't be more different. Both were perfectionists, but went about it in different ways. Fulgrim is the most feminine Primarch, while Manus is one of the most manly, they're foils, basically.

Until he was infused with the powers of Chaos. He was then an extremely capable psyker almost on par with the Emp himself. Didn't he kill a Custode/Space Marine/Ollanius Pius in the most painful way possible with but a glance during their fight and that's when the Big E realized he was beyond redemption?

Well yes but Horus by then was infused with the massed powers of the Chaos Gods. Of course he was strongest.

Horus had pretty low loyalty and will power qualities. Also, there's nothing suggesting that he was a great creator like some of the other Primarches. I think he was the most capable Primarch in terms of Strategy and Tactics while we have nothing to go on other than Corax's word when it comes to raw power in a fight. It's probably safe to assume his great mind for tactics would have made him a formidable duelist when combined with the standard Primarch awesomeness so Corax's word can probably be trusted...But he wasn't better than every Primarch in every single way at all.

I'm not sure I'd immediately say Horus had particularly low willpower. Real loyalty? Maybe, but honestly I don't think the Emperor really earned true loyalty. Sure he created them, but he didn't seem to trust them either.

Yeah, I'd say he's not as capable a smithy as Manus, Fulgrim, or Vulkan. Nor does he have the incredible technical knowledge of Perturabo, whose knowledge rivaled any Tech Priest apparently.

To an extent I agree. Oh sure, Corax tells us that Angron and Horus are the gak in martial combat, but really, show don't tell. Angron and Horus have only hype in that regard, as far as I can tell. He's probably strong, but we have yet to see actual evidence for it.

But you are right, Horus wasn't better than every Primarch in everything, just overall the most capable, in making war at least.

He isn't better in every single way, he's simply good in every single way, whilst the other excel at only a few fields and are average at the others. Angron will have fantastic martial capability and will be extremely physically strong, but will be a bad tactical thinker. Horus wont necessarily be better with weapons or physically stronger than Angron, but he will br good in both those fields, and will be a superior commander.

Void__Dragon wrote:We need context. We have no idea how the two missing Primarchs died, if they did die, and we need to know about the specifics concerning them as well. For all we know both of these Primarchs were like pre-Chaos Lorgar. Which is to say a massive pussy.

Yeah...Too bad we'll probably never get it. But I still think the mere suggestion buff Russ a few points. He's the crazy space viking the Emp basically uses as follows: Point in a direction, unleash, hope collateral damage isn't too bad...Or that he doesn't get completely side tracked and end up on a fool's errand.

Void__Dragon wrote:Yeah, Fulgrim and Manus were alike in some ways, yet couldn't be more different. Both were perfectionists, but went about it in different ways. Fulgrim is the most feminine Primarch, while Manus is one of the most manly, they're foils, basically.

Another reason why their friendship kind of creeps me out a bit. I really want a book to foil Fulgrim from the perspective of the Iron Hands. I'd imagine Ferrus would paint their fights in a much different fashion. Also it would be full of awesome Ferrus quotes because I feel like anything he says would be awesomely masculine and bamf.

Void__Dragon wrote:I'm not sure I'd immediately say Horus had particularly low willpower. Real loyalty? Maybe, but honestly I don't think the Emperor really earned true loyalty. Sure he created them, but he didn't seem to trust them either.

Yeah, I'd say he's not as capable a smithy as Manus, Fulgrim, or Vulkan. Nor does he have the incredible technical knowledge of Perturabo, whose knowledge rivaled any Tech Priest apparently.

To an extent I agree. Oh sure, Corax tells us that Angron and Horus are the gak in martial combat, but really, show don't tell. Angron and Horus have only hype in that regard, as far as I can tell. He's probably strong, but we have yet to see actual evidence for it.

But you are right, Horus wasn't better than every Primarch in everything, just overall the most capable, in making war at least.

Can't wait for the World Eaters' novel......

And I don't know, it's tough to see how they didn't owe the Emp loyalty. He gave them the most awesome toys in the Galaxy to play with as well as the coolest jobs ever. It's too easy to assume the worst about His mysterious ways. Personally, I think a lot of his secrecy was out of genuine concern for his little boys.

Russ > anything/body


/thread

DIDM wrote:Russ > anything/body


/thread

The Lion disagrees. Not /thread.

Void__Dragon wrote:I think that in general battles between Primarchs can't be thought of in A>B>C terms, and context should be considered.

For instance, Curze did beat the Lion, when the fight became a brawl. Using his sword against Curze's lightning claws though, the Lion wasn't just beating Curze, he was completely dominating him.

Also consider that when Curze took out Dorn, not only was Dorn taken down by a sneak attack IIRC, but Dorn wasn't armed or armoured, wearing robes and gak.

Similarly, Russ and the Lion were shown to basically be equals, when fighting bare-handed. So we can confidently say that Curze would be better than both in a brawl. But with weapons? As we saw with the Lion, no, and with Russ we can't really say.

Though, we can roughly rank them. For instance, Angron, Sanguinius, and Horus seem to be considered the best in martial combat, if Corax's word means anything. Whereas Magnus the Red, while also being physically strong and a capable fighter, bolsters that with immense psychic power and finesse.

But Ive gone off-topic. Yeah, Ferrus Manus is a manly man who is a man, not exactly stupid, but stubborn and completely headstrong. He also shared another trait with Fulgrim, perfectionism. But while Fulgrim was a sissy girl and couldn't handle criticism, Ferrus Manus viewed criticism as vital, if you point out the flaws, then you can work to improve upon them.

Just another note on why Ferrus is a boss.

Probably one of the best ways to describe above primarchs.
I can relate to Fulgrim, so after that, I think I actually have a better outlook on him. Sissy whiney bugger, who tried but couldn't stand the pressure. Sounds a lot better than sissy whiney bugger, who's also whiney.

Obviously whatever corax says is truth he's a raven right? They're some smart cookies.

Corax whooped Lorgar's arse, He was about to kill him, before Konrad intervened and Konrad didn't even have the stones to finish Corax. Corax is pretty mean.

Lorgar is a complete bum ferret.

Kurze, Sangy or Magnus

It could only be Magnus.

And reading 'a thousand sons' only reinforced it, stupid wolves......

Is Dorn the only one to die to run of the mill circumstances or were there more?

I got the feeling Dorn more or less committed suicide.

TheAngrySquig wrote:Is Dorn the only one to die to run of the mill circumstances or were there more?

The second Primarch tripped on a rock upon getting out of his pod and broke his neck. The eleventh drowned in a river.

iproxtaco wrote:

TheAngrySquig wrote:Is Dorn the only one to die to run of the mill circumstances or were there more?

The second Primarch tripped on a rock upon getting out of his pod and broke his neck. The eleventh drowned in a river.

I have this mental image of two whole legions standing there and the Senior Officer saying

"Well, I have some good news and some Bad news. Good news is we won't be changing the Legion's name, and the Bad news, well we won't be taking part in the Heresy. Sorry, it's very disappointing, but if we don't have a team captain we cannot take part. Their are only 20 places available, 18 are taken but you need a Primarch to be tournament Legal. I'm sorry I don't make the rules. Oh almost forgot we are due to be disbanded...."